View Full Version : Roberto Duran's resume outside of Leonard 1


SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 04:08 PM
Next best wins

1.DeJesus 3
2.Marcel
3.Buchannon
4.DeJesus 2
5.Palomino

How far would he drop if Leonard 1 never happend?

bklynboy
05-16-2011, 04:13 PM
Next best wins

1.DeJesus 3
2.Marcel
3.Buchannon
4.DeJesus 2
5.Palomino

How far would he drop if Leonard 1 never happend?

It depends if he stayed at lightweight and continued blowing out opponents. Of course he had trouble making welterweight so making lightweight is probably out of the question.

He clearly he did not have the same punch at welterweight that he had at lightweight. Pac has kept his power. Duran didn't.

He would drop a bit - going up in weight and beating an ATG counts.

SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 04:20 PM
It depends if he stayed at lightweight and continued blowing out opponents. Of course he had trouble making welterweight so making lightweight is probably out of the question.

He clearly he did not have the same punch at welterweight that he had at lightweight. Pac has kept his power. Duran didn't.

He would drop a bit - going up in weight and beating an ATG counts.

Assume everything goes percisely the same except that fight doesn't happen.

IMO Duran goes from top 5 of the last 40 years to somewhere from 15-20

Boxing Bob
05-16-2011, 04:22 PM
ask Davey Moore and Barlkey if he had power above LW!

bklynboy
05-16-2011, 04:25 PM
Assume everything goes percisely the same except that fight doesn't happen.

IMO Duran goes from top 5 of the last 40 years to somewhere from 15-20

At first look - I have no argument with that. He would definitely drop out of the TOP 5 of the last 30 years. (although his best fights are now more than 30 years old).

Time sure flies.

Boxing Bob
05-16-2011, 04:26 PM
I think outside of Leonard 1, the Moore fight was his greatest accomplishment. Think about it Moore was undefeated, had every physical advantage, plus youth on his side and the fight was in his hometown. Duran whipped his azz with guts, boxing savy and a hard right hand. He ruined Moores career that night.

SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 04:33 PM
I think outside of Leonard 1, the Moore fight was his greatest accomplishment. Think about it Moore was undefeated, had every physical advantage, plus youth on his side and the fight was in his hometown. Duran whipped his azz with guts, boxing savy and a hard right hand. He ruined Moores career that night.


Would you rate Moore ahead of Palomino Marcel Dejesus or Buchannon as fighters? Or are you giving Duran more credit because he was an underdog?

bklynboy
05-16-2011, 04:40 PM
I think outside of Leonard 1, the Moore fight was his greatest accomplishment. Think about it Moore was undefeated, had every physical advantage, plus youth on his side and the fight was in his hometown. Duran whipped his azz with guts, boxing savy and a hard right hand. He ruined Moores career that night.

No doubt the Moore fight was great. (As a side note I was a big Duran fan and was cheering my a** off when he fought SRL the first time.) As good as the Moore and Barkley fights were -- he was not the same fighter. He was unbelievably relaxed in the ring and was able conserve energy that way, but his lack of conditioning hurt him, and of course he was getting older.

At the time I felt he should have retired after the Hagler fight - and definitely after the Hearns fight. Was he competitive afterwards? Hell yes. He was competitive in his 40s. He was what 45 or 46 when he fought Camacho? But still the speed, the relative power was gone. It's like watching Shaq or Kevin Garnet - still good, but a shaddow of what was.

Boxing Bob
05-16-2011, 05:18 PM
Trojan, do you think Duran was the underdog in the Palomino,Marcel, Any of the DeJesus fights,Buchanon fights? If you do , you are WRONG as usual!

SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 05:22 PM
Trojan, do you think Duran was the underdog in the Palomino,Marcel, Any of the DeJesus fights,Buchanon fights? If you do , you are WRONG as usual!


Where the hell did you get that from? I asked if he was giving Duran extra credit for beating Moore because Duran was an underdog in that fight not the other fights? You really need to work on your reading comprehension

Forza
05-16-2011, 06:06 PM
I've always said duran was overrated.

Let's remember he failed 2 more times against leonard, failed against hagler, failed against hearns.

bklynboy
05-16-2011, 06:34 PM
I've always said duran was overrated.

Let's remember he failed 2 more times against leonard, failed against hagler, failed against hearns.

Duran was a lightweight until he was about 28. He held the undisputed, unshared crown (not belt) for 5+ years cleared out the division. He then went up to welter and middleweight and was competitive into his 40s.

He's an ATG. The only questions are "who's above him at lightweight?" or "who's the best fighters in the last 50 years?"

House of Stone
05-16-2011, 06:55 PM
lol at you guys - duran is overated my ass :lol1: ... and the first thing ye do before discussing it is take away his best win, a win over one of the greatest fighters EVER in one of the greatest fights ever ... jeez its like if manny v floyd finally happened and manny got a totally awesome win and then 20 years later when assessing him ye say 'well lets just ignore that floyd fight there and say he is overrated.' And whats with nobody mentioning Barkley?? For that alone he is great ... a 37 year old totally past prime former lightweight steps up and beats a middleweight champ (a guy that stopped tommy hearns and gave Nunn all he could handle) ...you think manny or floyd are gonna step up and BEAT Martinez or sturm? Or better yet you think they are gonna wait a few years until their well shot and then step up and beat a middleweight champ?

