There are a couple different ways to look at this fight, first of which being that both men fought when they should have back in 93(right after Bowe won the title). Had this of happened I believe Bowe would have ripped Lewis up, Lewis still had a lot of growing to do and given the right matchup he could have been beeten by a few different fighters.
The second would be prime for prime, if they could have both fought in there prime I believe it would have been a u pickem, what does everyone think?

Bowe wins in 93
Lewis wins in 96
Lewis wins now

Bowe wins in 93
Lewis wins in 96
Lewis wins now

Sounds about right.
'96 would have been a real "crossroads" fight. Bowe took a turn for the worse, & Lennox was starting to improve.
I never know how to look at Lennox's fight with Mercer. Was he impressive for gutting out a tough fight, or unimpressive for struggling so much with Ray ?

Lenox knocks out David Bowee in 1 round, and Riddick Bowe in 8 rounds

Lenox knocks out David Bowee in 1 round, and Riddick Bowe in 8 rounds

Ziggy Stardust Bowie...or Thin White Duke Bowie ?
Two totally different fighters, Naut.

Ziggy Stardust Bowie...or Thin White Duke Bowie ?
Two totally different fighters, Naut.


David Bowee the singer ;)

Riddick Bowe had all the talent in the world and one night against Holyfield he looked great. I have a hard time picking him to beat Lewis at any time. Bowe was lazy and out of shape most of the time. My best guess would be that Lewis would find a home for the right hand and ko Fat Daddy late.

What a fight it would have been back when Bowe first won the title.

With Manny Lewis wins, without him he loses.

I fight I argued about in 93. Bowe lost all his skills going into the Golata fight. The lights and fame made him soft. Bowe always had a better jaw than Lewis. I think he would have connected and KOed Lennox, but we will never know.

Bowe had a 2 fight career. Outside of his two wins against Holyfield he did NOTHING.

Lewis beats him anythime with or without Manny

and trust mne Bowe's people thought Lewis would win also thats they went out of there way to stay as far from Lewis as possible.

Well if McCall could floor Lewis with 1 punch, then a Prime Bowe certainly could. If I recall that is why Bowe didn't want to fight Lewis, there wasn't much to be gained from beating a guy who many felt had a glass chin.

didn't Lewis knock out Bowe WITH headgear on?

didn't Lewis knock out Bowe WITH headgear on?


Meaningless.

Bowe signed the contract to fight lewis in the HBO tournement and pulled out after Lewis destroyed Rudock.

No one felt Lewis had chin problems at the time of that cause that was pre McCall

Meaningless.

so is the fact that Ollie knocked out Lewis.

Whenever Lewis was motivated or in a big fight, he shined.

I think its a great fight, but I go with Lewis.

Meaningless.

Obviously he had Bowe's heart after that so .....?

Here's an interesting article on the subject.


- On October 31, 1992, Lennox Lewis stopped Razor Ruddock in two rounds. Without a doubt, this was the signature win of Lewis' career at the time. From a physical vantage point, it maybe his most impressive win ever. Exactly one week later, November 6, 1992, Riddick Bowe decisioned undisputed heavyweight champ Evander Holyfield to capture the title. This was without a doubt the signature win of Bowe's career. What a great seven days of heavyweight boxing, having four of the top five or six heavyweights in the world fighting each other.

The best thing about the end of that week was, starting November 7, boxing fans were led to believe that we could start looking forward to the Bowe-Lewis clash for the undisputed title. If you remember that was the plan in making those two fights, so the winners could face each other. Going into those two bouts, Holyfield was undefeated and held the true title after making three successful defenses against Foreman, Cooper, and Holmes. Ruddock was coming off two good showings against Tyson, Bowe and Lewis were both undefeated and Tyson was sitting in the Marion County Correctional Institute.

The purported Bowe-Lewis title bout had it all, but unfortunately, a guy named Rock Newman decided that he had other ideas. Newman, Bowe's manager, convinced him to do the Cus D'Amato-Floyd Patterson shuffle. That would be making title defenses against weak opposition to make the most money. I guess that's looking out for the fighter by getting the max dollars for the least risk. However, it really screwed the fans and cheated boxing out of what could have been one of history's super fights between the two best heavyweight champions of all time who stood over 6'4".

Take a second and think back to the year 1974. On January 1 of '74, George Foreman was the undefeated heavyweight champion, Muhammad Ali was the top ranked contender, Joe Frazier was the second, and Ken Norton was the third. At the time, they were without a doubt the top four heavyweights in the world. All boxing needed was a way to shake out who was really the best fighter of the four. Back at that time the best fighters actually wanted to fight each other, imagine that. It meant something to be the champ to all four fighters and none of them took the easy way out.

