View Full Version : 20 greatest middleweights ATG


Pastrano
05-18-2011, 04:14 PM
1. Harry Greb
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Marvin Hagler
5. Marcel Cerdan
6. Dick Tiger
7. Joey Giardello
8. Jake LaMotta
9. Gene Fullmer
10. Nino Benvenuti
11. Tony Zale
12. Stanley Ketchel
13. Emile Griffith
14. Randy Turpin
15. Mike McCallum
16. Sumbu Kalambay
17. Bernard Hopkins
18. Ceferino Garcia
19. Rodrigo Valdez
20. Rocky Graziano

NChristo
05-18-2011, 04:22 PM
No Freddie Steele, Eddie Booker, Charley Burley, Fitzsimmons or Langford (depends on which weight you rank him) ?.

Props on making a list though, mostly solid names but I'd change a few around.

Pastrano
05-18-2011, 04:32 PM
No Freddie Steele, Eddie Booker, Charley Burley, Fitzsimmons or Langford (depends on which weight you rank him) ?.

Props on making a list though, mostly solid names but I'd change a few around.

Thanks. I may make a couple modifications later, only when it comes to placings. Fitzsimmons I reckon made more noise as a lhw and hw and Langford...not sure. He also was more famous as a hw I think.

joseph5620
05-18-2011, 04:36 PM
1. Harry Greb
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Jake LaMotta
5. Joey Giardello
6. Dick Tiger
7. Marcel Cerdan
8. Marvin Hagler
9. Gene Fullmer
10. Nino Benvenuti
11. Emile Griffith
12. Stanley Ketchel
13. Randy Turpin
14. Bernard Hopkins
15. Mike McCallum
16. Sumbu Kalambay
17. Rodrigo Valdez
18. Marcel Thil
19. Ceferino Garcia
20. Carmen Basilio




Rating those four fighters over Hagler is absurd to say the least. I wouldn't rate Robinson at middleweight higher than Hagler either.

Pastrano
05-18-2011, 04:39 PM
Rating those four fighters over Hagler is absurd to say the least. I wouldn't rate Robinson at middleweight higher than Hagler either.

Fine, make your own list then. I say all those guys could and would beat Hagler.

Ziggy Stardust
05-18-2011, 04:56 PM
01. Ray Robinson
02. Bob Fitzsimmons
03. Sam Langford
04. Marvin Hagler
05. Stanley Ketchel
06. Bernard Hopkins
07. Charley Burley
08. Harry Greb
09. Jake LaMotta
10. Carlos Monzon
11. Tony Zale
12. Panama Joe Gans
13. Marcel Cerdan
14. Les Darcy
15. Mike Gibbons
16. Holman Williams
17. Mickey Walker
18. James Toney
19. Mike McCallum
20. Tommy Burns

Ziggy Stardust
05-18-2011, 04:56 PM
Rating those four fighters over Hagler is absurd to say the least. I wouldn't rate Robinson at middleweight higher than Hagler either.

He has a serious dislike of Hagler.

Barnburner
05-18-2011, 05:14 PM
He has a serious dislike of Hagler.
I think it's more of a serious love McCallum.

Nice to see the inclusion of Darcy, some say he was better than Stanley Ketchel.

House of Stone
05-18-2011, 06:12 PM
Its an ok list hagler is a bit low imo and I'm probably biased cause I'm a huge fan of Jones jnr ... and I guess he wasn't champ at the weight for that long .... but I think the middleweight version of Roy beats a hell of a lot of guys on that list.

The_Demon
05-18-2011, 06:19 PM
Decent list,but too have Hagler outside of the top 5 is simply wrong,but i understand you dont like him

Barnburner
05-18-2011, 07:08 PM
Decent list,but too have Hagler outside of the top 5 is simply wrong,but i understand you dont like him
That shouldn't make a difference, I hate Ali but, have him No 1 Heavyweight. I'm not going to let it sway my rankings.

SBleeder
05-18-2011, 09:20 PM
01. Ray Robinson
02. Bob Fitzsimmons
03. Sam Langford
04. Marvin Hagler
05. Stanley Ketchel
06. Bernard Hopkins
07. Charley Burley
08. Harry Greb
09. Jake LaMotta
10. Carlos Monzon
11. Tony Zale
12. Panama Joe Gans
13. Marcel Cerdan
14. Les Darcy
15. Mike Gibbons
16. Holman Williams
17. Mickey Walker
18. James Toney
19. Mike McCallum
20. Tommy Burns

Can you explain why Greb is only eighth?

Ziggy Stardust
05-18-2011, 09:37 PM
Can you explain why Greb is only eighth?

Because I judge Robinson, Fitzsimmons, Langford, Hagler, Ketchel, Hopkins, and Burley to be better fighters.

Poet

Mannie Phresh
05-18-2011, 09:46 PM
i like the list.

