View Full Version : Was Julio Cesar Chavez Lucky Through Out His Career?


Perfect Plex
05-16-2011, 02:33 PM
First of all I rate Chavez as one of the best ever and a true ATG. But I got thinking, would you class him as one of the luckiest ATG fighters?

Here's what am talking about.

Julio Cesar Chavez orginally lost his unbeaten record in Mexico after just 11 fights when he got DQ'd. But Chavez's manager at the time was also the part of the commission team and had the result overturned to a W.

Rocky Lockridge still claims he should of at least got a draw against Chavez when he lost on Majority Decision in Mexico.

Meldrick Taylor should been allowed to continue. By the time Chavez would of got over to Taylor and try to attack the TWO seconds would have been up. It's ruined Meldrick any way, so don't give me Chavez might of damaged him. Did Richard Steele do this because he was under Don King's payroll.

What if the shoe had been on the other foot and Chavez was leading on the cards with 2 seconds to go, would of Steel stopped Chavez? Not likely.

Chavez was invovled in one of the biggest robbries ever when he was CLEARLY outboxed over 12 one sided rounds by Pernell Whitaker. Whitaker won the fight without much trouble, but yet it was given draw.

Frankie Randall was starting to have his way with Chavez for a second time, but yet the fight was then stopped on a cut, when Randall clearly wanted to continue, and could of.

Miguel Angel Gonzalez also clearly beat Chavez over 12, but yet again they gave the fight a draw.

Now thats alot of luck to have in my opinion. Did Don King & Jose Suliman have referee's, judges, officials on the pay roll? To keep Chavez's record intact?

Julio Cesar Chavez is a ATG, but a very damn lucky one.

$BloodyNate$
05-16-2011, 02:51 PM
I don't think he's the top 50 ATG his fans would make him out to be but he was a pretty solid fighter. Although Taylor maybe could have survived but that was still damn impressive to comeback like that.

It seesm to run in the family though that they draw instead of lose hahaha still kinda rubs me the wrong way Whitaker got *****'d on when he obviously should have a world class fighter like Chavez on his resume.

He's a great fighter. He was pretty damn good but I don't think he's top 50 all time 25 fighter though.

IronDanHamza
05-16-2011, 03:04 PM
I must say from my experience the Julio Cesar Chavez fanbase were by far the most frustrating ones to deal with when he was the #1 guy.

That includes; Tyson, De La Hoya and later Mayweather and Pacquaio.

To me, it seems they really built the foundation of insane obsessive affection for a fighter and defensive feminine like nature if you didn't say he is the best fighter ever. It really was quite crazy, I had never seen anything that crazy from fans before. Now, It's a natural thing when fighters are on top. In the 90's Roy Jones was being compared to Robinson. Oscar was being called one of the best ever whilst he was undefeated, in 2007 Mayweather was being talked about as a Top 10 ATG by his obsessive fans, Pacquaio's obsessive fans are obviously a severe case today. I feel like the Chavez fanbase started this nonsense.

In terms of Chavez, he's a great fighter. No question about that.

But I agree, he was very very lucky at times and it's quite clear to me that Don King clearly had people paid off to make sure he won fights. I don't believe he did on all those examples but there was certainly something going on. I don't trust Don King alot of the time and some of those examples there was clearly something going on.

SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 03:12 PM
Rocky Lockridge... really?

Meldrick Taylor didn't respond to Steele after the knockdown they say its cause he was talking to his trainer either way Steele was in his rights to stop it.

Pernell Whitaker that fight should of never went past the 9th round Pernell landed at least 7 clean and blatant punches to Chavez's crotch. That is an undisputed fact. Its just goes to show that Pernell was not nearly as good as most thought that he could only get a draw against him after all those punches to the crotch. Not to mention Chavez moved up in weight to fight Pernell another advantage he had and still could only get a draw.

Both Randall and Chavez exchanged headbuts Randall was unlucky his headbutt is the one that caused the cut the rule is the rule if Randall would of gotten cut then Chavez would of lost a point tough luck.

Chavez was way past his prime who cares what happened against Gonzalez

Even if you give Chavez losses against Pernell and Randall his resume is still strong enough that he is an undisputed top 20 ATG.

RubenSonny
05-16-2011, 03:26 PM
I couldn't think of a fighter more consistently 'lucky' than him, nice shout on the Lockridge fight. I do consider him an ATG though and I respect his skills.

SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 04:58 PM
I couldn't think of a fighter more consistently 'lucky' than him, nice shout on the Lockridge fight. I do consider him an ATG though and I respect his skills.


As with all things you create your own luck. Also don't act like he didn't have some bad luck of his own no DQ in the lowblow fest vs Pernell Whitaker

joseph5620
05-16-2011, 05:06 PM
As with all things you create your own luck. Also don't act like he didn't have some bad luck of his own no DQ in the lowblow fest vs Pernell Whitaker




Whitaker retaliated with low blows after Chavez started hitting him in the hips and thighs. That's illegal if you didn't know that. The only difference is Whitaker didn't cry about it like Chavez always did when he got it back. Whitaker kept fighting and didn't complain..





