View Full Version : Personal top 20 favs


The Surgeon
03-20-2011, 08:12 AM
Lists are Brutal, these kind in particular but **** it, id like to see u guys top 20 FAVOURITE fighters. Very difficult list to put together but lets give it a go

Heres my attempt and alot of these are interchanngeable but it goes a bit like this

1. Mike Tyson
2. Joe Louis
3. Roberto Duran
4. Miguel Cotto
5. Joe Frazier
6. Felix Trinidad
7. Juan Marquez
8. Erik Morales
9. Nigel Benn
10. Roy Jones
11. Jamie Moore
12. Aaron Pryor
13. Riddick Bowe
15. Marvin Hagler
16. Roberto Duran
17. Gerald Mclellan
18. Arturo Gatti
19. James Toney
20. Ike Ibeabuchi


God that was brutal leaving guys like Liston, Naz, Tapia, Holyfield, Ali, SRL, Barrera, Sanchez, Gomez, Corrales, Archie Moore, Dempsey, Hearns - ect ect ect!

I had to re do that list 3 times and im still struggling ask me tommorow and it will be different but thats roughly it

IronDanHamza
03-20-2011, 08:15 AM
As in a ranked list? or just your 20 favourie?

The Surgeon
03-20-2011, 08:17 AM
As in a ranked list? or just your 20 favourie?

Ranked in order of ur preference, 1 being ur favourite fighter. And just seeing u has reminded me Alexis hasnt made my list! Like i said their brutal

IronDanHamza
03-20-2011, 08:29 AM
Ranked in order of ur preference, 1 being ur favourite fighter. And just seeing u has reminded me Alexis hasnt made my list! Like i said their brutal

Ahhh, I know putting it into 20 as a difficult task, but here goes;

1. Alexis Arguello
2. Carlos Monzon
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Sugar Ray Leonard
5. Mike Tyson
6. Emile Griffith
7. Wilfred Benitez
8. Floyd Mayweather Jr
9. Roy Jones Jr
10. Joe Louis
11. Charley Burley
12. Sugar Ray Robinson
13. George Benton
15. Tommy Hearns
16. Roberto Duran
17. Chris Eubank
18. Ken Norton
19. Felix Trinidad
20. Terry Norris

The Surgeon
03-20-2011, 08:45 AM
Ahhh, I know putting it into 20 as a difficult task, but here goes;

1. Alexis Arguello
2. Carlos Monzon
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Sugar Ray Leonard
5. Mike Tyson
6. Emile Griffith
7. Wilfred Benitez
8. Floyd Mayweather Jr
9. Roy Jones Jr
10. Joe Louis
11. Charley Burley
12. Sugar Ray Robinson
13. George Benton
15. Tommy Hearns
16. Roberto Duran
17. Chris Eubank
18. Ken Norton
19. Felix Trinidad
20. Terry Norris

Nice list, then again i think most people will like pretty much everyones list of fighters, its just squashing it down to a personally top 20 thats hard!

No Ali? Surprising. Thought id be the only one with him absent

Barn
03-20-2011, 09:22 AM
1.Marvin Hagler
2.Joe Frazier
3.Carmen Basilio
4.Ken Buchanan
5.Ezzard Charles
6.Joe Louis
7.Sam Langford
8.Alexis Arguello
9.Aaron Pryor
10.Roberto Duran
11.Archie Moore
12.Kid Gavilan
13.Sandy Saddler
14.Barney Ross
15.Thomas Hearns
16.Max Schmeling
17.Pernell Whitaker
18.Jerry Quarry
19.Willie Pep
20.Jim Watt

Honourable Mentions: Liston, Dempsey, Marciano, Sugar Ray Leonard and Carlos Monzon

The Surgeon
03-20-2011, 09:34 AM
1.Marvin Hagler
2.Joe Frazier
3.Carmen Basilio
4.Ken Buchanan
5.Ezzard Charles
6.Joe Louis
7.Sam Langford
8.Alexis Arguello
9.Aaron Pryor
10.Roberto Duran
11.Archie Moore
12.Kid Gavilan
13.Sandy Saddler
14.Barney Ross
15.Thomas Hearns
16.Max Schmeling
17.Pernell Whitaker
18.Jerry Quarry
19.Willie Pep
20.Jim Watt

Honourable Mentions: Liston, Dempsey, Marciano, Sugar Ray Leonard and Carlos Monzon Didnt expect to see Schmeling or Watt pop up but each to his own, im sure some of my picks seem odd too.

Most of mine are more modern, and thats purely because i feel a stronger connection with modern fighters having watched them live, come through the ranks and got the buzz around them during big fight weeks and stuff

SCtrojansbaby
03-20-2011, 10:23 AM
look at my signiture

Barn
03-20-2011, 10:53 AM
Didnt expect to see Schmeling or Watt pop up but each to his own, im sure some of my picks seem odd too.

