View Full Version : Marcel Cerdan


Pastrano
05-17-2011, 03:21 PM
Was he the greatest European boxer ever? He had all the tools, a complete package and 2 of his 4 losses were on dq, one was on points and was avenged (just a bad night really) and the last one was to LaMotta, where he injured his shoulder after falling down after a clinch. Had he not died, I believe he would defeat LaMotta soundly in the rematch and go on to fight SRR. THAT would be something, wouldn't it?

Marcel was an outstanding boxer in every sense and his power was amazing. I think he was one of the hardest punchers in the mw division ever. His fight with Zale was a classic, great ko too.

RubenSonny
05-17-2011, 04:41 PM
Excellent fighter and the Zale KO is sick but its clear that the distinction of greatest European fighter belongs to Bob Fitzsimmons.

IronDanHamza
05-17-2011, 05:18 PM
One of the greatest fighters to come out of Europe for sure.

Great fighter.

physiker
05-17-2011, 06:24 PM
I was just thinking this the other day.
Maybe not just great Euro fighter, but ATG great MW boxer period.

Wasn't his record 113-4?

Does anyone have any film of the fight v LaMotta?I read that the "clinch" may have been LaMotta throwing him to the canvas.

But think about it. If his shoulder was dislocated in rd 1, he fought for what another 9 rds.

And against the raging bull.
Amazing!

The_Demon
05-17-2011, 07:10 PM
The 3rd greatest fighter too come out of Europe in my opinion,by quite a way too

Pastrano
05-17-2011, 07:11 PM
I was just thinking this the other day.
Maybe not just great Euro fighter, but ATG great MW boxer period.

Wasn't his record 113-4?

Does anyone have any film of the fight v LaMotta?I read that the "clinch" may have been LaMotta throwing him to the canvas.

But think about it. If his shoulder was dislocated in rd 1, he fought for what another 9 rds.

And against the raging bull.
Amazing!
113-4, yes. With 66 kos, which is pretty amazing for a boxer of that time. Old timers didn't really like to punch hard or they had such a style that didn't produce too many knockouts, but this guy was a cracker.:boxing:

RubenSonny
05-17-2011, 07:17 PM
113-4, yes. With 66 kos, which is pretty amazing for a boxer of that time. Old timers didn't really like to punch hard or they had such a style that didn't produce too many knockouts, but this guy was a cracker.:boxing:

looooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Pastrano
05-17-2011, 07:34 PM
looooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Ok, so I formulated myself badly. I meant that oldtime, mostly Euro but also American, boxers had a technical, rather passive style.

Wild Blue Yonda
05-17-2011, 09:21 PM
I wouldn't call him Europe's best ever, but he is certainly in the elite category. I would call him the best Frenchman, however.

Terry A
05-17-2011, 09:30 PM
Was he the greatest European boxer ever?

......his power was amazing. I think he was one of the hardest punchers in the mw division ever.

Glad to see Cerdan is getting some love & respect as a great fighter. I agree, he was one of Europe's best ever.

The part I never really associated Cerdan with is him being "one of the hardest punchers in the mw division ever". When I think of Marcel Cerdan, I think of 3 things..1. The crash that killed him. 2. A very durable fighter. 3. Generally under-rated.

One of the hardest hitting 160lbers ever? Marcel Cerdan had a life time KO % of 56.52%, or 65 KOs in 115 fights.

Here's some other middleweight KO percentages....

Randy Turpin 60%
Rocky Graziano 62.65%
Carlos Monzon 59%
Stanley Ketchel 75%
Tommy Hearns 71.64%
Marvin Hagler 77.61%

These guys were the hardest hitters I could find! I was surprised to find out that the life-time KO % of most of the other notable 160 lbers in history were even LOWER. (Sugar Ray Robinson was a 54% KO ratio) So you are right, Cerdan is also one of the hardest hitters ever at 160!

I should have known that, since I fancy myself a boxing historian! But I'm better prepared now for threads & debates down the road! :)

RubenSonny
05-17-2011, 10:33 PM
Glad to see Cerdan is getting some love & respect as a great fighter. I agree, he was one of Europe's best ever.

The part I never really associated Cerdan with is him being "one of the hardest punchers in the mw division ever". When I think of Marcel Cerdan, I think of 3 things..1. The crash that killed him. 2. A very durable fighter. 3. Generally under-rated.