Any one of the fab four is a champ in ANY era ... Duran may have been the weakest of the four but at lightweight especially he is certainly one of the greatest of all time.

lets take away frazier's win over ali while we're at it and call him overrated too oh and Bowe's wins over holyfield lol ... man look how crap Bowe's record would look without them i reckon that means he's overrated.

talip bin osman
05-16-2011, 07:29 PM
if his career stopped @ 135, he still would be regarded as one of the holy trinity of that weight class (along with the old master and the ghetto wizard)...

to be mentioned in the same sentence with these guys should be a proof enough how good he really was considering the depth and tradition of the lightweight division...

New England
05-16-2011, 09:43 PM
ask Davey Moore and Barlkey if he had power above LW!


add marvin hagler to that list


duran shook him up and hagler had an iron chin for a middleweight



he knocked davey moore clear across the ring


for the doubters:
if you don't think duran would have had the power to hurt manny's WW/ jr ww opponents (margarito[no head movement,] cotto, shot shane, zombie clottey, shot de la hoya, shot hatton,) you are wrong

LeG00N
05-16-2011, 09:47 PM
I've always said duran was overrated.

Let's remember he failed 2 more times against leonard, failed against hagler, failed against hearns.

why don't you mention he beat an undefeated prime Leonard ? that Hearns and Hagler couldn't even beat him once?

he was a light weight that went the distance with one of the greatest Middleweights of all time..

LeG00N
05-16-2011, 09:48 PM
Duran would kill Pacquiao at Lightweight and WW ....

Duran > Pacquiao

SCtrojansbaby
05-17-2011, 12:17 AM
Duran would kill Pacquiao at Lightweight and WW ....

Duran > Pacquiao


I agree Duran>Pacquiao but nobody in the history of boxing is above getting nailed by a fight changing Pacquiao straight left. Pacquiao vs Duran is a 50/50 fight if there ever was one.

talip bin osman
05-17-2011, 12:59 AM
I agree Duran>Pacquiao but nobody in the history of boxing is above getting nailed by a fight changing Pacquiao straight left. Pacquiao vs Duran is a 50/50 fight if there ever was one.

iran barkley who was a middleweight big enuf to compete as a light heavy by the time manos de piedra fought him nailed duran with a crushing left hook (his best punch) to momentarily stagger the panamanian in round 8...

duran stayed erect and still proceeded to fight back and finish the round strongly...

what makes u think a straight left from little manny would faze duran?

Barn
05-17-2011, 04:38 AM
Duran would beat Pacquiao because of the little subtleties in both his offense and his defence.

SCtrojansbaby
05-17-2011, 09:52 AM
iran barkley who was a middleweight big enuf to compete as a light heavy by the time manos de piedra fought him nailed duran with a crushing left hook (his best punch) to momentarily stagger the panamanian in round 8...

duran stayed erect and still proceeded to fight back and finish the round strongly...

what makes u think a straight left from little manny would faze duran?

With added weight your punch resistance usually goes up. Also a big heavy lumbering left hand is completely different then a Pacquiao lightning quick straight left that you don't see coming. NOBODY is above getting caught(and hurt) by a Pacquiao straight left.

studentofthegam
05-17-2011, 10:26 AM
No "Leonard/Duran 1" hmmmmm.........Maybe it would be possible to criticize some of Duran's bull**** like quitting and flashing without being under attack by BH's boxing royalty. But I'm not one to erase history to come up with my own truth and he did whoop tat ass so Duran is one of the greatest.

talip bin osman
05-17-2011, 10:29 AM
With added weight your punch resistance usually goes up. Also a big heavy lumbering left hand is completely different then a Pacquiao lightning quick straight left that you don't see coming. NOBODY is above getting caught(and hurt) by a Pacquiao straight left.

watch it urself man... at 8:53...

yes, it was big, it was heavy but it aint lumbering... on the contrary, it was quite swift and duran never saw it coming...

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2xe7-Ec5Y68" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

House of Stone
05-17-2011, 10:33 AM
watch it urself man... at 8:53...

yes, it was big, it was heavy but it aint lumbering... on the contrary, it was quite swift and duran never saw it coming...

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2xe7-Ec5Y68" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yup Duran kicked ass I wouldn't even bother debating too hard with someone who thinks otherwise ... if they don't realise Duran kicked ass by watching him err kick ass ... than they ain't gonna be swayed by posts on an internet forum.

SCtrojansbaby
05-17-2011, 10:37 AM
watch it urself man... at 8:53...

yes, it was big, it was heavy but it aint lumbering... on the contrary, it was quite swift and duran never saw it coming...

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2xe7-Ec5Y68" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


I have seen the fight before and now I see the punch you were talking about. Doesn't change that its a completely different kind punch then a Pacquiao straight left which can anybody can be caught and hurt by ANYBODY.

As I said its a 50/50 fight.

