View Full Version : need to gain 20 lbs, quick


josh-hill
11-08-2010, 02:18 PM
i know this cant be done overnight so when i say quick i meen over a matter of months. but as quick as possible. i know this is a boxing forum so people might not be experts at bodybuilding but i keep seeing threads where people say ' i keep gaining too much muscle' so you guys must be on to something :D

also i am doing this for my boxing (yes i know that muscle dosent make you a better puncher, that is a discussion for another thread) so i train at my boxing gym twice a week too, how am i best fiting it round that? thanks

them_apples
11-08-2010, 03:00 PM
i know this cant be done overnight so when i say quick i meen over a matter of months. but as quick as possible. i know this is a boxing forum so people might not be experts at bodybuilding but i keep seeing threads where people say ' i keep gaining too much muscle' so you guys must be on to something :D

also i am doing this for my boxing (yes i know that muscle dosent make you a better puncher, that is a discussion for another thread) so i train at my boxing gym twice a week too, how am i best fiting it round that? thanks

putting on 20 lbs will fuk up your boxing. there is a reason you are the weight you are

GoogleMe
11-08-2010, 03:05 PM
putting on 20 lbs will fuk up your boxing. there is a reason you are the weight you are
Let him gain what he wants ;-)
I like being a small guy in my weightclass. I hate those fast middleweights (but I'm one). I'm a fast lightheavy now, and I've always been a very strong puncher, so I actually dominate most my opponents.
Weight are good. It makes your stronger.

BrooklynBomber
11-08-2010, 03:06 PM
20 pounds? Easy.

You need this
http://www.meike-fitness.com/image/BARBELL%20SET/WBS-3004%20BARBELL%20SET.jpg.jpg

and lots of this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Burger_King_Whopper_Combo.jpg

josh-hill
11-08-2010, 03:08 PM
yeah that reason is that for 16 years i sat in front of the tv doing **** all :D ive only been boxing a month or two so its not like i reached my maximum potential. one problem i am having is that i have so little fat i have a low metabolism so i cant loose fat verry easily. and in the long term i am only going to gain 10 lbs, but i will loose alot of fat too. i am currently at 70kg and 16 bf%. i want to get to 75kg at 8% bf.

Darkstar
11-08-2010, 03:12 PM
Drink as much full milk as you can every day(at least 2 gallons) and lift heavy.

oaklandstephen
11-08-2010, 03:36 PM
i know this cant be done overnight so when i say quick i meen over a matter of months. but as quick as possible. i know this is a boxing forum so people might not be experts at bodybuilding but i keep seeing threads where people say ' i keep gaining too much muscle' so you guys must be on to something :D

also i am doing this for my boxing (yes i know that muscle dosent make you a better puncher, that is a discussion for another thread) so i train at my boxing gym twice a week too, how am i best fiting it round that? thanks

sounds like a terrible idea.

BrooklynBomber
11-08-2010, 03:53 PM
yeah that reason is that for 16 years i sat in front of the tv doing **** all :D ive only been boxing a month or two so its not like i reached my maximum potential. one problem i am having is that i have so little fat i have a low metabolism so i cant loose fat verry easily. and in the long term i am only going to gain 10 lbs, but i will loose alot of fat too. i am currently at 70kg and 16 bf%. i want to get to 75kg at 8% bf.

Well, there are two ways to approach this. An easy way is an all out bulk and then an all out cut. I suppose 70 KG is around 155 pounds, so go from 155 to 175 with a good bulk, which can be done over winter and then go on a diet for 3-4 months to lose the flab.
Another way would be to go on a strict dietary and training plan now and lose somewhere around 10-12 pounds, after that go into a clean bulk. Your body will will go into a super compensation mode(rebound) and you will be gaining pounds of muscle in months. But in reality all of this stuff is very complicated to do and you seem to be a complete noob. So your best approach would be to start eating clean, and training regurarly, that will give you steady noobgains for months.
You can look how to do this in any number of places, although boxing forum is not gonna be the most useful.

josh-hill
11-08-2010, 04:03 PM
well im a noob at boxing, but i would like to think i am quite knowledgeable at weightlifting. i have been lifting for nearly a year now but have only just taken up boxing. so far i have lost over half a stone over all and gained a bit of muscle. the problem i had is i wasnt getting anywhere near enough protein so i kept putting on too much fat and not enough muscle.

