View Full Version : boxers dont use weights a myth?


Pooch
09-18-2005, 08:35 AM
iv read on here some people who do weights and was wondering if this day and age do the pros do weights?

if so which ones and what sort of routines do they have?

kbpoetree
09-18-2005, 09:42 AM
I know Roy Jones jr lifts weights, i myself lift weights although i am not a pro. Lot of old school trainers think weights are bad, but times have changed, the proper weight lifting workouts can only benefit, but b carefull as it could hurt u if not doing the correct exercises.

Hunna
09-18-2005, 09:45 AM
.......................... we all know the answer 2 this one

Pooch
09-18-2005, 10:41 AM
and that is?..........

Tony Blitz
09-18-2005, 10:50 AM
.......................... we all know the answer 2 this one
LEEEROOOOOOOOOY JENKIIIIIINS!

EXIGE
09-18-2005, 11:04 AM
and that is?..........
The dude in your avatar lifts weights.

Pooch
09-19-2005, 01:22 PM
so what sort of weight routines would pros do and how often?

KidBlackie
09-19-2005, 01:57 PM
[[[so what sort of weight routines would pros do and how often?]]]
=========================

There is no set routine. Weights have been used since the earliest days of boxing, but not all trainers believe in them or use them, even to this day. Ali never lifted a weight in his life, but in his 2nd career Big George was a big lifter. Hatton lifts, but I don't think Floyd does, and so it goes.

The earliest mention of weights I've seen is a letter written by James Corbett to a NY strongman who gave him a set of dumbells to use. Corbett writes, "They done me good."

Pariah21388
09-19-2005, 08:24 PM
Over 50% of Holyfield's training was weight training.

dino
09-19-2005, 08:34 PM
heavyweights and cruiserweights lift weights im sure...but lifting weights tighten ur muscles making u less flexiable and slow supposlying..

.Go To Sleep.
09-19-2005, 10:20 PM
Power punchers = use weights
Quick/accurate punchers = dont use weights (for the most part)

Simple as that.

tebe6sm
09-19-2005, 11:26 PM
heavyweights and cruiserweights lift weights im sure...but lifting weights tighten ur muscles making u less flexiable and slow supposlying..


lifting weights will not slow you down

phallus
09-19-2005, 11:31 PM
jahmeel mccline lifts weights, at 3 minute intervals. he's only good for fighting in spurts though, that's the danger of big muscles - they use more energy and tire out faster, all though in jahmeel's case he's just too ****ing heavy, if he slimmed down to like 255 he could be alot more active and still have the power

Verstyle
09-20-2005, 01:05 AM
weights do make u slow. just look at tyson when he got out of jail in 95 he was alot bigger but a hell of alot slower

RwK
09-20-2005, 04:18 AM
You kidding me?

Shane Mosley was on the power lifting team in high school. He can benchpress over 300 lbs......just like Kostya Tszyu.

Hatton lifts weights with his legs all the time.

lets not forget Acelino Freitas and the Klitschko Brothers.

tebe6sm
09-20-2005, 02:43 PM
I've posted this thing before: http://www.rossboxing.com/thegym/thegym3.htm

Quote: "Science has proven that weight training can actually increase speed and power. A properly developed weight program will not sacrifice the speed of the boxer."

leff
09-20-2005, 03:20 PM
weights do make u slow. just look at tyson when he got out of jail in 95 he was alot bigger but a hell of alot slower

aging and inactivity makes you slower.

Rockin'
09-20-2005, 03:31 PM
Weights being used by boxers is not a bad thing. Using weights for speed, strength and endurance is great for a fighter. This is done by using lighter weight with high repetition. Lifting for bulk is not good for fighters, ofcourse unless they are trying to build mass for moving up in weight. From my experience it was the bulking muscular guys that were the easiest to fight. The bulk slows them down and does not neccesarily equal extra punching power. The power comes from proper punching technique, not bulging biceps or or a large chest. As a matter of fact the guys that I found punched the hardest were the skinny guys that you swore could not hurt anyone before we would start throwing fists. Thats why I say never under estimate anyone, no matter how much of a puss they may look like. There was one bulking muscular guy that I fought with that did pack alot of power in his shots. He had the rare combination of bulk and speed, that will normaly account for a tough night.

The power to knock somebody out is not determined by the size of the muscle. Its proper delivery and more than that, its hitting the guy when he does not know its coming. Thats boxing basics 101.

Rockin' :boxing:

leff
09-20-2005, 03:34 PM
where have you BEEN ?

Rockin'
09-20-2005, 03:43 PM
Im really not sure where Ive been. Its been a bunch of months in a row of just trying to survive and keep a roof over my head. I'll be around when I can get on line. Take care leff.

Rockin' :boxing:

Rockin'
09-20-2005, 04:38 PM
Bill Miller, the former trainer who took James Toney to the middleweight title just walked in a little while ago. I popped the question of boxers and weights to him and he responded, "You dont want to bulk up, it makes you slow..... Besides, what body builder have you ever seen that became a fighter, none!!! And what health spa ever produced a champion." Words from the mouth of the boxing wizard himself. I'll tell you guys that speaking with him about the game it is obvious that he has been around it and knows it through and through. As far as Im concerned, if Bill sez its so, than it is. What a great guy.


Rockin' :boxing:

jack_the_rippuh
09-20-2005, 07:04 PM
About that Shane Mosley/Kostya Tsyzu weight stuff, I gotta see it to believe it.

phallus
09-20-2005, 10:23 PM
Weights being used by boxers is not a bad thing. Using weights for speed, strength and endurance is great for a fighter. This is done by using lighter weight with high repetition. Lifting for bulk is not good for fighters, ofcourse unless they are trying to build mass for moving up in weight. From my experience it was the bulking muscular guys that were the easiest to fight. The bulk slows them down and does not neccesarily equal extra punching power. The power comes from proper punching technique, not bulging biceps or or a large chest. As a matter of fact the guys that I found punched the hardest were the skinny guys that you swore could not hurt anyone before we would start throwing fists. Thats why I say never under estimate anyone, no matter how much of a puss they may look like. There was one bulking muscular guy that I fought with that did pack alot of power in his shots. He had the rare combination of bulk and speed, that will normaly account for a tough night.

The power to knock somebody out is not determined by the size of the muscle. Its proper delivery and more than that, its hitting the guy when he does not know its coming. Thats boxing basics 101.

Rockin' :boxing:


great post, it's good to have u back Rockin!

