View Full Version : How does a prime Tyson shape up against other top HWs?


fight_professor
04-24-2011, 06:02 PM
Prime Tyson (85-89) is the single most exhilarating boxer of alltime. Even now, decades later, one gets goose bumps watching a prime Mike spark fighters in a round for two.

I know Mike didnt last that long as a prime fighter, really just those 4/5 years and he fell away massively. But amongst great heavyweight fighters, who do you feel could have beaten a peak Tyson?

His speed and power, together with combination punching, were simply awesome.

I can see the case for peak Ali (agree that prime Ali beats prime MT 7/10 times) but must honestly feel that no one else at their peak would best a peak Tyson more then he would best them.

Opinions.

fight_professor
04-24-2011, 06:11 PM
Also, I suppose a prime Foreman (early 70's version) may have a better then even shot. Both monstrous hitters, except GF has the height advantage and could maximize the uppercut against Tyson.

Barn
04-24-2011, 07:14 PM
Ali, Liston Louis, and Formean beat him without doubt.

Holyfield and Tunney, has a good chance.

Bowe Holmes, Dempsey, are even

I think he would beat Frazier, JJ, Lewis and Rock

BigStereotype
04-24-2011, 07:42 PM
Muhammad Ali - Ali would find a way to win. It's what he did. Better fighter, kind of a style disadvantage for Tyson, who would have a lot of trouble landing those bombs. Ali could wear him out and stop him but more likely win it by decision.
Joe Louis - This is a hell of a fight. Both fast, accurate, powerful combination punchers, they go at it until one chin fails. They both had pretty good defense, too, so it could last a little longer than your typical slugfest. But somebody is getting stopped, no doubt about it. I'd pick Louis over Tyson, but Tyson could definitely cold-**** Louis if he got an open shot.
Sonny Liston - Liston seems to be a popular choice to win convincingly but I don't know. I'd have to see more footage of him at his very best (from what I've seen, there's not much) to say "oh yeah, he beats Tyson." But he has that thudding power jab and absolutely vicious power coupled with a very solid chin.
Larry Holmes - Keeps him on the end of the jab all night. UD Win for Holmes.
Evander Holyfield - 50/50 fight, I think.
Rocky Marciano - Tyson is too big and too fast for Rocky.
Lennox Lewis - Another close fight, but I think that Lewis could keep Tyson at bay long enough to send him to sleep with that massive right hand.
Jack Dempsey - Similar power, faster hands, better chin, better inside fighter, better boxer...Dempsey wins a thriller by KO.
Joe Frazier - Tyson is to Frazier as Dempsey is to Tyson. Tyson KO.
Wlad Klitschko - Tyson chops Wlad down with a body and head assault, early stoppage.
Vitali Klitschko - Tyson gets the clear upperhand in a hard fought war, winning by either
late stoppage or obvious decision.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some guys, just weighing in.

pacquia0
04-24-2011, 07:45 PM
The Tyson who fought Spinks beats any heavyweight in history. I cant see Ali lasting more than 3 rounds against that Tyson.

IronDanHamza
04-24-2011, 07:54 PM
I think Mike Tyson could be atleast competitive with most Heavyweights.

I struggle to see how he beats a prime Ali. Ali would frustrate Tyson with his movement and won't allow Tyson to fight from his prefered mid range. And even if he does get in the position to land clean shots, Ali's incredibly chin is going to hold up to whatever Tyson lands on him. The only outcome I see is an Ali descision or even late TKO.

70's Ali he may have more of a chance against. The times where he is stationary Tyson may be able to land some viscious shots to the body and head but even then Ali is not getting stopped. If a shot to **** Ali won't even go down to a prime Larry Holmes literally pummling him from pillar to post I just can't see a game 70's Ali getting stopped. And he is not going to lose on points to Tyson.

On his best day, his sheer brute strength, speed, power, chin, head movement, along with many other great attributes would give anyone problems.

But, Tyson has showed when he can't bully you and fight how he wants, he gets concerned and frustrated. Against the likes of Liston, Foreman and even Lewis, he will have alot of problems with.