i keep being told that an all out bulk is the best way to go by the meatheads at BB.com but half of them are roid using social outcasts so i thought the people here would be more ballanced :D.

anyway if there is a beter way i would happily give it a go. personaly i would rather loose the fat now so i will do that. sadly i think i squandered my noob gains. but i am now going to make sure i do get a proper diet sorted.

what im thinking of doing is swimming 5 mornings a week, lifting 3 evenings and boxing 2 evenings (if it was up to me i would box more but the gym is only open 2 days a week) and eat about 2000 cals. how dose this look?

after i come off the diet could you recommend a type of program that would help slingshot me up a few lbs? again bb.com seems to think 3 day splits are the way to go, but i am sure that you need to work out each bodypart at least twice a week. im making a program at the moment to do that but i think i might have too much vollume.

also would it be easier for you guys if i used lbs instead of kg? thanks

BrooklynBomber
11-08-2010, 04:13 PM
well im a noob at boxing, but i would like to think i am quite knowledgeable at weightlifting. i have been lifting for nearly a year now but have only just taken up boxing. so far i have lost over half a stone over all and gained a bit of muscle. the problem i had is i wasnt getting anywhere near enough protein so i kept putting on too much fat and not enough muscle.

i keep being told that an all out bulk is the best way to go by the meatheads at BB.com but half of them are roid using social outcasts so i thought the people here would be more ballanced :D.

anyway if there is a beter way i would happily give it a go. personaly i would rather loose the fat now so i will do that. sadly i think i squandered my noob gains. but i am now going to make sure i do get a proper diet sorted.

what im thinking of doing is swimming 5 mornings a week, lifting 3 evenings and boxing 2 evenings (if it was up to me i would box more but the gym is only open 2 days a week) and eat about 2000 cals. how dose this look?

after i come off the diet could you recommend a type of program that would help slingshot me up a few lbs? again bb.com seems to think 3 day splits are the way to go, but i am sure that you need to work out each bodypart at least twice a week. im making a program at the moment to do that but i think i might have too much vollume.

also would it be easier for you guys if i used lbs instead of kg? thanks

That looks all right for a program to lose weight. Enough work there, at least.
As for gaining weight, use t-nation.com archives. They got the best information out there, when it comes to weightlifting. Pick whatever program they offer that suits you best. It's not nearly as important as the diet, which should be on the lock.

josh-hill
11-08-2010, 04:19 PM
ok thanks, yeah i learnt the nutrition lesson the hard way. just out of interest if i am still finding it hard to get the protein i need when i get my diet sorted should i invest in protein powder or weight gainer? i can only afford one. whey protein has only 25g of protein but am i right in thinking that the protein can be used quicker by the body and help recovery after a workout? whereas the weight gainer has 40g of protein but isnt as fast for protein synthesis. am i on the right tracks?

BrooklynBomber
11-08-2010, 04:26 PM
use protein powder, it has less calories

josh-hill
11-08-2010, 04:28 PM
cheers man, thanks for the help. :You_Rock_

Jean28
11-08-2010, 04:33 PM
Drink as much full milk as you can every day(at least 2 gallons) and lift heavy.


What does milk have that helps so much?

BrooklynBomber
11-08-2010, 04:57 PM
What does milk have that helps so much?

Lots of fat and protein.

josh-hill
11-08-2010, 04:58 PM
Well a fair bit of protein, but also a ****ton of fat

Spray_resistant
11-08-2010, 05:19 PM
well im a noob at boxing, but i would like to think i am quite knowledgeable at weightlifting. i have been lifting for nearly a year now but have only just taken up boxing. so far i have lost over half a stone over all and gained a bit of muscle. the problem i had is i wasnt getting anywhere near enough protein so i kept putting on too much fat and not enough muscle.

i keep being told that an all out bulk is the best way to go by the meatheads at BB.com but half of them are roid using social outcasts so i thought the people here would be more ballanced :D.

anyway if there is a beter way i would happily give it a go. personaly i would rather loose the fat now so i will do that. sadly i think i squandered my noob gains. but i am now going to make sure i do get a proper diet sorted.

what im thinking of doing is swimming 5 mornings a week, lifting 3 evenings and boxing 2 evenings (if it was up to me i would box more but the gym is only open 2 days a week) and eat about 2000 cals. how dose this look?

after i come off the diet could you recommend a type of program that would help slingshot me up a few lbs? again bb.com seems to think 3 day splits are the way to go, but i am sure that you need to work out each bodypart at least twice a week. im making a program at the moment to do that but i think i might have too much vollume.

also would it be easier for you guys if i used lbs instead of kg? thanks

I do the 3 day split routine and it is effective but 20lbs of muscle? You have to be kidding, there is no telling if your genetics will even allow that and there is no way you could do that in a couple of month by any natural means.

