View Full Version : what if the SMW version of James Toney was in the Division Today?


DarkTerror88
04-27-2011, 12:19 PM
How would he do?

Barn
04-27-2011, 12:24 PM
He would do excellently at SMW in any area.

The_Demon
04-27-2011, 12:46 PM
He would dominate,i cant think of anybody id even give a fair chance of beating him

The Surgeon
04-27-2011, 12:52 PM
He would dominate,i cant think of anybody id even give a fair chance of beating him

Toney would have to be considered the best if he was around today but i think he has his hands full big time with Andre S.O.G Ward, the kid can fight and fight well

BigStereotype
04-27-2011, 01:59 PM
He would crush everyone but Ward, who he still beats handily.

The Surgeon
04-27-2011, 03:04 PM
He would crush everyone but Ward, who he still beats handily.

I dont think Ward would wanna mix it up on the inside with JT but if they did go at it on the inside then What a Fight we would have! I say that coz Ward is bull strong, mentally and physically and he as a great inside game.
Toney tho was a genius on the inside

BigStereotype
04-27-2011, 03:36 PM
I dont think Ward would wanna mix it up on the inside with JT but if they did go at it on the inside then What a Fight we would have! I say that coz Ward is bull strong, mentally and physically and he as a great inside game.
Toney tho was a genius on the inside

Yeah, Ward can hold his own on the inside, no doubt about that, but those lightning fast combos would have been too much. Toney could flurry on the inside faster than anyone I've ever seen.

New England
04-27-2011, 05:15 PM
knocks out bute. dude is open for power punches and timing always beats speed
decisions ward. ward would probably make this one ugly and dirty
decisions froch. fun fight. froch gets outclassed
prime kessler could perhaps stick around for 12, but he's not winning
whitewashes johnson on the cards
forces abraham's corner to retire him in the 10th
has a little trouble before knocking andre dirrell out cold. i dont know if his team would even take the fight
stops taylor
murders allan green. he'd never fight again. i wouldn't wish that sort of a beating on any man. green's head would fly around all night



here i come baby
burgerking burgerking!

IronDanHamza
04-27-2011, 08:00 PM
He wins the super six with very little trouble.

SCtrojansbaby
04-28-2011, 04:43 PM
It would be him Bute and Ward at the top. I think Toney is a bad matchup for Ward Toney is the master of inside fighting and. I think Bute who still is kind of an unknown as far as top competition goes would give Toney trouble. Bute is fast, accurate and long enough to stay just outside of Toney's range.

New England
04-28-2011, 09:02 PM
It would be him Bute and Ward at the top. I think Toney is a bad matchup for Ward Toney is the master of inside fighting and. I think Bute who still is kind of an unknown as far as top competition goes would give Toney trouble. Bute is fast, accurate and long enough to stay just outside of Toney's range.




toney beat evander holyfield without having problems with the length

Steak
04-28-2011, 09:06 PM
I see him beating everyone, but him coming in super out of shape and getting outhustled by someone like Froch or Ward is still a possibility.

lightsout_finit
04-29-2011, 12:04 AM
There is nobody special in the division today...........
Toney beats evryone easily.

bute has terrible stamina and would get hammered with bodyshots. ko
froch is tough but kinda stupid. brutal beatin then ko
ward would just try to spoil all night. ud/late ko
kessler is an on top fighter, his heart would get took away in the early rounds. ko(quit)
johnson would get soundly outboxed. ud

DeepSleep
04-29-2011, 04:13 AM
If Toney came to fight I'll say he KO's Bute easily, UD's Froch/Abraham soundly and beats Ward in a 116 to 112 type UD.

If Toney didn't come to fight I'll still take him to KO Bute and UD Abraham easily. He beats Froch by UD w/o controversy but Froch works hard enough to win enough rounds to make it interesting. Ward wins an ugly ugly SD or razor thin UD.

SCtrojansbaby
04-29-2011, 06:19 AM
toney beat evander holyfield without having problems with the length

That is a terrible example, Michael Nunn would be the right example. But I think Bute has more power then Nunn not that he could KO Toney but he would respect his punches more and not be as quick to to counter. Still it is at worst a 50/50 fight and if I had to bet I would bet on Toney

RubenSonny
04-29-2011, 06:21 AM
That is a terrible example, Michael Nunn would be the right example. But I think Bute has more power then Nunn not that he could KO Toney but he would respect his punches more and not be as quick to to counter. Still it is at worst a 50/50 fight and if I had to bet I would bet on Toney

Nunn>>>>>>Bute.