But the straight left is why I don't think anybody at any of the weights he fought at beats Pacquiao easily. That punch is a game changer and I don't think anybody could go 12 rounds without getting caught at some point.

Barn
05-17-2011, 10:45 AM
I have seen the fight before and now I see the punch you were talking about. Doesn't change that its a completely different kind punch then a Pacquiao straight left which can anybody can be caught and hurt by ANYBODY.

As I said its a 50/50 fight.

But the straight left is why I don't think anybody at any of the weights he fought at beats Pacquiao easily. That punch is a game changer and I don't think anybody could go 12 rounds without getting caught at some point.
Hagler would eat a Pac left hand then spit it out if he went to the JMW division in these modern times without same day weigh in.

SCtrojansbaby
05-17-2011, 10:56 AM
Hagler would eat a Pac left hand then spit it out if he went to the JMW division in these modern times without same day weigh in.


lol way to bring up the most extreme situation

BennyST
05-17-2011, 10:41 PM
I agree Duran>Pacquiao but nobody in the history of boxing is above getting nailed by a fight changing Pacquiao straight left. Pacquiao vs Duran is a 50/50 fight if there ever was one.

You're right in one sense. He could get nailed by it, but it wouldn't be a fight changing punch nor would he get hit by it very much at all. Duran has better defense than anyone Pac has ever fought and a greater chin than anyone he's ever fought. He's just a greater fighter than anyone currently in the sport and by far greater than anyone Pac has seen. However, Duran has faced greater fighters than Pac and won. In the same vein, you could ask what happens to Pac when he gets nailed by a perfect counter right hand by Duran or what happens when he has his body beaten upon brutally for the whole fight?

The one fighter that was able to break that chin was arguably the hardest single punch fighter in the history of the sport, at his peak, in his best division and Duran was tiny in comparison, and past his best when they fought.

Pac just doesn't have the right style to beat Duran who had the perfect style to beat Pac, imo. It's more like an 80-20 fight for me. You need to be a different style of fighter to beat Duran at his best than Pac was. The stuff that Pac would get raked with after having his big shots slipped would break him down over the fight. We've all seen what happens when he has someone who slips shots, counters shots, can box and fight equally as well and who has chin, stamina, power, skill. We haven't seen him in with anyone who had the stamina, skills, power, savvy, blah, blah, blah that Duran had. He would eat a counter right uppercut underneath the straight left, among others, all fight to the body and head and it would seriously take it's toll as well as make him stop throwing it with the consistency and commitment.

TAC602
12-19-2011, 11:21 PM
Duran's The Greatest Fighter of All-Time.

Or something close.

wmute
12-20-2011, 10:54 AM
Duran-Pac is so not a 50-50 fight...

New England
12-20-2011, 11:00 AM
Duran-Pac is so not a 50-50 fight...



lol if it is i'm betting everything on duran


silly bookies

GoogleMe
12-20-2011, 03:38 PM
add marvin hagler to that list


duran shook him up and hagler had an iron chin for a middleweight



he knocked davey moore clear across the ring


for the doubters:
if you don't think duran would have had the power to hurt manny's WW/ jr ww opponents (margarito[no head movement,] cotto, shot shane, zombie clottey, shot de la hoya, shot hatton,) you are wrong
If Duran fought today, then he'd be undisputed champ from LW to MW. (SMW would be too huge for him).

DiegoFuego
12-21-2011, 02:44 PM
I always laugh when people act like Duran frustrated the hell out of Leonard and beat him clearly. I think last I scored that fight, Leonard lost by a round, not these 3-4 round margins people come up with. If you judge on clean effective punching, Leonard has a great case for winning even that fight.

RubenSonny
12-21-2011, 04:33 PM
With added weight your punch resistance usually goes up. Also a big heavy lumbering left hand is completely different then a Pacquiao lightning quick straight left that you don't see coming. NOBODY is above getting caught(and hurt) by a Pacquiao straight left.

With exception to the case of a fighter being weight-drained, adding weight decreases your punch resistance.

GoogleMe
12-22-2011, 05:28 AM
With exception to the case of a fighter being weight-drained, adding weight decreases your punch resistance.
In most cases you become more stationary, and will therefor be hit at a higher percentage

BennyST
12-23-2011, 03:31 AM
I always laugh when people act like Duran frustrated the hell out of Leonard and beat him clearly. I think last I scored that fight, Leonard lost by a round, not these 3-4 round margins people come up with. If you judge on clean effective punching, Leonard has a great case for winning even that fight.

No, if you judge on hype and bias toward Leonard he lost by one point, if you judge on clean, effective punching and ring generalship, Duran won by 3 or 4 rounds.

Duran had, by far, the cleaner, harder punching in that fight. Clearly. He landed the straight right hand over and over and made Leonard miss a lot with the majority of his flurries. You probably think Leonard landed that bolo punch that made everyone cream...right? Go watch it again. It misses completely. That was the story of that fight. Leonard did his best work to the body probably, but again, Duran did better work.

There is no case of Leonard winning. However, he sure made it all different in the rematch. Doesn't change the first fight though.