View Full Version : Overrated and underrated wins.


RubenSonny
03-23-2011, 10:59 AM
Holyfield over Tyson is an excellent win but very overrated, the same can be said for Sanchez over Nelson.

Whitakers win JCV is hugely underrated and a very good win a 154, add Haglers win over Hamsho to that.

New England
03-23-2011, 11:42 AM
shane over margarito
the only remarkable aspect of the fight was the stoppage of an iron chinned man.

margarito looked like they were taking him to jail when he walked into the ring.

IronDanHamza
03-23-2011, 12:05 PM
Morales Vs Zaragoza.

Yeah Zaragoza was 40 and at the end of his career but he was coming off a winning streak and was ranked #2 at Super Bantam and people forget Morales was only 21 at the time, pretty much a kid, in his first title fight of his career.

Obviously he has much better wins like Barrera an Pacqiauo etc but this win is underrated IMO.

Barn
03-23-2011, 02:39 PM
Leonard vs Duran II.

Because, of the circumstances it ended in and Duran being out of shape people discredit this win. It is still a W over Duran at Welterweight no matter the circumstances!!!!

IMDAZED
03-23-2011, 03:10 PM
Holyfield over Tyson is an excellent win but very overrated, the same can be said for Sanchez over Nelson.

Whitakers win JCV is hugely underrated and a very good win a 154, add Haglers win over Hamsho to that.

Aww man, great call on all three. Gimem a sec, I like this thread!

RubenSonny
03-23-2011, 03:13 PM
Aww man, great call on all three. Gimem a sec, I like this thread!

Nice to see you in this section bro :fing02:

SCtrojansbaby
03-23-2011, 03:17 PM
Roy Jones over Virgil Hill and Mike McCallum. Yes both were old but at the time they were both legit top 5 light heavies

IMDAZED
03-23-2011, 03:31 PM
Calzaghe's wins over Eubank and Hopkins

Kelly Pavlik's win over Jermain Taylor.

Any Mike Tyson victory

All overrated.

RubenSonny
03-23-2011, 03:38 PM
Calzaghe's wins over Eubank and Hopkins

Kelly Pavlik's win over Jermain Taylor.

Any Mike Tyson victory

All overrated.

Pavliks first win over Taylor was definately overrated I think the second one was underrated and showed the kid had some smarts about him. Agree with the rest, but Mike Tyson was naturally gonna be overrated for the most part, there has sort of been a reverse effect to some degree, the same with Prince Naseem. I will add to that Pacs win over Morales.

RubenSonny
03-23-2011, 03:43 PM
Listons wins against Folley and Machen are very underrated.

EMSLDB
03-23-2011, 04:40 PM
shane mosley vs john john molina was underatted

BigStereotype
03-24-2011, 02:46 AM
Pacquiao-Morales II

I know Morales was old but he looked game as hell for that fight. Honestly, I don't know what was more impressive: Pacquiao's whirlwind assault or Morales' ridiculous toughness. Morales really has an ATG chin. Even old and beat up, he withstood that barrage for 10 rounds.

chillifists
03-24-2011, 05:20 AM
Underated: Morales-Pacquiao I

Overated: Pacquaio-Morales II

BigStereotype
03-24-2011, 05:35 AM
Underated: Morales-Pacquiao I

Overated: Pacquaio-Morales II

Nobody (but me, it seems) lends any credence at all to the second Pac-Morales fight. And a lot of people think that the first one was Morales' best win. So...what?

RubenSonny
03-24-2011, 09:11 AM
Nobody (but me, it seems) lends any credence at all to the second Pac-Morales fight. And a lot of people think that the first one was Morales' best win. So...what?

He got his ass beat by Raheem.

IronDanHamza
03-24-2011, 09:27 AM
Nobody (but me, it seems) lends any credence at all to the second Pac-Morales fight. And a lot of people think that the first one was Morales' best win. So...what?

Like Ruben pointed out he gets little credit because he was coming off the most one sided beat down of his entire career, one he was expected to win.

Morales' best win was Pacqiauo but that was evidently his last horrah. After the 2nd loss to Barrera, beating Pacqiauo was all he had left, the Raheem fight concluded that.

Daddy T
03-24-2011, 09:39 AM
pacs win over de la hoya is very underated. Before the fight everybody was saying it was a mismatch and that de la hoya was just looking for an easy big money win over a much smaller guy - few called that pac would completely destroy him and then after the event the excuses that de la hoya was over the hill and drained etc abounded to try and take from the achievement despite the fact that de la hoya himself said he wasn't drained and that he was beaten fair and square.

