View Full Version : Vic D- Borderline HOF or a ways to go?


Walt Liquor
04-26-2011, 09:53 AM
No real response in NSB yesterday on this. The topic briefly shifted to whether not he's HOF worthy. I say not just yet and gave a couple examples of what I think he could do to get there.

Looking at all the threads on the first page is making me sick, for the most part its about fantasy fights and people who are making excuse after excuse not to fight certain other fighters (unfortunately my boy Pwill is guilty of this right now too).

We should be talking about real fighters more, so here's a little tribute to Vic D, who's been knocking mothafukas out, fighting the best he can, and entertaining crowds since at least '04.

I know he makes some excuses after his fights, I know he's like James Toney and never gives his opponents any props, but so what. Look who he fights:

-He blew out a 30-0 Irene Pacheco for his first IBF belt,
-bombed out Maldanado,
-entertaining fight with Burgos,
-got KTFO by DOnaire (no shame in that obviously).
-Beats down a red hot Mijares for the unified title at Superfly.
-makes Arce's face mined meat
-fights a tricky badass like Agbeko in his first step up fight to bantam (Agbeko should have been undefeated)
- fights the wrong fight vs Mares the beast and loses a razor thin decision
-comes back to bumrush and beat down and admittedly flat perez, but he did what he had to do.

The guy has fought a ridiculous amount of actual champions. 9 champions, not former or future- current.

Love fighters like him
:luvbed:

Pastrano
04-26-2011, 10:07 AM
He just needs to finish the job against Mares and then if he can beat or at least look good vs Donaire, he is HOF-worthy. Oh yes, and Agbeko too. He needs to rematch him. He was butted too much in that fight, but Vic-haters tend to ignore that and say Agbeko "owned" him.

Scott9945
04-26-2011, 11:49 AM
He's worthy of consideration, maybe just one big win away. Darchinyan has been in with the best available competition and deserves credit for that.

Walt Liquor
04-26-2011, 11:55 AM
He just needs to finish the job against Mares and then if he can beat or at least look good vs Donaire, he is HOF-worthy. Oh yes, and Agbeko too. He needs to rematch him. He was butted too much in that fight, but Vic-haters tend to ignore that and say Agbeko "owned" him.

I'm no Vic hater for sure but I was ringside for that fight and I thought Agbeko won. Vic just wasn't able to rough up a dude at BW on his first fight there, he thought he was still going to be the bully.

It was a fairly close fight but a clear win for King Kong that night.

Pastrano
04-26-2011, 12:12 PM
I'm no Vic hater for sure but I was ringside for that fight and I thought Agbeko won. Vic just wasn't able to rough up a dude at BW on his first fight there, he thought he was still going to be the bully.

It was a fairly close fight but a clear win for King Kong that night.

Fine, so Agbeko's got his number, MAYBE. We'll see that if they ever fight again. But there are SO many Vic-haters there and they'll support ANYBODY who beats him or has the slightest chance to. I think thats pathetic!

Walt Liquor
04-26-2011, 12:21 PM
Fine, so Agbeko's got his number, MAYBE. We'll see that if they ever fight again. But there are SO many Vic-haters there and they'll support ANYBODY who beats him or has the slightest chance to. I think thats pathetic!

People might hate him because of his personality, but they should definitely respect him as a fighter.

If not, it's just fukin stupid.

Pastrano
04-26-2011, 12:33 PM
People might hate him because of his personality, but they should definitely respect him as a fighter.

If not, it's just fukin stupid.

I hear you bro.:biggthump

Malius
04-26-2011, 12:37 PM
Agbeko was a too big a jump I think too fast, I watched it and though Agbeko won easily, and I'm Aussie/Vic supporter. I think he has done alot and his record isn't filled with bums.

Sure he has lost a few times but always bounces back. Maybe another big win cements his legacy.

Pastrano
04-26-2011, 12:48 PM
Agbeko was a too big a jump I think too fast, I watched it and though Agbeko won easily, and I'm Aussie/Vic supporter. I think he has done alot and his record isn't filled with bums.

Sure he has lost a few times but always bounces back. Maybe another big win cements his legacy.

And that win may be Donaire!:D :boxing: Every1 forgets Vic was doing well in that fight until he lounged in carelessly and got koed. So no way should Donaire now have an easy time with Vic, in the rematch. It may produce a classic, a FOTY.

