View Full Version : Is the Holyfield/Lewis draw atleast top 5 in the worst decisions all-time?


studentofthegam
04-15-2011, 02:53 AM
I watched it today and it seems to get worse and worse the more I see it. I found it hard to give Evander 2 rounds and that from a die hard Holyfield fan. Thats the fight that showed me Holy was on the down swing from then on. He couldnt pull the trigger and ate jabs all night. I mark that number 1 that Ive seen. What do you think? Id like to be reminded of some worse decisions because right now I cant thinkof one that compares considering what was at stake.

Barn
04-15-2011, 06:24 AM
Chavez - Whitaker.

The_Demon
04-15-2011, 07:52 AM
It was a terrible decision

IronDanHamza
04-15-2011, 09:21 AM
The first fight was a bad descison. I had Lewis comfortably winning.

However, the 2nd fight i felt Holyfield won.

Scott9945
04-15-2011, 09:50 AM
What in your opinion did Lennox do in that 2nd fight to win?... it was the night he was supposed to shine like a star yet sadly it was the night he got exposed.. with Holyfield rocking & staggering him in the 7th round and winning the fight handily, the result was booed by the crowd.. after their first fight one judge (Eugenia Williams) was investigated, yet after the rematch ALL three judges should have been investigated.


So you scored the fight 7-5, and yet think that there should have been an investigation? :lol1:

Agenda much?

Wild Blue Yonda
04-15-2011, 11:00 AM
The worst Ive ever seen --- ever --- was Whitaker-Ramirez I.

Barn
04-15-2011, 11:25 AM
The worst Ive ever seen --- ever --- was Whitaker-Ramirez I.
Whitakers never been fourtunate with decisions.

I'm about to score the Oscar De La Hoya fight, how did you have it?

IronDanHamza
04-15-2011, 12:01 PM
Whitakers never been fourtunate with decisions.

I'm about to score the Oscar De La Hoya fight, how did you have it?

WBY had Oscar winning I believe.

I had Whitaker by a couple rounds.

Let me know your scorecard after you've scored it.

House of Stone
04-15-2011, 12:23 PM
worst I can remember was roy jones jnr missing out in the olympic gold that was just awful. But yeah Lewis clearly won that first fight.

SCtrojansbaby
04-15-2011, 12:48 PM
Winky Wright vs Vargas

joseph5620
04-15-2011, 01:56 PM
I watched it today and it seems to get worse and worse the more I see it. I found it hard to give Evander 2 rounds and that from a die hard Holyfield fan. Thats the fight that showed me Holy was on the down swing from then on. He couldnt pull the trigger and ate jabs all night. I mark that number 1 that Ive seen. What do you think? Id like to be reminded of some worse decisions because right now I cant thinkof one that compares considering what was at stake.

From what Ive actually seen, yes.

joseph5620
04-15-2011, 01:59 PM
Chavez - Whitaker.

That was the second worse Ive seen. The worse was Jose Luis Ramirez -Whitaker-1 because Whitaker actually lost the decision. I'm sure there are others just as bad. But from what Ive seen that was the worst.

joseph5620
04-15-2011, 02:06 PM
Lewis had opportunities in that fight and failed to take them i had it 7-5 Lewis... Their rematch was just as diabolical in scoring as Holyfield regrouped and was the clear winner 7-5.. Reid vs Ottke was the worst decision i can recall.

The fight was supposed to be judged on whether a round is won or lost. Not whether you think fighter A. should have KO'd fighter B. Your agenda is as bad as those corrupt judges.Your 7-5 score in the first fight speaks for itself.

studentofthegam
04-15-2011, 02:06 PM
What in your opinion did Lennox do in that 2nd fight to win?... it was the night he was supposed to shine like a star yet sadly it was the night he got exposed.. with Holyfield rocking & staggering him in the 7th round and winning the fight handily, the result was booed by the crowd.. after their first fight one judge (Eugenia Williams) was investigated, yet after the rematch ALL three judges should have been investigated.Its possible that Holy won the second fight but it was nowhere near the wide margin it should have been for Lewis in that first fight. Mind you now, I am a Holyfield fan and not a Lenox fan at all. I could watch that first fight 1000 times and never get a draw. I'll watch that second fight again to get it fresh and get back to you with numbers.

Steak
04-15-2011, 02:08 PM
Augustus-Burton and Reid-Ottke were much worse robberies to me, because
1. They flat out lost the decision instead of got a draw and
2. They were robbed not only on the scorecards, but even in the ring. Augustus dropped Burton and it was called a low blow, and Reid was getting warned for punching.


on a side note, it seems a lot of people had Holyfield winning the second fight. I might go ahead and make a poll for that.

joseph5620
04-15-2011, 02:25 PM
worst I can remember was roy jones jnr missing out in the olympic gold that was just awful. But yeah Lewis clearly won that first fight.