BigStereotype
03-24-2011, 09:41 AM
Like Ruben pointed out he gets little credit because he was coming off the most one sided beat down of his entire career, one he was expected to win.

Morales' best win was Pacqiauo but that was evidently his last horrah. After the 2nd loss to Barrera, beating Pacqiauo was all he had left, the Raheem fight concluded that.

He got his ass beat by Raheem.

Haven't seen that fight but I know what happens. He didn't look too bad second time against Pac, though. I don't know, I was just impressed by both fighters while I was watching it.

IronDanHamza
03-24-2011, 09:44 AM
pacs win over de la hoya is very underated. Before the fight everybody was saying it was a mismatch and that de la hoya was just looking for an easy big money win over a much smaller guy - few called that pac would completely destroy him and then after the event the excuses that de la hoya was over the hill and drained etc abounded to try and take from the achievement despite the fact that de la hoya himself said he wasn't drained and that he was beaten fair and square.

Oscar has said on multiple occasions he was weight drained and struggled to make weight. Plus, It's abundently clear he was dead in there.


Oscar had no business fighting at 147, and that's all there is to it.

Tamis!
03-24-2011, 09:48 AM
Terry Norris' win over John Mugabi was underrated IMO.

SCtrojansbaby
03-24-2011, 10:47 AM
Like Ruben pointed out he gets little credit because he was coming off the most one sided beat down of his entire career, one he was expected to win.

Morales' best win was Pacqiauo but that was evidently his last horrah. After the 2nd loss to Barrera, beating Pacqiauo was all he had left, the Raheem fight concluded that.

Morales best win is Barrera

IMDAZED
03-24-2011, 10:52 AM
In terms of Pac, his win over Cotto is underrated IMO. What a performance. His wins over Morales are highly overrated.

IronDanHamza
03-24-2011, 11:20 AM
Morales best win is Barrera

That's debatable.

SCtrojansbaby
03-24-2011, 11:37 AM
That's debatable.

Yes it is.

Tamis!
03-24-2011, 11:41 AM
In terms of Pac, his win over Cotto is underrated IMO. What a performance. His wins over Morales are highly overrated.

I really hated the 3rd fight on how too much hype was generated hence the goofy fanboys mate.

IMDAZED
03-24-2011, 11:56 AM
I really hated the 3rd fight on how too much hype was generated hence the goofy fanboys mate.

Fanboys hype up anything. Even the second fight was a joke.

BigStereotype
03-24-2011, 02:28 PM
Morales best win is Barrera

You really think he won the first fight? Or do you give him credit for the second fight? Because I don't think there is any way in hell he deserved the nod for their first bout.

The Surgeon
03-24-2011, 05:40 PM
Pac's wins over Morales are over rated, 3 in particular i agree

Montiel's win over Hasegawa is over rated

Fernando Vargas' win over Ike Quartey is under rated a touch i think

goblin213
03-24-2011, 06:41 PM
Ricardo Lopez's win over Saman Sorjaturong is an underrated win imo. They didn't fight at the weight class where Saman shined but still Lopez blew him away.

chillifists
03-25-2011, 05:17 AM
Nobody (but me, it seems) lends any credence at all to the second Pac-Morales fight. And a lot of people think that the first one was Morales' best win. So...what?

Morales best days were well past him even leading into the 1st Pac fight. Pac has become the new kid on the block with momentum on his side and was expected to beat the aging Morales.

But what is fair is fair, in the second fight Morales despite on the decline was still very game and I think it was in this fight was a perfect opportunity where Pac was able to make more adjustments than Morales. The wars caught up to the elder Erik Morales who was stopped for the first time against the younger, fresher, stronger Pac.

Like Ruben pointed out he gets little credit because he was coming off the most one sided beat down of his entire career, one he was expected to win.

Morales' best win was Pacqiauo but that was evidently his last horrah. After the 2nd loss to Barrera, beating Pacqiauo was all he had left, the Raheem fight concluded that.

Very nicely put there. Pac should have beatin Morales the first fight and was beat at his own game. Morales was fighting past his best weight, moved up even higher to get beat by Raheem, to then loose weight at his age for Pac to finally beat Morales.

But then again..I feel many of Pacs recent wins been slightly overrated as they look much more impressive on paper.

RubenSonny
03-25-2011, 05:20 AM
Ledwaba is a nice win thats often underrated for Pacquiao, especially since he took it on short notice.

chillifists
03-25-2011, 05:26 AM
Another that just came to me is Calzaghe-Hopkins.

