View Full Version : [PLEASE HELP] Sometimes I Wonder Why I Even Watch Anymore


ƒallenloki
03-04-2011, 03:05 AM
These decisions are out of control.

Did you guys see Diego Sanchez get wrecked tonight?

It's possible that he has up to 3 breaks in his face.

Holy ****. That fight was 30-27 for Kampmann.

It's unbelievable that every other fight which goes to decision is basically a coin flip. UNREAL.

It seems like results are becoming irrelevant.

blaze778
03-04-2011, 03:26 AM
Definitely a bad decision.

I had Kampmann winning the 1st and 3rd rounds. Sanchez would have stole the 2nd round, but Kampmann controlled most of the round so I scored that one even.

The judges gave Sanchez the fight based on "ineffective" aggression and they were blinded by the fact that Kampmann outclassed Diego in most of the exchanges.

I respect Sanchez's heart and it's not his fault the judges suck. He took a beating, but kept moving forward, literally.

ƒallenloki
03-04-2011, 03:27 AM
In round 2 Kampmann outlands Sanchez 33 to 18 in total strikes, 19 to 15 in power strikes.

In 3: Kamp 34-19 edge in total strikes landed but Sanchez had 17-14 edge in power strikes landed

Kampmann doubled Sanchez in total strikes landed 97 to 45 including 50 to 39 in total power strikes


twitter.com/compustrike

ƒallenloki
03-04-2011, 03:28 AM
http://c442104.r4.cf2.rackcdn.com/2011/03/UFCv3-Sanchez-v-Kampmann-5.jpg

ƒallenloki
03-04-2011, 03:28 AM
http://admin.mmaweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/UFCv3-Sanchez-v-Kampmann-4.jpg

ƒallenloki
03-04-2011, 03:30 AM
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_qZ5aG-889M/TXBjKXDr8JI/AAAAAAAABl8/sUNkbKE_vN4/s1600/2.gif

ƒallenloki
03-04-2011, 03:31 AM
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OeWSY39lVL0/TXBoEHqiVxI/AAAAAAAABmc/-0xDPIFEngg/s1600/10.gif

ƒallenloki
03-04-2011, 03:32 AM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-szvpIHG8jYc/TXBkAZ1sOfI/AAAAAAAABmA/71NWr3wmjN4/s1600/3.gif

F l i c k e r
03-04-2011, 05:37 AM
no ****in way. I haven't watched the fight but looking at the damage, how could he have possibly won?

jakkups
03-04-2011, 08:23 AM
no ****in way. I haven't watched the fight but looking at the damage, how could he have possibly won?

Via 3 judges who either don't know how to score a fight.

He can only score one takedown out of 13 or 14 by my count, when he does get him down Kampmann is up within a couple of seconds, gets outlanded on the feet leving his face looking like freshly cut beef and still gets the decision. Unbelievable.

BKM-2010
03-04-2011, 08:51 AM
Holy hell, that's Diego Sanchez? He's busted up so severely I can't recognize him at all. I wasn't able to watch the fights last night but I hear it had a really bad decision.

I sure hope this doesn't put Kampmann in trouble being that he's in a losing streak now.

jakkups
03-04-2011, 09:40 AM
Holy hell, that's Diego Sanchez? He's busted up so severely I can't recognize him at all. I wasn't able to watch the fights last night but I hear it had a really bad decision.

I sure hope this doesn't put Kampmann in trouble being that he's in a losing streak now.

His last 2 losses were suspect. Shields just edged him but he could've easily got the nod himself, and now he gets robbed against Diego when he clearly won. I doubt hes gonna get cut but you never know with the UFC. His saving grace is that he usually puts on good fights which can keep you around, just look at Chris Lytle.

Blair_Wells#32
03-04-2011, 09:45 AM
if this were boxing and only scored striking then yeah maybe kampman would have won....but guess what its MMA.
judges scores are based on effective striking, Grappling, Aggresion and Octagon Control.
striking-kampman in the first round, after that Diego kept pushing forward and swinging.
Grappling-Diego initiated the grappling by going for continuous takedowns and putting kampman against the cage.
Aggression-Diego kept the Pace moving forward.
Octagon control-again diego.
this fight looked alot like GSP Vs Penn1 when Penn won the first round but GSP took control later.
so quit your *****ing.