Walt Liquor
05-18-2011, 10:15 PM
01. Ray Robinson
02. Bob Fitzsimmons
03. Sam Langford
04. Marvin Hagler
05. Stanley Ketchel
06. Bernard Hopkins
07. Charley Burley
08. Harry Greb
09. Jake LaMotta
10. Carlos Monzon
11. Tony Zale
12. Panama Joe Gans
13. Marcel Cerdan
14. Les Darcy
15. Mike Gibbons
16. Holman Williams
17. Mickey Walker
18. James Toney
19. Mike McCallum
20. Tommy Burns


i like this list a lot better (looking at top 10 only) with perhaps monzon being a little low

Scott9945
05-18-2011, 10:46 PM
He has a serious dislike of Hagler.

Typical Fanboy behavior. Everything is one extreme or another. I saw Dick Tiger fight, and Hagler would have taken him apart.

Pastrano
05-19-2011, 01:29 PM
Typical Fanboy behavior. Everything is one extreme or another. I saw Dick Tiger fight, and Hagler would have taken him apart.

Don't force your idiocy on others. Tiger beat a naturally bigger Jose Torres twice, a light heavyweight! He was 5'8 yet fought and reigned as a lhw champion, in addition to being a mw champ previously. He outboxed Benvenuti and you think Hagler would take him apart.

I updated my list btw, had to rate Hagler higher because of his titles. So now he's at nr.4. Everybody happy-pappy?!:p

Scott9945
05-19-2011, 07:24 PM
Don't force your idiocy on others. Tiger beat a naturally bigger Jose Torres twice, a light heavyweight! He was 5'8 yet fought and reigned as a lhw champion, in addition to being a mw champ previously. He outboxed Benvenuti and you think Hagler would take him apart.

I updated my list btw, had to rate Hagler higher because of his titles. So now he's at nr.4. Everybody happy-pappy?!:p

So you moved Hagler up four slots just because others second guessed you on it. Because you now realized he held titles? Yeah, you have a lot of credibility. :lol1:

Pastrano
07-05-2011, 09:50 AM
So you moved Hagler up four slots just because others second guessed you on it. Because you now realized he held titles? Yeah, you have a lot of credibility. :lol1:

No jabroni, it was also because he has a high number of title defenses. One of the highest among mw's...only Monzon and Borenard have more I believe.

JAB5239
07-05-2011, 10:12 AM
No jabroni, it was also because he has a high number of title defenses. One of the highest among mw's...only Monzon and Borenard have more I believe.

And he had those same number of defenses when you initially compiled your list. :nono:

IronDanHamza
07-05-2011, 10:30 AM
No jabroni, it was also because he has a high number of title defenses. One of the highest among mw's...only Monzon and Borenard have more I believe.

:lol1: :lol1:

Really? Jabroni?

:lol1:

Pastrano
07-05-2011, 10:31 AM
And he had those same number of defenses when you initially compiled your list. :nono:

Get off my back man.:nonono:

Pastrano
07-05-2011, 10:32 AM
:lol1: :lol1:

Really? Jabroni?

:lol1:

Yes, you recognised yourself in the name too I reckon.:D

IronDanHamza
07-05-2011, 10:34 AM
Yes, you recognised yourself in the name too I reckon.:D

Nah, that one stays with the Oscar nuthuggers :fing02:

JAB5239
07-05-2011, 10:46 AM
Get off my back man.:nonono:

Why, am I wrong? :dunno:

Scott9945
07-05-2011, 10:52 AM
No jabroni, it was also because he has a high number of title defenses. One of the highest among mw's...only Monzon and Borenard have more I believe.

Wow, it only took you like two months to respond to that. :lol1:

But keep plugging away, Boxrec Fanboy. If you keep studying fighter's records I'm sure you'll become an expert eventually. I don't think it will help your alarming immaturity though. :nonono:

Pastrano
07-05-2011, 03:25 PM
Wow, it only took you like two months to respond to that. :lol1:

But keep plugging away, Boxrec Fanboy. If you keep studying fighter's records I'm sure you'll become an expert eventually. I don't think it will help your alarming immaturity though. :nonono:

Don't let it surprise you, I never generally bother answering YOUR posts right away.:D

Scott9945
07-05-2011, 04:17 PM
Don't let it surprise you, I never generally bother answering YOUR posts right away.:D

Of course not. You know you will be schooled. Again.

Pastrano
07-06-2011, 06:05 AM
Of course not. You know you will be schooled. Again.

