View Full Version : Prime Holyfeild vs. Current Wlad


boxingking500
03-28-2011, 04:58 PM
who takes it......

SCtrojansbaby
03-28-2011, 05:22 PM
Style wise this is a terrible matchup for Evander. Wlad is like a more powerful Riddick Bowe. I think Holyfield would take Vitali though

The_Demon
03-28-2011, 05:47 PM
A prime Holyfield would beat any version of Wlad,he would bring too much heat and get inside more often than not ripping him with wicked combinations,Holy at his best was on another level too the guys around today

TBear
03-28-2011, 05:54 PM
A prime Holifield had much faster feet and hands. I think he would have too much heart to lose to Wlad. Sooner or later he would test Klitschko's heart, endurance, and chin.

REDRUM619
03-28-2011, 06:00 PM
evander would get on the inside with relentless pressure

SCtrojansbaby
03-28-2011, 06:16 PM
How is Holyfield getting inside? Outside of the old Larry Holmes Holyfield always had a lot of trouble getting inside on big heavyweights and I would argue none of those big guys has the one hit KO power Wlad does. I think he can beat Vitali who is far more willing to engage and has a lot less power

The_Demon
03-28-2011, 06:17 PM
How is Holyfield getting inside? Outside of the old Larry Holmes Holyfield always had a lot of trouble getting inside on big heavyweights and I would argue none of those big guys has the one hit KO power Wlad does.

Foreman?

Wlad has faced nobody as good as a prime holyfield,he is faster and generally better in EVERY way than any of wlads opponents

SCtrojansbaby
03-28-2011, 06:32 PM
Foreman?

Wlad has faced nobody as good as a prime holyfield,he is faster and generally better in EVERY way than any of wlads opponents


That is great but it doesn't mean he would beat Wlad. Fights are about styles not resumes. Wlad has the style that always gave holyfield trouble and has one hit KO power to boot.

Also Chris Byrd is just as fast as Holyfield

RubenSonny
03-28-2011, 06:44 PM
Style wise this is a terrible matchup for Evander. Wlad is like a more powerful Riddick Bowe. I think Holyfield would take Vitali though

A key element to Bowes victory was his excellence on the inside - a distance which Holy loved to fight at and the logical key to victory against a big man (its usually assumed they would lack on the inside) like Bowe, however due to Bowes effectiveness there, he didn't have the obvious advantage making Bowe an extremely difficult style match-up for him. Wlad has shown nothing on the inside, and that would be were Holy would be most effective, sure it would be pretty difficult to actually get there, but someone the calibre of Holy can get passed that jab and put some damage down. I think Holy would win a pretty hard fought but clear decision say 8-4, 9-3 type fight maybe a late stoppage.

SCtrojansbaby
03-28-2011, 06:53 PM
A key element to Bowes victory was his excellence on the inside - a distance which Holy loved to fight at and the logical key to victory against a big man (its usually assumed they would lack on the inside) like Bowe, however due to Bowes effectiveness there, he didn't have the obvious advantage making Bowe an extremely difficult style match-up for him. Wlad has shown nothing on the inside, and that would be were Holy would be most effective, sure it would be pretty difficult to actually get there, but someone the calibre of Holy can get passed that jab and put some damage down. I think Holy would win a pretty hard fought but clear decision say 8-4, 9-3 type fight maybe a late stoppage.


i think Bowe's effectiveness on the inside was due to Holyfield having to take risk just to get in. Bowe baited him..

NChristo
03-28-2011, 06:56 PM
Style wise this is a terrible matchup for Evander. Wlad is like a more powerful Riddick Bowe. I think Holyfield would take Vitali though

Wouldn't say it was like the Bowe match up, Bowe was a mid-range and inside boxer who could also box but got dragged to easily into a brawl, also Bowe's uppercut is one of Bowe's best weapons and is what damaged Holy the most.

Wlad is an outside boxer / controls the distance, when / if someone can get on the inside he ties them up and he rarely throws an uppercut, also he's a smarter boxer then Bowe.
Poor comparison.

Wlad has faced nobody as good as a prime holyfield,he is faster and generally better in EVERY way than any of wlads opponents

Byrd has him on D, that's it though I think ?.


Fight is I'd say 60 / 40 in Holy's favor, it depends on if Wlad can control the pace and distance of the fight of course, Holy's defense is not the greatest which would cause him trouble seeing as Wlad is such a huge puncher but I could see him out hustling Wlad and 'if' he can successfully get on the inside he can get some damage done.

Main question is could Wlad keep up with Holy's pace if he can't control it himself ?, the other main question obviously being could Holy have success on the inside and stop Wlad tying him up.

:dunno:

Holtol
03-28-2011, 07:08 PM
Holfield wins, most likely knocks out Wladimir at some point during the fight. Wladimir losing to Holfield is nothing to be ashamed of, I think Holfield is the best fighter since the 80s. Exsept for Bowe's short prime.

IronDanHamza
03-28-2011, 07:13 PM
I don't see how Wlad beats Holyfield.

I can't see how Wlad will consistently keep Holyfield from getting inside. Holyfield's defense is also underrated IMO.

Like NChristo nicely put it it's all down to if Wlad could control the pace. Something I can't see him doing.

SCtrojansbaby
03-28-2011, 07:32 PM
Bowe/Wlad is a poor comparison but i was just trying to point out the problems they pose for Holyfield(size and reach) and in addition to that Wlad has one hit KO power.

I just don't see how you can have Holyfield winning when Wlad presents the exact matchup the gave Holyfield all his problems and brings power to the table that Holyfield only tasted against Moorer.

Holtol
03-28-2011, 08:19 PM
Bowe/Wlad is a poor comparison but i was just trying to point out the problems they pose for Holyfield(size and reach) and in addition to that Wlad has one hit KO power.

I just don't see how you can have Holyfield winning when Wlad presents the exact matchup the gave Holyfield all his problems and brings power to the table that Holyfield only tasted against Moorer.

Wlad has never fought a boxer close to as good as Holfield. You seriously overrate Wladimir and underrate Holyfield I was looking at your top fighters since the 70s. Which I think was a good attempted at a list, at least you tryed and obviously put some effort into it, but I don't know how you could have Wladimir so high and Holyfield so low. Holyfield would make a mess of Wladimir, Wladimir can't take the kind of heat that Holyfield can bring.

SCtrojansbaby
03-28-2011, 08:25 PM
Wlad has never fought a boxer close to as good as Holfield. You seriously overrate Wladimir and underrate Holyfield I was looking at your top fighters since the 70s. Which I think was a good attempted at a list, at least you tryed and obviously put some effort into it, but I don't know how you could have Wladimir so high and Holyfield so low. Holyfield would make a mess of Wladimir, Wladimir can't take the kind of heat that Holyfield can bring.


Its a simple case of one guy presenting the exact style that gives the other big trouble. I wouldn't argue at all if you had Holyfield ranked higher on your list or whatever but we are talking about a matchup and Wlad is the worst possible of matchup for Holyfield.