PunchDrunk
09-21-2005, 05:22 AM
You've got a lot of facts wrong Rockin. It's not because you don't know boxing. Obviously you do. It's because you don't know much about strength training for athletes. A few points:

1. You equate weight lifting for boxers with what bodybuilders do. WRONG! They're completely different methods of training. You really should read into the subject.
2. You say: "The power to knock somebody out is not determined by the size of the muscle". Again, you're making the wrong conclusion, because you base it on your ignorance regarding weights. When you train a boxer for explosiveness with heavy weights, and low reps, you don't do it to increase muscle size. Again, that's bodybuilding. Boxers should lift weights to increase strength and explosiveness, and this CAN and IS being done. It's called neural adaptations.
3. Using lighter weights with high reps won't increase speed. Increasing speed is dependent on increasing your Fmax (max strength), which means lifting heavy, and then doing explosive lifts with lighter weights (plyometrics, and this is done with relative low rep schemes).
Lifting light weights with high reps, like you propose, is nothing but muscular endurance. Why train muscular endurance with weights, when heavy bags, mitts, sparring, shadowboxing etc., are so much more effective for this, not to mention a helluva lot more SPECIFIC to the skills needed in boxing? It's a damn waste of time.

In conclusion, yes you know boxing, but you don't know **** about weights. Name dropping, and then using invalid arguments just doesn't cut it. Read up on it, or shut up on it. ;)

Pinoy_Texan
09-21-2005, 06:24 AM
About that Shane Mosley/Kostya Tsyzu weight stuff, I gotta see it to believe it.

I didn't see anything about Shane Mosley but here's a link that says Zoo does weights with kettlebells.Link (http://www.kettlebell.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=12&sid=6ebed107ed3319d7faac304a0ecb8054)
No picture though.

Pooch
09-21-2005, 01:58 PM
You've got a lot of facts wrong Rockin. It's not because you don't know boxing. Obviously you do. It's because you don't know much about strength training for athletes. A few points:

1. You equate weight lifting for boxers with what bodybuilders do. WRONG! They're completely different methods of training. You really should read into the subject.
2. You say: "The power to knock somebody out is not determined by the size of the muscle". Again, you're making the wrong conclusion, because you base it on your ignorance regarding weights. When you train a boxer for explosiveness with heavy weights, and low reps, you don't do it to increase muscle size. Again, that's bodybuilding. Boxers should lift weights to increase strength and explosiveness, and this CAN and IS being done. It's called neural adaptations.
3. Using lighter weights with high reps won't increase speed. Increasing speed is dependent on increasing your Fmax (max strength), which means lifting heavy, and then doing explosive lifts with lighter weights (plyometrics, and this is done with relative low rep schemes).
Lifting light weights with high reps, like you propose, is nothing but muscular endurance. Why train muscular endurance with weights, when heavy bags, mitts, sparring, shadowboxing etc., are so much more effective for this, not to mention a helluva lot more SPECIFIC to the skills needed in boxing? It's a damn waste of time.

In conclusion, yes you know boxing, but you don't know **** about weights. Name dropping, and then using invalid arguments just doesn't cut it. Read up on it, or shut up on it. ;)
so what sort of weights routine would be benificial for a boxer or would just doing plyometrics be just as good/better?

Rockin'
09-21-2005, 02:25 PM
Punch Drunk,

I believe that my facts are right in order. Thankyou for you opinion.

Rockin' :boxing:

PunchDrunk
09-21-2005, 04:54 PM
Punch Drunk,

I believe that my facts are right in order. Thankyou for you opinion.

Rockin' :boxing:

I adress your points with arguments, and that's all you have to say? If you have no counter arguments or points, then don't say anything at all.

.::EnRiQuE::.
09-21-2005, 04:56 PM
punchdrunk knows **** about boxing...

PunchDrunk
09-21-2005, 04:59 PM
punchdrunk knows **** about boxing...

I guess you're the president of the Rockin1 fan club... :rolleyes:

You don't know **** about me.

PunchDrunk
09-21-2005, 05:05 PM
so what sort of weights routine would be benificial for a boxer or would just doing plyometrics be just as good/better?

It's not that simple. It depends on the individual boxer. His weight, age, build, training background, strong points, weak points, the time of his next fight, all that stuff.
Just like doing Roy Jones training regimen won't necessarily work for everybody (could be too hard, too easy or just not fit their style etc.), there isn't one weight training workout that is "the best", for everyone at any point in time. It really is a science, though most people in here apparently think it's just about finding out what Rocky Marciano ate for breakfast and then combining it with Floyd's ab workout... :D

Rockin'
09-21-2005, 05:06 PM
No, its the other way around.... Im the president of his. Good man KO!!!!!
Rockin' :boxing:

PunchDrunk
09-21-2005, 05:13 PM
And welcome to kindergarten!

Lol999
09-21-2005, 05:46 PM
So what's your background then Punchdrunk? I ask respectfully as it's known Rockin has boxed pro, so what's your own experiences to shape your opinions?

Lol

Sweat
09-21-2005, 11:46 PM
Weight training does make u a little bit slower. I based it on my personal experiences. I was a lot faster when I was doing a lot of cardio work outs. When I became a member of 24 hour fitness, I did a lot of weights, heavy weights. I noticed that my muscles are getting bigger and I'm getting bulky. I also noticed that I became slower since my muscles are a lot heavier now. I also noticed that my power increased tremendously but my stamina is worst than before.

BigDozer260
09-22-2005, 12:19 AM
Weight training does make u a little bit slower. I based it on my personal experiences. I was a lot faster when I was doing a lot of cardio work outs. When I became a member of 24 hour fitness, I did a lot of weights, heavy weights. I noticed that my muscles are getting bigger and I'm getting bulky. I also noticed that I became slower since my muscles are a lot heavier now. I also noticed that my power increased tremendously but my stamina is worst than before. And that is what is called non-functional muscle. You have developed bodybuilder muscle, it has no functional use in sports or atheletic movements. If you had a scientific training systems not only would have you gotten stronger but your muscle would be capable of firing more rapidly than before. You get what you train for, simple as that, train big and slow; get big and slow. You have to use all training methods available to improve functional athletic strength. Simply doing any one thing will result in physical regression, it's called plateauing. Your body adjust make more gains or actually loses results. Educate yourself about strength training and try again.

Sweat
09-22-2005, 12:35 AM
And that is what is called non-functional muscle. You have developed bodybuilder muscle, it has no functional use in sports or atheletic movements. If you had a scientific training systems not only would have you gotten stronger but your muscle would be capable of firing more rapidly than before. You get what you train for, simple as that, train big and slow; get big and slow. You have to use all training methods available to improve functional athletic strength. Simply doing any one thing will result in physical regression, it's called plateauing. Your body adjust make more gains or actually loses results. Educate yourself about strength training and try again.

then how the hell do I increase my power without loosing some of my speed? Should I do light weights and do more reps?

