View Full Version : The 20 Greatest Fighters Since 1985


IwatchBoxing
08-15-2005, 02:51 PM
The Greatest Fighters Since 1985 by talking boxing
20. Shane Mosley
Shane Mosley makes my list because he was such a dominant and dynamic lightweight. And his title winning performance over Oscar De La Hoya in 2000 was special as well. The reason he doesn’t make it higher is because of his losses to Winky Wright and Vernon Forrest

19. Ricardo Lopez
Ricardo was a brilliant technician. He really had no weakness. I would have ranked him higher, But he never really had a career defining performance.

18. Azumah Nelson
There will never be another Professor. He was a great boxer, and he knew when to go in for the kill. Who could forget his destructive victory over an excellent Jeff Fenech in their 2nd fight?

17. Erik Morales
The man has never given us a bad fight. He owns wins over fighters like Marco Antonio Barrera, Junior Jones, and Manny Pacquiao. He was perhaps the most exciting fighter of the last 20 years.

16. Marco Antonio Barrera
Barrera is a brilliant prizefighter; his 2 wins over Morales demonstrate his greatness. And nobody will forget his dominating performance over The Prince Naseem Hamed.

15. Kosta Tszyu
Tszyu is one of the most dominating Jr. Welterweight’s of the last 20 years. His laser like right hand is one of boxing best punches. The win that defined his career was his concussing knockout over current undisputed welterweight champion Zab Judah.

14. Meldrick Taylor
Experts would say I have Meldrick way too high...Oh what could have been though, and what a magical fighter he was before he got in there with Chavez in 1990. Meldrick Taylor had the fastest hands I had ever seen. That includes Sugar Ray Leonard, Roy Jones Jr. and Sugar Shane Mosley among others. He gave us the best fight of the 1990’s with his masterpiece against Julio Cesar Chavez. He was robbed of missing out of an opportunity to finish the fight on his feet that night. And after that his career was never the same.

13. Michael McCallum
Yes the original Body Snatcher. The man was explosive inside the ring. Everybody talks about his body attack. But he was a masterful boxer as well. His win over Donald Curry was an example of his mastery.

12. Mike Tyson
Mike Tyson once was the biggest and baddest man on the planet. He was knocking everybody out. And he became one of the most popular sports figures in the world. In 1990, Buster Douglas knocked him out, in the biggest upset in boxing history. After that he was never the same. He would reclaim his crown, but Evander Holyfield knocked him out again in 1996. He is still a viable PPV fighter only because there are still Tyson die hards out there.

11. James Toney
James “Lights Out” Toney is the fighter every other fighter admires. He is one of the most skillful fighters of the past 20 years, and he is also one of the most accomplished. He would win titles in 3 different weight divisions, and on April 30th of this year he has a chance to be a 4-division champion. His propensity to get out of shape moves him down a little on my list.

10. Lennox Lewis
Lennox never gets his due. He was the best Heavyweight fighter of the 1990’s. He had it all from power to excellent boxing skills. He would have ranked higher had he not been knocked out twice by Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall

9. Sugar Ray Leonard - Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Yeah this may seem a bit low for both of these guys. But we are going from 1985 on, not 1978 on. So this is a good spot for both of these guys. Their 1987 fight was stuff of legend. And Hagler’s victory of Hearns in 1985 was one of the greatest fights in boxing history.

8. Tommy Hearns
Hearns above both of the guys who beat him, you may ask what the heck am I talking about. But remember that Hearns beat Sugar Ray Leonard in 1989, no matter what the judges said. And his victory over Virgil Hill to win the Light Heavyweight crown was stuff of legend.

7. Oscar De La Hoya
Oscar haters are going to be mad at me for this. But Oscar was a legitimate 4-division champion who fought the best fighters of his era. And while doing this he won more then he lost. His combination of speed and grace made him a fan favorite and his Hollywood looks made him a favorite of women fight fans. Regardless of what you think he will go down as a first ballot Hall of Famer.

6. Felix Trinidad
Perhaps the greatest Puerto Rican fighter ever, he has one of the best-left hooks I have ever seen. He is a destructive force, whose relentlessness is 2nd to none. Nobody will forget his crushing win over Fernando Vargas. People should not forget he was one of the greatest welterweights ever as well.

5. Julio Cesar Chavez
The greatest Mexican fighter of all time, to me he was just like Trinidad, except he had a better chin, but not as big a punch. He will be forever remembered for his comeback victory over Meldrick Taylor in 1990. But it was his work at 130 and 135 that made him a legend.

4. Bernard Hopkins
Bernard does everything right, give or take a few bad management decisions. He lives right, he fights right, and he understands the fight game better then any fighter I ever saw. He cares only about winning, and that is what he has done since he won the Middleweight title in 1995. His wins over Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya have defined his career.

3. Roy Jones Jr.
If you had asked me before beginning of last year, I would have told Roy was the best fighter of the past 20 years. He went through his career basically unchallenged, beating great fighters on this list like James Toney, Mike McCallum and Bernard Hopkins. But after his knock out loses to Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson, he has lost some of his luster. But regardless, you can’t take away what the man accomplished. He was the most talented fighter I had ever seen.

2. Pernell Whitaker
Whitaker was the Willie Pep of our generation. He was so good he barely lost any rounds in his prime. In my opinion he is the greatest lightweight of all-time, and he was a damn good welterweight too. He boxed circles around, Azumah Nelson and Julio Cesar Chavez and everybody else. Even when he was way past his prime, he fought a prime Oscar De La Hoya even up. The man was just amazing.

1. Evander Holyfield
The Real Deal was the best fighter of this generation. It is not because of what he did at heavyweight. It was because of what he did at heavyweight and cruiserweight. He destroyed the cruiserweight division, and he went on to become the most exciting heavyweight fighter since Muhammad Ali. Yeah he didn’t win all of his heavyweight title fights, but he won a lot more then he lost. And he pretty much beat every bigger fighter he ever fought, besides Lennox Lewis. For sheer excitement, heart, and passion there will never be another Evander Holyfield.


Honorable Mention:


Winky Wright


Manny Pacquaio


Terry Norris


James “Buddy” McGirt


Riddick Bowe


Virgil Hill


Hector Camacho


Roberto Duran


Iran Barkley


Marlon Starling


Julian Jackson


Gerald McClellan


Floyd Mayweather Jr.


Jeff Fenech


Orlando Canizales


Daniel Zaragoza


Michael Moorer, The Light Heavyweight Version


Michael Carbajal


Humberto Gonzales


Ike Quartey


Fernando Vargas


Michael Nunn

everlast99
08-15-2005, 08:02 PM
what about aaron pryor

what time is it? HAWK TIME!

Verstyle
09-11-2005, 02:41 PM
first off u have tyson way to low he should be top 5 if not 1 thats all ppl were talking about in the 80s and hearns,leonard and hagler should also

salsanchezfan
09-11-2005, 02:53 PM
One list is as good as another, I guess. It's all just opinion, but I don't see how Holyfield can be rated above guys like Whitaker or Chavez (or Nelson or McCallum, for that matter). Yes, he embodies the true warrior spirit and was exciting to watch, but that doesn't make him the best fighter. Just an exciting one. His career as a heavy was far too sketchy to have him at no. 1.

Just my $.02.........

rge
09-11-2005, 03:06 PM
One list is as good as another, I guess. It's all just opinion, but I don't see how Holyfield can be rated above guys like Whitaker or Chavez (or Nelson or McCallum, for that matter). Yes, he embodies the true warrior spirit and was exciting to watch, but that doesn't make him the best fighter. Just an exciting one. His career as a heavy was far too sketchy to have him at no. 1.

Just my $.02.........

I agree, it's different to be exciting than to be better than the two guys you mentioned.

Martin (Top Knowledge)
09-11-2005, 04:00 PM
4. Bernard Hopkins ... LOL!...:D ... That's a joke right?

Where are our boys Benn and Eubank? They didn't even get an "honourable mention" ???

Pariah21388
09-11-2005, 06:17 PM
evander holyfield??! thats bull****, tyson should move up to top 5.

Antonik
09-11-2005, 06:17 PM
Klitchko not even mentioned? You know hes the best heavy weight champion right now, right?

rocco1252
09-16-2005, 11:10 PM
Klitchko not even mentioned? You know hes the best heavy weight champion right now, right?
haha the guy who dogs fight after fight and should have had his belt taken away atleast a year ago! Haha and sorry Lewis was horrible, the guy couldnt fight had a bum chin and his only advatage was his size. You have Hearns on there but where's Gatti a great fight non the less should have been ahead of Mayorga atleast!

datneggajeep
09-17-2005, 07:07 PM
okay buddy, your list is screwed up.

+= El Jefe=+
10-22-2006, 07:13 PM
mmmm wow holy #1!!!! lol

Dempsey 1919
10-23-2006, 01:39 PM
The Greatest Fighters Since 1985 by talking boxing
20. Shane Mosley
Shane Mosley makes my list because he was such a dominant and dynamic lightweight. And his title winning performance over Oscar De La Hoya in 2000 was special as well. The reason he doesn’t make it higher is because of his losses to Winky Wright and Vernon Forrest

19. Ricardo Lopez
Ricardo was a brilliant technician. He really had no weakness. I would have ranked him higher, But he never really had a career defining performance.

18. Azumah Nelson
There will never be another Professor. He was a great boxer, and he knew when to go in for the kill. Who could forget his destructive victory over an excellent Jeff Fenech in their 2nd fight?

17. Erik Morales
The man has never given us a bad fight. He owns wins over fighters like Marco Antonio Barrera, Junior Jones, and Manny Pacquiao. He was perhaps the most exciting fighter of the last 20 years.

16. Marco Antonio Barrera
Barrera is a brilliant prizefighter; his 2 wins over Morales demonstrate his greatness. And nobody will forget his dominating performance over The Prince Naseem Hamed.

15. Kosta Tszyu
Tszyu is one of the most dominating Jr. Welterweight’s of the last 20 years. His laser like right hand is one of boxing best punches. The win that defined his career was his concussing knockout over current undisputed welterweight champion Zab Judah.

14. Meldrick Taylor
Experts would say I have Meldrick way too high...Oh what could have been though, and what a magical fighter he was before he got in there with Chavez in 1990. Meldrick Taylor had the fastest hands I had ever seen. That includes Sugar Ray Leonard, Roy Jones Jr. and Sugar Shane Mosley among others. He gave us the best fight of the 1990’s with his masterpiece against Julio Cesar Chavez. He was robbed of missing out of an opportunity to finish the fight on his feet that night. And after that his career was never the same.

13. Michael McCallum
Yes the original Body Snatcher. The man was explosive inside the ring. Everybody talks about his body attack. But he was a masterful boxer as well. His win over Donald Curry was an example of his mastery.

