View Full Version : the most under rated Light Heavyweight of all time ?


madmadworld
04-13-2011, 09:03 AM
is Michael Moorer the most under rated light heavyweight of all time ?

he could have ko'd anyone ever at 175. in my life time only 2 fighters could beat him (prime)Roy Jones Jr jabbing moving for 12/15 rounds or Bob Foster the only LHW that could ko him.Michael Spinks would have got ko'd late imho. many fighters in his day ate their way out of 175 to get away and others just would not fight him listed below*
he had to go to HW to get fights and make $$
and i find that Boxrec gives him NO love over there, not in the top 100 all time ratings for the United States this is a joke WHO votes on this ?
he at least should be above Virgil Hill he would not fight him.

13 Michael Spinks
18 Virgil Hill*
27 Matthew Saad Muhammad
60 Charles Williams*
65 Bobby Czyz*
90 JB Williamson WTF
Jeff Harding
Thomas Hearns
Sugar Ray Leonard
Donny Lalonde
Dennis Andries*

Michael Moorer
22-0 22 ko's

good story on him
http://www.*********.com/article_detail.php?AT=328

IronDanHamza
04-13-2011, 09:58 AM
He's not really underrated at LHW, IMO.

I mean, he really didn't do anything at LHW. During his title reign I don't think he ever beat a Top 5 fighter at the time of his reign. And considering his reign was a reasonably short one, to be considered a Top LHW, you need those big wins, and for whaever the reason may be, he just doesn't have, any...

I guess there is the 'well we saw what he can do at HW and had he had the chance to display that he could have done this and that' but that's the key word, could. We can't judge from what he could have done.

The fact is Moorer's LHW resume is really weak.

An underrated LHW is Maxie Rosenbloom. He's not a Top 5 LHW but a surefire Top 10 IMO. Pretty much unknown or atleast not talked about, a shame.

madmadworld
04-13-2011, 10:57 AM
no boxing historian here but never seen a guy that fast and powerful at LHW. and he wanted to fight the top guys you can't put a gun to peoples heads. well you can But.........

that just don't seem fair
who the heck is this guy really 90 JB Williamson i gotta a blank
Virgil Hill .......................fart
i just might have to become a boxing historian this is bs

NChristo
04-13-2011, 11:25 AM
Boxrec rankings are garbage thought this was pretty much universally recognized by now.

madmadworld
04-13-2011, 11:47 AM
Boxrec rankings are garbage thought this was pretty much universally recognized by now.

thanks
don't know everything but sifting thru some of these ratings are funny.
facts are good there, but opinions are ?????
you must have to be on oxygen or a nursing home to vote

NChristo
04-13-2011, 11:52 AM
thanks
don't know everything but sifting thru some of these ratings are funny.
facts are good there, but opinions are ?????
you must have to be on oxygen or a nursing home to vote

Yeah lol, not sure how they do their points system but something went wrong somewhere. A lot of their ratings are just odd.

Wild Blue Yonda
04-13-2011, 11:59 AM
Take your pick between Jimmy Bivins, Michael Spinks and Maxie Rosenbloom. It isnt Moorer, though I am a believer in him at this weight, as I know many arent.

madmadworld
04-13-2011, 12:09 PM
Take your pick between Jimmy Bivins, Michael Spinks and Maxie Rosenbloom. It isnt Moorer, though I am a believer in him at this weight, as I know many arent.
Jimmy Bivins, Michael Spinks and Maxie Rosenbloom
are you saying these guys are the best or most under rated ?

goblin213
04-13-2011, 12:44 PM
Harold Johnson is the most underrated LHW imo, I thought he was robbed in the Pastrano fight btw. Moorer didn't really do much in the LHW.
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Scott9945
04-13-2011, 01:26 PM
Harold Johnson is the most underrated LHW imo, I thought he was robbed in the Pastrano fight btw. Moorer didn't really do much in the LHW.
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Good choice for most underrated. He was a ring technician with some impressive names on his win resume.

Steak
04-13-2011, 02:52 PM
how is Moorer underrated at LHW? He didnt beat anyone at note at that weight. he literally didnt fight a single top ten guy.