SCtrojansbaby
04-29-2011, 06:29 AM
Nunn>>>>>>Bute.


Obviously he has proven waaaaay more but he isn't more talented then Bute.

RubenSonny
04-29-2011, 06:32 AM
Obviously he has proven waaaaay more but he isn't more talented then Bute.

Erm, yes he was.

The_Demon
04-29-2011, 06:55 AM
Obviously he has proven waaaaay more but he isn't more talented then Bute.

Do you actually watch boxing?

That's a serious question by the way

SCtrojansbaby
04-29-2011, 07:14 AM
Erm, yes he was.


How is he more talented? Athletically Bute is as good as it gets, Bute is accurate, slick, has great power and has can fight outside inside and in the pocket. Bute is the full package except for maybe chin.

nachorjj
04-29-2011, 07:26 AM
do not know what would happen in a clash with Ward, but to others they would win and probably by KO

RubenSonny
04-29-2011, 08:29 AM
How is he more talented? Athletically Bute is as good as it gets, Bute is accurate, slick, has great power and has can fight outside inside and in the pocket. Bute is the full package except for maybe chin.

Nunn was slicker, more accurate and more physically gifted, maybe less power though. I saw Bute troubled on the inside by Brian Magee....

SCtrojansbaby
04-29-2011, 08:44 AM
Nunn was slicker, more accurate and more physically gifted, maybe less power though. I saw Bute troubled on the inside by Brian Magee....

You could argue Nunn was slicker, but he was never even against lower end comp nearly as accurate as Bute. Bute as an athlete is about as good as it gets

RubenSonny
04-29-2011, 08:45 AM
You could argue Nunn was slicker, but he was never even against lower end comp nearly as accurate as Bute.

Bute hasn't fought anyone particularly good and he struggled against Magee and got KTFO by Andrade, I don't see how hes on the level of a prime and focused Nunn.

The_Demon
04-29-2011, 08:51 AM
You could argue Nunn was slicker, but he was never even against lower end comp nearly as accurate as Bute.

Nunn was a hell of a lot slicker,theirs no argument

New England
04-29-2011, 09:11 AM
That is a terrible example, Michael Nunn would be the right example. But I think Bute has more power then Nunn not that he could KO Toney but he would respect his punches more and not be as quick to to counter. Still it is at worst a 50/50 fight and if I had to bet I would bet on Toney


for the first bold i'm wondering why? if you can fight as a heavyweight with toney's size clearly you have the craft to create a favorable distance, and wont be overwhelmed by length


that fight is in my collection. i watch it all the time.
for a former middleweight well beyond his best days you cant tell me that it was anything but a masterpiece, and evidence aplenty that bute's length wouldnt be a problem for james toney

and as for the speed and power, toney fought faster and more powerful guys




for the second bold, keeping in mind that you evidently watch football (and perhaps not boxing:)


Cmon man!


you're talking about legitimate legend in his prime losing to lucian bute?

bute was knocked out by liberado andrade, dude. liberado andrade! that ref ought to be run out of town. bute was completely drained and out on his feet, and the ref stalled for a solid 25 seconds


a shady referee is the only thing that saved bute from a kayo loss to andrade.
and you have him 50/ 50 with james toney?

SCtrojansbaby
04-29-2011, 09:12 AM
Bute hasn't fought anyone particularly good and he struggled against Magee and got KTFO by Andrade, I don't see how hes on the level of a prime and focused Nunn.

As I said Bute in no where near as accomplished. But Nunn has had an off night against some lower end guys like Magee as well, 95% of fighters do. As for the Andrade fight it may have exposed a flaw but Andrade has legit power and Bute just got lazy he dominated most of that fight and was very very impressive in the rematch.