12. Mike Tyson
Mike Tyson once was the biggest and baddest man on the planet. He was knocking everybody out. And he became one of the most popular sports figures in the world. In 1990, Buster Douglas knocked him out, in the biggest upset in boxing history. After that he was never the same. He would reclaim his crown, but Evander Holyfield knocked him out again in 1996. He is still a viable PPV fighter only because there are still Tyson die hards out there.

11. James Toney
James “Lights Out” Toney is the fighter every other fighter admires. He is one of the most skillful fighters of the past 20 years, and he is also one of the most accomplished. He would win titles in 3 different weight divisions, and on April 30th of this year he has a chance to be a 4-division champion. His propensity to get out of shape moves him down a little on my list.

10. Lennox Lewis
Lennox never gets his due. He was the best Heavyweight fighter of the 1990’s. He had it all from power to excellent boxing skills. He would have ranked higher had he not been knocked out twice by Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall

9. Sugar Ray Leonard - Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Yeah this may seem a bit low for both of these guys. But we are going from 1985 on, not 1978 on. So this is a good spot for both of these guys. Their 1987 fight was stuff of legend. And Hagler’s victory of Hearns in 1985 was one of the greatest fights in boxing history.

8. Tommy Hearns
Hearns above both of the guys who beat him, you may ask what the heck am I talking about. But remember that Hearns beat Sugar Ray Leonard in 1989, no matter what the judges said. And his victory over Virgil Hill to win the Light Heavyweight crown was stuff of legend.

7. Oscar De La Hoya
Oscar haters are going to be mad at me for this. But Oscar was a legitimate 4-division champion who fought the best fighters of his era. And while doing this he won more then he lost. His combination of speed and grace made him a fan favorite and his Hollywood looks made him a favorite of women fight fans. Regardless of what you think he will go down as a first ballot Hall of Famer.

6. Felix Trinidad
Perhaps the greatest Puerto Rican fighter ever, he has one of the best-left hooks I have ever seen. He is a destructive force, whose relentlessness is 2nd to none. Nobody will forget his crushing win over Fernando Vargas. People should not forget he was one of the greatest welterweights ever as well.

5. Julio Cesar Chavez
The greatest Mexican fighter of all time, to me he was just like Trinidad, except he had a better chin, but not as big a punch. He will be forever remembered for his comeback victory over Meldrick Taylor in 1990. But it was his work at 130 and 135 that made him a legend.

4. Bernard Hopkins
Bernard does everything right, give or take a few bad management decisions. He lives right, he fights right, and he understands the fight game better then any fighter I ever saw. He cares only about winning, and that is what he has done since he won the Middleweight title in 1995. His wins over Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya have defined his career.

3. Roy Jones Jr.
If you had asked me before beginning of last year, I would have told Roy was the best fighter of the past 20 years. He went through his career basically unchallenged, beating great fighters on this list like James Toney, Mike McCallum and Bernard Hopkins. But after his knock out loses to Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson, he has lost some of his luster. But regardless, you can’t take away what the man accomplished. He was the most talented fighter I had ever seen.

2. Pernell Whitaker
Whitaker was the Willie Pep of our generation. He was so good he barely lost any rounds in his prime. In my opinion he is the greatest lightweight of all-time, and he was a damn good welterweight too. He boxed circles around, Azumah Nelson and Julio Cesar Chavez and everybody else. Even when he was way past his prime, he fought a prime Oscar De La Hoya even up. The man was just amazing.

1. Evander Holyfield
The Real Deal was the best fighter of this generation. It is not because of what he did at heavyweight. It was because of what he did at heavyweight and cruiserweight. He destroyed the cruiserweight division, and he went on to become the most exciting heavyweight fighter since Muhammad Ali. Yeah he didn’t win all of his heavyweight title fights, but he won a lot more then he lost. And he pretty much beat every bigger fighter he ever fought, besides Lennox Lewis. For sheer excitement, heart, and passion there will never be another Evander Holyfield.


Honorable Mention:


Winky Wright


Manny Pacquaio


Terry Norris


James “Buddy” McGirt


Riddick Bowe


Virgil Hill


Hector Camacho


Roberto Duran


Iran Barkley


Marlon Starling


Julian Jackson


Gerald McClellan


Floyd Mayweather Jr.


Jeff Fenech


Orlando Canizales


Daniel Zaragoza


Michael Moorer, The Light Heavyweight Version


Michael Carbajal


Humberto Gonzales


Ike Quartey


Fernando Vargas


Michael Nunn

That list is a big joke. Leonard is number one, and Tyson is top 5.

+= El Jefe=+
10-23-2006, 01:45 PM
That list is a big joke. Leonard is number one, and Tyson is top 5.

what about Chavez....

Dempsey 1919
10-23-2006, 01:48 PM
what about Chavez....

He's top 5, too.

realheavyhands
10-27-2006, 11:44 AM
you have to rememberhlyfield was killing giants and was labled at the giant killer.. he was 208 fight guys 235 to 250

Yaman
10-27-2006, 12:03 PM
I would rate Jones #1, for having the most complete package in performance, and physical ability. Tyson was only #1 status for 5 years from 85 and on. So like my brother Butthead said, he should be Top 5.

K-DOGG
10-27-2006, 04:13 PM
The Greatest Fighters Since 1985 by talking boxing
20. Shane Mosley
Shane Mosley makes my list because he was such a dominant and dynamic lightweight. And his title winning performance over Oscar De La Hoya in 2000 was special as well. The reason he doesn***8217;t make it higher is because of his losses to Winky Wright and Vernon Forrest

19. Ricardo Lopez
Ricardo was a brilliant technician. He really had no weakness. I would have ranked him higher, But he never really had a career defining performance.

18. Azumah Nelson
There will never be another Professor. He was a great boxer, and he knew when to go in for the kill. Who could forget his destructive victory over an excellent Jeff Fenech in their 2nd fight?

17. Erik Morales
The man has never given us a bad fight. He owns wins over fighters like Marco Antonio Barrera, Junior Jones, and Manny Pacquiao. He was perhaps the most exciting fighter of the last 20 years.

16. Marco Antonio Barrera
Barrera is a brilliant prizefighter; his 2 wins over Morales demonstrate his greatness. And nobody will forget his dominating performance over The Prince Naseem Hamed.

15. Kosta Tszyu
Tszyu is one of the most dominating Jr. Welterweight***8217;s of the last 20 years. His laser like right hand is one of boxing best punches. The win that defined his career was his concussing knockout over current undisputed welterweight champion Zab Judah.

14. Meldrick Taylor
Experts would say I have Meldrick way too high...Oh what could have been though, and what a magical fighter he was before he got in there with Chavez in 1990. Meldrick Taylor had the fastest hands I had ever seen. That includes Sugar Ray Leonard, Roy Jones Jr. and Sugar Shane Mosley among others. He gave us the best fight of the 1990***8217;s with his masterpiece against Julio Cesar Chavez. He was robbed of missing out of an opportunity to finish the fight on his feet that night. And after that his career was never the same.

13. Michael McCallum
Yes the original Body Snatcher. The man was explosive inside the ring. Everybody talks about his body attack. But he was a masterful boxer as well. His win over Donald Curry was an example of his mastery.

12. Mike Tyson
Mike Tyson once was the biggest and baddest man on the planet. He was knocking everybody out. And he became one of the most popular sports figures in the world. In 1990, Buster Douglas knocked him out, in the biggest upset in boxing history. After that he was never the same. He would reclaim his crown, but Evander Holyfield knocked him out again in 1996. He is still a viable PPV fighter only because there are still Tyson die hards out there.

11. James Toney
James ***8220;Lights Out***8221; Toney is the fighter every other fighter admires. He is one of the most skillful fighters of the past 20 years, and he is also one of the most accomplished. He would win titles in 3 different weight divisions, and on April 30th of this year he has a chance to be a 4-division champion. His propensity to get out of shape moves him down a little on my list.

10. Lennox Lewis
Lennox never gets his due. He was the best Heavyweight fighter of the 1990***8217;s. He had it all from power to excellent boxing skills. He would have ranked higher had he not been knocked out twice by Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall

9. Sugar Ray Leonard - Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Yeah this may seem a bit low for both of these guys. But we are going from 1985 on, not 1978 on. So this is a good spot for both of these guys. Their 1987 fight was stuff of legend. And Hagler***8217;s victory of Hearns in 1985 was one of the greatest fights in boxing history.

8. Tommy Hearns
Hearns above both of the guys who beat him, you may ask what the heck am I talking about. But remember that Hearns beat Sugar Ray Leonard in 1989, no matter what the judges said. And his victory over Virgil Hill to win the Light Heavyweight crown was stuff of legend.

7. Oscar De La Hoya
Oscar haters are going to be mad at me for this. But Oscar was a legitimate 4-division champion who fought the best fighters of his era. And while doing this he won more then he lost. His combination of speed and grace made him a fan favorite and his Hollywood looks made him a favorite of women fight fans. Regardless of what you think he will go down as a first ballot Hall of Famer.

6. Felix Trinidad
Perhaps the greatest Puerto Rican fighter ever, he has one of the best-left hooks I have ever seen. He is a destructive force, whose relentlessness is 2nd to none. Nobody will forget his crushing win over Fernando Vargas. People should not forget he was one of the greatest welterweights ever as well.

5. Julio Cesar Chavez
The greatest Mexican fighter of all time, to me he was just like Trinidad, except he had a better chin, but not as big a punch. He will be forever remembered for his comeback victory over Meldrick Taylor in 1990. But it was his work at 130 and 135 that made him a legend.

4. Bernard Hopkins
Bernard does everything right, give or take a few bad management decisions. He lives right, he fights right, and he understands the fight game better then any fighter I ever saw. He cares only about winning, and that is what he has done since he won the Middleweight title in 1995. His wins over Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya have defined his career.

3. Roy Jones Jr.
If you had asked me before beginning of last year, I would have told Roy was the best fighter of the past 20 years. He went through his career basically unchallenged, beating great fighters on this list like James Toney, Mike McCallum and Bernard Hopkins. But after his knock out loses to Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson, he has lost some of his luster. But regardless, you can***8217;t take away what the man accomplished. He was the most talented fighter I had ever seen.

2. Pernell Whitaker
Whitaker was the Willie Pep of our generation. He was so good he barely lost any rounds in his prime. In my opinion he is the greatest lightweight of all-time, and he was a damn good welterweight too. He boxed circles around, Azumah Nelson and Julio Cesar Chavez and everybody else. Even when he was way past his prime, he fought a prime Oscar De La Hoya even up. The man was just amazing.

1. Evander Holyfield
The Real Deal was the best fighter of this generation. It is not because of what he did at heavyweight. It was because of what he did at heavyweight and cruiserweight. He destroyed the cruiserweight division, and he went on to become the most exciting heavyweight fighter since Muhammad Ali. Yeah he didn***8217;t win all of his heavyweight title fights, but he won a lot more then he lost. And he pretty much beat every bigger fighter he ever fought, besides Lennox Lewis. For sheer excitement, heart, and passion there will never be another Evander Holyfield.


