View Full Version : Boxings Holy Trinity


JAB5239
04-21-2011, 01:36 AM
In all of boxing there has never been 3 fighters who's careers crossed at the same time and fought each other and so many other great fighters during the same period. Including each other I count 18 Hall of fame inductee's and 16 different world champions who were past, present or future. All 3 are top 20 all time p4p fighters in my opinion.

My question is, is there any trio of fighters who's careers crossed at the same time that can equal the combined achievements of Tony Canzoneri, Barney Ross and Jimmy McLarnin? And, what order of greatness would you put these 3 fighters in and where do you rank them all time?

Steak
04-21-2011, 01:40 AM
Charles, Moore and Louis.

If Louis doesnt count...hm. Charles, Moore and Maxim/Harold Johnson.

Moore and Charles are top 10 all time.

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 01:42 AM
Willie Pep, Paddy DeMarco and Sandy Saddler don't come close. Ali, Frazier and Foreman are behind in my opinion. What about Duran, Hearns and Leonard?

Steak
04-21-2011, 01:43 AM
Willie Pep, Paddy DeMarco and Sandy Saddler don't come close. Ali, Frazier and Foreman are behind in my opinion. What about Duran, Hearns and Leonard?

Duran Hearns/Hagler and Leonard are an excellent trio.

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 01:54 AM
Charles, Moore and Louis.

If Louis doesnt count...hm. Charles, Moore and Maxim/Harold Johnson.

Moore and Charles are top 10 all time.

Louis and Moore never fought (I should have specified) and I would think Joe would be to far past it to consider if they did. I like Charles, Moore, Maxim, but I don't think their combines resumes including one another stacks up to.....

Ross*
Canzoneri*
McLarnin*
Ambers*
Corbett III*
Armstrong*
B. Leonard*
Pancho Villa*
Bud Taylor*
Jackie Fields*
Fidel LaBarba*
Bummy Davis
Kid Chocolate*
Jackie Kid Berg
Andre Routis
Jackie Burke
Al Manfredo
Frankie Klick
Billy Petrolle*
Battling Battalino
Sammy Fuller
Sammy Mandell*
Louis Kaplan
Baby Arizmendi*
Al Singer
Benny Bass*

Asterisks indicate HOF inductees

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 01:58 AM
Duran Hearns/Hagler and Leonard are an excellent trio.

I think so to. The one thing I think that will hurt them is Leonards small number of fights and the fact that it is still early for many of their opponents to be HOF inductee's. Now if we did this same exercise 20 or 30 years from now it could be a whole different story.

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 02:01 AM
Tunney, Loughran and Greb?

Steak
04-21-2011, 02:15 AM
Louis and Moore never fought (I should have specified) and I would think Joe would be to far past it to consider if they did. I like Charles, Moore, Maxim, but I don't think their combines resumes including one another stacks up to.....

Ross*
Canzoneri*
McLarnin*
Ambers*
Corbett III*
Armstrong*
B. Leonard*
Pancho Villa*
Bud Taylor*
Jackie Fields*
Fidel LaBarba*
Bummy Davis
Kid Chocolate*
Jackie Kid Berg
Andre Routis
Jackie Burke
Al Manfredo
Frankie Klick
Billy Petrolle*
Battling Battalino
Sammy Fuller
Sammy Mandell*
Louis Kaplan
Baby Arizmendi*
Al Singer
Benny Bass*

Asterisks indicate HOF inductees
the thing is that a lot of those HOF guys are under the Old-Timer catagory, which is overall easier to get into.

I consider Charles and Moore better than Canzoneri and Ross personally. Loughran might be a bit better than Maxim, but Maxim has wins over Patterson, Robinson, Bivins, Murphy, Walcott and other top competition, so its not by a big amount.

Steak
04-21-2011, 02:16 AM
Tunney, Loughran and Greb?

ah, thats a damn good one.

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 02:35 AM
the thing is that a lot of those HOF guys are under the Old-Timer catagory, which is overall easier to get into.

I consider Charles and Moore better than Canzoneri and Ross personally. Loughran might be a bit better than Maxim, but Maxim has wins over Patterson, Robinson, Bivins, Murphy, Walcott and other top competition, so its not by a big amount.

