View Full Version : Ali goes to war


Toney616
03-25-2011, 10:40 AM
Comments: Apologies to the members who asked me to make this thread a while back, sorry it took so long
Warning: Part 3 is pretty disturbing

Part 1: Elijah Muhammad

http://www.notablebiographies.com/images/uewb_07_img0509.jpg

"You shouldn***8217;t fear the devil when he tells you that you must go and fight in this war. You should refuse to fight. The newspapers are lying when they say the Japanese are losing. We are going to win"- Elijah Muhammad

The Prophet

While subverting Louis***8217;s history the guardians of the Ali myth have also chosen to suppress certain inconvenient facts that have shaped Alis life and career. And none is more is more inconvenient than the disposition of Elijah Muhammad in the month of Alis birth and Louis enlistment, January 1942.

Elijah Muhammad was born Elijah pool, later changed to Elijah Poole, in 1897. Like Louis, he was the seventh child of a struggling but deeply Christian family in the Deep South his father in fact was a preacher like Louis he came to Detroit to seek his fortune arriving in 1923 wife his wife, Clara. Once there, he quickly found a job with a company called the American nut company.
Although the job paid more than twice what he had been making in the south, Muhammad hated it. He devoted his energy instead to Marcus garveys united Negro improvement association, a hugely popular exercise in back to Africa Black Nationalism. Alas soon after Muhammad arrived in Detroit. the feds busted Garvey on a mail fraud charge and Garvey would blame his downfall on the muddle class light coloured negroes. He felt, with some justification that they resented his popularity. In any case, as Garvey's fortunes swooned, so did Muhammad's. He took to the drink and became a burden to his own family.
To help pull himself out of his funk, Muhammad turned to the Moorish Science Temple of America, an organization that the charismatic Noble Drew Ali had founded in Newark, New Jersey, in 1913. Drew Ali described his religion as "Islam" and his followers as Muslims. And laid the groundwork for the Nation of Islam that would follow.
From the beginning, intramural violence would plague this organisation and its spin offs. Drew Ali was indicted for Murder in 1928, and not without good reason. Given his fix, he welcomed the timely arrival of a man who could sustain his mission, the enigmatic David Ford, better known as Wallace Fard. After the police roughly intervened in still another internecine squabble, the enraged Fard swore that he would bring "America to its knees in the very near future." The 1929 stock market crash followed as if by divine inspiration, and Fard took delight in having called it down. Needles to say, this prophecy impressed his followers.

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/uploads/1/ford_false_lable_1.jpg
Wallace Fard

A Meeting with God

It certainly impressed Muhammad***8217;s wife Clara. She persuaded her husband to who had started to drinking again upon the demise of Drew Ali to meet with Fard "I know you think I***8217;m white," Fard told him at the meeting "But I***8217;m not. I***8217;m an Asiatic black man. I have come to America to save my long lost uncle."

Fard did look Caucasian and indeed was . Best evidence his hatred of Hinduism being exhibit A pegs him as a native of what is now Pakistan among Fards stops on his way from Karachi to Detroit
Was San Quentin, where he had idled away a few years on a narcotics rap. The "uncle" he had come to save was the African American, and few among them needed saving like Elijah Muhammad. He transferred his loyalties in Fard in a Detroit minute

Much has been made about the rather adventurous creation myths that Fard shared with Muhammad, the tales of a big-headed black scientist named Yakub who had grafted the white race from the black thousands of years ago in a gene-manipulation experiment. But it was not Fard's cosmology that attracted the FBI in the 1930s. It was the company he kept.

As early as 1933, the prescient Fard was predicting a war between the United States and Japan. He was soon elaborating that a hovering "Mother Plane" would launch smaller planes, which would drop poison bombs and eliminate white America. That plane was to have been designed and built in Japan.

In that same year, 1933, to avoid legal complications, Fard changed the name of the organization to the Nation of Islam, the name by which it is still known. He also created the Fruit of Islam, a paramilitary group not unlike the SA of Adolph Hitler, who had assumed power that same year in Germany. By the time too, Fard granted his now loyal acolyte the name Elijah Muhammad and appointed him Supreme Minister.