Honorable Mention:


Winky Wright


Manny Pacquaio


Terry Norris


James ***8220;Buddy***8221; McGirt


Riddick Bowe


Virgil Hill


Hector Camacho


Roberto Duran


Iran Barkley


Marlon Starling


Julian Jackson


Gerald McClellan


Floyd Mayweather Jr.


Jeff Fenech


Orlando Canizales


Daniel Zaragoza


Michael Moorer, The Light Heavyweight Version


Michael Carbajal


Humberto Gonzales


Ike Quartey


Fernando Vargas


Michael Nunn


Personally, I would have ranked Nelson, McCallum, Barrera, Tszyu, and Morales higher; and definetly put Canizales, Gonzales, McClellan, Wright, and Mayweather Jr. on the list....and Hill probably deserves to be on there, too, as does Eubank and Benn....whle removing Leonard, Hagler, and possibly Hearns. And, of course there are a few other changes I'd make; but it's your list, after all. :D

Pretty good list, though. I know how nerve racking it can be to put one together. Props.
:fing02:

j
10-28-2006, 11:33 PM
wow! this list is just ****ing :omfg: stupid!

kostya tszyu just cracked the top 15? no mention of vitali or wladimir klitschko.

shane mosley on the list and pacquiao is not?


:nonono:

iwagh911
11-02-2006, 08:52 PM
Guys chill...

Iwatchboxing - although it's obvious some people would change the ranking or change the list entirely, THANK YOU for a.) putting some thought into a thread b.) being literate so we can all read (not t34m sP34k or ghetoo talk) c.) not flaming fighters

Verstyle
11-02-2006, 09:26 PM
im still curious on why he has tyson so damn low.his new name should be idontwatchboxing. and every1 knows tyson revived boxing.

Yogi
11-02-2006, 09:35 PM
and every1 knows tyson revived boxing.

Apparently I'm the only one who doesn't know, but...Tyson did what again?

Southpaw Stinger
11-02-2006, 10:20 PM
im still curious on why he has tyson so damn low.his new name should be idontwatchboxing. and every1 knows tyson revived boxing.

He brought some excitement back to the heavies, but before him there were still the likes of Hagler, Hearns, Leonard and Duran to keep boxing in the mainstream. That was the best part of that era, that it gave the lower weights some more attention and allowed some of the best fight action to be widely seen.

Verstyle
11-02-2006, 11:23 PM
Apparently I'm the only one who doesn't know, but...Tyson did what again?

i know u hear ppl saying how tyson made the sport more alive again.no1 saw ne thing like tyson in a while

oldgringo
11-03-2006, 12:34 AM
I would personally have Whitaker #1, Morales and Nelson higher. Then again those are 3 of my favorite fighters.

Yogi
11-03-2006, 11:46 AM
i know u hear ppl saying how tyson made the sport more alive again.no1 saw ne thing like tyson in a while

I may have heard people make claims like that (a entirely false claim, in my opinion), but in no way do I "know" that Tyson supposedly revived the sport.

In order for something to be "revived" in would have to have been dead or at least in pretty rough shape, which boxing was a FAR way from being in the years previous to Tyson. In fact, in my 30 years as a boxing fan I've never seen a stronger time in boxing than the decade previous to Tyson, as back then boxing certainly held a higher place in the general public than it does nowadays (helped immensely by the sport being a regular feature on network television on the weekends...every weekend actually, and very often shown on both Sat & Sun, with multiple fights shown on each broadcast), or even than it did around the late 80's, early 90's (Tyson's era) when the sport was pushed off of network televsion.

As Stinger alluded to, Tyson gave a spark to the heavyweight division and only the heavyweight division, which wasn't in the best of shape (no pun intended) at that time...That's ALL Tyson did for boxing at that time, because the sport of boxing, as a whole, was in tremendous shape in the years leading up to him hitting the scene.

BigMKO
11-03-2006, 12:12 PM
Kostya Tszyu is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too low

MelMel
11-13-2006, 06:59 AM
Personally, I would have ranked Nelson, McCallum, Barrera, Tszyu, and Morales higher; and definetly put Canizales, Gonzales, McClellan, Wright, and Mayweather Jr. on the list....and Hill probably deserves to be on there, too, as does Eubank and Benn....whle removing Leonard, Hagler, and possibly Hearns. And, of course there are a few other changes I'd make; but it's your list, after all. :D

Say what?


shane mosley on the list and pacquiao is not?

Are you kidding? You think Pacquiao > Mosley??? You realize Shane didn't enter the sport at 147, right?

TheHoff'sGhost
11-13-2006, 10:21 AM
leonard should be number 1

hagler and tszyu should be higher

roy jones at 3 lmao! way too high

and the list is being kind on tyson

K-DOGG
11-13-2006, 02:25 PM
Say what?



Are you kidding? You think Pacquiao > Mosley??? You realize Shane didn't enter the sport at 147, right?


1985 to present, correct?

Leonard was done as a great fighter...with the exception of his exceptional peformance against Hagler, who was past his best too, in 1987. That's one fight in the last 20 years and neither were at their best....and the verdict is still disputed among fans and pundits alike.

Hearns, after Hagler, won a few fights here and there; but does he deserve to be in the Top 20? He beat, Juan Roldan, Dennis Andres, Virgil Hill, an old Ray Leonard, and who else after 1985.....while being stopped in 3 by Hagler and in three by Iran Barkley, and over 12 by Barkley.

Leonard, Hagler, and Hearns are all-time-greats, no argument; but they were all past their best after 1985. When looking at the best fighters in the last 20 years, you can't just go with the names of the all-timers whose careers happend to barely cross that line....you have to look at the fighters who actually performed on a championship level over a consistant period of time during that 20 years.

Hagler retied in 1987 after beating Heanrs and Mugabi and losing to Leaonard.....that's two years and three fights into our twenty year stretch.

Leonard beat Hagler, which was disputed, Donnie LaLonde, and and old Roberto Duran....while losing to Hearns, being embarrassed by Norris, and stopped by Camacho.


See what I mean?

MelMel
11-14-2006, 06:55 AM
Understood.

BuddyChacon
11-14-2006, 11:56 AM
Good list where is Khasai Galaxy his deserves to be on the list or at least an honorable mention. McCallam and Nelson should be higher.

yrrej
11-14-2006, 09:50 PM
I don't understand what is the love affair with Holyfield? He was only an average heavyweight champ on the all-time scale.....

flipside
11-15-2006, 02:56 AM
The Greatest Fighters Since 1985 by talking boxing
20. Shane Mosley
Shane Mosley makes my list because he was such a dominant and dynamic lightweight. And his title winning performance over Oscar De La Hoya in 2000 was special as well. The reason he doesn’t make it higher is because of his losses to Winky Wright and Vernon Forrest

19. Ricardo Lopez
Ricardo was a brilliant technician. He really had no weakness. I would have ranked him higher, But he never really had a career defining performance.

18. Azumah Nelson
There will never be another Professor. He was a great boxer, and he knew when to go in for the kill. Who could forget his destructive victory over an excellent Jeff Fenech in their 2nd fight?

17. Erik Morales
The man has never given us a bad fight. He owns wins over fighters like Marco Antonio Barrera, Junior Jones, and Manny Pacquiao. He was perhaps the most exciting fighter of the last 20 years.

16. Marco Antonio Barrera
Barrera is a brilliant prizefighter; his 2 wins over Morales demonstrate his greatness. And nobody will forget his dominating performance over The Prince Naseem Hamed.

15. Kosta Tszyu
Tszyu is one of the most dominating Jr. Welterweight’s of the last 20 years. His laser like right hand is one of boxing best punches. The win that defined his career was his concussing knockout over current undisputed welterweight champion Zab Judah.

14. Meldrick Taylor
Experts would say I have Meldrick way too high...Oh what could have been though, and what a magical fighter he was before he got in there with Chavez in 1990. Meldrick Taylor had the fastest hands I had ever seen. That includes Sugar Ray Leonard, Roy Jones Jr. and Sugar Shane Mosley among others. He gave us the best fight of the 1990’s with his masterpiece against Julio Cesar Chavez. He was robbed of missing out of an opportunity to finish the fight on his feet that night. And after that his career was never the same.

13. Michael McCallum
Yes the original Body Snatcher. The man was explosive inside the ring. Everybody talks about his body attack. But he was a masterful boxer as well. His win over Donald Curry was an example of his mastery.

12. Mike Tyson
Mike Tyson once was the biggest and baddest man on the planet. He was knocking everybody out. And he became one of the most popular sports figures in the world. In 1990, Buster Douglas knocked him out, in the biggest upset in boxing history. After that he was never the same. He would reclaim his crown, but Evander Holyfield knocked him out again in 1996. He is still a viable PPV fighter only because there are still Tyson die hards out there.

11. James Toney
James “Lights Out” Toney is the fighter every other fighter admires. He is one of the most skillful fighters of the past 20 years, and he is also one of the most accomplished. He would win titles in 3 different weight divisions, and on April 30th of this year he has a chance to be a 4-division champion. His propensity to get out of shape moves him down a little on my list.

10. Lennox Lewis
Lennox never gets his due. He was the best Heavyweight fighter of the 1990’s. He had it all from power to excellent boxing skills. He would have ranked higher had he not been knocked out twice by Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall

9. Sugar Ray Leonard - Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Yeah this may seem a bit low for both of these guys. But we are going from 1985 on, not 1978 on. So this is a good spot for both of these guys. Their 1987 fight was stuff of legend. And Hagler’s victory of Hearns in 1985 was one of the greatest fights in boxing history.

8. Tommy Hearns
Hearns above both of the guys who beat him, you may ask what the heck am I talking about. But remember that Hearns beat Sugar Ray Leonard in 1989, no matter what the judges said. And his victory over Virgil Hill to win the Light Heavyweight crown was stuff of legend.

7. Oscar De La Hoya
Oscar haters are going to be mad at me for this. But Oscar was a legitimate 4-division champion who fought the best fighters of his era. And while doing this he won more then he lost. His combination of speed and grace made him a fan favorite and his Hollywood looks made him a favorite of women fight fans. Regardless of what you think he will go down as a first ballot Hall of Famer.

6. Felix Trinidad
Perhaps the greatest Puerto Rican fighter ever, he has one of the best-left hooks I have ever seen. He is a destructive force, whose relentlessness is 2nd to none. Nobody will forget his crushing win over Fernando Vargas. People should not forget he was one of the greatest welterweights ever as well.

5. Julio Cesar Chavez
The greatest Mexican fighter of all time, to me he was just like Trinidad, except he had a better chin, but not as big a punch. He will be forever remembered for his comeback victory over Meldrick Taylor in 1990. But it was his work at 130 and 135 that made him a legend.

4. Bernard Hopkins
Bernard does everything right, give or take a few bad management decisions. He lives right, he fights right, and he understands the fight game better then any fighter I ever saw. He cares only about winning, and that is what he has done since he won the Middleweight title in 1995. His wins over Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya have defined his career.

