View Full Version : H2H 167 Fitz greater then any 160-175?


Spartacus Sully
04-19-2011, 03:48 AM
ok sooooo ive allready made a similar thread like this a while ago but ive changed it up alittle

167 Fitzsimmons VS super middle or light heavies

personally fitz is one of my favorite boxers ever.....so of course i see him winning just about any match P4P but im wonder the general concensious of how fitz would do against other greats at similar weights.

vrs corbett and the first jeffreis match fitz was 167ish so thats the fitz thats fighting in this match up.

who do you think fitz beats who do you think beats fitz?....but mainly who do you think beats fitz?

walker, tunney, greb, langford, conn, spinks, charles, loughran, maxim, hearns, even robinson though above 160 was definatly not his prime and any one else you can think of that fought at and was good at 160-175.

How do they fair against fitz?

would fitz be able to handel the 174 lb conn that went 13 rounds with louis?

or how about the langford that knocked Fireman Jim Flynn into a diffrent state of mind?

the tunney who took out greb, loughran, levinsky, and carpentier

or the 173-175 lb charles that handeled ray, marshal, moore, and bivins?

and of course fitz would be fighting under the rules of the opponet hes fighting.

Barn
04-19-2011, 10:48 AM
Fitzsimmons was a very tough SOB. No-one at MW would ever KO him that's a fact.

He was quite an aggressive fighter but, was very crafty in the ring despite some physical disadvantages.

As Sonny said I would take. Tunney to beat him. I think he would lose a comfortable decision to Langford. I think Charles would also decison him.

I think Conn would be winning an easy decision then Ruby would eventually catch him with a "Solar Plexus Punch" that would end proceedings.

The more modern fighters mentioned such as Hearns would win decisions over 12 rounds but, in Fitz day he(Bob) would use his uncanny ring skills and wrestling etc to wear them down and eventually get the KO.

Another feat of Fitz is his incredible conditioning I don't have a source for this but, I've heard in training camp he would regularly run marathons?

In 15 Round fight Fitzsimmons has a chance against anybody. When you get into 20's/Unlimited Fitz' chances of winning are HUGE except against a few select fighters such as Hagler etc who I think could fair well in long distance fights with rough tactics and wrestling etc.

IronDanHamza
04-19-2011, 11:46 AM
Put it this way, as stated in the posts in this thead already; Fitzsimmons has a chance against anyone in history at the weights he fought at. Atleast, IMO.

Fitzsimmons is quite possibly the hardest puncher in the history of boxing. Would I lean on some fighters to beat him? Certainly. But does he has a legit chance Vs ANYONE at a weight he fought at? I honestly believe so.

Fitzsimmons is a top 5 MW IMO and I struggle to see how it couldn't be seen that way but many disagree with that statement.

He really is underrated in that sense, IMO.

Barn
04-19-2011, 11:51 AM
Put it this way, as stated in the posts in this thead already; Fitzsimmons has a chance against anyone in history at the weights he fought at. Atleast, IMO.

Fitzsimmons is quite possibly the hardest puncher in the history of boxing. Would I lean on some fighters to beat him? Certainly. But does he has a legit chance Vs ANYONE at a weight he fought at? I honestly believe so.

Fitzsimmons is a top 5 MW IMO and I struggle to see how it couldn't be seen that way but many disagree with that statement.

He really is underrated in that sense, IMO.
He does have an incredible resume.

Fitzsimmons is too Tough, Durable and Hits way too hard to be ruled out against anyone.

Joeyzagz
04-19-2011, 01:29 PM
I would take a prime Fitzsimmons over any version of Gene Tunney. Corbett was the true first scientific boxer, and Fitz easily handled him blasting a hole in his chest.

Fitzsimmons has never lost a decision, and the only way to really beat him is with brute force. A good 220 lb heavyweight could get the job done but I doubt anyone below that threshold would have a shot including Tunney.

Barn
04-19-2011, 01:39 PM
I would take a prime Fitzsimmons over any version of Gene Tunney. Corbett was the true first scientific boxer, and Fitz easily handled him blasting a hole in his chest.

Fitzsimmons has never lost a decision, and the only way to really beat him is with brute force. A good 220 lb heavyweight could get the job done but I doubt anyone below that threshold would have a shot including Tunney.
Against Corbett Fitz was 17Ibs heavier.

NChristo
04-19-2011, 01:54 PM
H2h is all completely opinionated plus Fitz fought under a different set of rules to what modern boxers do /did, can't really say he would beat say Michael Spinks and you can't say Spinks would beat Fitz because it was a much different sport back then.

Joeyzagz
04-19-2011, 02:17 PM
Against Corbett Fitz was 17Ibs heavier.
:killyou:

Fitzsimmons was 167 lbs

Corbett was 184 lbs

Ziggy Stardust
04-19-2011, 02:44 PM
I personally have Fitzsimmons #2 all-time at Middleweight and I think it's an even money fight between him and Langford who I have at #3. The only fighter at Middleweight I'd favor over Fitzsimmons was Ray Robinson circa the LaMotta fights. At Light-Heavy it's a bit more difficult to gauge since the division was new at the time Fitz won that belt (hence hadn't attracted any talent yet) and Fitz was noticably past it then as well. That's balance somewhat by Fitz snagging the Heavyweight title off a legitimate elite fighter.

