View Full Version : Roy Jones on his place in history


Vadrigar.
04-07-2011, 05:16 AM
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Do you agree with Roy?

BattlingNelson
04-07-2011, 05:48 AM
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Do you agree with Roy?
Do you?

(I cant see it on this PC).

Barn
04-07-2011, 08:03 AM
I was thinking about Tarver KO2 as well.

Oh and Roy. Timing > Speed.

Gene Tunney has great timing.

NChristo
04-07-2011, 08:06 AM
Not really on his place in History, it's just on if he thinks he could beat the great past Light Heavies and all he answers is "I'm too quick, speed".

Imo Spinks and Charles beat him out of those named, not sure on Foster.

TheHolyCross
04-07-2011, 08:22 AM
yes i agree

CarlosG815
04-07-2011, 10:34 AM
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Do you agree with Roy?

Yes. Roy could beat them all.

DarkTerror88
04-07-2011, 11:37 AM
I was thinking about Tarver KO2 as well.

Oh and Roy. Timing > Speed.

Gene Tunney has great timing.

Imagine the Tarver KO2 but with Bobby Foster in there instead.

I think Tunney, Charles, Spinks and maybe Qawi beat him.

Speed helps but it doesnt assure victory. A smart fighter can beat a fast one. And its hard to find smarter fighters than Tunney and Charles @ LHW.

THE REED™
04-07-2011, 11:50 AM
:lol1:

I just find the comedy in how he says it

IronDanHamza
04-07-2011, 11:52 AM
I think it's abit narrow minded when asked why you would beat these ATG's his only reply is speed.

Speed alone is not going to beat all of those guys.

Not saying Roy couldn't but he could have atleast expanded on his opinion.

And for the record I don't see Roy beating Spinks, Charles or Foster.

SCtrojansbaby
04-07-2011, 03:19 PM
LOL you people. He says speed because he has every other concievable skill. As you all know i have a tough time seeing any body from the 50s or whatever beating any great modern fighter.

Roy knocks Spinks out with ease Spinks main weapon was speed when he realizes not only is he the slower fighter but WAAAAY slower its all over. Roy knocks him out late.

Foster is tough because height like power is an equalizer. Roy always had the right gameplan(fight a boxer, box a fighter) though so he would be agressive but I think it would probable be a close decision Roy breaks him down to the body.

LOL Qawi gets shutout.

The_Demon
04-07-2011, 03:24 PM
Spinks,Foster and Charles knock Roy out

MARKBNLV
04-07-2011, 03:27 PM
He sounds ignorant i think he would beat the fighters mentioned except for Tunney,also i think Micheal Moorer even in his prime would have spanked him.But then again i think Micheal Moorer at lhw and cw was simply unbeatable.

Steak
04-07-2011, 03:28 PM
LOL you people. He says speed because he has every other concievable skill. As you all know i have a tough time seeing any body from the 50s or whatever beating any great modern fighter.

Roy knocks Spinks out with ease Spinks main weapon was speed when he realizes not only is he the slower fighter but WAAAAY slower its all over. Roy knocks him out late.

Foster is tough because height like power is an equalizer. Roy always had the right gameplan(fight a boxer, box a fighter) though so he would be agressive but I think it would probable be a close decision Roy breaks him down to the body.

LOL Qawi gets shutout.You say that 'height is an equalizer', but Spinks was just as tall as Bob Foster. 6'2 1/2. and Spinks had a very difficult style to deal with, I would not say he was based around his speed either.

SCtrojansbaby
04-07-2011, 03:36 PM
I have heard Foster was 6'4 with loooooong arms maybe I overrated his height. But I have seen Spinks he isn't any taller then say Clinton Woods or Antonio Tarver

fitefanSHO
04-07-2011, 04:34 PM
IMO, Jones is the MOST overrated fighter of all time.

He almost had history fooled into thinking he was Top 5/10 GOAT but brutal KO losses to Tarver, Johnson, and Green (as well as recently getting shut out by Calzaghe and Hopkins) have thankfully put his career into some much needed perspective.

Not Top 50 GOAT
Not in my Top 10 Middleweights
Not in my Top 10 Light Heavyweights

The only Top 10 list I put Jones in is "Most Overrated" #1! :boxing:

RFPROBOX
04-07-2011, 04:57 PM
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Do you agree with Roy?

roy jones is a fraud with a glass jaw. he always was and always will be. I called this back in his shuck and jive chicken dancing days. he shouldn't even dream about mentioning Gene Tunneys name. THAT was a real boxer with skills and technique. not some undisciplined illiterate fighter who relied on some moves and quick reflexes like a Jones, Mayweather, Ali. Leonard. If you don't study the game you'll flunk out in the end. case and point: Jones. look how all those fighters ended up when they lost the reflexes? Boy Mayweather is next.

The Surgeon
04-07-2011, 05:27 PM
He's a great fighter, every bit as or infact even greater than those mentioned were in there own times. I for one agree with him on those results, and i agree speed is the main reason why. Tarver gets spanked by a younger Roy who didnt make the jump to HW, thats a given imo

BigStereotype
04-07-2011, 05:34 PM
I don't know how he does it. Roy is the only guy who can go "I'ma whoop him, I'ma whoop him, I'ma whoop him, Too fast for all of them, fastest light heavyweight ever and I'm powerful too" and not sound like a total jackass. I agree with him, too. I think that h2h, he can beat anyone on his best day. Now I wouldn't say he's a lock to beat a guy like Spinks, but I wouldn't pick anyone against him. There are even money fights, but that's as bad as he gets. Roy was a great, great fighter.

IronDanHamza
04-07-2011, 06:45 PM
I don't know how he does it. Roy is the only guy who can go "I'ma whoop him, I'ma whoop him, I'ma whoop him, Too fast for all of them, fastest light heavyweight ever and I'm powerful too" and not sound like a total jackass. I agree with him, too. I think that h2h, he can beat anyone on his best day. Now I wouldn't say he's a lock to beat a guy like Spinks, but I wouldn't pick anyone against him. There are even money fights, but that's as bad as he gets. Roy was a great, great fighter.

He kind of does, though.

When asked how he would beat Ezzard Charles or Micheal Spinks and replying with 'Speed' and nothing else is a jackass comment. Atleast to me it is.

It's so abudently obvious Roy Jones wouldn't walk through these fighters like he is suggesting. Atleast expand more than saying, "speed".

The Surgeon
04-07-2011, 06:48 PM
He kind of does, though.

When asked how he would beat Ezzard Charles or Micheal Spinks and replying with 'Speed' and nothing else is a jackass comment. Atleast to me it is.

It's so abudently obvious Roy Jones wouldn't walk through these fighters like he is suggesting. Atleast expand more than saying, "speed".

I think he SHOULD sound like a clown but DOSENT.

Roy is right, speed would be the biggest factor, obviously he knows there would be more to it than that but he's just keeping it simple giving a quick interview thats all.

My take anyways

RubenSonny
04-07-2011, 06:51 PM
roy jones is a fraud with a glass jaw. he always was and always will be. I called this back in his shuck and jive chicken dancing days. he shouldn't even dream about mentioning Gene Tunneys name. THAT was a real boxer with skills and technique. not some undisciplined illiterate fighter who relied on some moves and quick reflexes like a Jones, Mayweather, Ali. Leonard. If you don't study the game you'll flunk out in the end. case and point: Jones. look how all those fighters ended up when they lost the reflexes? Boy Mayweather is next.

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SCtrojansbaby
04-07-2011, 07:25 PM
He kind of does, though.

When asked how he would beat Ezzard Charles or Micheal Spinks and replying with 'Speed' and nothing else is a jackass comment. Atleast to me it is.