3. Roy Jones Jr.
If you had asked me before beginning of last year, I would have told Roy was the best fighter of the past 20 years. He went through his career basically unchallenged, beating great fighters on this list like James Toney, Mike McCallum and Bernard Hopkins. But after his knock out loses to Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson, he has lost some of his luster. But regardless, you can’t take away what the man accomplished. He was the most talented fighter I had ever seen.

2. Pernell Whitaker
Whitaker was the Willie Pep of our generation. He was so good he barely lost any rounds in his prime. In my opinion he is the greatest lightweight of all-time, and he was a damn good welterweight too. He boxed circles around, Azumah Nelson and Julio Cesar Chavez and everybody else. Even when he was way past his prime, he fought a prime Oscar De La Hoya even up. The man was just amazing.

1. Evander Holyfield
The Real Deal was the best fighter of this generation. It is not because of what he did at heavyweight. It was because of what he did at heavyweight and cruiserweight. He destroyed the cruiserweight division, and he went on to become the most exciting heavyweight fighter since Muhammad Ali. Yeah he didn’t win all of his heavyweight title fights, but he won a lot more then he lost. And he pretty much beat every bigger fighter he ever fought, besides Lennox Lewis. For sheer excitement, heart, and passion there will never be another Evander Holyfield.


Honorable Mention:


Winky Wright


Manny Pacquaio


Terry Norris


James “Buddy” McGirt


Riddick Bowe


Virgil Hill


Hector Camacho


Roberto Duran


Iran Barkley


Marlon Starling


Julian Jackson


Gerald McClellan


Floyd Mayweather Jr.


Jeff Fenech


Orlando Canizales


Daniel Zaragoza


Michael Moorer, The Light Heavyweight Version


Michael Carbajal


Humberto Gonzales


Ike Quartey


Fernando Vargas


Michael Nunn
where's marvin hagler?

flipside
11-15-2006, 02:58 AM
Good list where is Khasai Galaxy his deserves to be on the list or at least an honorable mention. McCallam and Nelson should be higher.
i remember him being KO'd by espinosa :D

machotime
11-15-2006, 01:21 PM
Give iwatchboxing credit, this is his opinion and many different people look at different things when deciding who have been the best boxers.

Some of us focus on accomplishments, while others focus on entertainment value, or caliber of competition.

I myself cannot agree with any of you that consider Tyson in the top 5. Yes he was exciting, but the caliber of his opponents was weak, and he did not perform well when faced with substantial opposition.

I would personally rank Erik Morales, SRL, Hagler, and Nelson Higher than what they are. I also would not rank RJJ as high as he is, he was maybe top 10 but not top 5.

Hydro
12-12-2006, 04:58 PM
Holyfield shouldn't be #1, he is not even the greatest fighter to come out of the 1984 U.S. Olympic team.

I enjoyed the read though.

Verstyle
12-12-2006, 05:17 PM
Give iwatchboxing credit, this is his opinion and many different people look at different things when deciding who have been the best boxers.

Some of us focus on accomplishments, while others focus on entertainment value, or caliber of competition.

I myself cannot agree with any of you that consider Tyson in the top 5. Yes he was exciting, but the caliber of his opponents was weak, and he did not perform well when faced with substantial opposition.

I would personally rank Erik Morales, SRL, Hagler, and Nelson Higher than what they are. I also would not rank RJJ as high as he is, he was maybe top 10 but not top 5.

what does that have to do with his accomplishments in the ring. he beat those guys.enough said. i dont care if they were midgets,he beat them

wpink1
11-10-2007, 05:46 PM
I would rank Mayweather clealry as #1, he has moved up from 130 and beaten everyone he has faced...Sluggers, boxers, legends..bigger men..etc... He has done in theire own backyard, own their own terms...etc.. Who else can say that they have moved up from 130 to 154 remained unbeaten, won WBC titles, not ibf, IBO, WBO...but WBC titles the official and most accliamed title in boxing. Who else can say that they moved up 24 pounds and beat a fighter the quality of DLH...who can say that since 1985. Ray Leonard (my favorite) got great kudos for his win vs Hagler when he moved u 13 pounds (yes he was also retired too). Love him or hate him, he is doing it all.

People jump on him because he is not the most exciting fighter at the higher wieghts. However they fail to realize he is fighting much bigger men, most of the time. He is doing this, and miracoulusly he is the one who has all the energy at th end of the fight to win almost every late round of any fight he is in. Generally gaining weight slows down a fighter and tires them out..Not Mayweather!

Give him his due, the man ( oh i forgot to say I dislike him) is simpy the best we have seen since leonard, and the best with skills since Roy Jones.

Roy Jones IMO is 2nd, and the only reason he is 2nd is because he did not have the quality of fights that a Mayweather has. However, the man made mistake after mistake, but you know what he was fast enough so that no one could make him pay for it, with a loss on his resume until he was 35. WOW. He did beat Hopkins and Toney in their peak years and at effective fighting weights. He should have fought Benn, McCllellan (but he became paralyzed)Jackson, DM, etc...This would have solidified him. Skill wise if you factor in his speed was soooooo overwhelming, I rank him skill wise the best since young Ali or Robinson, even over Leonard. Yes over Leonard, skill wise, but what made Ray was skill, speed, combined with heart...and smarts.

Verstyle
11-10-2007, 05:50 PM
:lol1: at Trinidad in the top 5 of his list.

Dempsey 1919
11-10-2007, 06:09 PM
I would rank Mayweather clealry as #1, he has moved up from 130 and beaten everyone he has faced...Sluggers, boxers, legends..bigger men..etc... He has done in theire own backyard, own their own terms...etc.. Who else can say that they have moved up from 130 to 154 remained unbeaten, won WBC titles, not ibf, IBO, WBO...but WBC titles the official and most accliamed title in boxing. Who else can say that they moved up 24 pounds and beat a fighter the quality of DLH...who can say that since 1985. Ray Leonard (my favorite) got great kudos for his win vs Hagler when he moved u 13 pounds (yes he was also retired too). Love him or hate him, he is doing it all.

People jump on him because he is not the most exciting fighter at the higher wieghts. However they fail to realize he is fighting much bigger men, most of the time. He is doing this, and miracoulusly he is the one who has all the energy at th end of the fight to win almost every late round of any fight he is in. Generally gaining weight slows down a fighter and tires them out..Not Mayweather!

Give him his due, the man ( oh i forgot to say I dislike him) is simpy the best we have seen since leonard, and the best with skills since Roy Jones.

Roy Jones IMO is 2nd, and the only reason he is 2nd is because he did not have the quality of fights that a Mayweather has. However, the man made mistake after mistake, but you know what he was fast enough so that no one could make him pay for it, with a loss on his resume until he was 35. WOW. He did beat Hopkins and Toney in their peak years and at effective fighting weights. He should have fought Benn, McCllellan (but he became paralyzed)Jackson, DM, etc...This would have solidified him. Skill wise if you factor in his speed was soooooo overwhelming, I rank him skill wise the best since young Ali or Robinson, even over Leonard. Yes over Leonard, skill wise, but what made Ray was skill, speed, combined with heart...and smarts.

It was a close fight the DLH fight and plus Oscar was past his prime, so I don't see how that justifies Mayweather as being number 1.:nonono:

Jim Jeffries
11-10-2007, 10:18 PM
haha the guy who dogs fight after fight and should have had his belt taken away atleast a year ago! Haha and sorry Lewis was horrible, the guy couldnt fight had a bum chin and his only advatage was his size. You have Hearns on there but where's Gatti a great fight non the less should have been ahead of Mayorga atleast!

I seriously hope you're not comparing Gatti to Hearns.:ugh:

Jim Jeffries
11-10-2007, 10:28 PM
I would rank Mayweather clealry as #1, he has moved up from 130 and beaten everyone he has faced...Sluggers, boxers, legends..bigger men..etc... He has done in theire own backyard, own their own terms...etc.. Who else can say that they have moved up from 130 to 154 remained unbeaten, won WBC titles, not ibf, IBO, WBO...but WBC titles the official and most accliamed title in boxing. Who else can say that they moved up 24 pounds and beat a fighter the quality of DLH...who can say that since 1985. Ray Leonard (my favorite) got great kudos for his win vs Hagler when he moved u 13 pounds (yes he was also retired too). Love him or hate him, he is doing it all.

People jump on him because he is not the most exciting fighter at the higher wieghts. However they fail to realize he is fighting much bigger men, most of the time. He is doing this, and miracoulusly he is the one who has all the energy at th end of the fight to win almost every late round of any fight he is in. Generally gaining weight slows down a fighter and tires them out..Not Mayweather!

Give him his due, the man ( oh i forgot to say I dislike him) is simpy the best we have seen since leonard, and the best with skills since Roy Jones.

Roy Jones IMO is 2nd, and the only reason he is 2nd is because he did not have the quality of fights that a Mayweather has. However, the man made mistake after mistake, but you know what he was fast enough so that no one could make him pay for it, with a loss on his resume until he was 35. WOW. He did beat Hopkins and Toney in their peak years and at effective fighting weights. He should have fought Benn, McCllellan (but he became paralyzed)Jackson, DM, etc...This would have solidified him. Skill wise if you factor in his speed was soooooo overwhelming, I rank him skill wise the best since young Ali or Robinson, even over Leonard. Yes over Leonard, skill wise, but what made Ray was skill, speed, combined with heart...and smarts.

Lets see Hearns won belts in 5 weight divisions, but in a greater range, from welterweight all the way to light heavy (28 pounds) I'm obviously not counting the two belts he won at cruiserweight (WBU and IBO.) Oscar De La Hoya won 6 belts, same 5 weights as Mayweather, but also middleweight (30 pound range.) The fact that Floyd beat a semi-retired Oscar with 1 fight in 3 years who had lost 2 of his last 4 doesn't mean too much. Floyd #1 in the last 22 years? I suggest you watch more boxing.

wpink1
11-11-2007, 08:52 PM
Gavin..I need to watch more boxing...Your saying DLH and or Hearns, better than Mayweather is a complete Joke. I think the world of Hearns,but the fact he got stopped at his original weight class, stopped at 160 and stopped at 168...I do agree that 2 of these losses were to alltime greats,but the fact is they are losses. Dlh is by far one of the most overrated fighters to ever lace up gloves, if we are calling him a legend or all time great.

Whitacker......very very very iffy decision
Quartey....... great last round but lost IMO
Chavez ........ old at the time he fought him
Mosley...... lost twice
Hopkins ......stopped by a body punch.
Trinidad......he stupidly gave this fight away by running the last 3 rounds..

DLH has fought a whose who list of great fighters, but he has not beaten any of those fighters to the point where you left the fight knowing that DLH beyound a shadow of a doubt. I am not talking about a gift decision here or there, I am talking about every singe figt he had was a guess who won, unless your talking about Chavez who was old at the time...

