View Full Version : How is Lennox Lewis not the GOAT HW??


STILL_DETOX
05-14-2011, 02:26 AM
who would beat this guy in his prime?

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Jack Napier
05-14-2011, 02:27 AM
who would beat this guy in his prime?

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he got iced by Rahman

STILL_DETOX
05-14-2011, 02:40 AM
he got iced by Rahman

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Barnburner
05-14-2011, 03:01 AM
Compared to Ali and Louis he has a weak resume and little accomplishments.

Mannie Phresh
05-14-2011, 03:09 AM
throw him in the early 70s and he gets iced by ali foreman frazier. maybe even chuvalo. hes good but he cant compete with the greats.

SCtrojansbaby
05-14-2011, 03:40 AM
Lennox vs Ali is a 50/50 fight, much like Ken Norton was for Ali. Ali had trouble against guy that could fight of there back foot.

JAB5239
05-14-2011, 04:02 AM
I'll take Ali, Louis and Foreman as definite wins over Lennox and give him 50/50 odds with Dempsey, Liston, Bowe, Frazier and Holmes. Anybody else I would bet my money on the best version of Lewis. At his best the guy could flat out fight.

The_Demon
05-14-2011, 04:07 AM
He's a top 10 all time but not no.1 no way,id favour a few guys (Ali,Foreman,Frazier,Louis) over him but give him a good chance against anyone else

House of Stone
05-14-2011, 04:23 AM
I think a lot of guys take lewis ... he was lucky in that he fought the past prime versions of the top guys in his generation ... An aging Holyfield pressed him all the way ... the version of Holy from say Bowe 2 would have beaten him. Also I'd pick Ali, Louis and prime Tyson over him for starters and after that Holmes,Foreman,Bowe all give him a tough fight and I could see Frazier getting under his jab and landing the hook

$Natedatpkid$
05-14-2011, 05:57 AM
When he's having a good day I can agree their's only a handful of people that could beat him but the thing is that he was alittle inconsistent because their would be days were he looked horrible like when Rahman brutally trashed him, then McCall stopped him too. Also I would even say if McCall doesn't have that breakdown who's to say McCall would have beat his ass again?

Louis & Ali fought much tougher Heavyweights and didn't lose to somebody like Rahman in their primes.

Barnburner
05-14-2011, 07:42 AM
I'll take Ali, Louis and Foreman as definite wins over Lennox and give him 50/50 odds with Dempsey, Liston, Bowe, Frazier and Holmes. Anybody else I would bet my money on the best version of Lewis. At his best the guy could flat out fight.

I agree except for the bolded, I feel Liston's a definite.

IronDanHamza
05-14-2011, 07:56 AM
I agree except for the bolded, I feel Liston's a definite.

A definite what?

Brutal KO by Liston?

Barnburner
05-14-2011, 07:58 AM
A definite what?

Brutal KO by Liston?
I feel Liston stops him yes.

IronDanHamza
05-14-2011, 08:12 AM
I feel Liston stops him yes.

Oh thank God.

For a second there I thought you were saying the opposite was a definite outcome.

:lol1:

IRISH LULLABY
05-14-2011, 09:23 AM
Lennox Lewis is not the Greatest Heavyweight to ever lace them up. His accomplishments and resume pale in comparison to a few heavyweights, and that's plain for all the see, so it doesn't really need further elaboration. Quick research of Joe Louis' and Muhammad Ali's respective resumes shall give you a definite answer. Although I believe that Lennox doesn't receive the recognition he deserves for his outstanding resume, he just doesn't have the substance in his resume compared to a Louis or Ali, who both have legitimate cases for having Top 20 great resumes, P4P, across the board.

However, in H2H match-ups, Lennox fairs quite well against some of the great heavyweights in history. As was stated previous, I'd only give a handful of opponents the edge over Lennox.

Scott9945
05-14-2011, 10:00 AM
throw him in the early 70s and he gets iced by ali foreman frazier. maybe even chuvalo. hes good but he cant compete with the greats.

Lennox Lewis losing to George Chuvalo? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Ziggy Stardust
05-14-2011, 01:27 PM
who would beat this guy in his prime?

McCall and Rahman. End thread.

House of Stone
05-14-2011, 02:27 PM
McCall and Rahman. End thread.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

BigStereotype
05-14-2011, 02:45 PM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhn5h0ViX31qc2fcyo1_400.gif

BigStereotype
05-14-2011, 02:52 PM
throw him in the early 70s and he gets iced by ali foreman frazier. maybe even chuvalo. hes good but he cant compete with the greats.

lol...what?