Most of mine are more modern, and thats purely because i feel a stronger connection with modern fighters having watched them live, come through the ranks and got the buzz around them during big fight weeks and stuff
Why not?

Schmeling was a very noble person who hated being a Nazi pawn and looked after two Jewish children from the ghettos. Also he used to irritate Hitler and stood up to him.
The fact he helped pay for Louis' funeral says something about the man also.

RubenSonny
03-20-2011, 10:56 AM
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Azumah Nelson
4. Johnny Tapia
5. Pernell Whitaker
6. Sam Langford
7. Jack Johnson
8. Marvin Hagler
9. Eddie Booker
10. Ezzard Charles
11. Willie Pep
12. Mike McCallum
13. Juan Manuel Marquez
14. Ray Robinson
15. Eder Jofre
16. Roy Jones
17. Dwight Muhammad Qawi
18. Joe Frazier
19. Roberto Duran
20. Joseph Agbeko

Some I enjoy reading about.

IronDanHamza
03-20-2011, 11:19 AM
Nice list, then again i think most people will like pretty much everyones list of fighters, its just squashing it down to a personally top 20 thats hard!

No Ali? Surprising. Thought id be the only one with him absent

I dislike Muhammad Ali, with a passion. :lol1:

I identify his greatness and have the world of respect for him. But really, reallyyyy dislike the guy.

I missed out James Toney an Dwight Muhammad Quawi. I HAVE to atleast mention those two.

Barn
03-20-2011, 11:20 AM
I dislike Muhammad Ali, with a passion. :lol1:

I identify his greatness and have the world of respect for him. But really, reallyyyy dislike the guy.

I missed out James Toney an Dwight Muhammad Quawi. I HAVE to atleast mention those two.
I am with you on the Ali front haha.

It's a shame 'cause he's a really likeable guy.

Marchegiano
03-20-2011, 11:24 AM
Dude, making lists is basically my favorite thing to do here. In order of how much I like them. Not skills....just making sure I've got the rules right.

1. Rocco Francis Marchegiano.
2. Sam Langford
3. Joe Louis
4. Mike Tyson
5. Archie Moore
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Andy Bowen/Jack Burke
8. David Tua
9. John Sullivan
10. Bernard Hopkins
11. Joe Frazier
12. Ray Robinson
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Ike Ibeabuchi
15. Eric Esch
16. Roy Jones Jr
17. Jake LaMatta
18. Bob Fitzsimmons
19. James Douglas ( Yeah, one night of greatness does earn life-time fans)
20. George Foreman

Thats right, a list with Butterbean and no Ali. WTF? The **** is I simply am not a fan of running backwards and pop shotting.

I didn't really read much around the lists, and didn't realize the disdain for Ali in this thread. I just wanted to point out I've expressed my dislike for his style in prior threads...in no way did I jump on the band wagon. shame on me for reading after I post.

RubenSonny
03-20-2011, 11:29 AM
Dude, making lists is basically my favorite thing to do here. In order of how much I like them. Not skills....just making sure I've got the rules right.

1. Rocco Francis Marchegiano.
2. Sam Langford
3. Joe Louis
4. Mike Tyson
5. Archie Moore
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Andy Bowen/Jack Burke
8. David Tua
9. John Sullivan
10. Bernard Hopkins
11. Joe Frazier
12. Ray Robinson
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Ike Ibeabuchi
15. Eric Esch
16. Roy Jones Jr
17. Jake LaMatta
18. Bob Fitzsimmons
19. James Douglas ( Yeah, one night of greatness does earn life-time fans)
20. George Foreman

Thats right, a list with Butterbean and no Ali. WTF? The **** is I simply am not a fan of running backwards and pop shotting.

:pat::pat::pat:

Barn
03-20-2011, 11:29 AM
Dude, making lists is basically my favorite thing to do here. In order of how much I like them. Not skills....just making sure I've got the rules right.

1. Rocco Francis Marchegiano.
2. Sam Langford
3. Joe Louis
4. Mike Tyson
5. Archie Moore
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Andy Bowen/Jack Burke
8. David Tua
9. John Sullivan
10. Bernard Hopkins
11. Joe Frazier
12. Ray Robinson
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Ike Ibeabuchi
15. Eric Esch
16. Roy Jones Jr
17. Jake LaMatta
18. Bob Fitzsimmons
19. James Douglas ( Yeah, one night of greatness does earn life-time fans)
20. George Foreman

Thats right, a list with Butterbean and no Ali. WTF? The **** is I simply am not a fan of running backwards and pop shotting.
Jake LaMotta is a funny one, I admire his toughness chin and heart but, the things he did prevent him from being on my list.

