But....it seems like the general public is finally wising up as well -

>>>>>>>>>

Lightweight numbers for heavies!
HBO Sports announced today that the Dec. 11 pay-per-view heavyweight title fight between Vitali Klitschko and Danny Williams at the Mandalay Bay Events Center in Las Vegas generated approximately 120,000 buys. This comes on the heels of the Nov. 13 heavyweight pay-per-view show from New York's Madison Square Garden, which also produced 120,000 buys. "We're disappointed," said Ross Greenburg, President, HBO Sports. "We realize that the heavyweight division needs to be re-energized in 2005. We're committed to doing our best to present the most compelling and attractive heavyweight matchups in 2005, and we hope that all the promoters involved in the division recognize the need to develop a meaningful heavyweight plan. Boxing needs a unified heavyweight champion to emerge and be recognized by the public as 'The Man.'"
Wednesday, December 15 2004


<<<<<<<<

Tyson vs. Williams did 140,000. lol

You know why? Because of too much HYPING and PROMOTIONAL BUILD ups that turned out to be fluke . . . example? What happened to Menzi? . . . what happened to the Klitsckos? (excluding Vitali's latest victory). . . and aside from that people are getting tired of ****i'n Don King.

If I knew who "Menzi" was....I might be able to tell you what happened to him.

They are trying to push Klit as the next big thing when he's boring as hell.He lost his best fight to date.

so one champion(VK) got as many as buys as 2 champions(byrd/ruiz) and a contender(rahman)??

so one champion(VK) got as many as buys as 2 champions(byrd/ruiz) and a contender(rahman)??

it would have been sub-100,000 buys without Cotto on the card...

Hopkins ain't no draw either and he's considered one of the top p4p.

That is a relative success for Vitaliy, with all the European sales too. The European market was huge for this fight.


We therefore have that the US PPV value of a single

Klichko-Williams bout

was equal to the combined US PPV value of

1. Byrd/Mccline
2. Ruiz/Golota
3. Rahamn/Myhan

That's very impressive.

That is a relative success for Vitaliy, with all the European sales too. The European market was huge for this fight.


We therefore have that the US PPV value of a single

Klichko-Williams bout

was equal to the combined US PPV value of

1. Byrd/Mccline
2. Ruiz/Golota
3. Rahamn/Myhan

That's very impressive.

Are you saying that there are fans of certain boxers who only follow that specific boxer?

I can't see a rabid Chris Byrd fan only buying a card if Ruiz is on it and vice versa.

If Vitali had another heavyweight on his card, would you say he was sharing the "Value" with them? Come on...

it would have been sub-100,000 buys without Cotto on the card...
Exactly. HBO PPV numbers were elevated because of the Puerto Rican fanbase that Cotto carries with him.

Those numbers are World Wide, not just in the U.S. Europe's numbers SHOULD be included in that because they have the rights to the fight all over the world.

Here is how the heavyweights should do it:

Vitali fights Rock, Ruiz fights Toney, and Byrd fights Owen Beck. The winners of the last two fights would fight each other and Vitali/Rock winner would fight the winner of that one. This would give us a unified/undisputed champ (I'm taking Rahman).

Are you saying that there are fans of certain boxers who only follow that specific boxer?

I can't see a rabid Chris Byrd fan only buying a card if Ruiz is on it and vice versa.

If Vitali had another heavyweight on his card, would you say he was sharing the "Value" with them? Come on...


I am saying that the US PPV market value = revenue of

VK-Williams fight

equals US PPV market value=revenue of 3-fight combo of

Byrd/Mccline
Rahman/Mygan
Hugger/Mccline


That's the market economy, market value of a product = total revenue.

I am sure the market value is a lot larger for VK-Williams due to additional huge Euro sales.

Exactly. HBO PPV numbers were elevated because of the Puerto Rican fanbase that Cotto carries with him.


Can Puerto Ricans afford to pay for 50$ PPV (no offense there)?

I am saying that the US PPV market value = revenue of

VK-Williams fight

equals US PPV market value=revenue of 3-fight combo of

Byrd/Mccline
Rahman/Mygan
Hugger/Mccline


That's the market economy, market value of a product = total revenue.

I am sure the market value is a lot larger for VK-Williams due to additional huge Euro sales.