It's so abudently obvious Roy Jones wouldn't walk through these fighters like he is suggesting. Atleast expand more than saying, "speed".


What makes you think that?

BigStereotype
04-07-2011, 07:43 PM
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Well put.

nachorjj
04-07-2011, 07:55 PM
I agree with Roy to quick to skiller and power

joseph5620
04-07-2011, 08:33 PM
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:lol1::lol1:

Ziggy Stardust
04-07-2011, 08:48 PM
roy jones is a fraud with a glass jaw. he always was and always will be. I called this back in his shuck and jive chicken dancing days. he shouldn't even dream about mentioning Gene Tunneys name. THAT was a real boxer with skills and technique. not some undisciplined illiterate fighter who relied on some moves and quick reflexes like a Jones, Mayweather, Ali. Leonard. If you don't study the game you'll flunk out in the end. case and point: Jones. look how all those fighters ended up when they lost the reflexes? Boy Mayweather is next.

^^^^^ Would someone just ban this race baiting twat already? :rolleyes9:

Poet

The_Demon
04-07-2011, 09:03 PM
^^^^^ Would someone just ban this race baiting twat already? :rolleyes9:

Poet

I was thinking the same thing,what is it with all these trolls?

IMDAZED
04-07-2011, 10:21 PM
Why do people act as if the Tarver KO occurred when Roy was 28? He was 35, 50+ fights and nearly 15 years in to his professional career. After a long, storied amateur career. He began fighting when he was still in single digits. Why use that version of Jones to compare him against anyone? How about the 1998 Jones? Who could beat that?

CarlosG815
04-07-2011, 10:32 PM
Why do people act as if the Tarver KO occurred when Roy was 28? He was 35, 50+ fights and nearly 15 years in to his professional career. After a long, storied amateur career. He began fighting when he was still in single digits. Why use that version of Jones to compare him against anyone? How about the 1998 Jones? Who could beat that?

thank you.

Ziggy Stardust
04-07-2011, 10:43 PM
How about the 1998 Jones? Who could beat that?

Ezzard Charles. End thread.

Check_hooks
04-07-2011, 10:53 PM
Roy Jones had power WITH speed. There are two kinds of power. Thudding power like Foreman or Margarito and speed power like Pacquiao or Bruce Lee. Speed power is more dangerous because its the punch you don't see coming that hurts the most.

AKATheMack
04-07-2011, 11:28 PM
I think its safe to assume he meant at his best not at 35 years old. Some posters may have been confused.

joseph5620
04-08-2011, 12:00 AM
Why do people act as if the Tarver KO occurred when Roy was 28? He was 35, 50+ fights and nearly 15 years in to his professional career. After a long, storied amateur career. He began fighting when he was still in single digits. Why use that version of Jones to compare him against anyone? How about the 1998 Jones? Who could beat that?

Good question. Maybe because they know if they used a prime Jones they might be forced to admit he has a point.

$BloodyNate$
04-08-2011, 12:40 AM
roy jones is a fraud with a glass jaw. he always was and always will be. I called this back in his shuck and jive chicken dancing days. he shouldn't even dream about mentioning Gene Tunneys name. THAT was a real boxer with skills and technique. not some undisciplined illiterate fighter who relied on some moves and quick reflexes like a Jones, Mayweather, Ali. Leonard. If you don't study the game you'll flunk out in the end. case and point: Jones. look how all those fighters ended up when they lost the reflexes? Boy Mayweather is next.

hahahaha I think this is an obvious Earl Hickney alt or Soir.

Mayweather relying on pure speed and reflex? Ali? Obvious troll. Mayweather is probably the best defensive boxer in boxing histroy although I don't like him because of...him really.

Roy in his prime although I don't think he beats them as easy as he says it, would give ANYBODY a damn good fight in his prime. I don't think anybody beats him as easy as Tarver or Johnson just because he was old. The only problem is time. We can't see it which sucks but Roy Jones may not have the resume of a top 25 ATG but I think it's a pretty well known fact he easily had the talent of one. If only he had the quality opponents.

Holtol
04-08-2011, 01:06 AM
I never believed Roy Jones was as great as some people thought and Roy himself. I was allways frustrated by the level of his opponents while watching his career. For Roy Jones to think he would beat great boxers because he is faster I don't agree with either. He was still the faster boxer when Tarver and Johnson beat him. I think hand speed is an overated attribute because it is so obivous to see. Imo Roy Jones is overated because of his hand speed.

Vadrigar.
04-08-2011, 01:11 AM
Antonio Tarver springs to mind KO2

The move up to HW took a lot out of Roy so he was past prime and he beat Tarver the first time too.

Vadrigar.
04-08-2011, 01:23 AM
Not really on his place in History, it's just on if he thinks he could beat the great past Light Heavies and all he answers is "I'm too quick, speed".

Imo Spinks and Charles beat him out of those named, not sure on Foster.

Well, discussing how he would match up against them does in include his place in history.

I think you know that Roy didn't just have speed.

SCtrojansbaby
04-08-2011, 01:41 AM
We can't see it which sucks but Roy Jones may not have the resume of a top 25 ATG but I think it's a pretty well known fact he easily had the talent of one. If only he had the quality opponents.


That is crap, Roy had the quality opponents but people choose to ignore them because he didn't fight in the 50s or whatever.

Barn
04-08-2011, 08:25 AM
If you all agree with Roy Jones, then Meldrick Taylor should be the GOAT but, wasted it.
:nonono:

Barn
04-08-2011, 08:26 AM
hahahaha I think this is an obvious Earl Hickney alt or Soir.

Mayweather relying on pure speed and reflex? Ali? Obvious troll. Mayweather is probably the best defensive boxer in boxing histroy although I don't like him because of...him really.

Roy in his prime although I don't think he beats them as easy as he says it, would give ANYBODY a damn good fight in his prime. I don't think anybody beats him as easy as Tarver or Johnson just because he was old. The only problem is time. We can't see it which sucks but Roy Jones may not have the resume of a top 25 ATG but I think it's a pretty well known fact he easily had the talent of one. If only he had the quality opponents.
I nearly threw up when you said Mayweather is the best defensive boxer in history.

IMDAZED
04-08-2011, 09:49 AM
Ezzard Charles. End thread.

I think Charles could/would beat him as well. I can name think of five fighters at most who I think would beat him from 160-175 and that's saying a lot.

The_Demon
04-08-2011, 09:52 AM
I nearly threw up when you said Mayweather is the best defensive boxer in history.

I felt the same,quite funny how deluded some people are too be honest

CarlosG815
04-08-2011, 09:55 AM
I think Charles could/would beat him as well. I can name think of five fighters at most who I think would beat him from 160-175 and that's saying a lot.

Ezzard could not beat Roy Jones.

People's reason for hating on Jones is that he didn't fight a Eurobum like Michaelwski in his hometown, as if a fighter of that caliber could touch Roy Jones.

People will always find a guy that a fighter should have fought but with Roy they have to stretch because he did fight guys like Hopkins, Toney, Tarver, etc.. And he beat them all.

"Oh but he didn't fight the undefeated Eurobum beater"

Give me a break. Watch the film. Jones has capacity to beat anybody in the history of the game, including all the LHW's he listed and even Ray Robinson. Roy was a phenom as were all the legendary fighters. Let's not count him out.

IMDAZED
04-08-2011, 10:10 AM
Ezzard could not beat Roy Jones.

People's reason for hating on Jones is that he didn't fight a Eurobum like Michaelwski in his hometown, as if a fighter of that caliber could touch Roy Jones.

People will always find a guy that a fighter should have fought but with Roy they have to stretch because he did fight guys like Hopkins, Toney, Tarver, etc.. And he beat them all.