The Japanese

Fard and Muhammad did more than talk about their "Asiatic bothers" They conspired with them. They got in particularly deep with Japanese agent Satohata Takahashi, who had burrowed into a variety of black nationalist organisations, and his protégé, Ashima Takis, in a 1933 In a 1933 rally transcribed by the FBI, Takis told the his black audience, "You are the most oppressed people on earth. If you join the Japanese and other coloured races, you will be in command of the whites." As Karl Evanzz notes in his courageous book on Elijah Muhammad, The Messenger,***8221; This ideological confluence marked the beginning of the federal governments monitoring of Muslims in America."

After Fard disappeared one step ahead of the law, Muhammad assumed control of the Nation of Islam, claiming that Fard had appointed him as his successor, Throughout the decade, Muhammad peppered nearly every speech with boasts of Japanese superiority.

"The Japanese will slaughter the white man," Muhammad promised repeatedly. To prop up Muhammad***8217;s leadership and encourage a little treason, Takahashi promised each Nation of Islam follower a single family detached house in Hawaii. All they had to do was to support Japan in a war against America. By decades end Fard's war prophecy was looking more and more inspired. The Feds certainly thought so; they listed Muhammad as a threat to national security and arrested Takashi for Immigration violations.

Were he still a drinker Muhammad would have been popping Champagne corks on December the 17, 1941. That was the day, of course, that "Allah's Asiatic Army" bombed Pearl Harbour. In the weeks that followed as Evanzz relates, "Muhammad and his followers revelled in the newspaper accounts of Japan's exploits."
As it happened Congress had extended the draft age to forty-five a year earlier. A generation later, it would lower the passing percentile on intelligent tests from 30 to 15. In each case, neither intentional, the change just barely netted a prominent member of the Nation of Islam. In each case the member refused to register. Muhammad's refusal set the precedent for Ali's. Not knowing Muhammad***8217;s history and not particularly caring, Vietnam-era resisters would see Ali's resistance as moral and principled as their own to be. That is one of the many drawbacks of not knowing history.

To say the least, Elijah Muhammad lacked Ali's resources to fight the draft. On September 20, 1942, federal agents found the Messenger hiding ingloriously under a bed in a Washington DC house. A week later, Ashima Takis pled guilty to forging a money order and turned states evidence against the Nation of Islam. Three weeks later, a grand jury indicted Muhammad for conspiracy to commit sedition.
Among the evidence presented against Muhammad in his subsequent trial was a lecture he had delivered at the Chicago temple in August 1942.

"You shouldn***8217;t fear the devil when he tells you that you must go and fight in this war. You should refuse to fight," he told his followers. "The newspapers are lying when they say the Japanese are losing. We are going to win"

As history records, "we"-the Japanese/Nazi/Nation of Islam axis- did not win the war. Nor did Muhammad win his legal battles. After three years in a federal prison , he was released to what he regarded as a larger prison, the "wilderness of North America," new year and one week later the Second World War came to its terrifying end.

End of part 1

Toney616
03-25-2011, 10:45 AM
Part 2: Muhammad Ali

http://www.thestranger.com/blog/files/2007/01/MUHAMMAD-ALI_88__F-300.445_20.jpg

"The kid was terrified. I left him with tears in his eyes. If you ask me, he wasn***8217;t afraid of jail. He was scared of being killed by the Muslims. But I don***8217;t know for sure." - Ray Robinson


The Draft

In early 1966, with the conflict in Vietnam escalating, Selective Service lowered the bar to include those whose mental aptitudes were in the 15th percentile or higher. That meant Ali. He was not pleased. He immediately had his attorney apply for a deferment based on the financial hardship it would cause his parents, but the request was denied. Ali was reclassified 1-A.

The New York Times Lipsyte was with Ali in Miami when he first heard the news. "How can they do this t me?" Ali griped. "I don***8217;t want my career ruined." Then the phone started ringing, and reporters from all over the country peppered him with questions. Throughout the day, meanwhile, his ever present Muslim retainers filled his head with the likely horrors of Vietnam, horrors visited not by "Charlie" as in the VC, or Victor Charlie, but by Mister Charlie. "Some white cracker sergeant is gonna put a shank in you." Ali heard over and over again in no one variation or another.