With all four fighters wanting to prove they were the true champion, it wasn't hard getting them to agree to face each other. So a two-fight mini tournament was held. In the first fight, Ali and Frazier were to meet in a rematch to settle their score. The second fight would see Foreman defending his title against Norton with the winners to face each other to decide who was the undisputed heavyweight champ.

On January 28, 1974, Muhammad Ali evened the score with Joe Frazier and won a 12-round unanimous decision at Madison Square Garden. On March 26, 1974, heavyweight champ George Foreman walked through Ken Norton in two rounds to retain the title in Caracas Venezuela. With Ali and Foreman both winning, the stage was set for them to meet for the undisputed title, and unlike Bowe and Lewis, they fought. On Tuesday night October 30, 1974 in Kinshasa Zaire, Muhammad Ali stopped George Foreman in the eighth round to become the second fighter in history to regain the heavyweight title. The Foreman-Ali fight is no doubt a fight for the ages and one of boxing's most memorable. Think if there was a Rock Newman around then managing Foreman, look what we may have been cheated out of!

If you think about it, that's sort of what Newman did by not following through with the purposed plans that were on the table to make Bowe-Lewis happen. Bowe-Lewis had the makings of a truly great fight. As I said earlier, they are probably the two best heavyweight champions in history who stood over 6'4", and they both could fight! If you're like me, you hate not really knowing who was the better fighter. For every person who says Lewis was better and would have won, you can find another who says Bowe was better and he would have won had they fought at their best. Picking between Bowe and Lewis as to who was really better is quite a task. For every argument, there's a counter argument.

Boxing is the great sport that it is because of the signature fights and rivalries that it has showcased over its long, storied history. Fights like Greb-Tunney, Robinson-LaMotta, Zale-Graziano, Ali-Frazier, Pryor-Arguello and Leonard-Hearns, to name a few. I know, as you read this you're thinking how could he leave out this one or that one, believe me I didn't, but I know you know the inference I'm making.

Riddick Bowe vs. Lennox Lewis had the potential to be mentioned in the same vein as those mentioned above. Think about it, in Bowe and Lewis you had two heavyweights who were around 6'5" who could fight, and were only separated by two years on their birth certificates. They both showed outstanding boxing ability and they both could hit. Heavyweight history has never seen a generation that boasts two heavyweights 6'5" with outstanding skills. Plus, there was a rivalry between them dating back to when they fought for the Gold Medal in the 1988 Olympics.

Without speculating, what do we know about both fighters and their careers? We know that Lewis stopped Bowe in two rounds in the 1988 Olympics to capture the super-heavyweight Gold Medal. However, any objective observer would have to admit that the stoppage was premature, and the referee did a horrible job officiating during the entire bout. On the other hand, I have no doubt that Lewis was on his way to winning the fight regardless of the premature stoppage. Lewis was the more experienced fighter and was competing in the Olympics for the second time. So, lets clear the Olympic fight up once and for all. Lewis was the more experienced amateur, the fight was stopped too quickly, but it didn't change the outcome. Lewis was on his way to winning it anyway.

When they turned pro, both were showered with high praise and were predicted to be can't miss prospects. Bowe received more notoriety, but that's probably because he fought in the States from the start of his career. Lewis fought many of his early bouts in London. They both were moved along at about the same pace and scored some impressive wins along with a few stinkers.

Early into their pro careers, it seemed that Bowe was advancing a little better and faster than Lewis. I remember from about mid 1990 on, Bowe started garnering more attention and most of the boxing magazines and commentators were projecting Bowe to be the better fighter. They felt this way because Bowe appeared to be the more complete fighter and had less perceived holes in his game.

By October of 1992, Bowe and Lewis were approaching the biggest fights of their careers and seemed to be on a collision course. When Lewis devastated Ruddock in two rounds on Halloween night 1992, he appeared to have arrived and at the very least showed he was Bowe's equal or maybe better. The following week, Bowe fought the best fight of his career in taking a 12-round decision over the undefeated, undisputed heavyweight champion Evander Holyfield. With Bowe's performance against a prime Holyfield, he showed that maybe he was all that he was built up to be. However, off Lewis' knockout of Ruddock, Lewis showed that Bowe could not be truly declared the world's best heavyweight without defeating him.

Coming off their signature wins, the boxing public was split as to who would win when they finally met. Some automatically assumed Lewis would win, based on the Olympic win, and some thought Bowe, due to his better progression in the pros. Regardless of what side you came down on, a compelling case could be made to support your opinion.

In my book, it's almost criminal that we never got to see it! Bowe-Lewis is a fight that would have cleared up a lot of confusion and answered many questions. Maybe we would've have gotten to see it two or three times just so the slightest doubts could've been quelled and eliminated. Without a doubt, this is one of the biggest travesties in heavyweight history.

