View Full Version : Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis.


RubenSonny
04-02-2011, 04:59 PM
Who is greatest of the 3? I've seen them in every order possible, so I want to get posters opinions on this, poll to vote.

How do peak for peak match-ups with each of them go?

The Surgeon
04-02-2011, 06:46 PM
i like a peak Tyson over damn near anybody including these two but thats just me.

I realise Lewis and Holyfield have perhaps left a better body of work behind but on his very best night i like Tyson to stop both of em

Holyfield gets greatness points for his excellence as a Cruiser too

Lewis imo is the lesser fighter of the three but may actually have the best HW resume

Joeyzagz
04-02-2011, 06:57 PM
Head 2 Head
1.Lennox
2.Holyfield
3.Tyson

Peak of their Powers
1. Lennox
2. Tyson
3. Holyfield

Resume'
1. Holyfield
2. Lennox
3. Tyson

Record
1. Lennox
2. Tyson
3. Holyfield

Overall
1. Lennox
2. Tyson
3. Holyfield
http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/50555429.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=E41C9FE5C4AA0A147AD33C0359540723830C8EF5C0D9BC68 9A157DE17897C6FDB01E70F2B3269972
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/11/22/article-1088638-0051DC6000000258-231_468x420.jpg

Ben Bolt
04-02-2011, 07:04 PM
I like the quote of Sonny Liston: "You can't separate a champion from his time".

Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis - they've all been No. 1 at one stage of their careers. I settle for that.

IronDanHamza
04-02-2011, 07:05 PM
Personally;

1.Tyson
2.Lewis
3.Holyfield

Uturn
04-02-2011, 07:05 PM
I am a big fan of Tyson, but I cannot put Tyson before Holyfield, Lewis. They have the better wins.

Tyson was the better fighter.

Holtol
04-02-2011, 07:20 PM
Good poll, will be interesting to see the results. Tyson beats Lewis and would beat Holyfield although I am not so sure of him beating Holyfield. I think Holyfield beats Lewis.

Steak
04-02-2011, 07:48 PM
p4p-Holyfield
Only Heavyweight- Lewis

Joeyzagz
04-02-2011, 09:39 PM
Good poll, will be interesting to see the results. Tyson beats Lewis and would beat Holyfield although I am not so sure of him beating Holyfield. I think Holyfield beats Lewis.

Lewis beat them both its in the record books.

Doesnt matter what you think.

Holtol
04-02-2011, 10:02 PM
Lewis beat them both its in the record books.

Doesnt matter what you think.

Lol, I just gave my opinion on who I think would win at their peaks like the thread starter asked.

It matters what people think, If everyone thinks someone is great it don't matter if he is a peice of feces. Not on planet Earth it don't matter.

winky's right
04-02-2011, 10:05 PM
H2H (against others):....... 1. Lewis 2. Tyson 3. Holyfield
H2H (against each other):..1. Lewis 2. Holyfield 3. Tyson
P4P:...............................1. Lewis 2. Holyfield 3. Tyson

Joeyzagz
04-02-2011, 10:39 PM
Lol, I just gave my opinion on who I think would win at their peaks like the thread starter asked.

It matters what people think, If everyone thinks someone is great it don't matter.


If we were comparing guys who never fought before, like Ali and Louis, then an opinion would matter.

Both Tyson and Evan fought Lennox in real life and could not defeat him. That's a fact.

Holtol
04-03-2011, 01:58 AM
If we were comparing guys who never fought before, like Ali and Louis, then an opinion would matter.

Both Tyson and Evan fought Lennox in real life and could not defeat him. That's a fact.


Opinion still matters when we are talking about who would beat who at their peak. I know you know better then to say that Lewis beat a peak Holyfield and Tyson. Have you been drinking tonight Zags ?

TBear
04-03-2011, 02:54 AM
May I change my answer every few days as the mood hits me? Tough one!

The Surgeon
04-03-2011, 04:43 AM
If we were comparing guys who never fought before, like Ali and Louis, then an opinion would matter.

Both Tyson and Evan fought Lennox in real life and could not defeat him. That's a fact.

Com'on Zags, we talking PRIMES here. Tyson was what 15 years outta his prime when Lewis got him? Evander was also past his best. So infact the question is a matter of opinion

Stallone60
04-03-2011, 05:01 AM
For me if Tyson never went to prison and fought his 91 clash with holyfield he would of won back the title then fought lewis and beat him also. Holyfield and lewis have a better record in the 90's and beat a shell of the great mike tyson. for me its tyson, holyfield, lewis.

beez721
04-03-2011, 06:05 AM
If we were comparing guys who never fought before, like Ali and Louis, then an opinion would matter.

Both Tyson and Evan fought Lennox in real life and could not defeat him. That's a fact.

tyson and holyfield were damaged goods when lewis fought them. they couldnt fight at a pace anymore. prime tyson and holyfield would have eaten lewis up with there combination punching

bojangles1987
04-03-2011, 06:07 AM
I've never been THAT sold on Tyson's greatness. He was a great fighter, but:

1. Holyfield
2. Lewis
3. Tyson

Holyfield should be the clear number one IMO, Lewis and Tyson is a tougher choice, but I think a prime Lewis beats a prime Tyson. Bring up his chin if you want, but he didn't get knocked out in big fights.

The Surgeon
04-03-2011, 06:12 AM
I've never been THAT sold on Tyson's greatness. He was a great fighter, but:

1. Holyfield
2. Lewis
3. Tyson

Holyfield should be the clear number one IMO, Lewis and Tyson is a tougher choice, but I think a prime Lewis beats a prime Tyson. Bring up his chin if you want, but he didn't get knocked out in big fights.

Lewis had a better chin than given credit for but Tyson hit like a truck and could end him.

I just rate Tyson so highly on what my eyes seen him do but i understand his record falls short of truely great

Toney616
04-03-2011, 06:48 AM
Who is greatest of the 3? I've seen them in every order possible, so I want to get posters opinions on this, poll to vote.

How do peak for peak match-ups with each of them go?
H2H Prime:
Holyfield
Tyson
Lewis

Im using the Holyfield from Bowe I, The Tyson who fought Ribalta and the Lewis who fought Mercer

RubenSonny
04-03-2011, 10:29 AM
Lewis beat them both its in the record books.

Doesnt matter what you think.

Stop trolling, neither were at their peak.

May I change my answer every few days as the mood hits me? Tough one!

:lol1: its a tough one, I still haven't really decided, it can change all the time, just thought I'd stir up some good debate.

Joeyzagz
04-03-2011, 01:31 PM
Roided up Holyfield failed against Lennox, and the early 90's Holyfield with health problems wouldve failed even worse. The aggressive Evan who fought Bowe wouldve opened himself up to more counters and would get beaten to a pulp.

Mike Tyson is too short to do anything significant to Lennox. Prime Tyson couldnt floor Tucker and had serious issues with Buster Douglas. Lennox is an advanced version of Tucker/Douglas with far superior power.

No one with less than an 82 reach has been able to put LL down. Id actually give Liston a better shot at upsetting LL than Tyson or Fields.

Big Ukrainian
04-03-2011, 02:53 PM
Resume

1. Holyfield
2. Lewis
3. Tyson

H2H

1. Holyfield
2. Tyson
3. Lewis

Lewis fought washed up Holyfield, who was fighting in spurts. Evander's workrate was much worse than it was in his prime years. Look, not only Evander was 37 (3 years older, than Lennox), but his first fight for the world title was 13 years before Lewis' fight - actually, he wasn't in his prime since Bowe II fight. Lewis 1st fight for the world title was only 6 years before Holyfield fights, so not only Holyfield was 3 years older, but had 7 more years of fighting against the top fighters. Holyfield was already washed up fighter in 96-97. Yes, he beat Tyson and Moorer, but anybody, who had seen his fights against Qawi, De Leon, Thomas, Dokes, Douglas and Bowe would agree, that he was well past his prime in 96-97. And after that he had only one fight in 98 - he looked awful against Vaughn Bean. After Lewis' fights Holyfield looked awful again in John Ruiz trilogy. Oh, yeah, and a lot of people (including Roy Jones Jr., Larry Holmes and Klitschko brothers) think Holyfield deserved a win in the second Lewis' fight. I think, if both fighters were in there respective primes Holyfield's workrate would cause Lewis a tons of problems.

