View Full Version : Top 10 fighters of the last 21 years...


$BloodyNate$
05-16-2011, 06:51 PM
Sorry but 1991 to 2011 seems kinda weird to me so I wanted to start on an even year 1990 :weed5:

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. James Toney
4. Lennox Lewis
5. Erik Morales
6. Manny Pac(could be surpassed by Hopkins IMO if he doesn't fight May and B-Hop beats Pascal & Dawson)
7. Bernard Hopkins
8. Marco Barrera
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Juan Manuel Marquez
[EDITED]

I find it hard to rank Lewis/Tyson/Holyfield because I always switch them up depending upon the question. I put Lewis in front of them this time because both Tyson & Evander put in mad work in the late 80's but had inconsistent 90's. I feel like Evander doesn't get near enough credit he deserves though when it comes to all time heavyweight ranking and always found it hard to rank Tyson. Thats kind of why I put Hopkins, Barrera, Morales, and Pac in front of them because of the inconsistency. Those 4 I just mentioned I feel could get flip flopped around a lot. I like my top 3 though.

I don't know it was a hard list that I came up with rushed in like 5 minutes because I just started thinking of the topic and probably didn't think of it all the way through. So don't hate too much hahah I do feel like I might have missed somebody HUGE lmao but tell me what you think and who are yours.

*- Also would like to add I have Pac behind Morales & Barrera because Morales was pretty much almost past it in the 1st fight when he won, and then was completely done for the 2nd fights. Also the Mayweather fight no happening really hurts him like Dempsey not fighting Greb, or Johnson not rematching Langford it just puts a big black mark on your resume for not fighting the best fighter out there besides yourself. I feel like if Barrera & Morales were in that position Mayweather would have already done been fought right now.

IronDanHamza
05-16-2011, 08:10 PM
What exactly did Mike Tyson do between 1990-2010 to consider that position? The vast majority of his best wins and prime was in the 1980's.

No Floyd Mayweather Jr in the Top 10 of the past 20 years? Why not?

Manny Pacquaio obviously needs to be higher.

The names are good but the order is all wrong IMO.

Big Op
05-16-2011, 08:17 PM
how do you barrera up there and leave jmm out

Wild Blue Yonda
05-16-2011, 08:34 PM
You say you have Pacquiao behind Barrera & Morales because the latter was, "pretty well past-it." What's the explanation for Barrera being above Pacquiao? Head-to-head & career accolades, I have Pacquiao smoking him.

Speaking of smoking, Tyson in the top-10, for his services between 1990-2010? He would struggle to make my top-100.

$BloodyNate$
05-16-2011, 09:46 PM
First off, where's ya'lls list then?

What exactly did Mike Tyson do between 1990-2010 to consider that position? The vast majority of his best wins and prime was in the 1980's.

No Floyd Mayweather Jr in the Top 10 of the past 20 years? Why not?

Manny Pacquaio obviously needs to be higher.

The names are good but the order is all wrong IMO.

Honestly Tyson was just up there for the hell of it haha thought I'd get ***** if I didn't place but turns out the opposite haha Liike I said I made this ***** in like 5mins, it was a quick impulsive thread.

Honestly Mayweather hurts his own legacy. He's easily top 5 the most talented but he don't do ***** with it. He ducked Pac(last two years and still going), Margarito(08-09), and Cotto(after the Oscar fight). Because of his "retirements". Rather fight small Hatton and small Marquez then the best at his weight class. The past few years the best welterweights have been Margarito, Cotto, Pac, and Mosley. How the **** does he only fight Mosley yet Pac fought them all? His resume below welterweight is beautiful and all but his "retirements" and lack of activity not to mention not fighting those fighters at their best.

I refuse to put Manny over Morales, but I can see him being put over Barrera because that is his best win EVER. PERIOD.

how the **** do you barrera up there and leave jmm out

you're obviosly blown

How come everywhere I post your always hating? Is it because in NSB I hyped up a Puerto Rican? haha I don't give a **** about that feud I thought he was an exciting young prospect. If you even knew me as a poster before that thread and knew my old sigs Juan Manuel Marquez is easily one of the favorite fighters today only behind probably Hopkins.

You say you have Pacquiao behind Barrera & Morales because the latter was, "pretty well past-it." What's the explanation for Barrera being above Pacquiao? Head-to-head & career accolades, I have Pacquiao smoking him.

Speaking of smoking, Tyson in the top-10, for his services between 1990-2010? He would struggle to make my top-100.

I actually am kind of ashamed in myself for not mentioning Marquez since he is one of my all time favorite fighters.

Tyson out, Marquez in. Edited with more thought into it.

Big Op
05-16-2011, 09:59 PM
How come everywhere I post your always hating? Is it because in NSB I hyped up a Puerto Rican? haha I don't give a **** about that feud I thought he was an exciting young prospect. If you even knew me as a poster before that thread and knew my old sigs Juan Manuel Marquez is easily one of the favorite fighters today only behind probably Hopkins.



I actually am kind of ashamed in myself for not mentioning Marquez since he is one of my all time favorite fighters.

Tyson out, Marquez in. Edited with more thought into it.

i know who you are as a poster and i know he is one of your favorite fighters right now that's why i asked you why you have barrera up there instead of
JMM.and i'm not hating...but yeah a lot of people are gonna disagree with you on that list.but as an opinion of yours i respect it

IronDanHamza
05-16-2011, 10:22 PM
Honestly Tyson was just up there for the hell of it haha thought I'd get ***** if I didn't place but turns out the opposite haha Liike I said I made this ***** in like 5mins, it was a quick impulsive thread.

It's cool. It happens.

Honestly Mayweather hurts his own legacy. He's easily top 5 the most talented but he don't do ***** with it. He ducked Pac(last two years and still going), Margarito(08-09), and Cotto(after the Oscar fight). Because of his "retirements". Rather fight small Hatton and small Marquez then the best at his weight class. The past few years the best welterweights have been Margarito, Cotto, Pac, and Mosley. How the **** does he only fight Mosley yet Pac fought them all? His resume below welterweight is beautiful and all but his "retirements" and lack of activity not to mention not fighting those fighters at their best.

I think saying "he didn't do sh*t with it" is a slightly brash statement there.

I think we should consider that cleaned out the Jr Lightweight division, moved up to Lightweight and beat the best fighter at 135 twice. His stay at 140, 147 and 154 isn't amazing but let's not forget across those 3 weight classes he has beat 5 fighters that were ranked in the Top 5 in those weight classes.

Winning 4 Lineal Titles during this duration of time. Whilst being in the Top 10 P4P list every year since 1998-2008.

I find it pretty difficult to not rank him atleast in the Top 10 within the last 20 years.

Not going to address the ducking thing, it's neither here nor there. But I don't believe he ducked all of those fighters, at all. But again, it's neither here nor there.


I refuse to put Manny over Morales, but I can see him being put over Barrera because that is his best win EVER. PERIOD..

Why? It's quite clear that Pacquaio has the much better resume than both Erik Morales and Barrera.

SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 11:33 PM
LMAO at Pernell Whitaker being #1 that alone make your list a joke

1.Roy Jones Jr
2.Bernard Hopkins
3.Marco Antonio Barrera
4.Manny Pacquiao
5.Lennox Lewis
6.James Toney
7.Tito Trinidad
8.Rafeal Marquez
9.Floyd Mayweather
10.Erik Morales/Juan Manuel Marquez

Danm that was tough to do

jjbj2
05-17-2011, 12:14 AM
1). Manny Pacquiao - Proud el *******o of the BoxingScene forum.

2). Oscar De La Hoya - Guy made boxing popular to women. Latinas can't stop talking about Oscar back in the days especially about how good looking he was. He made me follow boxing when I was a teenager. He was the PPV King along with Mike Tyson.

3). Roy Jones Jr. - He continued the popularity of boxing within the black community. Undefeated and barely had a boring fight during his prime.

4). Prince Naseem Hamed - Guy tried to do something different in boxing especially with his theatrical entrance. He made boxing exciting before the fight even begins.

5). Mike Tyson - the Heavyweight champ who instilled fear and kept boxing in the newspapers. Guy was PPV King, so even I watched his fights.

6). Erik Morales - the man who challenged every tough fighter in his division. A true proud Mexican fighter. And I should put Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. here too. He was very popular during the 1990s then Oscar beat him - torch passed.

7). Tito Trinidad - gave Puerto Ricans in New York City in the 1990s something to brag about. I still hear them in my ears from subway to school - it was all about Tito Trinidad when it came to boxing. Posters of Trinidad vs De La Hoya were everywhere in New York City inside the subway station, the bus, and billboards.

8). Arturo Gatti/Mikey Ward - these two fought so hard that people still talk about them especially within the Caucasian boxing fan communities.

9). Sugar Shane Mosley - became a certified boxing celebrity when he beat Oscar De La Hoya. Then his steroid use became an infamous topic because it was everywhere from newspapers to the media. Oscar's face looked bright red when he said something along the lines of "forget about it." HA!

10). As a ******* - I put Floyd Mayweather Jr. here in the bottom since I never heard of him back in the 1990s and early 2000s. I only started learning his name and record in 2007 when people started writing about Oscar De La Hoya should fight Floyd Mayweather Jr. Seriously, I never heard of him back then.

This list was made based on popularity not skills or what have you. I was a casual boxing fan back in the 1990s and early 2000s. I never even heard of Pernell Whitaker in all honesty until he fought Oscar De La Hoya. Oscar made me follow boxing a little bit. I was never interested in boxing other than who Oscar was going to fight next.

I became a ******* because the guy just demolishes everyone he faces or makes a fight in every fight he is in. His first fight with Erik Morales made me a fan of both boxers. When I watch the Oscar De La Hoya vs Manny Pacquiao - to me it feels like a passing of the torch because as an example instead of me following Oscar now I follow Pacquiao.