Poet

Barn
04-19-2011, 02:52 PM
:killyou:

Fitzsimmons was 167 lbs

Corbett was 184 lbs
Sorry my mistake

Spartacus Sully
04-20-2011, 12:35 AM
H2h is all completely opinionated plus Fitz fought under a different set of rules to what modern boxers do /did, can't really say he would beat say Michael Spinks and you can't say Spinks would beat Fitz because it was a much different sport back then.

thats what i want, i want opinions, id like to hear the general concensious on who would beat fitz and why.

what diffrence do you see as far as rules?

bigger gloves, and opponet to corner on KD, anythign else?

i did say that fitz would be fighting under the ruels of his opponets. so create an opinon of how bigger gloves and going to the corner on a KD would effect fitz and share.

Spartacus Sully
04-20-2011, 12:49 AM
excellent topic and well thought out.. Fitzsimmons is one of my favorite turn of the century (1900) fighters and i feel it would be difficult for almost any fighter to beat him, however based on "styles-make-fights" i would take Gene Tunney to defeat him with Tunney being the first scientific fighter, i see Tunney using his incredible mobility & footwork along with his jab & right-cross to win a 15rd decision over the flat-footed Ruby Robert although it is not carved in stone that he could succeed in doing it as Fitz could end the fight at any time with his dynamite fists. but as i said if based on styles i give Tunney and his game-plan of stick-and-move a very good chance of victory. the others you named may just be up against it due to their styles against Fitz style.

Id agree with tunny in similar fassion to corbett just out pointing him and possibly winning a UD. as well tunny took some monster shots from dempsey and still got up fitz might be able to end it any time with his fists but id say fitz would have to put tunney down a few times before its over giving tunney the edge in making it through 15 rds for a UD.

Spartacus Sully
04-20-2011, 01:09 AM
Fitzsimmons was a very tough SOB. No-one at MW would ever KO him that's a fact.

He was quite an aggressive fighter but, was very crafty in the ring despite some physical disadvantages.

As Sonny said I would take. Tunney to beat him. I think he would lose a comfortable decision to Langford. I think Charles would also decison him.

I think Conn would be winning an easy decision then Ruby would eventually catch him with a "Solar Plexus Punch" that would end proceedings.

The more modern fighters mentioned such as Hearns would win decisions over 12 rounds but, in Fitz day he(Bob) would use his uncanny ring skills and wrestling etc to wear them down and eventually get the KO.

Another feat of Fitz is his incredible conditioning I don't have a source for this but, I've heard in training camp he would regularly run marathons?



I agree with the Conn out come, i dont really see Conn making it past round 8-10 some where in there fitz will catch him.

vrs charles i can see a decision he could stand with fitz alittle and wouldnt have to spend the fight dancing around wearing himself out by the later rounds but hed still have to be very careful in the later rounds.

lanford.....here i see an all out brawl with wrestling and lots of hard punches landing cleanly, i really dont see this ending any other way then one of them being knocked out, and with langfords smaller size and better leverage with wrestling he might just knock fitz out but at the same time langford didnt seem to have the fastest foot work leaving fitz the oppertunity to pick off some good counters while langfords comeing in. but thats just how i see it really im torn between the 2 either fitz using his reach and a wait and see style to pick off counters till he has the perfect shot or langford just rolling him over with his supior wrestling and good punching power.

P4P id put langford above fitz but head to head i think fitz could take him with his reach and power.

why do you think the modern boxers would win over fitz? diffrent rules? better style? better combo punching? all of the above?

and he wasnt running marathons from what i understand the first day of training camp for jeffries he wen out and ran 15 miles......then he said **** that and started doing 8 miles out and walking 8 miles back or 15 miles alternating run one mile walk one mile run one mile walk one or some times 7-8 miles alternating between sprinting the distance between tele poles and and walking the distance between poles....and then hed rest and bike an extra 30 miles or something.


overall great posts from every one thanks for sharing.

Barn
04-20-2011, 03:20 AM
I agree with the Conn out come, i dont really see Conn making it past round 8-10 some where in there fitz will catch him.

vrs charles i can see a decision he could stand with fitz alittle and wouldnt have to spend the fight dancing around wearing himself out by the later rounds but hed still have to be very careful in the later rounds.

lanford.....here i see an all out brawl with wrestling and lots of hard punches landing cleanly, i really dont see this ending any other way then one of them being knocked out, and with langfords smaller size and better leverage with wrestling he might just knock fitz out but at the same time langford didnt seem to have the fastest foot work leaving fitz the oppertunity to pick off some good counters while langfords comeing in. but thats just how i see it really im torn between the 2 either fitz using his reach and a wait and see style to pick off counters till he has the perfect shot or langford just rolling him over with his supior wrestling and good punching power.

P4P id put langford above fitz but head to head i think fitz could take him with his reach and power.

why do you think the modern boxers would win over fitz? diffrent rules? better style? better combo punching? all of the above?

and he wasnt running marathons from what i understand the first day of training camp for jeffries he wen out and ran 15 miles......then he said **** that and started doing 8 miles out and walking 8 miles back or 15 miles alternating run one mile walk one mile run one mile walk one or some times 7-8 miles alternating between sprinting the distance between tele poles and and walking the distance between poles....and then hed rest and bike an extra 30 miles or something.


overall great posts from every one thanks for sharing.
In a Modern bout, especially 12 rounds with little wrestling etc It isn't exactly Fitz' turf, he could still get a KO win but, his chances are decreased significantly.


In his time he could use his wrestling to wear his opponents down making KO's in his favour much more likely in my opinion.