Lewis - Tyson. Tyson was beyond shot when he fought Lewis. He was washed up for years. He fought exactly ONCE in 20 months prior to Lewis' fight, and he looked awful, completely shot against old and extremely fat dannish heavyweight Brian Nielsen. He was 15-17 lbs overweight and obviously didn't train hard for Lewis' fight. If you think, you can rank Lewis over Tyson (H2H) basing on their fight - well, then you should rank Danny Williams and Kevin McBride ahead of Mike as well.

Saying that, I think Lewis was a great fighter - I can see why people thinking he would beat Holyfield and Tyson in their primes, but please, don't use prime (vs Evander) and good (vs Mike) versions of Lewis defeating well past prime version of Holyfield and shot Tyson as the proof of how Lennox would beat them had he fought the prime versions of both.

Ziggy Stardust
04-03-2011, 03:14 PM
Roided up Holyfield failed against Lennox, and the early 90's Holyfield with health problems wouldve failed even worse. The aggressive Evan who fought Bowe wouldve opened himself up to more counters and would get beaten to a pulp.

Mike Tyson is too short to do anything significant to Lennox. Prime Tyson couldnt floor Tucker and had serious issues with Buster Douglas. Lennox is an advanced version of Tucker/Douglas with far superior power.

No one with less than an 82 reach has been able to put LL down. Id actually give Liston a better shot at upsetting LL than Tyson or Fields.

Asinine. Seriously dude, you need to find a Lennox fan site to post on instead of running propaganda over here. You're as bad as STEELHAMMER2010 or ***** fanbois when it comes to posting literary fellatio of your favorite fighters. Bottom line is you're not a boxing fan you're a nuthugger. Get a clue dude.

Poet

Vadrigar.
04-03-2011, 03:45 PM
H2H and Greatness:

1. Holyfield

2. Tyson

3. Lewis

Toney616
04-05-2011, 06:04 AM
Asinine. Seriously dude, you need to find a Lennox fan site to post on instead of running propaganda over here. You're as bad as STEELHAMMER2010 or ***** fanbois when it comes to posting literary fellatio of your favorite fighters. Bottom line is you're not a boxing fan you're a nuthugger. Get a clue dude.

Poet
lmao:rofl::rofl:
JoeyZagz=Lionheartlewis aka Dan Vida?

GJC
04-05-2011, 09:18 AM
But Tyson listened to his "brother" Don King and had to get whitey out of his life. He fired jim Jacobs too.
Think he fired Jacobs because of his inactivity on account he was dead and nothing to do with his colour. But don't let the facts get in the way of an agenda

CarlosG815
04-05-2011, 09:37 AM
Think he fired Jacobs because of his inactivity on account he was dead and nothing to do with his colour. But don't let the facts get in the way of an agenda

LMAO! I was not aware either that Jacobs was fired. hahaha this is great stuff. :boxing:

Toney616
04-05-2011, 09:45 AM
Think he fired Jacobs because of his inactivity on account he was dead and nothing to do with his colour. But don't let the facts get in the way of an agenda
lol:rofl::rofl:

Jim Jeffries
04-05-2011, 09:56 AM
If we were comparing guys who never fought before, like Ali and Louis, then an opinion would matter.

Both Tyson and Evan fought Lennox in real life and could not defeat him. That's a fact.

Ali fought Trevor Berbick in real life and could not defeat him. That's a fact.

Marciano fought Joe Louis in real life and could not defeat him. That's a fact.

Larry Holmes fought Mike Tyson in real life and could not defeat him. That's a fact.

Roberto Duran fought Vinny Pazienza in real life and could not defeat him. That's a fact.

etc, etc, etc, etc.

Fact is, Tyson was clearly shot and many people thought a past prime Evander avenged what should've been a loss. And if those are Lewis' two best wins, he's in trouble.

The_Demon
04-05-2011, 11:44 AM
Think he fired Jacobs because of his inactivity on account he was dead and nothing to do with his colour. But don't let the facts get in the way of an agenda

Probably one of the funniest things ive ever read,very well worded :rofl:

Joeyzagz
04-05-2011, 11:53 AM
Ali fought Trevor Berbick in real life and could not defeat him. That's a fact.

12 year difference

Marciano fought Joe Louis in real life and could not defeat him. That's a fact.

9 year Difference

Larry Holmes fought Mike Tyson in real life and could not defeat him. That's a fact.

17 year Difference
Roberto Duran fought Vinny Pazienza in real life and could not defeat him. That's a fact.

9 year difference

etc, etc, etc, etc.


Not one of your outrageous examples came close to the 3 year age gap betwixt Evan(36) and Lennox(33). After the fights, Evan had decent wins against top contenders and did well against champ Nikolai Valuev an entire decade later. This is most likely due to his confirmed steroid use, which must be seriously taken into account.

Here is Reality folks:

1. Lennox (2-0-1)
2. Holyfield (2-1-1)
3. Tyson (0-3)

Ziggy Stardust
04-05-2011, 02:38 PM
lmao:rofl::rofl:
JoeyZagz=Lionheartlewis aka Dan Vida?

I know he went by "Soir" for awhile.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
04-05-2011, 02:43 PM
Not one of your outrageous examples came close to the 3 year age gap betwixt Evan(36) and Lennox(33). After the fights, Evan had decent wins against top contenders and did well against champ Nikolai Valuev an entire decade later. This is most likely due to his confirmed steroid use, which must be seriously taken into account.

You have to forgive JoeyZags here: In his simplistic child-like nuthuggery he can't grasp the concept that "prime" doesn't refer to a set age bracket hence rendering meaningless "3 year age gaps". The whole idea that a fighter can be washed up in his 20s (for example Wilfred Benitez) is completely beyond him.

Poet

Steak
04-06-2011, 12:23 AM
1. Klitschko
2. Klitschko
3. Lewis
4. Holyfield
5. Tyson

lmfao

"Who do you think would win between Louis and Ali, Klitschko2011?"

"Klitschko by brutal KO"

The_Demon
04-06-2011, 05:17 AM
1. Klitschko
2. Klitschko
3. Lewis
4. Holyfield
5. Tyson

Haha in your dreams

Joeyzagz
04-06-2011, 08:02 AM
Lennox is the worst boxer ever when it comes to fantasy fights.http://bloodysports.com/holyfield.jpg
The Prime versions of fighters always knock him out.
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/1008/box_lewis_klitschko_600.jpg
and beat him to a bloody pulp.
http://www.virginmedia.com/images/lennox.jpg
Lennox would cry like a b.tch if he faced these guys in Fantasy Land!
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/15/olivermccry.gif
The only place where his style is worth a damn is in real life, otherwise he is sh.t

-Lowkey-
04-06-2011, 08:21 AM
Lewis>>>Holyfield>>>Tyson

Toney616
04-06-2011, 08:41 AM
Lewis>>>Holyfield>>>Tyson
If a over the hill Holyfield can give Lewis a competitive fight, the chances are a prime Holyfield would beat him

If Oliver McCall can get you out of there in 2 rounds the chances are a prime Tyson would have a good chance as well

Jim Jeffries
04-06-2011, 08:45 AM
Not one of your outrageous examples came close to the 3 year age gap betwixt Evan(36) and Lennox(33). After the fights, Evan had decent wins against top contenders and did well against champ Nikolai Valuev an entire decade later. This is most likely due to his confirmed steroid use, which must be seriously taken into account.

Here is Reality folks:

1. Lennox (2-0-1)
2. Holyfield (2-1-1)
3. Tyson (0-3)

The reality is Tyson was well over a decade past his best. And you're trolling if you're trying to portray otherwise.

Toney616
04-06-2011, 08:50 AM
I know he went by "Soir" for awhile.

Poet
True, but his Lewis nuthuggery is on the same scale as Lionheartlewis's

Vadrigar.
04-06-2011, 09:05 AM
True, but his Lewis nuthuggery is on the same scale as Lionheartlewis's

Don't forget General Zod too.

Toney616
04-06-2011, 09:32 AM
Don't forget General Zod too.
Zagz takes it to another level. Dudes just here to spread Lewis/Calzaghe propaganda

The_Demon
04-06-2011, 09:40 AM
Cumon Joey,you are giving good Lewis fans like me a bad name

CarlosG815
04-06-2011, 01:28 PM
Don't forget General Zod too.