Also, on a 2K cal diet its not going to happen and boxing training in addition to swimming along with weight training may be over training and like this you won't gain any weight at all.

When it comes to putting on muscle doing too much is counter productive and rest is very important, those muscles don't grow in the weight room they grow in the bed when you are asleep.

josh-hill
11-08-2010, 06:12 PM
The 2000 cal diet is for Loosing weight, I Will Up that to 3000 when I start bulking up again. What do you keen genetics might stop me? Realy? Surely even I can reach 165lbs lean? I think I Have drawn the short straw genetically but if I work hard I am sure I can manage.

Clegg
11-08-2010, 09:20 PM
You won't gain 20lb of muscle that quickly. You should try to set yourself a more realistic goal.

Also I'd drop the swimming if I were you, unless you're doing it primarily for fun. If you doing it for exercise/conditioning then I wouldn't bother as your boxing and weight training will be enough for that.

josh-hill
11-09-2010, 12:35 PM
Ok I reckon I will get to 8% bf in 2 months, being 140 lbs when I finish. That's a pitiful weight lol, so when I finish another 25lbs of muscle would be nice :) ho on earth am I going to manage that? Ruining about it I should probably just fight at a low weight. I live in the uk so could someone point memto the official list of weight classes with whoever runs British amature boxing, thanks

Jack3d
11-09-2010, 12:52 PM
Test E 300mg/week for 12 weeks
5000 calories per day
Heavy Lifting
Lots of Rest

BrooklynBomber
11-09-2010, 06:03 PM
Test E 300mg/week for 12 weeks
5000 calories per day
Heavy Lifting
Lots of Rest

I am thinking of that little run myself this winter, although I would prolly kick it up to 400mg
Test E is the one you got to inject every day or every other day?

Jack3d
11-09-2010, 08:16 PM
I am thinking of that little run myself this winter, although I would prolly kick it up to 400mg
Test E is the one you got to inject every day or every other day?

Nah. Once a week. Test Prop is the one you're thinking of.

Prop is a short ester. So it takes less time to take effect, but since it's a short acting ester it needs to be injected more often so levels in the bloodstream stay stable. Since Prop is also short acting, the sides effects won't be as bad as a longer ester Test like Enanthate.

BrooklynBomber
11-09-2010, 08:44 PM
Nah. Once a week. Test Prop is the one you're thinking of.

Prop is a short ester. So it takes less time to take effect, but since it's a short acting ester it needs to be injected more often so levels in the bloodstream stay stable. Since Prop is also short acting, the sides effects won't be as bad as a longer ester Test like Enanthate.

Thanks up, that is the one I am being offered up by my trainer, or go for test e for 10 weeks and kick it up with d-bol for 4, but I am too much of a ***** to do two big gears for my first serious cycle

Jack3d
11-09-2010, 08:48 PM
Test E would still be fine. I wouldn't do Test P for your first cycle unless you think you'd enjoy being a human pin cushion. LOL

Test E is fine. It's cheap and it works.

There is a lot of debate on what one should do on your first cycle. A lot of people will tell you to go all out, since by nauture your first cycle is likely going to be your best cycle since your receptors will be fresh. Other prefer to go the cautious route and just keep it simple with straight test.

I'd prefer to go with just Test. If you're stacking like 2 or more compounds at a time, it's going to be hard to figure out what the root cause is if you happen to have an unfavorable adverse reaction.

josh-hill
11-10-2010, 01:57 PM
not sure but are those roids :D not happening lol. erm anyways can anyone link me to the official british weight classes? thanks

Spray_resistant
11-10-2010, 02:13 PM
The 2000 cal diet is for Loosing weight, I Will Up that to 3000 when I start bulking up again. What do you keen genetics might stop me? Realy? Surely even I can reach 165lbs lean? I think I Have drawn the short straw genetically but if I work hard I am sure I can manage.

I can't really say for sure if your genetics will allow but I am sure you know your own body. Some ppl just have a smaller build and a quick metabolism and can't put on much weight but with 1K cal more a day you should see some bulk. Like others have said though set some smaller realistic goals like 5lbs in 8 weeks because 20 is alot. It may not sound like it but if you packed on 20lbs of muscle you would look like a whole different person.

