View Full Version : Willie Pep: Strong case for the p4p G.O.A.T?


Forza
04-22-2011, 05:14 PM
I've been watching a lot of pep lately. I gotta say he had probably everything. Offense, defense, footwork, speed, power, chin.

I won't say he was the p4p greatest but its either him, JCC or SRR. I think on any given day experts can agree he;s p4p the greatest that ever lived.

joseph5620
04-22-2011, 05:31 PM
I've been watching a lot of pep lately. I gotta say he had probably everything. Offense, defense, footwork, speed, power, chin.

I won't say he was the p4p greatest but its either him, JCC or SRR. I think on any given day experts can agree he;s p4p the greatest that ever lived.

No. Just No.

RubenSonny
04-22-2011, 06:23 PM
No. Just No.

That made me cringe too.

Rockin'
04-22-2011, 06:30 PM
Pep had alot of tools and he knew how to use all of them very well. He just never had the power.........Rockin':boxing:

Steak
04-22-2011, 06:41 PM
no, Pep didnt have the quality of wins that Robinson had. same with JCC.

Ryannn
04-22-2011, 07:06 PM
no

props for trying to watch more of the old fights though

TheGreatA
04-22-2011, 07:12 PM
You could argue that he's the best pure boxer to have ever fought. Even Ray Robinson stated that Pep was the best boxer he had seen. Pep did not win fights with his size, strength or ability to take a punch, but his indomitable skill.

Forza
04-22-2011, 07:28 PM
Funny the 1 person in here that knows boxing agrees with me

And what's wrong with JCC? You really don't put him in the ATG's? What are you puerto rican? We;re talking about SR here not JR

RubenSonny
04-22-2011, 07:39 PM
Funny the 1 person in here that knows boxing agrees with me

And what's wrong with JCC? You really don't put him in the ATG's? What are you puerto rican? We;re talking about SR here not JR

In terms of resume, no but I think he'd easily get in my top 10. In terms of skill hes certainly in that argument for GOAT, most people don't want to go discuss it again because an almost identical thread was posted a few days ago...oh and your also a racist troll.

NChristo
04-22-2011, 08:08 PM
Funny the 1 person in here that knows boxing agrees with me

And what's wrong with JCC? You really don't put him in the ATG's? What are you puerto rican? We;re talking about SR here not JR

TGA (Although everyone in here knows boxing..) didn't agree with you, he said you could argue he's the best 'pure' boxer to have fought, that by the way does not include Robinson, Greb, Langford, Armstrong etc. Just saying.


What has JCC done to warrant a place in discussion for the greatest, enlighten me please.

IronDanHamza
04-22-2011, 09:52 PM
He is certainly one of the greatest fighters that ever lived.

Last time I attempted to make a list he was in my Top 10.

But I can't see a case for him being #1.

As for Chavez, he's a great fighter, no doubt. But he simply isn't up there with the Willie Pep's of the world.

Barnburner
04-23-2011, 07:10 AM
Chavez is nowhere near Top 15 never mind 1.

I think Chavez gets ridiculously over-rated.

Last time I tried I had Willie Pep around 7.

pacquia0
04-23-2011, 09:31 AM
What has JCC done to warrant a place in discussion for the greatest, enlighten me please.

Nothing, apart from having the longest winning streak in boxing history. Fighting the most championship fights and making the most title defences in boxing history. Being P4P the best fighter in the world, one of the greatest 130lbers of all time, being the greatest 140lber of all time as well as a champion at lightweight.

SBleeder
04-23-2011, 09:47 AM
Nothing, apart from having the longest winning streak in boxing history. Fighting the most championship fights and making the most title defences in boxing history. Being P4P the best fighter in the world, one of the greatest 130lbers of all time, being the greatest 140lber of all time as well as a champion at lightweight.

He also holds the record for the longest winning streak in history that doesn't include a single hall of famer. For goodness sake, he was fighting guys with losing records after he became a world champion.

The only guy he beat who could be considered "great" was Rosario.