PunchDrunk
09-22-2005, 06:20 AM
So what's your background then Punchdrunk? I ask respectfully as it's known Rockin has boxed pro, so what's your own experiences to shape your opinions?

Lol

I've had 88 amateur fights over a period of almost 20 years. I currently train some of the top amateurs in my country (Denmark, which isn't saying much :D ). I have a sports conditioning (elite level) education. Like Big Dozer says, if you want to have a basic understanding of how training affects you, you need to educate yourself.
Clearly Rockin1 doesn't have this. I have never claimed he doesn't know boxing, but he doesn't know physiology, training theory, or anything about proper weight training for athletes (he equates it with bodybuilding ffs!). To claim this, is not to disrespect him in any way. In my opinion HE disrespects himself by putting out claims he cannot back up with anything other than namedropping (which is the first sign of lacking knowledge if you think about it). When I call him on his points, he doesn't try to make legitimate arguments, he talks around the actual subject and gets personal. If that's the kind of "insight" people prefer here, that's fine with me. If anyone wants to discuss actual SUBJECTS about training and boxing, then I'll be happy to participate. I'm done with the namecalling, and "my dad can beat up your dad" type arguments though. See ya' ;)

Lol999
09-22-2005, 07:47 AM
fair enough mate, just different opinions then. Why not share your knowledge, unless it would affect your living such as Bigdozer's, by posting articles in Training and Nutrition? If people don't want to use them fair comment, but I'm always open to a different perspective.

Lol

KidBlackie
09-22-2005, 10:52 AM
In theory, you could take a fighter and design a weight program to handle all of his training needs without ever having to run or skip rope. The only traditional training he'd have to do to be successful is sparring and bag work. He'd never have to leave the gym.

PunchDrunk
09-22-2005, 11:39 AM
In theory, you could take a fighter and design a weight program to handle all of his training needs without ever having to run or skip rope. The only traditional training he'd have to do to be successful is sparring and bag work. He'd never have to leave the gym.

If you're thinking about Tabata intervals and stuff like that, IN THEORY, I guess you could get pretty close. I think it's stretching it a bit though :)

PunchDrunk
09-22-2005, 11:45 AM
fair enough mate, just different opinions then. Why not share your knowledge, unless it would affect your living such as Bigdozer's, by posting articles in Training and Nutrition? If people don't want to use them fair comment, but I'm always open to a different perspective.

Lol
I thought I WAS trying to share? Like I said, I'm willing to participate in debates on the subject. I'm not gonna waste my time, if people think a single sentence, like "punchDrunk knows ****" constitutes an argument however. THAT betrays a lack of knowledge, and it's a waste of time.

Lol999
09-22-2005, 12:24 PM
Ok Punchdrunk, I've read the entire thread and see that you were stating your opinions on weight training. What I'm getting at is actually posting some sample exercises that are beneficial in the terms you write about. i.e. building strength and speed. Most of us aren't boxers but just like a good workout and your knowledge base seems extensive. Proper debate will only happen if you actually state some specifics. if you don't want to/don't have time that's cool and I can respect that.

Lol

Pooch
09-22-2005, 01:56 PM
i agree...although i go to boxing i dont class myself a 'boxer' due to the fact i have only been training a couple of months and am not fighting anytime soon. would it be possible punch drunk and big dozer to post some weight training exercises for us beginners. i know you said it depends on age etc but is there a few routines i.e for power/strength or speed that could be adapted to suit the specific person? if you could take the time im sure everyone would really appreciate it guys.

PunchDrunk
09-22-2005, 03:53 PM
I'll do a completely new post on the subject sometime during the weekend.

Lol999
09-22-2005, 04:05 PM
Nice one mate :D

Lol

KidBlackie
09-23-2005, 11:46 PM
[[[Swimming doesn't make you a better runner, running won't make you a better swimmer, and neither of these will meet your ultimate demands for boxing conditioning. Sure you'll be in excellent shape, but are you in the best possible shape for what you are pursuing?]]]]
============================

Most swimming programs have incorporated running and weights. Running is the King of conditioning, but I maintain a fighter could utilize a good circuit training program with some spinning and completely bypass running and rope work.

Older fighters might have knee problems or foot problems that prevent them from running. Guys like Willie Meehan and Tony Galento never ran a lick, ate like hosses, drank and smoked and had incredible careers. I suspect Randy Cobb wasn't much for road work either. You gotta know how to fight.

patto1984
09-26-2005, 11:22 PM
All im after is a decent complex training regime for an A-class 60kg 130pnd) 5'8 fighter. Im just wanting to know what muscles to train, what excercises to do to train them followed by the plyo excercises. ive looked up rossboxings complex regime but its pretty brief. Hardly no one knows about complex training and im not goin to uni or payin $55 a hour. big dozer help a broke up n comin champ out.

weights dont make u slow, like punchdrunk said look at nfl and rugby players.

Pugnacious_Z
09-27-2005, 12:06 AM
weights dont make u slow at all, maybe even faster, didnt make me slow at all

Super_Lightweight
09-27-2005, 12:42 PM
Roy Jones doesn't lift much. Mainly with his legs and at that it;s high reps and low weight. He only realy lifted otherwise for the Ruiz fight which is why he got so big (in addition to eating a lot).

Floydmayweather
09-28-2005, 02:46 AM
Lifting can make u faster if u do the right exercices and dont overtrain. I do push-press, jumpsquats, shrugs for the neck, hyperextensions, and lots of isometrics.

Hunna
09-28-2005, 05:22 AM
But here's one thing people don't realize, muscle fiber type is hereditary. Roy Jones might be one of those people with very high type IIa fibers(fast twitch) of maybe even type IIb/x(hyperlasia) muscle fibers mostly found in animals and very strong/fast humans. His abilities are not only a product of his training but his genetics as well. His training is probably not very different from many boxers, but his repsonse to his training was vastly different. So in some cases all the training in the world will not make you as fast or agile as Roy unless you are genetically predisposed to being that agile/fast/strong.

good point

Hunna
09-28-2005, 05:36 AM
a good routine would use all 3 systems as big dozer260 mentioned, especially for boxers. A technical training regime isnt really needed, just find exercises that concentrate on one of the systems.
As a boxer i do sprints, weights and boxing training (sparring+bagwork+padwork), which pretty much works my anaeobic and aerobic systems.
Sometimes days, ill go for a medium - fast pace 20 min run with boxing training and light weights.
on w/ends i might go 4 a swim or play some recreational sport.
Most importantly, u have 2 eat heaps when u train high intensity for over 4-5 days a week.
I was reading up on some olympic boxers (supremely fit athletes) and one fighter was commenting on how strenuous the sessions were becos they did hard weights sessions, (mixed in with 400 and 800s)long-runs and hard sparring sessions against other country fighters - thus, training regime using up a bit of each system.