Toney616
04-29-2011, 09:12 AM
I see him beating everyone, but him coming in super out of shape and getting outhustled by someone like Froch or Ward is still a possibility.
Toney in his own words:
"Lack of motivation hurt me," Toney admits. "I didn't train right. I didn't run for eight years. After the Barkley fight, I was never really in shape."
http://www.secondsout.com/columns/thomas-hauser/james-toney-reaches-for-glory1

Toney616
04-29-2011, 09:13 AM
Bute hasn't fought anyone particularly good and he struggled against Magee and got KTFO by Andrade, I don't see how hes on the level of a prime and focused Nunn.
Nunn was already on the slide by the time he fought Toney. He really had no business losing that fight

lightsout_finit
04-29-2011, 10:33 AM
lol at anyone who rates bute over nunn!!! XD

Bute has some power and is quite accurate also he isn't slow in the early rounds.
But he has terrible stamina and is easily confused. The guy throws like 5 shots a round.

Nunn had speed, power and boxing skill with decent stamina
Bute wishes he had Nunns attributes.

RubenSonny
04-29-2011, 11:18 AM
Nunn was already on the slide by the time he fought Toney. He really had no business losing that fight

What makes you think that? I thought he looked very good in that fight.

Toney616
04-30-2011, 10:36 AM
What makes you think that? I thought he looked very good in that fight.
He started getting into back into drugs and the street life around the time of the Barkley fight. He was also refusing to follow the fight plans his trainers layed down for him and tried to out-brawl his opponents instead of out-boxing them.

eli porter
04-30-2011, 02:55 PM
ward's the best smw out there now but doesn't anyone else think that dirrel would be a really bad match up for toney style wise?

he's not going to come forward, he's fast and can fight southpaw. Toney's biggest problem is his footspeed and struggled a little against nunn. he was behind on the scorecards until the ko (if i remember correctly).

The Surgeon
04-30-2011, 03:03 PM
ward's the best smw out there now but doesn't anyone else think that dirrel would be a really bad match up for toney style wise?

he's not going to come forward, he's fast and can fight southpaw. Toney's biggest problem is his footspeed and struggled a little against nunn. he was behind on the scorecards until the ko (if i remember correctly).

Dirrell gives him pnty of trouble with speed and movement but i can see Toney bullying him a bit, i think he'd be in Dirrels head before the fight too, i like James to get a late KO there. Ur right tho he is a stylistic nightmare for JT

The Surgeon
04-30-2011, 03:05 PM
ward's the best smw out there now but doesn't anyone else think that dirrel would be a really bad match up for toney style wise?

he's not going to come forward, he's fast and can fight southpaw. Toney's biggest problem is his footspeed and struggled a little against nunn. he was behind on the scorecards until the ko (if i remember correctly).

BTW why is ur bar red? All ur posts ive read have made perfect sense and are worth reading, u seem like a good poster whats the deal?

RubenSonny
04-30-2011, 05:02 PM
He started getting into back into drugs and the street life around the time of the Barkley fight. He was also refusing to follow the fight plans his trainers layed down for him and tried to out-brawl his opponents instead of out-boxing them.

Not doubting your info but do you have a source?

joseph5620
04-30-2011, 06:56 PM
He started getting into back into drugs and the street life around the time of the Barkley fight. He was also refusing to follow the fight plans his trainers layed down for him and tried to out-brawl his opponents instead of out-boxing them.

Bottom line is that he was winning all of his fights until he fought Toney. And that's really all that matters. It's convenient to say he was "on the slide" after he lost. But the bottom line is that he was unbeaten and considered one of the best fighters in the world. Until Toney beat him. That's a fact. Anything else is speculation.



Up until that point there is absolutely nothing that indicates Nunn was slipping in the ring.

studentofthegam
05-01-2011, 02:15 AM
ward's the best smw out there now but doesn't anyone else think that dirrel would be a really bad match up for toney style wise?

he's not going to come forward, he's fast and can fight southpaw. Toney's biggest problem is his footspeed and struggled a little against nunn. he was behind on the scorecards until the ko (if i remember correctly).I think Toney beats them all but razor thin with Ward and Dirrell hits him the most. That would be the best match up to me.

SCtrojansbaby
05-01-2011, 11:16 AM
I don't think Toney has any problems with Dirrell, too one dimensional it would be extreamly boring though.

eli porter
05-01-2011, 02:04 PM
BTW why is ur bar red? All ur posts ive read have made perfect sense and are worth reading, u seem like a good poster whats the deal?