Since we were cheated out of this potential super-fight, what do we have to go on to base an opinion as to who was the better fighter? The way history unfolded, there can be no doubt that when ranking them, Lewis has to be ranked above Bowe in heavyweight history. He had the longer career, beat more quality fighters and participated in 18 world heavyweight title fights, opposed to only four for Bowe. The statistics clearly favor Lewis, but does that mean he was the better fighter and would've defeated Bowe if they fought on their best night?

They were close in height, reach, and weight. These two are so similar and evenly matched, it's almost impossible to give one a decided advantage over the other when breaking down their fighting styles. I guess Lewis has to get the nod when it comes to jab and right hand, and Bowe gets the nod with the left-hook and right-uppercut. Regardless of which fighter you feel gets the nod over the other in certain categories, I think the fighter who has the edge is only by a minuscule margin. The one thing that stands out to me is that Lewis was effective moving to or away from his opponent. Bowe was most effective when he was pushing the fight...

Article continued

...I know that the Holyfield that Bowe beat in their first fight was better than any fighter that Lewis ever fought or defeated was. I also know that Lewis devastated Golota and Golota retired Bowe. Lewis just lasted much longer and has accomplished so much more than Bowe. On the other hand, I can't see Bowe at the top of his game ever losing to McCall or Rahman, let alone getting knocked out by them with one punch.

It's also a fact that Bowe beat a prime Holyfield much more cleanly and decisively than a supposed prime Lewis beat a shot Holyfield, but that doesn't mean Bowe was better. It's also a fact that other than Holyfield, Bowe didn't beat any other top fighter that comes close to some of the top contenders that Lewis beat.

When it comes to assessing Bowe and Lewis, I can draw three solid conclusions. One, I don't know who would've won had they fought in 1993. Two, Lewis without a doubt has to be ranked above Bowe in heavyweight history. Three, boxing is missing a significant page of heavyweight history due to Bowe and Lewis never facing each other.

Writers Note

The short career of Riddick Bowe totally mystifies me. Other than Holyfield and Golota he wasn't in any wars. Actually, he was shot after the third Holyfield fight, a fight in which he was only a couple seconds away from being counted out. Bowe had all the talent and ability in the world, especially for a fighter 6'5". The one thing he didn't have was self-discipline. I believe this had much to do with his early demise. Never have we seen a heavyweight balloon up so much in weight between fights as Bowe. Often it was reported that Bowe was up over 300 lbs after fights.

I believe this was a major factor as to why he eroded so quickly. After ballooning up so high, he would go on starvation diets and cut off his fluid intake to get his weight down. Not only does this weaken a fighter, but also the reduction in fluid around the brain increases the damage from the impact of getting hit. With no fluid around the brain, there's no protection for the brain when it slams into the skull. Multiply this by how many times he was hit during sparring and during the fight. I believe this was the major contributor to his rapid erosion.

When fighters dehydrate themselves, they are playing with fire. Lack of fluid around the brain leads to many problems. Most fighters cut their fluid intake to get down to weight and this is why most of the ring deaths involve fighters below heavyweight. Since heavyweights don't have to make weight, they usually don't deprive themselves from fluids like the lighter weight fighters do who are under tremendous pressure to make weight. This is a serious health issue in boxing and isn't addressed enough. I believe this was a major factor in why Riddick Bowe had such a brief prime.

who wrote that Sonny?

Frank Lotierzo

It was posted over at ********.

Very good analysis I think.

Frank Lotierzo

It was posted over at ********.

Very good analysis I think.

thanks..i thought is was very good as well. Why the hell is it on ******** before BS? Lotierzo is a Boxingscene guy.

Why the hell are you on esb sonny? you bastard!!!

thanks..i thought is was very good as well. Why the hell is it on ******** before BS? Lotierzo is a Boxingscene guy.

Why the hell are you on esb sonny? you bastard!!!

LOL, Do you see how many posts I have?! :eek: I live here.

It's pretty sad really. :o

LOL, Do you see how many posts I have?! :eek: I live here.

It's pretty sad really. :o


did you get a divorce or something? I'm working on mine...or should I say, she's working on it.

Boxingwriters write for pretty much everysite they can. You dont get paid or compenated for writing its just to get your stuff out there.

thats why you pretty much see the same names on all the different boxing sites.

Boxingwriters write for pretty much everysite they can. You dont get paid or compenated for writing its just to get your stuff out there.

thats why you pretty much see the same names on all the different boxing sites.

I know that as much as anyone ;)

some only write for one out of loyalty and they get to cover fights as compensation.