The_Demon
03-28-2011, 08:30 PM
That is great but it doesn't mean he would beat Wlad. Fights are about styles not resumes. Wlad has the style that always gave holyfield trouble and has one hit KO power to boot.

Also Chris Byrd is just as fast as Holyfield

No it isnt about resume,but if i look at wlads i see knockout losses too fighters that are inferior too Holyfield,and please dont compare an old Byrd too a prime Holyfield,Evander had it all and then some and wlad has never dealt with anybody as good as him with all the tools he does,you are really missing the point

Holtol
03-28-2011, 08:31 PM
Its a simple case of one guy presenting the exact style that gives the other big trouble. I wouldn't argue at all if you had Holyfield ranked higher on your list or whatever but we are talking about a matchup and Wlad is the worst possible of matchup for Holyfield.

I disagree a well past it Holyfield damaged from many wars, In my mind beat Lewis in their second fight. I think Wladimir and Lewis are close in style and size. Exsept I think Lewis is just a little bit better. Holyfield in prime he beats Lewis and Wladimir.

Check_hooks
03-28-2011, 08:32 PM
Wlad wins this fight easy. Holyfield won't be able to get past Wlads jab often and if he does all Wlad has to do in clinch and then repeat.

Wlad by KO.

And don't forget that Holyfield is a roid user.

NChristo
03-28-2011, 08:36 PM
And don't forget that Holyfield is a roid user.

What has that got to do with how they match up h2h exactly ?.

It effects his legacy but that is not what we are talking about is it, Thread says prime Holyfield so we are using the Holy from his prime years regardless of if he was on roids or not.

The_Demon
03-28-2011, 08:38 PM
Wlad wins this fight easy. Holyfield won't be able to get past Wlads jab often and if he does all Wlad has to do in clinch and then repeat.

Wlad by KO.

And don't forget that Holyfield is a roid user.

Wlad wins easy?

Nobody beats a prime Holyfield easily,you really should watch a bit more of the guy,seriously you might learn something

SCtrojansbaby
03-28-2011, 08:38 PM
I disagree a well past it Holyfield damaged from many wars, In my mind beat Lewis in their second fight. I think Wladimir and Lewis are close in style and size. Exsept I think Lewis is just a little bit better. Holyfield in prime he beats Lewis and Wladimir.


Now that is interesting. I don't think I have ever heard anybody say they thought Holyfield beat Lewis that is your opinion.

Holtol
03-28-2011, 08:45 PM
Now that is interesting. I don't think I have ever heard anybody say they thought Holyfield beat Lewis that is your opinion.

Look at the most recent thread about Holyfield vs Lewis. Many posters think that Holyfield won the second fight. And don't forget Holyfield was past his prime at that point. Holyfield at his best had more than enough to handle the likes of Lewis. Wladimir stands little to no chance.

Scott9945
03-28-2011, 09:03 PM
Now that is interesting. I don't think I have ever heard anybody say they thought Holyfield beat Lewis that is your opinion.

Many people thought Holyfield deserved the decision in the second fight (not me though).

As for this thread, I actually think (prime) Holyfield is a bad matchup for Wladimir. Conversely, I think Vitali would be a bad matchup for Evander.

SCtrojansbaby
03-28-2011, 09:26 PM
Many people thought Holyfield deserved the decision in the second fight (not me though).

As for this thread, I actually think (prime) Holyfield is a bad matchup for Wladimir. Conversely, I think Vitali would be a bad matchup for Evander.

That is interesting. Vitali is the chin/fighter and Wlad is the power/boxer I think engaging with Holyfield is a disaster for almost anybody.

New England
03-28-2011, 09:45 PM
the key to beating wlad:

getting past the jab and hitting him on the chin


holyfield had the head movement and pace to get past the kind of work wlad would put foreward consistently.


holyfield could take the shots that wlad offered, but he certainly wouldnt just walk right through them.
and if he became hurt he could always take time to recover, as wlad's not a monsterous finisher


i think evander gets going quicker than any contemporary wlad opponent and probably begins to drop him in the second half of the fight

once the begginning of the end started it would be lights out wladimir.

bojangles1987
03-28-2011, 09:50 PM
Holyfield hit hard but not hard enough to stop Wlad IMO. He would win an clear decision though.

Scott9945
03-28-2011, 10:13 PM
That is interesting. Vitali is the chin/fighter and Wlad is the power/boxer I think engaging with Holyfield is a disaster for almost anybody.

My reasoning is that Holy would force Wlad to trade with him, which Klitschko is absolutely uncomfortable with. If Wlad is able to keep him off with his jab it would be a whole different story.

Vitali is more awkward than his brother. He always dictates the pace and distance of his fights. His chin would allow him to hold up when Holyfield is able to tag him. Eventually Vitali's size and strength would wear him down enough to make him just want to go the distance.

Steak
03-28-2011, 11:19 PM
My reasoning is that Holy would force Wlad to trade with him, which Klitschko is absolutely uncomfortable with. If Wlad is able to keep him off with his jab it would be a whole different story.

Vitali is more awkward than his brother. He always dictates the pace and distance of his fights. His chin would allow him to hold up when Holyfield is able to tag him. Eventually Vitali's size and strength would wear him down enough to make him just want to go the distance.
I dont know. Vitali was never really someone to lean all over the opponent and wear them down. and most his defense simply consists of leaning backwards and hoping for the best.

While Wladimir is the more fragile of the two, he also hits harder and has a better jab, and leans all over his opponent when they try to fight at close range. I think that would give Holyfield a lot more trouble than Vitali. The fact that Vitali rarely clinches would actually be better for Holyfield, who was a pretty damn good combination puncher when opponents let him get off.

Ziggy Stardust
03-28-2011, 11:37 PM
Holyfield hit hard but not hard enough to stop Wlad IMO. He would win an clear decision though.

You don't have to be a murderous puncher to stop Wlad (see Ross Purrity).

Poet

SCtrojansbaby
03-29-2011, 12:25 AM
You don't have to be a murderous puncher to stop Wlad (see Ross Purrity).

Poet


Wlad was 22 and was about 20 pounds smaller then he was in his prime when that happened

Ziggy Stardust
03-29-2011, 01:25 AM
Wlad was 22 and was about 20 pounds smaller then he was in his prime when that happened

Hey Einstein, those 20 pounds weren't added to his chin :jerk0ff9:

SCtrojansbaby
03-29-2011, 01:35 AM
Hey Einstein, those 20 pounds weren't added to his chin :jerk0ff9:


Yeah because a fighters punch resistance never gets better when you get bigger and stronger.

I am not denying that Wlad has a bad chin everybody knows that but come on Wlad completely transformed as a fighter since he got knocked out by Purity.

smh I don't know why I am trying to be rational with you

cooper5
03-29-2011, 01:55 AM
If a prime Holyfield was fighting today and wanted to fight Wlad, he'd be redirected to Vitali.

Punchers in this line!
Boxers in this line!

That is another reason the two of them as champions hurt the others chance at greatness. They have been match by their strengths.

New England
03-29-2011, 09:19 AM
Hey Einstein, those 20 pounds weren't added to his chin :jerk0ff9:




its called manstrength. a 22 year old wladimir klitschko was not in the manstrength years yet. he was still a boy, for lack of a better term.