IronMike. is General Zod

CarlosG815
04-06-2011, 01:29 PM
Cumon Joey,you are giving good Lewis fans like me a bad name

I find Zags to be very amusing lately. I'm not being condescending, he legitimately entertains me with the posts that he makes. The fact that he refuses or fails to see the idiocy of his statements makes it comical to me.

Vadrigar.
04-06-2011, 01:30 PM
IronMike. is General Zod

Really... how do you know?

I thought General Zod was one of the biggest Lewis nuthuggers.

CarlosG815
04-06-2011, 01:40 PM
Really... how do you know?

I thought General Zod was one of the biggest Lewis nuthuggers.

He was, and a Tyson hater. Under his new alias he sings a different tune but every mannerism is the same from the way he does multi quotes with bolding, down to his last avatar picture.

Ziggy Stardust
04-06-2011, 01:44 PM
You know I like Lewis and enjoyed watching him fight: I just don't have any delusions over his abilities in a historical context. I enjoyed watching Jessie Ferguson fight too but that doesn't compell me to make him anything more than the journeyman he was. Of course I don't have Zags' Brit = automatic ATG mentality either so go figure.

Poet

ShinCrossOver
04-06-2011, 03:04 PM
1. Tyson
2. Lewis
3. Holyfield

I just can't get past my memories and visions of a prime Mike Tyson. The bullish aggression, the fluid bob 'n weave, the dynamite hooks and uppercuts... It didn't matter how much bigger the other fighter was. They all backed away (not tactically... in fear) from Iron Mike and his power. Mike Tyson all the way...

The Surgeon
04-06-2011, 03:16 PM
Lewis for me personally is the lesser fighter of these three but he does have a great case for being the numero uno but bringing up his bouts with a Holyfield clearly on the slide and a shot to utter ***** Tyson is not the way to make his case

The_Demon
04-06-2011, 05:35 PM
I find Zags to be very amusing lately. I'm not being condescending, he legitimately entertains me with the posts that he makes. The fact that he refuses or fails to see the idiocy of his statements makes it comical to me.

Ye i get that,similar too the way Sonnyboys obsessive hatred for Lewis became comical very quickly,it seems Joeys nuthuggery of the same fighter has done the same

CarlosG815
04-06-2011, 06:16 PM
Ye i get that,similar too the way Sonnyboys obsessive hatred for Lewis became comical very quickly,it seems Joeys nuthuggery of the same fighter has done the same

Comparing the likes of Sonny to Zags because of your nationalistic love for Lewis... Comical! :haha:

The_Demon
04-06-2011, 07:11 PM
Comparing the likes of Sonny to Zags because of your nationalistic love for Lewis... Comical! :haha:

Sorry i forgot you were still hanging off sonnyboys nuts,and mike tysons it seems looking at some of your earlier posts,my bad,i almost thought you were a decent poster for a second there,sonnyboy was an obsessive deluded hater,deal with it

CarlosG815
04-06-2011, 07:30 PM
Sorry i forgot you were still hanging off sonnyboys nuts,and mike tysons it seems looking at some of your earlier posts,my bad,i almost thought you were a decent poster for a second there,sonnyboy was an obsessive deluded hater,deal with it

Sonny was an objective fan with no nationalistic bias who was not afraid to recall things as they were.

RubenSonny
04-06-2011, 07:53 PM
Sorry i forgot you were still hanging off sonnyboys nuts,and mike tysons it seems looking at some of your earlier posts,my bad,i almost thought you were a decent poster for a second there,sonnyboy was an obsessive deluded hater,deal with it

Don't play that card, your purposefully picking a fight, just leave it...

Jim Jeffries
04-06-2011, 07:58 PM
Sonny was an objective fan with no nationalistic bias who was not afraid to recall things as they were.

Yes, he objectively discarded every single win on Lennox's resume.:thinking1:

The funny thing was, he would argue to the ends of the earth that Lewis was not a top 10 ATG HW. When asked where he would place Lewis, "oh about 12th." Kinda of like a guy saying fighter X was robbed, and you ask them their score, "oh 115-113." :?!:

Good thread though, one or two of these guys could interchangeably be used in any top 10 ATG HW list, depending on what you place more emphasis on.

Joeyzagz
04-08-2011, 05:47 PM
what is amusing about this thread is how Lewis is ahead in the pole yet not once has any voter posted why they think he is superior to Tyson or Holyfield with the reason for that being that there is no case to be made for putting him ahead of those two otherwise they would have done it..
Lewis is ahead because not one person can make a solid argument AGAINST him. All they can do is comment on the poor condition of Holyfield(99) and Tyson(02), But that is a knock on those fighters, not Lennox himself.

If anything it further proves Lennox's superiority that he can perform beyond 36 after being brutally Ko'd twice. Tyson gets KO'd once and his career is effectively over.


As for Evander Holyfield, I have no idea when his prime was? Is it when he lost a clear cut decision against Bowe? or is it when he was suffering from health problems in 94-95?
Dr. Margaret Goodman, chairman of the medical advisory board of Nevada Athletic Commission, says that as early as 1994, when Holyfield fought Michael Moorer and suffered heart problems, the medical arm of the Commission questioned Holyfield about possible [B]HGH use. "There were questions the abnormalities Evander had with his heart were findings that could have been consistent with growth hormone use. The problem was there was no test and Evander denied any use of growth hormone."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/02/28/holyfield/index.html

Holyfield was a lot healthier IMO when he started taking safer drugs in the late 90's and 2000's. I believe Lennox beats the sick Holyfield, the Holyfield that lost to Bowe, as well as the old one from 99.

Joeyzagz
04-09-2011, 03:48 AM
Weight gain is not a good indicator for roid use. Jess WIllard and Buddy Baer were 220's in their careers and blew up to 250 in a short amount of time. Both had similar frames to Lennox and that was before designer drugs.

Roid users will usually have mysterious injuries and peculiar health problems: (Evander Holyfield, Vitali Klitschko, Shannon Briggs, Tommy Morrison) all fit this description. All confirmed users.

CiganoBoxer
04-09-2011, 04:09 AM
Good poll, will be interesting to see the results. Tyson beats Lewis and would beat Holyfield although I am not so sure of him beating Holyfield. I think Holyfield beats Lewis.But they never did ...did they ;)

madmadworld
04-09-2011, 04:11 AM
if they are in their prime they Land Punches and since
lewis has a glass jaw they both ko him.
he's the only HW Champ i could have ko'd in my prime LOL

Holtol
04-09-2011, 04:54 AM
But they never did ...did they ;)

Lol, do you not understand that this is prime vs prime? It is another weekend again are you another Lewis fan that is hammered to the point where you think Lewis beat Holyfield and Tyson in their prime?

What is Lewis best win? Was it his draw with Holfield or the win over Holyfield that he should of lost? Was it his win over Vitali when Lewis was down on the cards and Vitali was screaming for the fight not to be stopped? Fill me in I would like to know what Lewis did that made you think that he was better then a prime Holyfield or Tyson.

Lol, It makes me laugh that I have been filled in twice that Lewis beat Tyson and Holyfield. I find it more humorus then you likely know.

SBleeder
04-09-2011, 10:00 AM
Fill me in I would like to know what Lewis did that made you think that he was better then a prime Holyfield or Tyson.


What did Tyson do that should make me think he was better than a prime Holyfield or Lewis?

DUCK FACE
04-09-2011, 10:07 AM
if they are in their prime they Land Punches and since
lewis has a glass jaw they both ko him.
he's the only HW Champ i could have ko'd in my prime LOL

He certainly did not have a glass jaw or he would have been put down a hell of a lot more and lost by tko/ko a lot more...

Lets be honest here Lewis did not focus on the first Rahman fight enough got ****y and hit with a massive shot and got took out.. it happens when you have 250lb guys hitting each other.

WelshDevilRob
04-09-2011, 10:09 AM
Lennox was a vastly superior fighter in the late 90s early 00s while he was taking Steroids and weighing 35lbs more than he had in the early 90s... Holyfields prime was the night he lost to Riddick Bowe in 92 yet he was still good enough in 2000 to beat Lewis yet was robbed of the decision.. Tyson's prime was 1986-89 when he cleaned out the Heavyweight division beating all contenders to his title something Lewis refused to do so was stripped of the title belts.. Lewis being stripped of those belts is something you Joeyzags never addresses, it's as if you believe that it never happened as you repeatedly claim Lewis to be "The dominant Heavyweight " of the 90s-2003 without ever accepting that his two greatest career victories was a highly debatable decision over an old Holyfield and a KO win over the shell of Mike Tyson.. you try to insinuate Lewis was in the same physical condition to those two because of his age, yet the truth is that Steroids helped Lewis immensely during that period and his victory over Tyson was no greater than Kevin McBride or Danny Williams victory over him.