IronDanHamza
04-26-2011, 01:45 PM
I have the world of respect for Vic and he is a very entertaining fighter.

But I don't think he is HOF calibur personally, atleast yet.

New England
04-26-2011, 02:15 PM
he'll certainly have his name on the ballot at this point in my estimation


he's had a good sturdy run of it and has enjoyed a good stretch of time at the top, especially considering he's so small, and smaller men usually get used up quickly


as of right now i don't think he's quite there

he was a monster coming up, and had a great undefeated run

donaire exposed him (only later to be recognized as perhaps the best young fighter on the planet)
agbeko outpointed him sturdily in a competitive fight
and mares did likewise in my eyes.
split decision d with Z gorres in the phillipines



he'll be remembered as one of the best punching flyweights of recent memory
the dude could bomb a guy out with one shot at 112
only a few men in history can say that
when he was a come forward destroyer at 112 his left hand was one of the most dangerous weapons in the sport
he'll go down as a warrior, as well. he never backed down from anything, and even when he was dead to right against donaire, he did his best to gain his feet. a lesser man says **** this, and finds a soft spot on the canvas.)
other than the donaire rematch (which his team avoided like the plague) he fought virtually everybody he could get in the ring


and he did become a more subtle boxer as his career progressed. he looked very good against perez on saturday performing largely as a boxer.

in my eyes he's got some serious work to do to get in
but he's certainly worthy of being on the ballot
and i consider him a great fighter

Scott9945
04-26-2011, 08:52 PM
And that win may be Donaire!:D :boxing: Every1 forgets Vic was doing well in that fight until he lounged in carelessly and got koed. So no way should Donaire now have an easy time with Vic, in the rematch. It may produce a classic, a FOTY.

If they fight now, Donaire absolutely blows Vic out. We can address this again if they ever actually do sign to fight.

Steak
04-26-2011, 09:09 PM
I dont see how he is HOF, unless he gets really lucky and no one is illegible at the same time as him.

someone like Iran Barkley aint getting in, and hes accomplished more than Darchinyan...and Darchinyan aint exactly the most famous boxer today either.

Walt Liquor
04-26-2011, 11:38 PM
I dont see how he is HOF, unless he gets really lucky and no one is illegible at the same time as him.

someone like Iran Barkley aint getting in, and hes accomplished more than Darchinyan...and Darchinyan aint exactly the most famous boxer today either.

no way first ballot.

darch might not be the most "famous" but his fights are packed with his supporters and almost all of them are on major boxing networks.

2 more good wins at 118 and i think he's gotta be up for consideration

Boxing Bob
04-27-2011, 01:08 AM
because they only let 3 in per year, its hard to see a scenario that he makes it. I believe he is a quality fighter though.

Pastrano
04-27-2011, 08:06 AM
I dont see how he is HOF, unless he gets really lucky and no one is illegible at the same time as him.

someone like Iran Barkley aint getting in, and hes accomplished more than Darchinyan...and Darchinyan aint exactly the most famous boxer today either.

Like WHAT?!? Getting a lucky shot ko win and a gift decision over Hearns?! BS! Barkley got beat by any other top fighter he fought, he was garbage and had only one way of fighting-coming forward and swinging like a robot.

Vic on the other hand beat all the best opposition as a super flyweight and almost all the best at flyweight, with the exception of Donaire. And now he's starting to look good at bantam. Barkley's only really impressive title capture was against Darrin Van Horn, an overated fighter.

Scott9945
04-27-2011, 11:16 AM
Like WHAT?!? Getting a lucky shot ko win and a gift decision over Hearns?! BS! Barkley got beat by any other top fighter he fought, he was garbage and had only one way of fighting-coming forward and swinging like a robot.

Vic on the other hand beat all the best opposition as a super flyweight and almost all the best at flyweight, with the exception of Donaire. And now he's starting to look good at bantam. Barkley's only really impressive title capture was against Darrin Van Horn, an overated fighter.

What gave you the impression that Barkley's decision win over Hearns was a gift?

Pastrano
04-27-2011, 11:55 AM
What gave you the impression that Barkley's decision win over Hearns was a gift?

The fact that I SAW and SCORED it.:rolleyes: It was a BS decision, Tommy won clearly. It was the kd that did it, but it was no big kd really, Tommy was just off balance. I had Tommy clearly ahead, there were quite a lot of close rounds, but most of them shoulda been given to Tommy the Hitman.