One of the hardest hitting 160lbers ever? Marcel Cerdan had a life time KO % of 56.52%, or 65 KOs in 115 fights.

Here's some other middleweight KO percentages....

Randy Turpin 60%
Rocky Graziano 62.65%
Carlos Monzon 59%
Stanley Ketchel 75%
Tommy Hearns 71.64%
Marvin Hagler 77.61%

These guys were the hardest hitters I could find! I was surprised to find out that the life-time KO % of most of the other notable 160 lbers in history were even LOWER. (Sugar Ray Robinson was a 54% KO ratio) So you are right, Cerdan is also one of the hardest hitters ever at 160!

I should have known that, since I fancy myself a boxing historian! But I'm better prepared now for threads & debates down the road! :)

None of the percentages indicate who the harder punchers are, everyone knows that KO percentages don't mean much.

kerw00d
05-17-2011, 10:42 PM
No he wasnt even close to best non american fighter. He is a legend though best from France.

If you want a good look at him this site has a Cerdan Career Set
suckerpunchboxing (dot) webs (dot) com

physiker
05-18-2011, 01:57 AM
I'd like to see SRR's KO % as a WW!

Ziggy Stardust
05-18-2011, 02:18 AM
None of the percentages indicate who the harder punchers are, everyone knows that KO percentages don't mean much.

Ali had a pretty high KO% in his prime. Doesn't mean he was a big puncher though: Most of those KOs were from cuts or the ref ending the carnage. KO% includes ALL stoppages no matter what kind they are.....including stool quits like the Klits rack up.

Poet

Barn
05-18-2011, 05:30 AM
Exactly, anyone knows on that list would see Hearns and Ketchel are a league above Hagler in the power standings conflicting these percentages.

Pastrano
05-18-2011, 11:33 AM
Glad to see Cerdan is getting some love & respect as a great fighter. I agree, he was one of Europe's best ever.

The part I never really associated Cerdan with is him being "one of the hardest punchers in the mw division ever". When I think of Marcel Cerdan, I think of 3 things..1. The crash that killed him. 2. A very durable fighter. 3. Generally under-rated.

One of the hardest hitting 160lbers ever? Marcel Cerdan had a life time KO % of 56.52%, or 65 KOs in 115 fights.

Here's some other middleweight KO percentages....

Randy Turpin 60%
Rocky Graziano 62.65%
Carlos Monzon 59%
Stanley Ketchel 75%
Tommy Hearns 71.64%
Marvin Hagler 77.61%

These guys were the hardest hitters I could find! I was surprised to find out that the life-time KO % of most of the other notable 160 lbers in history were even LOWER. (Sugar Ray Robinson was a 54% KO ratio) So you are right, Cerdan is also one of the hardest hitters ever at 160!

I should have known that, since I fancy myself a boxing historian! But I'm better prepared now for threads & debates down the road! :)

You can't consider Tommy Hearns a middleweight. He only had 3 fights at that weight and lost 2 of them. He was something extraordinary, his right hand is one of the greatest weapons in boxing ever.:notworthy

Terry A
05-18-2011, 12:59 PM
You can't consider Tommy Hearns a middleweight. He only had 3 fights at that weight and lost 2 of them. He was something extraordinary, his right hand is one of the greatest weapons in boxing ever.:notworthy

I was trying to pay you a compliment.

I do consider TH a middleweight because he's in the record books as having been the WBC Middleweight Champion of the world. As well as an NABF Middleweight champ.

By the way, Hearns had 8 fights as a middleweight, not 3.

Pastrano
05-18-2011, 01:28 PM
I was trying to pay you a compliment.

I do consider TH a middleweight because he's in the record books as having been the WBC Middleweight Champion of the world. As well as an NABF Middleweight champ.

By the way, Hearns had 8 fights as a middleweight, not 3.

Ok, fair enuff. Thanks for that info and for the compliment.:D He still can't be considered a TRUE mw, not like Hagler, Monzon or those other guys.

Terry A
05-18-2011, 01:45 PM
You can't consider Tommy Hearns a middleweight. He only had 3 fights at that weight and lost 2 of them. He was something extraordinary, his right hand is one of the greatest weapons in boxing ever.:notworthy

Ok, fair enuff. Thanks for that info and for the compliment.:D He still can't be considered a TRUE mw, not like Hagler, Monzon or those other guys.