Awful, uneducated post. I'd go as far as to say its one of the worst I've seen on any forum. Utter trash.

WelshDevilRob
04-09-2011, 10:17 AM
I voted for: 1. Lewis, 2. Tyson, 3. Holyfield

All superb fighters and had outstanding careers. I'm not going to get into ripping one apart to prove another is better, as I rate all three very highly.

I've gone for Lennox as I believe he had the better traditional boxing skills of the three and was more adaptable. His size is a plus aswell. His jab and power and great ring generalship would see him outpoint both Tyson and Holyfield.

I've gone for Tyson over Holyfield as I think he takes a close decision, when he was at his best without a long layoff or out of the ring distractions.

GJC
04-09-2011, 10:18 AM
Lennox was a vastly superior fighter in the late 90s early 00s while he was taking Steroids and weighing 35lbs more than he had in the early 90s... Holyfields prime was the night he lost to Riddick Bowe in 92 yet he was still good enough in 2000 to beat Lewis yet was robbed of the decision.. Tyson's prime was 1986-89 when he cleaned out the Heavyweight division beating all contenders to his title something Lewis refused to do so was stripped of the title belts.. Lewis being stripped of those belts is something you Joeyzags never addresses, it's as if you believe that it never happened as you repeatedly claim Lewis to be "The dominant Heavyweight " of the 90s-2003 without ever accepting that his two greatest career victories was a highly debatable decision over an old Holyfield and a KO win over the shell of Mike Tyson.. you try to insinuate Lewis was in the same physical condition to those two because of his age, yet the truth is that Steroids helped Lewis immensely during that period and his victory over Tyson was no greater than Kevin McBride or Danny Williams victory over him.
There is no evidence that Lewis took steroids Sonny, you've floated this kite before with zero to back it up.

The_Demon
04-09-2011, 10:34 AM
Awful, uneducated post. I'd go as far as to say its one of the worst I've seen on any forum. Utter trash.

Thats sonnyboy for you,he makes stuff up about Lewis because he has an obsessive hatred for him,he cant back anything up that he says,which makes it even more laughable

Joeyzagz
04-09-2011, 12:19 PM
Lol, It makes me laugh that I have been filled in twice that Lewis beat Tyson and Holyfield. I find it more humorus then you likely know.

Make it 3 times...

-Holyfield never beat Lewis
-Tyson never beat Lewis

Everything else is make-believe and speculation.

Holtol
04-09-2011, 01:42 PM
What did Tyson do that should make me think he was better than a prime Holyfield or Lewis?

I watched many of Tyson's fights before he ever lost, I was young but I still knew how great Tyson was. In 1990 I was 14 years old and very shocked that Tyson had lost. Tyson was one of the most ferocious and gifted fighters I have ever seen. I was actully afraid of Tyson, he struck fear in me. Like he did all his opponents, because he was that good.

Holtol
04-09-2011, 02:30 PM
Make it 3 times...

-Holyfield never beat Lewis
-Tyson never beat Lewis

Everything else is make-believe and speculation.

So if Lewis came out of retirement and was beat by David Haye would you think Haye was a better fighter then Lewis in his prime? Do you people think I am this stupid that you can tell me that Lewis beat Holyfield and Tyson so he was allways the better fighter? LMAO!

It's not like that never crossed my mind its well known that Lewis beat Tyson and Holyfield. Some of you have a firm grasp on the obvious I will give you that. The second fight Holyfield did not really lose imo. Holyfield made far better adjustments then Lewis in the second fight. Because he was a smarter boxer even though Lewis would go on and on about how he was like a chess master at boxing.

Jim Jeffries
04-09-2011, 07:03 PM
Make it 3 times...

-Holyfield never beat Lewis
-Tyson never beat Lewis

Everything else is make-believe and speculation.

Quite a few people thought a past prime Holyfield beat a prime Lewis in the rematch. Rather difficult to convince those people (and more) that a prime Evander couldn't do better (beat Lewis more convincingly.)

No sane person thinks that Williams or McBride stand a chance in hell against a prime Tyson. Or that Mike's fight with Lewis meant any more than a record payday for Lennox.

Joeyzagz
04-09-2011, 09:47 PM
Quite a few people thought a past prime Holyfield beat a prime Lewis in the rematch. Rather difficult to convince those people (and more) that a prime Evander couldn't do better (beat Lewis more convincingly.)



The only way Evander has a shot against Lennox/Bowe type guys is with boring, stingy, tit-for-tat offense, and this will produce an ambiguous SD win at best. He is not beating anyone of these guys convincingly, regardless of prime.

-When he tried to throw with Bowe, he got knocked on his ass.

-When he tried to bang with Lewis, he was outlanded 348 to 130.

Evander is good, but against an elite superheavyweight you need elite power. These guys dont lose Unanimous decisions.

Ziggy Stardust
04-09-2011, 10:05 PM
Evander is good, but against an elite superheavyweight you need elite power. These guys dont lose Unanimous decisions.

You're being a size whore again :rolleyes9:

SBleeder
04-09-2011, 10:17 PM
I watched many of Tyson's fights before he ever lost, I was young but I still knew how great Tyson was. In 1990 I was 14 years old and very shocked that Tyson had lost. Tyson was one of the most ferocious and gifted fighters I have ever seen. I was actully afraid of Tyson, he struck fear in me. Like he did all his opponents, because he was that good.

Fine, but my question was "what did he do"? Looking ferocious and dominant against bus drivers isn't impressive to me. Against the more talented opposition that he faced in his prime, he looked very average at best (Tillis, Tucker, Douglas, Ruddock). None of his early knockouts convince me that he'd do well against great fighters.

Holtol
04-09-2011, 11:48 PM
Fine, but my question was "what did he do"? Looking ferocious and dominant against bus drivers isn't impressive to me. Against the more talented opposition that he faced in his prime, he looked very average at best (Tillis, Tucker, Douglas, Ruddock). None of his early knockouts convince me that he'd do well against great fighters.

Tyson did more during the 80's then Lewis did in his entire carreer. Boxing is something that people think is not appreciated by many people. There is as much energy in boxing as a Hollywood industry. All it needs is pratitioners that are alive to bring it alive. Watch Tyson then watch Lewis, now watch Tyson again. That should be enough to cure you of your malady, but it won't. Good bye, Good night, Enjoy watching the likes of Lewis.

Ziggy Stardust
04-10-2011, 01:34 AM
Tyson did more during the 80's then Lewis did in his entire carreer. Boxing is something that people think is not appreciated by many people. There is as much energy in boxing as a Hollywood industry. All it needs is pratitioners that are alive to bring it alive. Watch Tyson then watch Lewis, now watch Tyson again. That should be enough to cure you of your malady, but it won't. Good bye, Good night, Enjoy watching the likes of Lewis.

While I agree with you that Tyson is a better fighter than Lewis I don't think you can base it on their respective entertainment value. Entertaining does not a great fighter make. Arturo Gatti was entertaining as hell.....but not a great fighter. Roy Jones was constantly pilloried in his prime for being boring.....but someone would have to have rocks in their head if they don't think he was one of the greats.

Poet

Holtol
04-10-2011, 01:42 AM
While I agree with you that Tyson is a better fighter than Lewis I don't think you can base it on their respective entertainment value. Entertaining does not a great fighter make. Arturo Gatti was entertaining as hell.....but not a great fighter. Roy Jones was constantly pilloried in his prime for being boring.....but someone would have to have rocks in their head if they don't think he was one of the greats.

Poet

I found Tyson entertaining because he was a very good boxer. Gatti I found entertaining for his great punch resistance. I am trying to exsplain to someone why I think Tyson would beat Lewis. Maybe you can exsplain it better, I would not be surpriesed.

Ziggy Stardust
04-10-2011, 02:07 AM
I found Tyson entertaining because he was a very good boxer. Gatti I found entertaining for his great punch resistance. I am trying to exsplain to someone why I think Tyson would beat Lewis. Maybe you can exsplain it better, I would not be surpriesed.