Pugnacious_Z
09-28-2005, 09:34 AM
hey bigdozer, i read a bit about muscle fibres and realised dat type 2 muscle fibres(fast twitch) contract alot faster then type 1 fibres(slow twitch) but produce same force. doesnt dat mean dat foreman wud have slow twitch fibres in his pectorials and arms? seeing dat his punches had slow acceleration? and if dats the case, how cum he was so powerful? 1 more thing. how can u test urself to see if u have mostly 2b fibres? i seen one way which u have to do 80% of ur max lift and see how many times u can do it. 4-7 times means Type 2b, 8-13 means 2A and 13+ was type 1. is dis method accurate?

Hunna
09-28-2005, 10:05 AM
i am sprinter, so i know i am fast twitch, but also have ordinary endurance, so id say im type 2 b)
which pros do u think have predominatly slow twitch fibre , obviously, alot of heavyweights do e.g. Tua, Klitschkos. I reckon Jeff Lacy does surprisingly for a middleweight.

Tha Greatest
09-28-2005, 10:08 AM
i am sprinter, so i know i am fast twitch, but also have ordinary endurance, so id say im type 2 b)
which pros do u think have predominatly slow twitch fibre , obviously, alot of heavyweights do e.g. Tua, Klitschkos. I reckon Jeff Lacy does surprisingly for a middleweight.

You read to many rossboxing books.

Pugnacious_Z
09-28-2005, 10:16 AM
hunna, remember dat each muscle in ur body has different fibres, ur pecs cud have mostly type 2b and ur lats cud have mostly slow twitch.

Hunna
09-28-2005, 10:39 AM
You read to many rossboxing books.

i neva read rossboxing book, but u obviously have, i would say im predominantly fast twitch man, couldnt be a slow twitch fibre sprinter could i ? :rolleyes:

Pugnacious_Z
09-28-2005, 10:47 AM
hunna, ofcoarse u can be a slow twitch sprinter, it all depends on how fast u run. how fast do u run?

BigDozer260
09-28-2005, 01:33 PM
hey bigdozer, i read a bit about muscle fibres and realised dat type 2 muscle fibres(fast twitch) contract alot faster then type 1 fibres(slow twitch) but produce same force. doesnt dat mean dat foreman wud have slow twitch fibres in his pectorials and arms? seeing dat his punches had slow acceleration? and if dats the case, how cum he was so powerful? 1 more thing. how can u test urself to see if u have mostly 2b fibres? i seen one way which u have to do 80% of ur max lift and see how many times u can do it. 4-7 times means Type 2b, 8-13 means 2A and 13+ was type 1. is dis method accurate? Type IIb are not normal in humans, so even considering someone to be of that muscle fiber type isn't practical. I imagine less and 1 percent of the population are fortunate enough to possess this amazing muscle fiber type.

BigDozer260
09-28-2005, 01:34 PM
The only real way to tell your muscle fiber type is a muscle biopsy.

Pugnacious_Z
09-28-2005, 09:28 PM
i got my information from bodybuilding.com, on there it had written dat every1 had a bit slow twitch and a bit of fast, i thought every1 wud have atleast sum 2b muscles

Hunna
09-28-2005, 11:01 PM
10.9 tartan 11s on grass

Pugnacious_Z
09-28-2005, 11:42 PM
fuk dats fast hunna, u 4 sure have fast twitch on ur legs

Pugnacious_Z
09-28-2005, 11:45 PM
An easy way to see which muscle fibre u have most of is do an isolated exercise preferably or a bench press and fund out ur 1-rep max. then get 80% of ur max and see how many times u can do it. if u do it 10 times, u have 50/50 slow:fast. the less times u do, the more fast twith, the more times, the more slow twitch

rsl
09-29-2005, 12:06 AM
Type IIb are not normal in humans, so even considering someone to be of that muscle fiber type isn't practical. I imagine less and 1 percent of the population are fortunate enough to possess this amazing muscle fiber type.Yeah Allen Iverson, Dwayne Wade, Michael Vick, Bo Jackson, Reggie Bush, Roy Jones Jr., Floyd Mayweather Jr., Cassius Clay, Sugar Ray Leonard, oh before I forget Michael Jordan. Ooh Tiger Woods check out the torque and power of that swing amazing.

Pugnacious_Z
09-29-2005, 02:30 AM
cassius clay, wtf? many heavyweights punch faster then him

BigDozer260
09-29-2005, 03:12 AM
Yeah Allen Iverson, Dwayne Wade, Michael Vick, Bo Jackson, Reggie Bush, Roy Jones Jr., Floyd Mayweather Jr., Cassius Clay, Sugar Ray Leonard, oh before I forget Michael Jordan. Ooh Tiger Woods check out the torque and power of that swing amazing.Do you even know what hyperplasia is? Those names you mention is a result of superb technique matches with excellent motor recruitment capability. I did not mention hyperplasia start a guessing game of who might have muscle fibers who not only grow in diameter but increase in number of muscle cells. I will say this again no one can determine muslce fiber type without having a musle biopsy, not sports performance.

Pugnacious_Z
09-29-2005, 04:13 AM
hey bigdozer, no1 can get natural hyperplasia, its impossible i haerd, i heard u can get hyperplasia from more HGH

Chiro/Physio
09-29-2005, 05:24 AM
Lol Punchdrunk fighting again :) Nice to see you are doing your bit to enhance sports science, I would listen up, Mr drunk could help you out. BTW PD, I did ZERO aerobics in the avatar, (FAT loss thread, hehe).

paddy880
09-29-2005, 05:47 AM
i would say stay away from lifting weights and try traing with your own bodyweight thats the way we do it in our gym

Hunna
09-29-2005, 06:28 AM
Yeah Allen Iverson, Dwayne Wade, Michael Vick, Bo Jackson, Reggie Bush, Roy Jones Jr., Floyd Mayweather Jr., Cassius Clay, Sugar Ray Leonard, oh before I forget Michael Jordan. Ooh Tiger Woods check out the torque and power of that swing amazing.

tiger woods wouldnt have type II, look at his physiueq, its nothing special.