And, to be fair to you also, you're also right. When Hearns comes to mind, I think of him more as a welterweight or jr. middleweight before I consider him a middleweight.

Pastrano
05-18-2011, 02:44 PM
And, to be fair to you also, you're also right. When Hearns comes to mind, I think of him more as a welterweight or jr. middleweight before I consider him a middleweight.

Glad we agree buddy.:beerchug:

Terry A
05-18-2011, 03:06 PM
Glad we agree buddy.:beerchug:

Yes sir! Me too.

But when any of us disagree with one another on here, let's remember that if all of us agreed on everything, there'd be nothing much to talk about! I like to discuss or debate, but all you guys here are, to me, my friends. I think the guys with the best knowledge of boxing & fighters hang out here in History & in Fantasy Fights. I won't ever be disrespectful of anyone here.

Pastrano
05-18-2011, 04:57 PM
Yes sir! Me too.

But when any of us disagree with one another on here, let's remember that if all of us agreed on everything, there'd be nothing much to talk about! I like to discuss or debate, but all you guys here are, to me, my friends. I think the guys with the best knowledge of boxing & fighters hang out here in History & in Fantasy Fights. I won't ever be disrespectful of anyone here.

Lol, thats true. :lol1: I've seen some guys with real good knowledge and they don't dismiss fighters they don't especially like, like Obama does.:nonono:

joseph5620
05-18-2011, 05:40 PM
Excellent fighter and the Zale KO is sick but its clear that the distinction of greatest European fighter belongs to Bob Fitzsimmons.

















Definitely.

Pastrano
05-18-2011, 06:31 PM
Definitely.

Not even close! All Fitzsimmons did was beat Corbett, he was destroyed already in the first defense by Jeffries. I rate both Cerdan and Benvenuti above him.

RubenSonny
05-18-2011, 06:47 PM
Not even close! All Fitzsimmons did was beat Corbett, he was destroyed already in the first defense by Jeffries. I rate both Cerdan and Benvenuti above him.

Your actually taking it too far now...He has one of the most insane resumes of all-time, also one of the hardest hitting punchers of all-time.

Amongst other things, heres afew things he did:

Smashing Philly Jack a the age of 41.

Smashing HW contenders while weighing in as MW or a very smal LHW.

Smashing Dempsey (nonpareil) for the MW title, Corbett for the HW title, and outpointing Gardner for LHW title.

Pastrano
05-19-2011, 01:23 PM
Your actually taking it too far now...He has one of the most insane resumes of all-time, also one of the hardest hitting punchers of all-time.

Amongst other things, heres afew things he did:

Smashing Philly Jack a the age of 41.

Smashing HW contenders while weighing in as MW or a very smal LHW.

Smashing Dempsey (nonpareil) for the MW title, Corbett for the HW title, and outpointing Gardner for LHW title.
Fine, but he didn't achieve as much as a mw as hw! Thats the bottom line, we're not rating these guys p4p, but after their achievements at 160!

Ziggy Stardust
05-19-2011, 01:33 PM
Fine, but he didn't achieve as much as a mw as hw! Thats the bottom line, we're not rating these guys p4p, but after their achievements at 160!

Speak for yourself. I rate by ability with resume being only one of many factors.

Poet

RubenSonny
05-19-2011, 01:57 PM
Fine, but he didn't achieve as much as a mw as hw! Thats the bottom line, we're not rating these guys p4p, but after their achievements at 160!

Thats bull**** because you mention his fight against Johnson, you just tried to **** on a legend and just realised how truly stupid it was. Rating Cerdan and Benvenuti above him for all-time Euro is idiotic.

Pastrano
05-19-2011, 03:09 PM
Thats bull**** because you mention his fight against Johnson, you just tried to **** on a legend and just realised how truly stupid it was. Rating Cerdan and Benvenuti above him for all-time Euro is idiotic.

Johnson who?! I mentioned his fight with JEFFRIES, dingleberry.:rolleyes: He was never a natural hw to be fair to him, more a light hw.

RubenSonny
05-19-2011, 06:25 PM
Johnson who?! I mentioned his fight with JEFFRIES, dingleberry.:rolleyes: He was never a natural hw to be fair to him, more a light hw.

Oh yeah mistake still my point stands and you won't have an answer for that.