I'd put it this way: Prime Tyson was significantly faster than Prime Lewis both in foot speed and hand speed. Tyson had a much more well rounded offensive skill set, and took a MUCH better punch. Lewis' advantage of reach is only an advantage if he can use it to keep Tyson from slipping inside of it. Lennox' range finder of a jab isn't going to do it and he isn't going to land enough right hands to make up the difference. There's simply too many things that Tyson does better than Lewis and Lewis' strengths just aren't enough to counter-balance it.

Lewis is certainly a good enough fighter to be competitive. If he and Tyson fought five times I could see Lennox snagging a win or two. But to favor him? No way. Anyone who posts on here ought to know I'm a critic of Tyson (mostly because of the inflated view of him some of his slavish fans have), but there's no denying the dude was a great fighter (even if not quite so great as some think). That being said, Lennox isn't a scrub as some make out: I don't think he quite makes the cut for ATG status, but the guy was near-great and that's no shabby status either.

So ultimately, should Tyson win that matchup? Absolutely. Do I think it would be a competitive matchup? Yes I do. Is it possible Tyson sparkes Lennox out quick? Sure, that's always a possibility given the combination of Mike's punch and Lewis' chin. Could Tyson be a bit off and Lennox pops him from the outside all night long and wins a UD? Sure, that's always a possibility when one guy has a big reach advantage. Is it likely? 60/40 no.

Does that help or did I just confuse the issue? :chuckle9:

Poet

Holtol
04-10-2011, 02:17 AM
I'd put it this way: Prime Tyson was significantly faster than Prime Lewis both in foot speed and hand speed. Tyson had a much more well rounded offensive skill set, and took a MUCH better punch. Lewis' advantage of reach is only an advantage if he can use it to keep Tyson from slipping inside of it. Lennox' range finder of a jab isn't going to do it and he isn't going to land enough right hands to make up the difference. There's simply too many things that Tyson does better than Lewis and Lewis' strengths just aren't enough to counter-balance it.

Lewis is certainly a good enough fighter to be competitive. If he and Tyson fought five times I could see Lennox snagging a win or two. But to favor him? No way. Anyone who posts on here ought to know I'm a critic of Tyson (mostly because of the inflated view of him some of his slavish fans have), but there's no denying the dude was a great fighter (even if not quite so great as some think). That being said, Lennox isn't a scrub as some make out: I don't think he quite makes the cut for ATG status, but the guy was near-great and that's no shabby status either.

So ultimately, should Tyson win that matchup? Absolutely. Do I think it would be a competitive matchup? Yes I do. Is it possible Tyson sparkes Lennox out quick? Sure, that's always a possibility given the combination of Mike's punch and Lewis' chin. Could Tyson be a bit off and Lennox pops him from the outside all night long and wins a UD? Sure, that's always a possibility when one guy has a big reach advantage. Is it likely? 60/40 no.

Does that help or did I just confuse the issue? :chuckle9:

Poet


Thats a good way of exsplaining why Tyson would beat Lewis, thanks Poet. What I was trying to exsplain was a little messed up. I admit I have had to much to drink have a nice night.

Ziggy Stardust
04-10-2011, 02:20 AM
Thats a good way of exsplaining why Tyson would beat Lewis, thanks Poet. What I was trying to exsplain was a little messed up. I admit I have had to much to drink have a nice night.

Hey, it's a fight night so you can have dispensation for bending the elbow a bit :hah9:

Poet

SonnyboyReturns
04-10-2011, 05:01 AM
There is zero evidence Holyfield used Steroids.. Lewis refusal to fight John Ruiz is in my opinion a sign of his guilt of using steroids as Ruiz has always insisted his opponents be drug tested.. there is so many pointers saying Lewis was a steroid user with several Historians putting it into print, so claiming there is "ZERO evidence is totally incorrect yet in your case i have never known you to be correct on anything to do with boxing and i expected you to try to trip-me-up because you are Lewis No1 fan on this forum although you deny it

:lol1:.................

GJC
04-10-2011, 05:49 AM
There is zero evidence Holyfield used Steroids.. Lewis refusal to fight John Ruiz is in my opinion a sign of his guilt of using steroids as Ruiz has always insisted his opponents be drug tested.. there is so many pointers saying Lewis was a steroid user with several Historians putting it into print, so claiming there is "ZERO evidence is totally incorrect yet in your case i have never known you to be correct on anything to do with boxing and i expected you to try to trip-me-up because you are Lewis No1 fan on this forum although you deny it
I thought Lewis didn't fight Ruiz because he was terrified of him? Sonny for the 500th time I'm not a fan of Lewis but am a fan of facts and logic which is why I and 99% of the other posters don't agree with your take on Lewis. The ironic thing is you rate Lewis around 12 all time which is where I rate him. Thing is I rate him there based on resume and how I think he'd do h2h against other heavys in history. Considering you don't rate ANY win of his and never think he would have beaten ANY heavyweight in history having him at 12 is another example of your logic re Lewis.
By the way when people start to ignore your "facts", after they have chopped them to shreds a dozen times in the past but can't be bothered to again, that doesn't signal agreement old son

CiganoBoxer
04-10-2011, 07:58 AM
I would love to know what Tyson did in his career that surpassed Lewis career to get ATG status and Lewis doesn't !?
I like Tyson more to watch but on achievements i would not place him on merit higher than Lewis ...how could you as the fact is Lewis beat better fighters than Tyson did fact ..as someone else pointed out earlier Lewis s body of work is higher ...
Now we can all surmise what tyson would of been had he done this or that or if cuss would of been alive etc ..but the fact is he didn't did he ...
I like how atlas summed Tyson up once ..he said : A shooting star can be brilliant but its not great as true great stars last and Tyson's never did "

GJC
04-10-2011, 08:30 AM
again you are wrong my old son... your claim that 99% of poster disagree with my take on Lewis but all you have to do is read the posts on this here topic to see that around 80% of posters are in total agreement with what i claim about Lewis in that he was hugely fortunate to be given the decision over Holyfield and that he beat a shell of Mike Tyson... so no one is ignoring "My Facts" as you claim, they are infact voicing their opinions which are the same opinions as i also have... so nice try GJC but again you fall short my friend, you never ever talk boxing on this forum all you seem to do is try to trip -up others and fail
Sonny you mistake apathy for agreement, I'm 100% confident that if you were to summarise your opinions on Lewis and put them to a vote your 80% would nose dive to 5%. As for my never discussing boxing I don't see where you are getting that from. I do pick you up on your more outrageous claims but I don't go around tripping people up as you put it

madmadworld
04-10-2011, 08:33 AM
He certainly did not have a glass jaw or he would have been put down a hell of a lot more and lost by tko/ko a lot more...

name any other real HW champ before him that had a weaker chin ?
both he and Wladimir have the weakest chins of all real HW champions i've ever seen.
they also have what i call scared as heck look on their faces when they are on.
and get ko'd when they don't.

The_Demon
04-10-2011, 09:17 AM
I would love to know what Tyson did in his career that surpassed Lewis career to get ATG status and Lewis doesn't !?
I like Tyson more to watch but on achievements i would not place him on merit higher than Lewis ...how could you as the fact is Lewis beat better fighters than Tyson did fact ..as someone else pointed out earlier Lewis s body of work is higher ...
Now we can all surmise what tyson would of been had he done this or that or if cuss would of been alive etc ..but the fact is he didn't did he ...
I like how atlas summed Tyson up once ..he said : A shooting star can be brilliant but its not great as true great stars last and Tyson's never did "

Based on body of work Lewis eclipses Tyson,for a guy who is considered so great Tysons' resume is paper thin,its the fact that he was so exciting and explosive that people get sentimental about,im a huge fan of Tyson and his style but he was little more than a flash in the pan and never looked the same during his comeback,people need too remember he isnt some god

Barnburner
04-10-2011, 09:28 AM
Heavywegiht.
1. Lewis
2. Holyfield
3. Tyson

P4P

1. Holyifeld
2. Lewis
3. Tyson

Jim Jeffries
04-10-2011, 09:31 AM
name any other real HW champ before him that had a weaker chin ?
both he and Wladimir have the weakest chins of all real HW champions i've ever seen.
they also have what i call scared as heck look on their faces when they are on.
and get ko'd when they don't.

Floyd Patterson? You may have heard of him.