Quarry
03-20-2011, 12:15 PM
i looked at the lists posted so far on this topic and those lists have in them fighters that there is virtually no available footage of, so i am curious to get my head around how a fighter can be someones favorite when they have seen absolutely nothing of them to make a claim that they are your favorite fighter.

RubenSonny
03-20-2011, 12:17 PM
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Azumah Nelson
4. Johnny Tapia
5. Pernell Whitaker
6. Sam Langford
7. Jack Johnson
8. Marvin Hagler
9. Eddie Booker
10. Ezzard Charles
11. Willie Pep
12. Mike McCallum
13. Juan Manuel Marquez
14. Ray Robinson
15. Eder Jofre
16. Sonny Liston
17. Dwight Muhammad Qawi
18. Joe Frazier
19. Roberto Duran
20. Joseph Agbeko

Some I enjoy reading about.

i looked at the lists posted so far on this topic and those lists have in them fighters that there is virtually no available footage of, so i am curious to get my head around how a fighter can be someones favorite when they have seen absolutely nothing of them to make a claim that they are your favorite fighter.

............................

Barn
03-20-2011, 12:52 PM
i looked at the lists posted so far on this topic and those lists have in them fighters that there is virtually no available footage of, so i am curious to get my head around how a fighter can be someones favorite when they have seen absolutely nothing of them to make a claim that they are your favorite fighter.
Read up on Sam Langford please. He is an extraordinary man who did many a great things which is why he is on my favourite lists. Despite being very little footage of him.

William Wallace is my favourite Scottish patriot...

Holtol
03-20-2011, 12:57 PM
1. George Chuvalo

2. Muhammad Ali

3. Kelly Pavlik

4. Rocky Marciano

5. Joe Frazier

6. Eric Morales

7. Evander Holyfield

8. Mike Tyson

9. Riddick Bowe

10. Roberto Duran

11. Marco Antonio Barrera

12. Joe Calzaghe

13. Arturo Gatti

14. George Forman

15. Marvin Hagler

16. Thomas Hearns

17. Manny Pacquiao

18. Max Baer

19. Sonny Liston

20. Joe Louis

Barn
03-20-2011, 01:02 PM
1. George Chuvalo

2. Muhammad Ali

3. Kelly Pavlik

4. Rocky Marciano

5. Joe Frazier

6. Eric Morales

7. Evander Holyfield

8. Mike Tyson

9. Riddick Bowe

10. Roberto Duran

11. Marco Antonio Barrera

12. Joe Calzaghe

13. Arturo Gatti

14. George Forman

15. Marvin Hagler

16. Thomas Hearns

17. Manny Paquiao

18. Gerry Cooney

19. Sonny Liston

20. Joe Louis
Hooray for George Chuvalo, completely forgot about him on my list :(

Great guy, great fighter.

Holtol
03-20-2011, 01:30 PM
Hooray for George Chuvalo, completely forgot about him on my list :(

Great guy, great fighter.

I watch all his fights. He came and spoke at my highschool in the early 90s. I forgot about Max Baer I may add him in, I have been watching more of him lately and he is great to watch.

The Surgeon
03-20-2011, 02:28 PM
look at my signiture

Post ur 11-20 then SCtrojansbaby :boxing:

The Surgeon
03-20-2011, 02:31 PM
Why not?

Schmeling was a very noble person who hated being a Nazi pawn and looked after two Jewish children from the ghettos. Also he used to irritate Hitler and stood up to him.
The fact he helped pay for Louis' funeral says something about the man also.

Just surprising, never really heard anyone saying they were a huge fan before thats all

Alot of these lists are a tad surprising actually, nice insight.

goblin213
03-20-2011, 02:38 PM
1.Roberto Duran
2.Mike Mccallum
3.Pernell Whitaker
4.Carlos Monzon
5.Floyd Mayweather Jr.
6.Jose Napoles
7.Harold Johnson
8.Juan Manuel Marquez
9.Joe Louis
10.Sugar Ray Robinson
11.Alexis Arguello
12.Eder Jofre
13.Ezzard Charles
14.Ricardo Lopez
15.Muhammad Ali
16.Myung Woo Yuh
17.Jersey Joe Walcott
18.Bernard Hopkins
19.Dick Tiger
20.James Toney

Marchegiano
03-20-2011, 04:49 PM
i looked at the lists posted so far on this topic and those lists have in them fighters that there is virtually no available footage of, so i am curious to get my head around how a fighter can be someones favorite when they have seen absolutely nothing of them to make a claim that they are your favorite fighter.

I'd agree with the idea that fights should be seen and not read when possible, but some guys you have to read about or simply deny yourself a legend. I know who in my list there is no footage of, and I stand by them. Almost any fight of note was covered by a newspaper, and any fighter of worth has a book. You get second hand experience, but second hand Langford..Sullivan. Its thrilling stuff. Honestly, the fisticuffs era is my favorite of all time. Bare Knuckle. I read today on another post referring to it as "fencing with fists". that's probably the most to-the-point name I've come across. Some times simply prizefighting. Read that **** man.