McGoorty
11-01-2012, 06:43 AM
Not even close! All Fitzsimmons did was beat Corbett, he was destroyed already in the first defense by Jeffries. I rate both Cerdan and Benvenuti above him.
Sorry buddy but that was far too simplistic.. Fitz was also a MW and LHW champion, his victories over MW's rank very high indeed, I dont know if he was as skilled as Cerdan was but certainly tougher and a massive legacy. As for Benvenuti I cant put Nino that high, one thing I MUST point out though guys, please count the total amount of Fitzsimmons fights on European soil and you get to the actual truth of the matter.. Fitz lived in New Zealand, was good with his fists so decides to go to one of the best boxing cities in the world that time... Sydney, New South Wales where he learned the Mace school style from Larry Foley ( who was never defeated inside a boxing ring in a 4 decade long career)...... there Bob had lots of tough fights until he was considered among the two best fighters in Australia (Peter Jackson was the other)...................... .................................................. Then Bob decided to try his luck in America the rest is history.... as far as I know Bob had never had a single fight on European soil... Bob Fitzsimmons was an Antipodean from the Antipodes (the best part of planet earth).

McGoorty
11-01-2012, 06:54 AM
Your actually taking it too far now...He has one of the most insane resumes of all-time, also one of the hardest hitting punchers of all-time.

Amongst other things, heres afew things he did:

Smashing Philly Jack a the age of 41.

Smashing HW contenders while weighing in as MW or a very smal LHW.

Smashing Dempsey (nonpareil) for the MW title, Corbett for the HW title, and outpointing Gardner for LHW title.
Basically you got it, and I can say that some of his Aussie opponents were good fighters, better than whats around now, I think Geale is good but Bob would have hammered him and so may quite a few others, the standard dowunder in the old days was high and going to America was very expensive and dangerous massively long journey so most never made the trip.... in the end it was an Australian who finished Bob as a fighter with a horrible horrible beating when he was way too old by Bill Lang............. Cerdan is one of the great IF's of boxing history as his life was cut short.

Welsh Jon
11-03-2012, 04:30 PM
It seems a lot of people question whether Bob Fitzsimmons is European but few ask the same questions of Marcel Cerdan. Cerdan was Algerian. He spent his early career fighting in North Africa. Cerdan should surely be considered one of the greats of African boxing not European.

Isaac Hunt
11-03-2012, 05:41 PM
It seems a lot of people question whether Bob Fitzsimmons is European but few ask the same questions of Marcel Cerdan. Cerdan was Algerian. He spent his early career fighting in North Africa. Cerdan should surely be considered one of the greats of African boxing not European.

Good point. Did Cerdan have French parents? I know he was born in Algeria but were his parents Algerian?

D.Y. Lawrence
11-05-2012, 08:39 AM
Good point. Did Cerdan have French parents? I know he was born in Algeria but were his parents Algerian?

Cerdan's dad was from Rousillon, which is a region located in the South-East of France that also comprises lands in present North-East of Spain, Catalonia. His mum is also French of Spanish extraction.

See Nicola's Cerdan site (Marcel's grandson): marcelcerdanheritage.com/5.aspx


Cerdan was born in Algeria but his family actually moved to Casablanca, Morocco, when he was only six--hence his nickname the "The Moroccan Bomber". Both Algeria and Morocco were French colonies back then, and Marcel Cerdan was a pied-noir.

D-MiZe
11-05-2012, 08:52 AM
Great, underrated fighter.

But nowhere near the best to come out of Europe.

IronDanHamza
11-05-2012, 01:22 PM
Great, underrated fighter.

But nowhere near the best to come out of Europe.

No where near?

How many would you rank ahead of him?

Welsh Jon
11-05-2012, 05:36 PM
Cerdan's dad was from Rousillon, which is a region located in the South-East of France that also comprises lands in present North-East of Spain, Catalonia. His mum is also French of Spanish extraction.

See Nicola's Cerdan site (Marcel's grandson): marcelcerdanheritage.com/5.aspx


Cerdan was born in Algeria but his family actually moved to Casablanca, Morocco, when he was only six--hence his nickname the "The Moroccan Bomber". Both Algeria and Morocco were French colonies back then, and Marcel Cerdan was a pied-noir.

Algeria and Morocco were certainly French colonies, but they were not in Europe. I am not comfortable with a man who was North African born and raised being described as one of the great European boxers.

Chalama123
11-09-2012, 11:39 PM
How would you rank these guys in the list below based on overall boxing legacy?