Charles I would rate above both, but Moore is right in the same area as Canzoneri, Ross and McLarnin. Very subjective, but that's my opinion.

Steak
04-21-2011, 02:38 AM
Charles I would rate above both, but Moore is right in the same area as Canzoneri, Ross and McLarnin. Very subjective, but that's my opinion.

Moore I would rate above all three, but thats another discussion for another time, ha.

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 02:40 AM
Moore I would rate above all three, but thats another discussion for another time, ha.

Fair enough. Im sure respective arguments could be made from both sides. :fing02:

SCtrojansbaby
04-21-2011, 02:40 AM
Barrera Morales Pacquiao

$BloodyNate$
04-21-2011, 02:40 AM
The funny thing is that probably 75% of this site outside this forum including me are using google right now like "who??????????" hahahaha

If their really that great I'ma have some researchin' ta do. haha Thats crazy because the first people that came to mind are The Fantastic 4 from the 80's or Ali, Frazier, Foreman yet they can't even contend with these guys? God damn I feel like I only know about 12% of the whole entire sports history after this *****. This is depressing haha

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 02:46 AM
The funny thing is that probably 75% of this site outside this forum including me are using google right now like "who??????????" hahahaha

If their really that great I'ma have some researchin' ta do. haha Thats crazy because the first people that came to mind are The Fantastic 4 from the 80's or Ali, Frazier, Foreman yet they can't even contend with these guys? God damn I feel like I only know about 12% of the whole entire sports history after this *****. This is depressing haha

Boxing history is very vast. None of us know it all and can learn something new everyday.

Vadrigar.
04-21-2011, 02:47 AM
Ali, Foreman, Frazier and Leonard, Duran, Hearns

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 02:56 AM
Ali, Foreman, Frazier and Leonard, Duran, Hearns

I sincerely doubt the names on Ali, Foremen and Fraziers resumes could stack up p4p, but I would live if someone broke down Leonard, Duran and Hearns.

PEBBLES!
04-21-2011, 02:58 AM
Ross, Canzoneri & McLarnin also represent the three most prominent ethnic groups that dominated boxing during that era; Jews, Irish & Italians.

This is not definite but from what I've read of their respective records, I'd rank them as follows - based on resume, achievements, skills, talent and a few other intangibles:

1. Jimmy McLarnin
2. Barney Ross
3. Tony Canzoneri

I briefly researched McLarnin's record vs HOF's (http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439227) for those interested.


Pacquiao, Barrera & Morales would be another three.

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 03:05 AM
Ali, Frazier, Foreman best combined opponents.

Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Norton
Young
Lyle
Patterson
Quarry
Chuvalo
Ellis
Bonovena
Williams
Liston
Moore
Jones
Moorer
Stewart
Holyfield
Cooney
Qawo
Roman
Bob Foster
Mathis
Machen

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 03:08 AM
Ross, Canzoneri & McLarnin also represent the three most prominent ethnic groups that dominated boxing during that era; Jews, Irish & Italians.

This is not definite but from what I've read of their respective records, I'd rank them as follows - based on resume, achievements, skills, talent and a few other intangibles:

1. Jimmy McLarnin
2. Barney Ross
3. Tony Canzoneri

I briefly researched McLarnin's record vs HOF's (http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439227) for those interested.


Pacquiao, Barrera & Morales would be another three.

I almost did a thread on ethnic rivalries but decided to go with this instead.

Nice call on Pac, Barrera and Morales!

PEBBLES!
04-21-2011, 03:10 AM
Ali, Frazier, Foreman best combined opponents.

Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Norton
Young
Lyle
Patterson
Quarry
Chuvalo
Ellis
Bonovena
Williams
Liston
Moore
Jones
Moorer
Stewart
Holyfield
Cooney
Qawo
Roman
Bob Foster
Mathis
Machen
That's a pretty solid list of fighters, but Heavyweights are somewhat at a disadvantage by default, in comparison to division jumpers like McLarnin, Ross & Canzoneri whose resumes are littered with elite fighters across multiple divisions. Essentially, lighter fighters have a larger canvas to work with.

