View Full Version : My attempt at a top 50(1970-present)


SCtrojansbaby
03-27-2011, 08:51 PM
My criteria is based on their primes only: 50% how good/talented I actually think you are 25% quality wins and 25% consistancy

Just going to do it by tiers

there is no order with in the tiers

Tier I

Sugar Ray Leonard
Muhammad Ali
Roy Jones Jr
Roberto Duran
Julio Cesar Chavez
___________________

Tier II

Carlos Monzon
Marco Antonio Barrera
Bernard Hopkins
George Foreman
Manny Pacquiao
Salvador Sanchez
___________________

Tier III

Floyd Mayweather
Larry Holmes
Ken Norton
Marvin Hagler
James Toney
Joe Frazier
Aaron Pryor
Juan Manuel Marquez
Erik Morales
___________________

Tier IV

Wilfredo Gomez
Felix Trinidad
Alexis Arguello
Bob Foster
Lennox Lewis
Hector Camacho
Thomas Hearns
___________________

Tier V

Virgil Hill
Esteban De Jesus
Winky Wright
Wilfredo Benitez
Jose Luis Ramirez
Azumah Nelson
Shane Mosley
Mike McCallum
Ricardo Lopez
___________________

Tier VI(the rest of the top 50 not necessarily an actual tier)

Wladimir Klitschko
Pernell Whitaker
Michael Nunn
Oscar De la Hoya
Dariusz Michalczewski
Vitali Klitschko
Mike Tyson
Naseem Hamed
Chris Eubank
Evander Holyfield
Riddick Bowe
Henry Maske
Antonio Margartio
Edwin Rosario

I know I missed a few guys. :0

SBleeder
03-27-2011, 08:58 PM
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j77/bowlbyx/bomb.jpg

BigStereotype
03-27-2011, 09:02 PM
Oh boy...please, nobody let Poet anywhere near this thread...please...

Ziggy Stardust
03-27-2011, 09:22 PM
Oh boy...please, nobody let Poet anywhere near this thread...please...

Too late :satan9:

Ziggy Stardust
03-27-2011, 09:23 PM
He actually has a lot of good names listed.....surprisingly enough :chuckle9:

Ziggy Stardust
03-27-2011, 09:24 PM
But he's still a fvcking retard :hahahaha9:

joseph5620
03-27-2011, 09:58 PM
Too late :satan9:





I can't take a list seriously when it has Pernell Whitaker below fighters like Jose Luis Ramirez and Virgil Hill.

Ziggy Stardust
03-27-2011, 09:59 PM
I can't take a list seriously when it has Pernell Whitaker a below fighters like Jose Luis Ramirez and Virgil Hill.

Considering 99.9% of his other posts I'm just thankful Whitaker even made the list :hahahaha9:

Poet

joseph5620
03-27-2011, 10:12 PM
considering 99.9% of his other posts i'm just thankful whitaker even made the list :hahahaha9:

Poet








lol..........

SCtrojansbaby
03-27-2011, 10:46 PM
I can't take a list seriously when it has Pernell Whitaker below fighters like Jose Luis Ramirez and Virgil Hill.

I overrated Ramirez a little but Hill is clearly ahead IMO

Pernell suffers in the quality win department. Best wins are against Azumah and Ramirez guys clearly past there prime. Give me Hill's wins vs prime Tiozzo 2x and a past his prime Maske

SCtrojansbaby
03-27-2011, 10:48 PM
You forgot a tier 7.

For guys like Sugar Ray Robinson, Willie Pep, Hank Armstrong. Those bums.

You forgot to look at the thread title dummy

Scott9945
03-27-2011, 11:15 PM
I overrated Ramirez a little but Hill is clearly ahead IMO

Pernell suffers in the quality win department. Best wins are against Azumah and Ramirez guys clearly past there prime. Give me Hill's wins vs prime Tiozzo 2x and a past his prime Maske

You're really giving credit to Hill for beating a nobody like Tiozzo? And by "past his prime" Maske, you mean in his mid 40's coming off a 10 year retirement. Yeah, just slightly past his prime. :lol1:

Seriously, Hill wasn't even on the same orbit as Whitaker.

IMDAZED
03-27-2011, 11:29 PM
I overrated Ramirez a little but Hill is clearly ahead IMO

Pernell suffers in the quality win department. Best wins are against Azumah and Ramirez guys clearly past there prime. Give me Hill's wins vs prime Tiozzo 2x and a past his prime Maske

Tiozzo and Maske couldn't hold Nelson's jockstrap, past prime or any time.

SCtrojansbaby
03-27-2011, 11:33 PM
You're really giving credit to Hill for beating a nobody like Tiozzo? And by "past his prime" Maske, you mean in his mid 40's coming off a 10 year retirement. Yeah, just slightly past his prime. :lol1:

Seriously, Hill wasn't even on the same orbit as Whitaker.


:haha: I don't even think I should dignify this with a response but I will. Hill lost to Maske after the 10 year comeback he beat Maske in 1996 though. Next time check your facts. Also lol at Tiozzo being a nobody.

SCtrojansbaby
03-27-2011, 11:38 PM
Tiozzo and Maske couldn't hold Nelson's jockstrap, past prime or any time.