Scott9945
04-27-2011, 12:27 PM
The fact that I SAW and SCORED it.:rolleyes: It was a BS decision, Tommy won clearly. It was the kd that did it, but it was no big kd really, Tommy was just off balance. I had Tommy clearly ahead, there were quite a lot of close rounds, but most of them shoulda been given to Tommy the Hitman.

I watched that fight live on PPV, and it was clear that Barkley won. There was no controversy or protests about that decision either. And you're kidding yourself if you don't think Barkely hurt Hearns several times in that fight.

Pastrano
04-27-2011, 12:30 PM
I watched that fight live on PPV, and it was clear that Barkley won. There was no controversy or protests about that decision either. And you're kidding yourself if you don't think Barkely hurt Hearns several times in that fight.
Thank you for your opinion but frankly...it stinks.:D

Scott9945
04-27-2011, 12:38 PM
Thank you for your opinion but frankly...it stinks.:D

Okay...and good luck with all your biased boxing agendas. :biggthump:

BigStereotype
04-27-2011, 03:02 PM
Thank you for your opinion but frankly...it stinks.:D

A greener Donaire was outboxing Darchinyan at his best weight. If they rematched, it would be murder. Donaire has absurd power and excellent skills, precisely what he needs to pick apart Darchinyan's wild brawler style. It would be another one punch KO, I promise you. Try listening to other people for once.

Pastrano
04-27-2011, 03:42 PM
A greener Donaire was outboxing Darchinyan at his best weight. If they rematched, it would be murder. Donaire has absurd power and excellent skills, precisely what he needs to pick apart Darchinyan's wild brawler style. It would be another one punch KO, I promise you. Try listening to other people for once.

You mean people like you? No thanks.:rolleyes: I trust my own judgment. And that judgment tells me Donaire got a free ko that night, he won't get another one. A free ko means Vic didn't think and rushed in and made his job too easy. If u WATCH the fight u'll see that Donaire was not dominant in the first 4 rounds. But its all a waste telling you this. You got your own blind worship and thats it.

I do give Donaire props, why can't you give Vic some??

Scott9945
04-27-2011, 05:29 PM
You mean people like you? No thanks.:rolleyes: I trust my own judgment. And that judgment tells me Donaire got a free ko that night, he won't get another one. A free ko means Vic didn't think and rushed in and made his job too easy. If u WATCH the fight u'll see that Donaire was not dominant in the first 4 rounds. But its all a waste telling you this. You got your own blind worship and thats it.

I do give Donaire props, why can't you give Vic some??

So you really think that Donaire hasn't improved more over the years? And you really think that Darchinyan is the better bantamweight of the two? Seriously?

BigStereotype
04-27-2011, 06:29 PM
You mean people like you? No thanks.:rolleyes: I trust my own judgment. And that judgment tells me Donaire got a free ko that night, he won't get another one. A free ko means Vic didn't think and rushed in and made his job too easy. If u WATCH the fight u'll see that Donaire was not dominant in the first 4 rounds. But its all a waste telling you this. You got your own blind worship and thats it.

I do give Donaire props, why can't you give Vic some??

I do! I love to watch him fight. He's just not on Donaire's level.

Walt Liquor
04-27-2011, 07:33 PM
A greener Donaire was outboxing Darchinyan at his best weight. If they rematched, it would be murder. Donaire has absurd power and excellent skills, precisely what he needs to pick apart Darchinyan's wild brawler style. It would be another one punch KO, I promise you. Try listening to other people for once.


Ithought the fight was very close at the time donaire put him to sleep.

Scott9945
04-27-2011, 07:40 PM
Ithought the fight was very close at the time donaire put him to sleep.

Maybe so, but the bottom line is that Darchinyan didn't even make it half way through the fight.

BennyST
04-29-2011, 01:21 AM
I think he's a HOFer. Not first ballot, as that is reserved for the true greats of the game usually. But, I think he's one of the very best and certainly one of the most overlooked champions of the last decade for what he's achieved and how he's gone about it.

He's had a better run and fought more top fighters/champs than just about any other fighter not named Pac over the years and has many underrated wins. His win over Pacheco is highly overlooked imo.

Anyway, I think a title win at 118 would cement it, but as it stands now I do think he's in at some point.