I can post it for you to see for yourself to refresh your memory if you don't remember.

SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 05:11 PM
Whitaker retaliated with low blows after Chavez started hitting him in the hips and thighs. That's illegal if you didn't know that. The only difference is Whitaker didn't cry about it like Chavez always did when he got it back. Whitaker kept fighting and didn't complain..





I can post it for you to see for yourself to refresh your memory if you don't remember.


Chavez hit him on the thighs because Pernell likes to crouch real low to evade punches. If your going to crouch like that then you should expect to get hit on the thighs.

And there is a big difference between hitting the thighs and hitting the crotch. Crotch punches are infintely more debilitating.

joseph5620
05-16-2011, 05:17 PM
Chavez hit him on the thighs because Pernell likes to crouch real low to evade punches. If your going to crouch like that then you should expect to get hit on the thighs.

And there is a big difference between hitting the thighs and hitting the crotch. Crotch punches are infintely more debilitating.




Last time I checked crouching in the ring is legal. Shots to the thighs are not. Shots to the thighs, hitting below the belt. Both are illegal. You can make all of the excuses for your boy Chavez that you want but Whitaker schooled him and bullied him.

SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 05:27 PM
Last time I checked crouching in the ring is legal. Shots to the thighs are not. Shots to the thighs, hitting below the belt. Both are illegal. You can make all of the excuses for your boy Chavez that you want but Whitaker schooled him and bullied him.


My point is shots to the thighs are unavoidable though when a fighter like to crouch and as I said shots to the crotch are far more debilitating.

That said Pernell had Chavez just about completely debilitated by hitting him to the nuts and Chavez was coming up in weight to make the fight AND STILL all Pernell could pull off was a draw? Looks like your the one making excuses.

JAB5239
05-16-2011, 05:39 PM
Chavez hit him on the thighs because Pernell likes to crouch real low to evade punches. If your going to crouch like that then you should expect to get hit on the thighs.



My point is shots to the thighs are unavoidable though when a fighter like to crouch and as I said shots to the crotch are far more debilitating.
.

These posts make NO sense. If one crouches, do his thighs not become lower to the ground?

SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 05:43 PM
These posts make NO sense. If one crouches, do his thighs not become lower to the ground?


I thought it was obvious what I meant.

When Pernell crouches his head is where his thighs would normally be. Chavez anticipates him crouching and when he doesn't he ends up hitting him in the thighs

JAB5239
05-16-2011, 05:47 PM
I thought it was obvious what I meant.

When Pernell crouches his head is where his thighs would normally be. Chavez anticipates him crouching and when he doesn't he ends up hitting him in the thighs

That would be bending over. And as Joseph already pointed out, its not illegal.

SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 05:58 PM
That would be bending over. And as Joseph already pointed out, its not illegal.

LOL says the guy who thinks Roger Mayweather was a top 10 welterweight in the late 80s even though he didn't have single fight at the weight.

Barn
05-16-2011, 06:00 PM
My point is shots to the thighs are unavoidable though when a fighter like to crouch and as I said shots to the crotch are far more debilitating.

That said Pernell had Chavez just about completely debilitated by hitting him to the nuts and Chavez was coming up in weight to make the fight AND STILL all Pernell could pull off was a draw? Looks like your the one making excuses.

You are joking...right?

JAB5239
05-16-2011, 06:04 PM
LOL says the guy who thinks Roger Mayweather was a top 10 welterweight in the late 80s even though he didn't have single fight at the weight.

Lets get it straight son, I PROVED it! If you have a problem with The Rings ratings you should take it up with them. You keep avoiding my question.....do you think you know more and are better suited for the job than The Rings rating committee?

Boxing Bob
05-16-2011, 06:08 PM
SCtrojan always distorts the truth to justify his views. Chavez was an ATG, top 25 at least. That said Lockridge has no case he was beaten in a close contest, but Sweet Pea kicked his azz, not even close! You could say Chavez was lucky in the Taylor fight, but looking at his legs, face and eyes while the ref counted to him,maybe Taylor was the lucky one. The second Randall fight looked like it was turning Randalls way but sheet happens.

SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 06:12 PM
Lets get it straight son, I PROVED it! If you have a problem with The Rings ratings you should take it up with them. You keep avoiding my question.....do you think you know more and are better suited for the job than The Rings rating committee?


lol you proved nothing except that you are a lunatic who thinks anybody what rank a fighter top 10 that had never fought at the weight

joseph5620
05-16-2011, 06:17 PM
These posts make NO sense. If one crouches, do his thighs not become lower to the ground?






I was going to say the same thing but then decided there was no point.

JAB5239
05-16-2011, 06:17 PM
lol you proved nothing except that you are a lunatic who thinks anybody what rank a fighter top 10 that had never fought at the weight

Is it any different than Manny recently getting ranked and than a shot at a vacant 154 title? The ONLY difference is I would have been complaining had Roger been given an unjustified title shot without fighting at that weight, just as I did with Pac. Thoughts?