RubenSonny
04-10-2011, 12:03 PM
Based on body of work Lewis eclipses Tyson,for a guy who is considered so great Tysons' resume is paper thin,its the fact that he was so exciting and explosive that people get sentimental about,im a huge fan of Tyson and his style but he was little more than a flash in the pan and never looked the same during his comeback,people need too remember he isnt some god

Care to elaborate...

Joeyzagz
04-10-2011, 01:16 PM
You're being a size whore again :rolleyes9:

You're really naive if you think it plays no factor. It's not a coincidence the only two men to put Lennox down had an 82' reach.

If Lennox is old, fat and disinterested, Id'll give Prime Tyson a decent shot to win.

Vadrigar.
04-10-2011, 01:20 PM
You're really naive if you think it plays no factor. It's not a coincidence the only two men to put Lennox down had an 82' reach.


A 5'11" Mike Tyson packed more power and speed than those journeymen who starched Lewis and had the skill set to go with it.

If Lennox is old, fat and disinterested, Id'll give Prime Tyson a decent shot to win.

If Tyson is old, fat and disinterested, I'll give lewis a decent shot to win.

Oops that already happened.

Ziggy Stardust
04-10-2011, 01:39 PM
You're really naive if you think it plays no factor. It's not a coincidence the only two men to put Lennox down had an 82' reach.

If Lennox is old, fat and disinterested, Id'll give Prime Tyson a decent shot to win.

You're really naive if you think ability plays no factor. It's no coincidence that every argument you make for Lennox always boils down to "he's big":

Lennox beats Ali.....cuz he's big.
Lennox beats Foreman.....cuz he's big.
Lennox beat Liston.....cuz he's big.
Ect. ect. ect. to a nauseating broken record of an ect.

Look, we know you fantasize about performing fellatio on Lennox on a daily basis but that type of homo man-love propaganda belongs in NSB with the rest of the brainless fan-boi lurv letters.....It doesn't belong in the History Section.

Poet

Joeyzagz
04-10-2011, 01:55 PM
If Tyson is old, fat and disinterested, I'll give lewis a decent shot to win.


We know Tyson cant beat anyone his own age so of course Lennox won. Tyson needs a 10 year youth advantage on an elite HW to even have a chance.

Disinterested Larry Holmes was able to easily neutralize Prime Tyson with holds. Tyson couldnt get a break until Larry started dancing like a goof with hands down. If he cant escape a Larry's holds whats he going to do when he gets ensnared In Lennox's nasty clinches?

Ziggy Stardust
04-10-2011, 01:58 PM
We know Tyson cant beat anyone his own age so of course Lennox won. Tyson needs a 10 year youth advantage on an elite HW to even have a chance.

See my previous post on your child-like inability to grasp the concept that "prime" isn't a fixed age range. :rolleyes9:

Poet

Joeyzagz
04-10-2011, 02:01 PM
You're really naive if you think ability plays no factor. It's no coincidence that every argument you make for Lennox always boils down to "he's big":



Ability is very important. Lennox has both ability and size, which is why he'd be an absolute nightmare for any version of Mike Tyson.

Ziggy Stardust
04-10-2011, 02:06 PM
Ability is very important. Lennox has both ability and size, which is why he'd be an absolute nightmare for any version of Mike Tyson.

Fallacious. Lennox did NOT have the level of ability that Tyson had. Or Ali. Or Foreman. Or Liston. Or Holmes. Or Holyfield. Or a half a dozen other Heavyweights I could name that you've claimed in the past that Lewis beats. Lewis' ability was NOT on the same level as any of them. I'm sorry to bust your bubble but in terms of ability Lennox was so far beneath Ali that he'd have to stand on his mummy's shoulders just to kiss Ali's azz.

Poet

Barnburner
04-10-2011, 02:16 PM
You're really naive if you think ability plays no factor. It's no coincidence that every argument you make for Lennox always boils down to "he's big":

Lennox beats Ali.....cuz he's big.
Lennox beats Foreman.....cuz he's big.
Lennox beat Liston.....cuz he's big.
Ect. ect. ect. to a nauseating broken record of an ect.

Look, we know you fantasize about performing fellatio on Lennox on a daily basis but that type of homo man-love propaganda belongs in NSB with the rest of the brainless fan-boi lurv letters.....It doesn't belong in the History Section.

Poet
I would love to posess your writing style :lol1:

Ziggy Stardust
04-10-2011, 02:18 PM
I would love to posess your writing style :lol1:

Ah! The Bennies of having an English degree :chuckle9:

Poet

Vadrigar.
04-10-2011, 02:26 PM
We know Tyson cant beat anyone his own age so of course Lennox won. Tyson needs a 10 year youth advantage on an elite HW to even have a chance.

Once again showing up your ignorance of age, mileage and a fighters prime.

GJC
04-10-2011, 04:09 PM
my comments on Lewis are all justified and can be debated whereas your comments and hatred of the great Tony Zale are laughable, you seem to go against everything the guy achieved in his entire career even claiming he was not worthy enough to be inducted into the hall of fame

Zale is totally off topic but if you wish to take this off subject in a personal way lets go.


A post of mine illustrating my hatred of Tony Zale

Would have thought that Homicide Hank would have been mentioned by now. Tony Zale is worth a mention too and Archie Moore's body work get overlooked I think.
Some good names mentioned so far though

A thread where we conversed about Zale which I've even left my typo in about him beating Conn!

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374986&highlight=tony+zale

My problem with Zale is that if you look at some of the fighters that were active in his era:
Sugar Ray Robinson
Ezzard Charles
Charley Burley
Jake La Motta
Lloyd Marshall
Rocky Graziano
Tony Zale
Marcel Cerdan
Cocoa Kid
Al Hostak
George Abrams
Jack Chase
Fritzie Zivic
Eddie Booker
Holman Williams
Archie Moore

there are an awful lot missing from his resume and i'll happily debate anyone on that score. I'll accept that the war did cut into his career but pre war he missed a hell of a lot of fighters and whilst he did get caught up in the Graziano trilogy he did have a dozen fights other than Rocky and Cerdan so he was pretty active.
If you want to accuse Lewis of cherry picking opponents I would suggest that Zale would not be the fighter to use as a comparison. If I used your logic it would be very easy to drive a coach and horses through Zale's wjhole career but as I respect Zale as I do all men who lace up the gloves I wont sink to your level.
As for me claiming Zale isn't worthy to be in the hall of fame you will have to show me that post, if you can of course. Personally I dont hold much stock in the hall of fame and expect in time that every fighter who has ever held any version of a title will get in it.

Getting back to Zale to summarise I don't put him in a top 10 of atg of middleweight as I don't believe his resume makes him a top 5 MW of his era.
If you wish to start a thread championing Zale, who I do have a lot of respect for, i'll happily use my minimal boxing knowledge to chop him down in your style.

GJC
04-10-2011, 04:20 PM
3/. Lewis v Bowe Olympic final was a bazaar stoppage after Bowe was warned 15 times by the referee

GJC i won't be surprised if you now go missing for awhile

Don't really have the energy to go over all this again, agree with my take or not I think you'll agree that I (along with many others) have replied to your points on several occassions?

Totally agree with you on point 3 though as I posted in your thread below, I did point out though that the referee was East German as cleary mentioned in the commentary of the video you posted you unfortunately disappeared from that thread ;)

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9154573&postcount=1

madmadworld
04-10-2011, 05:34 PM
He certainly did not have a glass jaw or he would have been put down a hell of a lot more and lost by tko/ko a lot more...

Lets be honest here Lewis did not focus on the first Rahman fight enough got ****y and hit with a massive shot and got took out.. it happens when you have 250lb guys hitting each other.

Floyd Patterson? You may have heard of him.
really
he held on to the belt for only 4 fights
and got up 7 times when he lost it.
you would never see these two get up 7 times
if you say so

by the way thats a great Reagan Quote

Ziggy Stardust
04-10-2011, 11:23 PM
Vitali Klitschko vs Lennox Lewis

THE TRUTH

Vitali took the fight on just 10 days notice then grew a vagina on his face.

Vitali was clearly winning the fight 4-2 on all 3 scorecards at the time of growing a vagina on his face.

vaginas grown on face

Vitali 1
Lewis 0

Lewis was exhausted from turning Vitali's face into a sex organ.