Oversimplifying misleads - if Vitali was on the last heavyweight card, the total buys wouldn't have been much different, because heavyweight boxing fans bought both. That's partly why they both sold the same amount. I can't see people saying "I'll pay for Ruiz and Byrd but not Vitali"

It's "time to buy the next week's card, because this one's a PPV"
A lot of people are like me and buy all the big cards just because it's the only one that weekend. I'll even buy a Jirov card if it's the only chance to see boxing that weekend...lol

Oversimplifying misleads - if Vitali was on the last heavyweight card, the total buys wouldn't have been much different, because heavyweight boxing fans bought both. That's partly why they both sold the same amount. I can't see people saying "I'll pay for Ruiz and Byrd but not Vitali"

It's "time to buy the next week's card, because this one's a PPV"
A lot of people are like me and buy all the big cards just because it's the only one that weekend. I'll even buy a Jirov card if it's the only chance to see boxing that weekend...lol

There is nothing oversiymplifying. What I said is a plain restatement of a simple fact that the PPV revenues of two cards are equal. That's how market valued them.


Look I bought both cards, but bought the Nov one only because it was a tripple header. I would not have bough it otherwise.

I think the sales for Byrd/McCline standalone card would be miserable.

The sales for Ruiz/Golota would be small (and none if it were not for Golota).

The sales for Rahman/WHo? would be who know what.

The only reasons it got sold is because it is a 3-fight combo.

Rahman and Holyfield were thrown onto the card, just like Carlos Hernandez and Navarro were thrown onto the Vit card.

Cotto was thrown onto the Klitschko card, probably to keep it from being too much of a stinker, but only after Vit's match was announced.

Rahman and Holyfield were thrown onto the card, just like Carlos Hernandez and Navarro were thrown onto the Vit card.

Cotto was thrown onto the Klitschko card, probably to keep it from being too much of a stinker, but only after Vit's match was announced.



You just plainly hate VK.

Rahman and Holyfield were thrown onto the card, just like Carlos Hernandez and Navarro were thrown onto the Vit card.

Cotto was thrown onto the Klitschko card, probably to keep it from being too much of a stinker, but only after Vit's match was announced.
'

I even forgot that Evander was on that card too ... What an embarassment...

You just plainly hate VK.

I don't hate any fighter (well, maybe De La Hoya), but someone needs to offset the blind love on the boards for a guy that hasn't earned it yet

if the HW division is stinkin so much, why prolong the unification any longer? why have these other fighters involved in the mix? if Rahman beats one of the champs, fans may have the feeling that he doesn't deserve the title of THE HW champ, since he would have just gotten the belt.

All the HWs have defended their titles at least once right?
so they have proven they (at least somewhat I suppose considering the recent Nov. card) that they deserve those titles. Why go down from there? The HW division needs to go UP and that will only happen with a unification.

THEN let's have Rahman, Toney, and whoever thinks the unified champ isn't deserving get their chance in there.

I personally think that having one champ (and the rest of the division fighting their hearts out to get a shot at all those titles) is a bigger draw to the division than what is currently going on due to Don King keeping his fighters this way for max $ or promoters not agreeing to fights..

:)

if the HW division is stinkin so much, why prolong the unification any longer? why have these other fighters involved in the mix? if Rahman beats one of the champs, fans may have the feeling that he doesn't deserve the title of THE HW champ, since he would have just gotten the belt.

All the HWs have defended their titles at least once right?
so they have proven they (at least somewhat I suppose considering the recent Nov. card) that they deserve those titles. Why go down from there? The HW division needs to go UP and that will only happen with a unification.

THEN let's have Rahman, Toney, and whoever thinks the unified champ isn't deserving get their chance in there.

I personally think that having one champ (and the rest of the division fighting their hearts out to get a shot at all those titles) is a bigger draw to the division than what is currently going on due to Don King keeping his fighters this way for max $ or promoters not agreeing to fights..

:)

Nautilus and I are able to discuss things without resorting to sending bad karma back and forth.

No division is unified, really. The only one that kind of is is the middleweights. Why does everyone act like the heavyweights should be unified any more than, say, junior welterweights?

First of all Vitali/Williams should not have been on payperview because Williams was not a big name or a threat to Vitali!