"Oh but he didn't fight the undefeated Eurobum beater"

Give me a break. Watch the film. Jones has capacity to beat anybody in the history of the game, including all the LHW's he listed and even Ray Robinson. Roy was a phenom as were all the legendary fighters. Let's not count him out.

Charles had the skills, strength and power to beat Jones at 175, which I don't believe was Roy's best weight.

RubenSonny
04-08-2011, 10:12 AM
Ezzard could not beat Roy Jones.

People's reason for hating on Jones is that he didn't fight a Eurobum like Michaelwski in his hometown, as if a fighter of that caliber could touch Roy Jones.

People will always find a guy that a fighter should have fought but with Roy they have to stretch because he did fight guys like Hopkins, Toney, Tarver, etc.. And he beat them all.

"Oh but he didn't fight the undefeated Eurobum beater"

Give me a break. Watch the film. Jones has capacity to beat anybody in the history of the game, including all the LHW's he listed and even Ray Robinson. Roy was a phenom as were all the legendary fighters. Let's not count him out.

Care to elaborate......

THE REED™
04-08-2011, 10:12 AM
Naming 5 fighters that could beat Roy in history.. is actually an unbelievable compliment.

RubenSonny
04-08-2011, 10:22 AM
Prime Roy has a chance against anyone, though I can't favor him against a few fighters, I made a thread about this awhile back.

Jim Jeffries
04-08-2011, 10:25 AM
Naming 5 fighters that could beat Roy in history.. is actually an unbelievable compliment.

Absolutely, especially when the emphasis is on could.

Arguments arise with some people act like Roy walks through Charles, Moore, Spinks, Moorer, Foster and more like they aren't even there.

Barn
04-08-2011, 10:29 AM
Spinks, Charles, Foster, Robinson(MW), Hagler (MW).

IronDanHamza
04-08-2011, 10:45 AM
I nearly threw up when you said Mayweather is the best defensive boxer in history.

Is it really that much of a delusional statment?

Mayweather truley has an incredible defense. One that in my opinion at the very least compares with the best.

I mean, as of right now and for many years he has been an inactive puncher and strictly defensive fighter.

I'm not going to say he has a better defnese than the likes of Whitaker, Pep or Locche. But is it really that abserd to suggest he shares a sentance with them solely in terms of defense? Not in my book.

He is one of the least hit fighters in history IMO. Yeah that has a **** load to do with his incredibly low output (atleast recently) but because of how solely defensive he is he really doesn't get hit much, at all.

Mayweather probably gets hit less than Whitaker did, that is an insane feat. Obviously again it's due to the fact Mayweather doesn't throw many punches, but that means something.

Whitaker has a better defense IMO due to the amount of punches he throws and manages to get out the way of so many. Can you imagine if Whitaker only threw 40 punchs a round? He wouldn't get hit at all either.

But I wouldn't call someone crazy for comparing them. In terms of strictly defense.

$BloodyNate$
04-08-2011, 10:56 AM
I felt the same,quite funny how deluded some people are too be honest

I nearly threw up when you said Mayweather is the best defensive boxer in history.

Are you serious?Are you really that naive because of all his out of the ring bull***** that you forgot how amazingly talented the man is? I don't like him any better then the next guy but to totally downgrade his skill level because of his attitude is pretty ignorant. The man hardly ever gets hit. And I said probably. The only man who probably has been hit less then Mayweather is Whitaker who is also the ****in man.

Is it really that much of a delusional of a statment?

Mayweather truley has an incredible defense. One that in my opinion at the very least compares with the best.

I mean, as of right now and for many years he has been an inactive puncher and strictly defensive fighter.

I'm not going to say he has a better defnese than the likes of Whitaker, Pep or Locche. But is it really that abserd to suggest he shares a sentance with them solely in terms of defense? Not in my book.

He is one of the least hit fighters in history IMO. Yeah that has a **** load to do with his incredibly low output (atleast recently) but because of how solely defensive he is he really doesn't get hit much, at all.

Mayweather probably gets hit less than Whitaker did, that is an insane feat. Obviously again it's due to the fact Mayweather doesn't throw many punches, but that means something.

Whitaker has a better defense IMO due to the amount of punches he throws and manages to get out the way of so many. Can you imagine if Whitaker only threw 40 punchs a round? He wouldn't get hit at all either.

But I wouldn't call someone crazy for comparing them. In terms of strictly defense.

****in thank you. I don't think the hatred for Floyd should effect how incredibly talented the man is. There is a reason people want to see him fight Pac.

Barn
04-08-2011, 11:12 AM
Are you serious?Are you really that naive because of all his out of the ring bull***** that you forgot how amazingly talented the man is? I don't like him any better then the next guy but to totally downgrade his skill level because of his attitude is pretty ignorant. The man hardly ever gets hit. And I said probably. The only man who probably has been hit less then Mayweather is Whitaker who is also the ****in man.



****in thank you. I don't think the hatred for Floyd should effect how incredibly talented the man is. There is a reason people want to see him fight Pac.
Locche And Whitaker > Mayweather.

Just how I see it and I see it pretty clearly.

Ziggy Stardust
04-08-2011, 12:54 PM
I think Charles could/would beat him as well. I can name think of five fighters at most who I think would beat him from 160-175 and that's saying a lot.

Exactly. Jones was a terrific fighter and I caught heat for rating him #15 all-time p4p. I have Charles in my top-5 p4p. As terrific a fighter as Jones was, Charles is one of the absolute finest fighters I've ever seen (on film of course) and Light-Heavy was where he was at his best. I might be able to come up with more than five Light-Heavies that beat Jones but that's no easy feat and I'd have to think on that awhile. Middleweight, eh not a good comparison since Jones wasn't there very long and was very green. Once his body matured into his prime years I don't think he'd have been able to get back down to Middleweight without seriously draining himself.

Poet

crold1
04-08-2011, 12:57 PM
Exactly. Jones was a terrific fighter and I caught heat for rating him #15 all-time p4p. I have Charles in my top-5 p4p. As terrific a fighter as Jones was, Charles is one of the absolute finest fighters I've ever seen (on film of course) and Light-Heavy was where he was at his best. I might be able to come up with more than five Light-Heavies that beat Jones but that's no easy feat and I'd have to think on that awhile. Middleweight, eh not a good comparison since Jones wasn't there very long and was very green. Once his body matured into his prime years I don't think he'd have been able to get back down to Middleweight without seriously draining himself.

Poet

Jones is as overrated at Middleweight (sometimes) as he is underrated at Light Heavyweight (most of the time). He outgrew Middle way early and was considering moving up as early as late 92/93. The IBF came open and he stayed, defending exactly once. Jones, in 93, is not a wise pick against the greatest seasoned middles of all-time.

IMDAZED
04-08-2011, 01:17 PM
Exactly. Jones was a terrific fighter and I caught heat for rating him #15 all-time p4p. I have Charles in my top-5 p4p. As terrific a fighter as Jones was, Charles is one of the absolute finest fighters I've ever seen (on film of course) and Light-Heavy was where he was at his best. I might be able to come up with more than five Light-Heavies that beat Jones but that's no easy feat and I'd have to think on that awhile. Middleweight, eh not a good comparison since Jones wasn't there very long and was very green. Once his body matured into his prime years I don't think he'd have been able to get back down to Middleweight without seriously draining himself.

Poet

Hagler definitely beats Roy at 160. Monzon too IMO. Way too much savvy for that young boy.

THE REED™
04-08-2011, 01:23 PM
The fact that we have to think hard of a list comprised of less than 10 fighters in history that definitely beat Roy... I think is awesome.

Barn
04-08-2011, 01:45 PM
The fact that we have to think hard of a list comprised of less than 10 fighters in history that definitely beat Roy... I think is awesome.
Roy Jones H2H ability is amazing, his resume sadly isn't.