And if you grew up in New York City then some of you remember that commercial Oscar de la Hoya did for Puerto Rico the "Mi Casa, Su Casa" commercial. As a casual fan back then, for a moment I thought Oscar was Puerto Rican because of how many times it was played on air then I remembered he was a Mexican-American U.S. Olympic gold medalist. :boxing:

MANIAC310
05-17-2011, 03:01 AM
LMAO at Pernell Whitaker being #1 that alone make your list a joke

1.Roy Jones Jr
2.Bernard Hopkins
3.Marco Antonio Barrera
4.Manny Pacquiao
5.Lennox Lewis
6.James Toney
7.Tito Trinidad
8.Rafeal Marquez
9.Floyd Mayweather
10.Erik Morales/Juan Manuel Marquez

Danm that was tough to do

rafael is above juan? WTF

lol :chairshot

Jury
05-17-2011, 03:57 AM
Lists are like a-holes, everybody has one and only everybody else's stink.
:D

The_Demon
05-17-2011, 05:48 AM
Looks like a good list too me

IRISH LULLABY
05-17-2011, 06:24 AM
LMAO at Pernell Whitaker being #1 that alone make your list a joke

1.Roy Jones Jr
2.Bernard Hopkins
3.Marco Antonio Barrera
4.Manny Pacquiao
5.Lennox Lewis
6.James Toney
7.Tito Trinidad
8.Rafeal Marquez
9.Floyd Mayweather
10.Erik Morales/Juan Manuel Marquez

Danm that was tough to do


No credible boxing scholar would leave Pernell Whitaker out of the Top 5, let alone the entire Top 10 of such a list, which is absolute madness if you ask me. Whitaker is arguably the greatest boxer of the past 21 years and any list which doesn't include him in some way, shape or form should be rubbished. Talent, skills, resume etc. Pernell had it all and is a certified All Time Great.

Please explain why you rate Juan Manuel Marquez greater than Pernell Whitaker.

SBleeder
05-17-2011, 07:10 AM
Here's mine:

1. Ricardo Lopez
2. Pernell Whitaker
3. Roy Jones Jr.
4. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Joe Calzaghe
7. Manny Pacquiao
8. Rosendo Alvarez
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Chris John

SCtrojansbaby
05-17-2011, 10:05 AM
No credible boxing scholar would leave Pernell Whitaker out of the Top 5, let alone the entire Top 10 of such a list, which is absolute madness if you ask me. Whitaker is arguably the greatest boxer of the past 21 years and any list which doesn't include him in some way, shape or form should be rubbished. Talent, skills, resume etc. Pernell had it all and is a certified All Time Great.

Please explain why you rate Juan Manuel Marquez greater than Pernell Whitaker.


Who the heck did Pernell Whitaker beat from 91-present? Seriously... Buddy Mcgirt? Julio Cesar Vasquez? Razor thin win vs Wilfredo Rivera? Pernell whitaker isn't even in the top 25 from 91-present. His 2 best wins(JLR and Azumah) which weren't even that great came in the 80s

Barrera, Casamayor and Gainer>>>>>>Mcgirt Vasquez and Rivera

and before you say well what about Chavez and Oscar.
Close decisions vs Pacquiao x2>>>>>>>>Close decisions vs Chavez(at welterweight) and Oscar


There is no logical way you can have Pernell Whitaker in the top 10 or above Marquez

Joeyzagz
05-17-2011, 10:14 AM
1. Joe calzaghe
2. Lennox Lewis
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Floyd Mayweather
5. Roy Jones Jr
6. Pernell Whitaker
7. Naseem Hamed
8. Evander Holyfield
9. Mike Tyson
10. Vitali Klitschko

studentofthegam
05-17-2011, 10:17 AM
First off, where's ya'lls list then?



Honestly Tyson was just up there for the hell of it haha thought I'd get ***** if I didn't place but turns out the opposite haha Liike I said I made this ***** in like 5mins, it was a quick impulsive thread.

Honestly Mayweather hurts his own legacy. He's easily top 5 the most talented but he don't do ***** with it. He ducked Pac(last two years and still going), Margarito(08-09), and Cotto(after the Oscar fight). Because of his "retirements". Rather fight small Hatton and small Marquez then the best at his weight class. The past few years the best welterweights have been Margarito, Cotto, Pac, and Mosley. How the **** does he only fight Mosley yet Pac fought them all? His resume below welterweight is beautiful and all but his "retirements" and lack of activity not to mention not fighting those fighters at their best.

I refuse to put Manny over Morales, but I can see him being put over Barrera because that is his best win EVER. PERIOD.



How come everywhere I post your always hating? Is it because in NSB I hyped up a Puerto Rican? haha I don't give a **** about that feud I thought he was an exciting young prospect. If you even knew me as a poster before that thread and knew my old sigs Juan Manuel Marquez is easily one of the favorite fighters today only behind probably Hopkins.



I actually am kind of ashamed in myself for not mentioning Marquez since he is one of my all time favorite fighters.

Tyson out, Marquez in. Edited with more thought into it.There is no excuse for not having Floyd in there. You didnt to avoid confrontation.

1). Manny Pacquiao - Proud el *******o of the BoxingScene forum.

2). Oscar De La Hoya - Guy made boxing popular to women. Latinas can't stop talking about Oscar back in the days especially about how good looking he was. He made me follow boxing when I was a teenager. He was the PPV King along with Mike Tyson.

3). Roy Jones Jr. - He continued the popularity of boxing within the black community. Undefeated and barely had a boring fight during his prime.

4). Prince Naseem Hamed - Guy tried to do something different in boxing especially with his theatrical entrance. He made boxing exciting before the fight even begins.

5). Mike Tyson - the Heavyweight champ who instilled fear and kept boxing in the newspapers. Guy was PPV King, so even I watched his fights.

6). Erik Morales - the man who challenged every tough fighter in his division. A true proud Mexican fighter. And I should put Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. here too. He was very popular during the 1990s then Oscar beat him - torch passed.

7). Tito Trinidad - gave Puerto Ricans in New York City in the 1990s something to brag about. I still hear them in my ears from subway to school - it was all about Tito Trinidad when it came to boxing. Posters of Trinidad vs De La Hoya were everywhere in New York City inside the subway station, the bus, and billboards.

8). Arturo Gatti/Mikey Ward - these two fought so hard that people still talk about them especially within the Caucasian boxing fan communities.

9). Sugar Shane Mosley - became a certified boxing celebrity when he beat Oscar De La Hoya. Then his steroid use became an infamous topic because it was everywhere from newspapers to the media. Oscar's face looked bright red when he said something along the lines of "forget about it." HA!

10). As a ******* - I put Floyd Mayweather Jr. here in the bottom since I never heard of him back in the 1990s and early 2000s. I only started learning his name and record in 2007 when people started writing about Oscar De La Hoya should fight Floyd Mayweather Jr. Seriously, I never heard of him back then.

This list was made based on popularity not skills or what have you. I was a casual boxing fan back in the 1990s and early 2000s. I never even heard of Pernell Whitaker in all honesty until he fought Oscar De La Hoya. Oscar made me follow boxing a little bit. I was never interested in boxing other than who Oscar was going to fight next.

I became a ******* because the guy just demolishes everyone he faces or makes a fight in every fight he is in. His first fight with Erik Morales made me a fan of both boxers. When I watch the Oscar De La Hoya vs Manny Pacquiao - to me it feels like a passing of the torch because as an example instead of me following Oscar now I follow Pacquiao.

And if you grew up in New York City then some of you remember that commercial Oscar de la Hoya did for Puerto Rico the "Mi Casa, Su Casa" commercial. As a casual fan back then, for a moment I thought Oscar was Puerto Rican because of how many times it was played on air then I remembered he was a Mexican-American U.S. Olympic gold medalist. :boxing:My eyes imediately went to Hamed. Good Laud! You never heard of....or.....Didnt watch boxing?

Ziggy Stardust
05-17-2011, 02:10 PM
Pernell Whitaker:

Ring Magazine's p4p #1 in 1993,1994,1995
Ring Magazine's p4p #2 in 1990,1991,1992
Ring Magazine's p4p #3 in 1996
Ring Magazine's Lightweight #1 in 1990
Ring Magazine's Junior-Welterweight #2 in 1991,1992
Ring Magazine's Welterweight #1 in 1993,1994,1995,1996

Any more questions about Sweet Pea?

Poet

JAB5239
05-17-2011, 03:08 PM
Pernell Whitaker:

Ring Magazine's p4p #1 in 1993,1994,1995
Ring Magazine's p4p #2 in 1990,1991,1992
Ring Magazine's p4p #3 in 1996
Ring Magazine's Lightweight #1 in 1990
Ring Magazine's Junior-Welterweight #2 in 1991,1992
Ring Magazine's Welterweight #1 in 1993,1994,1995,1996

Any more questions about Sweet Pea?

Poet

Heh, heh, heh, the boy doith need to check his facts, don't he?

Ziggy Stardust
05-17-2011, 03:13 PM
Heh, heh, heh, the boy doith need to check his facts, don't he?

He wouldn't know a fact if it b1tch slapped him :chuckle9:

Poet

IronDanHamza
05-17-2011, 03:58 PM
Pernell Whitaker:

Ring Magazine's p4p #1 in 1993,1994,1995
Ring Magazine's p4p #2 in 1990,1991,1992
Ring Magazine's p4p #3 in 1996
Ring Magazine's Lightweight #1 in 1990
Ring Magazine's Junior-Welterweight #2 in 1991,1992
Ring Magazine's Welterweight #1 in 1993,1994,1995,1996

Any more questions about Sweet Pea?

Poet

I guess that closes the 'Whitaker isn't a Top 10 fighter of the 90's' argument.

I didn't even justify that with a response.

Next I'll be hearing Whitaker-Ramirez 1 wasn't a robbery. Oh wait..

Ziggy Stardust
05-17-2011, 04:04 PM
Next I'll be hearing Whitaker-Ramirez 1 wasn't a robbery. Oh wait..

:rofl9: Yeah, and Julio Cesar Crybaby really beat the snot out of Pea. Oh wait..... :rofl9: :rofl9: :rofl9:

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
05-17-2011, 04:05 PM
I guess that closes the 'Whitaker isn't a Top 10 fighter of the 90's' argument.

I didn't even justify that with a response.

Next I'll be hearing Whitaker-Ramirez 1 wasn't a robbery. Oh wait..