HW's generally dont peak physically until their late 20's and early 30's, especially the ones with length, in terms of their physical strength, punching power
it takes time to fill out a frame like wladimir
lennox lewis
ali



this includes their ability to take a punch biologically (what we call a chin,) not to mention the mental aspect of boxing and dealing with a guy who is trying to take your head off



why do you think guys have trouble being effective punchers as they move up in weight?
the guys get bigger!



now obviously, an extra 25 lbs of man, and 10 years to mature, isn't going to turn a chinny wladimir into iron chinned vitali


but it certainly helps.

i garantee wladimir takes a better shot today (in his physical prime,) than he did when he was 22 and still a boy.

anybody who knows a goddamn thing about boxing will back me up.





i really have a hard time believing you dont get this.

do you go to fights?
have you ever seen a teenager fight?
have you ever seen a grown man fight?

Scott9945
03-29-2011, 10:11 AM
its called manstrength. a 22 year old wladimir klitschko was not in the manstrength years yet. he was still a boy, for lack of a better term.


HW's generally dont peak physically until their late 20's and early 30's, especially the ones with length, in terms of their physical strength, punching power
it takes time to fill out a frame like wladimir
lennox lewis
ali



this includes their ability to take a punch biologically (what we call a chin,) not to mention the mental aspect of boxing and dealing with a guy who is trying to take your head off



why do you think guys have trouble being effective punchers as they move up in weight?
the guys get bigger!



now obviously, an extra 25 lbs of man, and 10 years to mature, isn't going to turn a chinny wladimir into iron chinned vitali


but it certainly helps.

i garantee wladimir takes a better shot today (in his physical prime,) than he did when he was 22 and still a boy.

anybody who knows a goddamn thing about boxing will back me up.





i really have a hard time believing you dont get this.

do you go to fights?
have you ever seen a teenager fight?
have you ever seen a grown man fight?


I've seen the Purrity-Wladimir fight. The loss had nothing to do with chin or power. Klitschko simply set too fast a pace and totally ran out of gas. That isn't an excuse, just the right place to point the finger.

Jim Jeffries
03-29-2011, 10:33 AM
I've seen the Purrity-Wladimir fight. The loss had nothing to do with chin or power. Klitschko simply set too fast a pace and totally ran out of gas. That isn't an excuse, just the right place to point the finger.

Having only been 8 rounds once, never more, and over half his fights ending in the first 2 rounds had a lot to do with it IMO. Had it not been for some chump title (and therefore a 12 rounder,) Purrity would not being enjoying his 5 seconds of fame, it'd have been a fairly straightforward Wlad UD10 (Ross becoming the second guy in 25 fights to last the distance.)

Wlad's chin isn't the greatest, but he never gets hit these days. His current style is rarely pretty, but it is damn effective. Granted Holyfield is far superior to anyone he's been fighting, which is why I'd give him the edge. But I wouldn't bet the house on it.

New England
03-29-2011, 11:05 AM
I've seen the Purrity-Wladimir fight. The loss had nothing to do with chin or power. Klitschko simply set too fast a pace and totally ran out of gas. That isn't an excuse, just the right place to point the finger.


want a pat on the back?
or are you implying that i havnt seen wladimir's losing fights?


wladimir was 22. both in terms of the maturation process his boxing, and physically. he was Immature.



my post was in response to what the "poet" said about 25 lbs (and many years of growth) not helping somebody's chin

"Hey Einstein, those 20 pounds weren't added to his chin :jerk0ff9 "


which is laughable.

Ziggy Stardust
03-29-2011, 12:36 PM
Yeah because a fighters punch resistance never gets better when you get bigger and stronger.

I am not denying that Wlad has a bad chin everybody knows that but come on Wlad completely transformed as a fighter since he got knocked out by Purity.

smh I don't know why I am trying to be rational with you

I've already explained the biological reasons for this to you once before so I suggest you use the "search" button as I'm not into issuing reruns to idiots that think Virgil Hill is a better fighter than Pernell Whitaker.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
03-29-2011, 12:51 PM
its called manstrength. a 22 year old wladimir klitschko was not in the manstrength years yet. he was still a boy, for lack of a better term.

HW's generally dont peak physically until their late 20's and early 30's, especially the ones with length, in terms of their physical strength, punching power
it takes time to fill out a frame like wladimir
lennox lewis
ali

this includes their ability to take a punch biologically (what we call a chin,) not to mention the mental aspect of boxing and dealing with a guy who is trying to take your head off

why do you think guys have trouble being effective punchers as they move up in weight?
the guys get bigger!

but it certainly helps.

i garantee wladimir takes a better shot today (in his physical prime,) than he did when he was 22 and still a boy.

anybody who knows a goddamn thing about boxing will back me up.

i really have a hard time believing you dont get this.

do you go to fights?
have you ever seen a teenager fight?
have you ever seen a grown man fight?

This is filler as you made my point for me when you wrote this:

now obviously, an extra 25 lbs of man, and 10 years to mature, isn't going to turn a chinny wladimir into iron chinned vitali

A fighter's chin is something they're either born with or they aren't. Either they have it or they don't. It isn't something you can go out and get or work on to develope. Punch resistance is about the ability to absorb an accumulation of punishment rather than the ability to take a shot and not have your lights put out. Apples and oranges.

In anycase all this misses the larger point of "You don't need to be huge puncher to stop Wlad". The man has terrible stamina (see the first Brewster fight) that he masks with an extremely low punch output. He gets away with it because he's been fighting low caliber detritus. He isn't beating Holyfield by throwing 10 punches a round and if he picks up the pace he gasses and gets taken out. Pure and simple.

Poet

Jim Jeffries
03-29-2011, 01:16 PM
I don't have punch stats for all of Wlad's fights, but since we're talking about current Wlad, here they are for his last one. As you can see, he threw 499 punches in less than 10 rounds, for an average of 50 or so. And his high punch output of 71 came in round 7, so I wouldn't exactly call his stamina dreadful.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/view.php?pg=wladimir-klitschko-samuel-peter-rematch

Evander isn't going to knock out Wlad with a single punch, but he could force the pace to a point where Wlad does tire, and take him out then. I just don't think this is an easy fight for either guy.

New England
03-29-2011, 02:19 PM
This is filler as you made my point for me when you wrote this:



A fighter's chin is something they're either born with or they aren't. Either they have it or they don't. It isn't something you can go out and get or work on to develope. Punch resistance is about the ability to absorb an accumulation of punishment rather than the ability to take a shot and not have your lights put out. Apples and oranges.

In anycase all this misses the larger point of "You don't need to be huge puncher to stop Wlad". The man has terrible stamina (see the first Brewster fight) that he masks with an extremely low punch output. He gets away with it because he's been fighting low caliber detritus. He isn't beating Holyfield by throwing 10 punches a round and if he picks up the pace he gasses and gets taken out. Pure and simple.