I lean on him over Lewis but against Foreman and Liston I would probably lean on them, although again I think Tyson does have a legit chance to win and would be great great fights.

I see him beating Rocky, but would be a great fight and Rocky wouldn't go down without a fight and if he lands that right it could be all over, regardless to Tysons good whiskers.

Louis beats him, too much in his locker.

That will do for me.

As Tyson says he doesn't care if people think he would win or lose to the likes of names we have mentioned. He is honoured by the simple fact he shares a sentance with these great Champions. And the many others I have missed out.

Daddy T
04-24-2011, 08:02 PM
yeah the Tyson that fought spinks/marvis Frazier would give any fighter in history a real hard fight. The two stand out guys that i see as favourites to get the better of him are Ali ... wins via UD and Foreman as Tyson's style would be perfect for big George. Other than that you'd be mighty brave to put money on anybody via prime Tyson - thats not to say someone like Joe Louis or Larry Holmes wouldn't beat him, its just I wouldn't put money on it.

Scott9945
04-24-2011, 08:05 PM
The Tyson who fought Spinks beats any heavyweight in history. I cant see Ali lasting more than 3 rounds against that Tyson.

Have you looked at Ali's record against feared sluggers? Tyson was a frontrunner. Ali never lost to that type of fighter. Ali takes Tyson into deep water and drowns him.

pacquia0
04-24-2011, 08:43 PM
Have you looked at Ali's record against feared sluggers? Tyson was a frontrunner. Ali never lost to that type of fighter. Ali takes Tyson into deep water and drowns him.

Its my opinion that Tyson would beat Ali. I dont expect everyone to agree with it though as Tyson peek was short so he doesnt have the longetivity to prove to everyone how great he was ability wise. Ali and most other greats take a Tyson without Kevin Rooney as his trainer into deep water I agree with that.

Tyson KOed Holmes and Spinks guys with Jabs better or at least nearly as good as Ali. Tysons speed in footwork and handspeed makes him one of the few guys who wouldnt be totally outmatched in those departments against Ali. Alis unorthodox defence, will not be effective in dealing with Tysons fast precise combinations. He has a great chin, but he is vulnerable to flush shots. The right shot or combination can KO anyone regardless of chin. Tyson was a great finisher also and his left hook was very good which is a punch Ali has trouble with. Tyson KOed people with his right and diferent type of punches though as well. JMO.

SBleeder
04-24-2011, 08:55 PM
Tony Tucker, a guy with Ali's style but about 1/10 of Ali's ability, was handling Tyson until he broke his hand. Tyson never landed any substantially damaging blows on Tucker throughout 12 rounds... after Tucker landed a decent shot in the first round, Tyson never really tried to take Tucker out.

Quick Tillis, a guy with Ali's style but about 1/100 of Ali's ability, took 4 out of 10 rounds, nearly handing Tyson a defeat on the way up through the ranks. Again, Tyson never hurt an aging Tillis.

Holmes, at 38 years of age, had to use a HoverRound Scooter to get to the ring against Tyson, and he still managed to keep a decent jab in Tyson's face for awhile.

Tyson never tried to swarm his way in on a murderous puncher like Liston or Foreman, guys who wouldn't have feared Tyson the way such "champions" like Pinklon Thomas, Boneclutcher Smith, or Trevor Berbick did.

All in all, Tyson's a tough matchup for most heavyweights in history. However, Ali, Liston, Frazier, Holmes, Foreman, Holyfield, and Dempsey all dispatch him with relative ease.

On a side-note, I never understood how Tyson is to be considered "exhilarating"... it was just attack, attack, attack. He let himself be tied up on the inside. And he never displayed the warrior mentality that swarmers like Frazier and Dempsey did (both of whom beat Tyson by wearing him down).

Barn
04-24-2011, 08:56 PM
Its my opinion that Tyson would beat Ali. I dont expect everyone to agree with it though as Tyson peek was short so he doesnt have the longetivity to prove to everyone how great he was ability wise. Ali and most other greats take a Tyson without Kevin Rooney as his trainer into deep water I agree with that.