Bottom line: There's a few posters around here that live in their own little fantasy world where up is down and noon is midnight :chuckle9: Lewis Carroll couldn't have done better :hahahaha9:

Poet

joseph5620
05-17-2011, 04:11 PM
LMAO at Pernell Whitaker being #1 that alone make your list a joke
1.Roy Jones Jr
2.Bernard Hopkins
3.Marco Antonio Barrera
4.Manny Pacquiao
5.Lennox Lewis
6.James Toney
7.Tito Trinidad
8.Rafeal Marquez
9.Floyd Mayweather
10.Erik Morales/Juan Manuel Marquez

Danm that was tough to do




I think it's funnier that you ranked Virgil Hill over Pernell Whitaker. Talk about a joke.

joseph5620
05-17-2011, 04:15 PM
He wouldn't know a fact if it b1tch slapped him :chuckle9:

Poet








Facts to him are what antibiotics are to bacteria.

SCtrojansbaby
05-17-2011, 04:18 PM
You guys are kidding about Pernell Whitaker right?

His best wins from 91-present are against Buddy Mcgirt and Julio Cesar Vasquez PLEASE tell me you people are joking

$BloodyNate$
05-17-2011, 04:23 PM
You guys are kidding about Pernell Whitaker right?

His best wins from 91-present are against Buddy Mcgirt and Julio Cesar Vasquez PLEASE tell me you people are joking

You can't talk ***** since you didn't even watch boxing back then obviously. Me either because I was a toddler but at least do some motha****in research before you make yourself look retarded. Like I said the history section isn't for boxrec warrior like you fool.

Jim Jeffries
05-17-2011, 04:26 PM
Order is more difficult, but I would think the list should include

Pernell Whitaker
Roy Jones Jr
Manny Pacquiao
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Oscar De La Hoya
Bernard Hopkins
Marco Antonio Barrera
Eric Morales
Ricardo Lopez
Juan Manuel Marquez

Though I feel like I'm forgetting somebody.

SCtrojansbaby
05-17-2011, 04:29 PM
You can't talk ***** since you didn't even watch boxing back then obviously. Me either because I was a toddler but at least do some motha****in research before you make yourself look retarded. Like I said the history section isn't for boxrec warrior like you fool.


Do wins against Buddy Mcgirt and Julio Cesar Vasquez make you at top 10 fighter over the last 21 years? Answer yes or no

IronDanHamza
05-17-2011, 04:29 PM
You guys are kidding about Pernell Whitaker right?

His best wins from 91-present are against Buddy Mcgirt and Julio Cesar Vasquez PLEASE tell me you people are joking

Why are you acting like the bulk of Whitakers career was in the 80's or something?

He won his first title offically in 1989..

The thread isn't asking for 91-11 it asking for 90-10, so it does include Azumah Nelson. As much as you might not want it to.

In the 90's, Whitaker offically beat, Nelson, Mcgirt X2, Vasquez and he did beat Chavez.

He also beat De La Hoya in many peoples opinion.

In the 90's he defended his Lightweight title 6 times, Won Jr Welter and Jr Middleweight titles and won the Welterweight title defending it 8 times offically, in many peoples opinion more.

Poet has already shown his consistent ranking throughout the 90's.

Pretty difficult to not rank him in the Top 10 for the 90's..

SCtrojansbaby
05-17-2011, 04:29 PM
Order is more difficult, but I would think the list should include

Pernell Whitaker
Roy Jones Jr
Manny Pacquiao
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Oscar De La Hoya
Bernard Hopkins
Marco Antonio Barrera
Eric Morales
Ricardo Lopez
Juan Manuel Marquez

Though I feel like I'm forgetting somebody.


Lennox Lewis and Rafeal Marquez maybe Mosley. De La Hoya definitly shouldn't be IMO

joseph5620
05-17-2011, 04:32 PM
You guys are kidding about Pernell Whitaker right?

His best wins from 91-present are against Buddy Mcgirt and Julio Cesar Vasquez PLEASE tell me you people are joking

Do you even know who those fighters are? Julio Cesar Vasquez was a junior middleweight champion who's only loss was by DQ. His victories? Winky Wright who he knocked down 4 times. And also Aaron Davis who knocked out Mark Breland. Whitaker moved up to 154 (no catchweight) and won a clear decision over Vasquez.

McGirt? 21 fight win streak including a one sided decision over Simon Brown who's only loss at the time was a decision to Marlon Starling. Yeah that Simon Brown who knocked out Terry Norris. Whitaker beat him twice.



I wont get into fighters like Rafael Pineda. That would be too deep for you. Or the fact that Whitaker easily beat Chavez since you believe "low blows" did Chavez in :rofl:





I think you enjoy playing the clown. That's cool. I'll play along with you.

IronDanHamza
05-17-2011, 04:39 PM
Do you even know who those fighters are? Julio Cesar Vasquez was a junior middleweight champion who's only loss was by DQ. His victories? Winky Wright who he knocked down 4 times. And also Aaron Davis who knocked out Mark Breland. Whitaker moved up to 154 (no catchweight) and won a clear decision over Vasquez.

McGirt? 21 fight win streak including a one sided decision over Simon Brown who's only loss at the time was a decision to Marlon Starling. Yeah that Simon Brown who knocked out Terry Norris. Whitaker beat him twice.



I wont get into fighters like Rafael Pineda. That would be too deep for you. Or the fact that Whitaker easily beat Chavez since you believe "low blows" did Chavez in :rofl:





I think you enjoy playing the clown. That's cool. I'll play along with you.

Remember Simon Brown was supposed to kill Buddy McGirt too.

Good post.

SCtrojansbaby
05-17-2011, 04:42 PM
Do you even know who those fighters are? Julio Cesar Vasquez was a junior middleweight chmapion who's only loss was by DQ. His victories? Winky Wright who he knocked down 4 times. And also Aaron Davis who knocked out Mark Breland. Whitaker moved up to 154 (no cactchweight) and won a clear decision over Vasquez.

McGirt? 21 fight win streak including a one sided decision over Simon Brown who's only loss at the time was a decision to Marlon Starling. Yeah that Simon Brown who knocked out Terry Norris. Whitaker beat him twice.



I wont get into fighters like Rafael Pineda. That would be too deep for you. Or the fact that Whitaker easily beat Chavez since you believe "low blows" did Chavez in :rofl:





I think you enjoy playing the clown. That's cool. I'll play along with you.


LOL so you are seriously saying wins over Mcgirt Vasquez and Pineda + a fantasy win against Chavez

Is better then say Mosley. who beat
DLH twice
Margarito
Vargas twice
Phillip Holiday


or Rafa Marquez who has 4 legit great wins
Mark Johnson twice
Tim Austin
Isreal Vasquez + a fantasy win against Vasquez in there 3rd fight

or Ricardo Lopez or Lennox Lewis or Trinidad?

RubenSonny
05-17-2011, 04:47 PM
LOL so you are seriously saying wins over Mcgirt Vasquez and Pineda + a fantasy win against Chavez

Is better then say Mosley. who beat
DLH twice
Margarito
Vargas twice
Phillip Holiday


or Rafa Marquez who has 4 legit great wins
Mark Johnson twice
Tim Austin
Isreal Vasquez + a fantasy win against Vasquez in there 3rd fight

or Ricardo Lopez or Lennox Lewis or Trinidad?

Yes, easily.

$BloodyNate$
05-17-2011, 04:49 PM
LOL so you are seriously saying wins over Mcgirt Vasquez and Pineda + a fantasy win against Chavez

Is better then say Mosley. who beat
DLH twice
Margarito
Vargas twice
Phillip Holiday


You don't give them any credit because you don't know who the **** they are and just went in on boxrec. They were great in the 80's-90's like those fighters were in the 2000's. 10-20 years from now their's going to be another troll like yourself using boxrec saying Shane Mosley beat who? Vargas? Phillip who? Their gonna say DLH lost all his big fights and ***** on Margarito for having 7 losses and the wraps. That's how idiots make themselves look retarded.

You need to actually do your damn research and actually watch some damn fights. Boxrec does not tell you how great ANYBODY is.

SCtrojansbaby
05-17-2011, 04:50 PM
Yes, easily.

So your saying
Mcgirt>Mark Johnson
Julio Cesar Vasquez>Isreal Vasquez
Pineda>Tim Austin

are you kidding me?

RubenSonny
05-17-2011, 04:54 PM
So your saying
Mcgirt>Mark Johnson
Julio Cesar Vasquez>Isreal Vasquez
Pineda>Tim Austin

are you kidding me?

Plus the Chavez fight very easy for Whitaker.

SCtrojansbaby
05-17-2011, 04:58 PM
Plus the Chavez fight very easy for Whitaker.

a fantasy win against Isreal Vasquez(3rd fight)>a fantasy win against Chavez at welterweight a division where Chavez did absolutely nothing

RubenSonny
05-17-2011, 05:03 PM
a fantasy win against Isreal Vasquez(3rd fight)>a fantasy win against Chavez at welterweight a division where Chavez did absolutely nothing

The fight was at 145, thats 5 pounds above his normal weight at the time, and he was an elite prime fighter (without a doubt better than Vasquez) and Pea wasn't a big welterweight either (nor did he start his career there). Its arguably the best win of the last 21 years. I'll be sure to red k you when I can.

Boxing Bob
05-17-2011, 05:06 PM
my top 10 from 1990 to present
1. Ricardo Lopez
2. Mayweather Jr
3. Hopkins
4. Whitaker
5. Roy Jones
6. Chavez
7. Pacman
8. Trinidad
9. DeLahoya
10. JMM

SCtrojansbaby
05-17-2011, 05:07 PM
The fight was at 145, thats 5 pounds above his normal weight at the time, and he was an elite prime fighter (without a doubt better than Vasquez) and Pea wasn't a big welterweight either (nor did he start his career there). Its arguably the best win of the last 21 years. I'll be sure to red k you when I can.


Like I said Chavez did nothing above 140 but then against you actually think
Buddy Mcgirt>Mark Johnson
Julio Cesar Vasquez>Isreal Vasquez
Pineda>Tim Austin

So yeah this is really pointless

RubenSonny
05-17-2011, 05:23 PM
Like I said Chavez did nothing above 140 but then against you actually think
Buddy Mcgirt>Mark Johnson
Julio Cesar Vasquez>Isreal Vasquez
Pineda>Tim Austin

So yeah this is really pointless

Johnson did nothing at full bantamweight, no?

Well I'd say the Mcgirt win was a bit better than Johnson win.

JCV is clearly better than Vasquez win.