Hunna
09-29-2005, 06:32 AM
Do you even know what hyperplasia is? Those names you mention is a result of superb technique matches with excellent motor recruitment capability. I did not mention hyperplasia start a guessing game of who might have muscle fibers who not only grow in diameter but increase in number of muscle cells. I will say this again no one can determine muslce fiber type without having a musle biopsy, not sports performance.

true, that was guessing. IF RJJ, Carl lewis and Mosley...(class athletes) dont have superhuman fibres, then u got me stumped. :eek:

BigDozer260
09-29-2005, 05:29 PM
hey bigdozer, no1 can get natural hyperplasia, its impossible i haerd, i heard u can get hyperplasia from more HGHNo one huh? Whats your source because I know mine for sure. And my sources say hyperplasia is rare in humans, it does not say it was not possible. But yes most cases are from steroids/hgh. Yet it didn't rule out some form of unusual myostatin prohibition center.

BigDozer260
09-29-2005, 05:40 PM
i would say stay away from lifting weights and try traing with your own bodyweight thats the way we do it in our gymBut if you ask what association educated your boxing instructor I bet he will say; "What do you mean, association". Body weight exercises are great when they are all you have, but you better believe that they are not better that progressive overload. The only reason you get better at sports is because of skill development. You could improve greatly in skill dispite poor contitioning techniques, and still be a very competitive athlete even elite under certain circumstances. But in today's age of science and technology, you are men amongst giants. An equally skilled better conditioned fighter will really change your mind about training technique(i.e. lifting weights). Now granted since boxing is not the most educated sport on earth, scientific training is still a mystery. Boxing is a traditional sport and archaic and outdated training is a staple of boxing training to this very day. And with that in mind simply lifting weights won't work for athletes unless trainers who are knowlegable and well versed show them proper fitness structure. So in a nut shell you don't use weights in your gym becaue your trainers don't now how to use the weights themselves.

Kid Achilles
09-29-2005, 06:43 PM
There are no absolutes in boxing. To say weightlifting is bad for a boxer is a narrow minded comment. Make no mistake.

However, to say that all boxers should lift, even those who attempt to do so without the tutelage of a competent weightlifting/boxing coach who understands both disciplines, could be a mistake. I see a lot of guys in the weightroom with horrendous technique and I don't even mean boxers neccesarily. These guys are doing their bodies more harm than good.

When I see rounded back deadlifts, and endless sets of concentration curls without a thought to the development of the legs and back, even a guy with my limited weightlifting education has to scratch my head in embarassment.

So if you have someone you can show you proper form, and which exercises you should spend the bulk of your time mastering, then by all means lift. But if you are going to go out there and be stubborn and build an unbalanced physique or use improper form and injure yourself, perhaps you should stick to the bodyweight exercises.

That's all I have to say on the matter.

BigDozer260
09-29-2005, 07:04 PM
There are no absolutes in boxing. To say weightlifting is bad for a boxer is a narrow minded comment. Make no mistake.

However, to say that all boxers should lift, even those who attempt to do so without the tutelage of a competent weightlifting/boxing coach who understands both disciplines, could be a mistake. I see a lot of guys in the weightroom with horrendous technique and I don't even mean boxers neccesarily. These guys are doing their bodies more harm than good.

When I see rounded back deadlifts, and endless sets of concentration curls without a thought to the development of the legs and back, even a guy with my limited weightlifting education has to scratch my head in embarassment.

So if you have someone you can show you proper form, and which exercises you should spend the bulk of your time mastering, then by all means lift. But if you are going to go out there and be stubborn and build an unbalanced physique or use improper form and injure yourself, perhaps you should stick to the bodyweight exercises.

That's all I have to say on the matter.Very good points, very good indeed. Boxers need sports conditioning specialist more than any other sport simply because of it's very outdated theories. A beginner should not be performing exercises to failure, I don't teach my athletes that **** until they are more advanced and have good general knowledge and base conditioning. More structured sports like, football(which I played in highschool) have strength and conditioning coaches as part of the team. They do have done all the mental work for the athletes all they have to do is complete their assigned workouts. Boxing has nothing like this no one is there to refine the weight lifting techniques, or structure weight training for the needs of each player and position players like wide receivers and defensive linemen. They need a very different yet similar set of metabolic fitness. Boxing has very few who are educated in the needs of each athlete, and I don't think most trainers even want to learn a broader array of training, the dog is too old to be taught new tricks.

Pugnacious_Z
09-29-2005, 10:38 PM
hey bigdozer, do u know which steroids can cause hyperplasia? and do u know anything about the product myoblast csp-3? i heard it increases ur muscles beyond genetics, any truth to dis?

rsl
09-30-2005, 04:38 AM
tiger woods wouldnt have type II, look at his physiueq, its nothing special.Have you ever seen Deion Sander's physique? Physical appearance has nothing to do w/ what type you have.

PunchDrunk
09-30-2005, 04:48 AM
But if you ask what association educated your boxing instructor I bet he will say; "What do you mean, association". Body weight exercises are great when they are all you have, but you better believe that they are not better that progressive overload. The only reason you get better at sports is because of skill development. You could improve greatly in skill dispite poor contitioning techniques, and still be a very competitive athlete even elite under certain circumstances. But in today's age of science and technology, you are men amongst giants. An equally skilled better conditioned fighter will really change your mind about training technique(i.e. lifting weights). Now granted since boxing is not the most educated sport on earth, scientific training is still a mystery. Boxing is a traditional sport and archaic and outdated training is a staple of boxing training to this very day. And with that in mind simply lifting weights won't work for athletes unless trainers who are knowlegable and well versed show them proper fitness structure. So in a nut shell you don't use weights in your gym becaue your trainers don't now how to use the weights themselves.

Best post I've ever seen on this board!

KidBlackie
09-30-2005, 07:54 AM
[[[Boxing is a traditional sport and archaic and outdated training is a staple of boxing training to this very day. And with that in mind simply lifting weights won't work for athletes unless trainers who are knowlegable and well versed show them proper fitness structure. ]]]
=================================

Boxing training was quite advanced for it's day and what you see today in boxing is an amalgamation of traditional techiques with modern ones. Like I previously pointed out, it is a myth that traditional boxing never included weights.

All this modern training stuff looks good on paper, but many of these fighters do have modern accredited trainers and often gas out in 12 round fights. Let's just remember there is no holy grail of training. Different bodies react differently to the same training. Today's training will look just as quaint in a few decades, especially when genetic enhancements start to become routine and newer training techniques are developed. Regardless, weight training should never be more than a supplement to the development of specific skills and attributes needed for boxing.

BigDozer260
09-30-2005, 06:27 PM
[[[Boxing is a traditional sport and archaic and outdated training is a staple of boxing training to this very day. And with that in mind simply lifting weights won't work for athletes unless trainers who are knowlegable and well versed show them proper fitness structure. ]]]
=================================

Boxing training was quite advanced for it's day and what you see today in boxing is an amalgamation of traditional techiques with modern ones. Like I previously pointed out, it is a myth that traditional boxing never included weights.