Mayweather has beaten Correlles, hernandez, Gotti, Judah, DlH at 154 (when he practicly gave DlH every single negotiated advantage one could ever imagine), Now if he beats Hatton, and it would have been Mosley but now Cotto....You have to place him at the top of the list since Leonard. No one else has done that, and moved up from weight classes like he has versus the quality of fighters he has and remained undefeated.

You can hate him but those are facts.

Brockton Lip
11-11-2007, 09:03 PM
Hearns is a better fighter than Mayweather and in addition, a horrible matchup for Floyd as well.

wpink1
11-11-2007, 09:11 PM
pound per pound hearns is not a better fighter than floyd...but at welterwieght I would give hearns the nod. Study the facts. hearns 3 times put to sleep..Mayweather barely ever touched the canvas, and is undefeated even as he has moved up from 130 to 154.

Mike Tyson77
11-11-2007, 09:34 PM
Roy Jones, Tyson, and Hagler gotta be top 5.

wpink1
11-11-2007, 09:38 PM
Hagler not since 1985...he only had Mugabi, and maby another win, then his loss to Ray since 1985

Jim Jeffries
11-12-2007, 02:44 AM
pound per pound hearns is not a better fighter than floyd...but at welterwieght I would give hearns the nod. Study the facts. hearns 3 times put to sleep..Mayweather barely ever touched the canvas, and is undefeated even as he has moved up from 130 to 154.

ONE fight at 154 against a boxing promoter with 1 fight in 3 years and having lost 2 of his last 4, in which he scraped by with a SPLIT decision. At 147, one of the most talented divisions in boxing, if not the, he fights Baldomir, Judah, and Mitchell instead of fighting Williams, Cotto, Mosley, Margarito, Cintron, etc, and then instead of fighting these guys now, he fights a 140 pounder that looked terrible in his only fight at 147. Yup, Mayfeather is the best ever.

Jim Jeffries
11-12-2007, 02:47 AM
pound per pound hearns is not a better fighter than floyd...but at welterwieght I would give hearns the nod. Study the facts. hearns 3 times put to sleep..Mayweather barely ever touched the canvas, and is undefeated even as he has moved up from 130 to 154.

At least you admit Hearns would beat Floyd at 147, add Ray Leonard to that, then go to 135, Shane Mosley and Roberto Duran would have beaten him, in their primes of course. So how can he be the best fighter in the last 22 years?

wpink1
11-12-2007, 09:43 PM
Easily. First off ....Duran had issues with speed and boxing. He quit when he faced Ray when Ray boxed him, and Ray my favorite fighter ever was not as good defensivly as Mayweather was.

Yes Hearns would destory Mayweather at 147, stylistically it is a unwinnable fight for Mayweather to fight Hearns, even Paul Williams who throws soo many punches that a much smaller fighter only has a chance if the makes it a war. This is not a Mayweather style, at least not what we have seen at 147. You have some good points about the names at welter, however he has called out Mosley many many many times, and now Mosley finally got some balls and has said he would fight him,,,but oooops he lost to Cotto. I Honestly feel that Mayweather will fight Cotto, and if he does and beats him that hs hatton, judah, Cotto, DLH, Gotti, Correles, Baldimir...etc...No one else you can name has fought a resume like that and remained unbeaten. That is why you have to rank him up there.

Does he leave a lot to be desired with his style, yes he does, but he wins! So Duran moved up and got his ass beaten repeatedly around the same age as Mayweather...leoanrd beat him, Hearns stopped him , Benetix beat him, and Hagler. it is funny that Duran fans always seem to forget the ass whippings he took all by the age of 34. Mayweather has moved up and remained unbeated, and has fought fighters as good as Benetiz. Maybe not a Hearns, or Leonard, or Hagler... But Duran lost those fights. Mosley got his beat by Forrest, Wright, and now Cotto...yes he is older but when he was younger he only beat DLH...the rest of fights were vs who?

Jim Jeffries
11-12-2007, 11:56 PM
Easily. First off ....Duran had issues with speed and boxing. He quit when he faced Ray when Ray boxed him, and Ray my favorite fighter ever was not as good defensivly as Mayweather was.

Yes Hearns would destory Mayweather at 147, stylistically it is a unwinnable fight for Mayweather to fight Hearns, even Paul Williams who throws soo many punches that a much smaller fighter only has a chance if the makes it a war. This is not a Mayweather style, at least not what we have seen at 147. You have some good points about the names at welter, however he has called out Mosley many many many times, and now Mosley finally got some balls and has said he would fight him,,,but oooops he lost to Cotto. I Honestly feel that Mayweather will fight Cotto, and if he does and beats him that hs hatton, judah, Cotto, DLH, Gotti, Correles, Baldimir...etc...No one else you can name has fought a resume like that and remained unbeaten. That is why you have to rank him up there.

Does he leave a lot to be desired with his style, yes he does, but he wins! So Duran moved up and got his ass beaten repeatedly around the same age as Mayweather...leoanrd beat him, Hearns stopped him , Benetix beat him, and Hagler. it is funny that Duran fans always seem to forget the ass whippings he took all by the age of 34. Mayweather has moved up and remained unbeated, and has fought fighters as good as Benetiz. Maybe not a Hearns, or Leonard, or Hagler... But Duran lost those fights. Mosley got his beat by Forrest, Wright, and now Cotto...yes he is older but when he was younger he only beat DLH...the rest of fights were vs who?

Do you know what boxing age is? Barrera is only 33, but he is very old boxing wise because he has 69 fights. Duran already had 72 professional fights (71-1)when he beat a 24 year old, 27-0, champ in Leonard. At lightweight, Duran was a machine, he would have owned Leonard or Mayweather. Just because he kept fighting till he was 50 with 119 fights total doesn't mean that his losses later in his career meant anything. Because of the extreme number of fights he had, by 30 he was already way past his prime.

wpink1
11-13-2007, 02:04 PM
Gavin...let me educate you son....In june of 1980 the Duran was so called in the best shape of his life..and moved up and beat Ray leonard by 4 points over 3 scorecards in a fight that Ray leonard chose not to utilize his greatest attributes, boxing, movement, and speed. I challenge you to point out one place in that fight where Duran "FORCED" Ray leonard to go toe to toe, or cut off the ring etc. Now that does not minimize Durans accomplishment, it simply points out that Styles makes fights, especially when you are dealing with fighters the level of a Duran, Leoanrd, Hagler etc. Ray fought the wrong style that night and barely lost.

Move forward to New Orleans 5 months later I guess he got old by then. He also has no excuse he knew the date as did Ray, and both signed the contract. it was the same Duran, that came into that fight as in June. Duran fans sit back and want to minimize every fighter that ever beat him. However, Duran always blows up between fights, this is nothing new. He blew up as a lightweight and had to get down to 135. Now he only has to get down to 147. Besides he is a professional fighter who pocketed millions of dollars. His job was to come into the fight in top shape. You dont hear anyone ever whinning about Leonard having the flu one week before the 1st fight do you. It is true he did and there was questions if the fight was going to go on as planned. No..the issue is Duran could not deal with ray when he boxed him. In rounds 5-7 of the 1st fight which Duran lost on all cards.. Leonard used a little movement and kept the fight in the middle of the ring, and easily outboxed Duran. Go look for yourself. Duran even got made that night and started Mocking Ray. Go to YOU Tube and look for yourself.

So your stament Duran was a machine....Hmmm list the great fighters he beat at Lightweight and compare them to the fighters ray beat at Welterweight. Hmmmmmm Also keep in mind Duran lost to Dejesus at Lightweight to, and was dropped in the 2nd fight too. Go on list the facts my friend.

Now as for the Mayweather Duran comparison. I have Mayweather easily beating Duran at lightweight, as you saw what happened when Duran moved up and faced a boxer, who was not as good defensivly as Mayweather was. At light weight Mayweather has more power than he does at Welterwieght, (mayweather) and more speed, and was a more aggressive fighter ( As Correles). You think other fighters may have given Duran some issues, wait till you see what he would do vs a Prime Mayweather.

Learn boxing Gavin....It is not always who is the roughest toughest. It many of times comes down to the style that the fight takes, and we see what duran does when forced ot box. He gets frusterated, and quits!

Finally for you comparison about the machine of Duran. Hmmm at lightweight he was a very very good fighter, a great fighter. However, he didnt beat great fighters at Lightweight. He beat good fighters some very good fighters, but not a Beneitz, or a Hearns.... Now lets evaluate factually Duran. He moved up at 29, no amateur career... Mayweather moved up at 28-29 a very long amateur career. Go to Box Rec... the names on Durans Resume is a joke for the most part. fighters with losing records, even after he became a champ. Alviro Rojas 3-4, Bernardo Diaz 1-4...Ezequiel Obando 0-3...and there are many many others. Now Box rec makes a disclaimer that the complete records may not always be available. Ok we have to factor that in. However the fact remains that these quality of fighters...ARE BUMS!!!!!! You let Mayweather fight hmmmmm you let Mayweather face Sergio Martinez and he would get publicly destroyed by fans all over saying he is fighting bums. Do you know who Sergio Martinez is? He is the 3rd ranked Super Welterweight champion of the world...I guarantee you that he is more highly ranked, has a better record etc...than most of the fighters that Duran faced at Lightweight and built up that record on. Go look for yourself! Yes Duran gets a lot of praise for dominating the Lightweights for the 70's and having a tremendous record there, but the quality of his wins only took a dramatic rise after he beat Ray Leoanrd, IN A FIGHT THAT RAY LEONARD CHOSE NOT TO BOX, USE MOVEMENT OR SPEED". Had ray boxed the first night, I think we have an entire different rating of Duran, at least in the top pound per pound discussions. Hell Hopkins controlled the middleweight for a long time too, but prior to his retiring he was highly criticised for not beating anyone of substance. Now he has came back and beaten Winky Wright and Tarver which helps.

Finall fact about Duran...he moves up and gets repeatedly whipped before the age of 34. Mayweather moved up and is still undefeated. No Maywether has not faced a Leonard, hearns,Hagler...So quality of fights still is on Durans side in comparison to Mayweather, but Duran lost almost all those fights, so we should not give him too much praise for moving up and losing. Tell us all what is his record vs Dejesus, Leonard, hearns, hagler, Benitez ?

Now compare leonards record vs Norris, hagler, Hearns, Benetiz, Duran, Kalule.

Now compare Mayweather record, vs Correles, DlH, Judah...and he still has some work to do...IMO before we can rank him up with a Duran pund per pound. He has to beat Hatton, Cotto (unfortunately Mosley lost)....But the fact is he has moved up just as Duran did and he has not gotten Ko'd, no losses and no excuses which is what we hear everytime Duran lost.

Not focused - Dejesus
wrong Diet- not focuse- cramps, diarreah - Leonard
No focused - hearns,
Too old - Hagler
not focused - benitez.