If youre talking about head to head matchups, thats a different story. but in terms of greatness at LHW, he shouldnt be rated highly at all.


Mike Spinks is usually the one most underrated at LHW(by casual fans), since he is only remembered for the Tyson loss despite him beating a lot of top quality LHWs in a stacked LHW division.

IronDanHamza
04-13-2011, 02:57 PM
how is Moorer underrated at LHW? He didnt beat anyone at note at that weight. he literally didnt fight a single top ten guy.

If youre talking about head to head matchups, thats a different story. but in terms of greatness at LHW, he shouldnt be rated highly at all.


Mike Spinks is usually the one most underrated at LHW(by casual fans), since he is only remembered for the Tyson loss despite him beating a lot of top quality LHWs in a stacked LHW division.

I agree with Micheal Spinks in terms of his greatness at LHW.

But atleast most casual fans actually know who Spinks is.

Ziggy Stardust
04-13-2011, 02:59 PM
You can't really underrate someone at a weight class where they never really fought anyone. The eyeball test only takes you so far and the quality of the opponent has to be considered. Guys with power are going to look spectacular against tomato cans. You can't really tell how good they are until they fight some quality opponents.....something Moorer never did at that weight.

Poet

Steak
04-13-2011, 03:02 PM
I agree with Micheal Spinks in terms of his greatness at LHW.

But atleast most casual fans actually know who Spinks is.
yeah, when it gets down to it almost all LHWs from the 50s or before are completely overlooked.

but thats the thing: I consider guys underrated when people know who they are, but dont rate them highly. Guys that no one knows about at all arent rated whatsoever, so I consider them more 'overlooked' than 'underrated'...because among people that do know them, they generally do get a lot of credit.

but Im not about to get into a discussion about terminology, lol.

Pastrano
04-13-2011, 04:53 PM
Eddie Mustafa Muhammad might be it. He isn't getting mentioned that much today, but he stopped Marvin Johnson, decisioned Saad Muhammad and gave Spinks a tough fight, but he was not in shape then and Spinks didn't want to rematch him. He coulda been even more successful. Also lost a very close decision to Galindez.

Scott9945
04-13-2011, 05:02 PM
Eddie Mustafa Muhammad might be it. He isn't getting mentioned that much today, but he stopped Marvin Johnson, decisioned Saad Muhammad and gave Spinks a tough fight, but he was not in shape then and Spinks didn't want to rematch him. He coulda been even more successful. Also lost a very close decision to Galindez.

EMM had a wicked left hook to the body. His big mistake was moving up to heavyweight (unsuccessfully) and then defending against Spinks way too soon afterwards. He had to drop 26 lbs in just two months.

EMSLDB
04-13-2011, 05:18 PM
michael moorer should have fought either hill or prince charles williams

Scott9945
04-13-2011, 05:29 PM
michael moorer should have fought either hill or prince charles williams

Moorer was a natural heavyweight who was being shrunk down to that weight class. He was never meant to be a lightheavyweight for very long. Moorer put on almost 40 bs for his first title fight.

Pastrano
04-13-2011, 06:23 PM
michael moorer should have fought either hill or prince charles williams

Williams' level of competition wasn't that good, but before he turned a brawler, his style was pretty to watch, very fluid.

RFPROBOX
04-13-2011, 06:43 PM
is Michael Moorer the most under rated light heavyweight of all time ?

he could have ko'd anyone ever at 175. in my life time only 2 fighters could beat him (prime)Roy Jones Jr jabbing moving for 12/15 rounds or Bob Foster the only LHW that could ko him.Michael Spinks would have got ko'd late imho. many fighters in his day ate their way out of 175 to get away and others just would not fight him listed below*
he had to go to HW to get fights and make $$
and i find that Boxrec gives him NO love over there, not in the top 100 all time ratings for the United States this is a joke WHO votes on this ?
he at least should be above Virgil Hill he would not fight him.