Jack3d
11-10-2010, 04:34 PM
not sure but are those roids :D not happening lol. erm anyways can anyone link me to the official british weight classes? thanks

Yeah they're roids.

But really if you aren't getting tested and you're at least 24, I wouldn't rule them out.

Steroids really do get a bad rap because of a few irresponsible and idiotic people. If used properly and intelligently at liberal dosages, they are relatively harmless.

Actually come to think of it, if you do test prop instead of test enth you could probably beat a test. If you time your last injection since Prop is a short ester.

josh-hill
11-10-2010, 05:28 PM
Well I'm 17, and tbh I have though about them and I'm sure the bad points are overexagerated but I have decided to rule them out. It just isn't worth the risk. Plies I would always feel guilty, I have a horrible concience lol. But anyways yeah breaking it down into 5 lbs chuncks is probably a good idea. I will cut down to a nice low bf% then bulk up 5 lbs, cut down again and repeat. Out of interest do you guys know a way I can put on muscle without a load of fat too? Or loose fat without muscle? Again I have been using body building sources wich are significantly different then boxing. Also if anyone questions why I want to be at that weight it's becaue I want to have a decent amount of muscle mass around my shoulders to help with a subluxation problem.

ding-ding
11-11-2010, 06:36 AM
ok thanks, yeah i learnt the nutrition lesson the hard way. just out of interest if i am still finding it hard to get the protein i need when i get my diet sorted should i invest in protein powder or weight gainer? i can only afford one. whey protein has only 25g of protein but am i right in thinking that the protein can be used quicker by the body and help recovery after a workout? whereas the weight gainer has 40g of protein but isnt as fast for protein synthesis. am i on the right tracks?

Hi mate

give us an example of a days eating including approx meal times, I'll see if I can offer some help. I am no pro but achieved some good "clean bulk" in the past

cheers

josh-hill
11-11-2010, 06:43 AM
ok thanks man. most days i will have a 2 eggs on toast for breakfast (about 15g of protein?) (need to cut down on the bread, too many empty cals). the for lunch 2 sandwiches with beef chicken and stuff in. (maybe 20g of protein each?)
preworkout meal of baked beens (25g) dinner (this is where i fall down. no idea what the cal, protein or fat content is but can be anything from pasta to roast chicken) and a last meal of 2 eggs on toast. so that comes to about

95g of protein + dinner wich is maybe up to 40 max. that would be a maximum amount realy, depending on what we have in the house i sometiems have much less.

problem is i am not the one in charge of the food budget and my parents claim meat is too expensive. so im going to invest in some preotein powder

ding-ding
11-11-2010, 07:39 AM
ok thanks man. most days i will have a 2 eggs on toast for breakfast (about 15g of protein?) (need to cut down on the bread, too many empty cals). the for lunch 2 sandwiches with beef chicken and stuff in. (maybe 20g of protein each?)
preworkout meal of baked beens (25g) dinner (this is where i fall down. no idea what the cal, protein or fat content is but can be anything from pasta to roast chicken) and a last meal of 2 eggs on toast. so that comes to about

95g of protein + dinner wich is maybe up to 40 max. that would be a maximum amoutn realy. some days much less.


cool, well you're getting plenty of protein sources by the looks of things, which is obviously good. Keep those carbs whole wheat / wholemeal etc

just for example heres a few more good protein sources:

Organic peanut butter
Cottage Cheese
Lean meats - Turkey / Chicken / Steak

I aint providing anything ground breaking here... but when I clean bulked it was just a case of reminding myself of what was good and what wasn't

I've never counted the grams of protein etc, I just lifted heavy and ate lots of good protein sources and fueled it with carbs sourced from wholemeal bread, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, quinoa (also protein rich)

I was doing it more for aesthetics and as you're swimming a lot and boxing twice per week you may need more calories to gain as you're doing so much CV work.