Yeah that was so bad that it goes beyond worst decisions.

studentofthegam
04-15-2011, 03:08 PM
Roy's was one of the worst travesties in Olympic history. I cant help but be reminded of Floyd's loss to Todorov. The ref raised his hand and then looked dismayed as they awarded the win to Todorov.

joseph5620
04-15-2011, 03:58 PM
Roy's was one of the worst travesties in Olympic history. I cant help but be reminded of Floyd's loss to Todorov. The ref raised his hand and then looked dismayed as they awarded the win to Todorov.

That's one reason why I have very little interest in Olympic boxing.

JK1700
04-15-2011, 06:30 PM
All of you guys need to see Gabriel Campillo vs Beibut Shumenov II from January 2010. That is the worst robbery I have ever seen and probably one of the Top 5, maybe even Top 3 worst robberies of all time (I haven't had the time to see some of the fights mentioned in this thread but will make it a priority to catch them). I had Campillo winning 10 out of 12 rounds, a couple of them could have been 10-8 rounds because he was so dominant and I thought I was being generous with the rounds I gave to Shumenov. The guy got completely and utterly schooled, there's no way in hell that he deserved the decision. But Campillo lost his title via SD (117-111, 111-117 and 113-115).

Absolute travesty. The fight was not even remotely close. Campillo's promoter and Lou DiBella both stated that an investigation should be filed but amazingly the two judges who gave it to Shumenov (Patricia Jarman and Jerry Roth) are still judging fights today. Both should have been banned from every judging a fight again. I highly reccommend seeing this fight if you haven't done so already.

Wild Blue Yonda
04-15-2011, 08:23 PM
WBY had Oscar winning I believe.

I had Whitaker by a couple rounds.

Let me know your scorecard after you've scored it.

That's correct. I thought De La Hoya edged him out in a fight I don't have a problem seeing Whitaker as the winner. The scorecards reflected what everyone knew at the time --- De La Hoya was wanted, Whitaker was not. In a way it was a shame for the winner, because it fuelled cries of a robbery to a much greater extent than was deserved. Had De La Hoya narrowly won on the cards (as well he should have, the actual scoring was predictably atrocious), I suspect far fewer people would be up in arms over Whitaker losing what was, in actual fact, a very close fight.

It showed that a young Whitaker was a cut above your De La Hoya's, Trinidad's, Mosley's, & the rest of the coming generation.

Scott9945
04-15-2011, 11:06 PM
The worst Ive ever seen --- ever --- was Whitaker-Ramirez I.

I was never so shocked to hear a decision as I was after that fight. Still the very worst I've ever seen. .

crold1
04-15-2011, 11:22 PM
Axel Schultz losing to George Foreman in the 1990s was one that always stood out to me. Every time someone gets just raked by terribly scoring and/or officiating in Germany, I think about that one.

studentofthegam
04-16-2011, 12:10 AM
That's correct. I thought De La Hoya edged him out in a fight I don't have a problem seeing Whitaker as the winner. The scorecards reflected what everyone knew at the time --- De La Hoya was wanted, Whitaker was not. In a way it was a shame for the winner, because it fuelled cries of a robbery to a much greater extent than was deserved. Had De La Hoya narrowly won on the cards (as well he should have, the actual scoring was predictably atrocious), I suspect far fewer people would be up in arms over Whitaker losing what was, in actual fact, a very close fight.

It showed that a young Whitaker was a cut above your De La Hoya's, Trinidad's, Mosley's, & the rest of the coming generation.I thought Sweet Pea won but it was close. The wide margin on the cards did inflate the robbery balloon. Its the Golden Boy who had too many golden scorecards. It was Karma when Trinidad got the nod.

Mugwump
04-17-2011, 06:47 PM
The worst decision I've seen was after the Reid vs Ottke shambles. It was as close as you can get to knowing a fight is crooked without seeing money changing hands.

Next was the first fight between Azumah Nelson and Jeff Fenech. Fenech clearly won the bout by a mile and yet it was called a draw. I'll never forget that fight because of the way Don King strutted around the ring with his trademark leer as the result was announced. You could almost see him calculating the money he would make out of the re-match.

Fenech was never the same after that fight.

Lewis vs Holyfield was a bad decision (made even worse by the fact that the judge who had Holyfield winning by a canter was British!) - but it wasn't as bad as the two above.