Tyson KOed Holmes and Spinks guys with Jabs better or at least nearly as good as Ali. Tysons speed in footwork and handspeed makes him one of the few guys who wouldnt be totally outmatched in those departments against Ali. Alis unorthodox defence, will not be effective in dealing with Tysons fast precise combinations. He has a great chin, but he is vulnerable to flush shots. The right shot or combination can KO anyone regardless of chin. Tyson was a great finisher also and his left hook was very good which is a punch Ali has trouble with. Tyson KOed people with his right and diferent type of punches though as well. JMO.
Holmes was 38, and Spinks was never a great HW. Even Futch admits that.

pacquia0
04-24-2011, 09:06 PM
Holmes was 38, and Spinks was never a great HW. Even Futch admits that.

Bowe's win over Holyfield and Ali's win over Foreman being the exceptions. No other great has a win over a prime great.

Oh and all greats struggled with lesser opposition including Ali.

Barn
04-24-2011, 09:11 PM
Bowe's win over Holyfield and Ali's win over Foreman being the exceptions. No other great has a win over a prime great.

Oh and all greats struggled with lesser opposition including Ali.
I'm confident there are much more examples that the ones you listed :lol1:

Of course but, he is referring to styles AND ability not ability on its own.

fight_professor
04-24-2011, 09:19 PM
T
Frazier & Dempsey all dispatch him with relative ease.




Dude, really?

I have seen every fight MT has ever had and loads of Smoke too. Tyson is a better version of both these guys. Ok Joe had more heart, but less speed, power, a less good chin and inferior combo punching. Tyson would do to him what Foreman did.

As for Dempsey. Again, just feel Mike is too powerful and quick. A slug fest that sees the bigger force winning.

Also, Mike would KO Rocky who took far too many shots for my liking. I am a HW historian (moreso then the other divisions), and I can see cases for some besides Ali and Big GF who top Tyson for me. Holmes with his movement and Louis with his diverse skills, but honestly feel in a h2h, Tyson would spark Louis who had a suspect chin.

pacquia0
04-24-2011, 09:34 PM
I'm confident there are much more examples that the ones you listed :lol1:

Of course but, he is referring to styles AND ability not ability on its own.

I meant at heavyweight.

Do you dispute the fact Spinks and Holmes both had great jabs ?

fight_professor
04-27-2011, 10:11 PM
So where do you rate MT on your alltime hw list? Both h2h and on overall achievements?

lefthook2daliva
04-28-2011, 12:04 AM
The Tyson who fought Spinks beats any heavyweight in history. I cant see Ali lasting more than 3 rounds against that Tyson.

Spinks was scared to death. His manager or trainer or whoever was talkin' big smack and you could see that Spinks probably had to change his shorts after the interview. That matters alot.

Big George would not have been scared, it's MT that would have been scared.

Clay/Ali would not have been scared.

Nor Smokin' Joe.

Nor Larry Holmes

Nor Vitali Klitshko for that matter. Mike would have been scared.

I think prime Riddick Bowe has a good chance as well.

Barn
04-28-2011, 04:22 AM
So where do you rate MT on your alltime hw list? Both h2h and on overall achievements?
I think I have him at 11-10 in my ATG list and in a H2H list I'd probably have him around 6.

Barn
04-28-2011, 04:23 AM
I meant at heavyweight.

Do you dispute the fact Spinks and Holmes both had great jabs ?
Look at Holmes prime piston jab then watch the fight again.

JAB5239
04-28-2011, 04:33 AM
I think I have him at 11-10 in my ATG list and in a H2H list I'd probably have him around 6.

H2h lists are impossible. There will always be a scenario where one great fighter beats another. Greatness, in my opinion, should be defined over an entire career. It is still subjective, but not nearly as much.

bklynboy
04-28-2011, 10:52 AM
The Tyson who fought Spinks beats any heavyweight in history. I cant see Ali lasting more than 3 rounds against that Tyson.