And it still doesn't change the FACT that he was ranked, does it?

SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 06:19 PM
Is it any different than Manny recently getting ranked and than a shot at a vacant 154 title? The ONLY difference is I would have been complaining had Roger been given an unjustified title shot without fighting at that weight, just as I did with Pac. Thoughts?


WTF are you talking about? Roger Mayweather didn't fight for a welterweight title until 1994

JAB5239
05-16-2011, 06:23 PM
WTF are you talking about? Roger Mayweather didn't fight for a welterweight title until 1994

That doesn't mean his ranking wasn't justified before than!

SCtrojansbaby
05-16-2011, 06:26 PM
That doesn't mean his ranking wasn't justified before than you moron!

Ok first off where are these rankings you keep on blabbering about?

Second nobody ranks somebody top 10 anticipating 5 years in advance

IronDanHamza
05-16-2011, 06:37 PM
Roger Mayweather had a few fight's at WW in the late 80's after he lost to Pernell Whitaker at LW, knocking out journey man and for some strange reason The Ring put him in their Top 10 Welterweight Rankings, maybe becase Roger Mayweather was a name and had initially moved to WW. He then down to Jr Welterweight and spent the rest of the 80's and early 90's there.

Roger Mayweather was not a Top Welterweight in the 80's, by a long shot.

Roger Mayweather was never a Top Welterweight in his entire career, infact.

JAB5239
05-16-2011, 06:39 PM
Ok first off where are these rankings you keep on blabbering about?

Second nobody ranks somebody top 10 anticipating 5 years in advance

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine%27s_Annual_Ratings:_1987

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine%27s_Annual_Ratings:_1988

Is there anything else I can help you with?

Barn
05-16-2011, 06:41 PM
http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine%27s_Annual_Ratings:_1987

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine%27s_Annual_Ratings:_1988

Is there anything else I can help you with?
Jab. I seriously don't know why you even respond to this guy. It's not like he's mis-informed he just has the inability to take in any information that he doesn't agree with.

Scott9945
05-16-2011, 06:45 PM
My point is shots to the thighs are unavoidable though when a fighter like to crouch and as I said shots to the crotch are far more debilitating.

That said Pernell had Chavez just about completely debilitated by hitting him to the nuts and Chavez was coming up in weight to make the fight AND STILL all Pernell could pull off was a draw? Looks like your the one making excuses.

You are not allowed to hit below the belt, whether they crouch or not. The rules are the same for the hips, thighs, and groin. And this is the first time I have ever heard this weak excuse for that shameful decision.

More and more you just seem like a fan who rationalizes everything to fit your agenda. The excuses are coming from you.

$BloodyNate$
05-16-2011, 06:45 PM
Pernell Whitaker that fight should of never went past the 9th round Pernell landed at least 7 clean and blatant punches to Chavez's crotch. That is an undisputed fact. Its just goes to show that Pernell was not nearly as good as most thought that he could only get a draw against him after all those punches to the crotch. Not to mention Chavez moved up in weight to fight Pernell another advantage he had and still could only get a draw.

Dude seriously, if all your gonna do is tell us how crappy fighters are if they haven't fought in the 2000's and diss on great fighters like Whitaker who is IMO the greatest fighter of the last 20 years, then I don't think the history section is for you brah.

The history section is for debate and gaining new knowledge every day from the past, not trashing every great fighter that's fought before you actually started watching boxing.

JAB5239
05-16-2011, 06:45 PM
Roger Mayweather had a few fight's at WW in the late 80's after he lost to Pernell Whitaker at LW, knocking out journey man and for some strange reason The Ring put him in their Top 10 Welterweight Rankings, maybe becase Roger Mayweather was a name and had initially moved to WW. He then down to Jr Welterweight and spent the rest of the 80's and early 90's there.

Roger Mayweather was not a Top Welterweight in the 80's, by a long shot.

Roger Mayweather was never a Top Welterweight in his entire career, infact.

All this is true, but he WAS rated and added depth to the division that SC claimed "absolutely terrible in the late 80's". My whole point is to show it wasn't as bad as he has claimed.

JAB5239
05-16-2011, 06:47 PM
Jab. I seriously don't know why you even respond to this guy. It's not like he's mis-informed he just has the inability to take in any information that he doesn't agree with.

I need to entertain myself too bro!

Ziggy Stardust
05-16-2011, 06:55 PM
That said Pernell had Chavez just about completely debilitated by hitting him to the nuts

How can Chavez be debilitated by shots to the nuts when he was a crybaby who's balls hadn't dropped yet? :crying:

RubenSonny
05-16-2011, 06:56 PM
Whitaker retaliated with low blows after Chavez started hitting him in the hips and thighs. That's illegal if you didn't know that. The only difference is Whitaker didn't cry about it like Chavez always did when he got it back. Whitaker kept fighting and didn't complain..





I can post it for you to see for yourself to refresh your memory if you don't remember.

Thank you.

That said Lockridge has no case he was beaten in a close contest

He does have a case.