All the fans at Staples Center cheered for Vitali and booed Lewis after the fight because, hey, everyone loves puzzy on their faces.

Lewis promised Vitali another facial vagina.

Vitali destroyed Kirk Johnson because he was embaressed by having a vagina on his face.

Lewis turned down 30 million dollars because he knew Vitali would retire on his stool like a coward like he did with Byrd.

Vitali dominated with vagisil and scared his face vagina into retirement.

Lewis is scared to death of getting a yeast infection from Vitali's face vagina.

Glad to see you telling like it is :allhail9:

Ziggy Stardust
04-10-2011, 11:29 PM
http://www.classicrockforums.com/forum/images/smilies/beat_deadhorse.gifhttp://www.classicrockforums.com/forum/images/smilies/beat_deadhorse.gifhttp://www.classicrockforums.com/forum/images/smilies/beat_deadhorse.gifhttp://www.classicrockforums.com/forum/images/smilies/beat_deadhorse.gif

madmadworld
04-10-2011, 11:38 PM
Lewis was coming off the KO win over Tyson. In the Lewis-Tyson post fight interview Lewis stated "I'm like fine wine, I get better with age"

In an interview right before the Vitali fight, Lewis said "I'm at the peak of my powers, I will keep fighting for many more years"

Vitali dominated Lewis and scared him into retirement.
GREAT post
Lewis way over rated around here

DeepSleep
04-11-2011, 01:29 AM
Greatness is pretty vague.

Greatness as in who was the best in their prime?

Greatness as in who had the best resume?

GJC
04-11-2011, 05:21 AM
GJC what you mean by "you don't have the energy to go over it again" is that you don't have anything to prove my points as incorrect, never have you debated any of my points all you have ever said is that "i am a hater".. the bottom line is that you know i am correct with those points i have raised and like all Lewis fans you want those points erased from Lewis career profile and get annoyed by someone who brings up those points.... you made a statement against me and now that i addressed that statement you have "Chickened-Out"... so i ask you once again which of the accusations i made against Lewis for you do you disagree with, because these points are crucial to this topic when we try to debate who is the greater Tyson, Holyfield or Lewis.
So you are saying that I have never made any posts arguing your points?
Have you watched the video and now admit you made that bit up about the refereee being Canadian?

bojangles1987
04-11-2011, 08:36 AM
Vitali Klitschko vs Lennox Lewis

THE TRUTH

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2007/1118/box_g_lewis_klitschko_300.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/1008/box_lewis_klitschko_300.jpg

http://news.freebettingonline.co.uk/images/news/3324.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_N3c-aJBqj00/TAArOHOjeoI/AAAAAAAAABE/t563azS71TM/s1600/vitalik2003.jpg

Yeah, I agree.

GJC
04-11-2011, 09:57 AM
i was under the impression the guy was French unto you corrected me but it was no big deal... answer my question i put to you GJC which of these 8 points do you disagree with which you claim me me out to be a "Lewis Hater" and stop avoiding the issue like you have for the last few years.

1/. Lewis was stripped of his titles for avoiding the No1 contenders.
2/. Lewis beat Tyson when Tyson was a shell of his former self.
3/. Lewis v Bowe Olympic final was a bazaar stoppage after Bowe was warned 15 times by the referee
4/. Lewis turned down career high paydays in the 90s against Bowe in 95 & Tyson in 96
5/. Lewis was fortunate to get the verdict in his rematch with Holyfield
6/. Holyfield was past it when Lewis fought him in late 1999 and was on the downslide.
7/. Lewis got poleaxed by 2 journeymen fighters
8/. Lewis avoided Holmes 93, Moorer 94, Tyson 96, Bowe 95, Ruiz 00, Byrd 01, Vitali 03 and only fought fighters who was on the downside of their career and none who was at the top of their game.

Because if you don't answer then it is obvious you are trolling on this site and have no interest in debating the sport of boxing.
I will dig out my old posts answering these questions Sonny, in the mean time why not put up a poll on whether I troll the boxing site. You actually said he was French Canadian not French the inference was obvious. I assume we have done with the Tony Zale bit? I will reply in a day or so in the mean time please post your "evidence" to your 8 points.

CarlosG815
04-11-2011, 10:05 AM
I will dig out my old posts answering these questions Sonny, in the mean time why not put up a poll on whether I troll the boxing site. You actually said he was French Canadian not French the inference was obvious. I assume we have done with the Tony Zale bit? I will reply in a day or so in the mean time please post your "evidence" to your 8 points.

It is obvious as to why you will not respond to those 8 points and it is clear that it is because it is all true. You can not debate those 8 articles and if it were easy to do so, you would do it.

I'm sure you can find some way to twist facts but what's the point?

RubenSonny
04-11-2011, 11:39 AM
Greatness is pretty vague.

Greatness as in who was the best in their prime?

Greatness as in who had the best resume?

Resume...

Yeah, I agree.

:rofl::rofl:

GJC
04-11-2011, 01:32 PM
Tony Zale will be following this once you pluck-up the courage to make a fool of yourself by telling me which of the 8 points i have made for you that you disagree with and find to be false. you are now asking me for evidence when it is up to you to provide evidence to show the 8 points to be false. then i will completely expose you as the troll which you have always been by posting up a Tony Zale Topic.
Actually how it works is when you make a point which you say is a fact you supply those facts otherwise it is an opinion which you are of course entitled to. I will not respond today because I am busy I find it suprising that you deny that I have discussed these points with you before but when I have time I will search for the posts. This reply is for Carlos too who as he probably sits on your lap should be able to read it

BigStereotype
04-11-2011, 04:30 PM
It is obvious as to why you will not respond to those 8 points and it is clear that it is because it is all true. You can not debate those 8 articles and if it were easy to do so, you would do it.

I'm sure you can find some way to twist facts but what's the point?

WOW. You have got a lot of nerve calling me a lapdog...do you wash his cars and do his laundry too?

Anyway, I've got it

1. Holyfield
2. Lewis
3. Tyson

This is purely based on resume. I think that Tyson could have beaten both of them in his prime...maybe. Lewis was always going to be a hard matchup for him because he's good at keeping range. Tyson could maybe do some damage, but I think that Lewis would have squeaked the decision. Holyfield's defense was too porous to close the gap on Lewis. Holyfield had a gigantic chin and heart but you eat too many of those right hands and it's not a question of heart. You're put to sleep. But Lewis beat just about everyone other than Bowe in his time, gotta give him the nod. And no, sonny, I'm not going to argue this with you. I just wanted to get my two cents in, not prove to the world what a fraud Lennox is.

pacquia0
04-11-2011, 05:32 PM
WOW. You have got a lot of nerve calling me a lapdog...do you wash his cars and do his laundry too?

Anyway, I've got it

1. Holyfield
2. Lewis
3. Tyson

This is purely based on resume. I think that Tyson could have beaten both of them in his prime...maybe. Lewis was always going to be a hard matchup for him because he's good at keeping range. Tyson could maybe do some damage, but I think that Lewis would have squeaked the decision. Holyfield's defense was too porous to close the gap on Lewis. Holyfield had a gigantic chin and heart but you eat too many of those right hands and it's not a question of heart. You're put to sleep. But Lewis beat just about everyone other than Bowe in his time, gotta give him the nod. And no, sonny, I'm not going to argue this with you. I just wanted to get my two cents in, not prove to the world what a fraud Lennox is.

How has lewis got a better resume than Tyson?

How is Lewis going to keep Tyson at range? when he couldnt even do that with Mcall or Rahman. Lewis doesnt have the jab of Holmes or Spinks and they both werent able to keep Tyson at range and squeek a decison.

How is Lewis going to put a prime Holyfield to sleep? when he didnt come close to putting a shot Holyfield to sleep. Holyfield in his prime was never stopped. Holyfield went to war with Bowe 2x without getting stopped. Even in their 3rd fight where Holyfield was in no condition to fight was able to close that gap on Bowe and almost KO him.

How did Lewis beat just about everyone?

BigStereotype
04-11-2011, 05:40 PM
How has lewis got a better resume than Tyson?

How is Lewis going to keep Tyson at range? when he couldnt even do that with Mcall or Rahman. Lewis doesnt have the jab of Holmes or Spinks and they both werent able to keep Tyson at range and squeek a decison.