Take a look at how good Tyson did against James Tillis and Bonecrusher Smith. Yes. Bonecrusher was there to survive. Yes Tyson won just about all the rounds but Tyson looked bad. (Of course it's hard to look good against someone just trying to survive)

Tyson was awesome. Loved him. But in retrospect we see that he didn't develop into a great champion. Maybe if he had to work a few more years and have to take the belt from a prime Holmes or a prime Lewis (mixing dates around to make a point) then -maybe - he would have developed the *will* to fight when things were going badly.

bklynboy
04-28-2011, 11:00 AM
Dude, really?

I have seen every fight MT has ever had and loads of Smoke too. Tyson is a better version of both these guys. Ok Joe had more heart, but less speed, power, a less good chin and inferior combo punching. Tyson would do to him what Foreman did.

As for Dempsey. Again, just feel Mike is too powerful and quick. A slug fest that sees the bigger force winning.

Also, Mike would KO Rocky who took far too many shots for my liking. I am a HW historian (moreso then the other divisions), and I can see cases for some besides Ali and Big GF who top Tyson for me. Holmes with his movement and Louis with his diverse skills, but honestly feel in a h2h, Tyson would spark Louis who had a suspect chin.

H2H I would put Tyson above Frazier and Marciano and even with Dempsey. BUT the key here is if Tyson doesn't KTFO in the first six rounds then things change quickly - especially in the championship rounds (13,14 and 15).

physiker
04-28-2011, 12:02 PM
Ali easily over Tyson 9 out of 10 times. Prime dancing Ali an easy UD or maybe even late KO.

Foreman KOs Tyson every time.

I see a prime Larry Holmes getting a UD.

All the others, I think a pre-Douglas Tyson would KO or at least UD. Mostly KO. Most of the other champs would be an easy KO for prime Tyson.

He was that fast and powerful. You need either super big and powerful like Foreman or else dancing, jabbing thinking, quick extraordinaire like Ali, and the lesser version--Holmes.

Ziggy Stardust
04-28-2011, 01:13 PM
H2h lists are impossible. There will always be a scenario where one great fighter beats another. Greatness, in my opinion, should be defined over an entire career. It is still subjective, but not nearly as much.

There's a bit of a terminology gap: Lately when people talk about rating a fighter h2h it seems to me that what they're really referring to is rating them by ability.

Poet

joseph5620
04-28-2011, 02:28 PM
I meant at heavyweight.

Do you dispute the fact Spinks and Holmes both had great jabs ?



Holmes was not the same fighter when he fought Tyson and that includes the Holmes jab. And Spinks Jab (especially as a heavyweight) was not comparable to Ali's in any way.

Barn
05-04-2011, 12:34 PM
Ali easily over Tyson 9 out of 10 times. Prime dancing Ali an easy UD or maybe even late KO.

Foreman KOs Tyson every time.

I see a prime Larry Holmes getting a UD.

All the others, I think a pre-Douglas Tyson would KO or at least UD. Mostly KO. Most of the other champs would be an easy KO for prime Tyson.

He was that fast and powerful. You need either super big and powerful like Foreman or else dancing, jabbing thinking, quick extraordinaire like Ali, and the lesser version--Holmes.
What are you views on a Liston fight.

I think Liston breaks him in everyway.

Marchegiano
05-04-2011, 11:19 PM
IMO Prime Tyson can beat anyone.

physiker
05-05-2011, 01:25 AM
What are you views on a Liston fight.

I think Liston breaks him in everyway.

Well Tyson vs other hard punchers like Liston or Frazier sure would be interesting. Some consider Liston a slightly smaller Foreman--in other words a monstrous HW.

RE Liston, we may have to consider two Listons. Pre-Clay and post Clay. Pre-Clay maybe a close fight with Tyson. Winner would depend on who has the better chin, as they will both land bombs. Then, of course, we have the two Tysons--pre- and post-Douglas.

Pre-Clay/Ali Liston vs pre-Douglas Tyson would be a hell of a fight. Probably come down to either better chin or intangibles--like liniment!

In general, I lean towards a pre-Douglas Tyson, but I wouldn't bet much on it, as a Liston bomb could end things quickly.

Ziggy Stardust
05-05-2011, 03:32 AM
Well Tyson vs other hard punchers like Liston or Frazier sure would be interesting. Some consider Liston a slightly smaller Foreman--in other words a monstrous HW.