I know that as much as anyone ;)

some only write for one out of loyalty and they get to cover fights as compensation.


thats about the crux of it yip! Unless you are a paid writer for Boxing news or some similar actual money earning mag you get compensated by the best seats in the house.

I write because i want to share my opinions with everyone, if people disagree thats fine. I like to know what other people think aboout things and i like to know what people think about my opinions. Writing is a cool thing to do as a dedicated boxing fan. I absolutely love all aspects of the sport, i'd probably be happy doing any job in boxing just as long as i was contributing to the sport in some way.

As for the Lennox Vs Bowe fight it's always been a tricky matchup to decide the outcome of. Both were tall fighters with plenty of power and could box well. I think if Lennox was going to win this he would have to do it from the outside because fighting on the inside was Bowe's game. Lennox definatly had a better jab than Bowe but as for power i'd say they were both even on a good day. I am a big Lennox fan and i also am a big fan of Bowe and trying to picture them both in their primes fighting is clear but the outcome isn't. I'd say it would be down to who landed that big punch down the line and if i was going to decide who would land it i would probably say Lennox BUT that would be such an pathetic excuse of a guess. Lennox did beat Bowe in the Olympics but in the professional rankings Bowe excelled alot faster than Lennox did and became a champion while Lennox was fighting low level opponents still. I'd say this would maybe go the distance then although with two guys like this it feels stupid saying that too. :confused: I can't make up my mind on this so i'm going with my instinct and saying Lennox but i don't have a complete stable argument to back up my opinion.

Yip without being rude but to clarify Wez, was referring to articles not posts on forums, its hard graft covering shows, you have to be on the ball writing and taking in the action sounds easy but it isnt.

its no good reporting a finishing punch as a left x if it was a right hook, if you get my meaning. A piece lke the york hall would take something like 2-3 hours to re-research & write up.


having said that if its on the tv I put my pad and paper down and video the main events then have a good old shout, thats a perk of the job :cool:


it can be time consuming considering that you spend an evening and half the next day to submit something decent.

Havind said that wez you do have a talent there mate, your posts are always insightful, honest, polite, well written and demonstrate a good understanding of the game, kudos to ya :cool:

Yip without being rude but to clarify Wez, was referring to articles not posts on forums, its hard graft covering shows, you have to be on the ball writing and taking in the action sounds easy but it isnt.

its no good reporting a finishing punch as a left x if it was a right hook, if you get my meaning. A piece lke the york hall would take something like 2-3 hours to re-research & write up.


having said that if its on the tv I put my pad and paper down and video the main events then have a good old shout, thats a perk of the job :cool:


it can be time consuming considering that you spend an evening and half the next day to submit something decent.

Havind said that wez you do have a talent there mate, your posts are always insightful, honest, polite, well written and demonstrate a good understanding of the game, kudos to ya :cool:

Thanks for the nice comments you said. I was refering to my article on the front page of this website, i thought i'd give writing a try.
I bet it is hard covering a fight at an actual venue and getting the detail done to perfection.

oh sorry dude ill go have a read good on ya! :cool:

oh sorry dude ill go have a read good on ya! :cool:

:) No problem, i hope you like it.

good stuff mate, nice opinion piece that.

gotta be good for boxing to get more exposure, well done

good stuff mate, nice opinion piece that.

gotta be good for boxing to get more exposure, well done

:D Thanks alot, it means alot coming from you as you are a fellow writer. I'm learning still and i can spot mistakes i have made but i guess i'll improve in good time.

Mate deserved, yip its all about practice and confidence dude, but that bloody excellent if its your first go! well done, who knows you know, out of small acrons great oaks gorw and all that. :cool:

Mate deserved, yip its all about practice and confidence dude, but that bloody excellent if its your first go! well done, who knows you know, out of small acrons great oaks gorw and all that. :cool:

Thanks, it's something that i am going to continue to do. I really enjoy it to be honest, i could talk about boxing all day long and getting to write articles is perfect. I'm already working on my next project. :D

Good stuff wez, by thew way look out for a new magazine in whsmiths in the UK, Uppercut.

its pretty cool. :cool:

if anyone is interested check this.
http://www.pugilistmedia.com


gives you low down of contents and an idea of what its about.

Good stuff wez, by thew way look out for a new magazine in whsmiths in the UK, Uppercut.

its pretty cool. :cool:

if anyone is interested check this.
http://www.pugilistmedia.com


gives you low down of contents and an idea of what its about.

Cool i'll check into that, i already buy most boxing magazines that come out each month so i guess another won't hurt. :D

Its a monthly feature based mag mate, so its a monthly edtion bringing current and past together .


should be some good stuff I know the editors very well, top lads.
Went to the haye fight with them.