Joeyzagz
03-20-2011, 06:24 PM
P4P

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Naseem Hamed
3. Carl Froch
4. Tony Sibson
5. Sugar Ray Robinson
6. Roid Jones Juicer
7. Harry Greb
8. Ray Boom Boom Mancini
9. Hector Macho Camacho
10. Johnny Tapia

Heavyweight

1. Lennox Lewis
2. Max Schmelling
3. George Foreman
4. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. Joe Louis
6. John L Sullivan
7. Max Baer
8. Tommy Morrison
9. David Tua
10. Vitali Klitschko

CarlosG815
03-20-2011, 10:52 PM
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier
Jack Dempsey
Rocky Marciano
Oscar De La Hoya
Ted Kid Lewis
Roy Jones Jr
Marco Antonio Barrera
Prince Naseem Hamed
Ray Mancini
Tommy Hearns
Alexis Arguello
Floyd Patterson
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez
Joe Louis
Gerald McClellan
Henry Armstrong
Aaron Pryor
Ike Williams

After the first 5 it's in no particular order.

DET. IRONSIDE
03-20-2011, 11:40 PM
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Joe Louis
3. Erik Morales
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Mike Tyson
6. Roberto Duran
7. Roy Jones Jr
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Ken Norton
10. Nigel Benn
11. Prince Naseem Hamed
12. Marco Antonia Barrera
13. Oscar De La Hoya
14. Amir Khan
15. Sugar Ray Leonard
16. Marcos Maidana
17. Gary Jacobs
18. George Foreman
19. Jake La Motta
20. Jack Johnson

NChristo
03-24-2011, 06:37 PM
I hate you for having me number them. :grumpy:

1. Jose Napoles
2. Eder Jofre
3. Miguel Lora
4. Kid Gavilan
5. Carlos Monzon
6. Dwight Qawi
7. Vicente Saldivar
8. Michael Spinks
9. Nicolinno Locche
10. Alexis Arguello
11. Roberto Duran
12. Dick Tiger
13. James Toney
14. Archie Moore
15. Matthew Saad Muhammad
16. Sonny Liston
17. Rafa Marquez
18. Marvin Hagler
19. Juanma Marquez
20. Bernard Hopkins




Enjoy reading about Eddie Booker and Stanley Ketchel the most probably, haven't seen enough footage to call them my favourites though really.

Barn
03-24-2011, 07:05 PM
I hate you for having me number them. :grumpy:

1. Jose Napoles
2. Eder Jofre
3. Miguel Lora
4. Kid Gavilan
5. Carlos Monzon
6. Dwight Qawi
7. Vicente Saldivar
8. Michael Spinks
9. Nicolinno Locche
10. Alexis Arguello
11. Roberto Duran
12. Dick Tiger
13. James Toney
14. Archie Moore
15. Matthew Saad Muhammad
16. Sonny Liston
17. Rafa Marquez
18. Marvin Hagler
19. Juanma Marquez
20. Bernard Hopkins




Enjoy reading about Eddie Booker and Stanley Ketchel the most probably, haven't seen enough footage to call them my favourites though really.
Jofre at number 2?
NChristo what are you smoking?
Are you drunk?
Are you tired?













j/k :)

New England
03-24-2011, 07:14 PM
Ranked in order of ur preference, 1 being ur favourite fighter. And just seeing u has reminded me Alexis hasnt made my list! Like i said their brutal



without this stipulation i would have given a quick brainstorm of at least 20


but ranking them is going to prove too difficult


but i may put one together, yet
i may.





some TREMENDOUS lists out there, cats!


it's refreshing to see some of the less accomplished fighters being remembered so fondly.

NChristo
03-24-2011, 07:20 PM
Jofre at number 2?
NChristo what are you smoking?
Are you drunk?
Are you tired?













j/k :)

:lol1:

There's nothing between them really, I love them equally :luvbed:.

They're the only boxers who I've spent a silly amount of money on for memorabilia / footage, etc.

Napoles has probably been in more of my favourite fights, only have highlights of Jofre outside of the Medal and Harada.