Secondly, Vitali's fights on HBO were Some of the highest rated ever on the channel! Unless there is a superfight to be made, and that goes for any weight division, Boxing should never be on payperview! We are already paying for it on cable or satelite! ;)

Can Puerto Ricans afford to pay for 50$ PPV (no offense there)?
Yes, we can.

Yes, we can.

Yeah, how does one say something so elitist and prejudiced and then just follow it up with (no offense).

First of all Vitali/Williams should not have been on payperview because Williams was not a big name or a threat to Vitali!

Secondly, Vitali's fights on HBO were Some of the highest rated ever on the channel! Unless there is a superfight to be made, and that goes for any weight division, Boxing should never be on payperview! We are already paying for it on cable or satelite! ;)

Agreed - with one further comment.

Vitali's fights are some of the highest rated BECAUSE fights like DLH-Hopkins, Trinidad-Mayorga, etc. ARE ON pay-per-view and so they don't eat up those highest rated spots.

I remember reading that Lewis-Klitschko was a highly-rated event, but back then, Roy and Oscar were ALWAYS on PPV so there was no legitimate measuring stick for what was a defense of a long-standing, universally recognized heavyweight champion on "free" (technically pay) TV.

Agreed - with one further comment.

Vitali's fights are some of the highest rated BECAUSE fights like DLH-Hopkins, Trinidad-Mayorga, etc. ARE ON pay-per-view and so they don't eat up those highest rated spots.

I remember reading that Lewis-Klitschko was a highly-rated event, but back then, Roy and Oscar were ALWAYS on PPV so there was no legitimate measuring stick for what was a defense of a long-standing, universally recognized heavyweight champion on "free" (technically pay) TV.

Exactly right! U.S. Fights cannot compete with Mexican fights right now in the ratings game because boxing just isn't as popular here now! I just meant Heavyweight fights though.

Nautilus and I are able to discuss things without resorting to sending bad karma back and forth.

No division is unified, really. The only one that kind of is is the middleweights. Why does everyone act like the heavyweights should be unified any more than, say, junior welterweights?


I just figured this karma thing out. This forum has tons of features, still finding out about them.

I don't recall anyone complaining about the poor state of the junior welterweight division etc...

Unifying the belts doesn't make the heavyweight division any better.

It just makes for less "cream" at the top of a "****ty crop"

the heavyweights are shocking.....except for perhaps byrd who actually boxes.....could you imagine a welterweight boxing the way vitali does??...he wouldn't reach the 5 pro win mark!

what better idea do you have then of making the HW division better?
:confused:

what better idea do you have then of making the HW division better?
:confused:


Getting rid of it.

LOL

The thing that makes people like HW boxing is the KOs.
If we get someone starting to knock blocks off and keep winning, it might help. IMO

I like the action of the lighter weights, but it seems to me that there are far less KOs in those divisions...

I don't hate any fighter (well, maybe De La Hoya), but someone needs to offset the blind love on the boards for a guy that hasn't earned it yet



Part of this is a good point.

I think VK did earn good respect though.

Getting rid of it.


http://img86.exs.cx/img86/7945/0e-indeed_data.jpg

nah, we just keep watching til it gets better. but that doesn't mean we think it's top-notch.

Being heavyweight champ now is (sorry to Doug Stanhope for stealing his line) equivalent to being the "prettiest Denny's waitress"

Getting rid of it.


You could start in that direction by NOT discussing any of the HW matters. :D

LOL

The thing that makes people like HW boxing is the KOs.
If we get someone starting to knock blocks off and keep winning, it might help. IMO

I like the action of the lighter weights, but it seems to me that there are far less KOs in those divisions...

There are plenty of KO's below heavyweight....& the best punchers in the sport (Corrales, Trinidad, Pacquiao, R.Marquez, Tszyu, etc.) come from below heavy.

You could start in that direction by NOT discussing any of the HW matters. :D


Unlike you, fanboy, I'm concerned about the sport....not just a couple of fighters with similar accents to myself.

Indeed there are good KO artists in those divisions, but they are sprinkled throughout. In HW, the odds are greater to see someone get starched. but at the same time the odds are good to see them get winded and hug each other to death :(

Unlike you, fanboy, I'm concerned about the sport....not just a couple of fighters with similar accents to myself.


