I always hear about how fighters think they can get inside of Vitaly and break him down, but what people don't realize is that Vitaly has a fantastic jab and he makes his living keeping smaller (which is just about everybody) fighters away from him.

Now looking back throughout history, who could have got inside him?

Joe Louis got inside Carnera and broke him down, but Carnera did not have a huge jab. Note: I may have the names down, but whoever got inside Carnera and beat him to a pulp is who I am talking about.

Joe Frazier always tried to get inside and rake your body, but when he tried that against Foreman, Forman killed him.

Mike Tyson was probably the best at getting inside he was able to beat many taller guys in his youth. Unfortunately, by the time he got to Lewis, he was shot and Lewis was able to keep him away with the jab.

Today, there are not a lot of heavyweight that have great body attacks. Perhaps Toney, but Toney is going to be giving away about 11 inches of height, and about 30 pounds.

The heavyweight that beats Vitaly will have to be used to being the smaller guy even though he is 6'4 240, and he has to be quick enough to slip the jab and get inside. Buy guys that big are used to throwing bombs and by the time they fight Vitaly will be stuck in their ways.

When Vitaly fights caustiously at a distance, there is nobody right now, or even ever, that can get inside and beat him. But that is what everbody's strategy is. Why is that?

If I was creating a fighter to beat Vitaly, I would mold him into a Larry Donald type who has very good reflexes and can pot shot Vitaly, the same way Jones did to Ruiz and win a 12 round fight without a lot of action. Note: This does not mean that I think Larry Donald will beat Vitaly.

When Vitaly loses, I think it will be when he gets caught while trading. There were moments that I though he could (not would) get knocked out against Sanders, and it think situaations like that can result in a knockout loss.

So how do you beat Vitaly?

Well, you would be right, except that Vitali's jab sucks. It's slow, has litte snap, and he doesn't bring it back fast enough. I would say Carnera and Klitschko had equal jabs. Klitschko has a nice straight hand, but he leaves himself wide open after he throws it.

To get inside Klitschko, you would have to double up on the jab, then throw a few hooks to the body, constantly moving your upper body, using foot movement (things Danny Williams just did not do), for the first 4-5 rounds. Then head to inside on the tired guy and just throw the shorter shots on the inside that Klitschko wouldn't be able to counter b/c he's so tall and his arms are so long . . . it would take stamina and a good chin to be successful b/c Klitschko will hit you with some right hands as you come in, but with a guy who's fast he wouldn't land too often . . .Klitschko has found success recently vs guys with very limited gameplans and no fight discipline (Williams just went in there trying to brawl and didn't take his time and try to box a little), plus his last 3 opponents have been grotesqly overweight. . . .
An inshape Toney would embarass Klitshko. Rahman has a small chance, and Byrd might pull a decision. After watching last Sat.'s fight, I was not impressed at all. Danny Williams made David Izon look like Ray Robinson . . .

"Getting inside of Vitali"???????

What kinda gay ****ographic topic is this? GOod god ya'll.

"Getting inside of Vitali"???????

What kinda gay ****ographic topic is this? GOod god ya'll.


Lol...........

Big George would destroy Vitali. In his prime he was master at cutting off the ring. In his autobiography The Greatest, Muhamad Ali recalls that his original game plan was to box Foreman from distance but when he realized how good George was at cutting off the ring, he came up with the rope-a-dope plan. IMO that is real testament to Ali's greatness.

Larry Holmes in his prime would out jab Vitali and totally throw him off his game.

rock beats vitali just watch.......

[QUOTE=dempseyfire]Well, you would be right, except that Vitali's jab sucks. It's slow, has litte snap, and he doesn't bring it back fast enough.


Apparently, that's been plenty good enough to put down every single fighter that he has beaten, except one. Looks like that jab works just fine.

Is this a Neuraxis sex fantasy thread?

I don't think any of the smallish heavys will do well against VK..including Toney. He is to big and too active for those guys. I think it will eventually be a big heavy with a big right hand that will get to him. He keeps that left down dangerously. If Rahman is in shape, I would give him a decent chance to pull the upset.

"Getting inside of Vitali"???????

What kinda gay ****ographic topic is this? GOod god ya'll.

I saw that after I posted it, and thought that.

Then I remembered all the naked pictures of the Klitsckos hugging looking all ripped....

Then I felt better....

I don't think any of the smallish heavys will do well against VK..including Toney. He is to big and too active for those guys. I think it will eventually be a big heavy with a big right hand that will get to him. He keeps that left down dangerously. If Rahman is in shape, I would give him a decent chance to pull the upset.