As said though, **** Surgeon for making me choose. :grumble:

Ziggy Stardust
03-24-2011, 07:58 PM
1 Joe Louis
2 Alexis Arguello
3 Floyd Patterson
4 Ezzard Charles
5 Wilfred Benitez
6 Bob Fitzsimmons
7 Herol Graham
8 Sam Langford
9 Ray Robinson
10 Roberto Duran
11 Frank Bruno
12 Jeff Chandler
13 Jesse Ferguson
14 Pernell Whitaker
15 Nigel Benn
16 Azumah Nelson
17 Sonny Liston
18 Kid Gavilan
19 Antonio Cervantes
20 Marvin Hagler
21 Charley Burley
22 Jack Dempsey
23 Larry Holmes
24 Archie Moore
25 Pascual Perez

BigStereotype
03-26-2011, 12:13 AM
1. Juan Manuel Marquez
2. Marco Antonio Barrera
3. Miguel Cotto
4. Israel Vazquez
5. Rafa Marquez
6. Johnny Tapia
7. Riddick Bowe
8. Shane Mosley
9. Manny Pacquiao
10. James Toney
11. Ricky Hatton
12. Nonito Donaire
13. Julio Cesar Chavez
14. Jorge Arce
15. Erik Morales
16. Antonio Margarito (I know, I know...I don't like him but I think he's fun to watch)
17. Joe Louis
18. Arturo Gatti
19. Sugar Ray Robinson
20. Sergio Martinez

The Surgeon
03-26-2011, 06:54 AM
As said though, **** Surgeon for making me choose. :grumble:

Lol sorry dude didnt wanna make it too easy on u guys!

The Surgeon
03-26-2011, 06:57 AM
1. Juan Manuel Marquez
2. Marco Antonio Barrera
3. Miguel Cotto
4. Israel Vazquez
5. Rafa Marquez
6. Johnny Tapia
7. Riddick Bowe
8. Shane Mosley
9. Manny Pacquiao
10. James Toney
11. Ricky Hatton
12. Nonito Donaire
13. Julio Cesar Chavez
14. Jorge Arce
15. Erik Morales
16. Antonio Margarito (I know, I know...I don't like him but I think he's fun to watch)
17. Joe Louis
18. Arturo Gatti
19. Sugar Ray Robinson
20. Sergio Martinez

OH Dear... One of the best lists here (imo) and then u go and throw in Margarito :nonono:

Barn
03-26-2011, 07:29 AM
OH Dear... One of the best lists here (imo) and then u go and throw in Margarito :nonono:
How can you have a "best" favourite fighters list lol.

McBean
03-26-2011, 08:31 AM
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Alexis Arguello
3. Marco Antonio Barrera
4. Roberto Duran
5. Arturo Gatti
6. Manny Pacquiao
7. Aaron Pryor
8. Mike Tyson
9. Thomas Hearns
10. Julio Cesar Chavez
11. Juan Manuel Marquez
12. Roy Jones Jr.
13. Naseem Hamed
14. Erik Morales
15. Nigel Benn
16. Evander Holyfield
17. Barry McGuigan
18. Muhammad Ali
19. Joe Frazier
20. Ken Norton

The list will probably change the more fights I see.

The Surgeon
03-26-2011, 11:56 AM
How can you have a "best" favourite fighters list lol.

I just ment i really like those guys too EXCEPT u know who......

BigStereotype
03-26-2011, 01:12 PM
OH Dear... One of the best lists here (imo) and then u go and throw in Margarito :nonono:

I know, I know! I felt really awkward putting him on there but I can't deny it. I love watching that dude fight, even if he is a piece of ****.

And come on, he's not worse than Monzon and I've seen him on like ten lists!

IronDanHamza
03-26-2011, 01:21 PM
I know, I know! I felt really awkward putting him on there but I can't deny it. I love watching that dude fight, even if he is a piece of ****.

And come on, he's not worse than Monzon and I've seen him on like ten lists!

The difference is what Monzon did was outside the ring and in his personal life. What Margarito did was intended to be inside the ring, and the fact he tried to cheat is a key reason.

Margarito is a boxing disgrace. Monzon is a disgrace to humanity.

But of course, this isn't a humanity forum.

BigStereotype
03-26-2011, 01:26 PM
The difference is what Monzon did was outside the ring and in his personal life. What Margarito did was intended to be inside the ring, and the fact he tried to cheat is a key reason.

Margarito is a boxing disgrace. Monzon is a disgrace to humanity.

But of course, this isn't a humanity forum.

That is true, I never thought of it like that. But I don't think he cheated against Cotto, so there is that. I think that he tried to live up to the hype against Mosley, knew that he was fighting a tougher opponent than everybody realized and tried to cheat to compensate. It's still reprehensible, but I don't believe that he ever successfully used the loaded gloves.

IronDanHamza
03-26-2011, 01:42 PM
That is true, I never thought of it like that. But I don't think he cheated against Cotto, so there is that. I think that he tried to live up to the hype against Mosley, knew that he was fighting a tougher opponent than everybody realized and tried to cheat to compensate. It's still reprehensible, but I don't believe that he ever successfully used the loaded gloves.

We will never know and that's just how it is. Everything to do with the Cotto fight is speculation but it obviously leaves a huge question mark above the fight and frankly most of his career. Regardless to who believes it or not.

And even if he didn't load his gloves in any fight of his career besides Mosley and regarldess to if he has never actually used them in the ring, the fact is he tried to cheat against Mosley that potentially could have killed him.