GJC
04-23-2011, 11:17 AM
He has a strong case for sure just not as strong as a few others

mrboxer
04-23-2011, 11:26 AM
pep was a good fighter in his era if he was fighting today he would get clobbered:boxing:

Vadrigar.
04-23-2011, 11:38 AM
pep was a good fighter in his era if he was fighting today he would get clobbered:boxing:

okay, so name me some fighters who would "clobber" him today?

joseph5620
04-23-2011, 12:45 PM
Chavez is nowhere near Top 15 never mind 1.I think Chavez gets ridiculously over-rated.

Last time I tried I had Willie Pep around 7.





That's exactly how I see Chavez as well. Off the top of my head I can easily think of 15 fighters greater than Chavez.

joseph5620
04-23-2011, 12:48 PM
Nothing, apart from having the longest winning streak in boxing history. Fighting the most championship fights and making the most title defences in boxing history. Being P4P the best fighter in the world, one of the greatest 130lbers of all time, being the greatest 140lber of all time as well as a champion at lightweight.

I get tired of seeing some people talking about "winning streaks" without taking into consideration the competition. If that's the case we should discuss Chavez son as an all time great.

pacquia0
04-23-2011, 01:29 PM
He also holds the record for the longest winning streak in history that doesn't include a single hall of famer. For goodness sake, he was fighting guys with losing records after he became a world champion.

The only guy he beat who could be considered "great" was Rosario.

Also beat Camacho, Ramirez and Taylor who all were elite fighters.

Who are the great fighters Ricardo Lopez beat. Mexico considers Chavez their greatest fighter.

I get tired of seeing some people talking about "winning streaks" without taking into consideration the competition. If that's the case we should discuss Chavez son as an all time great.

An unbeaten streak where you fight the most title fights in boxing history is greatness. Chavez JR isnt considered P4P NO1 and he hasnt beaten 14 world champions and tons of contenders across 3 weight classes. Chavez fought the best fighters around his weight. If you dont rate his opponents then name the guys he should have fought.

Barnburner
04-23-2011, 01:48 PM
Also beat Camacho, Ramirez and Taylor who all were elite fighters.

Who are the great fighters Ricardo Lopez beat. Mexico considers Chavez their greatest fighter.



An unbeaten streak where you fight the most title fights in boxing history is greatness. Chavez JR isnt considered P4P NO1 and he hasnt beaten 14 world champions and tons of contenders across 3 weight classes. Chavez fought the best fighters around his weight. If you dont rate his opponents then name the guys he should have fought.
I have Olivares top Mexican.

He's not saying he should have fought anybody else, he is stating he gets too much credit for a win streak consisting of nobodies.

Forza
04-23-2011, 02:22 PM
So who would you guys put over willie pep? SRR maybe, but he has many flaws ( bum of the month club, K.O loses in his prime to smaller men )

I think the racists in here can't stand the fact that p4p #1 might have been a white man.

You can really name 6 other boxers better than pep p4p? Really? I'd like to hear it

And as far as JCC his record speaks for itself

Steak
04-23-2011, 02:47 PM
Chavez's pretty record isnt what makes him an ATG. thats not a defining point of greatness, because Ive seen guys with over 100 wins that arent even close to HOF level.

Chavez's greatness is defined by the very high level of competition that he beat consistantly over a long period of time, and also his dominance over them.

that being said, I simply cannot see how someone could have Olivares over Chavez as best ever Mexican boxer. Chavez beat much more top competition, on top of being more dominant during his time.

Barnburner
04-23-2011, 02:51 PM
So who would you guys put over willie pep? SRR maybe, but he has many flaws ( bum of the month club, K.O loses in his prime to smaller men )

I think the racists in here can't stand the fact that p4p #1 might have been a white man.

You can really name 6 other boxers better than pep p4p? Really? I'd like to hear it

And as far as JCC his record speaks for itself

Bum of the month club = Joe Louis actually and they were not even bums.