Move BRICKS
03-04-2011, 11:13 AM
if this were boxing and only scored striking then yeah maybe kampman would have won....but guess what its MMA.
judges scores are based on effective striking, Grappling, Aggresion and Octagon Control.
striking-kampman in the first round, after that Diego kept pushing forward and swinging.
Grappling-Diego initiated the grappling by going for continuous takedowns and putting kampman against the cage.
Aggression-Diego kept the Pace moving forward.
Octagon control-again diego.
this fight looked alot like GSP Vs Penn1 when Penn won the first round but GSP took control later.
so quit your *****ing.

I disagree completely. Diego moving forward and getting tagged cleanly shouldn't count for anything. He was just walking into punches the whole night. He was completely outscored on the feet.

And I'll take a page out of Nick Diaz's book. "Takedowns should count, but they shouldn't be counted." Diego was hardly successful with his takedown attempts outside of pinning Martin against the cage a few times.

If you're a fan of UFC judging, I guess this decision wouldn't bother you. But to everyone else, we saw a fighter show up and stick to his gameplan. Stay on the outside and outbox Sanchez while he moved in and tried to exchange, stuff the takedowns and batter him. I feel bad for Kampmann.

Run
03-04-2011, 11:24 AM
Bloodsport. We al know it never was meant to be pretty like Basketball.

MARKBNLV
03-04-2011, 11:33 AM
I had rd 1 for Kampman,2nd was pretty damn even Kampman landed better but Diego pushed the pace,3rd Kampman again landed nice counters but always seemed to be retreating i had it 29-28 for Kampman but there was no robbery i have no problem with that 2nd rd being scored for Diego.Martin Kampman beat himself he should have stopped Diego but let his foot off the gas.

ƒallenloki
03-04-2011, 01:38 PM
I had rd 1 for Kampman,2nd was pretty damn even Kampman landed better but Diego pushed the pace,3rd Kampman again landed nice counters but always seemed to be retreating i had it 29-28 for Kampman but there was no robbery i have no problem with that 2nd rd being scored for Diego.Martin Kampman beat himself he should have stopped Diego but let his foot off the gas.

Walking face first into punches and getting your takedown attempts stuffed is not effective. Therefore these points are null.

jakkups
03-04-2011, 03:06 PM
if this were boxing and only scored striking then yeah maybe kampman would have won....but guess what its MMA.
judges scores are based on effective striking, Grappling, Aggresion and Octagon Control.
striking-kampman in the first round, after that Diego kept pushing forward and swinging.
Grappling-Diego initiated the grappling by going for continuous takedowns and putting kampman against the cage.
Aggression-Diego kept the Pace moving forward.
Octagon control-again diego.
this fight looked alot like GSP Vs Penn1 when Penn won the first round but GSP took control later.
so quit your *****ing.

The way I see it:
Striking - Kampmann
Grappling - Even
Aggression - Neither man.
Octagon control - Kampmann.


Pushing the pace/being aggressive and being effective are 2 completely different things. Coming forward without actually doing anything significant to swing the direction of the fight in your favour is not effective aggression. If Diego was able to make his aggression count for something then I could see him taking the last two rounds but he didn't.

As for him the grappling aspect. Like Bricks said, takedowns should count but not be counted. He got one takedown the entire fight and Kampmann got up immediately. The rest of his takedowns were stuffed and as for him being up against the cage, nothing happened there either. He was outworked on the cage, he was able to shake off Diego everytime coming away unscathed and resuming his boxing clinic that he put on. Having someone on the cage after you failed a takedown doesnt constitute control, because Kampmann was never there for long periods nor did he suffer any damage when he was there. The fairest thing to say with regards to the grappling was that it was dead even, Diego attempting, but with no success since Kampmann defended.

If anything Kampmann should be given the control portion of scoring since he was able to put Diego on the end of an effective jab and land power shots continously for the duration of the fight. Octagon control doesn't mean how long you can keep a guy up against the fence in order to stop him from punching your face to pieces. Fact is he couldn't make it count, he could mount any offense or do anything to discourage Kampmann's gameplan.