13 Michael Spinks
18 Virgil Hill*
27 Matthew Saad Muhammad
60 Charles Williams*
65 Bobby Czyz*
90 JB Williamson WTF
Jeff Harding
Thomas Hearns
Sugar Ray Leonard
Donny Lalonde
Dennis Andries*

Michael Moorer
22-0 22 ko's

good story on him
http://www.*********.com/article_detail.php?AT=328

Mike Rossman. a good boxer. He gave victor galindez the business and beat him to a bloody pulp. He could bang too. he doesnt get nearly the credit he deserves.

RFPROBOX
04-13-2011, 06:45 PM
EMM had a wicked left hook to the body. His big mistake was moving up to heavyweight (unsuccessfully) and then defending against Spinks way too soon afterwards. He had to srop 26 lbs in just two months.

he was also very lazy and not very smart. he let 3rd rate fightrers like James scott beat him.

TBear
04-13-2011, 11:05 PM
The thing is with Moorer is there was three other champions at the time. It is not determined if he was even the best at his weight at the time. He did not fight especially good light heavys when he was wbo champ either.

Boxing Bob
04-14-2011, 05:50 PM
He is given some credit, but for his skills and dominance, I think Bob Foster is verrrrry underrated as a light heavy

madmadworld
04-15-2011, 01:12 AM
kinda new here was testing.


boxing rec top ten
some of these guys never won or fought for the title(boxing rec shows)
1 Archie Moore
2 Ezzard Charles
3 Jimmy Bivins
4 Maxie Rosenbloom
5 Billy Conn not even a LHW
6 Gene Tunney
7 Tommy Loughran
8 Joey Maxim most fights over 175
9 Roy Jones Jr
10 John Henry Lewis

my top ten LHW of all time.
no order why ?
if you have top tens any of them could beat the others on any night imho.

Roy Jones Jr
Michael Moorer
Jimmy Bivins
Archie Moore
Gene Tunney
Maxie Rosenbloom
Harold Johnson
Michael Spinks
Bob Foster
Ezzard Charles ?

Ziggy Stardust
04-15-2011, 01:29 AM
5 Billy Conn not even a LHW

WTF????? The man was the Light-Heavyweight champion from 1939 to 1940 and fought primarily over 160 from 1937 on and only had 10 fights at Heavyweight. WTF?????

Poet

Wild Blue Yonda
04-15-2011, 01:51 AM
It will be news to historians and fans alike that Billy Conn was not a LHW.

madmadworld
04-15-2011, 03:50 AM
WTF????? The man was the Light-Heavyweight champion from 1939 to 1940 and fought primarily over 160 from 1937 on and only had 10 fights at Heavyweight. WTF?????

Poet
77 fights 11 at LWH 58 lower 8 higher
not making this up
plus he was white and before desegregation and could have fought Jimmy Bivins........others why not ? and no quality wins

that's 2 whole years same as Michael Moorer 22 at LWH all ko'd. and he called out Virgil Hill & Charles Williams no takers for 2 years.
he and they know what would have happened to them.

madmadworld
04-15-2011, 03:52 AM
It will be news to historians and fans alike that Billy Conn was not a LHW.

nothing stupider than a talking head right a head of internet posters LOL

Wild Blue Yonda
04-15-2011, 05:00 AM
'Stupider,' is now a word.

IronDanHamza
04-15-2011, 10:44 AM
'Stupider,' is now a word.

:lol1: , Nothing better than calling someone out for saying 'stupider' when they are aiming to call you stupid.

Ziggy Stardust
04-15-2011, 01:49 PM
77 fights 11 at LWH 58 lower 8 higher
not making this up
plus he was white and before desegregation and could have fought Jimmy Bivins........others why not ? and no quality wins

that's 2 whole years same as Michael Moorer 22 at LWH all ko'd. and he called out Virgil Hill & Charles Williams no takers for 2 years.
he and they know what would have happened to them.

You forgot to mention Conn didn't fight as a Middleweight past his third year as a pro. And what does segregation have to do with whether he was a Light-Heavy or not?