THE REED™
04-08-2011, 01:47 PM
Roy Jones H2H ability is amazing, his resume sadly isn't.

Resume amazing? Probably not AMAZING... but it's damn good.

Ziggy Stardust
04-08-2011, 01:56 PM
Hagler definitely beats Roy at 160. Monzon too IMO. Way too much savvy for that young boy.

Yeah, Jones was just too inexperienced at 160 and hadn't matured physically yet either. I think most if not all the Middleweight greats beat him at that stage of his career (not easily though), most of whom I'd favor a prime Jones over assuming had been prime at 160.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
04-08-2011, 02:03 PM
The fact that we have to think hard of a list comprised of less than 10 fighters in history that definitely beat Roy... I think is awesome.

Jones was an awesome fighter afterall. Look, I think pretty much everyone in this thread agrees (except for the racist turd earlier) Jones was a legitimate top-tier great ie. one of the VERY best fighters in the history of the sport something only a select few can claim. The only real question here is where does he rank AMONG those select few. The only thing most of us would really dispute was that Jones was the GOAT p4p or in any given weight class. If you prefix "GOAT" with "one of the" then I think we pretty much all agree.

Poet

THE REED™
04-08-2011, 02:05 PM
Jones was an awesome fighter afterall. Look, I think pretty much everyone in this thread agrees (except for the racist turd earlier) Jones was a legitimate top-tier great ie. one of the VERY best fighters in the history of the sport something only a select few can claim. The only real question here is where does he rank AMONG those select few. The only thing most of us would really dispute was that Jones was the GOAT p4p or in any given weight class. If you prefix "GOAT" with "one of the" then I think we pretty much all agree.

Poet

Yeah I agree.... I think at SMW he beats anyone... but doesn't have the best resume to be the goat at SMW.

Ziggy Stardust
04-08-2011, 02:14 PM
Yeah I agree.... I think at SMW he beats anyone... but doesn't have the best resume to be the goat at SMW.

Then again, being "old-school 8" I don't recognize SMW as being legit so they all get counted as Light-Heavies :geek9:

Poet

THE REED™
04-08-2011, 02:15 PM
Then again, being "old-school 8" I don't recognize SMW as being legit so they all get counted as Light-Heavies :geek9:

Poet

Fair enough.........

Ziggy Stardust
04-08-2011, 02:24 PM
Fair enough.........

Interestingly enough I'd favor Jones over Bob Foster; though if Foster lands a bomb.....Michael Spinks is one I have a sneaking suspicion would beat Jones though I can't really put my finger on why. Probably a case where since the talent level is pretty damn close (yes Spinks WAS that talented.....at Light-Heavy) Spinks just matches up well with Roy.

Poet

THE REED™
04-08-2011, 02:29 PM
I do notice most of the people favored over Roy, more or less just have the punchers chance..

It all seemingly comes down to having to knock Roy out...

Are any of these ATG LHW's out boxing Roy over 12 rounds?

Ziggy Stardust
04-08-2011, 02:34 PM
I do notice most of the people favored over Roy, more or less just have the punchers chance..

It all seemingly comes down to having to knock Roy out...

Are any of these ATG LHW's out boxing Roy over 12 rounds?

I would favor Charles to do so.....maybe Gene Tunney though I think that's a 50/50 fight. Archie Moore I would favor by KO not points. Billy Conn could match Jones for speed but I don't see Conn being able to hurt Roy so I would favor Jones to beat him. The same with Maxie Rosenbloom. Tommy Gibbons maybe? There again, that's another matchup where I favor Jones. So Charles, who I think WOULD outpoint Roy; and Tunney who I think COULD outpoint Roy. That's about it.

Poet

THE REED™
04-08-2011, 02:37 PM
I would favor Charles to do so.....maybe Gene Tunney though I think that's a 50/50 fight. Archie Moore I would favor by KO not points. Billy Conn could match Jones for speed but I don't see Conn being able to hurt Roy so I would favor Jones to beat him. The same with Maxie Rosenbloom. Tommy Gibbons maybe? There again, that's another matchup where I favor Jones. So Charles, who I think WOULD outpoint Roy; and Tunney who I think COULD outpoint Roy. That's about it.

Poet

On Billy Conn... definitely fast hands... but Roy didnt just have the hands, the footspeed and lateral movement were also on another level... you think Conn could match speed on all levels?

Ziggy Stardust
04-08-2011, 02:47 PM
On Billy Conn... definitely fast hands... but Roy didnt just have the hands, the footspeed and lateral movement were also on another level... you think Conn could match speed on all levels?

I think he did. People claim Joe Louis was slow-footed but truth is he was a master at cutting off the ring (better than a prime Foreman even) and Conn gave him fits with his footspeed. Conn was really a puffed up Middleweight who brought his speed up with him.

Here again though, I don't think Conn even with his fast hands could tag Jones cleanly enough times to hurt him and that's really what that matchup boils down to: Jones had enough power to hurt Conn with one shot and didn't need to string punches together to do it. Conn was no puncher and had to put his punches together to hurt an opponent. In a matchup between two incredibly fast fighters who are extremely hard to hit clean shots landed are hard to come by so I have to favor the guy who can do the most with the least and that's Jones.

Poet

THE REED™
04-08-2011, 02:51 PM
I think he did. People claim Joe Louis was slow-footed but truth is he was a master at cutting off the ring (better than a prime Foreman even) and Conn gave him fits with his footspeed. Conn was really a puffed up Middleweight who brought his speed up with him.

Here again though, I don't think Conn even with his fast hands could tag Jones cleanly enough times to hurt him and that's really what that matchup boils down to: Jones had enough power to hurt Conn with one shot and didn't need to string punches together to do it. Conn was no puncher and had to put his punches together to hurt an opponent. In a matchup between two incredibly fast fighters who are extremely hard to hit clean shots landed are hard to come by so I have to favor the guy who can do the most with the least and that's Jones.

Poet

Damn, good post and informative... thanks.

By the way where's Jab?

mikeyh1015
04-08-2011, 02:51 PM
Damn... Who could beat ROY? lol, No slow ass, no Technique havn, slow handed old school fighter could have, I know that.

Ziggy Stardust
04-08-2011, 02:52 PM
Damn, good post and informative... thanks.

By the way where's Jab?

On vacation I think :thinking9:

Ziggy Stardust
04-08-2011, 02:54 PM
Damn... Who could beat ROY? lol, No slow ass, no Technique havn, slow handed old school fighter could have, I know that.

Ok Junior: The adults are talking in here now so off to your play-pen. Call us when you hit puberty.

Poet

THE REED™
04-08-2011, 03:02 PM
What about Michael Moorer and Spinks..

Ziggy Stardust
04-08-2011, 03:15 PM
What about Michael Moorer and Spinks..

I'd go with Spinks. Moorer showed enough at Light-Heavy to know he was very good there.....the problem is his opposition was too weak to really know just HOW good. Spinks on the other hand was undefeated against quite possibly the best era in division history. Too many people only remember Spinks as "that dude that got sparked in 81 seconds". Well, that was at Heavyweight were Spinks simply wasn't that good (even his trainer the great Eddie Futch said he wasn't). At Light-Heavy he was a beast and that's what gets forgotten. Then again too many people seem to think that Heavyweight is the only division that counts :rolleyes9:

Poet

joseph5620
04-08-2011, 04:04 PM
Interestingly enough I'd favor Jones over Bob Foster; though if Foster lands a bomb.....Michael Spinks is one I have a sneaking suspicion would beat Jones though I can't really put my finger on why. Probably a case where since the talent level is pretty damn close (yes Spinks WAS that talented.....at Light-Heavy) Spinks just matches up well with Roy.