It's inexcusable.

Holtol
03-26-2011, 01:53 PM
We will never know and that's just how it is. Everything to do with the Cotto fight is speculation but it obviously leaves a huge question mark above the fight and frankly most of his career. Regardless to who believes it or not.

And even if he didn't load his gloves in any fight of his career besides Mosley and regarldess to if he has never actually used them in the ring, the fact is he tried to cheat against Mosley that potentially could have killed him.

It's inexcusable.

Mosley has been caught for cheating also. If you knew someone was cheating and you were about to get beaten to a pulp would you not try to even the playing field ? Hand wraps are always checked I doubt Margarito has ever got away with loaded gloves. I would not be so quick to point fingers.

IronDanHamza
03-26-2011, 01:57 PM
Mosley has been caught for cheating also. If you knew someone was cheating and you were about to get beaten to a pulp would you not try to even the playing field ? Hand wraps are always checked I doubt Margarito has ever got away with loaded gloves. I would not be so quick to point fingers.

He hasn't. But he has admitted his use of PED's but I don't like Shane Mosley either personally.

How am I pointing the finger? I never accused Margarito of using hand wraps in all of his fights....I merely said Margarito has a question mark over his career, that's all. Do I personally believe he has used him his entire career? No.

What I do know is he tried to use them for 1 of his fights. To me that's inexcusable. But that's just my opinion.

Holtol
03-26-2011, 02:05 PM
He hasn't. But he has admitted his use of PED's but I don't like Shane Mosley either personally.

How am I pointing the finger? I never accused Margarito of using hand wraps in all of his fights....I merely said Margarito has a question mark over his career, that's all. Do I personally believe he has used him his entire career? No.

What I do know is he tried to use them for 1 of his fights. To me that's inexcusable. But that's just my opinion.

I think its unfair to blame Margarito when it may have just been an attempt at self defence.

IronDanHamza
03-26-2011, 02:16 PM
I think its unfair to blame Margarito when it may have just been an attempt at self defence.

I disagree, but to each it's own.

Mosley last fight didn't suggest he was using PED's and even if he was it doesn't really mean it's ok.

The fact Margarito's actions are being justified because his opponent might be using PED's shows boxing needs more sufficent drug testing.

But that's another story for another day.

Holtol
03-26-2011, 02:34 PM
I disagree, but to each it's own.

Mosley last fight didn't suggest he was using PED's and even if he was it doesn't really mean it's ok.

The fact Margarito's actions are being justified because his opponent might be using PED's shows boxing needs more sufficent drug testing.

But that's another story for another day.

I don't think drug testing will ever work. It pretty easy to bribe someone doing the testing. You will always have liars and cheats when there is money involved. I don't like that athletes have to use peds either to compete.

Its allways bothered me the way Margarito gets treated. Because I think he payed the price for cheating while there are guys getting away with it. Those are the guys that really bother me lol. I Just don't know who they are.

Scott9945
03-26-2011, 11:14 PM
I think its unfair to blame Margarito when it may have just been an attempt at self defence.

There isn't one shred of evidence that Margarito ever fought with loaded gloves or knew what his trainer did to his wraps.

Ziggy Stardust
03-26-2011, 11:44 PM
There isn't one shred of evidence that Margarito ever fought with loaded gloves or knew what his trainer did to his wraps.

Other than he was caught with his gloves loaded: That's what the FBI refers to as a "clue".

Poet

Holtol
03-27-2011, 12:35 AM
There isn't one shred of evidence that Margarito ever fought with loaded gloves or knew what his trainer did to his wraps.

I think it is unlikely that he ever fought with loaded gloves. Usally someone that a boxer trusts checks the wraps of his opponent. I think it would be hard to get away with loaded gloves. I don't mind Margarito as a boxer because he paid the price for his cheating. I don't know if Margarito knew that his wraps were being altered or not. And I don't know if Margarito had a good reason to harden his wraps either.

Even with hardend wraps I think Mosley could have won that fight. Margarito needed some sort of advantage for whatever reason. Mosley hit him hard enough to kill a man or cause serious brain damage.

SCtrojansbaby
03-27-2011, 12:46 AM
A 6 year old girl could have beaten Margarito that night he wasn't even trying to win, his mind clearly was no where near the fight.

Scott9945
03-27-2011, 12:54 AM
Other than he was caught with his gloves loaded: That's what the FBI refers to as a "clue".

Poet

It was actually his wraps that were loaded. He didn't even put on the gloves yet. The substance was only in his wraps for a short while and hadn't even dried yet when it was discovered.

As for previous fights, it is reasonable to be suspicious. But it's kinda like if I live in a large apartment building and get caught buglarizing one of the units. It doesn't prove that I was responsible for every previous burglary. It just gives crybabies like Cintron something they can clutch on to and excuse their losses.