Oh, and Conn was the legitimate champion at Light-Heavy, Moorer was not: Moorer held the joke WBO belt, nothing more. Conn also beat Gus Lesnevich x 2, Melio Bettina x 2, Fred Apostoli x2, Teddy Yarosz, and Gus Dorazio: 5 guys who trump everyone on Moorer's Light-Heavy resume.

And BTW, learn to count: Conn had 35 fights over 160 8 of which were at Heavyweight.....that makes 27 fights at Light-Heavy not 11.

Poet

RubenSonny
04-15-2011, 01:51 PM
You forgot to mention Conn didn't fight as a Middleweight past his third year as a pro. And what does segregation have to do with whether he was a Light-Heavy or not?

Oh, and Conn was the legitimate champion at Light-Heavy, Moorer was not: Moorer held the joke WBO belt, nothing more. Conn also Gus Lesnevich x 2, Melio Bettina x 2, Fred Apostoli x2, Teddy Yarosz, and Gus Dorazio: 5 guys who trump everyone on Moorer's Light-Heavy resume.

And BTW, learn to count: Conn had 35 fights over 160 8 of which were at Heavyweight.....that makes 27 fights at Light-Heavy not 11.

Poet

Just one of those wins ****s on moorers 'reign' at lhw.

Ziggy Stardust
04-15-2011, 01:59 PM
Just one of those wins ****s on moorers 'reign' at lhw.

The sad thing is Madworld is probably utterly clueless as to who those guys were :nonono:

Poet

TheGreatA
04-15-2011, 02:01 PM
Moorer falls in with most overrated. The most underrated is arguably John Henry Lewis.

Ziggy Stardust
04-15-2011, 02:02 PM
Moorer falls in with most overrated. The most underrated is arguably John Henry Lewis.

Great call!

TheGreatA
04-15-2011, 02:05 PM
Moorer was getting worked by Leslie Stewart until finding a one punch KO on his fragile opponent. He was way too conservative and relied mainly on power to pull off wins against lesser opposition.

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madmadworld
04-15-2011, 04:57 PM
And what does segregation have to do with whether he was a Light-Heavy or not?
Poet
please tell me about all the white LHW since desegregation ?
you can not even believe the news paper clippings before then on somethings.


Oh, and Conn was the legitimate champion at Light-Heavy, Moorer was not: Moorer held the joke WBO belt, nothing more.
Poet
Conn was from Pittsburgh Bivins from Cleveland ????
you just don't like Michael Moorer and that's ok

madmadworld
04-15-2011, 05:04 PM
:lol1: , Nothing better than calling someone out for saying 'stupider' when they are aiming to call you stupid.
Irony
was poking fun at self also as i am a internet poster lol
are we having fun yet ?

madmadworld
04-15-2011, 05:50 PM
Moorer was getting worked by Leslie Stewart until finding a one punch KO on his fragile opponent. He was way too conservative and relied mainly on power to pull off wins against lesser opposition.
Leslie Stewart fragile opponent ?
should have been a baker not a boxer if that's true.

relied mainly on power to pull off wins against lesser opposition.
my point everybody at that time were "lesser opposition" Virgil Hill & Charles Williams included.
today we pick on fighters who avoid other boxers when they are called out call them a lesser fighter for it. Virgil Hill top 20 is what got me started.

bottom line he ko'd everybody at LHW

Ziggy Stardust
04-15-2011, 07:45 PM
please tell me about all the white LHW since desegregation?

Can you rewrite this sentence so it actually makes grammatical sense? Then please explain what it has to do with the price of eggs :bringit9:


you can not even believe the news paper clippings before then on somethings.

And this relevant how exactly? :dunno9:


Conn was from Pittsburgh Bivins from Cleveland ????

And......and.....Joe Louis was from Detroit but it has no relevance as to whether Conn was a Light-Heavy or not. Muhammed Ali was from Louisville :geek9:


you just don't like Michael Moorer and that's ok

Ah! The nuthugger's lament! Point out the flimsyness of resume of one of their favs and watch the fan-boi scream "HATER!!!!!" :hahahaha9:

Poet

TheGreatA
04-15-2011, 09:50 PM
Leslie Stewart fragile opponent ?
should have been a baker not a boxer if that's true.

relied mainly on power to pull off wins against lesser opposition.
my point everybody at that time were "lesser opposition" Virgil Hill & Charles Williams included.
today we pick on fighters who avoid other boxers when they are called out call them a lesser fighter for it. Virgil Hill top 20 is what got me started.

bottom line he ko'd everybody at LHW

Stewart never had the best chin.