Poet



wlad throws a lot of punches for a modern HW.

you clearly just dont watch boxing.
the cat is out of the bag on that.



a fighter is not "Born with his chin"
he might be born with the blueprint of his chin
but he's got to grow into the man years without taking punishment to really take the best shots he can take.
or else he's still a boy when he's taking the punches (which wladimir was against purrity)
and he's going to take a punch like a boy.


the chin does develop
it gets better with age as the body matures and goes from boy to man.



but alas, i shouldn't expect you to listen to anything informed



why dont you "see the first brewster fight"
and look at all of the energy wladimir wasted flying out of the gate like a bat out of hell.


he's probably the best conditioned athlete in the division
one of the best in the sport.


he has tremendous stamina.

Holtol
03-29-2011, 04:32 PM
Wladimir can not fight at a high tempo. He may throw 50 punches or more a round sometimes. But they are at a pace to his likeing. Its a lot diffrent when a higher pace is being forced on him. Another thing you can't train besides chin and power is endurance. Endurance is one of the most important things there is. You can make your endurance better with cardio training but after a couple years a person reaches their peak. You can not train a man to run 10 kilometers in under 30 minituts those people are just born that way.

Wladimir imo is simply boxing better which is helping him conserve energy and get hit less. His physical abilitys are likely very similar or in decline to what they once were, he just hides his weaknesses better these days. Wlad is most likely physicaly decling at this stage and is just making up for it with better boxing. Anyone who thinks people are more physicaly able in their mid 30s compared to their mid 20s, most likely has not reached the age of 30.

young_robbed
03-29-2011, 04:34 PM
PLEASE... Holyfield knocks him out in 10 rounds man

SCtrojansbaby
03-29-2011, 04:43 PM
Wlad's prime was circa Calvin Brock, Brewster II.

Ziggy Stardust
03-29-2011, 07:29 PM
wlad throws a lot of punches for a modern HW.

you clearly just dont watch boxing.
the cat is out of the bag on that.

a fighter is not "Born with his chin"
he might be born with the blueprint of his chin
but he's got to grow into the man years without taking punishment to really take the best shots he can take.
or else he's still a boy when he's taking the punches (which wladimir was against purrity)
and he's going to take a punch like a boy.

the chin does develop
it gets better with age as the body matures and goes from boy to man.

but alas, i shouldn't expect you to listen to anything informed

why dont you "see the first brewster fight"
and look at all of the energy wladimir wasted flying out of the gate like a bat out of hell.

he's probably the best conditioned athlete in the division
one of the best in the sport.

he has tremendous stamina.

Dude. Wlad gassed the fvck out in the first Brewster fight. That doesn't speak to having "tremendous" stamina. Like everything else it proves you don't know what the fvck you're talking about. Kind of like you thinking a chinless fvck will go out and get one somewhere down the line. BTW, are you REALLY holding up the fat poorly condition jokes that are polluting the current Heavyweight as bench marks for stamina? :hahahaha9: You really ARE retarded aren't you? :jerk0ff9:

Seriously dude. I've watched more boxing in any given ten year span of my life then you'll have watched by the time they shovel dirt over you so give it up Junior :cool9:

Poet

Steak
03-29-2011, 08:59 PM
wow, I never thought Id hear that Wladimir had great stamina, even from a Klitschko fan.

Im sure hes a good athlete and everything, but theres no doubt he runs out of stamina quickly. probably because he still isnt very relaxed in the ring.

Scott9945
03-29-2011, 09:13 PM
wow, I never thought Id hear that Wladimir had great stamina, even from a Klitschko fan.

Im sure hes a good athlete and everything, but theres no doubt he runs out of stamina quickly. probably because he still isnt very relaxed in the ring.


Stamina is the weakest part of Wladimir's game, not his chin like is popularly believed. I'm not saying his chin is good, but if it wasn't for stamina issues he would only have one loss in his career. His other two losses came when he was literally too exhausted to stand up.

Scott9945
03-29-2011, 09:16 PM
Anyone who thinks people are more physicaly able in their mid 30s compared to their mid 20s, most likely has not reached the age of 30.

Definitely. You get smarter as you get older, but you don't get better reflexes.

New England
03-29-2011, 10:36 PM
wow, I never thought Id hear that Wladimir had great stamina, even from a Klitschko fan.

Im sure hes a good athlete and everything, but theres no doubt he runs out of stamina quickly. probably because he still isnt very relaxed in the ring.


i'm not really a wladimir fan, if it was me you are talking about


he's a gigantic man.

he's going to run out of gas quickly if he goes too hard
that's a question of being economical with a giganitic body, and not his conditioning.



he's as well conditioned an athlete there is in the division right now.
he's never going to be able to throw 100 punches in a round

New England
03-29-2011, 10:51 PM
Dude. Wlad gassed the fvck out in the first Brewster fight. That doesn't speak to having "tremendous" stamina. Like everything else it proves you don't know what the fvck you're talking about. Kind of like you thinking a chinless fvck will go out and get one somewhere down the line. BTW, are you REALLY holding up the fat poorly condition jokes that are polluting the current Heavyweight as bench marks for stamina? :hahahaha9: You really ARE retarded aren't you? :jerk0ff9:

Seriously dude. I've watched more boxing in any given ten year span of my life then you'll have watched by the time they shovel dirt over you so give it up Junior :cool9:

Poet



he gassed out because he's a gigantic man who wasnt economical with his body
that's not a performance that dooms him to a career with a "stamina problem"


he's a supremely conditioned,
world class, year round athlete. there arent many left in boxing, nevermind in the division.


he's the best in the division in terms of his conditioning.


steward has pulled his conditioning back because he was overtrained.



wladimir lost to brewster because of a horrible gameplan

he raged out of his corner


his recent performances (assuming you watch them) are evidence aplenty that he doesnt suffere from an inherent "stamina problem"



hit him on the chin, and it's going out the door anyway,
if you're evander holyfield.

he's not as gifted an athlete as holyfield in terms of the engine he was given to produce his work
and if it's possible evander worked harder in the gym





and a chin obviously develops throughout the later stages of boyhood into manhood.
get off your couch and watch a fight card from top to bottom
and tell me the boys take the punches as well as the grown men

RFPROBOX
03-29-2011, 10:58 PM
who takes it......

I could see wladimir using evanders head as a speed bag with his left jab. But it's more likely that evander the billy goat would tire Klitschko with his pacing. I would pick Holyfield. he has some important advantages. It's hard to bet against him. But I would root for wladimir all the way.

New England
03-29-2011, 10:59 PM
Definitely. You get smarter as you get older, but you don't get better reflexes.




the consensus physical prime of a big man in boxing is around 30, especially today.


reflexes in boxing generally have much more to do with the milage than age. obviously they arent getting better with age
and they arent going to be better on average for the older fighters. but reflexes are almost entirely dictated by the punches taken. floyd mayweather is no spring chicken, and he's still one of the sharpest fighters on the planet once he's warmed up


notice how you dont see your HW prospects (how few there are) moving quickly through the division (like say a bantamweight might)


smaller men peak at a younger age
big men need time to fill out, get stronger
they peak later in life.


you guys should all know this stuff (teddy atlas 101,) and many of you do.
i dont know why i've got to repeat it.


some bull**** comign from some guy typing in purple isnt going to make me change my stance on some of the pillars of boxing.