That is what I was talking about when I said that it will take a fighter that is 6'4 240 acting like a small fighter to get to VK.

Toney just gives up too much height, and when VK blows him out, the haters would just say that VK beat up on some little blown up middleweight.

That is what I was talking about when I said that it will take a fighter that is 6'4 240 acting like a small fighter to get to VK.

Toney just gives up too much height, and when VK blows him out, the haters would just say that VK beat up on some little blown up middleweight.

i'm not a "hater" or a "nuthugger", I'm just happy we have a Heavyweight with a little skill and charisma. We need some excitement in the division,and he brings some.

the thought of a Byrd vs Ruiz fight gives me a migrane, but VK against either one sounds good to me. :cool:

Is this a Neuraxis sex fantasy thread?


lol that is what i was thinking

i think joe frazier would destroy him, he got through the best jab in heavyweight history (ali). also in sparring he broke larry holmes' ribs getting passed his jab. theres no way to keep the man out! unless you ahve foremans uppercut LOL

rock beats vitali just watch.......
I agree, Rock and/or Byrd would school Vitali if he fights them in '05, here's my new top 10 list after last Saturday's showdown:

1. Chris Byrd (finally touchable, but still the illest out there)
2. James Toney (untouchable, brought power up to heavyweight)
3. John Ruiz (keeps winning)
4. Hasim Rahman (always 1 punch away from victory)
5. Vitali Klitschko (3 fights in a row vs. outta-shapers)
6. Lamon Brewster (big lazy counter-puncher)
7. Vladimir Klitschko (bigger, softer headhunter)
8. Danny Williams (loveable punching bag)
9. Andrew Golota (still a danger to anybody)
10. Jameel McCline (see #6)

I agree, Rock and/or Byrd would school Vitali if he fights them in '05, here's my new top 10 list after last Saturday's showdown:

1. Chris Byrd (finally touchable, but still the illest out there)
2. James Toney (untouchable, brought power up to heavyweight)
3. John Ruiz (keeps winning)
4. Hasim Rahman (always 1 punch away from victory)
5. Vitali Klitschko (3 fights in a row vs. outta-shapers)
6. Lamon Brewster (big lazy counter-puncher)
7. Vladimir Klitschko (bigger, softer headhunter)
8. Danny Williams (loveable punching bag)
9. Andrew Golota (still a danger to anybody)
10. Jameel McCline (see #6)

6-10 is just ridiculous.

i think joe frazier would destroy him, he got through the best jab in heavyweight history (ali). also in sparring he broke larry holmes' ribs getting passed his jab. theres no way to keep the man out! unless you ahve foremans uppercut LOL

Watching the Joe Frazier fights of the 60s and 70s one would think that.

I am not sure how big Frazier was, but I would bet that he was about 5'11 or 6'. He also weighed about 210, but with the nutrition of today he could get up to 220-230 without much of a problem.

The question is, how many shots would he have to take to keep raking VK to the body.

The Foreman fights were a little indicative of what would happen. frazier would be caught coming in.

i'm not a "hater" or a "nuthugger", I'm just happy we have a Heavyweight with a little skill and charisma. We need some excitement in the division,and he brings some.

the thought of a Byrd vs Ruiz fight gives me a migrane, but VK against either one sounds good to me. :cool:

I wasn't calling you a hater, I was agreeing with you.

I wasn't calling you a hater, I was agree with you.

I wasn't saying you did..my apologies for not making that clear..you the man! :cool:

Watching the Joe Frazier fights of the 60s and 70s one would think that.

I am not sure how big Frazier was, but I would bet that he was about 5'11 or 6'. He also weighed about 210, but with the nutrition of today he could get up to 220-230 without much of a problem.

The question is, how many shots would he have to take to keep raking VK to the body.

The Foreman fights were a little indicative of what would happen. frazier would be caught coming in.

Now I am thinking that I might be biased because the only fights that I have seen Frazier in were against Ali and Foreman.

Has Frazier had anything to say on this subject lately?

Well, you would be right, except that Vitali's jab sucks. It's slow, has litte snap, and he doesn't bring it back fast enough. I would say Carnera and Klitschko had equal jabs. Klitschko has a nice straight hand, but he leaves himself wide open after he throws it.

