View Full Version : Marvis Frazier as a Cruiserweight?


DarkTerror88
05-03-2011, 09:28 PM
I know Marvis wasnt a great heavyweight, probably a good one at best. But if he moved down to CW and stopped trying to emulate his father, how would he do in any CW era?

CarlosG815
05-03-2011, 10:05 PM
I know Marvis wasnt a great heavyweight, probably a good one at best. But if he moved down to CW and stopped trying to emulate his father, how would he do in any CW era?

Marvis never had what it took to be a great fighter. He was a good prospect, probably mainly because of his father, and while he had good skills, he just lacked that X factor that great fighters have.

Scott9945
05-03-2011, 10:15 PM
Marvis never had what it took to be a great fighter. He was a good prospect, probably mainly because of his father, and while he had good skills, he just lacked that X factor that great fighters have.

I always thought was Marvis lacked most was a decent chin. He didn't react well to hard punches, and I think that would have happened at cruiserweight too.

CarlosG815
05-03-2011, 10:17 PM
I always thought was Marvis lacked most was a decent chin. He didn't react well to hard punches, and I think that would have happened at cruiserweight too.

Definitely lacking in the chin area. Joe couldn't pass on that iron chin, which is too bad.

DarkTerror88
05-03-2011, 10:37 PM
Yeah you guys are right. Just a "theory" I had. But I DO think he would of fared better than at heavyweight. Just wasn't built for it, even though his dad was.

TBear
05-04-2011, 03:33 AM
I watched Marvis since the amateurs and I thought he would make an excellent cruiserweight. I can't see him beating Holyfield but he would have a good chance with most of the other cruiserweights that were around back then.

Barnburner
05-04-2011, 03:40 AM
Definitely lacking in the chin area. Joe couldn't pass on that iron chin, which is too bad.

I'm a big Frazier fan but, no way can you say he had an iron chin.

mickey malone
05-04-2011, 06:32 AM
I watched Marvis since the amateurs and I thought he would make an excellent cruiserweight. I can't see him beating Holyfield but he would have a good chance with most of the other cruiserweights that were around back then.
He'd have stood a good chance with DeLeon or Ocasio but i wouldn't be too over confident. I always remember the way he'd try and copy Joe's style, even growling as he hooked but totally lacked the old man's pop. Marvis did however, have a particular awkwardness and if allowed into his stride was very adept at staying close to an often bigger opponent while out-working them on the inside. He was able to grind out dc's over Bonecrusher Smith, Jose Ribalta, James Tillis and Joe Bugner in this way so yes, he'd have been a pretty tough proposition for most cruiserweights.

Freddie Jackson
05-04-2011, 06:48 AM
madness how joe can have such a great chin but his son not so much, just one generation down

TBear
05-04-2011, 07:39 AM
He'd have stood a good chance with DeLeon or Ocasio but i wouldn't be too over confident. I always remember the way he'd try and copy Joe's style, even growling as he hooked but totally lacked the old man's pop. Marvis did however, have a particular awkwardness and if allowed into his stride was very adept at staying close to an often bigger opponent while out-working them on the inside. He was able to grind out dc's over Bonecrusher Smith, Jose Ribalta, James Tillis and Joe Bugner in this way so yes, he'd have been a pretty tough proposition for most cruiserweights.

Frazier-Deleon would have been interesting if things were different. Guys like Leroy Murphy and Ossie Ocasio would have been alot easier than Holmes and Tyson.
I always though Frazier was mishandled by his dad though. Joe wanted Marvis to be a heavyweight real bad. Pushed him into a heavyweight title shot when he was only 10-0 against the best fighter in the division at the time. Suppose Marvis was trained and handled by Futch(or any good trainer), and developed properly. He probably would had even done alot better with his career.

jabsRstiff
05-04-2011, 07:49 AM
Frazier-Deleon would have been interesting if things were different. Guys like Leroy Murphy and Ossie Ocasio would have been alot easier than Holmes and Tyson.
I always though Frazier was mishandled by his dad though. Joe wanted Marvis to be a heavyweight real bad. Pushed him into a heavyweight title shot when he was only 10-0 against the best fighter in the division at the time. Suppose Marvis was trained and handled by Futch(or any good trainer), and developed properly. He probably would had even done alot better with his career.


Excellent thread topic, with both questions asked that I had always wondered about- which basically center around his father fighting him as a heavyweight and with the style he (Joe) used. Marvis clearly was not built to compete with the bigger, better heavies, and certainly not built to go at them the way his father would have.

For those thinking his chin would fail at crusier.....He was getting hit by Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Bonecrusher Smith, etc, how the hell does that mean he- a natural cruiser- couldn't take a punch?

House of Stone
05-04-2011, 08:10 AM
I actually think he'd have done ok at cruiser he wouldn't have beaten holyfield obviously but really who would? Qwai would also be too much for him imo but if he hung around for long enough i wouldn't have been surprised if he managed to get hold of a version of the title at some point.

One thing you gotta remember about marvis his two biggest losses were to Tyson on possibly Mike's best night ever and Larry Holmes ... nothing to be embarrassed about ... put his father in with someone like holmes after just 10 pro fights and he would have lost aswell ... likewise no way even prime smoking joe would have beaten Tyson in that form.

GJC
05-04-2011, 09:53 AM
Joe certainly didn't do his boy many favours, pushed too quickly in a weight that didn't suit him with a style that didn't suit him either. Also he struck me like he was being a fighter to please his Dad rather than any great personal desire which would have told at any weight IMO. He wasn't without skill and with someone else pushing his career along he would have done better but without a fighters instinct which can't really be taught or manufactured I think he would have struggled

physiker
05-04-2011, 10:14 AM
He coulda been a contender at CW.

CarlosG815
05-04-2011, 10:24 AM
Joe certainly didn't do his boy many favours, pushed too quickly in a weight that didn't suit him with a style that didn't suit him either. Also he struck me like he was being a fighter to please his Dad rather than any great personal desire which would have told at any weight IMO. He wasn't without skill and with someone else pushing his career along he would have done better but without a fighters instinct which can't really be taught or manufactured I think he would have struggled

Exactly this.

Forza
05-04-2011, 05:10 PM
This just popped up today: Marvis frazier HL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9vc1aUyI0&feature=feedu

IMO you don't choose boxing, boxing chooses you.