How about hmmm duran may not have been as dominant as everyone thinks he was when you look at the best wins at lightweight ws Dejesus, buchanon, Kobyachi, Marcel. Hmmmmm then he losses all before age of 34 these fights. And gavin if your going to give Duran a pass because you think 33 is old, the what about Roy Jones who never lost )(except for dq) before 35, or Ray leonard who came back at age 32-33 and beat hagler, or others. Give duran the same set of rules that you give others, and factor in no Amateur career, so many of the 1st 20 + fights when theere were no trainers,,,hmmmmm factor that in too.

wpink1
11-13-2007, 02:22 PM
Also if your not going to look at durans fights after age 30...then what top fighters did he ever beat. He beat Leonard and we know about that fight, then you have to factor in he quit in the rematch...he lost to Dejesuse the 1st time then brually beat him the next 2. Lets see the top fighters duran beat.

Leoanrd....1-2 record
Esteban Dejesus....2-1 record - good win
Kobayashi (his record at the time 61-9-4)
Ernesto Marcil (24-2-1) who had losses to Miguel Riasoc 7-0 and Augustin Cedeno 6-11-4...Wow Marcil was great!
Ken Buchanon-Good Win
Barkly - great upset win
Moore - great upset win...very green fighter.


Now besides Leonard name one who is listed in the top 100 all time list pound per pound fighters.

Leonard beat 3-4 (depending on where you rank Benitez) in the top 40 pound per pound list that are generally accepted across biases,,etc.

So help me understand on what measurement besides he beat all these bums at Lightweight is Duran Soooo dominant!

Jim Jeffries
11-14-2007, 01:27 AM
Gavin...let me educate you son..... There appeared to be a book's worth of meaningless drivel in your post, but I quit reading after this.

wpink1
11-14-2007, 05:21 AM
Gavin it appears your not educated on boxing enough to deal with it. Some people post just because the like boxing and post there opininon. which is their right and fun, some post becuz they have meaningful news and want to share...Some know boxing and post from an educated stance..then there are those that simply just get on chat rooms and through up unsubstantiated .."bandwagon " riding with the popular myth type of stuff, that brings laughter from anyone who knows boxing.

Example. ...Floyd Mayweather is a coward...Hmmm for anyone to call a boxer risking his life a coward...anyone sitting in the comfort of their home on a computer behind a firewall,,typing tuff stuff....hmmmm

Your position that Duran would have owned Leonard or Mayweather at Lightweight is respected...much respect for that opinion. I differ, as I boxed before, and I know what throwing a different style does to anyone. Leonard boxed Durans head off in the 2nd fight. I actually had Ray winning the 1st fight, just like I had Mosly wnning this past weekend. However it was Durans crowd, Durans style of fight, and Duran won the ring mental games, and the Ring Generalship, regardless of how Ray fought it was Durans style of fight, and many including "possibly" yourself gave durans rounds based on Leonard had his back to the ropes,,,,Sort of like i did Mosley vs Cotto..So I admit being on the ropes hurs and someone being active against you, gives at least the impression that the other boxer is getting the best of you, most times. If you saw Benitez vs Palimino Wow.....However, when I turn off the volume and focus on the action...I have Ray winning that fight very very close..rounds 1 I gave to Ray which none of the judges did, and round 12 was very close. If you remember one judge scored most of those rounds a draw,,,I can only concur that a lot of those rounds Duran or Ray would start off strong, then the other would come back..especially after round 7..

Btw..I think Leonard and Mayweather style would always beat Duran at anyweight, just like boxing period frusterated hagler. Duran himself made a young Hagler, a Hagler that would have destroyed duran had he tryed to fight him like he did Leonard in Montreal...Duran made hagler box, lead, and used subtle movement to make it a close fight.

Leonard could not and will not ever be able to outbox a Tommy Hearns. Hearns at welterweight is too big, fast enough, has way too much reach, and in boxing you do not want to be on the end of his right hand or left hook...Therefore the only way a Leonard could outfight Hearns is simply zap his eneryg early on, pick his spots and shots...then pour it on late.. It is funny how many people who do not know boxing get on chat rooms and say garbage with out any intelligent backing of thier position and say stuff like Hearns was whipping Ray, hearns was outboxing Ray..etc...Well DuH,,,when have you ever seen hearns outboxed? What was Ray's strategy? Have you ever seen a much short man, outbox a tall fast fighter with a great jab?

Or the best most popular false myth out, Aaron Pryor use to beat Leonard in sparring, he even knocked ray down. FAlSE. I have sparred with a fellow Jimmie Matz who was often brought in by leonards camp early on when Ray was learning how to imploy power in his shots, or had a fight vs a bigger man. Jimmie was there when Pryor and him used to spar, even when Howard Davis and Ray sparred.once. He has no reason to lie, and even Pryor "himself" said ray got the best of him. Wow the myths started from 2 interviews, one where ray was approache by Pryor and asked to fight, and ray said quote "Aaron wants to fight me, you knock not knocked as if they had already boxed and this happened, he said you knock (action verbtense meaning to describe something currently happening) me down, I knock you down. That is where the false myth of Aaron Pryor knocking ray came from. and there was a guy from Aaron camp who said Aaron would give Ray a working over. Hmmm might funny when Aaron was asked about Ray twice, once he said Ray knows me, and the other time he said Yes Ray used to get the best of me in sparring, but I got in some lumps too.

I just brought all that up, because in this debate about duran, many state he is a god, but when the qualitky of his career is tested vs a Leonard hes wins were not against better fighters, and Duran fans do two things to try to discredit Leonard and others. They say, Duran was old when he lost to leonard and others,,way past is prime..,...Hmmmm So at age 29 coming off the best showing of your career in 5 months when you get your butt handed to you, all of a sudden your old! Hmmmm. Also Duran was past his prime. I will agree he was past his most effective weight, but Duran did not have a amateur career so he did not have any wear an tear from those fights and training, Leonard, Mayweather, Dlh, and other did. Leonard had 150 amateur fights...My point is Duran was not past his prime. He may have lost focus, and was in against bigger men, that can withstand that brutal style of attack he tried,and thus he became more of a boxer hearns, benitez, hagler. and when you fight bigger men that can generally withstand your punches you have to have something else...That is for every boxer,,,Duran included. That is what happened to Duran. I agree at Lightweight he was an all time great, but IMO Mayweather especially Mayweather who is not a great as ray, but had almost equal hand and foot speed pound per pound as lightweight, had better defense and would not go toe to toe with Duran....I think he would eat Durans lunch at lightweight, and Leonard beats duran anytime he wants to if he boxes....

Gavin its not meaningless, your just dealing with someone who knows boxing, and can support it with factual information including records that show the quality of Durans Lightweight resume vs Leonards at Welter.

BennyST
11-14-2007, 08:37 AM
Gavin it appears your not educated on boxing enough to deal with it. Some people post just because the like boxing and post there opininon. which is their right and fun, some post becuz they have meaningful news and want to share...Some know boxing and post from an educated stance..then there are those that simply just get on chat rooms and through up unsubstantiated .."bandwagon " riding with the popular myth type of stuff, that brings laughter from anyone who knows boxing.

Example. ...Floyd Mayweather is a coward...Hmmm for anyone to call a boxer risking his life a coward...anyone sitting in the comfort of their home on a computer behind a firewall,,typing tuff stuff....hmmmm

Your position that Duran would have owned Leonard or Mayweather at Lightweight is respected...much respect for that opinion. I differ, as I boxed before, and I know what throwing a different style does to anyone. Leonard boxed Durans head off in the 2nd fight. I actually had Ray winning the 1st fight, just like I had Mosly wnning this past weekend. However it was Durans crowd, Durans style of fight, and Duran won the ring mental games, and the Ring Generalship, regardless of how Ray fought it was Durans style of fight, and many including "possibly" yourself gave durans rounds based on Leonard had his back to the ropes,,,,Sort of like i did Mosley vs Cotto..So I admit being on the ropes hurs and someone being active against you, gives at least the impression that the other boxer is getting the best of you, most times. If you saw Benitez vs Palimino Wow.....However, when I turn off the volume and focus on the action...I have Ray winning that fight very very close..rounds 1 I gave to Ray which none of the judges did, and round 12 was very close. If you remember one judge scored most of those rounds a draw,,,I can only concur that a lot of those rounds Duran or Ray would start off strong, then the other would come back..especially after round 7..

Btw..I think Leonard and Mayweather style would always beat Duran at anyweight, just like boxing period frusterated hagler. Duran himself made a young Hagler, a Hagler that would have destroyed duran had he tryed to fight him like he did Leonard in Montreal...Duran made hagler box, lead, and used subtle movement to make it a close fight.

Leonard could not and will not ever be able to outbox a Tommy Hearns. Hearns at welterweight is too big, fast enough, has way too much reach, and in boxing you do not want to be on the end of his right hand or left hook...Therefore the only way a Leonard could outfight Hearns is simply zap his eneryg early on, pick his spots and shots...then pour it on late.. It is funny how many people who do not know boxing get on chat rooms and say garbage with out any intelligent backing of thier position and say stuff like Hearns was whipping Ray, hearns was outboxing Ray..etc...Well DuH,,,when have you ever seen hearns outboxed? What was Ray's strategy? Have you ever seen a much short man, outbox a tall fast fighter with a great jab?

Or the best most popular false myth out, Aaron Pryor use to beat Leonard in sparring, he even knocked ray down. FAlSE. I have sparred with a fellow Jimmie Matz who was often brought in by leonards camp early on when Ray was learning how to imploy power in his shots, or had a fight vs a bigger man. Jimmie was there when Pryor and him used to spar, even when Howard Davis and Ray sparred.once. He has no reason to lie, and even Pryor "himself" said ray got the best of him. Wow the myths started from 2 interviews, one where ray was approache by Pryor and asked to fight, and ray said quote "Aaron wants to fight me, you knock not knocked as if they had already boxed and this happened, he said you knock (action verbtense meaning to describe something currently happening) me down, I knock you down. That is where the false myth of Aaron Pryor knocking ray came from. and there was a guy from Aaron camp who said Aaron would give Ray a working over. Hmmm might funny when Aaron was asked about Ray twice, once he said Ray knows me, and the other time he said Yes Ray used to get the best of me in sparring, but I got in some lumps too.

I just brought all that up, because in this debate about duran, many state he is a god, but when the qualitky of his career is tested vs a Leonard hes wins were not against better fighters, and Duran fans do two things to try to discredit Leonard and others. They say, Duran was old when he lost to leonard and others,,way past is prime..,...Hmmmm So at age 29 coming off the best showing of your career in 5 months when you get your butt handed to you, all of a sudden your old! Hmmmm. Also Duran was past his prime. I will agree he was past his most effective weight, but Duran did not have a amateur career so he did not have any wear an tear from those fights and training, Leonard, Mayweather, Dlh, and other did. Leonard had 150 amateur fights...My point is Duran was not past his prime. He may have lost focus, and was in against bigger men, that can withstand that brutal style of attack he tried,and thus he became more of a boxer hearns, benitez, hagler. and when you fight bigger men that can generally withstand your punches you have to have something else...That is for every boxer,,,Duran included. That is what happened to Duran. I agree at Lightweight he was an all time great, but IMO Mayweather especially Mayweather who is not a great as ray, but had almost equal hand and foot speed pound per pound as lightweight, had better defense and would not go toe to toe with Duran....I think he would eat Durans lunch at lightweight, and Leonard beats duran anytime he wants to if he boxes....