Pastrano: he didn't beat Agbeko and he wasn't doing that well against Donaire and wouldn't do any better now. Donaire literally stands head and shoulders over him. Literally. That alone would make it very, very difficult for Vic to beat him. Donaire shouldn't be, and probably never should, have been a Flyweight. He's as big as most lightweights in the ring. I was rewatching his fight recently with Marquez and it looks scary and disturbing. It genuinely looks like a flyweight is fighting a fighter from 140. Go watch it again.

Vic can't beat that type of fighter that has the skill Donaire does. It would be tough going if Doniare was an actual normal sized flyweight. His speed, power and counter skill are enough to deal with, then you have the fact he's as big as any 135 pound fighter today and it's as good as done.

Despite that one fight, and that should in no way hold him out of the HOF (would you say the same of Montiel who got more brutally knocked out in two rounds?), he has had an amazing career and still has some great opportunities left but is fast approaching the end at 36. Great underrated little big man.

forget
04-29-2011, 04:10 AM
Darchinyan's career isn't done yet but if he retired today I couldn't see him making it.

BallisticAffair
04-29-2011, 04:15 AM
Every1 forgets Vic was doing well in that fight until he lounged in carelessly and got koed
Uh, hardly. He landed some shots, but any reasonable scorer had it 39-37 at the stoppage (by which time Vic's eyes were cut and swelling) and Darchinyan was just one mistimed lunge away from being laid out for every second of that fight. Donaire was the general, by turns countering and attacking Vic and hitting his body, and was timing him for the inevitable big one the whole 5 rounds.


Yeah, Vic just "lounged in" that one time and Donaire got lucky enough to catch him with the same left hook he was catching a lunging Vic with all night. :rolleyes:


At bantam, forgetaboutit. Vic gets destroyed. Donaire can take Vic's bombs, of which few would land, and Vic can't take Donaire's, which would land soon into the fight. Quick and brutal is how it would go down. Darchinyan will never be on Donaire's level is all.


I have a lot of time and respect for The Armenian Bull, though.





BTW, can a moderator do something about the guy who unnecessarily tells other posters that their views "stink" in what should be a civil, scholarly subforum, please?

One more round
04-29-2011, 05:05 AM
Vic is a quality fighter and his level of opposition and title wins makes him one of the most underrated fighters around imo.

BallisticAffair
04-29-2011, 10:54 AM
Vic is a quality fighter and his level of opposition and title wins makes him one of the most underrated fighters around imo.
This I agree with.




A week ago, I made some remarks in praise of Vic,

LOL, exactly.


Darchinyan is a great heel.


Even if he's hard for many to actually like, he should've won everyone's respect by the way he bounced back after the heavy loss to Donaire, rededicating and adjusting his style to crush the highly favored Mijares. Then making further adjustments to become a serious contender threat at bantam. At his age. His style, though ugly, lends itself to eventful, exciting fights, too.


Definitely near the top of my list of most underrated prizefighters of this past decade.


So, yeah, I'm with you.

Walt Liquor
04-29-2011, 06:42 PM
I think he's a HOFer. Not first ballot, as that is reserved for the true greats of the game usually. But, I think he's one of the very best and certainly one of the most overlooked champions of the last decade for what he's achieved and how he's gone about it.

He's had a better run and fought more top fighters/champs than just about any other fighter not named Pac over the years and has many underrated wins. His win over Pacheco is highly overlooked imo.

Anyway, I think a title win at 118 would cement it, but as it stands now I do think he's in at some point.

Pastrano: he didn't beat Agbeko and he wasn't doing that well against Donaire and wouldn't do any better now. Donaire literally stands head and shoulders over him. Literally. That alone would make it very, very difficult for Vic to beat him. Donaire shouldn't be, and probably never should, have been a Flyweight. He's as big as most lightweights in the ring. I was rewatching his fight recently with Marquez and it looks scary and disturbing. It genuinely looks like a flyweight is fighting a fighter from 140. Go watch it again.

Vic can't beat that type of fighter that has the skill Donaire does. It would be tough going if Doniare was an actual normal sized flyweight. His speed, power and counter skill are enough to deal with, then you have the fact he's as big as any 135 pound fighter today and it's as good as done.

Despite that one fight, and that should in no way hold him out of the HOF (would you say the same of Montiel who got more brutally knocked out in two rounds?), he has had an amazing career and still has some great opportunities left but is fast approaching the end at 36. Great underrated little big man.

this guy also.......

I put pacheco first becaues it was such a good win at the time. not your typical colombian banger and was a damn good fighter.

vic ended up punishing and folding him- he was never the same.