LOL, i criticised one of those posters with a billion rep points because one of his "joke" topics was in bad taste. I think he maxed out my minus reputation.

It seems to make absolutely no difference though, as far as I can tell.

The Surgeon
05-01-2011, 02:18 PM
LOL, i criticised one of those posters with a billion rep points because one of his "joke" topics was in bad taste. I think he maxed out my minus reputation.

It seems to make absolutely no difference though, as far as I can tell.

Ah i see! Wankers........

I'll hit u with green whenever i can dude not that ive got loads of rep power or it even means ***** lol

Pastrano
05-01-2011, 02:22 PM
Toney would roll over most of the Super Sixers...Ward, Froch and Johnson would take him the distance but lose clearly and the others would get ktfo.:boxing:

Forza
05-01-2011, 02:34 PM
I personally think froch would win by a SD and ward a dominating UD

The Surgeon
05-01-2011, 02:40 PM
I personally think froch would win by a SD and ward a dominating UD

Ud pick Carl Froch to beat a Prime James Toney?

I cant even IMAGINE that *****, I think thats Toney's easiest fight along with Abraham

BigStereotype
05-01-2011, 02:43 PM
Dirrell gives him pnty of trouble with speed and movement but i can see Toney bullying him a bit, i think he'd be in Dirrels head before the fight too, i like James to get a late KO there. Ur right tho he is a stylistic nightmare for JT

I don't know if Dirrell would give Toney all that much trouble, really. James was pretty fast himself, don't know if he'd match speed with Dirrell, but what would happen the first time one of those laser-right-hand counters catches Dirrell square? Is there any doubt that JT KO's Dirrell?

Pastrano
05-01-2011, 03:12 PM
I don't know if Dirrell would give Toney all that much trouble, really. James was pretty fast himself, don't know if he'd match speed with Dirrell, but what would happen the first time one of those laser-right-hand counters catches Dirrell square? Is there any doubt that JT KO's Dirrell?
Guys like Dirrell fared the worst against Toney. Remember Tim Littles? He was the same type. He gave Toney trouble at first, but then Toney's automatism for destruction turned on and bam, that was it. If Dirrell did the same as Reggie Johnson (who imo was a better fighter than Dirrell) and kd Toney, then he'd be in big trouble.

BigStereotype
05-01-2011, 03:15 PM
Guys like Dirrell fared the worst against Toney. Remember Tim Littles? He was the same type. He gave Toney trouble at first, but then Toney's automatism for destruction turned on and bam, that was it. If Dirrell did the same as Reggie Johnson (who imo was a better fighter than Dirrell) and kd Toney, then he'd be in big trouble.

:rofl: :rofl:

I've never heard it put like that. And Toney would get PISSED if a punk like Dirrell knocked him down. That would be an ugly beating until James decided to end it.

Pastrano
05-01-2011, 03:32 PM
:rofl: :rofl:

I've never heard it put like that. And Toney would get PISSED if a punk like Dirrell knocked him down. That would be an ugly beating until James decided to end it.

Yea and Dirrell would most likely retort to hugging the fak out of him!:rofl: Poor bitx...

mickey malone
05-01-2011, 03:41 PM
We all love JT but let's not go too overboard because outstanding talent isn't everything. Although Toney could obviously smoke anyone in the super six tourney, i'd only guarantee it in a fight for the dinner queue. Let's not forget some of his awful weight weakened performances because Ward, Froch, and Kessler imo would all be more than capable of handing him his ass on those occasions.
As for Bute, i'm undecided, mainly because he's elected to hide in the shade of the IBF where records tend to get fabricated rather than recognized. But from what i've seen of him, looks pretty sound..

Pastrano
05-01-2011, 03:54 PM
We all love JT but let's not go too overboard because outstanding talent isn't everything. Although Toney could obviously smoke anyone in the super six tourney, i'd only guarantee it in a fight for the dinner queue. Let's not forget some of his awful weight weakened performances because Ward, Froch, and Kessler imo would all be more than capable of handing him his ass on those occasions.
As for Bute, i'm undecided, mainly because he's elected to hide in the shade of the IBF where records tend to get fabricated rather than recognized. But from what i've seen of him, looks pretty sound..