Poet




I think Spinks style would pose major problems for Jones. Spinks was difficult to hit cleanly and that could take Jones out of his rhythm. Spinks also had the power to take Jones out. I would pick Spinks in that fight. I wouldn't pick Jones over Foster either. That Foster jab/reach could be a nightmare for Jones. That as well as Foster's scary power.

Ziggy Stardust
04-08-2011, 04:11 PM
I think Spinks style would pose major problems for Jones. Spinks was difficult to hit cleanly and that could take Jones out of his rhythm. Spinks also had the power to take Jones out. I would pick Spinks in that fight. I wouldn't pick Jones over Foster either. That Foster jab/reach could be a nightmare for Jones. That as well as Foster's scary power.

Sure, if Foster could land one of his big shots cleanly then it's lights out for Jones. But could he though? I have a hard time seeing Foster land anything other than the jab cleanly and he's not taking Roy out with a jab. Foster had monster power but wasn't that quick or fluid with his power shots which I think he'd have to be to land them cleanly on someone as fast as Roy.

Poet

joseph5620
04-08-2011, 04:15 PM
Sure, if Foster could land one of his big shots cleanly then it's lights out for Jones. But could he though? I have a hard time seeing Foster land anything other than the jab cleanly and he's not taking Roy out with a jab. Foster had monster power but wasn't that quick or fluid with his power shots which I think he'd have to be to land them cleanly on someone as fast as Roy.

Poet

That's possible. I think Jones is capable of beating any of them. But if money is involved I would probably still go with Foster :lol1:

IMDAZED
04-08-2011, 08:13 PM
I'd go with Spinks. Moorer showed enough at Light-Heavy to know he was very good there.....the problem is his opposition was too weak to really know just HOW good. Spinks on the other hand was undefeated against quite possibly the best era in division history. Too many people only remember Spinks as "that dude that got sparked in 81 seconds". Well, that was at Heavyweight were Spinks simply wasn't that good (even his trainer the great Eddie Futch said he wasn't). At Light-Heavy he was a beast and that's what gets forgotten. Then again too many people seem to think that Heavyweight is the only division that counts :rolleyes9:

Poet

I love Roy but Spinks would've got him. He was unorthodox in his own way and would've kept Roy on the end of his punches. That right hand would land behind the jab at some point or another. A prime Roy always had a solid chin and, when pressed, proved resilient. He might've survived the Spinks Jinx but his hand wouldn't be raised at the end of the day. I see Spinks making an already defensive-minded Roy even more wary, en route to a comfortable UD.

Roy would take Moorer into deep waters and drown him IMO.

joseph5620
04-08-2011, 08:43 PM
I love Roy but Spinks would've got him. He was unorthodox in his own way and would've kept Roy on the end of his punches. That right hand would land behind the jab at some point or another. A prime Roy always had a solid chin and, when pressed, proved resilient. He might've survived the Spinks Jinx but his hand wouldn't be raised at the end of the day. I see Spinks making an already defensive-minded Roy even more wary, en route to a comfortable UD.

Roy would take Moorer into deep waters and drown him IMO.

I agree. I think Moorer is overrated at 175. He never beat anybody significant at that weight and Jones is the more proven fighter at 175. I think he would pick Moorer apart at that weight.

Brockton Lip
04-08-2011, 10:30 PM
I'd favor Spinks, Charles, Moorer, Archie Moore, and Qawi over him. Tunney and Foster are 50/50 although maybe Tunney should be favored as well.

Scott9945
04-08-2011, 11:47 PM
[/u]

I agree. I think Moorer is overrated at 175. He never beat anybody significant at that weight and Jones is the more proven fighter at 175. I think he would pick Moorer apart at that weight.


I agree. The best guy that Moorer ever beat at 175 wasn't even good enough to even spar with Roy Jones. You can't even begin to compare Moorer to Spinks at 175.

SCtrojansbaby
04-09-2011, 01:00 PM
We aren't talking about resumes, its about matchups.

Wild Blue Yonda
04-09-2011, 07:37 PM
I agree. The best guy that Moorer ever beat at 175 wasn't even good enough to even spar with Roy Jones. You can't even begin to compare Moorer to Spinks at 175.

That's true about Moorer's competition, but I believe he could & quite possibly would end Jones' night at some point in a LHW battle. Jones had lost some power &,more significantly, his inclination to really hurt his rivals once he left SMW, & I feel you need to hurt any fighter rightly described as a beast, as the hungry, young Moorer was. To me, it comes down to what you like --- Jones' speed & experience, or Moorer's power & ring presence.

Those are the types of guys Jones is in the discussion with historically though (at 175), not the likes of Tunney, Moore, Charles,& the absolute elite.

Scott9945
04-09-2011, 08:34 PM
That's true about Moorer's competition, but I believe he could & quite possibly would end Jones' night at some point in a LHW battle. Jones had lost some power &,more significantly, his inclination to really hurt his rivals once he left SMW, & I feel you need to hurt any fighter rightly described as a beast, as the hungry, young Moorer was. To me, it comes down to what you like --- Jones' speed & experience, or Moorer's power & ring presence.

Those are the types of guys Jones is in the discussion with historically though (at 175), not the likes of Tunney, Moore, Charles,& the absolute elite.

I would immediately agree that Moorer had the power to turn out Roy's lights at 175. But I just see him at a level below at that weight. Moorer was very aggressive at 175, but he may have been considerably more passive if he got hit flush with some of Jones' lighting fast combinations.

joseph5620
04-09-2011, 08:51 PM
I would immediately agree that Moorer had the power to turn out Roy's lights at 175. But I just see him at a level below at that weight. Moorer was very aggressive at 175, but he may have been considerably more passive if he got hit flush with some of Jones' lighting fast combinations.

That's what happened with Reggie Johnson.

Scott9945
04-09-2011, 08:59 PM
That's what happened with Reggie Johnson.

That also happens to many of Pacquiao's opponents. They just are overwhelmed by his speed. You can hire fighters to duplicate styles, but you'll never find a sparring partner who can prepare for that speed.

joseph5620
04-09-2011, 09:04 PM
That also happens to many of Pacquiao's opponents. They just are overwhelmed by his speed. You can hire fighters to duplicate styles, but you'll never find a sparring partner who can prepare for that speed.

Mosley is going to have to deal with that. He already went through it with Mayweather and the results were not good.

crold1
04-09-2011, 09:11 PM
That's what happened with Reggie Johnson.

Comparing Johnson to Moorer? Seen much Moorer? He could be dull when bored but motivated was a killer. Moorer was never one to shy from a fight even if, as a fat heavy, he could sometimes get sleepy with the jab. Moorer, when hurt or tagged, was always one to fire back. If Jones got off some combos, a fight would break out. Moorer was considerably bigger, taller, and could punch through a wall. And he was fast enough. He was good enough to jump two classes, with a tire, and compete with many of the best of one of the greatest Heavyweight generations ever. Shot and past it, he won a war with a younger Jirov.

Moorer would knock Jones into the middle of hell.

Jones might have been greater in a ratings sense, but Moorer was the sort of big, nasty Light Heavyweight that didn't exist in Jones's era. Folks forget that part of Moorer moving up is NO ONE at 175 (mainly Williams and Hill then) would sniff in his direction.

Jones would give Moorer the sort of affirming opponent he couldn't get at the weight.

Ziggy Stardust
04-09-2011, 09:22 PM
Moorer would knock Jones into the middle of hell.

And we know this because of which high-quality Light-Heavy Moorer beat? Point is, how exactly can you judge how good a fighter is when they didn't fight anyone of note? Lots of fighters look phenominal against the Sisters of the Poor then come apart when they move up in class. Moorer didn't exactly have a sturdy chin either and Jones wasn't lacking in power.