Ziggy Stardust
03-30-2011, 12:22 AM
some bull**** comign from some guy typing in purple isnt going to make me change my stance on some of the pillars of boxing.

Seriously dude, it's pretty clear you aren't the sharpest pillar in the Parthenon. You're one of the LEAST knowledgable people on this site.....and that's saying something considering all the retards running around NSB. Seriously, you need to think about following another sport since it's pretty obvious boxing "ain't your thang".

Poet

Holtol
03-30-2011, 01:20 AM
the consensus physical prime of a big man in boxing is around 30, especially today.


reflexes in boxing generally have much more to do with the milage than age. obviously they arent getting better with age
and they arent going to be better on average for the older fighters. but reflexes are almost entirely dictated by the punches taken. floyd mayweather is no spring chicken, and he's still one of the sharpest fighters on the planet once he's warmed up


notice how you dont see your HW prospects (how few there are) moving quickly through the division (like say a bantamweight might)


smaller men peak at a younger age
big men need time to fill out, get stronger
they peak later in life.


you guys should all know this stuff (teddy atlas 101,) and many of you do.
i dont know why i've got to repeat it.


some bull**** comign from some guy typing in purple isnt going to make me change my stance on some of the pillars of boxing.

The main reason big men take longer to develop is because they are not naturally as good as smaller fighters. Not to many people weight over 200 pounds when they train hard for boxing. So the talent pool at heavy weight is small, and there is less chance of extreme talant in small groups. Wladimir finally learned to box better and that is why he is not getting knocked out and running out of energy. It has nothing to do with filling out.

Jack Napier
03-30-2011, 01:28 AM
Wlad intimidates guys with his power
they're too scared to rush in for fear of his right hand
Holyfield at his best has rhythm to penetrate the Wlad jab
and he won't be afraid to get hit
this isn't an easy fight for Holyfield, but he'd win it
Wlad would tire late and be overtaken
tough decision or late KO for Holyfield

The_Demon
03-30-2011, 07:19 AM
i'm not really a wladimir fan, if it was me you are talking about


he's a gigantic man.

he's going to run out of gas.
that's a question of being economical with a giganitic body, and not his conditioning.



he's as well conditioned an athlete there is in the division right now.
he's never going to be able to throw 100 punches in a round

Your going back on yourself here,wlad has weak staminia and Holyfield would expose that weakness in a bad way,you really seem too be missing the point

New England
03-30-2011, 09:47 AM
The main reason big men take longer to develop is because they are not naturally as good as smaller fighters. Not to many people weight over 200 pounds when they train hard for boxing. So the talent pool at heavy weight is small, and there is less chance of extreme talant in small groups. Wladimir finally learned to box better and that is why he is not getting knocked out and running out of energy. It has nothing to do with filling out.




do you read what is posted?


he lost because he had a horrific gameplan. he ran himself out of gas.
it's his gameplan (and not his level of conditioning, a perfectly conditioned 250 lb man can gas himself out rather easily if he's not smart with all that muscle) that gets him through fights.




additionally, his fight with purrity was sighted, not with brewster, because he was 22 year old at the time
22!
that's a boy in the heavyweight division.




and finally, you're very wrong about the size of the men


there are plenty of people in the NFL, NBA that would't have an iceberg's chance in hell of fighting at 200 lbs


there are plenty of men on the planet (with premium athletic talent)
who would weigh much more than 200 if they were in prizefighting shape

they just dont box anymore



the HW division is lacking in athletic talent because nobody special is going to boxing.
not because the athetes dont exist, dude.




and poet:
you've clearly never laced up a boxing glove.
have fun investing a sense of worth in yourself based on boxing knowledge aquired on internet forums
you are that clueless keyboard warrior on Bscene that naz richardson alludes to.



come to the east coast and i'll buy you a ticket to your first boxing match
we'll sit ringside so you can see what it's like.

New England
03-30-2011, 10:01 AM
Your going back on yourself here,wlad has weak staminia and Holyfield would expose that weakness in a bad way,you really seem too be missing the point



what dont you guys get!??

i'm picking holyfield on attrition to win (among other factors, the firs tbeing htat he's just a superior fighter)



i'm defending wladimir's stamina (which is dependent on being economical because of his size)

he's not doomed to gassing out in 12 round fights (see his latest fights)


instead, it would be holyfield's qualities, not wladimir's inherent stamina issues (which we have outlined are based on a poor gameplan)
that won him the fight



nowhere did i say that wladimir's stamina is greater than holyfields
i never said it would bail him out against evander holyfield


holyfield would easily stop Wladimir
he's lightyears beyond wladimir in my eyes.


i said that it gets a bad wrap (especially around here) for losses that saw wladimir pace himself poorly and gas out


not because he's doomed to bad stamina
he's a world class athlete in tip top shape





again: a summary, because i dont think there's a ton of reading being done here


Wladimir is NOT doomed to a career with horrible stamina. he puts in the work and has the athletic ability to produce 12 rounds of boxing.



he must be economical with his 250 lb body (one of the largest fit bodies to ever box)
or he's going to gas


that's not a characteristic that dooms his stamina
thats biology
that's boxing. you cannot box like a wildman for 12 rounds (especially if you weigh that much)

New England
03-30-2011, 10:04 AM
Your going back on yourself here,wlad has weak staminia and Holyfield would expose that weakness in a bad way,you really seem too be missing the point




a gigantic man running out of gas because he's not economical wit his body is not a sign of poor stamina. it might be.

but in wladimirs case we've seen him fight for 12 active HW rounds
proiving that he's not doomed to poor stamina
unless he doesnt pace himself
or he gets hit in the chin


if he's a sound 12 round boxer who paces himself correctly and still runs out of gas

thats a stamina problem


you dig it, brother? i'm not tryin to ruffle feathers or clog up the board. i'm just trying to throw in my two cents.


a 250 lb man is going to tire if he goes all out
and he's going to tire more quickly than a 147 lb man
or a 118 lb man, 200 lb man, etc.

Holtol
03-30-2011, 10:54 AM
do you read what is posted?


he lost because he had a horrific gameplan. he ran himself out of gas.
it's his gameplan (and not his level of conditioning, a perfectly conditioned 250 lb man can gas himself out rather easily if he's not smart with all that muscle) that gets him through fights.




additionally, his fight with purrity was sighted, not with brewster, because he was 22 year old at the time
22!
that's a boy in the heavyweight division.




and finally, you're very wrong about the size of the men


there are plenty of people in the NFL, NBA that would't have an iceberg's chance in hell of fighting at 200 lbs


there are plenty of men on the planet (with premium athletic talent)
who would weigh much more than 200 if they were in prizefighting shape

they just dont box anymore



the HW division is lacking in athletic talent because nobody special is going to boxing.
not because the athetes dont exist, dude.

.

The post I was responding to you seemed to think Wladimir is better because he filled out and has became more physical. I think it has more to do with him learning to box better. I believe Wladimir is physically going down hill at this point.