Sugar Ray Robinson was only KO'd once and that was heat exhuastion past prime at LHW.

SRR only prime loss was against Middleweight Jake LaMotta.

Harry Greb > Willie Pep.

In conclusion you're a retard and your logic is flawed.

Steak
04-23-2011, 02:53 PM
Bum of the month club = Joe Louis actually and they were not even bums.

Sugar Ray Robinson was only KO'd once and that was heat exhuastion past prime at LHW.

SRR only prime loss was against Middleweight Jake LaMotta.

Harry Greb > Willie Pep.

In conclusion you're a retard and your logic is flawed.

Im almost positive that he just got Robinson mixed up with Joe Louis.

Barnburner
04-23-2011, 02:54 PM
Chavez's pretty record isnt what makes him an ATG. thats not a defining point of greatness, because Ive seen guys with over 100 wins that arent even close to HOF level.

Chavez's greatness is defined by the very high level of competition that he beat consistantly over a long period of time, and also his dominance over them.

that being said, I simply cannot see how someone could have Olivares over Chavez as best ever Mexican boxer. Chavez beat much more top competition, on top of being more dominant during his time.
Ruben Olivares beat Kid Gavilan though. :lol1:

(Seriously)

Forza
04-23-2011, 02:54 PM
I forgot this is boxing scene where you need black skin to be considered a great fighter

Bum of the month club goes for both louis and SRR, childhood friends, 2 peas in a pod. And yes they were BUMS to fluff their records.

Lamotta = 3 inches shorter and 10 pounds lighter and still beat SRR

Pep's record > greb's
peps opposition > greb's

pep > greb

Barnburner
04-23-2011, 02:56 PM
Im almost positive that he just got Robinson mixed up with Joe Louis.
Anyway Louis' only Prime loss was to match Schmeling who was only 6IB's lighter.

Son only his bum of the month club actually makes sense, and anyone who studied boxing with a breain knows they weren't bums.

And who ever rated Joe Louis at 1?

Barnburner
04-23-2011, 02:58 PM
I forgot this is boxing scene where you need black skin to be considered a great fighter

Bum of the month club goes for both louis and SRR, childhood friends, 2 peas in a pod. And yes they were BUMS to fluff their records.

Lamotta = 3 inches shorter and 10 pounds lighter and still beat SRR

Pep's record > greb's
peps opposition > greb's

pep > greb
Jake LaMotta was 16 heavier.

Greb is White.

Greb > Pep.

Forza
04-23-2011, 03:00 PM
You're dumb if you actually think that

TheGreatA
04-23-2011, 03:00 PM
I don't think this Forza character needs to be taken seriously.

Barnburner
04-23-2011, 03:01 PM
I don't think this Forza character needs to be taken seriously.
Good to see you back.

joseph5620
04-23-2011, 04:24 PM
So who would you guys put over willie pep? SRR maybe, but he has many flaws ( bum of the month club, K.O loses in his prime to smaller men )

I think the racists in here can't stand the fact that p4p #1 might have been a white man.

You can really name 6 other boxers better than pep p4p? Really? I'd like to hear it

And as far as JCC his record speaks for itself

It sure does. And it clearly shows he has no case for best fighter in history. As for the other BS you're crying about, take it to NSB where somebody might actually care.

GJC
04-23-2011, 04:40 PM
I think the racists in here can't stand the fact that p4p #1 might have been a white man.


Think you maybe lost in here.
Nothing to do with colour put a case for Greb and you'll probably get more support. Btw I doubt there are many bigger Pep fans than me

IronDanHamza
04-23-2011, 07:47 PM
You're dumb if you actually think that

Yet you just said Lamotta was 10 lbs lighter than Robinson when he beat him yet he was actually 16 lbs heavier?

You said Robinson was KO'd in his prime by smaller men, yet he wasn't.

You said "this is boxing scene where you need black skin to be great" yet in the very post you were responding to the poster was talking about Harry Greb's greatness.

I mean, come on. Get a clue.