All this modern training stuff looks good on paper, but many of these fighters do have modern accredited trainers and often gas out in 12 round fights. Let's just remember there is no holy grail of training. Different bodies react differently to the same training. Today's training will look just as quaint in a few decades, especially when genetic enhancements start to become routine and newer training techniques are developed. Regardless, weight training should never be more than a supplement to the development of specific skills and attributes needed for boxing. Yeah, the same thing I've said in post after post. I am simply trying to show these micreants, that weight lifting has a place in any routine. And I've heard the training routines of some of these guys that their so called "Personal Trainers" creates for them, and it's utter trash. Fitness trainer and sports conditioning specialist are two different things I kid you not. One is only focus on general fitness and wellness, the other also focuses on the former, yet digs into the specifics of physical needs of each type of athlete. Oh and remember this one thing, in basketball if you ain't good enough you never make it to the NBA, like wise in MLB, NFL, NHL, and so on and so forth. Not in boxing. I've seen guys start training in boxing one month, next month they turn pro and got their ass butalized. No one will say lets assess your skill to see if you are elite enough for pro boxing. If you aint' good enough you ain't good enough, no trainer in the world can make you good enough. You can train hard as hell but at the end of the day genetics seem to continue to reign supreme. A pro boxer doesn't represent the best in the world, he represents a man hoping to make money boxing. A pro football player on the other hand has to make it through the fires of hell to prove they deserve to even call themselves a pro. Boxing never really serperates pros from amateurs, you either deside to go pro or you don't simply as that. I as a sports contitioning specialist can only imporve upon what is laid before me, one athlete may become the greatest in the entire universe, while the other might only become the personal best they have ever been, and the latter still feels victorious. Just because you have boxed since you were 4 doesn't mean you will become the greatest ever, regardless of who is training you, like wise with any other sport. You become better through your trials and errors, but does that mean you are amongst the best in the world? Not necessarily. Guys just remember this, the canvas the artist paints on is equally as important as the artist himself.

Kayo
10-02-2005, 04:22 PM
LEEEROOOOOOOOOY JENKIIIIIINS!

HAHAHAHAHA FUNNIEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN

Hunna
10-02-2005, 09:37 PM
Bigdozer u mentioned boxing doesnt separate pros from amatuers, once again remember, ur a sports conditioning specialist not a boxer, so u wouldnt know the difference.

BigDozer260
10-03-2005, 01:16 AM
Bigdozer u mentioned boxing doesnt separate pros from amatuers, once again remember, ur a sports conditioning specialist not a boxer, so u wouldnt know the difference.Yep I sure am , and nope I sure don't. This is a boxing forum not a fitness forum regadless of the board name. This ain't sportsspecific.com or bodybuilding.com and that's where I'll be from now on.

Pooch
10-03-2005, 03:05 PM
seeing as you guys are so reluctant to post actual routines (punch drunk, bigdozer) due to the fact its what u earn your green doing and dont want to doit for free could u at least give the names of some weights exercises to help speed and strength for boxing, not building size please. would really appreciate the help. thanks.

|-|urricane|-|awes
10-08-2005, 03:10 AM
Weightlifting has been a misnomer of sorts in the boxing world. I agreem that it can help. I currently use small weights to keep my muscles solid but have not been trained to use weights. I am trained by one of the old school boxers in Gene Fullmer and his brothers Jay and Don. They never used weights nor did the greatest Ali. I have learned that you will gain your speed and power through using the heavy bag and plyometric routines. I would be careful not to put on to much muscle that will add extra weight which can cause you to slow and obtain added fatigue in the later rounds.

phook
10-08-2005, 03:52 AM
this topic has been argued so many times its not funny. weights improve fighter if uses the right way, like lifting explosively

Slipx
10-08-2005, 07:39 AM
I've had 88 amateur fights over a period of almost 20 years. I currently train some of the top amateurs in my country (Denmark, which isn't saying much :D ). I have a sports conditioning (elite level) education. Like Big Dozer says, if you want to have a basic understanding of how training affects you, you need to educate yourself.
Clearly Rockin1 doesn't have this. I have never claimed he doesn't know boxing, but he doesn't know physiology, training theory, or anything about proper weight training for athletes (he equates it with bodybuilding ffs!). To claim this, is not to disrespect him in any way. In my opinion HE disrespects himself by putting out claims he cannot back up with anything other than namedropping (which is the first sign of lacking knowledge if you think about it). When I call him on his points, he doesn't try to make legitimate arguments, he talks around the actual subject and gets personal. If that's the kind of "insight" people prefer here, that's fine with me. If anyone wants to discuss actual SUBJECTS about training and boxing, then I'll be happy to participate. I'm done with the namecalling, and "my dad can beat up your dad" type arguments though. See ya' ;)

I totally agree with you not only on the points you made about lifting, but Rockin evading you as well.

Personally, I do not lift. I swim a whole lot instead.

Rockin'
10-08-2005, 07:04 PM
First of all, Rockin' ducks nobody.

Next, my theories of training are not something that I read from a book, they are theories learned while fighting. Ive had amatuer fights and Ive had professional bouts. I learned my trade first hand and I stand by what I believe.

My absence from the site is in no way an avoidance of the debate, it is simply a fact that I do not have on line capabilities at my house and when I am here it means that I am on break, while in my daily routine at the gym where I am training boxers and such.

I have no need to prove my knowledge to anybody. My knowledge of the game is sound and concrete. Because I disagree with some ideas about weight training for boxers in no way should you or could you knock what I know about boxing, its training methods and theories or any part of it. I have been in this game for over 20 years and am continuing in the game both as a trainer and a professional and amatuer referee.

So if you want to knock me for disagreements thats cool. But do not knock my knowledge of this sport. I have been and will be in the thick of the sport for the rest of my life.

And as for me "dropping names", it in no way means that I lack knowledge. It simply means that when I said that I asked Bill Miller his opinion on the weight subject, he agreed with me that fighters do not need heavyweights. I see the guy on a daily basis and have many oppertunities to speak with him. And quite frankly, I will take my opinion and especially Bills opinion over yours on any subject that has to do with boxing.



Rockin' :boxing:

BigDozer260
10-08-2005, 07:44 PM
First of all, Rockin' ducks nobody.

Next, my theories of training are not something that I read from a book, they are theories learned while fighting. Ive had amatuer fights and Ive had professional bouts. I learned my trade first hand and I stand by what I believe.