Stiff,

List your favorite fighters please. I will list mine

the heavyweights are shocking.....except for perhaps byrd who actually boxes.....could you imagine a welterweight boxing the way vitali does??...he wouldn't reach the 5 pro win mark!

What about Prince Naseem? He did pretty good with no technique! so did Roy Jones!

Stiff,

List your favorite fighters please. I will list mine

Trinidad, Corrales, Hopkins, Marquez (both bros.), Pacquiao, Castillo.

Unlike you, fanboy, I'm concerned about the sport....not just a couple of fighters with similar accents to myself.

wow. 10-8 round for jabs...

I'm also a big fan of James Toney...but I really don't know what to make of him as a heavyweight.

think of him at the end of his career...but good enough to beat at least Brewster

You know why? Because of too much HYPING and PROMOTIONAL BUILD ups that turned out to be fluke . . . example? What happened to Menzi? . . . what happened to the Klitsckos? (excluding Vitali's latest victory). . . and aside from that people are getting tired of ****i'n Don King.


You mean Joe Mesi maybe..yes he was hyped a lot but he's got health problems anyway

Trinidad, Corrales, Hopkins, Marquez (both bros.), Pacquiao, Castillo.



Mine (in no particular order): Jirov, Tzyu, K2, JMM (I rooted for him big time after he won his fight with Pacman), Chris Byrd, Jermain Taylor (future P4P star), James Toney (even though Toney is a dumb ass), Nard, Pacman

wow. 10-8 round for jabs...



you should fire your ass from being a judge, your biased :D

you should fire your ass from being a judge, your biased :D

I call 'em like I see 'em.

You know I got mad love for you, Nautilus, I could just picture you, though, trying to add some non-European, non white fighters to your list after reading that. lol

That's all right. Cubs fans think their team's gonna win it all every April, too.

Tyson vs. Williams did 140,000. lol

What is a good sales number for ppv buys?

I call 'em like I see 'em.

You know I got mad love for you, Nautilus, I could just picture you, though, trying to add some non-European, non white fighters to your list after reading that. lol

That's all right. Cubs fans think their team's gonna win it all every April, too.


Neils, you are plain wrong.

There were "your favorite top 5 fighters" threads maybe 3 months or so ago.

You can search for them and see who I voted for. If you find, you will see that you have just issued a false grave accusation. :D


Jabs did NOT list a single Euro fighter though.

You were BLIND to that. So you need to fire your ass from being a judge. :D

What is a good sales number for ppv buys?

Depends on what you mean by "good"

WWE wrestling events outdraw these heavyweight figures regularly. I think Trinidad-Mayorga did in the neighborhood of 300,000 - anyone verify/refute this? I don't know where to look for the stats....

Neils, you are plain wrong.

There were "your favorite top 5 fighters" threads maybe 3 months or so ago.

You can search for them and see who I voted for. If you find, you will see that you have just issued a false grave accusation. :D


Jabs has not listed a single Euro fighter though.

That's not saying anything, though.

I'm a white guy from Philadelphia...& I listed a Puerto Rican, two Mexicans, a Fillipino, a california-based Hispanic, & a black guy from my hometown.

I like fighters for how they fight, period.

That's not saying anything, though.

I'm a white guy from Philadelphia...& I listed a Puerto Rican, two Mexicans, a Fillipino, a california-based Hispanic, & a black guy from my hometown.

I like fighters for how they fight, period.



hmm .... me too :confused:

hmm .... me too :confused:


If you say so.

If you say so.



so there is no a single euro fighter that fights well according to you?

Tzyu, for example?

Tszyu is an awesome, great fighter.
I like Abdullaev, also....though I think he's not going to be as good as I thought he'd be upon turning pro.

so there is no a single euro fighter that fights well according to you?

Tzyu, for example?


lol, i dont think jabs likes tyszu, or at least he always picks against him...

Tszyu is an awesome, great fighter.
I like Abdullaev, also....though I think he's not going to be as good as I thought he'd be upon turning pro.


I thought Abdullaev sucked big time in his last fight that was telvised (I probably confuse him though with someone else though)

lol, i dont think jabs likes tyszu, or at least he always picks against him...


interesting


Jabs just posted a fun message in the Tyson/knee section