Larry Merchant claimed that Wladimir had merely outpunched himself in the Brewster fight. Larry also said that Vitaliy is a smarter and more resourcefull fighter than Wladimir is, and that Vitaliy knows how to conserve his energy.

The following Compubox numbers prove Larry Merchant's theory WRONG. The numbers show that Vitaliy boxed Danny at a substantially HIGHER TEMPO than Wladimir did against Lemon. Moreover, Vitaliy was able to easily maintain that HIGH TEMPO through round 8.

These Compubox numbers raise a worrisome question:

Why did Wlad collapse to the floor at the end of Round 4? (He then barely made it to round 5 and lost by a TKO.)



I believed and now even stronger believe that there WAS something really wrong with Wlad's health that night (whatever the reasons were). I also think that there should be a W.Kltschko-Brewster rematch.


Table 1. COMPUBOX PUNCH STATS for Vitaliy-Danny Fight:

Vitaliy Klitschko 53/94 41/75 33/59 35/71 37/81 30/70 33/56 22/33 (mid-round stoppage)

Danny Williams 4/21 4/22 9/30 4/26 4/20 10/32 6/28 3/14



Table 2. COMPUBOX PUNCH STATS for Wladimir-Lemon Fight:

Wladimir Klitschko 33/78 32/77 24/59 20/58 11/39

Lemon Brewster 7/34 6/28 9/31 6/27 15/38

Vit is a naturally larger man than Wlad, therefore more able to carry the weight. Remember, Wlad fought in the Olympics at 91kg. That means he's added nearly 50 lbs of muscle mass in a relatively short amount of time and his body can't handle the weight.

Vit is a naturally larger man than Wlad, therefore more able to carry the weight. Remember, Wlad fought in the Olympics at 91kg. That means he's added nearly 50 lbs of muscle mass in a relatively short amount of time and his body can't handle the weight.

Listen wlad is 1 inch shortet than vit and useally weighs 240-245 while vit y\useally weigh 245-250. You call that a big different, wlad has had higher tempo before. theres something fishy here.

Wlad was pushdown to 91 because vit was supposed to be in 91+
He pushed himself down a lot and had big problems making that weight.

Besides thats 8 years ago i think you get used to 40-50 pounds of muscle weight in that time.

Larry Merchant claimed that Wladimir had merely outpunched himself in the Brewster fight. Larry also said that Vitaliy is a smarter and more resourcefull fighter than Wladimir is, and that Vitaliy knows how to conserve his energy.

The following Compubox numbers prove Larry Merchant's theory WRONG. The numbers show that Vitaliy boxed Danny at a substantially HIGHER TEMPO than Wladimir did against Lemon. Moreover, Vitaliy was able to easily maintain that HIGH TEMPO through round 8.

These Compubox numbers raise a worrisome question:

Why did Wlad collapse to the floor at the end of Round 4? (He then barely made it to round 5 and lost by a TKO.)



I believed and now even stronger believe that there WAS something really wrong with Wlad's health that night (whatever the reasons were). I also think that there should be a W.Kltschko-Brewster rematch.


Table 1. COMPUBOX PUNCH STATS for Vitaliy-Danny Fight:

Vitaliy Klitschko 53/94 41/75 33/59 35/71 37/81 30/70 33/56 22/33 (mid-round stoppage)

Danny Williams 4/21 4/22 9/30 4/26 4/20 10/32 6/28 3/14



Table 2. COMPUBOX PUNCH STATS for Wladimir-Lemon Fight:

Wladimir Klitschko 33/78 32/77 24/59 20/58 11/39

Lemon Brewster 7/34 6/28 9/31 6/27 15/38

I agree with you, it dont make sense.

Nautilus...

PLEASE....stop with the excuses !

For the last time you psychotic Klit fans....

Wlad Klit is a MENTALLY WEAK fighter.
If ANY of you GEEKS had ever boxed for real....you'd realize how a fighter without true confidence could fizzle out.

Vitali is more of a poised, natural fighter than his younger brother.
He doesn't PANIC....& that's why he HOLDS HIS **** TOGETHER !


GOT IT ?

Wladimir is just a poor calibre fighter compared to his older brother. He had a lot of potential but it seems to have fizzled away. Losing to Sanders was one bad sign and then losing to Brewster was shocking because Brewster is a terrible fighter in my opinion for a so called top Heavyweight Champion.

Nautilus...

PLEASE....stop with the excuses !

For the last time you psychotic Klit fans....

Wlad Klit is a MENTALLY WEAK fighter.
If ANY of you GEEKS had ever boxed for real....you'd realize how a fighter without true confidence could fizzle out.

Vitali is more of a poised, natural fighter than his younger brother.
He doesn't PANIC....& that's why he HOLDS HIS **** TOGETHER !


GOT IT ?


Prove this. You do not have any evidence to back up your claims.

At least I try to argue my opinions with numbers and facts, and you do it with SLOGANS.

Prove this. You do not have any evidence to back up your claims.

At least I try to argue my opinions with numbers and facts, and you do it with SLOGANS.


Let me tell you something....you & your buddy Neuraxis like numbers too much.

Go talk those numbers in a boxing gym, & watch how you get laughed out of there.

You don't have any "facts" here !
I have more to base my theory on than do you.
You base your theory on the numbers of two fighting brothers....do you know how ridiculous that is ?

This is boxing, not Algebra....your numbers don't cut it here.
If you ever boxed, or spoke with people involved with the game, you'd never put this nonsense out there.

Larry Merchant claimed that Wladimir had merely outpunched himself in the Brewster fight. Larry also said that Vitaliy is a smarter and more resourcefull fighter than Wladimir is, and that Vitaliy knows how to conserve his energy.

The following Compubox numbers prove Larry Merchant's theory WRONG. The numbers show that Vitaliy boxed Danny at a substantially HIGHER TEMPO than Wladimir did against Lemon. Moreover, Vitaliy was able to easily maintain that HIGH TEMPO through round 8.

These Compubox numbers raise a worrisome question:

Why did Wlad collapse to the floor at the end of Round 4? (He then barely made it to round 5 and lost by a TKO.)



I believed and now even stronger believe that there WAS something really wrong with Wlad's health that night (whatever the reasons were). I also think that there should be a W.Kltschko-Brewster rematch.