How is Lewis going to put a prime Holyfield to sleep? when he didnt come close to putting a shot Holyfield to sleep. Holyfield in his prime was never stopped. Holyfield went to war with Bowe 2x without getting stopped. Even in their 3rd fight where Holyfield was in no condition to fight was able to close that gap on Bowe and almost KO him.

How did Lewis beat just about everyone?

The only one I'm really interested in debating is Lewis-Holyfield. The rest are so ****ing played out. But you're right, maybe Holyfield wouldn't get put to sleep. I thought that prime Holyfield would be more interested in brawling and out-manning Lewis than past-it Holyfield who was much more of a spoiler type fighter. I still think that. But I may have underestimated his chin just a bit, you're right. Still think Lewis wins it on clean, effective punching.

CarlosG815
04-11-2011, 06:28 PM
How has lewis got a better resume than Tyson?

How is Lewis going to keep Tyson at range? when he couldnt even do that with Mcall or Rahman. Lewis doesnt have the jab of Holmes or Spinks and they both werent able to keep Tyson at range and squeek a decison.

How is Lewis going to put a prime Holyfield to sleep? when he didnt come close to putting a shot Holyfield to sleep. Holyfield in his prime was never stopped. Holyfield went to war with Bowe 2x without getting stopped. Even in their 3rd fight where Holyfield was in no condition to fight was able to close that gap on Bowe and almost KO him.

How did Lewis beat just about everyone?

Don't even bother, the kid talks out of his ass every time he open's his mouth. Go and read about his take on the legendary Jack Dempsey in the fantasy fights section for all you need to know about his opinion or what he could possibly be seeing while he is "watching boxing" as he calls it.

CarlosG815
04-11-2011, 06:34 PM
WOW. You have got a lot of nerve calling me a lapdog...do you wash his cars and do his laundry too?

Anyway, I've got it

1. Holyfield
2. Lewis
3. Tyson

This is purely based on resume. I think that Tyson could have beaten both of them in his prime...maybe. Lewis was always going to be a hard matchup for him because he's good at keeping range. Tyson could maybe do some damage, but I think that Lewis would have squeaked the decision. Holyfield's defense was too porous to close the gap on Lewis. Holyfield had a gigantic chin and heart but you eat too many of those right hands and it's not a question of heart. You're put to sleep. But Lewis beat just about everyone other than Bowe in his time, gotta give him the nod. And no, sonny, I'm not going to argue this with you. I just wanted to get my two cents in, not prove to the world what a fraud Lennox is.

By what are you basing this on? Didn't you learn your lesson before when you tried to claim it had something to do with Sonny that I said Jack Dempsey would beat Sonny Liston, then you said you didn't know any sources who claimed Dempsey to be the greatest they ever saw aside from "My idol Sonny" when it was not the case at all?

So because I know that Lennox avoided all top contenders and never fought a top name in the prime of their career, I am a lapdog? Get a clue, douchebag, now you are just trying to take any cheap shot that you can toward me but the problem is that it is not going to work because the 8 facts that he listed cannot be disputed and that is why GJC has chosen not to respond but has made several other responses.

It would be like asking me:

Did Mike Tyson not have a terribly short prime of 3-5 years?

The difference is, even though I am a fan of Tyson, I can admit that he had shortcomings and his short prime was one, whereas these Lennox Lewis lovers can not admit to any of his faults and they refuse to see what is right in front of them because for whatever reason they love him.

I love how you talk about "resume" like you would even begin to know what warrants a good one or not. You're a joke, kid, and you don't know anything of Tyson or Lewis' career. I'll go out on a limb and guess that you could tell me as much about Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield as you could about Dempsey, and as you said "I don't know of any sources who blah blah about Dempsey" when there are many, which shows how limited your knowledge is of anything that you speak about.

edit: And I also like how you show me another example of how you jump on the bandwagon of the order of which fighters were chosen and how you have jumped on the bandwagon to be agreeable with the majority of those in this thread who will protect Lewis yet attack Sonnyboy and me and I know that the reason is you are simply on the bandwagon with the general consensus. I know this because I know that you do not have the knowledge to come to that conclusion on your own so you will read others opinions and subscribe to the one with the most followers.

CarlosG815
04-11-2011, 06:48 PM
I am in Michigan, and Sonny is in the UK, I would have to had left last week to get his dry cleaning on time, so we do have time to debate. Or were you trying to be funny? Nice try. You tell jokes about as well as you talk boxing.

BigStereotype
04-11-2011, 06:50 PM
I am in Michigan, and Sonny is in the UK, I would have to had left last week to get his dry cleaning on time, so we do have time to debate. Or were you trying to be funny? Nice try. You tell jokes about as well as you talk boxing.

Clock is ticking! Those suits aren't going to press themselves!

Ziggy Stardust
04-11-2011, 07:58 PM
:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

ROSS CALIFORNIA
04-12-2011, 02:20 AM
i like a peak Tyson over damn near anybody including these two but thats just me.

I realise Lewis and Holyfield have perhaps left a better body of work behind but on his very best night i like Tyson to stop both of em

Holyfield gets greatness points for his excellence as a Cruiser too

Lewis imo is the lesser fighter of the three but may actually have the best HW resume

I couldn't have said it better. You are absolutely right.

GJC
04-22-2011, 10:26 AM
Sonny I'm sorry for the delay in answering your latest round of questions re Lewis but better late than never:

1/. Lewis was stripped of his titles for avoiding the No1 contenders.
I'm assuming this is the usual Ruiz, Byrd, Vitali stuff? Sonny you seem to know the sport but not the game. To win an undisputed title is difficult to defend it for any length of time is near impossible. Look at the current top 10s for any weight IBF,WBC,WBA. Chances are you'll find 25 different fighters in those 3 different top tens with 3 different number ones. Ruiz got placed as number one by Don King with zero justification, fight wouldn't have drawn flies Lewis opted out. Byrd got placed at number one by Don King with slightly more justification, again the fight wouldn't have drawn flies Lewis opted out. Lewis reitired instead of re-matching Vitali, given his last performance he retired at the same time. OK he didn't retire straight away after the Vitali fight and probably let negotiations drag on but most champions who retired with the belt didn't retire within 6 months of their last fight. So Lewis liked being introduced as HW champion and let it drag on a bit? He can join Ali, Rocky and Louis in that.

2/. Lewis beat Tyson when Tyson was a shell of his former self.

Undoubtedly but remember Tyson was number one contender wasn't he? :)
Biggest money fight for Lewis, he'd been after Tyson for years, why not?
It was in Tyson's hans to fight Lewis years before but he didn't want to.

3/. Lewis v Bowe Olympic final was a bazaar stoppage after Bowe was warned 15 times by the referee

It was a strange fight, why did you need to lie about the nationality of the referee?

4/. Lewis turned down career high paydays in the 90s against Bowe in 95 & Tyson in 96

The Bowe offer is based on that self serving video you post from Bowe trying to justify throwing the belt in the bin
Lewis was happy to fight Bowe winner takes all in 93
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=eHhiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QXcNAAAAIBAJ&pg=4611,1790171&dq=lennox+lewis+riddick+bowe&hl=en


Tyson was offered $40 million to fight Lewis by Lewis camp if you believe what you read

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/1996/05/12/1996-05-12_lennox_ready-made_for_tyson.html


5/. Lewis was fortunate to get the verdict in his rematch with Holyfield
I thought Lewis fought a lazy fight and Holy raised his game but still thought Lewis won by a couple of rounds.


6/. Holyfield was past it when Lewis fought him in late 1999 and was on the downslide.

1) Holy held the titles so what was Lewis meant to do, stand aside until he retired?
2) Lewis had been trying to get Holy in the ring for some time.
3) Holy had his 3 best wins according to many against Tyson and Moorer after he was on the downside.
4) He was a credible poopoent for Ruiz in 3 fights after Lewis though?


7/. Lewis got poleaxed by 2 journeymen fighters

Agreed and those KO's greatly effect his legacy


8/. Lewis avoided Holmes 93, Moorer 94, Tyson 96, Bowe 95, Ruiz 00, Byrd 01, Vitali 03 and only fought fighters who was on the downside of their career and none who was at the top of their game.

Holmes was an old man, Moorer ducked Lewis if anything, the others i've covered.
THe other opponents you discredit by making Lewis into some kind of fortune teller. Lewis knew Morrison had HIV before Morrison did, He knew Tua would go on a strange diet, he knew Golota would go off his rocker before the fight etc etc.