Boxing Bob
05-14-2011, 03:08 PM
I think Lewis is an ATG. Lewis was great big with good coordination, good hand speed, decent defense, and good power in both hands. H2H in their primes, I think he beats Louis, Marchiano, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Tyson, Bowe, and either Klitshco. I make the Holyfield fight 50/50. I think Ali and a prime Holmes beat him. In terms of accomplishments I thin he is in the lower half of the top 10 somewhere between 7 and 10

STILL_DETOX
05-14-2011, 06:11 PM
dempsey: would get outboxed and KO'd cold. dempsey has a 1st round KO loss on his record are u kidding me?

louis: outboxed and jabbed to death. knocked out cold a la shmeling

marciano: outboxed and jabbed to death...

frazier: gets outboxed, LL possibly gets tagged but gets the UD...would look a lot like tua-LL

foreman: LL would be way too cautious to be caught by foreman's slow and wide shots. foreman gets outboxed and possibly tko'd late. LL might get caught by a few bombs tho

liston: gets outboxed although liston has a few good moments

ali before lay off: toss up

ali after lay off: LL by UD

holmes: LL wins close decision

prime tyson: gets outboxed and frustrated by LL's size and jab, LL wins a UD

prime holyfield: LL wins close decision

The_Demon
05-14-2011, 06:19 PM
Id favour Ali,Louis,Foreman,Frazier over Lewis

He is 50/50 against Liston,Dempsey,Holyfield,Holmes

He beats the rest up

Ziggy Stardust
05-14-2011, 08:02 PM
dempsey: would get outboxed and KO'd cold. dempsey has a 1st round KO loss on his record are u kidding me?

louis: outboxed and jabbed to death. knocked out cold a la shmeling

marciano: outboxed and jabbed to death...

frazier: gets outboxed, LL possibly gets tagged but gets the UD...would look a lot like tua-LL

foreman: LL would be way too cautious to be caught by foreman's slow and wide shots. foreman gets outboxed and possibly tko'd late. LL might get caught by a few bombs tho

liston: gets outboxed although liston has a few good moments

ali before lay off: toss up

ali after lay off: LL by UD

holmes: LL wins close decision

prime tyson: gets outboxed and frustrated by LL's size and jab, LL wins a UD

prime holyfield: LL wins close decision

^^^^^ Psychodelic substances are obviously being ingested by the TS :nonono:

IronDanHamza
05-14-2011, 08:15 PM
I can't see how Liston-Lewis is 50/50.

I can't see anyway you can look at that fight and not atleast favour Liston.

IIIX JACK XIII
05-14-2011, 09:13 PM
I think even the most biased Lewis fan would struggle to make a case for him being the HW GOAT

BigStereotype
05-14-2011, 10:01 PM
I think even the most biased Lewis fan would struggle to make a case for him being the HW GOAT

JoeyZagz in 5...4...3...2...1...

Ziggy Stardust
05-14-2011, 11:28 PM
JoeyZagz in 5...4...3...2...1...

:hahahaha9::hahahaha9::hahahaha9::hahahaha9:

DarkTerror88
05-15-2011, 12:23 AM
JoeyZagz in 5...4...3...2...1...

:lol1: :lol1:

Stuff like this is why your the funniest guy on the forum.

BigStereotype
05-15-2011, 12:46 AM
:lol1: :lol1:

Stuff like this is why your the funniest guy on the forum.

Wow, thanks! I don't know about that, but I try...it's probably gonna get deleted. I deserve it. I actually like Joey, he's a pretty knowledgeable dude, he just sets himself up by being so crazy passionate about Lewis and Calzaghe.

The_Demon
05-15-2011, 01:54 AM
I can't see how Liston-Lewis is 50/50.

I can't see anyway you can look at that fight and not atleast favour Liston.

The more i think about it i agree i made a mistake in my earlier post,i certainly favour Liston over Lewis aswell as the names i mentioned,although not as strongly,i see it as a 60/40 fight

JAB5239
05-15-2011, 04:13 AM
Wow, thanks! I don't know about that, but I try...it's probably gonna get deleted. I deserve it. I actually like Joey, he's a pretty knowledgeable dude, he just sets himself up by being so crazy passionate about Lewis and Calzaghe.

In spite of his sometimes crazy opinions I like Zags. I think he'll take this in stride as it is pretty funny!

Scott9945
05-15-2011, 07:11 PM
In spite of his sometimes crazy opinions I like Zags. I think he'll take this in stride as it is pretty funny!

I agree Jab. Zags has a clear agenda, but I think he does it with a smirk and for the most part is pulling our chains.

physiker
05-15-2011, 08:18 PM
who would beat this guy in his prime?

