View Full Version : Phanton Punch


gogan
12-14-2004, 10:53 AM
Whats the whole story behind Ali`s phantom punch, was ali able to KO sonny liston in the 1st min of the 1st round. some say he trhough the bout because the mafia was going to kill him. but if your going to through a fight wouldn`t you throw it in a later round, not in the 1st min of the 1 round. anyone have any information on this

LittleBigMan
01-17-2005, 11:23 PM
It Was A Phantom Punch

jabsRstiff
01-18-2005, 07:35 AM
It was a real punch....quick enough, sharp enough, to surprise & slightly stun Liston.

But, it certainly didn't look hard enough to KEEP him down.

Liston looked like he put on quite the performance.

M26
01-18-2005, 08:33 AM
It was no real knock out, thats for sure. Liston did not want to fight anymore. I am not sure why.

adeelr
01-19-2005, 10:24 PM
Man you never know, Ali did connect flush on the jaw, but Liston was scared he was done, Ali took every thing away from him in the first fight so, it was no use comming back any ways the punch will remain a mystery but Ali himself believes that he hit liston very hard...he says so in the documentary "when we were kings".

Bombardier
01-28-2005, 12:13 PM
There were also rumours that the Nation of Islam threatened Liston and that's why we stayed down. Hard to say whether or nto this is true...they were a pretty aggressive group back then, but it's hard to tell what is true and what was just hysteria created by a media that disliked them.

Liston was a headcase, and might have just given up in the ring for his own reasons.

barryboy
01-28-2005, 02:18 PM
I think Liston was managed by mob guys so he could have been told to lay down and his efforts to get up didn't look very convincing though he could have just said screw this and decided on his own to give up but he took his lumps in later fights without quiting so i'd say someone told him to throw the fight.

Champoreeno
01-28-2005, 03:35 PM
I think Liston was managed by mob guys so he could have been told to lay down and his efforts to get up didn't look very convincing though he could have just said screw this and decided on his own to give up but he took his lumps in later fights without quiting so i'd say someone told him to throw the fight.

That's about what I'd say happened as well. To elaborate on the 'lumps' he took in later fights, those knock downs looked legit, where the Ali fall was poorly acted.

barryboy
01-28-2005, 03:48 PM
It was the Leotis Martin fight I was thinking about, he took a bit of a beating towards the end of that fight, his face was a mess but there was no question about the knockdown in that fight, he took a good deal of punishment before that plus he was a few years older than he was against Ali so it all looks very dodgy to me.

xrhythmxnxbluesx
01-28-2005, 04:44 PM
he did hit him... it was a quick one but he did... this like hokins body shot to de la hoya... it look like it was nothing but he said he got him at the right spot... maybe it was the same with linston...

Champoreeno
01-28-2005, 05:01 PM
he did hit him... it was a quick one but he did... this like hokins body shot to de la hoya... it look like it was nothing but he said he got him at the right spot... maybe it was the same with linston...

I wouldn't argue that that was a real punch and it certainly did land. But your comparing apples and oranges. An Ali straight right in the opening seconds of a fight against a guy with a proven and solid chin is far more innocuous than a Hopkins hook to the body against a smaller opponent in the 9th round...

spinksjinx
01-28-2005, 07:14 PM
They always say it is the punch you dont see that puts you out. That punch was lightning fast and connected nicely as fast as it was it had to pack some power. The knockdown was legitimate but the knockout wasnt in my book.

marvdave
01-28-2005, 07:51 PM
the punch landed for sure, but for whatever reason, Liston quit. Not enough to knock him out.

jayrichardse
01-30-2005, 06:45 PM
huge punch

shortright
08-03-2005, 10:40 PM
thrown fight he threw himself down

Foreman
08-03-2005, 11:07 PM
Watch the black and white version of the fight. You can clearly see when the punch lands and how Listons head moves and how the muscles and skin in his back and neck ripple. Clearly a hard PERFECTLY placed punch.

As for Listons "acting". I've seen some strange knockdowns before. Look at Hagler-Hearns. It was more of a slapping punch but Hearns started to do a little jig and was all over the ring. Trevor Berbick looked ridiculous when he went down against Tyson. There are lots of other examples of strange looking behavior by a fighter when he's had his bell rung. Liston's shady connections as well as Ali's shady connections all add to the story. Really, if the fight was between two guys you never heard of would it look suspicious? Probably not.

Ray Mercer had a granite chin and took some huge bombs over his career. Who was the first to knock him down? A relatively light hitting Holyfield. Riddick Bowe looked great in his trilogy with Holy. Overnight Golota made him look less than average by smashing him from pillar to post. It happens sometimes.

phil" the hitman "manny
08-04-2005, 04:59 AM
Liston knew he couldnt get near Ali after 1st fight the punch definately connected,good enough to knock him out?

Dempsey 1919
10-25-2005, 05:46 PM
Ali himself knew he didn't really knocked him out. Didn't anyone see the footage of him telling Liston "get up you bum, no body is gonna believe this". I am sure it knocked him down. It connected flush, and liston's head spinned. Also Ali leaned down into that punch. You get more power coming down. Also Liston moved towards Ali's punch which made the punch more powerful.