This fight gets underrated big time as I feel based on Calzaghe past critizism and Hopkins past accomplishments get in the way of this victory.

People like to point to Hopkins's age, but that is credit to how freakish Hopins is. He may be up there in age but he was also up there in P4P rankings (still is). His age didn't stop him from piling the performances before and after Calzaghe. Sure Hopkins gave Calzaghe one of his toughest fights but given a good effort isn't always enough, not to mention I have never seen Hopkins look so frustrated and defeated before.

RubenSonny
03-25-2011, 05:55 AM
Roy Jones over Virgil Hill and Mike McCallum. Yes both were old but at the time they were both legit top 5 light heavies

I don't see how the McCallum win is underrated, Mike was in terrible shape and past prime but still managed to go the full 12.

Scott9945
03-25-2011, 11:02 AM
I don't see how the McCallum win is underrated, Mike was in terrible shape and past prime but still managed to go the full 12.

I've always thought that Roy carried McCallum in that fight.

IMDAZED
03-25-2011, 11:42 AM
I don't see how the McCallum win is underrated, Mike was in terrible shape and past prime but still managed to go the full 12.

Yeah, if anything that win is overrated. As soon as I heard Roy mention him in "Y'all Musta Forgot" I was like "huh?" McCallum had tits, for God's sake.

RubenSonny
03-25-2011, 11:49 AM
I've always thought that Roy carried McCallum in that fight.

I don't know about that, I watched the fight once years ago and refuse to watch it again, so forgive my memory, McCallum is one of my favourites.

Yeah, if anything that win is overrated. As soon as I heard Roy mention him in "Y'all Musta Forgot" I was like "huh?" McCallum had tits, for God's sake.

Yeah :lol1: When I was a kid, I remember when everyone would watch his highlights and everyone thought McCallum was just a hopeless bum, when they showed the knockdown clip.

IMDAZED
03-25-2011, 12:03 PM
I don't know about that, I watched the fight once years ago and refuse to watch it again, so forgive my memory, McCallum is one of my favourites.



Yeah :lol1: When I was a kid, I remember when everyone would watch his highlights and everyone thought McCallum was just a hopeless bum, when they showed the knockdown clip.

And even at that stage, McCallum was giving Roy problems. I don't think Roy carried him as much as it was he respected him. How could he not? McCallum was able to throw him off with his jab and use of distance. I think Jones learned a lot in that bout.

IronDanHamza
03-25-2011, 12:05 PM
Ledwaba is a nice win thats often underrated for Pacquiao, especially since he took it on short notice.

Oh most definitely. People forget about this win because of the names he went on to beat but this win if by far better the either Morales win IMO.

IMDAZED
03-25-2011, 12:09 PM
Oh most definitely. People forget about this win because of the names he went on to beat but this win if by far better the either Morales win IMO.

It was a shocker to me. I liked Ledwaba alot. I remember my big bro - after that fight - kept saying "this Pacquiao guy is gonna be great. Wow!" And I just looked at him like :rolleyes:. Way to go, me.

RubenSonny
03-25-2011, 12:16 PM
And even at that stage, McCallum was giving Roy problems. I don't think Roy carried him as much as it was he respected him. How could he not? McCallum was able to throw him off with his jab and use of distance. I think Jones learned a lot in that bout.

McCallum still had the skills of course, he fought so he didn't have to rely on his physicality so much, and it showed in his fight with Toney (McCallum always had his number even if he didn't beat him and it would've been a different story had he been prime), but there was no way on earth that version of Mike would beat a prime Jones.

IronDanHamza
03-25-2011, 12:34 PM
Ken Buchanan's win over Frankie Navarez.

Navarez wasn't in the golden age of his career but Buchanan was only 24 years of age when he fought him and at the time Navarez was considered Top 10 and had been for quite a few years. Also having a ton of experience whilst Buchanan being reasonably inexperienced at the time, atleast at world level.

An underrated win IMO. Well, Ken Buchanan is underrated in general.

RubenSonny
03-25-2011, 12:36 PM
Ken Buchanan's win over Frankie Navarez.

Navarez wasn't in the golden age of his career but Buchanan was only 24 years of age when he fought him and at the time Navarez was considered Top 10 and had been for quite a few years. Also having a ton of experience whilst Buchanan being reasonably inexperienced at the time, atleast at world level.

An underrated win IMO. Well, Ken Buchanan is underrated in general.

Agreed, excellent choice.

Tamis!
03-25-2011, 03:40 PM
Ruben Olivares' win over Jose Luis Ramirez is underrated IMO.