I'm Afraid

Ali was sitting on the bed, eyes downcast, when Robinson entered his Leow's room. Sugar said:***8221; you got a fight tonight. You need sleep. "Ali got up and handed him a thousand dollars in cash.
"What***8217;s this for?" Sugar asked. "I told you I can***8217;t be in your corner. I don't have a second***8217;s license. "
Ali said:***8221; Keep it. You're a good friend."
"What***8217;s the trouble champ?" Sugar asked.
"The army. They're gonna want me soon. But I can go."
"But you have to go. What***8217;s this can't?"
"Elijah Muhammad told me,"Ali said, "that I can***8217;t go."
Ray said:***8221; You won't see a gun. Box some exhibitions. It'll be a snap. If you don't, they'll send you to jail, pick up your license. You want to blow up your career, all you have, for nothing."
"Well," Ali said, "Elijah Muhammad told me."
"Forget the old man," Ray said, annoyed now. "Is Elijah going to go to jail, and all of those other Muslims?"
"But I'm afraid, Ray, really afraid."
"Afraid of what? Of the Muslims if you don't do what they told you?"
Sugar pressed for an answer; he never got one. Years later he recalled:" He never answered. The kid was terrified. I left him with tears in his eyes. If you ask me, he wasn***8217;t afraid of jail. He was scared of being killed by the Muslims. But I don***8217;t know for sure.

Banana Trees

Tex Maule, of Sports Illustrated, who could forgive Clay almost anything, showed up at Clay***8217;s quarters prior to the Folley fight, and he was amazed how easily the Muslims pushed him around.
Maule was trying to console Ali about the military draft, saying "The way they'll treat you, it will be like you're on vacation." Ali was clearly agitated, like a man who was seriously divided about a decision he must make, and time was running out. He asked Tex if he had ever been in jail. "Tex!***8221; One of the Muslims intruded. "Man with that name never been to jail. He put people in jail." He was referring to the fact that Maule was from Texas. Another Muslim added:***8221; He say no problem. Why, that white trash out there sends your ass to Nam in a second. And they'll lynch you way up in a banana tree." Tex tried to dispute their fantastic analysis of Ali's situation. A Muslim waved him off, saying. "Some bullneck cracker corporal put a blade in him before he even get to Nam. " Another added:***8221; You be doin the stockade shuffle. Jist cause you don***8217;t wanna wash dishes."Tex urged Ali not to believe this bull****. Ali said:***8221; I don***8217;t know what to believe." A Muslim walked over to Ali:"Champ take a walk." Ali said," I don***8217;t feel like it." The Muslim said: ***8220;Listen to me! Jist get out okay?"
When Ali left, the three Muslims moved close to Maule, one of them pointing his finger and saying," You best stay outta our business. Now haul your white ass outta here. You got nothin to say here

Conscientious Objector

In March 1966, Ali's attorney again appealed for reclassification, and this time he added a wrinkle: Ali was a conscientious objector on religious grounds. The request was denied. In August 1966, Ali got to make his own case for reclassification before the administrative judge. Under oath, he testified that true Muslims like himself "could not participate in wars on the side of the non believers." Like many a judge in an out of the ring, this one finessed the decision Ali's way. He overlooked the bellicose history of Islam and contended that Ali was "sincere in his objection on religious grounds to war in any form."

The Justice Department was not quite so naive. Is attorneys argued that political and racial considerations inspired Ali's opposition to the war. The Kentucky Appeals Board sided with the Justice Department. The mythmakers who portray these decisions as racist and/or reactionary miss the obvious. "I don***8217;t think the Nation of Islam was a religious organization at all," Confirms Attalla Shabazz. What Ali pulled from the experience was a ," was a social and political awakening."

The Messenger

Publicly, Elijah Muhammad kept his distance from Ali on the subject of the draft. He had to. It was against the law to encourage draft resistance. He had already done time for a related offence. He wasn***8217;t eager to do more. He made a point of telling the press, " Every one of my followers is free to make his own choice."
Privately, However, Muhammad was yanking Ali's chain. If he did not tell Ali directly what to do, he made sure Ali got the message through Herbert. "I know my father didn***8217;t want Ali to o into the army," Herbert admits to Hauser years later.
Howard Cossell insists on the question of the draft," Ali bent neither to pressure or friendly overture, ***8220;but then he quotes Ali one page later as saying, "Can***8217;t talk to you no more, not without Elijah***8217;s permission." Cossel comments, "This was simply further evidence of the control the Muslims exercised over him

Muhammad, the reader recalls, not only ducked the draft but also conspired with America***8217;s Japanese enemy and indirectly with Japan's Nazi allies. "The Japanese will slaughter the white man," Elijah had boasted repeatedly. This was not the kind of mentor one would expect to learn the arts of pacifism or conscientious objection.
Ali surely respected Muhammad, but that respect had to be have been tinged with fear. He had seen what Muhammad had and could do his enemies. Ali did not want to become one. When faced with the draft, Ali chose the least frightening option. There was little courage involved, less principle, and no sign of independent thought.