:boxing: Just try your luck, punk!:D

McGoorty
07-23-2011, 11:25 AM
1. Harry Greb
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Marvin Hagler
5. Joey Giardello
6. Dick Tiger
7. Marcel Cerdan
8. Jake LaMotta
9. Gene Fullmer
10. Nino Benvenuti
11. Emile Griffith
12. Stanley Ketchel
13. Randy Turpin
14. Bernard Hopkins
15. Mike McCallum
16. Sumbu Kalambay
17. Rodrigo Valdez
18. Marcel Thil
19. Ceferino Garcia
20. Tony Zale

ZALE better than GARCIA, THIL, VALDEZ, KALAMBAY, McCALLUM, TURPIN, BENVENUTI and GIARDELLO,...... DARCY better than GARCIA, THIL. VALDEZ, KALAMBAY, McCALLUM, BENVENUTI, FULLMER, TIGER, GIARDELLO, and EVEN to GRIFFITH, KETCHEL, And Maybe more,....... STEELE would kayo 5 or 6 there and BASILIO and SANDS And FLOWERS, no BURLEY, H. WILLIAMS. :boxing: And ROY JONES is supposed to be WORSE THAN SUMBU KALAMBAY?????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????........... . I just can;t see THIL, KALAMBAY, McCALLUM, TURPIN, VALDEZ in that 20. No way anyone list them in perfect numeral order to make everyone happy. I put SRR in at TOP spot as my dead set cert.:chomp:

McGoorty
07-23-2011, 11:30 AM
:boxing: Just try your luck, punk!:D
Hey Pastrano, is there any chance that you can remove that thing covering her whatzit....................... She's better looking than Greb an Zale.

McGoorty
07-23-2011, 11:40 AM
i like this list a lot better (looking at top 10 only) with perhaps monzon being a little low
I don't mind it either as long as a list of MW's includes the awesome Darcy among the cream, he used to be on all MW top 10's just a few short years ago, I don't care too much about the order, we all use our own criteria. What a tournament this 20 would provide, ouch.

IronDanHamza
07-23-2011, 11:44 AM
I don't mind it either as long as a list of MW's includes the awesome Darcy among the cream, he used to be on all MW top 10's just a few short years ago, I don't care too much about the order, we all use our own criteria. What a tournament this 20 would provide, ouch.

Big fan of Les Darcy, eh?

Very underrated and underappreciated fighter this day and age.

Pastrano
07-23-2011, 11:56 AM
Hey Pastrano, is there any chance that you can remove that thing covering her whatzit....................... She's better looking than Greb an Zale.

Lol, why should I remove it?

JAB5239
07-23-2011, 02:51 PM
Lol, why should I remove it?

He wants to see her ass. So do I.

Pastrano
07-23-2011, 03:54 PM
He wants to see her ass. So do I.

Sorry, can't do nuthin about it. Its the only pic I have. You get enuff glimpse to see that her azz is fabulous!:D

Marchegiano
07-24-2011, 01:07 AM
Jem Mace, and Nonpareil deserve placement. Could have killed a few of them fools on that list. Killed 'em dead.

Sugar Sting Ray
07-24-2011, 01:36 AM
Robinson
Greb
Monzon
Walker
Ketchel
Jones jr.
Hagler
Fitzimons
LaMotta
Zale

JAB5239
07-24-2011, 03:47 AM
Robinson
Greb
Monzon
Walker
Ketchel
Jones jr.
Hagler
Fitzimons
LaMotta
Zale

With all due respect, how on God's green earth can Jones be an all time top 10 middleweight?

Marchegiano
07-24-2011, 08:40 AM
And how the **** is Bob not in the top 5.

McGoorty
07-24-2011, 11:14 AM
Big fan of Les Darcy, eh?

Very underrated and underappreciated fighter this day and age.
Totally, he is so underated, he beat everybody he faced and he was thought of in the 20's 30's and 40's as one of the greatest in history, when Les was just 16 the great Larry Foley said that Darcy could become the best he'd ever seen and when Les was 19 Foley said that no one will beat the kid. Foley was trained by none other than JEM MACE and Larry taught Fitzsimmons, Jackson and Griffo and had seen everybody. I just don't understand modern thinking, it's not as if there's no film of him, there's even a Complete fight with George Chip so why is he treated like a Tom Cribb or Griffo. As I said before about Foley he knew Griffo better than anybody today but I see countless ATG lists with Griffo there but no Darcy, I saw a list written in the 50's from the U.s. that had Darcy as the 3rd best MW of all time and around the 15 mark of the gloved era in any weight but that WAS just one experts opinion. so way too underated, it is probably because fight film making became good quality after WW2, but the film of the Chip fight is very watchable so I still don't get it. My favorite old timer for sure, a 18 year old who beat the cream of the MW's and never knocked down in 50 fights, did you know that he fought for the Australian Welterweight Title when just 16 ? he was outpointed on the Judges cards but Beat the champ a short few months later at MW, he also beat Dave DUPENA, Sam Langford's protoge at 16 too, it was completely one sided despite Sam trying to frighten Darcy before the fight ( Darcy just replied that he wanted to have somr sparring sessions, the cheeky little bugger ). Les never showed ****iness, he was a quiet young fella, if he said that to Langford it seems that he was supremely confident in himself. I have a photo of his childhood home, it is no better than the place that Muddy Waters was born in but where else do you expect a champion to come from.