View Full Version : Ice baths/contrast showers


Lol999
09-23-2005, 07:42 AM
Anybody use these to relieve soreness after workouts? I have a big problem with DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) after working out with weights. I 've read that alternating the temperature of your shower post workout between cold and hot is useful. Anyone tried it? perhaps Bigdozer, PunchDrunk et al can shed some light?

Cheers, Lol

ophqui
09-23-2005, 03:39 PM
Jeez, u were misinformed there bud. After a workout a cold shower should be the last thing on ur mind. DOMS is caused by small tares and damage to the muscle tissue, cold shower causes muscles to contract slightly, result; not good.
Best things to avoid DOMS are a few rounds of light skipping, some stretching, a rub down and a hot bath.

Lol999
09-23-2005, 05:09 PM
The theory goes that the cold water slows blood flow to the affected area. Then when the blood temp rises again frsh blood is pumped through thus carrying waste products out to be processed by the organs. I know the England rugby team uses them as does Paula radcliffe, just wondered if anyone here had tried them. I suspect Punchdrunk and Bigdozer can give the definitive answers.

Cheers, Lol

BigDozer260
09-23-2005, 11:32 PM
The theory goes that the cold water slows blood flow to the affected area. Then when the blood temp rises again frsh blood is pumped through thus carrying waste products out to be processed by the organs. I know the England rugby team uses them as does Paula radcliffe, just wondered if anyone here had tried them. I suspect Punchdrunk and Bigdozer can give the definitive answers.

Cheers, Lol Any you're right my friend, Lol. DOMS is really the bodys reaction to the injury that has resulted from an overly intense workout. Your body produces chemicals that acts like antibodies, which creates a resistance to future DOMS occurances. If your muscle are always sore from your workouts you are doing something very wrong my friend and asking for and serious overuse injury. I not trying to brag but I workout routinely with betweein 315lbs and 500 lbs and I'm never sore, and I really kill those weights, but my body has worked up to those intensities. Ice baths are a band-aid on a gunshot wound, the real porblem is your routine. For a bodybuilder your routines sounds, well....routine. Subsituting soreness for appearance is the bodybuilders lifestyle soreness is not an issue as a you attempt to create as many micro tears to fibers as possible without injury. As an athlete this is not what your routine should be like. You should focus on lower reps heaver weight basic pulls(bent over rows, deadlifts,powercleans, snatches), presses(bench press, military press, push press), and Squats( jumping, lunges, one leg).1-5 reps, 80-100 percent intensity(percentage of one rep max).

PunchDrunk
09-24-2005, 05:00 AM
Amen to that! :)

Lol999
09-24-2005, 06:29 AM
Okay fellas I can see the sense in what your'e saying, and I must say the constant soreness aspect puzzled me. Why would anyone want it? For n averag guy then that just wants to build some muscle nd increase strength without getting huge what rep range and percentage of 1 rep max would you reccommend? Would you reccommend the combined exercises such as deads or bring in more isolation exercises. I appreciate there is no one size fits all but a geneal direction would be helpful.

Cheers, Lol

BigDozer260
09-24-2005, 10:06 AM
Okay fellas I can see the sense in what your'e saying, and I must say the constant soreness aspect puzzled me. Why would anyone want it? For n averag guy then that just wants to build some muscle nd increase strength without getting huge what rep range and percentage of 1 rep max would you reccommend? Would you reccommend the combined exercises such as deads or bring in more isolation exercises. I appreciate there is no one size fits all but a geneal direction would be helpful.

Cheers, LolFor power athletes isolation exercises are not recommended, they are just not necessary. For power sports, and rugby is a power sport, 1 rep max should be between 80-100+%(you will eventually have a bigger one rep max) for maximal strength, 60-80% for muscle hypertrophy, 55% or less for anatomical adaptation or muscular endruance. The basic movements meet all the needs of you major muscle groups, and you will never be isolating muscle groups on the playing field, so why use that type of training?

Pugnacious_Z
09-24-2005, 10:12 AM
if u do each muscle isolated, wudnt each muscle be very strong so wen u do a non-isolated exercise, all the muscles work together makin u lift more?