My absence from the site is in no way an avoidance of the debate, it is simply a fact that I do not have on line capabilities at my house and when I am here it means that I am on break, while in my daily routine at the gym where I am training boxers and such.

I have no need to prove my knowledge to anybody. My knowledge of the game is sound and concrete. Because I disagree with some ideas about weight training for boxers in no way should you or could you knock what I know about boxing, its training methods and theories or any part of it. I have been in this game for over 20 years and am continuing in the game both as a trainer and a professional and amatuer referee.

So if you want to knock me for disagreements thats cool. But do not knock my knowledge of this sport. I have been and will be in the thick of the sport for the rest of my life.



Rockin' :boxing:
I seem to never talk about training theory, for the simple fact that I create new ideas about training, I don't give out training theory for free. I do give out biological and physiological responses to training which is the body never changing adaptation and energy systems. The fact of the matter is that the human anatomy doesn't change and that is my focal point, manipulating the various systems and fucnctions of muscles and chemical processes related to sports performance and fitness. Training is specific to each individual, but each person has the same basic physiologic and biological components, and like I said that is where I specialze. Most people I talk to don't understand what the **** I'm talking about when I mention things like protein filaments, myosin, anctin, ATpase and various others thing making muscles work. I want the total picture not just a narrow veiw point. I don't and will never discuss training theory with any of you, period. But physilogy is no secret, it is the basis on which we all function, not my opinion, and I hate when people proclaim, what I say is my opinion, because my opinion is that most people are stupid, black women are the most beautiful in the world, and that a big thick round booty is better than big tits any day. That is opinion, research done using electormyography, electron microscopes, muscle biopsy and readiocative tracers, show solid tangible results. Opinion is something that has no absolute proven truth, only predecates on limited or personal experience. FACT is something that is constant, never changing, always proven , not a case by case basis, because it is the basis. A surgeon learns facts, a lawyer learns facts, a psychiatrist learns facts, yet each applys facts differently, some whith great success and confidence, other not so much. Yet those not versed understand they are not versed and listen to them and take their advice, not in my profession, everbody's an expert, and knows nothing at all. I don't care what sport you participate in, you still use the machine called the human body, and you can't maximize this machine to it's limits unless you understand what really makes it tick. Don't disrepect the sciene or the hard work of the scientists who studied this amazing vessel God created for us all by proclaiming, it's function as opinion, and don't disrepect me or the other countless fitness professionals with you opinions on how it functions.

Pugnacious_Z
10-09-2005, 09:45 AM
hey bigdozer, i read b4 dat u said dat lightweights done explosively will not increase 2b fibres but i have read otherwise. i read dat its not about the weight u lift but the force u create meaning dat u wud work more 2b fibres if u lift 70kg fast rather then 100kg explosively. and there have research done to prove dat off seasons increase 2b fibre percentage. did u know any of dis?

leff
10-09-2005, 10:04 AM
hey bigdozer, i read b4 dat u said dat lightweights done explosively will not increase 2b fibres but i have read otherwise. i read dat its not about the weight u lift but the force u create meaning dat u wud work more 2b fibres if u lift 70kg fast rather then 100kg explosively. and there have research done to prove dat off seasons increase 2b fibre percentage. did u know any of dis?

perhaps, but ive heard that you should lift 85-90% off your max cause than you have to lift explosive.

patto1984
10-10-2005, 12:52 AM
thats rite, if u lift heavy of course u have to do it explosivly, even if it means only 2 reps

Hunna
10-10-2005, 09:13 AM
sprinters do heavy weights, like almost max. everytime they do a workout. Main difference between a bodybuilder and sprinter is pretty much the running, the running shapes the muscles and keeps them more trim.
sprinters are super fast and do heavy weights, sometimes slow.

Warhawk46
10-10-2005, 10:30 AM
Of course sprinters use heavy weights...they need to build explosive power, and you dont do this by dinking around with light weights.

The same applies to boxing, a largely anerobic sport that requires explosive power. Besides many boxer and trainers being in denial to the benefits of weight training, many boxers who choose to build strength through weight training train incorrectly for the sport.

There is a misconception among many involved in the sport that using light weights with high reps is most beneficial...this is absolutely wrong. This misconception is borne out of ignorance and hinders many a fighter.

Bottom Line: Boxing is an explosive sport... you dont build explosive power and fast-twitch musle fibers by doing a light weight 50 times.

hardhitter
10-10-2005, 11:35 AM
Isnt it down to personal preference or what the trainer prefers ? some pro boxers use weights others dont, does it really have that much of an effect ?

Rockin'
10-10-2005, 01:51 PM
Explosive strength is needed in boxing, I can not disagree with that. But remember, more than explosive strength a fighter MUST have endurance.

Sure the sprinters will lift heavyweights for the explosive strength. They are only running for 10 seconds.

You must remember that boxing is in no way a sprint.

How many long distance runners do you see lifting heavy weights.

As my trainer used to say, "People think that running a marathon would be the toughest thing to do, fighting a ten round fight is like running a marathon, except that somebodies beating the **** out of you while your doing it."

Explosive strength is great for short distances and short periods of time. Boxing in the ring is not a short time. Ofcourse you could train to knockout every fighter that you face in a round or two but what if you cant. No fighter will knockout every fighter that he will face and when that happens that fighter will then have to rely on his endurance to carry him through.

Boxing is about endurance, not pure strength.

Again as my trainer would say, "You can be the strongest mother****er around, but once you get tired how strong will you be..... Fatigue makes cowards of us all."

Rockin' :boxing:

Rampage*
10-10-2005, 02:32 PM
Explosive strength is needed in boxing, I can not disagree with that. But remember, more than explosive strength a fighter MUST have endurance.

Sure the sprinters will lift heavyweights for the explosive strength. They are only running for 10 seconds.

You must remember that boxing is in no way a sprint.

How many long distance runners do you see lifting heavy weights.

As my trainer used to say, "People think that running a marathon would be the toughest thing to do, fighting a ten round fight is like running a marathon, except that somebodies beating the **** out of you while your doing it."

Explosive strength is great for short distances and short periods of time. Boxing in the ring is not a short time. Ofcourse you could train to knockout every fighter that you face in a round or two but what if you cant. No fighter will knockout every fighter that he will face and when that happens that fighter will then have to rely on his endurance to carry him through.

Boxing is about endurance, not pure strength.

Again as my trainer would say, "You can be the strongest mother****er around, but once you get tired how strong will you be..... Fatigue makes cowards of us all."

Rockin' :boxing:

Holy ****, awesome post man! You always give great advice and knowledge.

PunchDrunk
10-10-2005, 04:28 PM
Explosive strength is needed in boxing, I can not disagree with that. But remember, more than explosive strength a fighter MUST have endurance.