The Deal

Before the trail , Ali and his attorneys came very close to negotiating a deal compromise in which Ali could perform a role not unlike Joe Louis 's in World War II. A democrat administration had little stomach for a fight with a popular black champion in those volatile times. Its attorneys were eager to compromise. By most accounts, so was Ali. Mort Susman, who headed up the U.S Attorneys Office for the Houston office, suspected that Ali was very close to accepting a deal, " but some of his advisors wanted to make a martyr out of him."

In the month before the trial, Muhammad gave a rare and careful interview broadcast over the major radio networks. On the question of whether Ali was being mistreated because he was a Muslim , Muhammad replied, "It can't be anything else. Muhammad Ali is harassed to keep the other mentally sleeping so-called Negroes in America. "As Muhammad saw more clearly than his son, the Nation would profit more in the long run if Ali did go to prison.

The Trail

Clay***8217;s legal argument had four points:
No war except Elijah
No blacks on the draft board
Exemption as a working minister
And as a black he couldn***8217;t kill other people of colour. Of the last it could be said by his critics: Who killed Malcolm X? Larry, Moe and Curly?

Ali went to trial on June 19, 1967. Up to the last second, even during the trial, government lawyers believed he would accept a deal with the Army Special Services. Trouble was that the Muslims insisted he never be in uniform and never be given a rank. "The Muslims," a lawyer said,***8221; seem to want him smack up against the wall. They want him to go down for the cause. I don't know. We don***8217;t want this. They want it." Generous and sympathetic are not words that come to mind about prosecutors. They are often ruthless, spiteful, and undiscriminating in their pursuit of wins for themselves and departments. But the motor for the Justice Departments chase after Clay came from J.Edgar Hoover, the petty, abusive FBI chief, a specialist in creating wild dogs his whole carer, and he saw them and rebellion around every corner. An obsessive compulsive snoop, he loved to crush wayward groups and their symbols Clay was not a lone crusading, principled obstruction as is commonly believed, and had he not become a Muslim the chances are he would have remained "unfit" for duty, 1-Y, after failing two previous tests that put him near the moronic level.

Throughout the trial the next day, Ali sketched absently at his defence table. The jury soon retired, and then returned in twenty minutes with a guilty verdict. Ali wanted his sentence immediately. The lead prosecutor, Morton Susman, asked Judge Ingraham for a reduced sentence, calling the outcome a tragedy, blaming it on the Muslims, who could not hide behind religion", but were political up to their bowties. Ingraham gave him the maximum five years and a $10000 fine; his passport was turned over. He left the courtroom like a man who had heard the will and got the expected safe deposit box and the waterfront

Toney616
03-25-2011, 10:45 AM
Sporting Blood

As the months wore on, it became more difficult for Ali to disguise a growing anxiety. When someone like Ali could make one comment on a 70-mile trip back from Milwaukee, it was clear that a terrible frustration, if not depression, was beginning to overwhelm him. By now, his future as a fighter, his right to the title, began to dominate his conversations with Belinda during long drives to the colleges . "We were sure," she said, "that he'd never fight again. It got to him in a bad way. "Early in 1969, he finally gave mild release to his frustration on a national TV talk show. He had appeared on these shows often before, full of japery and vows of never wanting to fight again. Now, asked once if he would ever return to the ring, he answered: "Why not? If they come up with enough money."
The comment just about blew in the windows of the House of Elijah. To Elijah, it was more than doctrinal affront, it was a repudiation of his humble fork, it was an eager acceptance to the white man's banquet. He summoned Ali to the mansion and , with Ali looking like a grave prelate, he defrocked him of whatever he was supposed to be Ali was stripped of his Muslim name, suspended for a year, and generally denounced as a helpless fool, slithering on the floor in front of the feet of white power and money.
In the Muslim newspaper Muhammad Speaks, Elijah elaborated in a statement:" We tell the world we're not with Muhammad Ali, "he began then went on to say that Ali could not "speak to, visit with, or be seen with any Muslim, or take part in any Muslim activity. He described his actions as those of a fool, of someone who did not want his survival to come from Allah, but with his enemy the white man. "Mr Muhammad Ali," he said, "has sporting blood. Mr Muhammad Ali wants a place in the sport world. He loves it. We call him Cassius Clay."
The timing of Ali's suspension was bad enough to be suspicious. Ali could hardly claim ministerial privilege from a religion that had disowned him. It was possible, even likely, that Muhammad wanted Ali to go to prison. Imprisoned, Ali would justify Muhammad***8217;s reactionary worldview and do wonders for the Nations recruiting all without threatening his power.