I'd say the Austin win was better than the Pineda win though, not by much though.

SCtrojansbaby
05-17-2011, 05:37 PM
Johnson did nothing at full bantamweight, no?

Well I'd say the Mcgirt win was a bit better than Johnson win.

JCV is clearly better than Vasquez win.

I'd say the Austin win was better than the Pineda win though, not by much though.

LOL I guess we just have vastly different opinions about these fighters and wins.

Walt Liquor
05-18-2011, 11:02 AM
I like this topic since its in my wheelhouse.....but I don't have my research materials here at work.... gonna catch a lot of shi t for #1

1) Bernard Hopkins (based on longevity/accomplishment/should have been in ring top 10 pfp for 1999-2009 and arguably last year))
2) Roy Jones Jr (speaks for itself except his flame out and shameful return)
3) Pernell Whitaker (already been discussed)
4) Manny Pacquaio (not impressed with recent run)
5) FLoyd Mayweather Jr
6) MArco ANtonio Barrera
7) Lennox Lewis
8) Juan Manuel Marquez
9) Ricardo Lopez (never moved up for two HUGE potential showdowns)
10) Tito Trinidad

I can never get past the whole Zahir Raheem thing with EM. I LOVE Toney, but he basically took a sabbatical from 99-the Jirov fight to me. HOlyfield's entire cruiser resume is excluded b/c of the timeframe so that really knocks him down to me. JoCal should be close as well, but I can't get over all those wasted years fighting the Kabary Salim's of the world. And comp level means a lot to me (I know that jeopardizes my lennox pick)

RubenSonny
05-18-2011, 02:19 PM
*Throws **** at Walt*

Walt Liquor
05-18-2011, 03:22 PM
*Throws **** at Walt*

There's absolutely no personal bias at the top of my list. (only at the top, for reals).

SCtrojansbaby
05-18-2011, 06:58 PM
I am beating a dead horse but it still amazes me that anyone could have Pernell that high.

I think you people just see someone else put him high so everybody else does it to because no one can honestly think wins over Buddy Mcgirt x2 and Julio Cesar Vasquez are greater then say Barrera's wins against Morales x2 Hamed Tapia Ayala Mckinney

Ziggy Stardust
05-18-2011, 07:04 PM
I am beating a dead horse but it still amazes me that anyone could have Pernell that high.

I think you people just see someone else put him high so everybody else does it to because no one can honestly think wins over Buddy Mcgirt x2 and Julio Cesar Vasquez are greater then say Barrera's wins against Morales x2 Hamed Tapia Ayala Mckinney

Pernell Whitaker:

Ring Magazine's p4p #1 in 1993,1994,1995
Ring Magazine's p4p #2 in 1990,1991,1992
Ring Magazine's p4p #3 in 1996
Ring Magazine's Lightweight #1 in 1990
Ring Magazine's Junior-Welterweight #2 in 1991,1992
Ring Magazine's Welterweight #1 in 1993,1994,1995,1996

Any more questions about Sweet Pea?

Poet

Mugwump
05-18-2011, 07:25 PM
1). Manny Pacquiao - Proud el *******o of the BoxingScene forum.

2). Oscar De La Hoya - Guy made boxing popular to women. Latinas can't stop talking about Oscar back in the days especially about how good looking he was. He made me follow boxing when I was a teenager. He was the PPV King along with Mike Tyson.

3). Roy Jones Jr. - He continued the popularity of boxing within the black community. Undefeated and barely had a boring fight during his prime.

4). Prince Naseem Hamed - Guy tried to do something different in boxing especially with his theatrical entrance. He made boxing exciting before the fight even begins.

5). Mike Tyson - the Heavyweight champ who instilled fear and kept boxing in the newspapers. Guy was PPV King, so even I watched his fights.

6). Erik Morales - the man who challenged every tough fighter in his division. A true proud Mexican fighter. And I should put Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. here too. He was very popular during the 1990s then Oscar beat him - torch passed.

7). Tito Trinidad - gave Puerto Ricans in New York City in the 1990s something to brag about. I still hear them in my ears from subway to school - it was all about Tito Trinidad when it came to boxing. Posters of Trinidad vs De La Hoya were everywhere in New York City inside the subway station, the bus, and billboards.

8). Arturo Gatti/Mikey Ward - these two fought so hard that people still talk about them especially within the Caucasian boxing fan communities.

9). Sugar Shane Mosley - became a certified boxing celebrity when he beat Oscar De La Hoya. Then his steroid use became an infamous topic because it was everywhere from newspapers to the media. Oscar's face looked bright red when he said something along the lines of "forget about it." HA!

10). As a ******* - I put Floyd Mayweather Jr. here in the bottom since I never heard of him back in the 1990s and early 2000s. I only started learning his name and record in 2007 when people started writing about Oscar De La Hoya should fight Floyd Mayweather Jr. Seriously, I never heard of him back then.

This list was made based on popularity not skills or what have you. I was a casual boxing fan back in the 1990s and early 2000s. I never even heard of Pernell Whitaker in all honesty until he fought Oscar De La Hoya. Oscar made me follow boxing a little bit. I was never interested in boxing other than who Oscar was going to fight next.

I became a ******* because the guy just demolishes everyone he faces or makes a fight in every fight he is in. His first fight with Erik Morales made me a fan of both boxers. When I watch the Oscar De La Hoya vs Manny Pacquiao - to me it feels like a passing of the torch because as an example instead of me following Oscar now I follow Pacquiao.

And if you grew up in New York City then some of you remember that commercial Oscar de la Hoya did for Puerto Rico the "Mi Casa, Su Casa" commercial. As a casual fan back then, for a moment I thought Oscar was Puerto Rican because of how many times it was played on air then I remembered he was a Mexican-American U.S. Olympic gold medalist. :boxing:

Nice list. I'm not sure I agree with some of your selections but it's good to see people throwing names (and the reasons for such) forward which fall outside the usual bunch of tired old legends.

IronDanHamza
05-18-2011, 07:30 PM
I am beating a dead horse but it still amazes me that anyone could have Pernell that high.

I think you people just see someone else put him high so everybody else does it to because no one can honestly think wins over Buddy Mcgirt x2 and Julio Cesar Vasquez are greater then say Barrera's wins against Morales x2 Hamed Tapia Ayala Mckinney

Again, the TS clearly stated the timeline is from 90-2010.

So that does include Azumah Nelson.

Add the clear victory over Chavez to that and it's abudently clear he ATLEAST belongs in the list.

Add the fact he was crowned world champion across 3 weight classes in that decade and defended his Lightweight title many times. Then his ranking across the decade.

RubenSonny
05-18-2011, 07:37 PM
Again, the TS clearly stated the timeline is from 90-2010.

So that does include Azumah Nelson.

Add the clear victory over Chavez to that and it's abudently clear he ATLEAST belongs in the list.

Add the fact he was crowned world champion across 3 weight classes in that decade and defended his Lightweight title many times. Then his ranking across the decade.

I'm pretty sure he rates Virgil Hill above Pea....

IronDanHamza
05-18-2011, 08:09 PM
I'm pretty sure he rates Virgil Hill above Pea....

:lol1: :lol1: What a joke.

SCtrojansbaby
05-18-2011, 08:19 PM
Again, the TS clearly stated the timeline is from 90-2010.

So that does include Azumah Nelson.

Add the clear victory over Chavez to that and it's abudently clear he ATLEAST belongs in the list.

Add the fact he was crowned world champion across 3 weight classes in that decade and defended his Lightweight title many times. Then his ranking across the decade.


He edited that in later. He originally had it 91-2011 which the is the last 21 years which the thread title still states. And a win over Nelson put him in the top 10 but definitely in the lower half.

If we are giving fantasy wins then he still wouldn't be over Barrera who has fantasy wins over Morales(1st fight) Marquez and Junior Jones

Morales x3 Hamed Marquez Jones Mckinney Tapia Ayala

are far greater then

Nelson McGirt x2 Chavez(above 140) Vasquez Pineda Wilfredo Rivera x2

If you claim other wise then you simply do not know ***** about boxing

IronDanHamza
05-18-2011, 08:27 PM
He edited that in later. He originally had it 91-2011 which the is the last 21 years which the thread title still states. And a win over Nelson put him in the top 10 but definitely in the lower half.

If we are giving fantasy wins then he still wouldn't be over Barrera who has fantasy wins over Morales(1st fight) Marquez and Junior Jones

Morales x3 Hamed Marquez Jones Mckinney Tapia Ayala

are far greater then

Nelson McGirt x2 Chavez(above 140) Vasquez Pineda Wilfredo Rivera x2

If you claim other wise then you simply do not know ***** about boxing

91-2011 is 20 years. Not 21.

Whitaker's 'fantasy win' was much clearer than Barrera's controversial ones over Morales.

You will find many people who agree that Whitaker should be ranked higher than Barrera over the last 20 years. You will be hard fought finding someone who agrees with the other way round. Ever wonder why that might be?

Oh, yeah, I don't know sh*t about Boxing, definitely. Virgill Hill is definitely greater than Pernell Whitaker..

:dunce:

jrosales13
05-18-2011, 08:28 PM
He edited that in later. He originally had it 91-2011 which the is the last 21 years which the thread title still states. And a win over Nelson put him in the top 10 but definitely in the lower half.

If we are giving fantasy wins then he still wouldn't be over Barrera who has fantasy wins over Morales(1st fight) Marquez and Junior Jones

Morales x3 Hamed Marquez Jones Mckinney Tapia Ayala

are far greater then

Nelson McGirt x2 Chavez(above 140) Vasquez Pineda Wilfredo Rivera x2

If you claim other wise then you simply do not know ***** about boxing

2011-21 years=1990.

And, anybody who doesn't have Whitaker in the top 5 in the last 21 years. Just simply doesn't know **** about boxing.

:lol1: @ ranking Virgil Hill>>>>Whitaker.

IronDanHamza
05-18-2011, 08:31 PM
2011-21 years=1990.

And, anybody who doesn't have Whitaker in the top 5 in the last 21 years. Just simply doesn't know **** about boxing.

:lol1: @ ranking Virgil Hill>>>>Whitaker.

He doesn't have him in the top 10..

SCtrojansbaby
05-18-2011, 08:43 PM
91-2011 is 20 years. Not 21.