There is far less of a talent pool at over 200 pounds in boxing then other weights. A very small % of the worlds population would weight over 200 pounds if they trained hard for boxing. And most of those people would be just average and not have the rare elements it takes to be a great boxer. I believe thats why it takes big men longer to learn to box well. Because it does not come as naturally to them normally.

New England
03-30-2011, 11:05 AM
The post I was responding to you seemed to think Wladimir is better because he filled out and has became more physical. I think it has more to do with him learning to box better. I believe Wladimir is physically going down hill at this point.

There is far less of a talent pool at over 200 pounds in boxing then other weights. A very small % of the worlds population would weight over 200 pounds if they trained hard for boxing. And most of those people would be just average and not have the rare elements it takes to be a great boxer. I believe thats why it takes big men longer to learn to box well. Because it does not come as naturally to them normally.




fair enough.
I do believe that contemporary wladimir takes a better shot than 22 year old wladimir. We're entitled to our opinions certainly.
i agree with some of the things here and would beg to differ on others

it certainly takes bigger men longer to coordinate a sound boxing performance over 12 rounds and to peak physically


i will see you around, champ

$BloodyNate$
03-30-2011, 11:09 AM
New England that is absolutely ridiculous logic you have about "chin strength growing." You should have just dropped that pitiful logic when Poet hit you with apples and oranges. Punches accumulation can be adjusted especially when your confidence is high. But it don't matter how confident you are, if you get hit at the right time in the right place, your going to ****in sleep.

Your telling me that if Wladimir stood in front of prime Sonny Liston, Foreman or Tyson. Got knocked out at 20, his chin would be better and he'd less likely be KO'd when he turned his age now? Your boxing skills mature, not your chin.

As you can tell Wladimir was a lot more aggressive and wild in his younger days which got him gassed & rocked. The reason Wlad doesn't get hurt anymore is because he's 100% safety first now until Steward cusses him out in the 12th and tells him to stop letting the bum stay in the fight. He has a low output which is why he doesn't appear to gas anymore. Look at the Hopkins strategy, fight hard 1 minute, hard defense the rest. Nobody in this chumpy ass heavyweight division can get inside because their either so out of shape and all power they just don't have the skills do it or there all skills but small so they still can't get inside which is where they suck at anyway.

It's common obvious boxing knowledge your stamina is completely different when a actual threat is pressing you effectively which nobody has ever done to Wlad successfully in a long ass time. So he can get away with being safety first because he's so damn big that nobody can get past the jab and there scared of that overhand right yet I feel Wlad is more afraid of his opponents then they are of him. He doesn't realize his own strength it seems.

Holyfield would be in his ****in grill all day. Wear him down and stop him late. He'd have a pretty good chance of beating Vital too since Vital is more heart and guts with not as good defense so Holyfield could most likely outwork him.

New England
03-30-2011, 11:22 AM
New England that is absolutely ridiculous logic you have about "chin strength growing." You should have just dropped that pitiful logic when Poet hit you with apples and oranges. Punches accumulation can be adjusted especially when your confidence is high. But it don't matter how confident you are, if you get hit at the right time in the right place, your going to ****in sleep.

Your telling me that if Wladimir stood in front of prime Sonny Liston, Foreman or Tyson. Got knocked out at 20, his chin would be better and he'd less likely be KO'd when he turned his age now? Your boxing skills mature, not your chin.

As you can tell Wladimir was a lot more aggressive and wild in his younger days which got him gassed & rocked. The reason Wlad doesn't get hurt anymore is because he's 100% safety first now until Steward cusses him out in the 12th and tells him to stop letting the bum stay in the fight. He has a low output which is why he doesn't appear to gas anymore. Look at the Hopkins strategy, fight hard 1 minute, hard defense the rest. Nobody in this chumpy ass heavyweight division can get inside because their either so out of shape and all power they just don't have the skills do it or there all skills but small so they still can't get inside which is where they suck at anyway.

It's common obvious boxing knowledge your stamina is completely different when a actual threat is pressing you effectively which nobody has ever done to Wlad successfully in a long ass time. So he can get away with being safety first because he's so damn big that nobody can get past the jab and there scared of that overhand right yet I feel Wlad is more afraid of his opponents then they are of him. He doesn't realize his own strength it seems.

Holyfield would be in his ****in grill all day. Wear him down and stop him late. He'd have a pretty good chance of beating Vital too since Vital is more heart and guts with not as good defense so Holyfield could most likely outwork him.





I'm saying he's going to take punches better in his prime than he will when he's still growing. And that HWs especially will take punches better if they're given time to mature physically (and in many cases fill out,) than they will against the same opponents and punches in their late teens and very early 20's



wladimir doesnt have a ton of milage for a HW with three stoppage losses and a long career
we cant really tell how depleted he is, because he's so rrarely hit
but that's not really what i'm arguing anyway.


the big punchers are still going to get to him, dude. i'm not saying they are not.

i feel like i need a disclaimer for every post that says i believe wladimir would get beat up and stopped after the mid rounds if he fought evander, perhaps even earlier if he decided to quit



maturing into his prime is not going to turn him into even a good chin having son of a gun
but it's going to help him take shots


but i'm sticking to it when i say a 22 year old wladimir (weighing less, being less mature physically) isnt going to take shots as well as wladimir in his prime


come on, brother, really?

if we were talking about a bantamweight i'd be singing a different tune

BigStereotype
03-30-2011, 11:53 AM
Wlad has all the tools physically to be Holyfield and I think that Evander would get beat up pretty good in the first couple rounds. But mentally, Holyfield is the strongest fighter I have ever seen. He would have eventually forced Klitschko into a fight he doesn't want to fight and Klitschko is pretty one dimensional. Holyfield by 10th round stoppage, scorecards are pretty close.

$BloodyNate$
03-30-2011, 11:54 AM
Homie, that has nothing to do with maturity. The ability to take punches has always been about heart, confidence, and chin. You either have it or you don't. You can't learn or grow heart. You either can take a bunch of punches or you can't. You can grow confidence but it's easily taken away. And you either have a good chin or you don't.

Some people like to get hit others don't. Look at Ricardo Mayorga. He gots the confidence and throws his chin out there because he don't mind getting hit because when somebody exchanges with them he has the confidence he can take their best shot and possibly hurt them with his own. But after he gasses in round 5, he looses that confidence, his heart starts to fade, which all that leaves is his chin as his last line of defense which takes another solid few punches until he eventually goes down.

You might now like that example because it's a brawler. Well look at Pernell Whitaker. He stuck his chin out numerous times because he was that ****in good. He even did it when he was getting older against the young hungry lion De La Hoya. Even Chavez he didn't really keep his hands up all the time, a lot of times he relied on pure head movement because he knew he had the stamina to go rounds, which brought confidence, and he had the confidence that even if he was hit it wouldn't do nothing. Whitaker was never truely in danger of getting hurt or badly stopped ever because he had the chin to take Tito's best shots even when he had his jaw broken earlier in the fight in a fight where he was towards the end of his career.