Wild Blue Yonda
04-18-2011, 02:33 AM
I thought Sweet Pea won but it was close. The wide margin on the cards did inflate the robbery balloon. Its the Golden Boy who had too many golden scorecards. It was Karma when Trinidad got the nod.

See, I know that's a popular view, but I'm not so sure I agree. Obviously, De La Hoya benefitted from favouritism through a few fights, as the cards for his battles with Whitaker, Quartey & the like suggest. It isn't unfair to say De La Hoya won those fights (I had him edging Whitaker & drawing with Quartey), but no way did he win so wide.

Still, I would contend De La Hoya only got one true gift in all his career --- Sturm. I feel he was actually truly robbed twice --- Trinidad, & the rematch with Mosley. As I see it, he was given one gift & robbed twice, making him much less fortuitous than he appears.

JAB5239
04-18-2011, 04:01 AM
What in your opinion did Lennox do in that 2nd fight to win?... it was the night he was supposed to shine like a star yet sadly it was the night he got exposed.. with Holyfield rocking & staggering him in the 7th round and winning the fight handily, the result was booed by the crowd.. after their first fight one judge (Eugenia Williams) was investigated, yet after the rematch ALL three judges should have been investigated.

Please, for the love of God, tell me you aren't trying to argue the second fight was a bigger robbery than the first.

Scott9945
04-18-2011, 09:28 AM
never claimed it was, yet at least we both agree that Holyfield won the second fight

But yoiu did say that you scored both fights 7-5, which is absurd for the first fight.

BattlingNelson
04-18-2011, 09:38 AM
Lewis had opportunities in that fight and failed to take them i had it 7-5 Lewis... Their rematch was just as diabolical in scoring as Holyfield regrouped and was the clear winner 7-5.. Reid vs Ottke was the worst decision i can recall.
:thinking:

Personally I'd never call 7-5 a clear win.



I think some of the worst decisions in pro boxing I can think of is already mentioned in this thread ie. Whitaker-Ramirez, Foreman-Schultz. Worthy of mention is also Spinks-Holmes II and Ali-Norton III.

Scott9945
04-18-2011, 11:29 AM
Fight (I) 7-5 Lewis
Fight (2) 7-5 Holyfield

Nothing absurd about those scores, lets see your scores for those 2 fights.

Fight 1 - 10-2 Lewis (9-3 if I'm being generous)

Fight 2 - 7-5 Lewis

BattlingNelson
04-18-2011, 01:39 PM
Fight 1 - 10-2 Lewis (9-3 if I'm being generous)

Fight 2 - 7-5 Lewis
Looks like the post you quoted was deleted. Hmmm..

studentofthegam
04-18-2011, 02:59 PM
so you scored their first fight 118-110?That sounds about right to me. It was a terrible showing for Evander.

Wild Blue Yonda
04-18-2011, 09:14 PM
I might dare say that Casamayor-Cruz fight has been the single worst decision since Lewis-Holyfield I.

JK1700
04-20-2011, 09:35 AM
I might dare say that Casamayor-Cruz fight has been the single worst decision since Lewis-Holyfield I.

It's between that one and Campillo-Shumenov II.

Campillo won at least 10 rounds in his 2nd fight with Shumenov.

SCtrojansbaby
04-21-2011, 01:26 AM
Toney vs Rahman 1, Toney vs Griffin 1 and to a lesser extent Toney vs Peter.

Walt Liquor
04-21-2011, 06:51 PM
Anyone wih Stum-DeLa yet?

Segio V Cintron was clearly the worst decision ever to me as it also had the missed KO.

forbes-demetrious hopkins


I'd say holy-lewis is top 5, that was a straight up stickup, but he got the draw as already quoted

GJC
04-22-2011, 10:29 AM
Please, for the love of God, tell me you aren't trying to argue the second fight was a bigger robbery than the first.
Remarkably 7-5 and 5-7 make the two fights dead level too :)

In answer to the question Briggs Foreman is a little mentioned gem of a shocking verdict.

joe strong
04-22-2011, 10:41 AM
yes it was....bryd\oquendo was pretty bad too

deansluk
04-22-2011, 10:47 AM
i thought lewis won the 1st 9-3 and the second i scored 7-5 as a lewis fan, coulda been a draw , a robbery ill always remember was james toney vs Dave Tiberi , toney got beat as clearly that night as he did in any of his losses bar the rjj fight , reid vs ottke was bad , sturm dlh was pretty bad , also im a brit , but i thought dirrell beat froch by a few rounds and didnt get the nod in nottingham , quartey vs forrest fight a few years back was iffy ,i thought collazo beat hatton , yeh i guess boxings corrupt lol