Physically, he was trim, a man who looked like he was ready to fight with four or five weeks notice. Inwardly, he felt bewildered and alone than ever. He was a laughingstock to his political enemies, a heretic to his own Muslims, many of whom ducked him in the shops he liked to frequent. Even Herbert publicly renounced any association with Ali. To his critics, a main source of revenue for the Muslims (when he was active) had been used and dropped on the first pretense, more shabbily than by any traditional manager.

Now, by his condemnation, he was fortifying the government***8217;s case that Ali was not sincere in his beliefs. One of Ali's lawyers was as befogged as everyone else "It doesn***8217;t make sense. No use in trying to figure it out, because we are not dealing with reasonable people."

Malcolm X
Current hagiographers have tied themselves in knots trying to elevate Ali into a heroic, defiant catalyst of the anti war movement, a beacon of black independence. It***8217;s a legacy that evolves from the intellectually loose sixties, from those that were in school then and now write romance history. The sad truth was that Ali was played like a harp by the Muslims, a daft cult with a long record of draft dodging from Elijah (who went to prison) on down. His posture was not about unjust war, it was mainly a stratagem by the Muslims to keep themselves on the revolutionary scoreboard, to flex their power and image. Everyone who knew anything about racial politics then knew the press exposure given them was extravagant. They were into profit and running things like Pap Doc ran Haiti. They were, in fact, anti civil rights, despised Martin Luther King, and nowhere near as serious as the panthers, who were anarchic, helpful to the poor, and ready to die on the spot." Malcolm X had wanted Ali to be a man of the world, to be a leader; Ali, mindlessly or fearfully settled for being attached to a string on an old man's hand in Chicago.

End of part 2

Toney616
03-25-2011, 10:46 AM
Part 3: Hamaas Abdul Khaalis

http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/terrorists_spies/assassins/malcolm_x/5-1-Malcolm-X-in-his-coffin.jpg

"Nobody leaves the Muslims without trouble"-Malcolm X

"We are supposed to take part in no wars unless declared by Allah or the Messenger (Elijah)."
-Muhammad Ali

"Some of the younger Muslims have no forgiveness in them for traitors and stool pigeons."- Louis Farrakhan

The Letter

Hamaas Abdul Khaalis had once served the Nation of Islam as Elijah Muhammad’s right hand man but like Malcolm X, grew disillusioned with the organization and quit. Even before Malcolm, he turned to a more authentic form of Islam, in his case a Sunni sect subset known as Hanafi, and founded his own mosque in New York. Khaalis made few waves in the world of Islam until he managed to recruit Abdul-Jabbar and his fortunes changed overnight, literally Abdul-Jabbar bought an expensive home for Khaalis in a black , upper-class D.C neighbourhood known as the Gold Coast, and Khaalis used it as the sects headquarters.
In early January 1973, some ill concocted mix of humours -pride, jealously, revenge-prompted Khaalis to send a series of letters to Elijah Muhammad, his ministers, and the media. In his righteous anger, he denounced Muhammad as a lying deceiver and delighted in exposing the Nation of Islam's founding father, Wallace Fard, as a common crook. Fard still played a key role in the Nation of Islam's Mythology. A few years earlier, for instance, Ali has assured Jose Torres that "Gold talked to and walked with Elijah Muhammad for three and a half years- that was in Detroit, Michigan-then he left."
By Elijah Muhammad's lights, Khaalis was blaspheming, and he did not suffer blasphemers gladly. Ali's cosiness with the peace crowd may have lulled Khaalis into thinking the that the Messenger had turned Pacifist, but as Khaalis was about to discover, he was no Bertrand Russell. The Nation was willing and able to declare war on rouge individuals like himself.
On the early afternoon of July 18, John38X and seven of his fellow Philadelphian paid a house call on the Khaalis home. They brought their guns with them, locked and loaded. Thinking the Washington house the depository for the Hanafi sect's cash reserves, the Philadelphians expanded their plans to include robbery.