Table 1. COMPUBOX PUNCH STATS for Vitaliy-Danny Fight:

Vitaliy Klitschko 53/94 41/75 33/59 35/71 37/81 30/70 33/56 22/33 (mid-round stoppage)

Danny Williams 4/21 4/22 9/30 4/26 4/20 10/32 6/28 3/14



Table 2. COMPUBOX PUNCH STATS for Wladimir-Lemon Fight:

Wladimir Klitschko 33/78 32/77 24/59 20/58 11/39

Lemon Brewster 7/34 6/28 9/31 6/27 15/38


They are two totally different people! You can't honestly think just because Vit can throw 50-80 punches for 8 rounds and not collapse that Wlad should be able to also, can you? I have a brother that is a world class marathon runner, but if I run for more than a couple miles I'll start puking! I think Wlad's problem in the Brewster fight was panic. Ever panic about something then feel totally drained afterwards? I think he was getting frustrated that he couldn't put Brewster away, then he got hit with a couple good shots and started to panic.....causing high amounts of fatigue.

The comparison of the two based on them being brothers is asinine.

They are two totally different people! You can't honestly think just because Vit can throw 50-80 punches for 8 rounds and not collapse that Wlad should be able to also, can you? I have a brother that is a world class marathon runner, but if I run for more than a couple miles I'll start puking! I think Wlad's problem in the Brewster fight was panic. Ever panic about something then feel totally drained afterwards? I think he was getting frustrated that he couldn't put Brewster away, then he got hit with a couple good shots and started to panic.....causing high amounts of fatigue.

The comparison of the two based on them being brothers is asinine.


Amen, urdaddy.

something that has more impact in the boxing world than psychology, more than weight...
DON KING.

simple as that. VK wasn't fighting one of DK's fighters, WK was.
Don won't give up a championship belt without some attempt to keep it, even with cheating. He knows Brewster is garbage and that WK woulda tore him up without the help of some cheating.
it's so obvious, yet so easy for haters to deny.

I doubt the FBI would waste their time if the claims had no weight :)

I hope we all find out the truth one day.

something that has more impact in the boxing world than psychology, more than weight...
DON KING.

simple as that. VK wasn't fighting one of DK's fighters, WK was.
Don won't give up a championship belt without some attempt to keep it, even with cheating. He knows Brewster is garbage and that WK woulda tore him up without the help of some cheating.
it's so obvious, yet so easy for haters to deny.

I doubt the FBI would waste their time if the claims had no weight :)

I hope we all find out the truth one day.

We already know the truth....you & the other nutlickers will just continue to fantasize.
Enjoy !

Corrie Sanders WHOOPED WK.. that's obvious.
but did you see how he could get up off the canvas on his own accord?
Even when he was dead tired and totally beat up. WK could still stand. and remember that it was HARD lefts that took WK down. There was not even ONE substantial punch thrown by Brewster.

PLUS... do you really think that WK is that much of a sore looser? He's probably smarter than most of the people on this forum, and he HONESTLY knew something was wrong? Do you rush to the hospital to get blood samples if you just got your ass kicked?

COME ON people!!

Whoever changed my custom title.....you're a pathetic weasel.
Very womanly, also.

when you can actually have an educated intellegent mature conversation or sound debate, then come back with a real response jabsRstiff.

Whoever changed my custom title.....you're a pathetic weasel.
Very womanly, also.


You can check the history in the store to see who changed your title, iritated dude.

You argument has been so far "Shut up, I know more". Please prove and NOT proclaim that you know more.

Whoever changed my custom title.....you're a pathetic weasel.
Very womanly, also.


Dodge did it.

Excuse me ?

Where's the intelligence in your debate ?
Sour grapes, paranoia, & bogus numbers aren't sound.
This is BOXING.....


I think Wlad's three KO losses are the numbers that mean more than anything.
Two of them occurred in matches he was winning. He has stamina/endurance problems....that are more tied to his mind than his body.

You can check the history in the store to see who changed your title, iritated dude.

You argument has been so far "Shut up, I know more". Please prove and NOT proclaim that you know more.


Can you please reply to my comments at least, I gave a strong arguement.

Nautilus.....


If your argument is that what one boxing brother does, the other also does automatically.....it is YOU who has far more to prove.

If you think this fighter was poisoned, or sick, the burden is even heavier.


I'm using BOXING knowledge here.....an understanding of FIGHTING, & the psyche involved.

You're using numbers that just don't mean a thing.

They are two totally different people! You can't honestly think just because Vit can throw 50-80 punches for 8 rounds and not collapse that Wlad should be able to also, can you? I have a brother that is a world class marathon runner, but if I run for more than a couple miles I'll start puking! I think Wlad's problem in the Brewster fight was panic. Ever panic about something then feel totally drained afterwards? I think he was getting frustrated that he couldn't put Brewster away, then he got hit with a couple good shots and started to panic.....causing high amounts of fatigue.

The comparison of the two based on them being brothers is asinine.

First off, they are not two totally different people, they have the same parents and grew up in the same household.

Second, Wlad did not panic because Brewster would not go down, he collapsed due to exaustion and went to the hospital. Brewster didn't hit Wlad nearly as hard or as much as Sanders did, and Wlad kept getting up and trying to fight back.

Third, who is your world class marathon runner brother? What place did he get in the Olympic Trials. If he is a sub 2:20 (world class is bout 2:06-2:08, but your point is made)guy, you can break 3:00 with about two months of training.

Can you please reply to my comments at least, I gave a strong arguement.


Read my first post....before yours, urdady.
What did you say differently than I ?

I said "panic"....I said "mentally weak".

Nautilus...

PLEASE....stop with the excuses !

For the last time you psychotic Klit fans....

Wlad Klit is a MENTALLY WEAK fighter.
If ANY of you GEEKS had ever boxed for real....you'd realize how a fighter without true confidence could fizzle out.

Vitali is more of a poised, natural fighter than his younger brother.
He doesn't PANIC....& that's why he HOLDS HIS **** TOGETHER !


GOT IT ?



This is more relevant to BOXING, than some numbers.

First off, they are not two totally different people, they have the same parents and grew up in the same household.

Second, Wlad did not panic because Brewster would not go down, he collapsed due to exaustion and went to the hospital. Brewster didn't hit Wlad nearly as hard or as much as Sanders did, and Wlad kept getting up and trying to fight back.

Third, who is your world class marathon runner brother? What place did he get in the Olympic Trials. If he is a sub 2:20 (world class is bout 2:06-2:08, but your point is made)guy, you can break 3:00 with about two months of training.


Michael & Leon Spinks grew up in the same household.

Leon was destroyed by Larry Holmes in three rounds.
Michael twice decisioned Larry.


Leon was poisoned, or sick, obviously.

The panic theory may make some sense.
I don't think that I get extremely tired when I panic though, more like I get hyper and on edge.
could be.

I'm relying on WK's knowledge of sports, sports medicine, sports therapy etc.