Wild Blue Yonda
03-27-2011, 01:27 AM
Here goes...most of these are from my lifetime, a natural bias, but as is...

1. Sonny Liston (the first fighter I ever followed when I started watching & learning)

2. George Foreman (The role as Sonny's successor endeared him to me)

3. Joe Louis (Grace, class & ability. You couldn't ask for more)

4. Gene Tunney (Precision, tactical thinking, grit & smarts. Simply, a ring genius)

5. Alexis Arguello (See Joe Louis description --- to a tee)

6. Pernell Whitaker (I could watch him & feel my jaw drop)

7. Oscar De La Hoya (Absolutely fearless match-maker in an age where everyone
else was pandering to the almighty, '0.' A throwback warrior)

8. Wilfred Benitez (A unique defensive wizard, it was one of truest joys I ever had
as a fight fan watching him beat Cervantes for history. Was so sure he would become so much more)

9. Sal Sanchez (An inspiration for his chin, precisio-punching, & above all, his super-human endurance. It was just amazing)

10. Marvin Hagler (I just loved everything about the man)

11. Carlos Ortiz (Simply, Puerto Rico's greatest ever, & a hugely under-rated fighter historically)

12. Joe Frazier (Undeniable for his courage & simplicity in approach. Hit 'em hard & hit 'em long, until they fall. Willing to die to land just one more shot. Bravery personified)

13. Ezzard Charles (Brutally under-appreciated in his day, a superb Champion with arguably the greatest resume in history. Fought HOFers like they were going out of style)

14. Rafael Marquez (I just love this kid. He's all fire, punch & his chin always makes for an exciting battle)

15. Manny Pacquiao (An excitement machine, & a true freak for the record books. Boxing will be poorer when we lose him --- you are all watching history unfold)

16. Ray Mancini (A fearless kid with real small-town charisma & simple charm. Gave it all every time out --- no excuses, no exceptions)

17. Arturo Gatti (So much heart & desire to please the fans. The way his face distorted when Ward landed that bodyshot in their first fight --- he got up, & there can be no finer example of what this man was about)

18. Jimmy Young (Never got his due in the day, a smart, humble, clever fighter with an excellent Boxing brain. Arguably beat Foreman, Norton & Ali. They definitely robbed him of Championship status, he beat Ali)

19. Willie Pep (Astonishing boxer, probably better defensively than even Tunney, Benitez & Whitaker, mentioned above. Beating Saddler after a plane crash that bad is something, truly, no other FW in history could do)

20. Jack Dempsey (What an image, what a star, & what a fire! A raging inferno --- seeing him in the flesh must've been one of the great sights in Boxing history)

Ziggy Stardust
03-27-2011, 01:39 AM
It was actually his wraps that were loaded. He didn't even put on the gloves yet. The substance was only in his wraps for a short while and hadn't even dried yet when it was discovered.

As for previous fights, it is reasonable to be suspicious. But it's kinda like if I live in a large apartment building and get caught buglarizing one of the units. It doesn't prove that I was responsible for every previous burglary. It just gives crybabies like Cintron something they can clutch on to and excuse their losses.

I'm pretty sure if there were a string of burgleries in my complex and you got caught burglerizing an apartment you'd go to the top of my list as the perp for the others. In Margacheatos case, it's no different than a guy who hits a lot of homeruns getting caught corking his bat: All his other homers are immediately and permanently suspect. That cloud is NEVER going away. Get caught cheating once and you're guilty until proven innocent for eternity.

Poet

The Surgeon
03-27-2011, 04:19 PM
We will never know and that's just how it is. Everything to do with the Cotto fight is speculation but it obviously leaves a huge question mark above the fight and frankly most of his career. Regardless to who believes it or not.

And even if he didn't load his gloves in any fight of his career besides Mosley and regarldess to if he has never actually used them in the ring, the fact is he tried to cheat against Mosley that potentially could have killed him.

It's inexcusable.

Yeah im with u on this one Dan. No excuse for it either way but im of the opinion he had used them before and of the opinion he knew damn well his gloves were loaded. It disgusts me that he is still making such good money from this great sport he so badly disrespected

The Surgeon
03-27-2011, 04:26 PM
It was actually his wraps that were loaded. He didn't even put on the gloves yet. The substance was only in his wraps for a short while and hadn't even dried yet when it was discovered.

As for previous fights, it is reasonable to be suspicious. But it's kinda like if I live in a large apartment building and get caught buglarizing one of the units. It doesn't prove that I was responsible for every previous burglary. It just gives crybabies like Cintron something they can clutch on to and excuse their losses.

Yeah but Scott he went out or at very least if ur the most trusting man alive his Camp went out with the intension of punching shane mosley with an illegal substance on his hands potentially giving him severe brain damage or even killing him. They hadnt dried yet but they would before long and then Shane's health would be paying the price for Margs cheating.