Gavin its not meaningless, your just dealing with someone who knows boxing, and can support it with factual information including records that show the quality of Durans Lightweight resume vs Leonards at Welter.


The fact you had Leonard winning the first fight means you lose every ounce of respect I might of had while reading your posts. If you had Leonard winning you're a Duran hater...pure and simple. It is impossible to have had Leonard winning the first unless you have a love affair with him. Brainless.

As for no resume at lightweight I would happily put forward it was a deal greater than the resume of Mayweather you are putting forward. Judah: A spent force who can't fight past 3 or 4 rounds with any focus. Ko'd in last fight by a bum...Wow. DLH: old promoter well above natural weight with one fight in last 2 years (can't remember if it was 1 or 2) having lost 2 of last 4 I believe. DLH was done years before that anyway. Who else? Baldomir? Yeah...

I think you forget some names on Durans record who would whip most of the guys on Mayweathers. Leonard, Buchanan, De Jesus, Lampkin, Palomino, Kobayashi, Suzuki, Vilomar Fernandez, Edwin Viruet.

Like it or not, Duran was not the same fighter in the second fight. Watch any interview with Leonard on this subject. He will say the same thing. That Duran was weaker, slower, not as aggressive nor had the movement of the first fight. Watch the first fight again. Ray can't even land on Duran most of fight or did you forget that in your great knowledge.

People forget that Duran was very fast at lightweight, not a slow plodding pressure brawler like you seem to think as well as a master of defense himself. Anyway, I'm done. Going to bed. You say you don't even like Mayweather...you sound like the biggest Mayweather, Leonard nuthugger here. Or just a Duran hater...boring.

Jim Jeffries
11-14-2007, 10:48 AM
Gavin it appears your not educated on boxing enough to deal with it.. I actually had Ray winning the 1st fight, just like I had Mosly wnning this past weekend.

Further proof how little about boxing you really know.:nonono:

wpink1
11-14-2007, 06:22 PM
Bennyst....Your synopsis of the 2nd fight is false, garbage and just like a Duran nuthugger. I never like to call names but since you want act childish then so be it.

The first fight hmmmm you say that it it irrational to think that Leonard won. Hmmmmm Lets see the judges in a pro duran crowd scored it 1 point win for duran, 1 point win for duran, 2 point win for duran. Hmmmm If you know the fight, you know that all scored the 1st the first round for Duran. had they scored it for leonard a round in which duran did not land one single punch to the head, Leonard wins this fight...that you say is unconcievable that he wins. I suggest you get your facts straight. You may be of the opinion Duran, won, and I am of a different opininion, however the judges had it as close as you could have it..1 single round reversed.....Get your facts straight.

As for Duran being weak and whatever the 2nd fight. That is a bunch of escuses that durans fans always make. Duran simply had to fight a diffeent style. He tried to rush in. etc...but this time Ray moved and boxed. You want to make it like Duran was a god. He quit when he realized that Leonard was simply able to outbox him. The ONLY reason he won the 1st time was because leonard lost the mental part of the fight and fought durans fight. Get your facts straight. He knew when the fight was scheduled he was just as strong, etc...Only thing is he faced a better ray, who was stronger. If you want to look at size, you will see in the 1st fight ray was much smaller. Get the Autobiography of Duran he says in there he was in top shape...In his own autobiography. I said before the fight he was in the best shape of his life an was going to Leonard. I know this is all hype, but the fact is when ray boxed him he could not adapt.


The names you said I forget...I mentioned and said they were good names ...but not Hearns, Hagler, etc..... get yoru facts straight.

wpink1
11-14-2007, 06:56 PM
listen I have no issues w/ Duran.. He is clearly a top fight all time. However he had challenges too. he lost 2 Dejesus @ lightweight. Yes he revenged that fight, however u don't hear anyone saying that Dejesus was weakened not the same...etc. But u hear that Duran was not focused the 1st fight. Same w/ leonard. Anyone that ignores the clear & simple fact that Ray willingly "shelved " his boxing skills..to go toe 2 toe. No excuse..Duran won..but the style of fight was wrong 4 leonard. Also ray was sickened w/ the flu 1 week b4 the fight...but u don't hear those escuses... Finally Duran won by 4 points between 3 cards... nowhere near a beating as many on here try 2 say.

Fight 2 duran was the same...only he had 2 make weight he0wsnt weak..that was false...get his own autobiagrphy...he said....after all these years..the truthis he never said no mas.... the truthis he was furusterated cuz ray would not fight him toe 2 toe..he sai n spanish..i m not fighting this clown... but cosell came up w/ the no mas statement.. he was in tip top shape... no cramps...just frusteration... I suggest u all read wjat duran himself had 2 say..before making up stuff about ask ray..Ray said many times..example ABC interview after the fight w/ duran via satellite... he told the world it was the same duran...people making excuses....he saw a more focused & stringer n the upper body ray.....it is all on youtube....please check ur facts b4 arguing

them_apples
11-14-2007, 07:19 PM
Tyson was the biggest name in the 80's yet he get's number 12? what are you a hater?

Jim Jeffries
11-14-2007, 09:13 PM
Tyson was the biggest name in the 80's yet he get's number 12? what are you a hater?

I suppose you would have him first right?:nonono:

them_apples
11-14-2007, 09:25 PM
I suppose you would have him first right?:nonono:

no Lennox Lewis would be first, if he counts..then it's a tie between holyfield and Tyson.., tyson being the bigger name..so i'd prob put him at number 2..

Jim Jeffries
11-14-2007, 09:28 PM
no Lennox Lewis would be first, if he counts..then it's a tie between holyfield and Tyson.., tyson being the bigger name..so i'd prob put him at number 2..

Perhaps if the list was only about heavyweights, but Holyfield had a bigger and better career than Tyson.

them_apples
11-14-2007, 10:19 PM
Holyfield had a better career, but I'd still pick Tyson if the fight had happened in the 80's.

Hell, If Tyson wasn't stupid i'd pick him in the second fight to, but he had to go bite Holyfields ear.

Jim Jeffries
11-14-2007, 11:34 PM
Holyfield had a better career, but I'd still pick Tyson if the fight had happened in the 80's.

Hell, If Tyson wasn't stupid i'd pick him in the second fight to, but he had to go bite Holyfields ear.

I thought this was about greatest fighters since 1985, not "who could beat who?"

BennyST
11-17-2007, 04:45 AM
Bennyst....Your synopsis of the 2nd fight is false, garbage and just like a Duran nuthugger. I never like to call names but since you want act childish then so be it.

The first fight hmmmm you say that it it irrational to think that Leonard won. Hmmmmm Lets see the judges in a pro duran crowd scored it 1 point win for duran, 1 point win for duran, 2 point win for duran. Hmmmm If you know the fight, you know that all scored the 1st the first round for Duran. had they scored it for leonard a round in which duran did not land one single punch to the head, Leonard wins this fight...that you say is unconcievable that he wins. I suggest you get your facts straight. You may be of the opinion Duran, won, and I am of a different opininion, however the judges had it as close as you could have it..1 single round reversed.....Get your facts straight.

As for Duran being weak and whatever the 2nd fight. That is a bunch of escuses that durans fans always make. Duran simply had to fight a diffeent style. He tried to rush in. etc...but this time Ray moved and boxed. You want to make it like Duran was a god. He quit when he realized that Leonard was simply able to outbox him. The ONLY reason he won the 1st time was because leonard lost the mental part of the fight and fought durans fight. Get your facts straight. He knew when the fight was scheduled he was just as strong, etc...Only thing is he faced a better ray, who was stronger. If you want to look at size, you will see in the 1st fight ray was much smaller. Get the Autobiography of Duran he says in there he was in top shape...In his own autobiography. I said before the fight he was in the best shape of his life an was going to Leonard. I know this is all hype, but the fact is when ray boxed him he could not adapt.


The names you said I forget...I mentioned and said they were good names ...but not Hearns, Hagler, etc..... get yoru facts straight.


Pink son....What do the judges scoring have to do with anything? You believe the judges are right in every fight? So you have the second Leonard Hearns fight a draw just like the judges did? We all know in boxing, judges scores often mean less than nothing and very often don't reflect accurately the actual fight they saw.

Hey I'm not pretending that Duran was ever going to win the second fight (whether it was the Duran from Montreal or not) but if you can't see it was not the same Duran that was in the first fight then you are blinded. If a fighter comes in looking ripped and toned he did some work in the gym. If that same fighter comes in at the same weight but looking softer and rounder he didn't do the right work. It's simple. If you can see that Ray was bigger but can't see that Duran was softer...double standards. Ray is your god like you seem to think Duran is mine.

Get your facts straight, get your facts straight...thanks pink. I will. Duran won the first fight, Leonard won the second. The fact is you're just as blind as you make me out to be. You say Leonard would of won had he boxed, I say Duran would of won had he come in, in shape. Neither did and the rest is history. This argument is utterly pointless. We could go back and forth with this rubbish for years as people before us have already done.

wpink1
11-17-2007, 09:05 AM
BennyST I am going by Durans own autobioagraphy where he stats that there where a lot of myths about him and he set the record straight. It is common knowledge that Duran Partied hard the 1st month or so after winning the first fight...However Duran fans try to act as if he is the only one who does this. Duran always ballonned between fights, that is one of the reasons why Ray leonard and his camp pushed for an immediate fight, however what you dont hear from Duran fanz is that Duran He trained hard for this fight too got in shape down to 147, and my friend was saying before the fight he was in the best shape ever, in BETTER than in montreal because this time he wanted to ko Leonard. Here a couple of facts that you a Duran supporter should know when debating..These are Durans own admissions listed in THE HANDS OF STONE...his autobiagraphy.

1. First fight he started training on 4/13 for a June 6 fight. Had several situations with training camp that caused the fight almost to be called on. One he had irregular heart beats, and had to suspend training for this several times. Pages 184-185
2. Had to lose about 33 pounds in the 7 week period, this was normal for him as it was more of a struggle to get down to 135, thus it was muc easier.
3. Duran gets as big as a house between all of his fights Page 185.
4. After seeing Duran against boxers, Arcel was very focused on which referee that was going to be chosen.. "The one thing I fear is that the referee will not let Duran fight on the inside, if that happens there is no way my man can beat Leonard as Duran will not be able to fight his fight and he can not outbox Ray",,the big question is Ray's stamina and endurance after the 6th and 7th rounds. Page 186-187

Leonard as was confirmed by Dundee and reported by the new york times, may have to cancel the fight as he has been bedridden with the flu roughly one week for he is to leave to land in Canada. Durans camp rejoiced once they got word that Ray intended to go ahead with the fight as, they knew he would be somewhat weaker and that stamina would definatly play a much larger role in this fight.