Its a monthly feature based mag mate, so its a monthly edtion bringing current and past together .


should be some good stuff I know the editors very well, top lads.
Went to the haye fight with them.

Hmmm that sounds amazing to be honest, i can never read enough about the past and the present we learn new things each day. It sounds good, i just checked out the website. I like the looks of the article "What If Mike Tyson Fought Sonny Liston". Just by reading that i can tell this magazine will have some interesting good opinions and views.

yip and the writers are top notch. :cool:

yip and the writers are top notch. :cool:

You say you went to the Haye fight with them, did you interview people together? It sounds really promising, i wonder if they will get exclusive interviews for the magazine.

yes they do this month they got Danny on his bout with Vitali within a week of it bieng announced, not bad going.

We went as friends to the Haye fight wasnt "working" that night was lads night out.

yes they do this month they got Danny on his bout with Vitali within a week of it bieng announced, not bad going.

We went as friends to the Haye fight wasnt "working" that night was lads night out.

Cool i look forward to it, i'll make sure i buy it as soon as it comes out. I'll let you know what i think.

good man any constructive criticism welcomed and will be passed on. ;)

Lenox knocks out David Bowee in 1 round

That would have been a great fight. I think it could have gone either way.

Lenox knocks out David Bowee in 1 round
is it a guess or prediction? if lennox is the same before he retire no question about it! but now, you must doubt....but there is chance to outbox bowee :boxing:

Bowe wins in 93
Lewis wins in 96
Lewis wins now
yes thats how i see it, lennox only reached his prime in about 2000, but the bowe that beat holyfield in 1992 would of given any heavyweight big trouble, but that all said lennox might of had bowe's number anyway

Bowe had all the intangibles to b one of the gr8est champs. Excellent hand speed and power for his size, an imposing physique, a good beard...He was just lazy. Lewis for all his skills i dont think had as good a chin as Bowe and that would hav made all the difference

Bowe had all the intangibles to b one of the gr8est champs. Excellent hand speed and power for his size, an imposing physique, a good beard...He was just lazy. Lewis for all his skills i dont think had as good a chin as Bowe and that would hav made all the difference

intangibles and lazy do not go together.

Bowe would have decisioned Lennox when Bowe was in his prime (ie around the time of first holyfield fight), but IMO Lennox at his best had too much of everything for prime Bowe - probably a mid to late KO.

bowe fighted the greatest fight vs evander holyfield. bowe is not as good as many think, holyfield had the right style for him and they two took the best out of eachother. bowe was great in that fight he was in great shape. and back then lewis wasent in his prime he still had a lot to learn so i would say bowe would win if they fight 1993. but bowe 1993 vs prime lewis he would get ko early. infact i think bowe 1993 could beat anyone(great chin,speed,power and jab)

lewis wins easy.... bowe had terrible defense, you couldnt miss him... bowe was a great offensive fighter, but he didnt have a great chin and defense was crap, he was floored by holy and hurt by hide.... he was protected and never fought power punchers(ruddock, morrison, mercer, moorer)... he built his rep on fighting smaller(holy), older(dokes/fergueson) and sorrier men(hide, gonzalez, mathis)... rock newman knew what he had and kept bowe from fighting the dangerous guys...

lewis wins easy.... bowe had terrible defense, you couldnt miss him... bowe was a great offensive fighter, but he didnt have a great chin and defense was crap, he was floored by holy and hurt by hide.... he was protected and never fought power punchers(ruddock, morrison, mercer, moorer)... he built his rep on fighting smaller(holy), older(dokes/fergueson) and sorrier men(hide, gonzalez, mathis)... rock newman knew what he had and kept bowe from fighting the dangerous guys...

we talk about prime bowe vs prime lewis. so you mean smaller holyfield is not dangerous?, explain how holyfield was undisputed chamipon?. after holyfield fight he eat and didnt trained. but bowe when he fight holyfield first fight was inivcible.

but he didnt have a great chin and defense was crap,

He defence was crap but he does have an Iron chin, way better than Lewis's chin. Bowe was never stopped in his whole career, over 40 fights. We have seen Lewis go down on one punch to both Oliver McCall and Rahman, and Bowe hits harder than either of them.

He defence was crap but he does have an Iron chin, way better than Lewis's chin. Bowe was never stopped in his whole career, over 40 fights. We have seen Lewis go down on one punch to both Oliver McCall and Rahman, and Bowe hits harder than either of them.
Tua, Tyson and vitali probably hit harder than rahman,mccall and Bowe but they never put him down!
Lewis took a Bowe combination of 3 flush uppercuts right on the chin in the first rd of their olympic fight and didnt go down! He won the fight.

we talk about prime bowe vs prime lewis. so you mean smaller holyfield is not dangerous?, explain how holyfield was undisputed chamipon?. after holyfield fight he eat and didnt trained. but bowe when he fight holyfield first fight was inivcible.


holy is the only good fighter bowe ever faced and he was much smaller than bowe, but beat bowe once and had bowe out on his feet another time... the only other decent fighter bowe faced was golota and he got ass kicked by him twice...