Learned about Olivares thru my uncle, who's a fan of the ATG bantamweight.

jtiger777
03-25-2011, 03:47 PM
Ricardo Lopez's win over Saman Sorjaturong is an underrated win imo. They didn't fight at the weight class where Saman shined but still Lopez blew him away.

Ricardo Lopez's win over Saman Sorjaturong this is my pick for underrated

why is lopez so underrated?

IMDAZED
03-25-2011, 04:01 PM
Ricardo Lopez's win over Saman Sorjaturong this is my pick for underrated

why is lopez so underrated?
Not hard to overlook someone that small.

BennyST
03-29-2011, 03:05 AM
Ledwaba is a nice win thats often underrated for Pacquiao, especially since he took it on short notice.

Oh most definitely. People forget about this win because of the names he went on to beat but this win if by far better the either Morales win IMO.

I've always thought that was one of his most consistently overrated wins. Ledwaba had done nothing in his career, and beaten no one of note whatsoever, leading into that fight and then did nothing after and retired after one or two more crappy wins. He'd been KO'd by some hack before that, got knocked out by Pac and got knocked out by another bum after losing some more fights in between.

I've never understood why people still bring that up as an great win for him, or as an underrated win? Underrated how? It's not as if Ledwaba is underrated. He is, and was, hugely overrated just because his fans feel the need to bring that win up as something good. Apart from just fighting Pac, he did all of nothing in his very short reign as an alphabet titlist. He beat absolutely no one of any consequence at all apart from a shot Bungu, which was after Pac anyway. Before that, he had not beaten a single top ranked, good fighter and won a vacant paper title.

Considering he'd been knocked out in a couple of rounds before fighting Pac and went on to get beaten by the only prime fighters he faced in his whole career during and after that fight, I'd say that is one of Pac's most overrated wins. He fought three prime, top fighter and lost to all of them as well being stopped by a couple of bums before and after the Pac fight. There is nothing underrated about it....always spun me out as to why people often bring that one up as some kind of great, overlooked win.

It'd be like saying the Jorge Solis win is underrated for Pac. Guys beat him easier than Pac did and he just wasn't good to start with anyway. Winning a vacant title against some dude and then defending it three or four times against top fifty rated hacks in your hometown doesn't equal being good.

RubenSonny
03-29-2011, 03:41 AM
I've always thought that was one of his most consistently overrated wins. Ledwaba had done nothing in his career, and beaten no one of note whatsoever, leading into that fight and then did nothing after and retired after one or two more crappy wins. He'd been KO'd by some hack before that, got knocked out by Pac and got knocked out by another bum after losing some more fights in between.

I've never understood why people still bring that up as an great win for him, or as an underrated win? Underrated how? It's not as if Ledwaba is underrated. He is, and was, hugely overrated just because his fans feel the need to bring that win up as something good. Apart from just fighting Pac, he did all of nothing in his very short reign as an alphabet titlist. He beat absolutely no one of any consequence at all apart from a shot Bungu, which was after Pac anyway. Before that, he had not beaten a single top ranked, good fighter and won a vacant paper title.

Considering he'd been knocked out in a couple of rounds before fighting Pac and went on to get beaten by the only prime fighters he faced in his whole career during and after that fight, I'd say that is one of Pac's most overrated wins. He fought three prime, top fighter and lost to all of them as well being stopped by a couple of bums before and after the Pac fight. There is nothing underrated about it....always spun me out as to why people often bring that one up as some kind of great, overlooked win.

It'd be like saying the Jorge Solis win is underrated for Pac. Guys beat him easier than Pac did and he just wasn't good to start with anyway. Winning a vacant title against some dude and then defending it three or four times against top fifty rated hacks in your hometown doesn't equal being good.

Thats fair enough, I was thinking just before I read this that some are obviously going to be diverse in opinion dude to experience but it was suppose to be a fun thread, not to serious. When I watched the fight, I was a kid living in the US at the time and I remember everyone in my family liked Ledwaba and he was an HBO fighter that was getting a bit of hype and was a top contender at the time, and heres this kid coming in on 2 weeks notice and runs through Ledwaba like its nothing, it was shocking. No ones making Ledwaba out to be some kind of ATG career defining win or anything, I was just overly impressed at the time and I've never really had a conversation about it in years with anyone, infact this thread is probably the most I've ever spoke on it, thus why I call it underrated.

SCtrojansbaby
03-29-2011, 04:10 AM
Nas win over Bungu is WAAAAAAAAAAAY underrated.