Whitaker's 'fantasy win' was much clearer than Barrera's controversial ones over Morales.

You will find many people who agree that Whitaker should be ranked higher than Barrera over the last 20 years. You will be hard fought finding someone who agrees with the other way round. Ever wonder why that might be?

Oh, yeah, I don't know sh*t about Boxing, definitely. Virgill Hill is definitely greater than Pernell Whitaker..



You can't give fantasy wins one way and not give them the other way A resume of Morales x3 Hamed Mckinney is FAR greater then Chavez(above 140) Nelson(above 130) Vasquez Mcgirt x2 and you know it.

Math is not your strong suit :dunce:

1.1991
2.1992
3.1993
4.1994
5.1995
6.1996
7.1997
8.1998
9.1999
10.2000
11.2001
12.2002
13.2003
14.2004
15.2005
16.2006
17.2007
18.2008
19.2009
20.2010
21. 2011

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 08:54 PM
I wouldn't rate Whitaker #1 if we're talking 1990 to present. Pacquiao, Jones, etc. would vehemently disagree. It's real tough to make a pound for pound list but if I did (don't quote me on this, it may change as soon as tomorrow), I'd rate them from 1990-present as:

1. Roy Jones Jr.
Jones was the Fighter of the Decade of the 90's over Whitaker and deservedly so. I don't count the losses post-Tarver III too much as, after that(and maybe before), he was a spent force. He was unbeatable in his prime, rarely losing a minute, let alone a round. It wasn't a brief period either, he dominated for about a decade. I think you can make a strong case for Pacquiao here but my vote goes to Jones.

2. Manny Pacquiao
Pacquiao would hover around the level of Barrera and Morales on this list if his run ended at 130 but it didn't. While his wins in higher divisions don't rank with his wins in the lower ones, stoppages of Cotto and Hatton - particularly how it was done - were highly impressive and catapult him to the upper crust of this list. He's still not done and I think one or two more big wins (he has the opponents around him to do it) would put him on a list of names far smaller than this one.

3. Pernell Whitaker
Pea may have the glossiest wins on this list (Nelson, Chavez, McGirt, Oscar IMO). That's a pretty sick list of names. But he was also very uneven during that time following the Chavez win. The head-scratching performances against Rivera and the Hurtado bout was pretty bad. But if we went back another five years, he'd be #1 on this list easy.

4. Bernard Hopkins
I may be underrating Bernard a tad but I think we'll have a better idea of where he stands following this weekend. If he finally shows his age then I'll leave him at #4. I think his resume speaks for itself and while I'm not his biggest fan, he has the utmost respect from me. The Tito win was the stuff of legends; that performance was masterful. And that was his record breaking 14th defense of the middleweight crown. At 36. And he defended it about five more times. Then the leap to LHW to upset a top three pound for pounder in Tarver sealed his legacy as an ATG. It's incredible he still isn't done.

5. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Floyd has the advantage of being undefeated but it's not a hollow 'O', his dossier is pretty strong. At 130-135, he could hang and beat nearly anyone. His stay at 140 was mediocre but his resume at 147 is solid. I suspect he has only one more great fight left in him (if that) so he may want to make it count. A win over Martinez/Pacquiao would push him to the top slot.

6. Erik Morales

7. Felix Trinidad

8. Marco Antonio Barrera

9. Evander Holyfield

10. Ricardo Lopez

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 08:56 PM
The more I think about it, the more I wanna move Pea higher.

jrosales13
05-18-2011, 09:04 PM
The more I think about it, the more I wanna move Pea higher.

I think you can put Whitaker anywhere in the top 3.

But, a damn good list :fing02:

SCtrojansbaby
05-18-2011, 09:04 PM
The more I think about it, the more I wanna move Pea higher.

Why? He beat Nelson at a weight he never won a fight at. He fantasy beat Chavez at a weight Chavez accomplished nothing at.

The_Demon
05-18-2011, 09:06 PM
He edited that in later. He originally had it 91-2011 which the is the last 21 years which the thread title still states. And a win over Nelson put him in the top 10 but definitely in the lower half.

If we are giving fantasy wins then he still wouldn't be over Barrera who has fantasy wins over Morales(1st fight) Marquez and Junior Jones

Morales x3 Hamed Marquez Jones Mckinney Tapia Ayala

are far greater then

Nelson McGirt x2 Chavez(above 140) Vasquez Pineda Wilfredo Rivera x2

If you claim other wise then you simply do not know ***** about boxing

You genuinely dont think Pea belongs in the top 10 of the last twenty years?

Do you ever wonder why your the laughing stock of the history section? Im sorry but insulting IronDanHamza who happens too be a very good poster wont help you understand the sport of boxing at all,listening would help,but you clearly arent able too do that

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 09:08 PM
I think you can put Whitaker anywhere in the top 3.

But, a damn good list :fing02:

Grazie, homey. Have you watched Tito-Hopkins again? Come on, man! :lol1:

SCtrojansbaby
05-18-2011, 09:11 PM
You genuinely dont think Pea belongs in the top 10 of the last twenty years?

Do you ever wonder why your the laughing stock of the history section? Im sorry but insulting IronDanHamza who happens too be a very good poster wont help you understand the sport of boxing at all,listening would help,but you clearly arent able too do that


From 91-present NO His resume simply does not stand up. 90-present he is somewhere from 10-8 clearly below guys like Barrera

And yes I realize that opinions have been formed here and everybody takes them as fact and anybody who has a different opinion is a laughing stock.

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 09:11 PM
Why? He beat Nelson at a weight he never won a fight at. He fantasy beat Chavez at a weight Chavez accomplished nothing at.

Yeah, but I don't think the weight was much of a factor in either fight. It's just not the same across the board. I don't think the weight was a factor for Nelson, he was strong throughout and may have even finished the stronger fighter. He was simply outmatched by a young, fleet-footed defensive genius in his prime. I still think Nelson knocked him down at least once that wasn't counted :D.

Same for Chavez.

jrosales13
05-18-2011, 09:12 PM
Grazie, homey. Have you watched Tito-Hopkins again? Come on, man! :lol1:

:lol1: not yet...baby steps, baby steps....Give me time :lol1:

I did watch Tito-Carr again two days ago though :D

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 09:15 PM
:lol1: not yet...baby steps, baby steps....Give me time :lol1:

I did watch Tito-Carr again two days ago though :D

:lol1: I think I'll watch Tito-Vargas before I nod off tonight.

RubenSonny
05-18-2011, 09:22 PM
The more I think about it, the more I wanna move Pea higher.

Sick list and I enjoyed the explanations, but I think Whitaker has to be number one or 2 the very least, he has by far the best secondary wins out of everyone, he beat better contenders through that time period to compliment those "glossy wins". Though he looked **** against Rivera and Hurtado he still holds legitimate wins over them and it still counts to his resume. I also think its pretty clear that he has the least embarrassing losses of the 3 mentioned, though I don't put too much stock into them, it counts for something. in addition, he probably has the single best win (I don't give a **** about the judges Trojan), it has to be Pea for me.

All props to you for making the list, I don't think I could commit to a top 10.

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 09:28 PM
Sick list and I enjoyed the explanations, but I think Whitaker has to be number one or 2 the very least, he has by far the best secondary wins out of everyone, he beat better contenders through that time period to compliment those "glossy wins". Though he looked **** against Rivera and Hurtado he still holds legitimate wins over them and it still counts to his resume. I also think its pretty clear that he has the least embarrassing losses of the 3 mentioned, though I don't put too much stock into them, it counts for something. in addition, he probably has the single best win (I don't give a **** about the judges Trojan), it has to be Pea for me.

All props to you for making the list, I don't think I could commit to a top 10.

Barely five minutes passed and I changed it lol. Took out Lennox and inserted Evander before Lopez. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I want to place Pea #1. I don't know, man.

Steak
05-18-2011, 09:29 PM
The best has to be Whitaker. He has the best single win of the last 20 years over Chavez, and has a plethora of other high quality wins to back it up, like Ramirez, Nelson, Vasquez, McGirt, etc.

add in the fact that he just might deserve a win over prime DLH despite being past prime and coked up and personally its pretty clear cut for me.

I put most my emphasis on quality of wins, and there I think Whitaker just has too much going for him.

RubenSonny
05-18-2011, 09:34 PM
Barely five minutes passed and I changed it lol. Took out Lennox and inserted Evander before Lopez. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I want to place Pea #1. I don't know, man.

I hate ranking Lopez in anything :lol1:

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 09:42 PM
I hate ranking Lopez in anything :lol1:

Yeah man, he's so hard to pin down! Never moved up to the bigger challenges and beat a lot of mediocre opponents. But he was brilliant in the ring, was undefeated forever and fought two great bouts against Alvarez. I consider the first great as well because he was out gunned and in deep sh*t but was using every last ounce of guile to stay in the fight. The rematch was just crazy.

Steak
05-18-2011, 09:43 PM
Lopez is very difficult to rank for a number of reasons. Theres no doubt he was tremendously talented and dominant, and extremely accomplished...but he does have a few things going against him as well. Minimumweight wasnt recongnised for a few years and barely while Finito was in it, and historically and presently its arguably the weakest division of all time. also Lopez didnt unify all the belts, did he?

but at the same time you want to give him credit...he was, after all, a great fighter.

what a mess.

crold1
05-18-2011, 09:52 PM
I'm with everyone who has Pea #1, and by a bit. Best fighter since Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran were peak. After that, I'd probably go (off the top of my head):

Jones Jr.
Pacquiao
Hopkins
Holyfield
Mayweather
Chavez (Still GREAT from 90-93)
Barrera (or Morales, or Marquez...ask me tomorrow)
Toney (warts and all)
Lopez or Calzaghe (similar title #'s; Lopez better technically, Calzaghe fought better opp IMO, a place both were lacking comparatively); Tito could also squeeze in here.

I cheated and squeezed in like 14 guys. LOL

Walt Liquor
05-18-2011, 09:52 PM
I wouldn't rate Whitaker #1 if we're talking 1990 to present. Pacquiao, Jones, etc. would vehemently disagree. It's real tough to make a pound for pound list but if I did (don't quote me on this, it may change as soon as tomorrow), I'd rate them from 1990-present as:

1. Roy Jones Jr.
Jones was the Fighter of the Decade of the 90's over Whitaker and deservedly so. I don't count the losses post-Tarver III too much as, after that(and maybe before), he was a spent force. He was unbeatable in his prime, rarely losing a minute, let alone a round. It wasn't a brief period either, he dominated for about a decade. I think you can make a strong case for Pacquiao here but my vote goes to Jones.