To get inside Klitschko, you would have to double up on the jab, then throw a few hooks to the body, constantly moving your upper body, using foot movement (things Danny Williams just did not do), for the first 4-5 rounds. Then head to inside on the tired guy and just throw the shorter shots on the inside that Klitschko wouldn't be able to counter b/c he's so tall and his arms are so long . . . it would take stamina and a good chin to be successful b/c Klitschko will hit you with some right hands as you come in, but with a guy who's fast he wouldn't land too often . . .Klitschko has found success recently vs guys with very limited gameplans and no fight discipline (Williams just went in there trying to brawl and didn't take his time and try to box a little), plus his last 3 opponents have been grotesqly overweight. . . .
An inshape Toney would embarass Klitshko. Rahman has a small chance, and Byrd might pull a decision. After watching last Sat.'s fight, I was not impressed at all. Danny Williams made David Izon look like Ray Robinson . . .



In shape Toney embarras Vitali? lol lol lol That's the funniest ****ing thing I have ever heard on this forum. You are aware that Vitali fought Byrd and dominated him until an injury aren't you? And that was a better Byrd back then and Vitali is much improved. The last paragraph of this post is the biggest bunch of nonsene I have ever witnessed on this site by far. I will admit that it all gave me a good belly laugh. Thanks, I had a hard day and needed a good laugh!! :)

I agree, Rock and/or Byrd would school Vitali if he fights them in '05, here's my new top 10 list after last Saturday's showdown:

1. Chris Byrd (finally touchable, but still the illest out there)
2. James Toney (untouchable, brought power up to heavyweight)
3. John Ruiz (keeps winning)
4. Hasim Rahman (always 1 punch away from victory)
5. Vitali Klitschko (3 fights in a row vs. outta-shapers)
6. Lamon Brewster (big lazy counter-puncher)
7. Vladimir Klitschko (bigger, softer headhunter)
8. Danny Williams (loveable punching bag)
9. Andrew Golota (still a danger to anybody)
10. Jameel McCline (see #6)



LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OLOOLOL

wow, I didn't know this was a comedy thread..
and I don't even have a joke to tell... sorry..

obviously haters :D
but we all pick and choose our favorites I suppose..

I think what people are neglecting to discuss is that we don't know how much power it takes to put down VK. It would have to be someone with more power than LL and more power than Sanders. Otherwise they're hoping to win on a decision, which could be possible.

the old roy jones would have beaten VK via decision

6-10 is just ridiculous.

As is 1-5.

the old roy jones would have beaten VK via decision

Go sit in the corner.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OLOOLOL

wow, I didn't know this was a comedy thread..
and I don't even have a joke to tell... sorry..

obviously haters :D
but we all pick and choose our favorites I suppose..

I think what people are neglecting to discuss is that we don't know how much power it takes to put down VK. It would have to be someone with more power than LL and more power than Sanders. Otherwise they're hoping to win on a decision, which could be possible.
Right on! Look, there's no disputing that Toney and Byrd have far superior skills to VK, but it's NOT ENOUGH! The man is huge!!

They guy took some very heavy shots from two of the heaviest hitters of perhaps all time (LL and Sanders), and never went down - there's no way Toney or Byrd could hurt him, even if they did manage to get "inside of him". ;)

Big difference is . .Foreman was a much bigger puncher then Klitschko, and had much quicker hands, and notably a MUCH better uppercut. Frazier would be way too fast for Vitali, and his work-rate would get Vitali exhausted by the 3rd round . . .
Bonavena hit harder then Klitschko and Frazier steamrolled him . . .Mathis was also a huge HW with a good punch and Frazier steamrolled him. Size is not the issue. Klitschko has actually been outweighed in 3 of his last 4 fights. Its conditioning and proper boxing technique. Danny Williams would've given himself a greater chance if he'd weighed in a good 40-50 lbs less then he did, but even with that the man displayed a horrible defense and an awful fight plan . . .

:confused: Corrie Sanders is now one of the hardest hitting HWs of all time!??! LOL. How did he achieve this? By knocking out Wlad Klitschko? . . .Hasim Rahman took his best shots more then a few times in their fight and kept coming, but was put on queer street by Masgaev, Tua and Lewis and hurt by Ruiz.

impossible hes tooo big

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i want to see rahman vs vitali

Dempsey fire, just of curiosity how many Corrie Sanders fights have you actually watched? Did you know that he repeatedly had his gloves checked after a fight( as an amateur) to make sure they werent loaded? Rahman took his punches yes but he also said that Sanders is the hardest hitter hes ever faced? Also you mentioned was hurt by Maskaev, Lewis, and Tua. Would you also say they arent hard hitters? And does that also mean just because Danny Williams was put down by Sinan Samil Sam does that mean he is a heavier hitter than Tyson? Not trying for an argument just curious

tdddddddddddd

http://www.nicksildesigns.com/forumpics/BanHim.jpg

How do you beat Vitaliy?