Jack Napier
03-29-2011, 04:19 AM
Moorer's victory over Holyfield is very overrated
people make a big deal of it because of Teddy Atlas' corner speeches
but Moorer just barely pinched a majority call
he could very well have lost that decision

and in turn, Foreman's win over Moorer was overrated
Moorer was known to have a questionable chin
Foreman wasn't shot in his comeback career, he was just older
he might have been a better fighter then than he was in his prime
Foreman becoming champ at 45 inflates that win to more than it's worth

IronDanHamza
03-29-2011, 11:57 AM
Thats fair enough, I was thinking just before I read this that some are obviously going to be diverse in opinion dude to experience but it was suppose to be a fun thread, not to serious. When I watched the fight, I was a kid living in the US at the time and I remember everyone in my family liked Ledwaba and he was an HBO fighter that was getting a bit of hype and was a top contender at the time, and heres this kid coming in on 2 weeks notice and runs through Ledwaba like its nothing, it was shocking. No ones making Ledwaba out to be some kind of ATG career defining win or anything, I was just overly impressed at the time and I've never really had a conversation about it in years with anyone, infact this thread is probably the most I've ever spoke on it, thus why I call it underrated.

I agree.

It's more to do with the fact Pacquaio was in his early 20's fighting a Top 5 titlst at SuperBantam, one that had been a titlst for quite a while, albeit he wasn't the Lineal Champion but he was ranked in the Top 5.

Then to take into account how he did it. Is an underrated win in my eyes.

Not underrated because its an amazing win and should be adknowledged as one. Underrated because no one really knows about it. When taking everything account is deserves some recognition.

Jim Jeffries
03-29-2011, 02:27 PM
Hatton's win over Tszyu. Kostya had 2 fights in the 3 years leading up to it, and even then Ricky needed the help of the ref to mug him for 11 rounds. Ricky wasn't a bad fighter, but he never lived up to the #4 p4p ranking that that fight propelled him to.

SCtrojansbaby
03-29-2011, 05:44 PM
Hatton's win over Tszyu. Kostya had 2 fights in the 3 years leading up to it, and even then Ricky needed the help of the ref to mug him for 11 rounds. Ricky wasn't a bad fighter, but he never lived up to the #4 p4p ranking that that fight propelled him to.

I agree with this

$BloodyNate$
03-30-2011, 02:20 AM
Overrated- Manny over Margarito. Margarito either lost it because of the wraps or lost it because of the year layoff. He was not good at all in that first fight back to even make one think he had a shot in that fight.

Floyd over Shane. 5 years too late and still got chin checked.

Calzaghe over Kessler & Lacey, Hopkins over Pavlik. Love Hopkins but in recent fights both wins have been proven less steller. Kessler hasn't look good since before that fight. Neither has Pavlik really although at times he did give Sergio a good fight. But then again you never know, maybe Hopkins and Joe ruined their careers with those fights.

Lennox Lewis over Tyson- Not all the time but a lot of times I see Lewis fans trying to add this win to his resume like it's something special. Biitch late 80's early 90's Tyson would have sent him to the hospital into a coma.

Underrated- Roy Jones over Toney- seems like everybody's starting to say Roy Jones had one great win over Hopkins and the rest were tomatoe cans. But not only did Jones beat young prime Toney, HE MADE HIM LOOK LIKE AN AMATEUR!!! He completely embarrassed Toney. ATG performance right there.

Devon Alexander's win over Juan Urango & Junior Witter. I've heard numerous people say he hits like a biitch. He made Witter QUIT who was at once a legitmate contender. Urango was a monster too. Not the most skilled but hit hard as ***** and not even Berto or Hatton came close to stopping him and Devon just floored him like it was nothing.

Thomas Hearns trashed Roberto Duran. 2 rounds was all it took for Hearns to knock him the **** out! Don't really hear about this fight much and when I do I hear some bull***** like Hearns was too big. Well Duran just went the distance with Hagler the fight before. It's like Hopkins vs De La Hoya & Trinidad. If they would have won, it would have been like Pac "Duran is the greatest of all time!" but since he lost "well it was suppose to happen, not that special beating on a little man."

IronDanHamza
12-13-2012, 02:22 PM
Harold Johnson's wins over Valdez, Machen and Bert Lytell are great and underrated wins.

jabsRstiff
12-13-2012, 02:36 PM
Overrated? Oscar DeLaHoya-JC Chavez I...

Chavez came into the fight with a cut over his eye that was immediatley opened by a routine jab. Chavez bled like a stuck pig and had no shot against his younger and bigger foe. The next day I read about the pure slaughter of a former great by the near- future great.