2. Manny Pacquiao
Pacquiao would hover around the level of Barrera and Morales on this list if his run ended at 130 but it didn't. While his wins in higher divisions don't rank with his wins in the lower ones, stoppages of Cotto and Hatton - particularly how it was done - were highly impressive and catapult him to the upper crust of this list. He's still not done and I think one or two more big wins (he has the opponents around him to do it) would put him on a list of names far smaller than this one.

3. Pernell Whitaker
Pea may have the glossiest wins on this list (Nelson, Chavez, McGirt, Oscar IMO). That's a pretty sick list of names. But he was also very uneven during that time following the Chavez win. The head-scratching performances against Rivera and the Hurtado bout was pretty bad. But if we went back another five years, he'd be #1 on this list easy.

4. Bernard Hopkins
I may be underrating Bernard a tad but I think we'll have a better idea of where he stands following this weekend. If he finally shows his age then I'll leave him at #4. I think his resume speaks for itself and while I'm not his biggest fan, he has the utmost respect from me. The Tito win was the stuff of legends; that performance was masterful. And that was his record breaking 14th defense of the middleweight crown. At 36. And he defended it about five more times. Then the leap to LHW to upset a top three pound for pounder in Tarver sealed his legacy as an ATG. It's incredible he still isn't done.

5. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Floyd has the advantage of being undefeated but it's not a hollow 'O', his dossier is pretty strong. At 130-135, he could hang and beat nearly anyone. His stay at 140 was mediocre but his resume at 147 is solid. I suspect he has only one more great fight left in him (if that) so he may want to make it count. A win over Martinez/Pacquiao would push him to the top slot.

6. Erik Morales

7. Felix Trinidad

8. Marco Antonio Barrera

9. Evander Holyfield

10. Ricardo Lopez

i kept evander out b/c it doesn't include his CW career

Walt Liquor
05-18-2011, 09:54 PM
Sick list and I enjoyed the explanations, but I think Whitaker has to be number one or 2 the very least, he has by far the best secondary wins out of everyone, he beat better contenders through that time period to compliment those "glossy wins". Though he looked **** against Rivera and Hurtado he still holds legitimate wins over them and it still counts to his resume. I also think its pretty clear that he has the least embarrassing losses of the 3 mentioned, though I don't put too much stock into them, it counts for something. in addition, he probably has the single best win (I don't give a **** about the judges Trojan), it has to be Pea for me.

All props to you for making the list, I don't think I could commit to a top 10.

throws **** at ruben

Walt Liquor
05-18-2011, 09:54 PM
You can't give fantasy wins one way and not give them the other way A resume of Morales x3 Hamed Mckinney is FAR greater then Chavez(above 140) Nelson(above 130) Vasquez Mcgirt x2 and you know it.

Math is not your strong suit :dunce:

1.1991
2.1992
3.1993
4.1994
5.1995
6.1996
7.1997
8.1998
9.1999
10.2000
11.2001
12.2002
13.2003
14.2004
15.2005
16.2006
17.2007
18.2008
19.2009
20.2010
21. 2011

2011 not over yet homey

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 09:56 PM
i kept evander out b/c it doesn't include his CW career

True that but he had two huge upsets at HW during the 1990's, one of them ranking up there with the very best and resurrected his career multiple times.

crold1
05-18-2011, 09:57 PM
I wouldn't rate Whitaker #1 if we're talking 1990 to present. Pacquiao, Jones, etc. would vehemently disagree. It's real tough to make a pound for pound list but if I did (don't quote me on this, it may change as soon as tomorrow), I'd rate them from 1990-present as:

1. Roy Jones Jr.
Jones was the Fighter of the Decade of the 90's over Whitaker and deservedly so. I don't count the losses post-Tarver III too much as, after that(and maybe before), he was a spent force. He was unbeatable in his prime, rarely losing a minute, let alone a round. It wasn't a brief period either, he dominated for about a decade. I think you can make a strong case for Pacquiao here but my vote goes to Jones.

2. Manny Pacquiao
Pacquiao would hover around the level of Barrera and Morales on this list if his run ended at 130 but it didn't. While his wins in higher divisions don't rank with his wins in the lower ones, stoppages of Cotto and Hatton - particularly how it was done - were highly impressive and catapult him to the upper crust of this list. He's still not done and I think one or two more big wins (he has the opponents around him to do it) would put him on a list of names far smaller than this one.

3. Pernell Whitaker
Pea may have the glossiest wins on this list (Nelson, Chavez, McGirt, Oscar IMO). That's a pretty sick list of names. But he was also very uneven during that time following the Chavez win. The head-scratching performances against Rivera and the Hurtado bout was pretty bad. But if we went back another five years, he'd be #1 on this list easy.

4. Bernard Hopkins
I may be underrating Bernard a tad but I think we'll have a better idea of where he stands following this weekend. If he finally shows his age then I'll leave him at #4. I think his resume speaks for itself and while I'm not his biggest fan, he has the utmost respect from me. The Tito win was the stuff of legends; that performance was masterful. And that was his record breaking 14th defense of the middleweight crown. At 36. And he defended it about five more times. Then the leap to LHW to upset a top three pound for pounder in Tarver sealed his legacy as an ATG. It's incredible he still isn't done.

5. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Floyd has the advantage of being undefeated but it's not a hollow 'O', his dossier is pretty strong. At 130-135, he could hang and beat nearly anyone. His stay at 140 was mediocre but his resume at 147 is solid. I suspect he has only one more great fight left in him (if that) so he may want to make it count. A win over Martinez/Pacquiao would push him to the top slot.

6. Erik Morales

7. Felix Trinidad

8. Marco Antonio Barrera

9. Evander Holyfield

10. Ricardo Lopez

Your timeline is a wee bit off...Whitaker was uneven around Rivera...that's 96-ish? From 1990-95, he might have lost six rounds and that includes almost all his defining wins.

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 09:59 PM
Your timeline is a wee bit off...Whitaker was uneven around Rivera...that's 96-ish? From 1990-95, he might have lost six rounds and that includes almost all his defining wins.

I never said specifically 90-95, I just looked at his performances that entire decade, including both halves. I see what you're saying though.

Walt Liquor
05-18-2011, 10:01 PM
True that but he had two huge upsets at HW during the 1990's, one of them ranking up there with the very best and resurrected his career multiple times.

i heard that, but he caught so many damn l's and didn't do all that much from 2000 on....


you have morales higher than i thought you would too...

crold1
05-18-2011, 10:01 PM
I never said specifically 90-95, I just looked at his performances that entire decade, including both halves. I see what you're saying though.

I'm overstating the rounds a bit...he lost at least four to McGirt the first time. But those were the defining years for him, his absolute peak. He had his bad years then too...I weigh that versus many others going through their development during his years.

Pea was that dude.

jrosales13
05-18-2011, 10:02 PM
I'm with everyone who has Pea #1, and by a bit. Best fighter since Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran were peak. After that, I'd probably go (off the top of my head):

Jones Jr.
Pacquiao
Hopkins
Holyfield
Mayweather
Chavez (Still GREAT from 90-93)
Barrera (or Morales, or Marquez...ask me tomorrow)
Toney (warts and all)
Lopez or Calzaghe (similar title #'s; Lopez better technically, Calzaghe fought better opp IMO, a place both were lacking comparatively); Tito could also squeeze in here.

I cheated and squeezed in like 14 guys. LOL


Well if Calzaghe is on there. Then I think Tito is clearly on there. I just can't see how Calzaghe can be over Tito.

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 10:06 PM
i heard that, but he caught so many damn l's and didn't do all that much from 2000 on....


you have morales higher than i thought you would too...

Morales is the truth, man! Knocking out Zaragoza at 21 and off he went. Minus the first bout against Barrera, he was really something else. I think at one point he went on a tear of fights that had me wondering if he should be ranked in the top three pound for pound. And the Pacquiao win was a legacy sealer. Truly a great victory. Who would you rate higher that I didn't?

True that on Evander. He really did nothing after the second Lewis fight (wait, don't forget the Rahman bout! :lol1:) but he delivered magnificence at the most opportune times in the nineties.

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 10:08 PM
I'm overstating the rounds a bit...he lost at least four to McGirt the first time. But those were the defining years for him, his absolute peak. He had his bad years then too...I weigh that versus many others going through their development during his years.

Pea was that dude.

Agreed, man. Pea was definitely in his prime from 90-95, when his physical and mental peak met. I feel he had a couple more years left in him that he probably sniffed away but to me, he's top ten all-time. I'm not good at those kind of lists though.

crold1
05-18-2011, 10:09 PM
Well if Calzaghe is on there. Then I think Tito is clearly on there. I just can't see how Calzaghe can be over Tito.

I'm not sure he is. They're around the same ball park, both great on long reigns and a key awesome, but truncated, run. Tito would have been higher, probably, had King not sat on him for years (or foiled against a younger Hopkins earlier). Vargas would be the edger for him. Outside that truly great win, there's a lot of somewhat hollow numbers. A bad win versus Oscar, Campas and Carr (average with 0's), and he got humiliated against technical masters like Wright and Hopkins...his comp was better than Joe's but Joe was a smarter fighter IMO. I was a huge Tito fan (he was a party centerpiece in college) but I see a lot of limitations.

As I said a few years ago in a piece on Calzaghe, I think a case can be made for him in the back half of a top 100 based on what he accomplished at 168. The same can be said for Tito.

A case can be made.

Though to be honest, the more ways I look at these things, the more I'm not sure either even makes that cut. This is the debate about just the last twenty years...spread it out and one could do a top 200 and still miss some awesome.

God I love boxing.

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 10:11 PM
I'm not sure he is. They're around the same ball park, both great on long reigns and a key awesome, but truncated, run. Tito would have been higher, probably, had King not sat on him for years (or foiled against a younger Hopkins earlier). Vargas would be the edger for him. Outside that truly great win, there's a lot of somewhat hollow numbers. A bad win versus Oscar, Campas and Carr (average with 0's), and he got humiliated against technical masters like Wright and Hopkins...his comp was better than Joe's but Joe was a smarter fighter IMO. I was a huge Tito fan (he was a party centerpiece in college) but I see a lot of limitations.
If the Oscar win is a bad one for Tito then so is the Hopkins win for Calzaghe.