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 03:11 AM
Ali, Frazier, Foreman best combined opponents.

Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Norton
Young
Lyle
Patterson
Quarry
Chuvalo
Ellis
Bonovena
Williams
Liston
Moore
Jones
Moorer
Stewart
Holyfield
Cooney
Qawo
Roman
Bob Foster
Mathis
Machen

This is a pretty good list, but the problem I see is Ali is the one who fought all the biggest names in comparison to McLarnin, Ross and Canzoneri each fighting many greats.

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 03:14 AM
That's a pretty solid list of fighters, but Heavyweights are somewhat at a disadvantage by default, in comparison to division jumpers like McLarnin, Ross & Canzoneri whose resumes are littered with elite fighters across multiple divisions. Essentially, lighter fighters have a larger canvas to work with.

Agreed. The heavies are at a very big disadvantage for the reason you pointed out.

PEBBLES!
04-21-2011, 03:33 AM
Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston & Muhammad Ali?

Also, a separate thread on ethnic rivalries sounds like a good idea - there was that one interesting statement made by Henry Cooper in the Facing Ali documentary, it went something along the lines of, "In the 20's and 30's you had the immigrant nations all going to America, that's why you had the Jewish, Irish & Italian fighters dominating - you had to fight to earn a living. Nowadays 9 out of 10 fighters are Mexican or Puerto Rican because they're the biggest influx of immigrants into America.", I'm paraphrasing here but I think you can understand the gist of the quote.

$BloodyNate$
04-21-2011, 03:40 AM
Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston & Muhammad Ali?

Also, a separate thread on ethnic rivalries sounds like a good idea - there was that one interesting statement made by Henry Cooper in the Facing Ali documentary, it went something along the lines of, "In the 20's and 30's you had the immigrant nations all going to America, that's why you had the Jewish, Irish & Italian fighters dominating - you had to fight to earn a living. Nowadays 9 out of 10 fighters are Mexican or Puerto Rican because they're the biggest influx of immigrants into America.", I'm paraphrasing here but I think you can understand the gist of the quote.

Thats actually sounds like an ugly truth. You don't see many great white fighters come out of America anymore. That's always been kinda weird too me. Their mostly all coming out of Europe or other Eastern countries.

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 03:44 AM
Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston & Muhammad Ali?

Also, a separate thread on ethnic rivalries sounds like a good idea - there was that one interesting statement made by Henry Cooper in the Facing Ali documentary, it went something along the lines of, "In the 20's and 30's you had the immigrant nations all going to America, that's why you had the Jewish, Irish & Italian fighters dominating - you had to fight to earn a living. Nowadays 9 out of 10 fighters are Mexican or Puerto Rican because they're the biggest influx of immigrants into America.", I'm paraphrasing here but I think you can understand the gist of the quote.

I was a bit put off by the possibility of the baiting and flaming that might come with such a thread, but feel free to post one if you like. I also think it would make for interesting conversation.

Barn
04-21-2011, 04:17 AM
Langford, Gans, Jack Blackburn.

Barn
04-21-2011, 12:08 PM
Change of plan. Langford, Joe Walcott and Gans.

Do I win?

IronDanHamza
04-21-2011, 12:18 PM
This isn't as good as the ones mentioned.

But; Ezzard Charles, Charley Burley and Lloyd Marhsall have a great great list of achievements between them.

New England
04-21-2011, 12:23 PM
Langford, McVea, Jeannette.


maybe not the best

but i gotta make sure these guys get some love.

NChristo
04-21-2011, 02:54 PM
Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong and Sammy Angott.

JAB5239
04-21-2011, 03:46 PM
Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong and Sammy Angott.

Excellent! How about a list of champions and top opponents they faced?

deansluk
04-22-2011, 11:55 AM
bowe , holyfield , tyson was pretty good in the early 90s , trinidad dlh hopkins ? pacquaio mayweather mosley , barrera morales MARQUEZ , british boxings 90s middleweight group although not elite was pretty good for britain , been , eubank collins/watson