Poet

crold1
04-09-2011, 09:30 PM
And we know this because of which high-quality Light-Heavy Moorer beat? Point is, how exactly can you judge how good a fighter is when they didn't fight anyone of note? Lots of fighters look phenominal against the Sisters of the Poor then come apart when they move up in class. Moorer didn't exactly have a sturdy chin either and Jones wasn't lacking in power.

Poet

Moorer's chin struggled against some big punchers at Heavyweight. Stewart, Holyfield, Tua, Cooper, Foreman...all had serious power of a sort Jones wouldn't muster. Moorer took a lot of good Heavy shots. I realize his Light Heavy dossier wasn't great but we know what kind of fighter he was in general. He's not an unknown commodity and he at least beat some solid guys at 75 (hell, Swindell and Stewart were on par with more than a few Jones challengers). I'd bet, based on having seen what it took to knock both guys out, that Moorer takes Jones shot a hell of a lot better than the opposite. Throw in a reach advantage, about four-five inches in height (Jones is really only about 5'10, Moorer 6'2 and change), and bombs in his hands, I stand by my take.

I mean the question can go back...we KNOW Moorer could punch and had a HIGH degree of skill to go with. What high quality KO artist did Jones ever beat? Who ever hit Roy with the sort of shot Moorer could to make anyone think Jones c ould take the blow?

Scott9945
04-09-2011, 09:38 PM
And we know this because of which high-quality Light-Heavy Moorer beat? Point is, how exactly can you judge how good a fighter is when they didn't fight anyone of note? Lots of fighters look phenominal against the Sisters of the Poor then come apart when they move up in class. Moorer didn't exactly have a sturdy chin either and Jones wasn't lacking in power.

Poet

The best lightheavy Moorer ever fought was Leslie Stewart, who had already been KO'd in his two previous title fights. Frankie Swindell had Moorer badly hurt. We just saw with David Lemioux how dramatic a step up in class can be for a killer puncher.

Ziggy Stardust
04-09-2011, 09:43 PM
Moorer's chin struggled against some big punchers at Heavyweight. Stewart, Holyfield, Tua, Cooper, Foreman...all had serious power of a sort Jones wouldn't muster. Moorer took a lot of good Heavy shots. I realize his Light Heavy dossier wasn't great but we know what kind of fighter he was in general. He's not an unknown commodity and he at least beat some solid guys at 75 (hell, Swindell and Stewart were on par with more than a few Jones challengers). I'd bet, based on having seen what it took to knock both guys out, that Moorer takes Jones shot a hell of a lot better than the opposite. Throw in a reach advantage, about four-five inches in height (Jones is really only about 5'10, Moorer 6'2 and change), and bombs in his hands, I stand by my take.

I mean the question can go back...we KNOW Moorer could punch and had a HIGH degree of skill to go with. What high quality KO artist did Jones ever beat? Who ever hit Roy with the sort of shot Moorer could to make anyone think Jones c ould take the blow?

The eyeball test only tells you so much: Who a fighter is doing it against has to be considered.....Especially when you're talking about matching him against a proven commodity like Jones. I wouldn't exactly consider Holyfield a big puncher either: A decent puncher sure, but a big hitter? Same with Cooper. Stewart's power is grossly overrated but that's food for another thread. Could Moorer take the shot that fractured Virgil Hill's vertabrae? Could he take the left hook that starched Montell Griffin? I'm inclined to doubt it.

Poet

joseph5620
04-09-2011, 09:44 PM
Moorer's chin struggled against some big punchers at Heavyweight. Stewart, Holyfield, Tua, Cooper, Foreman...all had serious power of a sort Jones wouldn't muster. Moorer took a lot of good Heavy shots. I realize his Light Heavy dossier wasn't great but we know what kind of fighter he was in general. He's not an unknown commodity and he at least beat some solid guys at 75 (hell, Swindell and Stewart were on par with more than a few Jones challengers). I'd bet, based on having seen what it took to knock both guys out, that Moorer takes Jones shot a hell of a lot better than the opposite. Throw in a reach advantage, about four-five inches in height (Jones is really only about 5'10, Moorer 6'2 and change), and bombs in his hands, I stand by my take.

I mean the question can go back...we KNOW Moorer could punch and had a HIGH degree of skill to go with. What high quality KO artist did Jones ever beat? Who ever hit Roy with the sort of shot Moorer could to make anyone think Jones c ould take the blow?

You would a have a hard time finding even one of Jones title challengers on par with Swindell. And Stewart was beyond shot when Moorer beat him. But if those are the best Moorer has to offer at 175 that's pretty pathetic when comparing him to Jones at that weight.

crold1
04-09-2011, 09:45 PM
You would a have a hard time finding even one of Jones title challengers on par with Swindell.

Ricky Frazier.

I win.

;)

I'd also throw in Harmon, Gonzalez, Grant (coming up from Middle), and Kelly as on par with Swindell. Swindell versus any is a tough fight. and he beats Frazier.

crold1
04-09-2011, 09:49 PM
The eyeball test only tells you so much: Who a fighter is doing it against has to be considered.....Especially when you're talking about matching him against a proven commodity like Jones. I wouldn't exactly consider Holyfield a big puncher either: A decent puncher sure, but a big hitter? Same with Cooper. Stewart's power is grossly overrated but that's food for another thread. Could Moorer take the shot that fractured Virgil Hill's vertabrae? Could he take the left hook that starched Montell Griffin? I'm inclined to doubt it.

Poet

Could Jones take the sort of shots Griffin landed, with relative ease, against Jones in the first fight? Jones would be Glenn'd. I saw enough about what Moorer was as a fighter at Heavyweight to feel safe guessing what he'd do, in shape and fully motivated as he'd be for that caliber foe, at 175. And Holyfield was a much bigger puncher, at Heavy, than Jones was at Light Heavy.

joseph5620
04-09-2011, 09:49 PM
The eyeball test only tells you so much: Who a fighter is doing it against has to be considered.....Especially when you're talking about matching him against a proven commodity like Jones. I wouldn't exactly consider Holyfield a big puncher either: A decent puncher sure, but a big hitter? Same with Cooper. Stewart's power is grossly overrated but that's food for another thread. Could Moorer take the shot that fractured Virgil Hill's vertabrae? Could he take the left hook that starched Montell Griffin? I'm inclined to doubt it.

Poet

I've always believed that too.

joseph5620
04-09-2011, 09:51 PM
Ricky Frazier.

I win.

;)

I'd also throw in Harmon, Gonzalez, Grant (coming up from Middle), and Kelly as on par with Swindell. Swindell versus any is a tough fight. and he beats Frazier.

No possible way is Swindell on par with any of those fighters. Maybe you would like to explain how?

Ziggy Stardust
04-09-2011, 09:57 PM
I've always believed that too.

Who exactly did he KO anyway? David Jaco and Conroy Nelson? :hahahaha9:

crold1
04-09-2011, 09:57 PM
No possible way is Swindell on par with any of those fighters. Maybe you would like to explain how?

I think he's competitive (pick em) on a good day with any of them. I am probably underselling Gonzalez of that crew; he was a warrior who could sneak up. I don't think too highly of most of the rank and file at 175 between the Spinks era and right now (I think the division has been on an uptick in the last five years or so).

And, hey, Frazier is the gift that keeps on giving. :)

Steak
04-09-2011, 09:57 PM
Moorer fought nobodies at LHW. But based on his performances at HW, I think its pretty fair to say that he would have given Roy hell.

Ziggy Stardust
04-09-2011, 10:02 PM
Could Jones take the sort of shots Griffin landed, with relative ease, against Jones in the first fight? Jones would be Glenn'd. I saw enough about what Moorer was as a fighter at Heavyweight to feel safe guessing what he'd do, in shape and fully motivated as he'd be for that caliber foe, at 175. And Holyfield was a much bigger puncher, at Heavy, than Jones was at Light Heavy.