We're talking about BREWSTER. That is a fight that WK had NO UNDERSTANDING on as a Doctor. The other losses, he didn't complain or argue, he took them as defeats.

I could see one of the big sh*t talking boxers trying to defend a loss, but the K brothers have more dignity than that.

They are two totally different people! You can't honestly think just because Vit can throw 50-80 punches for 8 rounds and not collapse that Wlad should be able to also, can you? I have a brother that is a world class marathon runner, but if I run for more than a couple miles I'll start puking! I think Wlad's problem in the Brewster fight was panic. Ever panic about something then feel totally drained afterwards? I think he was getting frustrated that he couldn't put Brewster away, then he got hit with a couple good shots and started to panic.....causing high amounts of fatigue.

The comparison of the two based on them being brothers is asinine.



1. Wlad is an established boxer, an Olympic champion and a former WBO world champion. Wlad has a VERIFIABLE history of boxing at a HIGH TEMPO. Plase do check the COMPUBOX numbers for his fight with Mercer, for example. Moreover, Wlad and Vitaliy have been training side-by-side for many years, having very identical routines that build stamina.

2. The same can not be said about you. As you stated, you are not an Olympic champion in marathon, not a world champion; you are not a runner; and you do not train with your brother. Thus, your own words show that you have provided a very poor example that FAILS to approximate my example with any reasonable degree.

3. Since you have provided a poor example, your only argument so far is the above proclamation of "asininity", as you say.

Listen wlad is 1 inch shortet than vit and useally weighs 240-245 while vit y\useally weigh 245-250. You call that a big different, wlad has had higher tempo before. theres something fishy here.

Wlad was pushdown to 91 because vit was supposed to be in 91+
He pushed himself down a lot and had big problems making that weight.

Besides thats 8 years ago i think you get used to 40-50 pounds of muscle weight in that time.

He said Vitali is a "naturally" larger man. Wladimir put on 40-50 pounds of muscle to become a heavyweight. Vitali is a natural heavyweight.

what's his professional record after becoming a HW?

Nautilus.....


If your argument is that what one boxing brother does, the other also does automatically.....it is YOU who has far more to prove.

If you think this fighter was poisoned, or sick, the burden is even heavier.


I'm using BOXING knowledge here.....an understanding of FIGHTING, & the psyche involved.

You're using numbers that just don't mean a thing.

1. My argument is in the previous message.

2. How do judges score the rounds? On the "psyche involved"? Great guess.

"1. Wlad is an established boxer, an Olympic champion and a former WBO world champion. Wlad has a VERIFIABLE history of boxing at a HIGH TEMPO. Plase do check the COMPUBOX numbers for his fight with Mercer, for example. Moreover, Wlad and Vitaliy have been training side-by-side for many years, having very identical routines that build stamina."

So, you don't believe the resounding KO loss to Sanders could have anything to do with Wlad losing confidence....thus, seriously effecting his stamina ?

1. My argument is in the previous message.

2. How do judges score the rounds? On the "psyche involved"? Great guess.



Can you judge a round, just by numbers ?

What if Paul Spadafora lands a lot of his pitter-pats, but Diego Corrales lands a few huge, debilitating punches ?
Edge.....Corrales.


The numbers apply FAR LESS when it comes to stamina.
Admit it....Wlad & Vitali are two different fighters.
How come Vitali could stand up to Sanders' left hand, but Wlad couldn't ?

He said Vitali is a "naturally" larger man. Wladimir put on 40-50 pounds of muscle to become a heavyweight. Vitali is a natural heavyweight.


Wladimir and a lot of other HW boxers probably got an extra 30-40LB pounds since being 19-20. I am sure Vitaliy did too. So did many other outstanding HW boxers who competed in the Olympics at cruiserweight and LHW.

At least there was a point in time when Vitaliy and Wlad were both 40-50LB lighter. :)

KO loss to Sanders...
not panic, but a$$ whooping!
give WK credit though, he did stand back up for several of those knock downs AND the ref waved the fight off!!!

now let's look at Brewster... more power than Sanders??? NO

and even if so, Brewster didn't land a good shot against WK. and somehow WK couldn't even get himself off the canvas?
I don't think so!

First off, they are not two totally different people, they have the same parents and grew up in the same household.

Second, Wlad did not panic because Brewster would not go down, he collapsed due to exaustion and went to the hospital. Brewster didn't hit Wlad nearly as hard or as much as Sanders did, and Wlad kept getting up and trying to fight back.

Third, who is your world class marathon runner brother? What place did he get in the Olympic Trials. If he is a sub 2:20 (world class is bout 2:06-2:08, but your point is made)guy, you can break 3:00 with about two months of training.


Unless you're a simese twin I don't think because you have the same parents makes you the same person. How do you know he didn't panic? Were you in his head? He sure looked paniced to me. The claims that Wlad did one thing in one fight and a totally different something in another also brings no merit. Two seperate occasions.....different circumstances....different fighters.....different type punches.....punch locations....everything. Just because you react to a situation one way, one time, does not mean you will always act likewise in the future. I still think he punched himself out trying to stop Brewster....then got hit with a couple decent shots (albeit to the common eye nowhere near the shots he took from Sanders), paniced and lost all his stamina.

In response to the other claim about panic, yes you do get amped and feel a rush at first.....but what happens when the rush leaves. YOU FEEL EXHAUSTED.....that rush left when he heard the bell ring and the round was over.

Can you judge a round, just by numbers ?

What if Paul Spadafora lands a lot of his pitter-pats, but Diego Corrales lands a few huge, debilitating punches ?
Edge.....Corrales.


The numbers apply FAR LESS when it comes to stamina.
Admit it....Wlad & Vitali are two different fighters.
How come Vitali could stand up to Sanders' left hand, but Wlad couldn't ?

Numbers alone do not decide a round, but numbers do provide important objective information.

Vitali did not let Corrie lend his great left punch consequetively. That made a huge difference. This however is not related to the stamina of two brothers discussed here.

Numbers alone do not decide a round, but numbers provide important objective information.

Vitali did not let Corrie lend his great left punch consequetively. That's madea huge difference. This however is NOT related to the stamina of two brothers discussed here.


Sanders' first clean left put Wlad down....it's not like Corrie needed any more than that.

"This however is NOT related to the stamina of two brothers discussed here"

Well, two brothers, & how they handle stress, also NOT RELATED !

Listen.....I'm not arguing with you guys because I don't like the Klits.

I think you guys are just letting emotions cloud your judgement, & create bizarre theories.