Vitaliy is a league above anyone in the HW division.


One can have a "win" over Vitaliy on cuts and injures, but there is no way any of the current and recent champs can beat Vitaliy.

Lennox strategy of "beating" Vitaliy:

open a cut with a duck tape and then work the cut

Watching the Joe Frazier fights of the 60s and 70s one would think that.

I am not sure how big Frazier was, but I would bet that he was about 5'11 or 6'. He also weighed about 210, but with the nutrition of today he could get up to 220-230 without much of a problem.

The question is, how many shots would he have to take to keep raking VK to the body.

The Foreman fights were a little indicative of what would happen. frazier would be caught coming in.


the question to me is how many shots could vitali take once frazier did the inevitable and got right past his jab or whatever he was throwing out. arguably the best bob and weave in history, he constantly fought bigger fighters none could keep him out. he just destoyed solid big men for fun. vitali is NOT big george, theres nothing similar in what they do so i have no clue why you think vitali could do the same to frazier ?? how are they similar? just wondering

Big difference is . .Foreman was a much bigger puncher then Klitschko, and had much quicker hands, and notably a MUCH better uppercut. Frazier would be way too fast for Vitali, and his work-rate would get Vitali exhausted by the 3rd round . . .
Bonavena hit harder then Klitschko and Frazier steamrolled him . . .Mathis was also a huge HW with a good punch and Frazier steamrolled him. Size is not the issue. Klitschko has actually been outweighed in 3 of his last 4 fights. Its conditioning and proper boxing technique. Danny Williams would've given himself a greater chance if he'd weighed in a good 40-50 lbs less then he did, but even with that the man displayed a horrible defense and an awful fight plan . . .

:confused: Corrie Sanders is now one of the hardest hitting HWs of all time!??! LOL. How did he achieve this? By knocking out Wlad Klitschko? . . .Hasim Rahman took his best shots more then a few times in their fight and kept coming, but was put on queer street by Masgaev, Tua and Lewis and hurt by Ruiz.

i didnt see this post because of that clown who spammed up the thread, anyway this is exactly what my train of thought is. frazier was just an animal in the ring, he was constantly pressuring, bobbing and weaving and destorying bigger men for 15 rounds. his conditioning was incredible. the pace he would set there is no way vitali could keep up. even if danny williams was in better shape vitali would still destory him. hes a bum. all he has is a big punch but hes wobbled anytime hes hit with solid punches. he has almost zero head movement and a pathetic jab, giving him absolutely no chance to get in on vitali no matter what kind of shape hes in

Why the fcuk did that guy make three pages of posts about nothing.

Can we get Rick to make sure that he doesn't download crap off the other forum.

How good is Vitaly's jab at keeping off smaller fighters compared to Foreman and Lennox Lewis?

There are other tall heavyweights that I don't think could keep Frazier away, like Akawande and Grant, but Vitaly has been jabbing while backing up so well lately, that I can't see how a guy that small 5'11 210 can pressure Vitally all night. I think Frazier would have his moments, but enough to win the fight? It is doubtful.

In 2005, we may see Toney take a shot at it. Toney may very well be the pound 4 pound best heavyweight, but but Toney needs to have more height if he is really going to have a shot at breaking down Vitaly. And lifting a huge amount of weights to get to 225 is not going to cut it. Also, if Toney shows up at more than 230, the VK haters are going to have a feild day with the "If Toney wasn't such a fatsas" threads.

Is there anybody here that was around when Frazier was fighting that can shed some light onto this subject.

Frazier, Ali, Foreman, Louis...
they can all say that they'd whoop VK... and I'm sure that's what they tell their buddies at the Barber Shop. They'd HAVE to to save face. White fighters aren't supposed to be HW champs.
Most of them Probably COULD beat VK, I'm not arguing that.

one funny thing to note:
for those that remember.. when VK fought LL.. George Foreman was commentating... he said "if Vitali wins, I'm coming back to boxing" :)

well VK didn't win, but then after he did, COME BACK GEORGE..
na, I don't want to see him get hurt. Just like LL, they have made their mark in History, why push it?