He defence was crap but he does have an Iron chin, way better than Lewis's chin. Bowe was never stopped in his whole career, over 40 fights. We have seen Lewis go down on one punch to both Oliver McCall and Rahman, and Bowe hits harder than either of them.

lewis doesnt have a great chin, so i agree bowe could KO lewis.... but lewis could KO bowe just as easy too.... when did bowe EVER show a great chin??? when he was hurt hide? when he was put down by holy??? what BIG puncher did bowe ever face?? NONE.... lewis faced HUGE punchers like mercer, moorison, ruddcok, tua, tyson, yet bowe ducked every power puncher on the planet... Bowe was a great OFFENSIVE fighter, shrewdly managed by newman...

holy is the only good fighter bowe ever faced and he was much smaller than bowe, but beat bowe once and had bowe out on his feet another time... the only other decent fighter bowe faced was golota and he got ass kicked by him twice...

he dont need to, he face on of the greatest and knock him down what more can he prove?. after that fight he eat a lot and didnt trained, only reason golota and holy won the second is because bowe was overweight and didnt train.

he dont need to, he face on of the greatest and knock him down what more can he prove?. after that fight he eat a lot and didnt trained, only reason golota and holy won the second is because bowe was overweight and didnt train.

ok so your basing your opinion of bowe on one fight?? that's fine...

i'm looking at bowe's entire career.. this thread is about bowe vs lewis.... bowe faced mostly second rate opposition in his career and ducked not only lewis but every big puncher... lewis is a more complete fighter, harder to hit and i think that bowe is way overrated off his good, but one performance, against a much smaller guy, who fought the wrong fight and then proved it by avenging the loss.....

also bowe was not overweight in his fight with golota, he had hired a physical trainer and was in great shape... here is a link to bowe's weight against holy and golota, both times he weighed 235, so there goes that excuse

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000499

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=004345

ok so your basing your opinion of bowe on one fight?? that's fine...

i'm looking at bowe's entire career.. this thread is about bowe vs lewis.... bowe faced mostly second rate opposition in his career and ducked not only lewis but every big puncher... lewis is a more complete fighter, harder to hit and i think that bowe is way overrated off his good, but one performance, against a much smaller guy, who fought the wrong fight and then proved it by avenging the loss.....

no i am basing on how he fight that fight against holyfield he had stamina to be the greatest no doubt. but he didnt had heart and discipline to do so. btw what do do you mean smaller guy?, holyfield is not small, he weight low but he is from body up as big as bowe. size doesnt matter and holyfield even if he smaller he is not a bad boxer infact one of the greatest of all time.

bowe had significant height and reach advantages on holy.... also, holy is not a big puncher, but had bowe out on his feet...

bowe looked great against holy, but lewis is an entirely different fighter... lewis wont rumble with bowe on the inside like holy did in that one fight... i dont know if stamina is one of bowe's weaknesses, but i'd say that his crappy defense is...

and the "lack of heart and discipline" excuse is weak, i've already proved that he was in shape when he was getting his ass handed to him

Bowe whips any version of lewis . Bowe beat prime holyfield, lewis nearly lost to an old well past his prime holyfield . So therefore logic tells me that prime bowe whips prime lewis , throw in lewis chin and lewis lasts about 3 rounds at most .

funny how people say holy was old and past his prime when he fought lewis, but holy was the favorite going into the fight and had just beaten tyson twice and KO'd moorer.... not to mention lewis was 34 when they fought, so he wasnt a spring chicken either...

funny how people say holy was old and past his prime when he fought lewis, but holy was the favorite going into the fight and had just beaten tyson twice and KO'd moorer.... not to mention lewis was 34 when they fought, so he wasnt a spring chicken either...


Holy's skills were clearly diminished. He was coming off those nice wins but he was definitely on the downside of his career. Lennox was entering his second prime at that point IMO.

I think, if I can only look at 1 version of Lewis and 1 version of Bowe...that Bowe would beat Lewis in a close fight. That's basing it off the Bowe that fought and beat Holy and the Lewis that fought and punished Tyson/Rahman. I can definitely see Lewis beating Bowe too however because we only got to see Bowes best for 1 fight. Still, IMO Bowes best form was better than Lewis' best form.

i disgree cause its basing bowe on one night against holy, when holy was fighting the wrong fight.... bowe never showed that again in his entire career, cause you cant count all the bums he fought....

also about holy and lewis, i agree holy wasn't in his prime, but he wasn't an old dinosaur, like some people are trying to say.... holy was the favorite to win and he just beaten two multi-time world champions.. he looked just as good beating tyson and moorer then at any time in his career....