This fight looked nothing like GSP/Penn 1. Penn smashed GSP in the first round, but was taken down continously, was kept there and grinded on for the next 2 rounds without being able to mount any offense. All the damage he did to GSP was in the first round. Sanchez couldn't even mount a a ground offense because the one time he did get Kampmann there he was up just as quickly, and the damage he took was over the course of 3 rounds not one. Look at Diegos face as the fight goes on, it get's progressively worse and worse. Kampmann executed a gameplan very well, but got robbed on the cards.

CiganoBoxer
03-04-2011, 03:32 PM
These decisions are out of control.

Did you guys see Diego Sanchez get wrecked tonight?

It's possible that he has up to 3 breaks in his face.

Holy ****. That fight was 30-27 for Kampmann.

It's unbelievable that every other fight which goes to decision is basically a coin flip. UNREAL.

It seems like results are becoming irrelevant.Gotta agree with you mate ...Just how can they give that fight to Diego Sanchez with his face in that state...just about the worst facial beating/damage i have ever seen served on a man in combat sports ..yet they gave him the win ! BS

Mersey
03-04-2011, 05:50 PM
He looked like Cotto did vs Margarito :lol1:

Sweet Jesus
03-04-2011, 07:22 PM
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OeWSY39lVL0/TXBoEHqiVxI/AAAAAAAABmc/-0xDPIFEngg/s1600/10.gif

Good god. Can anyone say BLOODSPORT?

Reggie Miller
03-05-2011, 12:43 AM
I actually thought Sanchez landed overall the harder shots, I thought that was more effective aggression/striking than Kampmann was bringing.

Kampmann was backing up like a ho even though he said he could KO Sanchez, Diego made it a fight and had to chase Kampmann around the cage from midway point of RD2 til the end. After Kampmann tasted some shots from Diego, he didn't want it anymore and was just backing up and counterpunching with average "power shots".

Power shots in the UFC are like power shots in boxing, anything not a jab is considered a power shot and by my estimation, Diego was banging harder and more aggressively than Kampmann. Both were bloodied up by the end of the fight.

A bloodied up beaten face doesn't mean you lost, with that logic Arturo Gatti loses every fight.

Jack3d
03-05-2011, 02:43 AM
Meh. I don't really care all that much. Not a fan of either fighter and ****ty judging is something that I've sadly become used to, especially if the fight is even remotely close.

ƒallenloki
03-05-2011, 03:47 AM
I actually thought Sanchez landed overall the harder shots, I thought that was more effective aggression/striking than Kampmann was bringing.

Kampmann was backing up like a ho even though he said he could KO Sanchez, Diego made it a fight and had to chase Kampmann around the cage from midway point of RD2 til the end. After Kampmann tasted some shots from Diego, he didn't want it anymore and was just backing up and counterpunching with average "power shots".

Power shots in the UFC are like power shots in boxing, anything not a jab is considered a power shot and by my estimation, Diego was banging harder and more aggressively than Kampmann. Both were bloodied up by the end of the fight.

A bloodied up beaten face doesn't mean you lost, with that logic Arturo Gatti loses every fight.

You are stupid. Leave.
:wave:

Reggie Miller
03-05-2011, 11:37 AM
You are stupid. Leave.
:wave:

Says the guy who didn't reply to a single point made. :lol1:

Boxing/MMA is a subjective sport, obviously the judges saw something in that fight to score it like that.

For you to give Kampmann ALL 3 ROUNDS is stupid.

I was just giving my opinion, but you obviously got your feelings hurt.

Clown.

ƒallenloki
03-05-2011, 04:51 PM
Says the guy who didn't reply to a single point made. :lol1:

Boxing/MMA is a subjective sport, obviously the judges saw something in that fight to score it like that.

For you to give Kampmann ALL 3 ROUNDS is stupid.

I was just giving my opinion, but you obviously got your feelings hurt.

Clown.