Walt Liquor
05-18-2011, 10:12 PM
Morales is the truth, man! Knocking out Zaragoza at 21 and off he went. Minus the first bout against Barrera, he was really something else. I think at one point he went on a tear of fights that had me wondering if he should be ranked in the top three pound for pound. And the Pacquiao win was a legacy sealer. Truly a great victory. Who would you rate higher that I didn't?

True that on Evander. He really did nothing after the second Lewis fight (wait, don't forget the Rahman bout! :lol1:) but he delivered magnificence at the most opportune times in the nineties.

like i said on my list, the raheem thing really sticks with me- never avenging the loss etc....i had barrera higher and i thought barrera was top 3 pfp for a couple years there, especially cuz i thought he won the first fight of the trilogy

crold1
05-18-2011, 10:15 PM
like i said on my list, the raheem thing really sticks with me- never avenging the loss etc....i had barrera higher and i thought barrera was top 3 pfp for a couple years there, especially cuz i thought he won the first fight of the trilogy

I think you're being too hard. Coming off the best win of his life, and after seven-plus years of brutal wars, Morales stunk one out against a stinker. It happens (though an argument can also be made he NEVER was put with that style in his prime either...lots of guys aren't and who cares? Raheem's style is kryptonite for the eyes). He was boxing finest warrior since Saad in my opinion and that counts for a lot.

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 10:18 PM
like i said on my list, the raheem thing really sticks with me- never avenging the loss etc....i had barrera higher and i thought barrera was top 3 pfp for a couple years there, especially cuz i thought he won the first fight of the trilogy

The Pacquiao win was his last gasp. Don't put too much stock in the Raheem bout as Morales was headed to the retirement home after that.

crold1
05-18-2011, 10:19 PM
If the Oscar win is a bad one for Tito then so is the Hopkins win for Calzaghe.

I disagree. I think the Hopkins win was ugly but clear. I had Tito up a point on Oscar at the end of 12 (the first four rounds are much close than most recall) but he really didn't do much. He just did more than nothing over the last 3 1/2. That was a bad win, hurting both guys at night's end.

That said, Tito stepped up much earlier and that counts for something. Like I said, six of one, half dozen another. They're in the same ball park IMO.

Walt Liquor
05-18-2011, 10:21 PM
I think you're being too hard. Coming off the best win of his life, and after seven-plus years of brutal wars, Morales stunk one out against a stinker. It happens (though an argument can also be made he NEVER was put with that style in his prime either...lots of guys aren't and who cares? Raheem's style is kryptonite for the eyes). He was boxing finest warrior since Saad in my opinion and that counts for a lot.

thats my prob, and the fact that he never sought to avenge or fought anyone with even close to a similar style to overcome that black eye..i mena to me, morales pretty much got shut out then acted like it never happened

the last 21 yrs is so deep to me at the top 10, i have this thing about the way morales went out like that. now if we're talking about my favorite fighters since 1990, its a different story

Walt Liquor
05-18-2011, 10:22 PM
The Pacquiao win was his last gasp. Don't put too much stock in the Raheem bout as Morales was headed to the retirement home after that.

damn junior jones and mccoullough wins were brutal....

IMDAZED
05-18-2011, 10:28 PM
I disagree. I think the Hopkins win was ugly but clear. I had Tito up a point on Oscar at the end of 12 (the first four rounds are much close than most recall) but he really didn't do much. He just did more than nothing over the last 3 1/2. That was a bad win, hurting both guys at night's end.

That said, Tito stepped up much earlier and that counts for something. Like I said, six of one, half dozen another. They're in the same ball park IMO.

You had Tito winning. A lot of people had Oscar winning. You had Calzaghe winning and a lot of people had Hopkins winning.

$BloodyNate$
05-18-2011, 11:38 PM
Honestly, if Hopkins does beat Dawson and the winner of Bute vs Super 6 winner, I think he'd probably become #1 and maybe even have a claim at top 25 ATG.

JAB5239
05-19-2011, 05:14 AM
I wouldn't rate Whitaker #1 if we're talking 1990 to present. Pacquiao, Jones, etc. would vehemently disagree. It's real tough to make a pound for pound list but if I did (don't quote me on this, it may change as soon as tomorrow), I'd rate them from 1990-present as:

1. Roy Jones Jr.
Jones was the Fighter of the Decade of the 90's over Whitaker and deservedly so. I don't count the losses post-Tarver III too much as, after that(and maybe before), he was a spent force. He was unbeatable in his prime, rarely losing a minute, let alone a round. It wasn't a brief period either, he dominated for about a decade. I think you can make a strong case for Pacquiao here but my vote goes to Jones.

2. Manny Pacquiao
Pacquiao would hover around the level of Barrera and Morales on this list if his run ended at 130 but it didn't. While his wins in higher divisions don't rank with his wins in the lower ones, stoppages of Cotto and Hatton - particularly how it was done - were highly impressive and catapult him to the upper crust of this list. He's still not done and I think one or two more big wins (he has the opponents around him to do it) would put him on a list of names far smaller than this one.

3. Pernell Whitaker
Pea may have the glossiest wins on this list (Nelson, Chavez, McGirt, Oscar IMO). That's a pretty sick list of names. But he was also very uneven during that time following the Chavez win. The head-scratching performances against Rivera and the Hurtado bout was pretty bad. But if we went back another five years, he'd be #1 on this list easy.

4. Bernard Hopkins
I may be underrating Bernard a tad but I think we'll have a better idea of where he stands following this weekend. If he finally shows his age then I'll leave him at #4. I think his resume speaks for itself and while I'm not his biggest fan, he has the utmost respect from me. The Tito win was the stuff of legends; that performance was masterful. And that was his record breaking 14th defense of the middleweight crown. At 36. And he defended it about five more times. Then the leap to LHW to upset a top three pound for pounder in Tarver sealed his legacy as an ATG. It's incredible he still isn't done.

5. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Floyd has the advantage of being undefeated but it's not a hollow 'O', his dossier is pretty strong. At 130-135, he could hang and beat nearly anyone. His stay at 140 was mediocre but his resume at 147 is solid. I suspect he has only one more great fight left in him (if that) so he may want to make it count. A win over Martinez/Pacquiao would push him to the top slot.

6. Erik Morales

7. Felix Trinidad

8. Marco Antonio Barrera

9. Evander Holyfield

10. Ricardo Lopez

Excellent list!

IronDanHamza
05-19-2011, 09:39 AM
2011 not over yet homey

He doesn't get it.

I wasn't going to justify it with a response but since you have I will go along and do it.

He is counting 91-92 as 2 years, when its 1 year.

My nephew was born in July of 1991, July this year, is his 20th Birthday. Which why I knew that that timeframe is 20 years off the bat.

But what do you expect? The guy ranks Virgill Hill ahead of Pernell Whitaker.

IronDanHamza
05-19-2011, 09:47 AM
I wouldn't rate Whitaker #1 if we're talking 1990 to present. Pacquiao, Jones, etc. would vehemently disagree. It's real tough to make a pound for pound list but if I did (don't quote me on this, it may change as soon as tomorrow), I'd rate them from 1990-present as:

1. Roy Jones Jr.
Jones was the Fighter of the Decade of the 90's over Whitaker and deservedly so. I don't count the losses post-Tarver III too much as, after that(and maybe before), he was a spent force. He was unbeatable in his prime, rarely losing a minute, let alone a round. It wasn't a brief period either, he dominated for about a decade. I think you can make a strong case for Pacquiao here but my vote goes to Jones.

2. Manny Pacquiao
Pacquiao would hover around the level of Barrera and Morales on this list if his run ended at 130 but it didn't. While his wins in higher divisions don't rank with his wins in the lower ones, stoppages of Cotto and Hatton - particularly how it was done - were highly impressive and catapult him to the upper crust of this list. He's still not done and I think one or two more big wins (he has the opponents around him to do it) would put him on a list of names far smaller than this one.

3. Pernell Whitaker
Pea may have the glossiest wins on this list (Nelson, Chavez, McGirt, Oscar IMO). That's a pretty sick list of names. But he was also very uneven during that time following the Chavez win. The head-scratching performances against Rivera and the Hurtado bout was pretty bad. But if we went back another five years, he'd be #1 on this list easy.

4. Bernard Hopkins
I may be underrating Bernard a tad but I think we'll have a better idea of where he stands following this weekend. If he finally shows his age then I'll leave him at #4. I think his resume speaks for itself and while I'm not his biggest fan, he has the utmost respect from me. The Tito win was the stuff of legends; that performance was masterful. And that was his record breaking 14th defense of the middleweight crown. At 36. And he defended it about five more times. Then the leap to LHW to upset a top three pound for pounder in Tarver sealed his legacy as an ATG. It's incredible he still isn't done.

5. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Floyd has the advantage of being undefeated but it's not a hollow 'O', his dossier is pretty strong. At 130-135, he could hang and beat nearly anyone. His stay at 140 was mediocre but his resume at 147 is solid. I suspect he has only one more great fight left in him (if that) so he may want to make it count. A win over Martinez/Pacquiao would push him to the top slot.

6. Erik Morales

7. Felix Trinidad

8. Marco Antonio Barrera

9. Evander Holyfield

10. Ricardo Lopez

I like this list.

Walt Liquor
05-19-2011, 10:16 AM
He doesn't get it.

I wasn't going to justify it with a response but since you have I will go along and do it.

He is counting 91-92 as 2 years, when its 1 year.

My nephew was born in July of 1991, July this year, is his 20th Birthday. Which why I knew that that timeframe is 20 years off the bat.

But what do you expect? The guy ranks Virgill Hill ahead of Pernell Whitaker.

Everyone's been laughing about this but I didn't see it in the thread. I'd like to so I can get a chuckle too....

$BloodyNate$
05-19-2011, 10:18 AM
The most impressive thing about Whitaker that for me puts him above everybody else is the Vasquez win. Manny needed catchweights against Oscar, Cotto, and Margarito. Not to mention Margarito was not a top 154 at the time.