You're coming off as sore sports with this ridiculousness.

wlad punched himself out agianst lame-ass brewster... he threw alot of HARD punches trying to take lame-ass out and look impressive by stopping a guy early, who had never been knocked down before...

the numbers don't tell you how hard a guy is punching... wlad was putting everything he had behind alot of his punches...

I disagree with the exhaustion from panic theory.

I can stand up and move around when I'm exhausted. WK could barely even stand on his own accord!!!
and if you listen to what HE says (granted you'll have to be unbiased and assume he is not a liar) he was fatigued from like the 2nd round and HE DIDN'T KNOW WHY. If you want to know, ask him. Why would he lie to save face? This man is intellegent, a Doctor.

Did you read the articles that Boxingscene put up about this fight? How there was an intruder in the Klitschko camp at this fight? How all the samples that were taken at the hospital magically 'dissapeared'? How the water bottle that was given to WK couldn't be found right after the fight? How the FBI was involved?

wow, lots of stuff happenening from a little bit of panic...

oh yeah, that's right!! Don King has never been thought of to fix fights or corrupt boxing... NEVER!! I would never DREAM of hearing such a thing!! *faint*

Sanders' first clean left put Wlad down....it's not like Corrie needed any more than that.

"This however is NOT related to the stamina of two brothers discussed here"

Well, two brothers, & how they handle stress, also NOT RELATED !


No, if you watch carefully, in the beginning Wlad missed one very strong left punch that shook him. Wlad then got pissed and tried to hit Sanders hard in return, and then Wlad almost immediately missed the SECOND exactly same hard left punch that sent him on the canvas.

wlad punched himself out agianst lame-ass brewster... he threw alot of HARD punches trying to take lame-ass out and look impressive by stopping a guy early, who had never been knocked down before...

the numbers don't tell you how hard a guy is punching... wlad was putting everything he had behind alot of his punches...

I agree, he was throwing some hard combinations like throwing a left jab then a left hook. He wore himself down.

i like the klits, but there's been no proof of foul play, just speculation... i'd love for proof to come out that wlad was drugged and they reverse the outcome of the fight and put king in jail, but until that happens, the next best thing is to say wlad punched himself out and beat himself...

I disagree with the exhaustion from panic theory.

I can stand up and move around when I'm exhausted. WK could barely even stand on his own accord!!!
and if you listen to what HE says (granted you'll have to be unbiased and assume he is not a liar) he was fatigued from like the 2nd round and HE DIDN'T KNOW WHY. If you want to know, ask him. Why would he lie to save face? This man is intellegent, a Doctor.

Did you read the articles that Boxingscene put up about this fight? How there was an intruder in the Klitschko camp at this fight? How all the samples that were taken at the hospital magically 'dissapeared'? How the water bottle that was given to WK couldn't be found right after the fight? How the FBI was involved?

wow, lots of stuff happenening from a little bit of panic...

oh yeah, that's right!! Don King has never been thought of to fix fights or corrupt boxing... NEVER!! I would never DREAM of hearing such a thing!! *faint*

All speculation....ridiculous speculation, at that.

I'm done with you guys. You have no idea how foolish, & demented, you are coming off.

Listen.....I'm not arguing with you guys because I don't like the Klits.

I think you guys are just letting emotions cloud your judgement, & create bizarre theories.

You're coming off as sore sports with this ridiculousness.


Well, look in the mirror before you judge others,

Well, look in the mirror before you judge others,



I never make excuses, so I don't know what you're talking about.

You are just a bitter Klit fan.

[QUOTE=Pno]I disagree with the exhaustion from panic theory.

I can stand up and move around when I'm exhausted. WK could barely even stand on his own accord!!!
and if you listen to what HE says (granted you'll have to be unbiased and assume he is not a liar) he was fatigued from like the 2nd round and HE DIDN'T KNOW WHY. If you want to know, ask him. Why would he lie to save face? This man is intellegent, a Doctor.

Did you read the articles that Boxingscene put up about this fight? How there was an intruder in the Klitschko camp at this fight? How all the samples that were taken at the hospital magically 'dissapeared'? How the water bottle that was given to WK couldn't be found right after the fight? How the FBI was involved?

wow, lots of stuff happenening from a little bit of panic...

oh yeah, that's right!! Don King has never been thought of to fix fights or corrupt boxing... NEVER!! I would never DREAM of hearing such a thing!! *faint*[/QUOT


Wow......you honestly think that Don King would have went thru all that trouble to make Lamon ****ing Brewster champion of the world. Put together a movie (maybe hire Michael Moore) with all this propoganda and you can call it "The Night That The Lights Went Out In Klitchsko". You are seriously a conspircay theorist!

Awwwww who changed Jabz title :mad:

I agree, he was throwing some hard combinations like throwing a left jab then a left hook. He wore himself down.


As if Vitaliy was NOT throwing hard punches, just some light ones. he-he.

Coincidentally, did not those punches put Danny on the floor four times?

So, I do disagree strongly with your implications.

I never make excuses, so I don't know what you're talking about.

You are just a bitter Klit fan.


1. Look, take it easy.

2. I presented some interesting numbers and I wanted to discuss them in a polite, friendly manner.

3. I am more of a bitter Jirov fan. :(

As if Vitaliy WAS not throwing hard punches, just some light ones. he-he.

Coincidentally, did not those punches put Danny on the floor four times?

So, I do disagree strongly.

Nat i just don't think Wladimir is good plain and simple and i think he got beaten fair and square both fights. As for Vitali i respect his ability

If I am a conspiracy theorist,
I got my info on this one from BOXINGSCENE.com

If I am a conspiracy theorist,
I got my info on this one from BOXINGSCENE.com

from other conspiracy theorists.

urdaddyinAZ....

so you're saying that Don King has NEVER fixed a fight, that Byrd beat Mcline, Ruiz beat Golota, that Don King is the most fair guy in boxing?

you honestly think that Don King is not the most corrupt guy in boxing?

When Wlad is KO'd for the fourth, fifth, & sixth times in his career....what will you all be dreaming up then ?

Believe me....#4 comes as soon as he faces a soild fighter.

Nat i just don't think Wladimir is good plain and simple and i think he got beaten fair and square both fights. As for Vitali i respect his ability


Then just say it. Ok. You did just do that.

urdaddyinAZ....

so you're saying that Don King has NEVER fixed a fight, that Byrd beat Mcline, Ruiz beat Golota, that Don King is the most fair guy in boxing?

you honestly think that Don King is not the most corrupt guy in boxing?


He's corrupt....BUT POISONING ?

C'mon....reality check time !

When Wlad is KO'd for the fourth, fifth, & sixth times in his career....what will you all be dreaming up then ?

Believe me....#4 comes as soon as he faces a soild fighter.


why did he get tired though?