The Hanafi Killings

This secondary plot inspired them to seize the inhabitants, bind them in the basement and ransack the house even though the man they had come to chastise, Hamaas Abdul Khaalis, was not home.
Several of Khaalis's relatives ha the terrible bad luck to be at the house that afternoon. One was Khaalis daughter, Amina. After wrenching her newborn from the Amina's arms, Clark made her kneel in a bedroom closet while he taunted her about her father. When she proved insufficiently contrite, Clark shot her in the head. Clarks's Mujahideen then shoved Amina's ten year old brother Rahaman into the same room and forced him to lay on the bed. Over his desperate protests, they shot him twice in the head. They stuffed Amina's two year old brother Abdullah into a closet and shot him in the head three times. When a friend pulled up to the house in his car, the gunmen invited him in and shot him dead as well.

Several of the gunmen headed back to the basement where Khaalis's wife, Bibi, was still bound and gagged, and they poured eight bullets into her at point blank range. Amazingly, both she and Amina would live to tell their tales. Upstairs, meanwhile, others in the group filled a bathtub with water. When full, they brought Bibi's one year old daughter in and held her under until she stopped struggling. They then did the same with Amina's nine year old son. "The seed of the hypocrite is in them," raged one of the holy warriors when he was questioned as to why the babies had to die. By nightfall, the eight men were back in Philadelphia. They had found only about $1000 in cash in the house. Each kept $100 for himself and tithed the rest back to Philadelphia Mosque No 12. When the story explode on the front pages, the Nation of Islam played dumb. Louis Farrakhan claimed that the federal government was behind the murders and Muhammad Speaks dismissed Khaalis as a "modern day Uncle Tom". In time, the police found their way to James Price, one of the attackers, and he identified his cohorts, six of them were indicted for the crime. While they were all awaiting trial, Farrakahn gave a national broadcast radio address in which he warned against those "who would be used as an instrument of a wicked government against our rise." He allowed that despite Elijah Muhammad’s own merciful deposition, some of the younger Muslims "have no forgiveness in them for traitors and stool pigeons." Price's colleagues got the message. Two of his Muslim prison mates attacked him in his cell, crushing his testicles and ripping open his rectum with a prison shank before hanging him with his own bed sheet. As Karl Evanzz ruefully observes in his book, The Messenger, “Price had been mutilated in a way that made Klan violence seem sparing in comparison."

Silence
Were it not for Evanzz, a black Washington Post reporter, the story of this brutal assault might well be lost to history. Not surprisingly, the various web sites that chronicle American Muslim history do not mention it at all. Nor do any of the significant Muhammad Ali biographers-with the exception of a brief note by Mike Marqsee. In fact, a Google search reveals not one single reference that ties Ali to the organization responsible for this mini-holocaust.
By 1973, Elijah Muhammad had eased Ali back into the fold after his lo brief excommunication. Given his identity as a quasi-pacifist and the Nation's most prominent member, Ali should have been called on, at the very ;least, to denounce an incident in which four children were shot or drowned. The media should have demanded as much. Instead, once again, there was-and is-silence.

Comments: The Hanafi Killings highlight the kind of man Elijah was and how far he was willing to go to protect his authority. If he was willing to order the death of Malcolm X and the above murders it only stands to reason he would of been willing to order Ali's death, if need be. Elijah couldn't let his most prominent member go to war because not only would it have undermined his authority it may have also encouraged other followers who were refusing to go, to change their stance. He would of been forced to make a example of Ali and I'm sure he conveyed that message to Ali, which would explain the conversation between Ali and Ray Robinson. Hence:

"But I'm afraid, Ray, really afraid"


Ali goes to war

Sources:
Ghosts of Manila:The Fateful Blood Feud Between Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier by Mark Kram

Sucker Punch: The Hard Left Hook That Dazed Ali and Killed King's Dream by Jack Cashill

IMDAZED
03-25-2011, 11:40 AM
Jesus Christ, this is horrible. WTF?!?!?

Steak
03-25-2011, 03:39 PM
I dont understand how history can so casually pass over something so serious and horrible like this.

Thank you for bringing this information to light.

RubenSonny
03-25-2011, 06:06 PM
Thanks Mike, does this conclude the Ali betraying X thread from a while back? I'm doing some work at the moment so I'll give it thorough read when I have the chance.

pacquia0
03-25-2011, 07:51 PM
The Vietnam war was not just. Anyone who refused the draft is not a coward.