So Jesse James Leija is an all time great also?

BigStereotype
03-27-2011, 11:48 PM
:haha: I don't even think I should dignify this with a response but I will. Hill lost to Maske after the 10 year comeback he beat Maske in 1996 though. Next time check your facts. Also lol at Tiozzo being a nobody.

Wait...so let me get this straight...your counter was "yeah, you thought that beating a guy coming off a ten year layoff was bad...too bad he LOST to that guy! Joke's on you!" Really dude?

SCtrojansbaby
03-27-2011, 11:59 PM
Wait...so let me get this straight...your counter was "yeah, you thought that beating a guy coming off a ten year layoff was bad...too bad he LOST to that guy! Joke's on you!" Really dude?


There was no counter, I stated what happened.

Hill beat Maske in 96 before Maske retired. I could care less that they had a meaningless fight 10 years later when both were well over 40 years old.

RubenSonny
03-28-2011, 01:42 PM
So Jesse James Leija is an all time great also?

No one was claiming that, in all 4 fights Nelson was past prime and many thought he won the first fight not to mention that he avenged the 1st loss with a KO, by the time of the last fight he was done as a top fighter and 40 years old.

joseph5620
03-28-2011, 02:07 PM
No one was claiming that, in all 4 fights Nelson was past prime and many thought he won the first fight not to mention that he avenged the 1st loss with a KO, by the time of the last fight he was done as a top fighter and 40 years old.

The 31 year old Nelson that Whitaker beat was better than any fighter Hill beat in his entire career. I think SCTrojan has a bias against Whitaker because he made two of his obvious favorites(Chavez,Jose Luis Ramirez) look like amateurs. It's ridiculous for him to even compare those different versions of Nelson.

RubenSonny
03-28-2011, 02:20 PM
The 31 year old Nelson that Whitaker beat was better than any fighter Hill beat in his entire career. I think SCTrojan has a bias against Whitaker because he made two of his obvious favorites(Chavez,Jose Luis Ramirez) look like amateurs. It's ridiculous for him to even compare those different versions of Nelson.

Despite the misconceptions (mostly due to the clip of the punch round the back), Whitaker was at his best in that fight and Nelson gave a great account of himself.

I know Trojan has said some pretty bizarre stuff.

joseph5620
03-28-2011, 02:22 PM
I overrated Ramirez a little but Hill is clearly ahead IMO

Pernell suffers in the quality win department. Best wins are against Azumah and Ramirez guys clearly past there prime. Give me Hill's wins vs prime Tiozzo 2x and a past his prime Maske

The 31 year old Nelson that Whitaker beat was better than any fighter Hill beat in his entire career. I'm not even going to waste time telling how ridiculous your logic is here. Rating Hill over Whitaker is just stupid. And if you want to talk about "past prime", prime Virgil Hill lost to way past prime Thomas Hearns.

joseph5620
03-28-2011, 02:24 PM
Despite the misconceptions (mostly due to the clip of the punch round the back), Whitaker was at his best in that fight and Nelson gave a great account of himself.

I know Trojan has said some pretty bizarre stuff.

Nelson was a great fighter and did give a great account of himself in that fight. He was certainly better than any opponent Hill ever beat.



Trojan contradicts himself with Ramirez. Just the other day he called Chavez win over Ramirez great and even compared it to Sugar Ray Leonard's best wins. But here he downplays Whitaker's fights with Ramirez which happened before and just after Ramirez fought Chavez. He's clearly biased and that list is a joke.

NChristo
03-28-2011, 02:51 PM
Where's Michael Spinks ?.

RubenSonny
03-28-2011, 02:58 PM
Where's Michael Spinks ?.

Very on point, I missed that one, don't be surprised if someone says something along the lines of:

*ramble*, *ramble*, Tyson KO1, *ramble*, *ramble*, =bum, *ramble*!!!

NChristo
03-28-2011, 03:23 PM
Very on point, I missed that one, don't be surprised if someone says something along the lines of:

*ramble*, *ramble*, Tyson KO1, *ramble*, *ramble*, =bum, *ramble*!!!

:lol1:

Probably.

Screw him probably being the best LHW of the last 40 / 50 years, he got knocked out at HW so he is a bum is usually the response from people, unfortunately he will only be remembered by most fans for his loss to Tyson which is such a shame considering he has such a decorated career.

Virgil Hill and Henry Maske couldn't hold Spinks' spit bucket but they somehow made the list ?, :nonono:.

RubenSonny
03-28-2011, 03:29 PM
:lol1:

Probably.

Screw him probably being the best LHW of the last 40 / 50 years, he got knocked out at HW so he is a bum is usually the response from people.

Virgil Hill and Henry Maske couldn't hold Spinks' spit bucket but they somehow made the list ?, :nonono:.

I'm sure this isn't the first time hes rated Maske really highly, I think he once claimed him to be the LHW of all time in terms of H2H ability, he was such an obscure and mediocre fighter, its pretty bizarre.

Theres several LHWs that come before.

-4-
03-28-2011, 03:32 PM
Joe Calzaghe???