And I certainly saw enough of Moorer to know that while good, he wasn't in Jones' class as a fighter. I'm also sure if a limited journeyman like Cooper could come within a hair's breath of starching Moorer.....

Poet

fight_professor
04-25-2011, 06:31 PM
I was re-watching some prime RJJ today. TBH, I am not sure anyone could beat a prime RJJ. Damn, he was so fast and skillful.

Forza
04-25-2011, 07:15 PM
The HBO bum blaster doesn't even crack my top 15 LHW's. Couldn't hold the great ezzard charles' jock strap.

fight_professor
04-25-2011, 07:29 PM
Then again, being "old-school 8" I don't recognize SMW as being legit so they all get counted as Light-Heavies :geek9:

Poet

This I agree with. I am a classic 8 weight guy until I die. :dance:

House of Stone
04-26-2011, 08:02 AM
Roy at his best was unbelievable. Problem is he didn't make what could have been some defining fights happen. A Hopkins rematch just before moving up to super middle - Eubank/Collins before moving up to light heavy - Darius M at Light Heavy and then Calzaghe one fight before he moved up to heavy for the Ruiz fight. He could have made all these fights happen and would have beaten them all (his toughest test being the hopkins rematch IMO) and could then have retired after the Ruiz fight and have gone down as one of the greatest ever. Unfortunately he waited until he was shot to start fighting the Calzaghe's/Hopkins's etc. And don't bother going on about that tarver ko 2 or glen johnson etc - the Roy that came back down from heavy was not the same guy ... he was done.

IMDAZED
04-27-2011, 07:14 PM
Roy at his best was unbelievable. Problem is he didn't make what could have been some defining fights happen. A Hopkins rematch just before moving up to super middle - Eubank/Collins before moving up to light heavy - Darius M at Light Heavy and then Calzaghe one fight before he moved up to heavy for the Ruiz fight. He could have made all these fights happen and would have beaten them all (his toughest test being the hopkins rematch IMO) and could then have retired after the Ruiz fight and have gone down as one of the greatest ever. Unfortunately he waited until he was shot to start fighting the Calzaghe's/Hopkins's etc. And don't bother going on about that tarver ko 2 or glen johnson etc - the Roy that came back down from heavy was not the same guy ... he was done.

Huh? Tell the truth...you weren't following the sport during most of the periods you mentioned.

SCtrojansbaby
04-28-2011, 04:48 PM
They couldn't figure out the $ for a B-Hop rematch and none of the european fights were realistic

MasterODisaster
04-30-2011, 08:50 PM
...that people talk about James Toney as being a great fighter in his prime, and a guy who could be a great fighter in any era, yet RJJ at his best is considered to be beatable because he lost when he was clearly on the downslide.

As I recall, RJJ absolutely dominated a prime and in shape James Toney, and also beat Hopkins as well when Roy was not washed up.

How soon people forget how great he truly was by so many just because they see the washed up version of RJJ. That's like me basing my opinions on the shell of what was SRR based on his last few years as a fighter!

To talk about the RJJ that was beaten by Tarver and the RJJ since then is disgusting and stupid if you are talking about the best version of RJJ and how he'd stack up against the best of past era's IMO! As I said previously, we can do the same damned thing with SRR and others that fought on longer than they should have, but most of us are smarter than that, and it makes me think how many of these people are just not happy because in their eyes he didn't make the number of big fights they wanted him to.

NChristo
05-01-2011, 03:25 AM
As I recall, RJJ absolutely dominated a prime and in shape James Toney, and also beat Hopkins as well when Roy was not washed up.


RJJ dominated a weight drained Toney who went into training camp at 214 pounds confident that he could still make 168 with only 6 weeks until the fight, after the weigh in he even had to be hooked up on I.V to replace fluids, but you think he was in shape ?.

RJJ would of beat him anyway, but Toney was far from in shape, it's easy to tell just by looking at him

Vadrigar.
05-01-2011, 05:06 AM
RJJ dominated a weight drained Toney who went into training camp at 214 pounds confident that he could still make 168 with only 6 weeks until the fight, after the weigh in he even had to be hooked up on I.V to replace fluids, but you think he was in shape ?.

RJJ would of beat him anyway, but Toney was far from in shape, it's easy to tell just by looking at him

Already been debunked here:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195626&highlight=james+toney+weight+drained

AmericanEuro
05-01-2011, 06:39 AM
Not a very high place in history.

SCtrojansbaby
05-01-2011, 11:14 AM
The problem for Roy wasn't really losing the weight, it was losing the weight at 35 years old.

NChristo
05-01-2011, 01:20 PM
Already been debunked here:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195626&highlight=james+toney+weight+drained

So where was it debunked ?, no one denied that he was weight drained in the thread all they said was that he's had weight issues his whole and it's no excuse as too why he lost which it's not since it was his responsibility and he agreed to 168.

Vadrigar.
05-01-2011, 01:21 PM
So where was it debunked ?, no one denied that he was weight drained in the thread all they said was that he's had weight issues his whole and it's no excuse as too why he lost which it's not since it was his responsibility and he agreed to 168.

It has been debunked as shown in those posts because Toney was like that all the time. I got the impression you were singling out his fight with Jones, without looking at the context of his whole career.

BigStereotype
05-01-2011, 01:37 PM
Not a very high place in history.

Could you define "not very high?" If you mean not top five LHW, that's debatable. But if you mean "Not an ATG"...not so sure about that.

Toney616
05-02-2011, 12:17 PM
They couldn't figure out the $ for a B-Hop rematch
Hopkins wanted 50-50, Jones wanted 60-40 in his favor

and none of the european fights were realistic
How did you come to this conclusion?

Ziggy Stardust
05-02-2011, 12:19 PM
How did you come to this conclusion?

Because no one would want to broadcast Jones Vs a minor-leaguer.

Poet

Toney616
05-02-2011, 12:23 PM
It has been debunked as shown in those posts because Toney was like that all the time.
Thats not true. He was definitely in shape for the Nunn, McCallum, McCallum II and the Reggie Johnson fights. It was after the Barkley fight that he really started to get lazy. Any time a boxer fluctuates that much from the day of the weigh in to the day of the fight something has definitively gone wrong.
His days at smw were finished when he couldnt even make the weight for a non title bout at cw against Vinsom Durham
It doesn't matter anyway seeing as how it was his responsibility to come in shape anyway.

Toney616
05-02-2011, 12:24 PM
Because no one would want to broadcast Jones Vs a minor-leaguer.

Poet
There wasnt much interest for Jones-Collins. I think Benn-Jones would of been big news

Ziggy Stardust
05-02-2011, 12:28 PM
There wasnt much interest for Jones-Collins. I think Benn-Jones would of been big news

Against Benn sure.....the problem is the Euro names that get tossed about as Jones opponents are jokes like Dariusz Michalczewski and Sven Ottke.

Poet

Toney616
05-02-2011, 12:31 PM
Against Benn sure.....the problem is the Euro names that get tossed about as Jones opponents are jokes like Dariusz Michalczewski and Sven Ottke.

Poet
Dariusz Michalczewski:
Dont really know much about this guy. I cant really bring myself to watch any of his fights after the award winning acting lesson against Graciano.

Sven Ottke:
Ottke beats any fighter in the world.... if the fight takes place in Germany:dead1:

Ziggy Stardust
05-02-2011, 12:35 PM
Dariusz Michalczewski:
Dont really know much about this guy. I cant really bring myself to watch any of his fights after the award winning acting lesson against Graciano.