He's corrupt....BUT POISONING ?

C'mon....reality check time !

there could be many reasons other than poisoning, some serious health problems for instance

i don't think poison...
rather traqualizer..

Byrd thought that same type of tactic was used on him when he fought WK in Germany.. something about clear substance on the gloves of WK..

Then just say it. Ok. You did just do that.

Of course i did, you'll always get my honest opinions but it does not mean they are correct. It's how i judged and feel how the situation turned out really. I'm opened minded enough to respect your views Nautilus. ;)

king is corrupt, but until there is some proof, it's more sensible to say wlad punched himself out than it is to say that king drugged him and then hid all evidence including blood samples at the hospital

why did he get tired though?


Because he has confidence problems.....lots of self-doubt.
He does not handle pressure well.

Do you think this is uncommon in boxing ?
It's not....in fact, I believe it's what separates the elite fighters from the rest of the world.

Wlad lacks the instincts that a real fighter needs.
Perhaps he's too much of a deep thinker to be a supreme fighter ?
That's what I think..because I see the PHYSICAL TOOLS are there, but they're held back by his psyche.

king is corrupt, but until there is some proof, it's more sensible to say wlad punched himself out than it is to say that king drugged him and then hid all evidence including blood samples at the hospital


I think it is safer to say that Wlad did not posses his usual stamina that day, and stop right there

it's either that same conspiracy you're talking about (and I support) or SERIOUS COINCIDENCE.

you decide.

I think it is safer to say that Wlad did not posses his usual stamina that day, and stop right there

thats fine too...

Because he has confidence problems.....lots of self-doubt.
He does not handle preesure well.

Do you think this is uncommon in boxing ?
It's not....in fact, I believe it's what separates the elite fighters from the rest of the world.

Wlad lacks the instincts that a real fighter needs.
Perhaps he's too much of a deep thinker to be a supreme fighter ?
That's what I think..because I see the PHYSICAL TOOLS are there, but they're held back by his psyche.


You may be right, but I would really love to see Brestwer-WK II.

This fight will test all of the existing theories rigorously.

initialy i though it was a health related issue like diabetes or something, but since nothing has come of it, that isn't the case...

some guys like tommy morrison and foreman when he was young, don't relax well in the ring and punch every punch with all their power... and then tire very easy... it may or may not be the case with wlad...

urdaddyinAZ....

so you're saying that Don King has NEVER fixed a fight, that Byrd beat Mcline, Ruiz beat Golota, that Don King is the most fair guy in boxing?

you honestly think that Don King is not the most corrupt guy in boxing?


You are right, I think Don King has done some scandalous things. Plant a mysterious person in Klit's locker room? Poison him? Steal samples from hospital? For Lamon Brewster......no way in hell.

You are right, I think Don King has done some scandalous things. Plant a mysterious person in Klit's locker room? Poison him? Steal samples from hospital? For Lamon Brewster......no way in hell.

K2 said ony:

1. There were NO mysterious people. (officially at least)
2. Analyses did go missing. K2 posted the documents on the web, including their attorney's letter asserting that.

the poison, stealing samples is hearsay.. who really knows. no need to blame that on DK.
BUT there was a member of Klitshko's camp that was told "I'm showing that you've already shown up (not exact words)" when he arrived as in someone posed in place of him.

either way, only a rematch will prove anything... it's probably too late for any investigators to solve anything on this one.

That must have been false news that said someone got through security.

my bad.

i think someone threw a water bottle at him from the grassy knoll. When the water from the bottle hit him, it caused a chemical reaction with the vasoline that was rubbed on him by Scott Peterson when they went fishing the previous day.

i think someone threw a water bottle at him from the grassy knoll. When the water from the bottle hit him, it caused a chemical reaction with the vasoline that was rubbed on him by Scott Peterson when they went fishing the previous day.

LMAO Good one :D

no trolling please

I really think that Wlad's collapse was predomanantly a "pacing" issue. Simply put, he shot his wad. I put most of the blame in his corner and with Manny Stewart mostly. The "expert legend" on the team has GOT to tell his fighter that he better keep something in the tank. Stewart is more interested in coming across as telegenic than anything else these days. He knows full well where his future lies.

He said Vitali is a "naturally" larger man. Wladimir put on 40-50 pounds of muscle to become a heavyweight. Vitali is a natural heavyweight.

They are both natural heavyweights, dont tell that you think wlad should have been at cruiserweight.

Larry Merchant claimed that Wladimir had merely outpunched himself in the Brewster fight. Larry also said that Vitaliy is a smarter and more resourcefull fighter than Wladimir is, and that Vitaliy knows how to conserve his energy.

The following Compubox numbers prove Larry Merchant's theory WRONG. The numbers show that Vitaliy boxed Danny at a substantially HIGHER TEMPO than Wladimir did against Lemon. Moreover, Vitaliy was able to easily maintain that HIGH TEMPO through round 8.

These Compubox numbers raise a worrisome question:

Why did Wlad collapse to the floor at the end of Round 4? (He then barely made it to round 5 and lost by a TKO.)



I believed and now even stronger believe that there WAS something really wrong with Wlad's health that night (whatever the reasons were). I also think that there should be a W.Kltschko-Brewster rematch.


Table 1. COMPUBOX PUNCH STATS for Vitaliy-Danny Fight:

Vitaliy Klitschko 53/94 41/75 33/59 35/71 37/81 30/70 33/56 22/33 (mid-round stoppage)

Danny Williams 4/21 4/22 9/30 4/26 4/20 10/32 6/28 3/14



Table 2. COMPUBOX PUNCH STATS for Wladimir-Lemon Fight:

Wladimir Klitschko 33/78 32/77 24/59 20/58 11/39

Lemon Brewster 7/34 6/28 9/31 6/27 15/38



I am not a Klitschko fanatic. And I have seen many fights. I have seen many men punch themselves out and get tired and exhausted. Wlad looked sick. I am not making excuses at all. He lost the fight, plain and simple. But something wasnt right after the first round of that fight. He looked ready to die after 3 minutes, a superbly conditioned athlete couldnt possibly look like that without something being wrong. Once again for you Klit bashers, I am not a fanboy, and I dont deny the loss. But something was not right, whether he ate something bad or was poisoned, whether it was a conspiracy or diarhea, something was wrong.

I really think that Wlad's collapse was predomanantly a "pacing" issue. Simply put, he shot his wad. I put most of the blame in his corner and with Manny Stewart mostly. The "expert legend" on the team has GOT to tell his fighter that he better keep something in the tank. Stewart is more interested in coming across as telegenic than anything else these days. He knows full well where his future lies.