How have you found it so far are you making good gains?

josh-hill
11-11-2010, 08:23 AM
horrible gains acrturaly. when i started lifting i saw good gains. i got a decent amout of muscle, but also a hell of alot of fat. i was quite fat to begin with. i got from 18-12%bf and also lost alot of muscle but then i had the summer hollidays where i was away from home with no acess to a gym and went up to about 15% again. then i took up boxing and my lifting hasnt been as good. i tried to bulk and just seemed to put on more fat that muscle so gave up and ive been working on stregnth since. so far and have seen decent stregnth gains (got my squat up to 220lbs from 160 in a month :D) . as you can see its been a rollercoaster.

how do i know when im at 8%bf? would it be safe to say cut tilll i have a six pack, then bulk?

ding-ding
11-12-2010, 04:13 AM
horrible gains acrturaly. when i started lifting i saw good gains. i got a decent amout of muscle, but also a hell of alot of fat. i was quite fat to begin with. i got from 18-12%bf and also lost alot of muscle but then i had the summer hollidays where i was away from home with no acess to a gym and went up to about 15% again. then i took up boxing and my lifting hasnt been as good. i tried to bulk and just seemed to put on more fat that muscle so gave up and ive been working on stregnth since. so far and have seen decent stregnth gains (got my squat up to 220lbs from 160 in a month :D) . as you can see its been a rollercoaster.

how do i know when im at 8%bf? would it be safe to say cut tilll i have a six pack, then bulk?
Well your strength gains sounds impressive mate

8% body fat is proper low mate, you're talking cover model stuff for fitness magazines there, and to get there isn't neccessarily healthy and is difficult to maintain. For competitive boxing I'd guess 8% is going too low as you'll be zapped.

If your concerntrating on aesthetics I'd focus on dropping the fat for now, then you can see what you're working with and focus on bulking cleanly

One more round
11-12-2010, 04:27 AM
It depends on how you are built but generally most good competitive fighters would have a bf% in the 7-10 range. 8 isn't too low at all.

ding-ding
11-12-2010, 05:27 AM
It depends on how you are built but generally most good competitive fighters would have a bf% in the 7-10 range. 8 isn't too low at all.
I stand corrected....

does that include Eddie Chambers? :D

Check_hooks
11-12-2010, 06:12 AM
If your planning on adding weight and then cutting down to an ideal weight I would suggest going 5 pounds above the weight you wanna be at. Then Cut those 5 pounds off on the treadmill and weight room.

I remember reading that if you want to put on the weight and then cut down it doesnt have to be healthy foods. A few examples would be Robert DeNiro in Raging Bull who ate a ton of pancakes everyday. Or Jared Leto in Chapter 27 he melted ice cream in the microwave and mixed in soy sauce and olive oil to get fat. Or just do what most obese americans do and eat alot of fatty fried starchy foods. If your on a budget eat alot of eggs and drink sodas. That'll make you fat quick. I'm not sure if prices are that much different where you live that in the states but for 2 bucks you can get a carton of eggs and a loaf of bread.

josh-hill
11-12-2010, 09:49 AM
ok thanks for the help guys, im afraid to say i am quite vain so aesthetics are quite important. not as important as preformance, but im no where near competing level so it wont have huge concequences. its looking like i will go up in ~ 8lb chunks. after 3 cycles of cut and bulk i should be at a decent weight and stregnth. after that im going to work on my stregnth untill i get to a nice stregnth, then start doing circuit work to increase endurance.

ding-ding
11-15-2010, 05:40 AM
If your planning on adding weight and then cutting down to an ideal weight I would suggest going 5 pounds above the weight you wanna be at. Then Cut those 5 pounds off on the treadmill and weight room.

I remember reading that if you want to put on the weight and then cut down it doesnt have to be healthy foods. A few examples would be Robert DeNiro in Raging Bull who ate a ton of pancakes everyday. Or Jared Leto in Chapter 27 he melted ice cream in the microwave and mixed in soy sauce and olive oil to get fat. Or just do what most obese americans do and eat alot of fatty fried starchy foods. If your on a budget eat alot of eggs and drink sodas. That'll make you fat quick. I'm not sure if prices are that much different where you live that in the states but for 2 bucks you can get a carton of eggs and a loaf of bread.
got to disagree with you there bud

the guy is bulking with boxing performance in mind, dining out on a load of **** my lead to weight gains but the battle with fat loss and the effect on your inards is gonna be nothing but negative. Look at Ricky Hatton, I honestly think if he'd been more considerate to his body in between fights he'd not have wound up the way he has and he'd be all the better in the ring for it.

I ain't saying Josh-Hill should be a complete saint, he aint even competing as yet so the odd treat aint gonna hurt, in fact the principle of a cheat meal is a good boost, choose a day on the weekend where you're going to pig out, but dont rely on junk food to gain. Not if you have any aspirations of being fit / healthy