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You can discount what Foreman says. This is part of the promo end of boxing "analysts" pushing upcoming fights. And beating a Tyson about 10 years after Douglas did it, and Tyson saying he was done at that earlier point tells you that the Lewis victory over Tyson is virtually meaningless.

Remember Foreman is one of the greatest salesman of all time. Ask him now what he thinks. You know he is being disingenuous because he would naturally want to say he would have beat him, which he probably would have.

In addiiton to Rahman I, and McCall who threw the bomb with his eyes closed, Lewis, many claim, was gifted vs Mercer. But he is up there among ATG HWs by virtue of his size, power, athleticism, and skills. Definitely not #1, as at least 5 others would probably have beaten him. But he is an ATG great HW no doubt.

nomadman
05-16-2011, 06:09 AM
Head to head and on his best day I favour Lewis over a lot of great heavyweights, including Foreman. Very few fighters in history possessed the sort of combination of skill, size, power and determination (an underrated aspect of Lewis IMO) that he had. His one drawback for me was his inconsistency. His losses to McCall and especially Rahman came when he was plain and simply not training properly, and he deserved them. But it should be noted that whatever they may have lacked both guys could flat out bang, and they both caught Lewis flush on the jaw with their money punches. They're a black eye on his career of course, but people make too much of them and the fact that he avenged both losses emphatically (if a bit weirdly versus McCall) should mitigate them to a large degree. The Mercer fight was a wee bit controversial, but then so were Ali Norton and Louis Walcott, so if you're going to hold that against him at least put it in perspective.

As far as resume goes, Lewis had a phenomenal one. Holyfield, Tyson, Vitali, Tua, Golota, Mercer, Ruddock, Morrison, Bruno, Briggs, McCall, Rahman, Grant, Botha etc etc. A large number of those fighters he totally destroyed, and not one name on his resume holds a win over him that was not avenged by Lewis at a later date. Since I don't like getting into comparisons with fighters from past eras (a futile and contentious exercise) I will say that he more or less did what every great past champion did, and that was take on as many of the best fighters of his era as were around and willing to fight him. The only fighters whom I've heard Lewis might have "ducked" are Byrd and Ruiz. Not bad when all's said and done.

I won't make any emphatic claim to stating that LL was the GOAT (my sig is not entirely serious if you hadn't guessed) but then I don't make any claim that any fighter, even Ali, was the GOAT either. I will say that he stands in exhalted company though, and would have a good chance of beating anyone in history on the right day.

JAB5239
05-16-2011, 06:28 AM
Head to head and on his best day I favour Lewis over a lot of great heavyweights, including Foreman. Very few fighters in history possessed the sort of combination of skill, size, power and determination (an underrated aspect of Lewis IMO) that he had. His one drawback for me was his inconsistency. His losses to McCall and especially Rahman came when he was plain and simply not training properly, and he deserved them. But it should be noted that whatever they may have lacked both guys could flat out bang, and they both caught Lewis flush on the jaw with their money punches. They're a black eye on his career of course, but people make too much of them and the fact that he avenged both losses emphatically (if a bit weirdly versus McCall) should mitigate them to a large degree. The Mercer fight was a wee bit controversial, but then so were Ali Norton and Louis Walcott, so if you're going to hold that against him at least put it in perspective.

As far as resume goes, Lewis had a phenomenal one. Holyfield, Tyson, Vitali, Tua, Golota, Mercer, Ruddock, Morrison, Bruno, Briggs, McCall, Rahman, Grant, Botha etc etc. A large number of those fighters he totally destroyed, and not one name on his resume holds a win over him that was not avenged by Lewis at a later date. Since I don't like getting into comparisons with fighters from past eras (a futile and contentious exercise) I will say that he more or less did what every great past champion did, and that was take on as many of the best fighters of his era as were around and willing to fight him. The only fighters whom I've heard Lewis might have "ducked" are Byrd and Ruiz. Not bad when all's said and done.

I won't make any emphatic claim to stating that LL was the GOAT (my sig is not entirely serious if you hadn't guessed) but then I don't make any claim that any fighter, even Ali, was the GOAT either. I will say that he stands in exhalted company though, and would have a good chance of beating anyone in history on the right day.

One of the best, most well thought out posts I've read in awhile! :fing02:

nomadman
05-16-2011, 05:44 PM
One of the best, most well thought out posts I've read in awhile! :fing02:

Thanks mate. :)

RubenSonny
05-16-2011, 06:04 PM
The Mercer fight was a wee bit controversial, but then so were Ali Norton and Louis Walcott

I wouldn't make that comparison as both were significantly past prime, and each hold convincing wins (especially in the case of Louis) over those respective opponents, I also hold those fighters in higher regard than Mercer.

Though I don't think I hold Lewis in the same regard as you, it was a good post.