Umm. Your points are based off some archaic notion that "pushing the pace" can win you around. Yeah, Diego was coming forward, but he was straight up getting murked. His grappling was useless. He was outlanded over 2:1 and completed 1 of 15 takedowns

Reggie Miller
03-05-2011, 05:47 PM
Umm. Your points are based off some archaic notion that "pushing the pace" can win you around. Yeah, Diego was coming forward, but he was straight up getting murked. His grappling was useless. He was outlanded over 2:1 and completed 1 of 15 takedowns

Thats a bit better, at least you're debating instead of childish insults.

UFC rules clearly state:

" The heavier striker who lands with efficiency, deserves more credit from the Judges than total number landed. If the striking power between the fighters was equal, then the total number landed would be used as the criteria."

Diego was clearly landing harder punches towards the end of RD2 and all of RD3 to warrant the judges to score in his favor, Kampmann was backing up from then so was limited in how many hard andmeaningful punches he could actually throw. "Throwing a strike moving backwards is not as effective as a strike thrown moving forward"

Judging criteria also focuses on Octagon Control and Effective Aggressiveness, backing up like Kampmann was is not octagon control, its actually effective aggressiveness, Diego was making Kampmann back up after he tasted Diegos power and had his legs wobbled.

Lastly, fighters blame the judges too much sometimes.. Kampmann didn't do enough to win, he didn't go for the kill because Diego was in there returning fire from RD2 onwards and Kampmann didn't want to trade, only reluctantly did he do it but Diego was the heavier puncher in that fight.

All quotes in italic are straight the UFC rules and haven't been molested in anyway.

The fight was alot closer than people think or say it was, some people just don't know the UFC rules. Judges read the criteria and score on that, maybe the criteria and wording needs to be changed. Good day. :cool2:

Jack3d
03-05-2011, 06:41 PM
Umm. Your points are based off some archaic notion that "pushing the pace" can win you around. Yeah, Diego was coming forward, but he was straight up getting murked. His grappling was useless. He was outlanded over 2:1 and completed 1 of 15 takedowns

It's not some "archaic notion"

aggression and octagon control are two things that NA scoring is based on.

Case in point the first fight between Edgar and Penn. Edgar probably hit more air than he did BJ Penn, but being more active won him the fight. Not saying that it's right to do that, but that what the criteria is.

ƒallenloki
03-05-2011, 07:38 PM
efˇfiˇcient adj \i-***712;fi-sh***601;nt\
Definition of EFFICIENT

1
: being or involving the immediate agent in producing an effect <the efficient action of heat in changing water to steam>
2
: productive of desired effects; especially : productive without waste <an efficient worker>
***8212; efˇfiˇcientˇly adverb
See efficient defined for English-language learners ť
Examples of EFFICIENT

<that manual lawn mower is not a very efficient tool for doing a huge yard>
Like a page-turner of a novel, [Nomar] Garciaparra keeps you eager to see what comes next, especially this season, when he will have the most efficient RBI machine in baseball, free-agent signee Manny Ramirez, riding shotgun with him. ***8212;Tom Verducci, Sports Illustrated, 5

Origin of EFFICIENT

Middle English, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin efficient-, efficiens, from present participle of efficere
First Known Use: 14th century
Related to EFFICIENT

Synonyms: effectual, efficacious, effective, fruitful, operative, potent, productive
Antonyms: fruitless, ineffective, ineffectual, inefficient, inoperative, unfruitful, unproductive, useless


Dude, he wasn't controlling the Octagon.

When Kampann backs up to create room and angles to throw combos then lands his shots, he's controlling the Octagon.

When Diego got tired of getting punched in the face he tried to take Kampmann down 15 times and got him down once. The one time he got Kampmann down, he got shoved off and nullified... Per judging criteria, he lost. Badly.

ƒallenloki
03-05-2011, 07:42 PM
It's not some "archaic notion"

aggression and octagon control are two things that NA scoring is based on.

Case in point the first fight between Edgar and Penn. Edgar probably hit more air than he did BJ Penn, but being more active won him the fight. Not saying that it's right to do that, but that what the criteria is.

I believe it's called "effective aggressiveness"

Not get punched in the face Margarito style.