RE Liston, we may have to consider two Listons. Pre-Clay and post Clay. Pre-Clay maybe a close fight with Tyson. Winner would depend on who has the better chin, as they will both land bombs. Then, of course, we have the two Tysons--pre- and post-Douglas.

Pre-Clay/Ali Liston vs pre-Douglas Tyson would be a hell of a fight. Probably come down to either better chin or intangibles--like liniment!

In general, I lean towards a pre-Douglas Tyson, but I wouldn't bet much on it, as a Liston bomb could end things quickly.

Stylistic matchups in boxing that are determinative are exceedingly rare.....this happens to be one of them though. Trying to swarm Foreman and Liston (Foreman with a longer reach, better jab, and better boxing skills) is the equivalent of signing your own death warrent. Tyson was a swarmer pure an simple: It was dictated by his reach and body type. Put him in against Foreman and Liston and he WILL get stopped, do not pass go and do not collect $200.

Poet

physiker
05-05-2011, 09:11 AM
It's not that simple at all. You have to learn and see what Liston did against the actual opponents who took him the distance or had him in trouble, but didn't finish him. And then-Clay was not the only one who got blinded. One example, Eddie Machen--who was doing well against Liston until he got blinded by the liniment treatment--was NO Mike Tyson. (Machen went the distance, and Liston lost 3 points for hitting him in the nuts.) There were others, who also were not of Tyson's calibre.

Bottom line is Tyson had no chance against Foreman. He had a decent shot vs Liston. The latter could have degenerated into something "special."

A ball bashing, ear biting, liniment-soiled extraordinaire of titans!

Barn
05-05-2011, 11:43 AM
It's not that simple at all. You have to learn and see what Liston did against the actual opponents who took him the distance or had him in trouble, but didn't finish him. And then-Clay was not the only one who got blinded. One example, Eddie Machen--who was doing well against Liston until he got blinded by the liniment treatment--was NO Mike Tyson. (Machen went the distance, and Liston lost 3 points for hitting him in the nuts.) There were others, who also were not of Tyson's calibre.

Bottom line is Tyson had no chance against Foreman. He had a decent shot vs Liston. The latter could have degenerated into something "special."

A ball bashing, ear biting, liniment-soiled extraordinaire of titans!
It's also not that simple you can pick up only single fights :)

Ziggy Stardust
05-05-2011, 03:46 PM
It's not that simple at all. You have to learn and see what Liston did against the actual opponents who took him the distance or had him in trouble, but didn't finish him. And then-Clay was not the only one who got blinded. One example, Eddie Machen--who was doing well against Liston until he got blinded by the liniment treatment--was NO Mike Tyson. (Machen went the distance, and Liston lost 3 points for hitting him in the nuts.) There were others, who also were not of Tyson's calibre.

Bottom line is Tyson had no chance against Foreman. He had a decent shot vs Liston. The latter could have degenerated into something "special."

A ball bashing, ear biting, liniment-soiled extraordinaire of titans!

And Foreman lost to Jimmy Young.....who was not as good a fighter as Eddie Machen. The point is Machen didn't try and swarm Liston: He was a slick boxer not a swarmer.

I'm very familiar with Liston's career.....in all likelihood more than YOU are. You on the otherhand seem to buy into the myth that Liston was some kind of basketcase just waiting to melt down (hence your use of the term "special"). If anything you've just described Tyson NOT Liston.

My suggestion to you would be to actually study the careers of fighters rather than swallow the silly myths peddled by Bert Sugar.

Poet

The Surgeon
05-05-2011, 04:09 PM
Theres not a fighter that ever lived who Tyson wouldnt have had a shot at beating

Ziggy Stardust
05-05-2011, 04:20 PM
Theres not a fighter that ever lived who Tyson wouldnt have had a shot at beating

I'd give him chance, even if it's an outside chance, against any of the ATG Heavies.....except for Foreman and Liston. As a general rule I believe any ATG Heavy has a chance at beating any other ATG Heavy on any given night unless there's one of those rare prohibitive style matchups in play. Unfortunately for Tyson (and Marciano and Frazier) short-armed swarmers against Foreman and Liston happens to be one of those rare matchups. Even Cus D'Amato told Tyson that when he was training him.