The My Lai Massacre was one of many massacres the occurred during the Vietnam War. On the morning of March 16, 1968, the three companies under Task Force Barker headed southwest toward My Lai on a search and destroy mission. They were to seek out the 48th Battalion of the NLF (National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam), who were thought to have retreated and taking refuge in the village of Song My. The Song My village consisted of several hamlets which were labeled by the U.S as My Lai 1, 2, 3, and 4. Leading the first company, the Charlie Company, was Lieutenant William Calley. For their first month in Vietnam, they had not had direct enemy contact. As Calley and his men leaped from the choppers, they began releasing the anger that had been building up inside of them for weeks on the inhabitants of My Lai [Belknap, the Vietnam War on Trial]. For the four hours that followed, the Charlie Company unleashed one of the worst massacres in the annals of American Warfare. Hundreds of Vietnamese men, women, and children were raped, mutilated, butchered, and murdered. The soldiers seemed to have gone mad and proceeded to shot anything that moved. Houses were blown up with grenades, old men were bayoneted, praying women were shot in the head, and girls were raped and killed.

If Ali had participated in this would he be a hero in your eyes?

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., described the Vietnam conflict as racist—"a white man's war, a black man's fight." King maintained that black youths represented a disproportionate share of early draftees and that African Americans faced a much greater chance of seeing combat.

Ray Robinson is bipolar and all he offers is an opinion. He even says that he doesnt know for sure.

Ziggy Stardust
03-25-2011, 10:11 PM
The Vietnam war was not just. Anyone who refused the draft is not a coward.

The My Lai Massacre was one of many massacres the occurred during the Vietnam War. On the morning of March 16, 1968, the three companies under Task Force Barker headed southwest toward My Lai on a search and destroy mission. They were to seek out the 48th Battalion of the NLF (National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam), who were thought to have retreated and taking refuge in the village of Song My. The Song My village consisted of several hamlets which were labeled by the U.S as My Lai 1, 2, 3, and 4. Leading the first company, the Charlie Company, was Lieutenant William Calley. For their first month in Vietnam, they had not had direct enemy contact. As Calley and his men leaped from the choppers, they began releasing the anger that had been building up inside of them for weeks on the inhabitants of My Lai [Belknap, the Vietnam War on Trial]. For the four hours that followed, the Charlie Company unleashed one of the worst massacres in the annals of American Warfare. Hundreds of Vietnamese men, women, and children were raped, mutilated, butchered, and murdered. The soldiers seemed to have gone mad and proceeded to shot anything that moved. Houses were blown up with grenades, old men were bayoneted, praying women were shot in the head, and girls were raped and killed.

If Ali had participated in this would he be a hero in your eyes?

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., described the Vietnam conflict as racist—"a white man's war, a black man's fight." King maintained that black youths represented a disproportionate share of early draftees and that African Americans faced a much greater chance of seeing combat.

Ray Robinson is bipolar and all he offers is an opinion. He even says that he doesnt know for sure.

Hit the trail Ho Chi Minh. Anyone who pops a cap in a Commie's azz is doing the world a favor.

pacquia0
03-26-2011, 08:49 AM
Hit the trail Ho Chi Minh. Anyone who pops a cap in a Commie's azz is doing the world a favor.

Im not a communist nor do I sympathise with the ideology. I object to the murder and rape of innocent people though.

Ziggy Stardust
03-26-2011, 01:47 PM
Im not a communist nor do I sympathise with the ideology. I object to the murder and rape of innocent people though.

Then you're b1tching about the wrong people: The rape and murder of innocent people are the Communists' stock in trade.

Poet

RFPROBOX
03-27-2011, 02:44 PM
I dont understand how history can so casually pass over something so serious and horrible like this.

Thank you for bringing this information to light.

It's ignored because of politically correct liberals and a racist president Obama. Those people are the worst in the history of this country and maybe the world. Thet make Hitler look like a saint. Those nation of islam muslims ruined this country and they all should be shipped back to Africa if that's what they want. This country was great until those cowards came into the picture.

RubenSonny
03-27-2011, 02:47 PM
It's ignored because of politically correct liberals and a racist president Obama. Those people are the worst in the history of this country and maybe the world. Thet make Hitler look like a saint. Those nation of islam muslims ruined this country and they all should be shipped back to Africa if that's what they want. This country was great until those cowards came into the picture.

:lol1: you think Obamas few years in power have made these facts ignored, how do they make Hitler look like a saint?

RubenSonny
03-27-2011, 03:05 PM
:bottle: There was nothing racist about what I posted. Typical crybaby who thinks the world owes you something.