Pernell didn't mature into being able to take punches, he's always had the heart, chin and confidence get through any adversity because he was that good.

Also fighters careers get ruined because of getting destroyed by fighters. Look at Jeff Lacey. Calzaghe absolutely ruined his career when he trashed him. He was never the same, never had the same confidence in himself after that fight. Calzaghe owns his heart and soul. And thats ****in embarrassing I might add that I have to use that example but it was the quickest one to come to mind.

Look at Michael Kasiditis. This man has the heart, will and chin of a true warrior but even he can only take so much punishment. He can't mature into taking more. He'll brawl with you until the very end but if he don't take you out he'll gas and get his lights put out.

Wlad DOES NOT WANT TO GET HIT. He knows he can't take much of a punch so he does his best to use those long ass arms to jab so he can't get hit. These bums he fight today can not get inside because they aren't talented enough the ones that have the power to chin check him so their easily jabbed, jabbed, jabbed, clinched, jabbed jabbed jabbed clinched. Which tires them out. Because they lose confidence because they know they can't get inside which frustrates them getting jabbed in the face for 10 rounds takes it's toll not to mention Wlad's body weight on them constantly clinching. So eventually they break and when Stewart says the word he finally opens up and is able to KO them because it don't take much.

Theres a reason Wlad didn't fight Lennox and Vital did because Vital was the better style match up because he had the better chin and stamina. I give Wlad credit, he's smart as hell which makes him look good by fighting smart but nobody's fooled.

Throw prime Holyfield, Bowe, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Tyson, and Lewis, they would get on the inside make him fight at a higher pace, he'd get extremely uncomfortable fighting at a higher pace, gas and then get KTFO if he wasn't caught before hand before he gasses.

Scott9945
03-30-2011, 11:55 AM
Wlad has all the tools physically to be Holyfield and I think that Evander would get beat up pretty good in the first couple rounds. But mentally, Holyfield is the strongest fighter I have ever seen. He would have eventually forced Klitschko into a fight he doesn't want to fight and Klitschko is pretty one dimensional. Holyfield by 10th round stoppage, scorecards are pretty close.

Good analysis.

New England
03-30-2011, 12:05 PM
Homie, that has nothing to do with maturity. The ability to take punches has always been about heart, confidence, and chin. You either have it or you don't. You can't learn or grow heart. You either can take a bunch of punches or you can't. You can grow confidence but it's easily taken away. And you either have a good chin or you don't.

Some people like to get hit others don't. Look at Ricardo Mayorga. He gots the confidence and throws his chin out there because he don't mind getting hit because when somebody exchanges with them he has the confidence he can take their best shot and possibly hurt them with his own. But after he gasses in round 5, he looses that confidence, his heart starts to fade, which all that leaves is his chin as his last line of defense which takes another solid few punches until he eventually goes down.

You might now like that example because it's a brawler. Well look at Pernell Whitaker. He stuck his chin out numerous times because he was that ****in good. He even did it when he was getting older against the young hungry lion De La Hoya. Even Chavez he didn't really keep his hands up all the time, a lot of times he relied on pure head movement because he knew he had the stamina to go rounds, which brought confidence, and he had the confidence that even if he was hit it wouldn't do nothing. Whitaker was never truely in danger of getting hurt or badly stopped ever because he had the chin to take Tito's best shots even when he had his jaw broken earlier in the fight in a fight where he was towards the end of his career.

Pernell didn't mature into being able to take punches, he's always had the heart, chin and confidence get through any adversity because he was that good.

Also fighters careers get ruined because of getting destroyed by fighters. Look at Jeff Lacey. Calzaghe absolutely ruined his career when he trashed him. He was never the same, never had the same confidence in himself after that fight. Calzaghe owns his heart and soul. And thats ****in embarrassing I might add that I have to use that example but it was the quickest one to come to mind.

Look at Michael Kasiditis. This man has the heart, will and chin of a true warrior but even he can only take so much punishment. He can't mature into taking more. He'll brawl with you until the very end but if he don't take you out he'll gas and get his lights put out.

Wlad DOES NOT WANT TO GET HIT. He knows he can't take much of a punch so he does his best to use those long ass arms to jab so he can't get hit. These bums he fight today can not get inside because they aren't talented enough the ones that have the power to chin check him so their easily jabbed, jabbed, jabbed, clinched, jabbed jabbed jabbed clinched. Which tires them out. Because they lose confidence because they know they can't get inside which frustrates them getting jabbed in the face for 10 rounds takes it's toll not to mention Wlad's body weight on them constantly clinching. So eventually they break and when Stewart says the word he finally opens up and is able to KO them because it don't take much.

Theres a reason Wlad didn't fight Lennox and Vital did because Vital was the better style match up because he had the better chin and stamina. I give Wlad credit, he's smart as hell which makes him look good by fighting smart but nobody's fooled.

Throw prime Holyfield, Bowe, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Tyson, and Lewis, they would get on the inside make him fight at a higher pace, he'd get extremely uncomfortable fighting at a higher pace, gas and then get KTFO if he wasn't caught before hand before he gasses.



we can agree to disagree about the maturation process of a heavyweight

i've never called wladimir a hard man
he's probably grown up since his losses
but he's quit before.

his heart and chin certainly seperates him from the great hw's, and leads me to rate him behind his brother by a good deal, even though he;s the better athlete and arguably boxer


i dont think bowe, foreman, liston, or lewis would elect to get inside on wladimir. they'd try and make him fight, but that doesnt neccessarily involve infighting.

they'd probably look for / create an opportunity to turn the heat up and land something big and stop him after boxing smart to begin the fight.

Holtol
03-30-2011, 01:04 PM
fair enough.
I do believe that contemporary wladimir takes a better shot than 22 year old wladimir. We're entitled to our opinions certainly.
i agree with some of the things here and would beg to differ on others

it certainly takes bigger men longer to coordinate a sound boxing performance over 12 rounds and to peak physically


i will see you around, champ

I have not seen Wlad been hit like Sanders hit him in a long time so I don't know if he can take a punch better or not. Maybe one day we will see if you are right. I don't see anyone right now who will be able to get to Wladimirs chin but in a few years Wlad will be slowing down and might get punched hard more often.

GJC
04-03-2011, 12:56 AM
Good fighters are problem solvers unfortunately the opponents that Wlad has been fighting haven't had the nous to set him any problems. I haven't seen anything in Wlad that leads me to believe that he could problem solve against a "live" body.
But hey he's big so i'd definately back him to win the weigh in after that my money's on Holyfield.
Holyfield would take him out of his comfort zone, once a fighters out of his comfort zone then it comes down to heart and thinking on your feet. I seriously have doubts on Wlad on that score more so than any lack of chin or stamina. Not saying that Wlad doesn't have any heart but on the few occasions in the past when he has had to dig deep he has come up short. As for thinking on his feet, over the last 5 years he has never had to resort to a plan B so the big question is does he have one?
You only have to think of Ali/Foreman. Foreman had been having easy nights work and now he had a man in front of him that was forcing him to dig deep, posing him problems and making him question his abilities. Foreman wasn't equiped to handle it.

sleazyfellow
04-03-2011, 01:04 AM
Holyfield might go down but hes gonna get back up and fire back...unlike many of the klit bros. opponents.