Poet

The Surgeon
05-05-2011, 05:00 PM
I'd give him chance, even if it's an outside chance, against any of the ATG Heavies.....except for Foreman and Liston. As a general rule I believe any ATG Heavy has a chance at beating any other ATG Heavy on any given night unless there's one of those rare prohibitive style matchups in play. Unfortunately for Tyson (and Marciano and Frazier) short-armed swarmers against Foreman and Liston happens to be one of those rare matchups. Even Cus D'Amato told Tyson that when he was training him.

Poet

I think we have had this debate before. If as a Tyson fan there was one fighter id like Mike to swerve it would be Big George, i dont like his odds! But i honestly think he beats Liston, mabey i over rate Tyson - i hear that on these boards quite often but i just call it like i see it. In the most simple breakdown possible i think Tysons speed trumps Listons reach/jab

Ziggy Stardust
05-05-2011, 05:17 PM
I think we have had this debate before. If as a Tyson fan there was one fighter id like Mike to swerve it would be Big George, i dont like his odds! But i honestly think he beats Liston, mabey i over rate Tyson - i hear that on these boards quite often but i just call it like i see it. In the most simple breakdown possible i think Tysons speed trumps Listons reach/jab

More the case I think you're underrating Liston rather than overrating Tyson. Liston is basically Foreman with a longer reach, better jab, and better boxing ability.....and very nearly as powerful a puncher as Foreman. Liston also had better stamina but I don't think that's going to come into play here.

Truth is, having Tyson in your top-10 Heavies isn't overrating him. Having him top-3.....now THAT'S overrating him :cool9:

Poet

SBleeder
05-05-2011, 05:35 PM
More the case I think you're underrating Liston rather than overrating Tyson. Liston is basically Foreman with a longer reach, better jab, and better boxing ability.....and slightly more powerful of a puncher than Foreman. Liston also had better stamina but I don't think that's going to come into play here.

Truth is, having Tyson in your top-10 Heavies isn't overrating him. Having him top-3.....now THAT'S overrating him :cool9:

Poet

Fixed for you.

Ziggy Stardust
05-05-2011, 05:39 PM
Fixed for you.

LOL! Naw, I give Foreman the edge in power.....though not by that much :chuckle9:

Poet

Walt Liquor
05-05-2011, 09:57 PM
not one vote for big daddy???

physiker
05-06-2011, 02:30 AM
And Foreman lost to Jimmy Young.....who was not as good a fighter as Eddie Machen. The point is Machen didn't try and swarm Liston: He was a slick boxer not a swarmer.

I'm very familiar with Liston's career.....in all likelihood more than YOU are. You on the otherhand seem to buy into the myth that Liston was some kind of basketcase just waiting to melt down (hence your use of the term "special"). If anything you've just described Tyson NOT Liston.

My suggestion to you would be to actually study the careers of fighters rather than swallow the silly myths peddled by Bert Sugar.

Poet

I never read Sugar, you must have, as you know what he says.

SeattleSeahawks
05-19-2011, 02:35 AM
liston had a better jab than foreman? really? foremans jab pushed everybody back and liston could only move 180 pounders, foreman had better footwork a better chin fought better people and was stronger. you people tend to overrated liston and underrated foreman

BigStereotype
05-19-2011, 03:18 AM
liston had a better jab than foreman? really? foremans jab pushed everybody back and liston could only move 180 pounders, foreman had better footwork a better chin fought better people and was stronger. you people tend to overrated liston and underrated foreman

Yes..........

LeG00N
05-19-2011, 03:29 AM
I think he could beat anyone...

Barn
05-19-2011, 05:27 AM
liston had a better jab than foreman? really? foremans jab pushed everybody back and liston could only move 180 pounders, foreman had better footwork a better chin fought better people and was stronger. you people tend to overrated liston and underrated foreman
Liston had MUCH better technique and posessed a greater amount of skill than Foreman.

bklynboy
05-19-2011, 12:03 PM
Liston had MUCH better technique and posessed a greater amount of skill than Foreman.