But Vtialiy paced himself even at a higher tempo :confused:

no trolling please

what does that mean?

what does that mean?


never mind :D

I am not a Klitschko fanatic. And I have seen many fights. I have seen many men punch themselves out and get tired and exhausted. Wlad looked sick. I am not making excuses at all. He lost the fight, plain and simple. But something wasnt right after the first round of that fight. He looked ready to die after 3 minutes, a superbly conditioned athlete couldnt possibly look like that without something being wrong. Once again for you Klit bashers, I am not a fanboy, and I dont deny the loss. But something was not right, whether he ate something bad or was poisoned, whether it was a conspiracy or diarhea, something was wrong.....................

But Vtialiy paced himself even at a higher tempo :confused:
We obviously have differing definitions for "pace".
If you over-do it, no matter what the activity level, you have not paced yourself.
The corner men should be able to detect when their fighter is in danger of becoming exausted.

We obviously have differing definitions for "pace".
If you over-do it, no matter what the activity level, you have not paced yourself.
The corner men should be able to detect when their fighter is in danger of becoming exausted.



gotcha. thanks

Earth to the poster - - - Wladimir and Vitali are brothers but they are not the same person.
A few other reasons:
-Brewster was pressuring Wlad much more then Williams, who seemed to be walking with concrete boots.
-Wlad was throwing many more HARD punches. When Vitali throws a jab he really puts his shoulder into it and snaps it, when Vitali throws a jab he just pushes it out
-Wlad has a much lesser chin, and thus when your getting pressure from a puncher, you will tire out more as your exerting more energy to get away from the punches-Brewster was setting the pace, but against Williams Vitali was setting the pace
-Wlad was wobbled and hurt in round 3-he panicked and that also exerted more energy
-And yes, Wlad may be an inch shorter then his brother but at 245 he is not lean like his brother . . he began his career fighting in the 220s, while Klitschko has always been around 240. Klitschko put on too much muscle mass with the weights and he can't sustain a high tempo which he is not setting at that weight.

I disagree with the exhaustion from panic theory.

I can stand up and move around when I'm exhausted. WK could barely even stand on his own accord!!!
and if you listen to what HE says (granted you'll have to be unbiased and assume he is not a liar) he was fatigued from like the 2nd round and HE DIDN'T KNOW WHY. If you want to know, ask him. Why would he lie to save face? This man is intellegent, a Doctor.

Did you read the articles that Boxingscene put up about this fight? How there was an intruder in the Klitschko camp at this fight? How all the samples that were taken at the hospital magically 'dissapeared'? How the water bottle that was given to WK couldn't be found right after the fight? How the FBI was involved?

wow, lots of stuff happenening from a little bit of panic...

oh yeah, that's right!! Don King has never been thought of to fix fights or corrupt boxing... NEVER!! I would never DREAM of hearing such a thing!! *faint*

Have you ever boxed? If you are fighting tight (and with a fear of getting punched out) you will get tired, and fast. I have sparred and seen numerous guys spar a number of rounds and be so exhausted they could hardly stand.
Wlad was not tired from the 2nd round on-just watch the fight. You don't thrown as many hard punches as he did while you're dead tired. Wlad didn't get really tired until he shot his load trying to knock out Brewster in the 4th. Ha, foul play . . .that would've been the crappiest job of foul play ever, esp. since Brewster was on his way outta there in the 4th round. I guess they were betting on the poison working and Brewster having a solid chin, eh? Thus stuff cracks me up . . .

They are both natural heavyweights, dont tell that you think wlad should have been at cruiserweight.

You don't get it. The point is that Vitali weighing 250 is a natural weight for him, for Wlad it is an un-natural weight. Wlad had to work hard in the gym and with weights to become a solid muscular heavyweight. Vitali just has to stay in shape because he is a naturally bigger man then his brother.

He handles the weight better and that is why his stamina is much better. People forget that Wlad blew up against Purity for his first loss in a manner very similiar to the Brewtser loss.

Wlad has talent, but he lacks the killer instinct that Vitali has. He has clearly shown that he can't take a punch as well as Vitali and he doesnt have the stamina of Vitali. None of the heavyweights are scared of Wlad anymore and will jump on him to test that chin or make Wlad beat on them until he punches himself out. Wlad can't wait on fighters, he is too big to wait. He needs to jump on guys and put guys away. Two years ago, a guy like Williamson would have never lasted past 2 rounds with Wlad.

Earth to the poster - - - Wladimir and Vitali are brothers but they are not the same person.
A few other reasons:
-Brewster was pressuring Wlad much more then Williams, who seemed to be walking with concrete boots.
-Wlad was throwing many more HARD punches. When Wlad throws a jab he really puts his shoulder into it and snaps it, when Vitali throws a jab he just pushes it out
-Wlad has a much lesser chin, and thus when your getting pressure from a puncher, you will tire out more as your exerting more energy to get away from the punches-Brewster was setting the pace, but against Williams Vitali was setting the pace
-Wlad was wobbled and hurt in round 3-he panicked and that also exerted more energy
-And yes, Wlad may be an inch shorter then his brother but at 245 he is not lean like his brother . . he began his career fighting in the 220s, while Klitschko has always been around 240. Klitschko put on too much muscle mass with the weights and he can't sustain a high tempo which he is not setting at that weight.

I basically agree with you, but Vitali started out in the 230s for his first 10 fights. Wlad has shown time and time again that he can't handle 245 lbs. I thought that one of his most awkward fights was against Barrett and he came into the fight at 244 lbs. Yes he dominated Barrett but he looked completely awkward in doing so. Wlad's best weight is 238-240 lbs.

Two years ago, a guy like Williamson would have never lasted past 2 rounds with Wlad.

This is just not true.

Have you ever boxed? If you are fighting tight (and with a fear of getting punched out) you will get tired, and fast. I have sparred and seen numerous guys spar a number of rounds and be so exhausted they could hardly stand.
Wlad was not tired from the 2nd round on-just watch the fight. You don't thrown as many hard punches as he did while you're dead tired. Wlad didn't get really tired until he shot his load trying to knock out Brewster in the 4th. Ha, foul play . . .that would've been the crappiest job of foul play ever, esp. since Brewster was on his way outta there in the 4th round. I guess they were betting on the poison working and Brewster having a solid chin, eh? Thus stuff cracks me up . . .


1 - Wlad was the one who said he noticed an unnatural fatigue from the 2nd round. He would know better than a spectator judging his punches.

2 - the referee said he's never seen anything like that in all his years. Has he never seen a fighter outpunch himself?