SeattleSeahawks
04-03-2011, 05:58 PM
Wlad is like a bigger Bowe? Alot of you smoke crack right? Bigger yes, stronger, better puncher no. Wlad has no chin and takes round after round to beat has beens.

Prime Holyfield stops this overrated joke.

kendom
05-28-2011, 11:32 AM
Theres no way that Klitchsko cud ko someone with the chin of Holyfield, Holyfiled's counter punching skills and aggression would gve Wlad fits, Holyfield takes this

SCtrojansbaby
05-28-2011, 02:13 PM
This is a nightmare matchup for Holyfield he would take a shyt load of punishment to get on the inside only to get tied up and pushed around.

SCtrojansbaby
05-28-2011, 02:16 PM
Wlad is like a bigger Bowe? Alot of you smoke crack right? Bigger yes, stronger, better puncher no. Wlad has no chin and takes round after round to beat has beens.

Prime Holyfield stops this overrated joke.


LOL Wlad is a WAY harder puncher then Bowe I can't even believe you said that.

studentofthegam
05-28-2011, 02:20 PM
You think Corrie Sanders put pressure on him then Holy in his prime would have gave him fits. He rocked Bowe who has a much better chin than Wlad. I could see him taking Wlad out in the late rounds. The only way Holyfield loses is if he waits on the outside. Klit hates forced action and Evander was all action back then.

SCtrojansbaby
05-28-2011, 02:26 PM
You think Corrie Sanders put pressure on him then Holy in his prime would have gave him fits. He rocked Bowe who has a much better chin than Wlad. I could see him taking Wlad out in the late rounds. The only way Holyfield loses is if he waits on the outside. Klit hates forced action and Evander was all action back then.


How is Holyfield going to force the action? when he gets inside Wlad will tie him up and lean on him. Holyfield is going to take a shytload of punishment from a guy with 1 punch KO power

studentofthegam
05-28-2011, 02:31 PM
How is Holyfield going to force the action? when he gets inside Wlad will tie him up and lean on him. Holyfield is going to take a shytload of punishment from a guy with 1 punch KO powerHolyfield will go in throwing punches. Not just getting in and then punching. He's always been the smaller man at HW and I cant think of one time when he was just bullied. Wlad never wants a rough fight and thats what he would have. He's best when he has guys who think to much and try to pick a good time. With a Prime Holy, anytime's a good time to land something.

SCtrojansbaby
05-28-2011, 02:40 PM
Holyfield will go in throwing punches. Not just getting in and then punching. He's always been the smaller man at HW and I cant think of one time when he was just bullied. Wlad never wants a rough fight and thats what he would have. He's best when he has guys who think to much and try to pick a good time. With a Prime Holy, anytime's a good time to land something.


Its Wlad's fight to lose. Evander would realize his only hope was one big punch and if Wlad didn't get try and get brave(like he did against Sanders) he would force the fight to his pace.

young_robbed
05-28-2011, 03:02 PM
Its Wlad's fight to lose. Evander would realize his only hope was one big punch and if Wlad didn't get try and get brave(like he did against Sanders) he would force the fight to his pace.

No wonder you have awful karma.

Holyfield is going to press the fight the whole time. Wlad won't be able to take the pressure and combos that Holyfield is gonna dish out. no doubt on that

nomadman
05-28-2011, 05:18 PM
I foresee one of two situations playing out:

Either Holyfield catches Wlad early and begins to pressure Wlad to a stoppage

or

Wlad successfully slows the pace to his liking with his jab and grab style and grinds out Holyfield to a UD.

Of the two I see the former being the slighty more likely scenario playing out. Wlad isn't nearly as vulnerable to durable punchers as he was in the past (so anyone mentioning the likes of Purrity needs to get the hell out of this thread) but he's still vulnerable to getting caught in that split second when a fighter bridges the gap and Wlad clinches him up. Holyfield could catch him at some point coming in and whilst I don't think one shot would KO Wlad, it would certainly swing things in Holy's favour, especially if he starts to time Wlad and land with some regularity. I can see him stunning Wlad with a sharp overhand right, Wlad vainly trying to clinch him up and getting caught with a barrage of follow up blows, Holy fighting his way out of the clinch as Wlad gets increasingly groggy, then dropping him to his knees a few seconds later. Wlad gets up, gets dropped a few more times and the ref or corner stops the fight.

On the other hand, if Wlad establishes his jab early he could disrupt Holy's rhythm, especially if he can time Holy bouncing in. Holy's got a great beard but Wlad's a massive puncher and could easily stun him at several times with a quick right or hybrid jab/hook. If Wlad starts getting some momentum I see him begin to grind down Holy with jabs and leaning clinches, Holyfield getting the odd good punch in but not really troubling Wlad and eventually losing a UD (I think Holy's resilient enough and Wlad reticent enough to make this fight go the scorecards). Would easily be the toughest fight of Wlad's career though.

Holyfield 60/40

RubenSonny
05-28-2011, 05:25 PM
A key element to Bowes victory was his excellence on the inside - a distance which Holy loved to fight at and the logical key to victory against a big man (its usually assumed they would lack on the inside) like Bowe, however due to Bowes effectiveness there, he didn't have the obvious advantage making Bowe an extremely difficult style match-up for him. Wlad has shown nothing on the inside, and that would be were Holy would be most effective, sure it would be pretty difficult to actually get there, but someone the calibre of Holy can get passed that jab and put some damage down. I think Holy would win a pretty hard fought but clear decision say 8-4, 9-3 type fight maybe a late stoppage.

I take this back I've been watching Holyfield recently and I absolutely think he'd stop Wlad.

The Smash
05-28-2011, 06:13 PM
I don't think it goes 10 rounds; prime Holyfield would be like nothing Wlad has ever seen, from his ability to withstand heavy artilery, certainly heavier than Wlad has, to his refusal to physicallly relent. He would be too much. If Wlad doesn't retire on his stool Evander would drive that left hook to the body in the early rounds and take a tired Klitschko out in the 9th.

young_robbed
05-28-2011, 07:43 PM
I foresee one of two situations playing out:

Either Holyfield catches Wlad early and begins to pressure Wlad to a stoppage

or

Wlad successfully slows the pace to his liking with his jab and grab style and grinds out Holyfield to a UD.

Furthermore why don't you guys have more confidence in Holyfield? Guy fought all kinds of opponents. much more tested then wlad too.

Holyfield could KO Wlad anytime.

BigStereotype
05-28-2011, 08:07 PM
This is a real interesting fight. Wlad has most of the technical and almost all of the "on-paper" advantages. He's taller, longer, generally bigger, more powerful, slightly quicker, etc. etc. But Evander has, without fail, EVERY grittiness advantage. He's tougher, with a granite chin and just more sack in general. Wlad is one of the "softer" heavyweight champs I have ever seen. So, Wlad might outbox Holyfield and beat him up a bit but I'd pick Holyfield to win by dramatic late-round KO.