I admit I read it wrong at first, its just stupid.

They are scum. I'm old ernough to remember the trash with their bow ties and bean pies. Obama is a closet Muslim who wasn't even born in the united states.

So you cant explain how they are worse than Hitler then? So what if he wasn't born in the USA? Even if he is a closet Muslim what does that have to do with the NOI and you don't have any evidence to conclude that he has covered these facts up.

NChristo
03-27-2011, 03:10 PM
They are scum. I'm old ernough to remember the trash with their bow ties and bean pies. Obama is a closet Muslim who wasn't even born in the united states.

Obama being a supposed 'closet Muslim' makes Hitler look like a saint ?.

Are we talking about the same Hitler here ?, funny tache, killed millions of people, genocide, ein Fuhrer, zeig heil and all that jazz ?, I think you might be getting him confused with someone else if you think Obama is worse then him.

Just Saying.

RFPROBOX
03-27-2011, 03:26 PM
Obama being a supposed 'closet Muslim' makes Hitler look like a saint ?.

Are we talking about the same Hitler here ?, funny tache, killed millions of people, genocide, ein Fuhrer, zeig heil and all that jazz ?, I think you might be getting him confused with someone else if you think Obama is worse then him.

Just Saying.

Thats not what I said.

RubenSonny
03-27-2011, 03:41 PM
So what if he wasn't born in the US? By law he shouldnt be president if he wasnt born in the US. That makes him a con artist and a sham. Him being a muslim has a lot to do with it. Thats why he protects the nation of islam. they are worse than hitler, the nazis, and the klan because they get a pass for being black. They think the world owes them something. You have to work hard to get what you want in this country. They still dont realize that. They are LAZY cowards.

No one gives them a pass, its just no one cares about them because they are irrelevant now, I think your the only one who thinks what they did was worse than killing millions of people.

You have also no proof that Obama is protecting them other than your suspicions that hes a Muslim, which is extremely weak proof even if true, it just sounds like you've got some bottled up anger for no reason, maybe you should get out more or buy a stress ball.

RubenSonny
03-28-2011, 06:26 AM
I think you need to realize they were scum and still are just like Farkahan, Jessie and Al. Stop making excuses for the bad apples and race hustlers of America.

I'm not, I think Farakhan is an evil piece of ****, it doesnt stop your claims from being bogus, what does Jesse and Al have to do with anything.....I guess I was right.....you need to get out more.

Toney616
03-30-2011, 01:09 PM
Jesus Christ, this is horrible. WTF?!?!?
Elijah actually thought he was a divine prophet and that he had the power to give and take life

Toney616
03-30-2011, 01:11 PM
I dont understand how history can so casually pass over something so serious and horrible like this.

Thank you for bringing this information to light.
Your welcome

I can see why Ali biographers overlook it, otherwise they would have to start asking a lot of serious questions about Ali's involvement with such a insane cult

Toney616
03-30-2011, 01:13 PM
Thanks Mike, does this conclude the Ali betraying X thread from a while back? I'm doing some work at the moment so I'll give it thorough read when I have the chance.
I wasn't even thinking along those lines but you have given me a idea for another thread. Ali betraying Malcolm would be the beginning, Ali goes to war the middle and how the nation sucked Ali dry would be a good way to cap these threads off

BattlingNelson
03-30-2011, 02:15 PM
Good read again. Thanks for posting.

What are the sources? Is it ghosts of Manila and The Hard left hook....?

No doubt that Elijah was a charlatan. I knew that. Still this presents some new angles that I never heard before. Angles that kinda conflicts Ali's own account in his book as far as I recall.

Toney616
04-01-2011, 12:13 PM
Good read again. Thanks for posting.

Your welcome

What are the sources? Is it ghosts of Manila and The Hard left hook....?
Yeah. Those are the two books I got the info from

No doubt that Elijah was a charlatan. I knew that. Still this presents some new angles that I never heard before. Angles that kinda conflicts Ali's own account in his book as far as I recall.
Its not in Ali's interest to tell this side of the story

GJC
04-02-2011, 12:54 AM
They are scum. I'm old ernough to remember the trash with their bow ties and bean pies. Obama is a closet Muslim who wasn't even born in the united states.
So you're not 21 then? That's the problem when you invent an alt it's so hard keeping track. Does seem to be a habit of klit fans that they have to have 50 identities each. Still it would explain the ppv numbers I guess