Holy's skills were clearly diminished. He was coming off those nice wins but he was definitely on the downside of his career. Lennox was entering his second prime at that point IMO.

I think, if I can only look at 1 version of Lewis and 1 version of Bowe...that Bowe would beat Lewis in a close fight. That's basing it off the Bowe that fought and beat Holy and the Lewis that fought and punished Tyson/Rahman. I can definitely see Lewis beating Bowe too however because we only got to see Bowes best for 1 fight. Still, IMO Bowes best form was better than Lewis' best form.

i cant say it better, a prime bowe surely beat a prime lewis, prime bowe would beat prime lewis 2/3times. and holyfield first fight vs lewis he wasent old, lewis just got his number. lewis is definitly one of the greatest.


and the "lack of heart and discipline" excuse is weak, i've already proved that he was in shape when he was getting his ass handed to him

bowe went up a lot after the fight and went down before the fight, it effect his stamina because of weight lost, its like roy jones vs tarver he went down from heavyweight to light heavy weight and jones got ko.

Something to think about. Had Lewis went through three wars with Evander Holyfield like Bowe did, He might have been slurring his words like Big Daddy Bowe some ten years later. Although i respect what Lewis did, I don't think he had the heart that Bowe showed against not only Holy but Golata as well. Of course Lewis will go down in history higher than bowe, but i think it is due more to his better training ethic and overall common sense, more than it has to due with his natural ability. Bowe had alot of natural talent, just wasted the **** out of it. Of course that's not to uncommon of a story in boxing is it?

Lewis on all counts

too much class IMO

I think Lewis had more dedication and would of out gutted Bowe, even in thier primes.

bowes wife would beat lewis

Lewis would have won at any point in time, simply because he was in Bowe's head, and Bowe was afraid of him.

Maybe it had to do with Lewis stopping Bowe in the Olympics, or maybe Bowe always was a bit flakey.

Either way, he was genuinly afraid of Lewis.

After the first Bowe Holyfield fight (Lewis did commentary) Lewis confronted Bowe after the fight, and told him several times right to his face that he was going to knock him out again. Bowe said to Lewis and to the camera that he wanted revenge, and that he'd fight Lewis next.

Not only did he go back on that, he later literally gave up his belt rather than face Lewis.

For whatever reason, Lewis had a mental edge over Bowe, and that would have translated into a bad loss for Bowe no matter where or when they fought.

You have never seen either of Bowe's Fights with Golota. He took so many hard flush punches to the head. Went down twice. He was still fighting back in the 9th round. Lou Duva was shocked at how much punishment Bowe was able to take particularly in the second fight. IN the post the interview he was telling Bowe to immediately go to the hospital to get his head checked out. It was one of the most brutal beatings ever. Bowe was still throwing overhand right bombs in the 9th round. He really wanted to win that fight. He trained his ass off and weiged in at 235 pounds. The second fight with Golota just ruined Bowe. Some people Say Lou Duva is an overrated trainer well Bowe was trained by Eddie Futch. The guy who trained Frazier and alot of other champions and he must have given Bowe the wrong instructions on how to fight Golota because he got beat so bad in that fight to the head.

That was a really good fight. Both guys were down. Low Blows, hitting in the back of the head. But after the 5th round it was just such a brutal one sided beating and Golota especially back then is a big HARD HITTING heavyweight and Bowe took so many flush punches of every kind in that fight. Just the right hook to he took behind the ear in the second round that dropped him should have been enough to KO him. Bowe's corner were gonna throw in the towel in teh 7th round because he was just getting beat so bad. George Foreman said if they stopped the fight they would be correct in doing so. Maybe if they did stop the fight Bowe would not have the braindamage he does.

After that fight Bowe retired and became a total psycho joined the Marine Corps for like 2 weeks got arrested for kidnapping his family at gunpoint, went to prison etc.....

People were so impressed by Golota fight with Bowe. He was the bettng favorite to beat Lewis when they fought shortly after. I still swear some wierd **** went down in the Golota Lewis fight with the lidocaine and everything. The odds on a Lewis first round KO were probably like 45-1.


i saw both fights with bowe/golota... which affirms my theory that bowe was overrated, had terrible defense, poor stamina and a shaky chin... golota is not a huge puncher, he's a good one but not a huge one... bowe was hurt by golota, holy and hide... he avoided big KO punchers like moorer, ruddock, morrison, lewis, tua, mercer, mccall, etc... lewis would have KO'd bowe...