3 - which better way would you suggest foul play? bribing the judges like it would ever go that far...

All i know is vitaly is tha great today

agreed. :)

at least until someone knocks him down, much less out.
:D

I basically agree with you, but Vitali started out in the 230s for his first 10 fights. Wlad has shown time and time again that he can't handle 245 lbs. I thought that one of his most awkward fights was against Barrett and he came into the fight at 244 lbs. Yes he dominated Barrett but he looked completely awkward in doing so. Wlad's best weight is 238-240 lbs.


So you really believe that Wlad merely outpunched himself?

Can you please reply to my comments at least, I gave a strong arguement.



I have replied to your weak argument above.

I have replied to your weak argument above.


Don't try acting hard.....four hours after we stopped even discussing the matter. Bottom line is there are 2-3 people that side with your story and about 20 people that see it somewhat the way I see it. Math doesn't lie!

Don't try acting hard.....four hours after we stopped even discussing the matter. Bottom line is there are 2-3 people that side with your story and about 20 people that see it somewhat the way I see it. Math doesn't lie!


They are two totally different people! You can't honestly think just because Vit can throw 50-80 punches for 8 rounds and not collapse that Wlad should be able to also, can you? I have a brother that is a world class marathon runner, but if I run for more than a couple miles I'll start puking! I think Wlad's problem in the Brewster fight was panic. Ever panic about something then feel totally drained afterwards? I think he was getting frustrated that he couldn't put Brewster away, then he got hit with a couple good shots and started to panic.....causing high amounts of fatigue.

The comparison of the two based on them being brothers is asinine.



1. Wlad is an established boxer, an Olympic champion and a former WBO world champion. Wlad has a VERIFIABLE history of boxing at a HIGH TEMPO. Plase do check the COMPUBOX numbers for his fight with Mercer, for example. Moreover, Wlad and Vitaliy have been training side-by-side for many years, having very identical routines that build stamina.

2. The same can not be said about you. As you stated, you are not an Olympic champion in marathon, not a world champion; you are not a runner; and you do not train with your brother. Thus, your own words show that you have provided a very poor example that FAILS to approximate my example with any reasonable degree.

3. Since you have provided a poor example, your only argument so far is the above proclamation of "asininity", as you say.

Don't try acting hard.....four hours after we stopped even discussing the matter. Bottom line is there are 2-3 people that side with your story and about 20 people that see it somewhat the way I see it. Math doesn't lie!


You exaggerate and bias the numbers. What Math? Give me a break.

You do not even know what Math is.

Don't try acting hard.....four hours after we stopped even discussing the matter. Bottom line is there are 2-3 people that side with your story and about 20 people that see it somewhat the way I see it. Math doesn't lie!


But your logic does fail you.

so if the majority of people believe something, it's true?

there are towns in this world where the majority of people believe the Holocaust never happened. so I guess the Jews lied about their oppression?

so if the majority of people believe something, it's true?

there are towns in this world where the majority of people believe the Holocaust never happened. so I guess the Jews lied about their oppression?

Exactly.



.

The bottom line is you guys are pulling **** out of your ass to try and justify the fact Wlad lost to, what looked like at the time, an inferior boxer.

You don't know the absolute truth, neither do I. I just think after a majority of the people come on here and say (and justify with knowledge of the sport) they think Wlad punched himself out and lost his stamina. You guys could care less and continue to tell everybody else that they are forgetting that he's Vitali's brother. What in the hell does that have to do with the situation? Maybe I made a stupid comparison myself, but the brother factor thing is really where people are disagreeing. There is nothing anywhere that will justify the statements that were made that since one brother has certain skills and stamina, that the other does too. Do you know how slly that sounds? Have your opinion, I don't care.......let me have mine and don't try to slide your little one liners in 4 hours later to try and get the last word.

Wlad is no where close to Vital..IMHO

So you really believe that Wlad merely outpunched himself?

No but whatever the other factors were that caused him to tire we will have no way of ever knowing.

The bottom line is you guys are pulling **** out of your ass to try and justify the fact Wlad lost to, what looked like at the time, an inferior boxer.

You don't know the absolute truth, neither do I. I just think after a majority of the people come on here and say (and justify with knowledge of the sport) they think Wlad punched himself out and lost his stamina. You guys could care less and continue to tell everybody else that they are forgetting that he's Vitali's brother. What in the hell does that have to do with the situation? Maybe I made a stupid comparison myself, but the brother factor thing is really where people are disagreeing. There is nothing anywhere that will justify the statements that were made that since one brother has certain skills and stamina, that the other does too. Do you know how slly that sounds? Have your opinion, I don't care.......let me have mine and don't try to slide your little one liners in 4 hours later to try and get the last word.



Don't be paranoid: noone tries to "slip one-liners 4 hours later."

Look, we all have jobs and I can not sit here for many hours and argue with you. So I checked this website in the morning, in the afternoon, and now. I post when I can. I could care less who wins the argument.

My point was:

(i) I believe that the K2 brothers are very similar in their training and many previous achievements;

(ii) Wlad does have a verifiable history of fighting at a high TEMPO, even independently of his brother;

(iii) the numerical comparisons given in my initial post are of interest to me given the initial theses (i) and (ii).

What is so freaking unreasonable about my point?

If you disagree with this opinion that's fine, but don't go and call it stupid.

No but whatever the other factors were that caused him to tire we will have no way of ever knowing.



That's true.

No but whatever the other factors were that caused him to tire we will have no way of ever knowing.

there are no other factors. he just got tired and lost thats it PERIOD.

there are no other factors. he just got tired and lost thats it PERIOD.



adn why do you say so? :D

there is no proof of any foul play. sometimes athletes just dont meet their potential and it could be unfair to the athlete because all that pressure can take an effect on you and i think thats what hsppened to wlad

there is no proof of any foul play. sometimes athletes just dont meet their potential and it could be unfair to the athlete because all that pressure can take an effect on you and i think thats what hsppened to wlad

Other factors does not only mean foul play.

There is clearly a difference:

Brewster: http://www.klitschko.com/gallery/index.php?lang=en&task=image&dir=fights/Wladimir/45_Lamon_Brewster&file=scena0353.jpg

Purrity: http://www.klitschko.com/gallery/index.php?lang=en&task=show&dir=fights/Wladimir/25_Ross_Puritty&file=25_Ross_Puritty_294.jpg

i know that, i think it was an accumilation of pressure due to the high expectations placed on both him and his brother. his brother has reacted differently to the expectations and he has thrived but the same cant be said about wlad

there is no proof of any foul play. sometimes athletes just dont meet their potential and it could be unfair to the athlete because all that pressure can take an effect on you and i think thats what hsppened to wlad

It indeed could be

a) pressure (Wlad suddenly became different fighter)
b) accidental mistake in use of medicaments
c) mistake in use of steroids/doping (i hope not!!!)
d) unknown health problem
e) foul play (tranquilizers slipped)


The medical analyses went missing after the fight despite K2 requests to secure them, which implicitly supports (e), but neither (b) nor (c).