Whitaker went up and fought the #1 guy at Jr Middleweight AT 154 who only have one lost from a DQ in 54 fights and beat him. Was constantly in the top 10 all through the 90's until 1999. Was top 3 at 154 from 1993-1996 not to mention #1 when Pernell beat him.

He took out the best guy when he moved up to his highest weight class unlike Pac & Roy Jones when they got their highest title weight. Not to mention he was exceptionally dominate at his weight class and was always looking for best fight out there unlike the fools these days pussay footing around.

IronDanHamza
05-19-2011, 10:44 AM
The most impressive thing about Whitaker that for me puts him above everybody else is the Vasquez win. Manny needed catchweights against Oscar, Cotto, and Margarito. Not to mention Margarito was not a top 154 at the time.

Whitaker went up and fought the #1 guy at Jr Middleweight AT 154 who only have one lost from a DQ in 54 fights and beat him. Was constantly in the top 10 all through the 90's until 1999. Was top 3 at 154 from 1993-1996 not to mention #1 when Pernell beat him.

He took out the best guy when he moved up to his highest weight class unlike Pac & Roy Jones when they got their highest title weight. Not to mention he was exceptionally dominate at his weight class and was always looking for best fight out there unlike the fools these days pussay footing around.

Oscar wasn't a catchweight but he was dead at 147 so your point still remains.

That's a valid point about Pea but I would still personally have him #2 to Roy Jones.

I haven't devised a list for this time frame but I have no doubt Roy Jones would be #1 solely on what he did in the 90's.
It's unmatched, IMO. He was THE fighter of the 90's.

IronDanHamza
05-19-2011, 10:47 AM
Everyone's been laughing about this but I didn't see it in the thread. I'd like to so I can get a chuckle too....

It was in a thread he made about his all time great rankings.

Should be in his thread history.

strykr619
05-19-2011, 10:56 AM
The most impressive thing about Whitaker that for me puts him above everybody else is the Vasquez win. Manny needed catchweights against Oscar, Cotto, and Margarito. Not to mention Margarito was not a top 154 at the time.

Whitaker went up and fought the #1 guy at Jr Middleweight AT 154 who only have one lost from a DQ in 54 fights and beat him. Was constantly in the top 10 all through the 90's until 1999. Was top 3 at 154 from 1993-1996 not to mention #1 when Pernell beat him.

He took out the best guy when he moved up to his highest weight class unlike Pac & Roy Jones when they got their highest title weight. Not to mention he was exceptionally dominate at his weight class and was always looking for best fight out there unlike the fools these days pussay footing around.

To discount 3 of Pacquiao's fight's because of a catchweight is bs considering Pacquaio is fighting outside of his true weight class (you know fighters don't fight at their actual weight).

I mean if we want to do that then the SRL-Hagler fight was bs then because it was at a catchweight.

NChristo
05-19-2011, 11:15 AM
To discount 3 of Pacquiao's fight's because of a catchweight is bs considering Pacquaio is fighting outside of his true weight class (you know fighters don't fight at their actual weight).

I mean if we want to do that then the SRL-Hagler fight was bs then because it was at a catchweight.

160 is a catchweight ?.


:thinking:

Walt Liquor
05-19-2011, 12:24 PM
It was in a thread he made about his all time great rankings.

Should be in his thread history.

I found it:

James Toney











Virgil Hill/Winky Wright/Shane Mosley









Perneall Whitaker/Antonio Margarito

jjbj2
05-19-2011, 12:31 PM
There is no excuse for not having Floyd in there. You didnt to avoid confrontation.

My eyes imediately went to Hamed. Good Laud! You never heard of....or.....Didnt watch boxing?

Prince Naseem Hamed was very popular among Indians and Pakistanis in New York City. I lived in Queens where the population of that borough is very mixed from Indians, Pakistanis, Guyanese, Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaicans, and what have you.

So while, Latinos (Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Nicaraguans, Colombians and others) were talking about Oscar, Tito, and other popular Hispanic fighters those Indians, Pakistanis, and others were talking about Hamed. As I said, my list isn't about skills or resumes but based on popularity.

Think about it: Hamed's first fight in the U.S. was in Madison Square Garden, New York City. And his next fight, was in New Jersey a bridge away from New York City again. So, Hamed was very popular in New York City among the people it mattered who also lived in my borough (Queens).

Here is a news article written back in 1997:

http://articles.philly.com/1997-12-19/sports/25555889_1_prince-naseem-hamed-hot-dog-world-boxing-organization-title

Here is a collection of New York Times news article about Prince Naseem Hamed:

http://www.nytimes.com/keyword/kevin-kelley

I can do the same for Tito Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya the newspapers are a lot. New York Post, New York Daily News, New York Times, and other major newspapers covered those two fighters a lot since the population of New York City is made up of Hispanics from Brooklyn, Bronx, to Queens.

SCtrojansbaby
05-19-2011, 01:47 PM
The best has to be Whitaker. He has the best single win of the last 20 years over Chavez, and has a plethora of other high quality wins to back it up, like Ramirez, Nelson, Vasquez, McGirt, etc.

add in the fact that he just might deserve a win over prime DLH despite being past prime and coked up and personally its pretty clear cut for me.

I put most my emphasis on quality of wins, and there I think Whitaker just has too much going for him.


A win that didn't actually happen against Chavez at a weight Chavez clearly was not built for is better then:

Roy Jones dominating James Toney
Chavez shutting out the undefeated Hector Camacho
Pacquiao knocking out Barrera

You can not be serious

RubenSonny
05-19-2011, 05:31 PM
A win that didn't actually happen against Chavez at a weight Chavez clearly was not built for is better then:

Roy Jones dominating James Toney
Chavez shutting out the undefeated Hector Camacho
Pacquiao knocking out Barrera

You can not be serious

You give Marquez a lot of credit for beating Too Sharp at bantam in which he did nothing so stfu...

fitefanSHO
05-19-2011, 05:59 PM
1. Ricardo Lopez
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Manny Pacquiao
5. Floyd Mayweather
6. Roy Jones
7. Joe Calzaghe
8. Pernell Whitaker
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Terry Norris

Tough list to make, subject to change. :boxing:

SBleeder
05-19-2011, 06:08 PM
1. Ricardo Lopez
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Manny Pacquiao
5. Floyd Mayweather
6. Roy Jones
7. Joe Calzaghe
8. Pernell Whitaker
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Terry Norris

Tough list to make, subject to change. :boxing:
^^^
This man knows what he's talking about.

Anyone who doesn't have Ricardo Lopez in the top 5 of the last 30 years has likely never even seen him fight.

Walt Liquor
05-19-2011, 08:14 PM
^^^
This man knows what he's talking about.

Anyone who doesn't have Ricardo Lopez in the top 5 of the last 30 years has likely never even seen him fight.

finito at #1 is a little farfetched IMO.......he was a great fighter for sure, but he has a little case of the what if's..

sweetpea87
05-19-2011, 08:18 PM
I'm not good at making lists and ranking and all that, but the one thing I can say is Pernell Whitaker #1!!!!!!!!!!!!!

$BloodyNate$
05-19-2011, 11:41 PM
Oscar wasn't a catchweight but he was dead at 147 so your point still remains.

That's a valid point about Pea but I would still personally have him #2 to Roy Jones.

I haven't devised a list for this time frame but I have no doubt Roy Jones would be #1 solely on what he did in the 90's.
It's unmatched, IMO. He was THE fighter of the 90's.

Yeah and thata a big problem for me too that he fought Oscar at 147 but then has to make Cotto drop an extra 2 pounds which does matter since Cotto moved up from 140 because he couldn't hold the weight good, so putting closer towards that I think puts an effect on him. Pac might have still won but that still presents a problem.

I just think it's so amazing Pernell goes up to 154, at that weight, and beats the best guy there. While Roy Jones had to beat Ruiz & Pac had to pick on a shot Margarito who couldn't even put away a scrub in mexico, who was probably plastering too. Not to mention he didn't do it at 154.

Though I think Roy's win over James Toney is probably the best win of the 90's, I think Pernell fought the toughest opposition on the daily basis but I don't have a problem with either guy being #1 because they both pretty much were the 90's although Roy Jones WAS boxing back in the late 90's.

I think The Hopkins win though is kind of like Jack Johnsons win over Sam Langford. I think except Hopkins wasn't outweigh'd by much, but similar in the fact Hopkins was still green. I think too this day Hopkins finally hit his prime 2-3 years after. He got better with age although I would still say it's a B level win for Roy.

To discount 3 of Pacquiao's fight's because of a catchweight is bs considering Pacquaio is fighting outside of his true weight class (you know fighters don't fight at their actual weight).

I mean if we want to do that then the SRL-Hagler fight was bs then because it was at a catchweight.

The Oscar win will never be good regardless, I mean it was a good win, but it's not some world class level win.

What really chaps my ass is how come he fought Oscar at 147 but not Cotto?
That's fishy.

Margarito was like a C level win because the man was shot. PERIOD.

SCtrojansbaby
05-20-2011, 12:00 AM
You give Marquez a lot of credit for beating Too Sharp at bantam in which he did nothing so stfu...

I give Marquez the proper amount of credit as do I Whitaker the difference is Marquez actually beat Johnson Chavez is a fantasy win.

DeepSleep
05-20-2011, 04:18 AM
In no particular order here are the names that pop into my head:

Clear Cut:
Whitaker
B-Hop
Jones Jr.
Mayweather
Pacquaio

Next 5:
MAB
Holyfield
Mosley
Morales
JMM

Man it gets really tough having to pick after the obvious 5...

As good as Lopez was his resume is much weaker than the rest of the guys on listed. On my grading rubric it's better to try fight the best and risk a loss than fight sub-par competition and roll like Lopez did.

fight_professor
05-20-2011, 08:19 PM
RJJ, PBF, Manny, Hopkins, PW, Toney.... gets tough after. Maybe , Oscar, MAB, Erik Morales, Joe Calzaghe, Lewis

It's hard for HW to top such lists, they are seldom the most skilled.

$BloodyNate$
05-22-2011, 12:55 AM
B-Hop should be #1.

JAB5239
05-22-2011, 07:48 AM
B-Hop should be #1.

I think Jones, Whitaker and Manny are all above him.