Here's Lewis stopping Bowe in the 98 Olympics for those who haven't seen it:

<img src=http://www.boxingscene.com/media/data/513/20305Lewis_TKO_Bowe_Olympics.gif>

bowe couldt beet lewis no way

Bowe had a 2 fight career. Outside of his two wins against Holyfield he did NOTHING.

Lewis beats him anythime with or without Manny

and trust mne Bowe's people thought Lewis would win also thats they went out of there way to stay as far from Lewis as possible.

I agree. I show Bowe very little love because he had all the tools and didn't use them. Lewis would have ripped it up whether you're British or American, accept the truth. Lewis would have completely destroyed him, which is why Bowe canned the belt.

would have been a good fight I think, to big, strong athletic guys who punch hard, box well, and have great left jabs. Bowe was better on the inside, Lennox had a better right hand from the outside, Lennox was more composed. I think people look to closely at the amateur bout they had, I've watched it, and neither man looked anything like the pro versions of themselves, and it was a typical amateur stoppage...it's not like Bowe got blown away like some people (who prob. haven't even seen the fight) say.

I don't know who'd win, I mean damn Bowe was one tough cookie when he was on top...threw lots of combinations, fought pretty aggressively, took a punch well. Lennox fought at a more relaxed pace, relied on his accuracy, jab, and straight punches...who knows. Woulda made for a good fight though.

would have been a good fight I think, to big, strong athletic guys who punch hard, box well, and have great left jabs. Bowe was better on the inside, Lennox had a better right hand from the outside, Lennox was more composed. I think people look to closely at the amateur bout they had, I've watched it, and neither man looked anything like the pro versions of themselves, and it was a typical amateur stoppage...it's not like Bowe got blown away like some people (who prob. haven't even seen the fight) say.

I don't know who'd win, I mean damn Bowe was one tough cookie when he was on top...threw lots of combinations, fought pretty aggressively, took a punch well. Lennox fought at a more relaxed pace, relied on his accuracy, jab, and straight punches...who knows. Woulda made for a good fight though.

Iu think Bowe by late stoppage or KO because Lennox had been KO'ed before and after they were gonna fight. Bowe had been hit with some good shots from Holyfield and still kept fight, and even later by getting his ass whooped by Golota, but kept on fighting.

Bowe and the trash can = Riddick remembered the beating he got at the Olympics.

Lennox anyday you couldnt bully him and Bowe had a good chin but Lennox had that right hand, body attack and brutal uppercut with either hand.

Lennox's worst enemy was himself, he got ko'd because he didn't take the fighters seriously enough, he left himself open and got caught with a peach against McCall that would have knocked most HWs over. The first Raham fight he turned up wieghing much more than usual, suggesting that he didn't prepare. Against the fighters he perceived to be more dangerous he didn't make those kind of mistakes.

If you want an example of a waste of true talent in boxing, you need not look further than Bowe, he had all the tools. However, I still favour Lewis, a) on the basis that he would have known the dangers of an equal and stayed focused and b) he obviously had the power to ko Bowe in the Amatuers. I would say peak v peak 65:35 in favour of Lewis, factoring in Lewis making mistakes and leaving his chin exposed.

The real shame is that as boxing fans, we were robbed of a potential Ali Frazer rivalry and a three match rubber between them, for the reasons other posters have already explained much better than I could

Sounds about right.
'96 would have been a real "crossroads" fight. Bowe took a turn for the worse, & Lennox was starting to improve.
I never know how to look at Lennox's fight with Mercer. Was he impressive for gutting out a tough fight, or unimpressive for struggling so much with Ray ?

For certain unimpressive for struggling against Mercer, a 42 year old Larry Holmes had an easy time with Mercer, and journeyman fighters like Marion Willson, Jesse Ferguson, out boxed Mercer as well. And what was surprising was that Mercer was actually giving Lewis a lot of trouble with his jab. And lets remember how short Mercer's reach was and how short in height he was for an Heavyweight as well.

Bowe and the trash can = Riddick remembered the beating he got at the Olympics.

Lennox anyday you couldnt bully him and Bowe had a good chin but Lennox had that right hand, body attack and brutal uppercut with either hand.

Bowe never got a beating at the Olympics, he actually won the 1st round and staggered Lewis. Bowe was caught by 1 big shot but raised his hands in the air showing we was ok but the ref stopped the fight, the Amateurs and Pros are totally different, Henry Tillman beat Tyson twice in the amateurs, but when they met as pro's Tyson demolished Tillman in about 2 minutes.

Bowe was clearly afraid of Lewis and wanted no part of him. With that mentality you can't win a fight. Even if he wasn't scared, Lewis was the better fighter.