There is clearly a difference:

Brewster: http://www.klitschko.com/gallery/index.php?lang=en&task=image&dir=fights/Wladimir/45_Lamon_Brewster&file=scena0353.jpg

Purrity: http://www.klitschko.com/gallery/index.php?lang=en&task=show&dir=fights/Wladimir/25_Ross_Puritty&file=25_Ross_Puritty_294.jpg



this is a good point

As I said before, Wlad's mind has been polluted with all these L.A. sluts and what not. All of his indulgence made him even more arrogant and less determined.

As I said before, Wlad's mind has been polluted with all these L.A. sluts and what not. All of his indulgence made him even more arrogant and less determined.



well, that's a theory

Wlad was drugged. End of story.

i really think wlad has lost his way since the sanders fight. he was the man everyone was afraid of, lewis didnt even wanna fight him. hes a devestating puncher, he had good speed and like his brother was awkward because of his size. hes got heart, you can tell from the way he kept getting up from them sanders bombs, but i think he needs a fresh approach, and a new trainer. he needs to use his jab more and gain the centre of the ring. in his last fights he has tried to brawl, and his chin hasnt been holding up. lewis proved you dont need no iron chin to be a great boxer. he needs to do a rahman, fight some bums, 6-8 fights a year, get a buzz about him again and then fight for a title.

or he could just be the next micheal grant.

who knows

i really think wlad has lost his way since the sanders fight. he was the man everyone was afraid of, lewis didnt even wanna fight him. hes a devestating puncher, he had good speed and like his brother was awkward because of his size. hes got heart, you can tell from the way he kept getting up from them sanders bombs, but i think he needs a fresh approach, and a new trainer. he needs to use his jab more and gain the centre of the ring. in his last fights he has tried to brawl, and his chin hasnt been holding up. lewis proved you dont need no iron chin to be a great boxer. he needs to do a rahman, fight some bums, 6-8 fights a year, get a buzz about him again and then fight for a title.

or he could just be the next micheal grant.

who knows
Wladmir is simply not the fighter Vitali is. Vitali is the more rugged, resourceful fighter of the 2.

i really think wlad has lost his way since the sanders fight. he was the man everyone was afraid of, lewis didnt even wanna fight him. hes a devestating puncher, he had good speed and like his brother was awkward because of his size. hes got heart, you can tell from the way he kept getting up from them sanders bombs, but i think he needs a fresh approach, and a new trainer. he needs to use his jab more and gain the centre of the ring. in his last fights he has tried to brawl, and his chin hasnt been holding up. lewis proved you dont need no iron chin to be a great boxer. he needs to do a rahman, fight some bums, 6-8 fights a year, get a buzz about him again and then fight for a title.

or he could just be the next micheal grant.

who knows

Something tells me that you haven't seen Wlad v. Nicholson.

nope, i know he won, but what are you getting at?

Wlad was drugged. End of story.

do you actually believe that :confused:

nope, i know he won, but what are you getting at?

He looked really good in doing so. If Wlad isn't the same after either of his two recent losses, it would clearly have to be that he isn't the same after his fight with Brewster. I think I am going to have to post the fight in the download section.

Wlad vs. Nicholson: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84104#post84104

do you actually believe that :confused:


Yes, it is what WK believes.

WK killed himself by trying to finish LB too early in the fight.

this is a good point

guess you didn't see this 1zz...

There is clearly a difference:

Brewster: http://www.klitschko.com/gallery/index.php?lang=en&task=image&dir=fights/Wladimir/45_Lamon_Brewster&file=scena0353.jpg

Purrity: http://www.klitschko.com/gallery/index.php?lang=en&task=show&dir=fights/Wladimir/25_Ross_Puritty&file=25_Ross_Puritty_294.jpg


meaning this...
:)

Wlad didn't look good at all in the Nicholson fight. It was a snooze fest until Wlad finally learned Nicholson was a joke and threw a good left hook.

that is exactly right....they are two totally different people, and even identical twins are different....

he's either got to prove himself from scratch or go down in flames trying. This upcoming year might answer those questions.

Wlad didn't look good at all in the Nicholson fight. It was a snooze fest until Wlad finally learned Nicholson was a joke and threw a good left hook.

This just in, most of Wlad's fights are snooze fests.

This just in, most of Wlad's fights are snooze fests.



Wlad-Bruster rematch will be a snooze fest as well. I will be worried for Bruster's health too.

i have a theory. everyone knows that the ukranian primeminister was drugged/posioned, so maybe they did the same to wlad because of his political stance

Wlad had just punched himself out. In boxing you don't just throw your shots you have to be economical, something that a prefessional prize fighter should know, this is especially a cardinal rule in the heavyweight division. When you look at the tape you see how many times that Wlad's punches hit gloves or missed completly. When you box you want to take the open shots and occasionally throw flurries. Another example of a fighter punching himself out basically to a point where he was knocked out both from punishment and fatigue would be Fernando Vargas when he fought De La Hoya.

No excuse Wlad just punched himself out, he has to be more economical!

because they are 2 defferent people. alot of fighters can go more than 4 rounds, others can't

there's just no way to completely know what happened at this point, no matter how much credability one thinks they have.
Odds seem clear, but it was quite different than any other remotely similar boxing situation I've ever witnessed.

there's just no way to completely know what happened at this point, no matter how much credability one thinks they have.
Odds seem clear, but it was quite different than any other remotely similar boxing situation I've ever witnessed.


is this the longest thread ever??????

is this the longest thread ever??????

No, check out Pinoy Lang in the lounge! 200 some pages of another language.

like a big hairy mole on the arse that just won't go away!!
:D
na, really I don't mind, doesn't bother me one bit :P

How many punches a boxer throws also dep on opponent

he he he guess that did not make sense. I meant to say the punching rate also depended upon your opponent. if your opponent can move fast then obviously you can't punch that many. I wish you post some more statistics from other fights. Statistics is garbage if you just pull one thing out of the batch.

he he he guess that did not make sense. I meant to say the punching rate also depended upon your opponent. if your opponent can move fast then obviously you can't punch that many. I wish you post some more statistics from other fights. Statistics is garbage if you just pull one thing out of the batch.

Compubox has more. Check it out, especially Wlad-Merser fight.