No doubt. Young Joe Foreman relied too much on his wide looping punches. Like Tyson he forgot his jab, stopped making the little adjustments. He was good at cutting off the ring and then wailing on his cornered opponent.

I think that most great heavys beat the Young Joe - with the exception of the smaller swarmers (Dempsey, Marciano and Frazier).

Ziggy Stardust
05-19-2011, 12:28 PM
liston could only move 180 pounders

You mean 180 pounders like the 210 pound Cleveland Williams? Or maybe the 211 pound Nino Valdez? :thinking9:

Joeyzagz
05-19-2011, 02:07 PM
I think Prime Tyson would lose to most elite Heavyweights. Teddy Atlas said it best when he stated " Mike never actually won a fight." A fight is when the opponent shows resistence, and Tyson folded everytime he was faced with real resistence & adversity: Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis, Williams, Mcbride.

He could probably beat Patterson, Norton and Wlad on sheer talent but he loses to any good heavyweight with the will to win.






Wlad, Patterson and maybe Holmes

SBleeder
05-19-2011, 02:18 PM
No doubt. Young Joe Foreman relied too much on his wide looping punches. Like Tyson he forgot his jab, stopped making the little adjustments. He was good at cutting off the ring and then wailing on his cornered opponent.

I think that most great heavys beat the Young Joe - with the exception of the smaller swarmers (Dempsey, Marciano and Frazier).

Young Joe Foreman? Didn't he once fight the great Thomas "Hitman" Hagler?

Ziggy Stardust
05-19-2011, 02:20 PM
Young Joe Foreman? Didn't he once fight the great Thomas "Hitman" Hagler?

Smart azz.....but still funny :hahahaha9:

bklynboy
05-19-2011, 05:33 PM
Young Joe Foreman? Didn't he once fight the great Thomas "Hitman" Hagler?

Yeah, that the one. :-) Don't know how that got past me.

Scott9945
05-19-2011, 08:50 PM
Liston had MUCH better technique and posessed a greater amount of skill than Foreman.


Foreman knew Liston pretty well, and I'd be willing to bet George would admit to this.

Barn
05-19-2011, 09:11 PM
Foreman knew Liston pretty well, and I'd be willing to bet George would admit to this.
Were they sparring partners at one point? Think I've heard people say it.
Might be wrong though.

SBleeder
05-19-2011, 09:27 PM
Were they sparring partners at one point? Think I've heard people say it.
Might be wrong though.

Yes, and Liston was purportedly the only guy who could ever back George Foreman up. I believe it.

Barn
05-19-2011, 09:37 PM
Yes, and Liston was purportedly the only guy who could ever back George Foreman up. I believe it.
I could definitely see that heppening.

I rate Liston very highliy H2H.

I have him at joint 3rd.

Ali > Liston
Ali = Louis
Liston = Louis

Just how I see it so Liston is just in third place.

joseph5620
05-19-2011, 09:54 PM
Were they sparring partners at one point? Think I've heard people say it.
Might be wrong though.



Yes they were. Shortly after Foreman won the gold in the 68 Olympics. HBO made a documentary on Liston years ago and they showed rare footage of the two training together. Foreman also talked about the sparring sessions in his book "By George". To this day, Foreman claims Liston is the only fighter who never backed up from him in the ring. But he also claims that he felt bigger and stronger than Liston. Of course sparring, especially at that stage of their careers, mean little when analyzing who would have won. But I would have paid to see them spar.

Ziggy Stardust
05-20-2011, 03:17 AM
Yes they were. Shortly after Foreman won the gold in the 68 Olympics. HBO made a documentary on Liston years ago and they showed rare footage of the two training together. Foreman also talked about the sparring sessions in his book "By George". To this day, Foreman claims Liston is the only fighter who never backed up from him in the ring. But he also claims that he felt bigger and stronger than Liston. Of course sparring, especially at that stage of their careers, mean little when analyzing who would have won. But I would have paid to see them spar.

Of course Liston was pretty washed up by that point too.

Poet