You have Eubank ahead of Calzaghe, who's not even on your list...

The_Demon
03-28-2011, 03:36 PM
Terrible poster

SCtrojansbaby
03-28-2011, 05:29 PM
The 31 year old Nelson that Whitaker beat was better than any fighter Hill beat in his entire career. I think SCTrojan has a bias against Whitaker because he made two of his obvious favorites(Chavez,Jose Luis Ramirez) look like amateurs. It's ridiculous for him to even compare those different versions of Nelson.

Neither JCC or Ramirez are my favorites(look at my sig)

As for contradicting myself. JCC stopped Ramirez Pernell split with him there is no comparison. I would also argue the Ramirez after JCC stopped him was significantly worse then the Ramirez that beat Pernell.

Also I missed on Spinks he should be tier 5 or 4 and lol at Calzaghe he wouldn't make my top 70.

NChristo
03-28-2011, 05:38 PM
Also I missed on Spinks he should be tier 5 and lol at Calzaghe he wouldn't make my top 70.

Fair enough I guess, you did say you missed some names.

Don't get some of your orders, you did say 50% is based on your own personal opinions of how good they were skill / talent wise though, think most people missed that, pretty sure everyone agrees that we all have many different conceptions on how good boxers are in them departments.

Still some odd choices with Whitaker, Lopez, Nelson in particular being low and imo Spinks would be too low at tier 5, he's well balanced in all of your criteria.

But whatever, props on making the list.

SCtrojansbaby
03-28-2011, 06:11 PM
Fair enough I guess, you did say you missed some names.

Don't get some of your orders, you did say 50% is based on your own personal opinions of how good they were skill / talent wise though, think most people missed that, pretty sure everyone agrees that we all have many different conceptions on how good boxers are in them departments.

Still some odd choices with Whitaker, Lopez, Nelson in particular being low and imo Spinks would be too low at tier 5, he's well balanced in all of your criteria.

But whatever, props on making the list I guess.

Thanks

I edited Spinks is tier 4 or 5 a borderline guy IMO he was very very consistent, his wins vs Holmes are excellent but his lightheavy wins aren't any greater then the tier 6 lightheavies. As for my biggest criteria I think Spinks beats all light heavies except RJJ B-Hop Maske and Foster.

NChristo
03-28-2011, 06:29 PM
Thanks

I edited Spinks is tier 4 or 5 a borderline guy IMO he was very very consistent, his wins vs Holmes are excellent but his lightheavy wins aren't any greater then the tier 6 lightheavies. As for my biggest criteria I think Spinks beats all light heavies except RJJ B-Hop Maske and Foster.

Really ?, I would of liked him to come a long a few years earlier (Would of loved a fight with him against Conteh or Saad) but he still cleared out a stacked era, Dwight Qawi on his own trumps any win of Maske's or Hill's, add to that Eddie Muhammad and Marvin Johnson 2 very good wins whom probably are better then any opponents they beat.

SCtrojansbaby
03-28-2011, 06:50 PM
Really ?, I would of liked him to come a long a few years earlier (Would of loved a fight with him against Conteh or Saad) but he still cleared out a stacked era, Dwight Qawi on his own trumps any win of Maske's or Hill's, add to that Eddie Muhammad and Marvin Johnson 2 very good wins whom probably are better then any opponents they beat.


I strongly disagree. the 80s was weak era for light heavies and I don't see Qawi being any better then Tiozzo or Prince Charles.

NChristo
03-28-2011, 07:01 PM
I strongly disagree. the 80s was weak era for light heavies and I don't see Qawi being any better then Tiozzo or Prince Charles.

We'll agree to disagree.


:puke:

joseph5620
03-28-2011, 08:05 PM
Neither JCC or Ramirez are my favorites(look at my sig)

As for contradicting myself. JCC stopped Ramirez Pernell split with him there is no comparison. I would also argue the Ramirez after JCC stopped him was significantly worse then the Ramirez that beat Pernell.

Also I missed on Spinks he should be tier 5 or 4 and lol at Calzaghe he wouldn't make my top 70.



Chavez did not stop Ramirez. He won by Technical Decision (accidental head butt) And if you think Whitaker legitimately lost that first fight to Ramirez, that speaks for itself about you.

SCtrojansbaby
03-28-2011, 08:06 PM
Chavez did not stop Ramirez. He won by Technical Decision. And if you think Whitaker lost that first fight to Ramirez, that speaks for itself.


Point still stands Ramirez took a beating(he gave some good shots too) against Chavez and certainly lost apart of him after that fight

I had the first JLR/Pernell fight as too close to call and when that happens I go with whatever the decision was.

joseph5620
03-28-2011, 08:23 PM
Point still stands Ramirez took a beating(he gave some good shots too) against Chavez and certainly lost apart of him after that fight

I had the first JLR/Pernell fight as too close to call and when that happens I go with whatever the decision was.


Point stands that it wasn't a stoppage and you were trying to rewrite history. I don't know of any objective people who thought Whitaker-Ramirez was a close fight and many see it as one of the worst robberies in history. After reading your bizarre all time list and statements, it doesn't surprise me that you saw it as "too close to call".