Sven Ottke:
Ottke beats any fighter in the world.... if the fight takes place in Germany:dead1:

Michalczewski IS pretty unwatchable :chuckle9: Ottke, well, lets just say there's a REASON why he didn't fight outside of Deutschland :cool9:

Poet

Toney616
05-02-2011, 12:38 PM
Michalczewski IS pretty unwatchable :chuckle9: Ottke, well, lets just say there's a REASON why he didn't fight outside of Deutschland :cool9:

Poet
I watched Ottke-Reid, disgraceful. Reid got a warning for hitting Ottke in the face:dead1:

JAB5239
05-02-2011, 03:51 PM
Against Benn sure.....the problem is the Euro names that get tossed about as Jones opponents are jokes like Dariusz Michalczewski and Sven Ottke.

Poet

Michalczewski beat some solid names at 175 and a fight with Jones would have been big back in 1999, 2000. I don't think he would have beaten Roy, but it was a fight that would have generated interest.

Ziggy Stardust
05-02-2011, 04:09 PM
Michalczewski beat some solid names at 175

You mean a well past it Virgil Hill and the previously exposed Montell Griffin? Other than that his resume's a "who's who" of "who the fvck is THAT?"

Poet

JAB5239
05-02-2011, 05:17 PM
You mean a well past it Virgil Hill and the previously exposed Montell Griffin? Other than that his resume's a "who's who" of "who the fvck is THAT?"

Poet

Hill had just beaten a very good Henry Maske in his last fight and would twice after win a piece of the cruiser weight title. All Im saying though is that at the time a Jones-Michalczewski fight would have made sense and would of sold.

The Surgeon
05-02-2011, 05:40 PM
Hill had just beaten a very good Henry Maske in his last fight and would twice after win a piece of the cruiser weight title. All Im saying though is that at the time a Jones-Michalczewski fight would have made sense and would of sold.

That fight made sense, any fool lookin at magazine rankings could see that when the number 1 guy has only a single loss on DQ that got avenged and the number 2 guy is undefeated with around the same fights. It was a natural. From what i remember it was more Michalczewski's fault than Jones' tho wasnt it? I mean why should Roy leave the states, he was Da Man after all

Im with poet tho DM was a whatever fighter and Roy would have took him to school. The dude would have had a PHD in Pain by the time Jones was done with him

Scott9945
05-02-2011, 06:26 PM
Michalczewski beat some solid names at 175 and a fight with Jones would have been big back in 1999, 2000. I don't think he would have beaten Roy, but it was a fight that would have generated interest.

The major problem was that it was a huge fight in Germany, but just another fight in the US. Roy was inflexible about fighting outside of the US then. That tells you how desperate he must be now taking fights in Australia and Russia.

Make no mistake about it, in his prime Michalczewski was better than most of Roy's opposition at 175.

JAB5239
05-02-2011, 08:44 PM
The major problem was that it was a huge fight in Germany, but just another fight in the US. Roy was inflexible about fighting outside of the US then. That tells you how desperate he must be now taking fights in Australia and Russia.

Make no mistake about it, in his prime Michalczewski was better than most of Roy's opposition at 175.


Agreed. His dominance over common opponents Harmon, Hall and Griffin reaffirm that statement.

The_Demon
05-03-2011, 03:32 PM
That fight made sense, any fool lookin at magazine rankings could see that when the number 1 guy has only a single loss on DQ that got avenged and the number 2 guy is undefeated with around the same fights. It was a natural. From what i remember it was more Michalczewski's fault than Jones' tho wasnt it? I mean why should Roy leave the states, he was Da Man after all

Im with poet tho DM was a whatever fighter and Roy would have took him to school. The dude would have had a PHD in Pain by the time Jones was done with him

Glanced at your avatar and for a split second i thought Arreola had sufferend some drastic weight loss and was looking rather pasty as a result :lol1:,Tapia is a legend though

studentofthegam
05-03-2011, 07:00 PM
Considering his defeat at the hands of johnson and Tarver at LHW I think he's over stepping his boundaries and overrating his speed. Maybe he should talk strictly about SMW. Charles definitely beats that version of Roy (Tarver, Johnson).

House of Stone
05-04-2011, 03:17 AM
...that people talk about James Toney as being a great fighter in his prime, and a guy who could be a great fighter in any era, yet RJJ at his best is considered to be beatable because he lost when he was clearly on the downslide.

As I recall, RJJ absolutely dominated a prime and in shape James Toney, and also beat Hopkins as well when Roy was not washed up.

How soon people forget how great he truly was by so many just because they see the washed up version of RJJ. That's like me basing my opinions on the shell of what was SRR based on his last few years as a fighter!

To talk about the RJJ that was beaten by Tarver and the RJJ since then is disgusting and stupid if you are talking about the best version of RJJ and how he'd stack up against the best of past era's IMO! .

yup the jones that fought toney would be a bloody tough match up for any middle to light heavy great of any period end of story. The people who insist on bringing up tarver and johnson are retards, why not bring up ali's losses to holmes or berbeck as evidence that prime ali was not that good after all?

RAV3N
05-04-2011, 09:15 AM
RJJ's palce in history is a PED user imo.

With that black mark agaist his name he cant be considered an ATG.

This is just my opinion, I know alot of you will disagree with my statement.

Vadrigar.
05-04-2011, 09:29 AM
RJJ's palce in history is a PED user imo.

With that black mark agaist his name he cant be considered an ATG.

This is just my opinion, I know alot of you will disagree with my statement.

Well, not any boxer can do what he did by taking PED's, can they?

BKM-2010
05-04-2011, 09:37 AM
He sounds so much like Muhammad Ali.

When they asked Ali how he would do against the past heavyweights he pretty much gave the same answer as Roy did here.

And I agree with both of them. If Roy foughts every LHW ever 3 times, he probably would have beaten everybody atleast once.

That's whats so great about prime RJJ. Because of his athletic ability and boxing skills he won't have a problem with a certain type of style. He can beat anybody. You would have to catch him beat him.

Barn
05-04-2011, 11:36 AM
He seemed in a rush to get somewhere and couldn't be arsed answering questions. Could explain his replys.

IronDanHamza
05-04-2011, 01:37 PM
Considering his defeat at the hands of johnson and Tarver at LHW I think he's over stepping his boundaries and overrating his speed. Maybe he should talk strictly about SMW. Charles definitely beats that version of Roy (Tarver, Johnson).

I think we should consider the 96-98 version of Roy when talking about fantasy fights at 175 as opposed to the 2004 version considering the weight loss had a clear effect on him and showed quite a dramatic decline.

But I agree with you're post I also believe he is stepping his boundries a little saying speed is all it takes to beat the greats he is referring to. Although I believe he's competitive with most at LHW.

At 168, it's another story. I don't see anyone beating Roy Jones Jr at 168.

RAV3N
05-04-2011, 07:00 PM
Well, not any boxer can do what he did by taking PED's, can they?


Im not saying they could but by no means is it a excuse.

IMDAZED
05-06-2011, 10:13 AM
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Agreed. His dominance over common opponents Harmon, Hall and Griffin reaffirm that statement.

I wouldn't say he dominated any of those guys, with the exception of Griffin.

bose
05-06-2011, 09:58 PM
roys weakness, is the gulls he has now

MasterODisaster
05-07-2011, 09:40 PM
No sh1t Sherlock, any good fighter could beat the version of RJJ that Tarver and Johnson beat....Sheesh man, grab a clue! :slap:

The Version of RJJ BEFORE he went up to Heavy would be the better version of RJJ that we are talking about. I'm sure Roy isn't talking about the current version of himself as the one matching up with all time greats. If so, then we'd have to say those greats would also be the crappy versions of themselves just before they retired as well then wouldn't we???