The only one of those at 168 was against Jones. But the Toney that expertly dismantled Barkley and koed Prince Charles Williams and Littles would dispatch of those three without greater difficulties.

mickey malone
05-01-2011, 04:31 PM
The only one of those at 168 was against Jones. But the Toney that expertly dismantled Barkley and koed Prince Charles Williams and Littles would dispatch of those three without greater difficulties.
Williams himself, was also piss weak at the weight and had boiled himself down to 168 after a donkeys years at lhwt. Toney had laboured in non-entity decision bores over more than one tomato can as a super-middle. Jones just exemplified the fact..

Obama
05-01-2011, 04:38 PM
Aint nobody at SMW for prime Toney today. He schools all of them, Ward and Dirrell included. Knocks Dirrell out. Dirrell kind of reminds me of a lesser version of Nunn. Ward can potentially do as good as Reggie Johnson, minus the knockdown which he simply doesn't have the power for.

Ziggy Stardust
05-01-2011, 05:35 PM
We all love JT but let's not go too overboard because outstanding talent isn't everything. Although Toney could obviously smoke anyone in the super six tourney, i'd only guarantee it in a fight for the dinner queue. Let's not forget some of his awful weight weakened performances because Ward, Froch, and Kessler imo would all be more than capable of handing him his ass on those occasions.
As for Bute, i'm undecided, mainly because he's elected to hide in the shade of the IBF where records tend to get fabricated rather than recognized. But from what i've seen of him, looks pretty sound..

I seriously doubt Fraud Croch beats any version of Toney. Maybe Toney on his deathbed but even then Toney's the betting favorite.

Poet

mickey malone
05-02-2011, 03:27 PM
I seriously doubt Fraud Croch beats any version of Toney. Maybe Toney on his deathbed but even then Toney's the betting favorite.

Poet
What's wrong with Froch?.. I quite like him. Lives the game, turns up in shape and will fight anyone in the world at the drop of a hat. Ok, he may not have Toney's radar like talent, but he's got a very similar chin and he's assured to be in y'face for 12 hard rounds. Unlike Ottke and co, this guy doesn't tick any of the euro-fraud boxes.
Sure he'd be the turf accountants favourite, but who's to say he wouldn't catch Toney on one of his frequent off nights?..

Imo Toney's resume at 168 gets overrated. His best win was against Iran Barkley, closely followed by Steve Little (chiny) and Charles Williams who'd dropped a weight when past his prime. Roy Jones was top of the crop and James lost dismally to him.
Infact, i'm more impressed with his accomplishments at 160.

Ziggy Stardust
05-02-2011, 04:04 PM
What's wrong with Froch?.. I quite like him. Lives the game, turns up in shape and will fight anyone in the world at the drop of a hat. Ok, he may not have Toney's radar like talent, but he's got a very similar chin and he's assured to be in y'face for 12 hard rounds. Unlike Ottke and co, this guy doesn't tick any of the euro-fraud boxes.
Sure he'd be the turf accountants favourite, but who's to say he wouldn't catch Toney on one of his frequent off nights?..

Imo Toney's resume at 168 gets overrated. His best win was against Iran Barkley, closely followed by Steve Little (chiny) and Charles Williams who'd dropped a weight when past his prime. Roy Jones was top of the crop and James lost dismally to him.
Infact, i'm more impressed with his accomplishments at 160.

Croch is a crude low-talent club fighter (like Hatton) who gets grossly overrated in these parts because we have a very vocal UK contigent who nuthug the fvck out of their fighters no matter how crappy they are.....That's the very definition of a Euro-fraud.

Poet

mickey malone
05-02-2011, 04:34 PM
Croch is a crude low-talent club fighter (like Hatton) who gets grossly overrated in these parts because we have a very vocal UK contigent who nuthug the fvck out of their fighters no matter how crappy they are.....That's the very definition of a Euro-fraud.

Poet
But don't you think it's unfair to label an honest fighter on the strength of certain fans being over-patriotic?
Low-talent club fighters are one a penny but both Froch and Hatton worked their way to the top whilst taking their knocks along the way, and you know aswell as i do that it takes considerable talent and a great deal of fortitude in order to achieve that pinnacle in any of lifes quests.

$BloodyNate$
05-02-2011, 04:38 PM
I feel like Toney, Jones, and Hopkins could dominate any super middleweight division era.