Hill, despite not being the most impressive fighter, had longevity at light heavyweight which Moorer did not. Moorer was a heavyweight draining himself to fight at 175, and knew better than to continue fighting at that weight. His stamina suffered as a result, that's why he held back so much.

Who is to say that Hill avoided Moorer? The fight just wasn't there to be made and Moorer wasn't relevant at 175 except for a year or two. I'm sure Hill didn't fancy taking on a puncher like Moorer but had the bout been lucrative enough with the fans calling for it, I'm sure it would have happened. Hill was hardly a ducker, he took on anybody. A Roy Jones was surely a more threatening prospect than a largely untested Moorer who didn't exactly impress against Leslie Stewart (whom Hill dominated) but for his punching ability.

Scott9945
04-15-2011, 11:33 PM
bottom line he ko'd everybody at LHW

While Moorer did KO all of his opponents, he didn't KO anyone who mattered. The lightheavies he beat couldn't compete with Chad Dawson or Tavoris Cloud, who are talented fighters but not likely to be ATG's.

And God's honest truth, I always liked Michael Moorer and can't remember ever rooting against him.

Clegg
04-15-2011, 11:48 PM
I don't know if he's the most underrated, but if we're talking about guys who didn't stay at LHW long but still did good work there then throw in Floyd Patterson.

The lure of the heavyweight crown likely would've seen him step up anyway, but had he fought under the same weigh-in rules as Moorer he may well have had a title-winning run at 175. As it is, Maxim and Durelle were better than anyone Moorer faced at the weight.

TheGreatA
04-16-2011, 05:59 AM
I don't know if he's the most underrated, but if we're talking about guys who didn't stay at LHW long but still did good work there then throw in Floyd Patterson.

The lure of the heavyweight crown likely would've seen him step up anyway, but had he fought under the same weigh-in rules as Moorer he may well have had a title-winning run at 175. As it is, Maxim and Durelle were better than anyone Moorer faced at the weight.

True. Patterson would have likely reigned for a very long time had he stayed at 175. The way he dispatched an old but still capable Archie Moore best displays what kind of ability he had. It was only against hard-hitting heavyweights that he ran into problems. Harold Johnson and later Bob Foster would have been his only real competition from the 50's to the 60's, and I imagine Patterson could have taken out either of them, though not without some problems.

madmadworld
04-16-2011, 09:37 AM
Who is to say that Hill avoided Moorer?
don't think that is in question.
and not getting these fights frustrated him and lost motivation at LHW.
Steward keep him busy 11title fights in 2 short years.


I'm sure Hill didn't fancy taking on a puncher like Moorer but had the bout been lucrative enough with the fans calling for it, I'm sure it would have happened.

you got it here
the risk reward did not work for him and smart move on his part. he had that home town gig in Bismarck, North Dakota, he could fill it and get a network to do his fights.did not need Moorer for the $.
played it well waited and got Thomas Hearns for more $. if he fought Moorer and got ko'd once or twice.... his after history big difference.

as a fan only these fights below are ones i wish i paid PPV for.that i can think of off the top of my head. we get most match up's we want maybe years too late but they happen.

Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis
Larry Holmes vs George Foreman could have been interesting
Virgil Hill vs Michael Moorer
Charles Williams vs Michael Moorer



Who is to say that Hill avoided Moorer?
Hill was hardly a ducker, he took on anybody.

will ask Emanuel Steward when i see him.

hope your fighters win unless their fighting my fav's.

GJC
04-22-2011, 11:34 AM
One who seems to get a tad overlooked at LHW is Greb. He rightly gets his kudos at MW and p4p but at LHW he often gets rated below fighters he beat at their peak. Resume wise it is difficult not to see him top 5 let alone top 10?