Mabey he used them before mabey not but i for one am as suspicious as hell and even if he didnt use them before **** em suspicion and doubt over his previous work is part of the price he has to pay for what he attempted to do

Holtol
03-27-2011, 04:57 PM
Yeah im with u on this one Dan. No excuse for it either way but im of the opinion he had used them before and of the opinion he knew damn well his gloves were loaded. It disgusts me that he is still making such good money from this great sport he so badly disrespected

What bothers me when people blame Margarito is that they don't know the whole story. Its a lot eaiser to get away with peds then loaded gloves. People who test for peds can be bribed, people who check wraps are people the boxer trusts so they would not be easy to bribe. I would not be so quick to think all the iformation you hear to be the truth, could be corruption and lies. All I know is Margarito was caught, could have been a set up for not being a good lap dog or something else, who knows?

SBleeder
03-27-2011, 09:37 PM
This list is based solely by my preferences of in-ring performance. What I think of a guy on a personal level/his stardom/etc. is not included. These are my 20 favorite fighters of all time to watch, the guys I consider to be the most exciting:

1. Ricardo Lopez
2. Pernell Whitaker
3. Wilfred Benitez
4. Willie Pep
5. Thomas Hearns
6. Muhammad Ali
7. Gilberto Roman
8. Sonny Liston
9. Michael Nunn
10. Niccolino Locche
11. Chris John
12. Gene Tunney
13. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
14. Dick Tiger
15. Harold Brazier
16. James Toney (as a middleweight)
17. Sugar Ray Robinson
18. Larry Holmes
19. Hank Lundy
20. Sugar Ray Leonard

Scott9945
03-28-2011, 01:12 AM
Yeah but Scott he went out or at very least if ur the most trusting man alive his Camp went out with the intension of punching shane mosley with an illegal substance on his hands potentially giving him severe brain damage or even killing him. They hadnt dried yet but they would before long and then Shane's health would be paying the price for Margs cheating.

Mabey he used them before mabey not but i for one am as suspicious as hell and even if he didnt use them before **** em suspicion and doubt over his previous work is part of the price he has to pay for what he attempted to do

Your points are all valid Surgeon. Let me tell you my take on it. Based on what I've read/heard, Margarito had a terrible camp for the Mosley fight. He had to drop a lot of weight and was listless in training. His trainer panicked and tried to get an edge. IMO Margarito would have still gotten his azz kicked even with loaded gloves. He couldn't hit Shane with anything solid. As we've discovered after his follow up fights, Mosley wasn't really that good, but Margarito made him look like a superstar.

As for his previous fights, people forget that the California commission signed off on those wraps too. They were obviously fooled. But the Cotto fight was in Nevada and those wraps were inspected by a different commission and Cotto's own people. It just bothers me that so many just assume that Margarito couldn't have beaten him without cheating. I believe that he'll be vindicated when they have a rematch this summer.

Margarito was liable and paid the penalty he deserved. But I personally think the outrage and assumptions about him have been way over the top.

The Surgeon
03-28-2011, 06:00 AM
Your points are all valid Surgeon. Let me tell you my take on it. Based on what I've read/heard, Margarito had a terrible camp for the Mosley fight. He had to drop a lot of weight and was listless in training. His trainer panicked and tried to get an edge. IMO Margarito would have still gotten his azz kicked even with loaded gloves. He couldn't hit Shane with anything solid. As we've discovered after his follow up fights, Mosley wasn't really that good, but Margarito made him look like a superstar.

As for his previous fights, people forget that the California commission signed off on those wraps too. They were obviously fooled. But the Cotto fight was in Nevada and those wraps were inspected by a different commission and Cotto's own people. It just bothers me that so many just assume that Margarito couldn't have beaten him without cheating. I believe that he'll be vindicated when they have a rematch this summer.

Margarito was liable and paid the penalty he deserved. But I personally think the outrage and assumptions about him have been way over the top.
Oh yeah, Shane was knocking Marg out regardless, i said it at the time the loaded wraps wouldnt have actually made much difference coz he couldnt land anyway! But it still aint on. Margs camp does sound hellish but i honestly think it was a case of the styles working perfect for Shane and Mosley with all the ***** going on in his life just turning back the clock and putting on that one last great performance. They do say a great fighter always does have one great performance in him. Mabey im just being biased but its the way i feel.

Commision inspections mean little, those guys could be easily bribed. Cotto will always have his hands full with a tall strong granite chined pressure fighter like Tony, wraps or not. I do feel he wore them against Miguel tho first time and its possibly cost Cotto a spot among boxings greats, he hasnt been the same since

I just cant stomach Tony, laughing and making jokes about the whole thing, earning a fortune and having that ridiculas mullet and devil beard!