Sure the sprinters will lift heavyweights for the explosive strength. They are only running for 10 seconds.

You must remember that boxing is in no way a sprint.

How many long distance runners do you see lifting heavy weights.

As my trainer used to say, "People think that running a marathon would be the toughest thing to do, fighting a ten round fight is like running a marathon, except that somebodies beating the **** out of you while your doing it."

Explosive strength is great for short distances and short periods of time. Boxing in the ring is not a short time. Ofcourse you could train to knockout every fighter that you face in a round or two but what if you cant. No fighter will knockout every fighter that he will face and when that happens that fighter will then have to rely on his endurance to carry him through.

Boxing is about endurance, not pure strength.

Again as my trainer would say, "You can be the strongest mother****er around, but once you get tired how strong will you be..... Fatigue makes cowards of us all."

Rockin' :boxing:

Once again, you absolutely miss the point. No one is saying you shouldn't work on endurance. Endurance work is best (nad most SPECIFICALLY) done on the heavy bag, sparring, mitts and all the other boxing specific activities. Heck, even running.
If all that builds endurance, why oh WHY would you waste time doing endurance work with weights???? If you're gonna bother with the weights, then use them for something you can't work on with all the other training methods. Strength and explosiveness.

And please don't oversimplify things. I think you should ask Bill Miller again, 'cause you must've forgot a thing or two.
Boxing isn't about any ONE thing. If you seriously believe that, you are out of your mind. Boxing is about anaerobic endurance, aerobic endurance, strength/speed/power (these are interdependant on one another), technique, tactics, heart and a bunch of other things.
Therefore you need a training regimen that takes all of these factors into account. If you were right in your LUDICROUS statement that boxing is only about endurance, then all boxers would have to do was run for miles and miles. No technical work, no bag work, no mitts, no sparring.
No one ever said that you have to hit the weights 5 times a week or even 3 times. We're simply saying that you need a balanced program, that works on ALL the factors that make an effective fighter. Yes, more power makes you more effective. Also the strength training will make you move faster and easier, it's not just about punching harder.
If you have two athletes that are equal in all things. Technique, endurance, will, tactical ability etc., and one guy simply has more power, who will win? Don't answer that, you'll probably get it wrong... :rolleyes:

Bottom line: If you are a fighter, and you do your training to your utmost ability, you'll be as good as you can be. If you add the weights to your arsenal, and do it RIGHT, then you'll be just a little better than if you don't.

Rockin'
10-10-2005, 04:37 PM
If my posts are ludicrous and off target than ignore them.

Boxing IS more about endurance than pure strength.

I have never said that weights were not good for fighters. I lifted when I was an amatuer fighter but never touched them as a pro. I simply stated that heavy weights were not good for fighters. You can try to break my balls all that you want over the subject, I really dont care. I have my way of training a fighter and you have yours. So stop trying to stick your johnson in my arse every time that I post.

Rockin' :fu2:

Rockin'
10-10-2005, 05:05 PM
Once again, you absolutely miss the point. No one is saying you shouldn't work on endurance. Endurance work is best (nad most SPECIFICALLY) done on the heavy bag, sparring, mitts and all the other boxing specific activities. Heck, even running.
If all that builds endurance, why oh WHY would you waste time doing endurance work with weights???? If you're gonna bother with the weights, then use them for something you can't work on with all the other training methods. Strength and explosiveness.

And please don't oversimplify things. I think you should ask Bill Miller again, 'cause you must've forgot a thing or two.
Boxing isn't about any ONE thing. If you seriously believe that, you are out of your mind. Boxing is about anaerobic endurance, aerobic endurance, strength/speed/power (these are interdependant on one another), technique, tactics, heart and a bunch of other things.
Therefore you need a training regimen that takes all of these factors into account. If you were right in your LUDICROUS statement that boxing is only about endurance, then all boxers would have to do was run for miles and miles. No technical work, no bag work, no mitts, no sparring.
No one ever said that you have to hit the weights 5 times a week or even 3 times. We're simply saying that you need a balanced program, that works on ALL the factors that make an effective fighter. Yes, more power makes you more effective. Also the strength training will make you move faster and easier, it's not just about punching harder.
If you have two athletes that are equal in all things. Technique, endurance, will, tactical ability etc., and one guy simply has more power, who will win? Don't answer that, you'll probably get it wrong... :rolleyes:

Bottom line: If you are a fighter, and you do your training to your utmost ability, you'll be as good as you can be. If you add the weights to your arsenal, and do it RIGHT, then you'll be just a little better than if you don't.


I say we take this to Thunderdome. Rockin' one enter, punchdrunks a dweeb.

Rockin' :boxing:

hardhitter
10-10-2005, 05:07 PM
I agree with both of you, you do need to be fast and explosive and also have the endurance to last 10/ 12 rounds. It is no good having explosive, quick and powerful punches if you're blowing after 3 rounds, you gotta strike a good balance.

i do weights, i dont lift heavy weights as i feel in my opinion that you lose a bit of flexibility and they slow you up if they are heavy, i do light weight with high reps. to get speed and power i do bag work, and prefer my own bodyweight exercises instead of the heavy weights.

i still think its about personal preference to which you choose and if it works who cares !!

Rockin'
10-10-2005, 05:09 PM
lifting light weights with high reps will build strength as well as endurance. Thats what this whole beef is about with me and punchdrunk. Thanks for your input man.

I shadowboxed every round with 2.5 lb weights in my hands. My speed became incredible and my power increased aswell. Heavyweights are not needed in boxing unless you are trying to bulk up and move up in weight classes.

Rockin' :boxing:

patto1984
10-10-2005, 08:49 PM
lifting light weights with high reps will build strength as well as endurance. Thats what this whole beef is about with me and punchdrunk. Thanks for your input man.

I shadowboxed every round with 2.5 lb weights in my hands. My speed became incredible and my power increased aswell. Heavyweights are not needed in boxing unless you are trying to bulk up and move up in weight classes.

Rockin' :boxing:

ive dropped 3 kilo (60kg-57kg) for my next bout and still doing heavy weights once a week. I dont think its about bulking up, just increasing strength. If i ate like a pig then id probly be bulking up.

PunchDrunk
10-11-2005, 11:01 AM
ive dropped 3 kilo (60kg-57kg) for my next bout and still doing heavy weights once a week. I dont think its about bulking up, just increasing strength. If i ate like a pig then id probly be bulking up.

Exactly! One of my fighters went from 63.5 kg to 56.5 in two months, while lifting heavy. It's NOT about bulking up. It's about doing it right.

Oh, and Rock? You got it, consider yourself on ignore. ;)