BigDozer260
09-24-2005, 10:17 AM
Since you want to build some muscle as well pick a weight at between 60-80% of your 1rm,and about 8-15 reps, heres the problem. Anytime you focus on muscle hypertrophy there could be some soreness at first. As a Sports Contitioning Specialist, I do not allow my new clients, who are not contitioned, to exercise to failure. Repping till failure, is an advanced training technique, that should only be used once the muscle have adjusted to the rigors of a general weightlifting program. Exercising till failure is a no-no for athletes, unless done at the beginning of the off-season, to build additional muscle mass well before the start of the season. Focus on the weight you are lifting, use controlled quality reps, focus on the entire range of motion and slower reps temopo. Like I said this ain't how athletes produce power, but once additional muscle mass is gained, additional muscular strength and power can be achieved through proper training.

BigDozer260
09-24-2005, 10:28 AM
if u do each muscle isolated, wudnt each muscle be very strong so wen u do a non-isolated exercise, all the muscles work together makin u lift more?That is cool for a powerlifter, not an athlete, per se. Yes isolation movements give additional, strength to surrounding muscle groups, but this should be focused on very early in the off season. Ok guy, can't you tell I only focus on athletes primarily? Most of my advice is to become a better athlete not a better weightlifter. But the act of all the muscle groups working together is a recording of motor function by the central nervous system. The central nervous system records isolation movements, as a total seperate entity. Specificity remember. Bettering you ability to use more muscular groups at once activate more motor units which actually is far better for maximal strength. Ever heard of westside barbell club? They keep it for the most part basic as far as movements, yet the incorporate many form of resistance like bands and chains to give additional resistance at certain spots of the lift and not the entire lift. Also dynamic movements like squat jumps(ver elite) and bench press throws(also very elite). Trust me there are many ways to acheive great resutls, but only the best results come from using the most motor units possible, and that is using major muscle groups at once.

Lol999
09-24-2005, 04:29 PM
Cheers 'Dozer, helps me look at a suitable regime and remember the old adage "walk before running" ;)

Cheers, Lol

Pugnacious_Z
09-24-2005, 08:22 PM
hey bigdozer, are u tryin to say that if i keep lifting between the 1-6rep range for all my lifts, dat i wont gain much weight? coz ive been doin dat for 6months now. i herd b4 dat if u do heavy weights, u get big muscles but not cut, just big and if u do lighter weights u get endurance muscle which look cut. is dat true?

Kid Achilles
09-24-2005, 08:40 PM
The cut looks comes not from the way you lift, but your muscular development and your bodyfat percentage. You will not get ripped or "toned" by lifting light weights, despite what so many people think.

BigDozer260
09-24-2005, 08:53 PM
hey bigdozer, are u tryin to say that if i keep lifting between the 1-6rep range for all my lifts, dat i wont gain much weight? coz ive been doin dat for 6months now. i herd b4 dat if u do heavy weights, u get big muscles but not cut, just big and if u do lighter weights u get endurance muscle which look cut. is dat true? Rep tempo, repitition number, and range of motion are more important for hypertrophy than weight used. 1-6 reps don't create enough tension on the fibers for micro tears necessary to promote hypertrophy. Your rep range is called neuralogical adaptation, strengthening of the ligaments, tendons, and mucle pull on and around articular surfaces(joints). Not a mass building routine at all you will build mass because there is tension on the muscles but not the high tension needed for continued hypertrophy. Lower your weight and focus on slower tempo, more quality reps and conrolling the weight with the proper muscle groups, without cheating.

msocearnaigh
09-27-2005, 06:16 AM
regaeding the original question,ive used the hot /cold shower treatment and i found it to help.i was also told to cut out dairy products as they contain lactose and this is what promotes lactic acid on the joints causing the stiffness a day or so later.i found this to work very well also.the best way to relieve this stiffness is to warm down and stretch as was stated earlier though.

BigDozer260
09-27-2005, 04:46 PM
regaeding the original question,ive used the hot /cold shower treatment and i found it to help.i was also told to cut out dairy products as they contain lactose and this is what promotes lactic acid on the joints causing the stiffness a day or so later.i found this to work very well also.the best way to relieve this stiffness is to warm down and stretch as was stated earlier though.Who told you that bull**** about lactic adic? Lactic acid is a much needed chemical in the body, it is a fuel that muscle and heart need at rest and during exercise. It is produced in greater volume during exercise because of the depletion of ATP and CP, which when totally depleted renders the muscles locked in a spasm. Lactic acid and Lactose which is a sugar compound in the the cows milk are two very different and non-connected chemicals. Lactic acid is stored in the muscle cells, and Lactose comes from bovine mammary glands.

msocearnaigh
09-28-2005, 11:29 AM
it was a physio i went to see for an injury.he trained sean kelly (whos a bit of a legend in the cycling world) and kelly swore by this.it may have been a case of "mind over matter" in my case but i definitely found it beneficial.