I listed this to show you How Duran was before the 1st fight and how issues with other fighters, never seem to be mentioned as an excuse. You never hear Leonard using this fact at all, he simply says he lost the mind game, Duran beat him before the fight when they had several verbal and 1 reported physical altercation (pg 177) that got inside Rays head and he wanted to knock duran out,not a decision. He wanted to beat Duran at his own game.

Fight 2. Durans own admissions.....

Duran started Training and had to lose from 185 down to 147..He looked pudgy on 10/2 for the Larry Holmes-Ali fight.....Duran had to go through Hell to lose weight. However as usual he made weight!

3 Weeks before the fight, duran and his camp were claiming this is a training camp to end clowns...Duran will knock him out..but that Ray is a lovable guy and he would rather his son grow up to be just like him....to evoke laughter at the press conference in New York.

There was a awful lot of partying even danced with 2 young girls from Leonards camp..however Duran always did this, as he was known for partying hard in any town he visited. Duran in essence was a town favorite, people loved it when he came to town, vs a more cautios Leonard, that is why the Canadian fans loved him, Durans was in Montreal a week before Ray partying with the fans winning them over. This completly blindsided Ray and his camp as they THOUGHT that ray would be the overwhelming favorite, coming back to a place where he won the gold. The fans for the first time in Ray's career were more for his opponent.

Duran quit not because he had cramps, or unconditioned et...He quit because in his own words...and from Eleta "Loenard was dancing around and making fun of him,mocking him. NO, he just said he wasn't going to fight with this clown anymore". Leonard did not want to fight, and he didnt want to chase him.

In all fairness there were some pages that also claimed that duran partyied a bit harder than before and that he was not conditioned as well as he should have been, and that no he didnt have cramps but he ate a big breakfast as a reward for him getting down in shape. But again, he always did that. Nothing new.

So I merely ask why the excuses for Duran. Leonard did not make em. Duran was the same fighter, went through the same challenges in training, he simply COULD NOT DEAL WITH RAY LEONARD STYLE.. This was even his camps own adimission before the 1st fight, and realized that they would have to make it a inside fight. If Ray boxes he wins.. Plain and simple.

Naps
09-01-2008, 01:09 PM
haha the guy who dogs fight after fight and should have had his belt taken away atleast a year ago! Haha and sorry Lewis was horrible, the guy couldnt fight had a bum chin and his only advatage was his size. You have Hearns on there but where's Gatti a great fight non the less should have been ahead of Mayorga atleast!

You don't watch mush boxing do you?

He was very skilled technically, and had a very very good chin.

The Iron Man
09-01-2008, 02:21 PM
I think tyson is way to low aswell, Lewis should be higher - both should be top 5. Holyfield doesnt deserve the number one spot either.

wpink1
09-01-2008, 04:17 PM
Bets fighters since 1985

In order....

Jones,
Whitacker,
Mayweather,
chavez
Tyson
Lewis
Holyfield
Pacquio
Mosley
Trinidad
DLH
Hopkins
Toney
Joe C

The Iron Man
09-01-2008, 05:00 PM
Mayweather shouldnt be in the top 5. I rate Toney, Lewis, Tyson, RJJ, Holyfield, Hopkins, Pacquio, Trinidad, Chavez, whitacker all above him.
And good arguments for the others.
Thinking about it, if its on skill then he would be more highly rated. But if everthing is taken to account then 10th 11th would be more like his position.

wpink1
09-01-2008, 05:09 PM
Mayweather shouldnt be in the top 5. I rate Toney, Lewis, Tyson, RJJ, Holyfield, Hopkins, Pacquio, Trinidad, Chavez, whitacker all above him.
And good arguments for the others.
Thinking about it, if its on skill then he would be more highly rated. But if everthing is taken to account then 10th 11th would be more like his position.


That is your opinion. IMO Mayweather as much as I dislike him is a great figher. He has beaten other great fighters, in Corrales, Castillo and was awesom at 135. At 147 he has beaten other good fighters, judah, Baldomir, Hattn, Dlh. No he is not a all time top 10, nor a all time top Welter, and yes he should fight margerito, williams, cotto amongst others. However, who else currently boxing besides Jones, and Pacquio has moved up successfully 15 pounds or more, and he is still undefeated. Has great techinal skills as well.

ironalex
09-01-2008, 05:40 PM
The Greatest Fighters Since 1985 by talking boxing
20. Shane Mosley
Shane Mosley makes my list because he was such a dominant and dynamic lightweight. And his title winning performance over Oscar De La Hoya in 2000 was special as well. The reason he doesn’t make it higher is because of his losses to Winky Wright and Vernon Forrest

19. Ricardo Lopez
Ricardo was a brilliant technician. He really had no weakness. I would have ranked him higher, But he never really had a career defining performance.

18. Azumah Nelson
There will never be another Professor. He was a great boxer, and he knew when to go in for the kill. Who could forget his destructive victory over an excellent Jeff Fenech in their 2nd fight?

17. Erik Morales
The man has never given us a bad fight. He owns wins over fighters like Marco Antonio Barrera, Junior Jones, and Manny Pacquiao. He was perhaps the most exciting fighter of the last 20 years.

16. Marco Antonio Barrera
Barrera is a brilliant prizefighter; his 2 wins over Morales demonstrate his greatness. And nobody will forget his dominating performance over The Prince Naseem Hamed.

15. Kosta Tszyu
Tszyu is one of the most dominating Jr. Welterweight’s of the last 20 years. His laser like right hand is one of boxing best punches. The win that defined his career was his concussing knockout over current undisputed welterweight champion Zab Judah.

14. Meldrick Taylor
Experts would say I have Meldrick way too high...Oh what could have been though, and what a magical fighter he was before he got in there with Chavez in 1990. Meldrick Taylor had the fastest hands I had ever seen. That includes Sugar Ray Leonard, Roy Jones Jr. and Sugar Shane Mosley among others. He gave us the best fight of the 1990’s with his masterpiece against Julio Cesar Chavez. He was robbed of missing out of an opportunity to finish the fight on his feet that night. And after that his career was never the same.

13. Michael McCallum
Yes the original Body Snatcher. The man was explosive inside the ring. Everybody talks about his body attack. But he was a masterful boxer as well. His win over Donald Curry was an example of his mastery.

12. Mike Tyson
Mike Tyson once was the biggest and baddest man on the planet. He was knocking everybody out. And he became one of the most popular sports figures in the world. In 1990, Buster Douglas knocked him out, in the biggest upset in boxing history. After that he was never the same. He would reclaim his crown, but Evander Holyfield knocked him out again in 1996. He is still a viable PPV fighter only because there are still Tyson die hards out there.

11. James Toney
James “Lights Out” Toney is the fighter every other fighter admires. He is one of the most skillful fighters of the past 20 years, and he is also one of the most accomplished. He would win titles in 3 different weight divisions, and on April 30th of this year he has a chance to be a 4-division champion. His propensity to get out of shape moves him down a little on my list.

10. Lennox Lewis
Lennox never gets his due. He was the best Heavyweight fighter of the 1990’s. He had it all from power to excellent boxing skills. He would have ranked higher had he not been knocked out twice by Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall

9. Sugar Ray Leonard - Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Yeah this may seem a bit low for both of these guys. But we are going from 1985 on, not 1978 on. So this is a good spot for both of these guys. Their 1987 fight was stuff of legend. And Hagler’s victory of Hearns in 1985 was one of the greatest fights in boxing history.

8. Tommy Hearns
Hearns above both of the guys who beat him, you may ask what the heck am I talking about. But remember that Hearns beat Sugar Ray Leonard in 1989, no matter what the judges said. And his victory over Virgil Hill to win the Light Heavyweight crown was stuff of legend.

7. Oscar De La Hoya
Oscar haters are going to be mad at me for this. But Oscar was a legitimate 4-division champion who fought the best fighters of his era. And while doing this he won more then he lost. His combination of speed and grace made him a fan favorite and his Hollywood looks made him a favorite of women fight fans. Regardless of what you think he will go down as a first ballot Hall of Famer.

6. Felix Trinidad
Perhaps the greatest Puerto Rican fighter ever, he has one of the best-left hooks I have ever seen. He is a destructive force, whose relentlessness is 2nd to none. Nobody will forget his crushing win over Fernando Vargas. People should not forget he was one of the greatest welterweights ever as well.

5. Julio Cesar Chavez
The greatest Mexican fighter of all time, to me he was just like Trinidad, except he had a better chin, but not as big a punch. He will be forever remembered for his comeback victory over Meldrick Taylor in 1990. But it was his work at 130 and 135 that made him a legend.

4. Bernard Hopkins
Bernard does everything right, give or take a few bad management decisions. He lives right, he fights right, and he understands the fight game better then any fighter I ever saw. He cares only about winning, and that is what he has done since he won the Middleweight title in 1995. His wins over Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya have defined his career.

3. Roy Jones Jr.
If you had asked me before beginning of last year, I would have told Roy was the best fighter of the past 20 years. He went through his career basically unchallenged, beating great fighters on this list like James Toney, Mike McCallum and Bernard Hopkins. But after his knock out loses to Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson, he has lost some of his luster. But regardless, you can’t take away what the man accomplished. He was the most talented fighter I had ever seen.

2. Pernell Whitaker
Whitaker was the Willie Pep of our generation. He was so good he barely lost any rounds in his prime. In my opinion he is the greatest lightweight of all-time, and he was a damn good welterweight too. He boxed circles around, Azumah Nelson and Julio Cesar Chavez and everybody else. Even when he was way past his prime, he fought a prime Oscar De La Hoya even up. The man was just amazing.

1. Evander Holyfield
The Real Deal was the best fighter of this generation. It is not because of what he did at heavyweight. It was because of what he did at heavyweight and cruiserweight. He destroyed the cruiserweight division, and he went on to become the most exciting heavyweight fighter since Muhammad Ali. Yeah he didn’t win all of his heavyweight title fights, but he won a lot more then he lost. And he pretty much beat every bigger fighter he ever fought, besides Lennox Lewis. For sheer excitement, heart, and passion there will never be another Evander Holyfield.


Honorable Mention:


Winky Wright


Manny Pacquaio


Terry Norris


James “Buddy” McGirt


Riddick Bowe


Virgil Hill


Hector Camacho


Roberto Duran


Iran Barkley


Marlon Starling


Julian Jackson


Gerald McClellan


Floyd Mayweather Jr.


Jeff Fenech


Orlando Canizales


Daniel Zaragoza


Michael Moorer, The Light Heavyweight Version


Michael Carbajal


Humberto Gonzales


Ike Quartey


Fernando Vargas


Michael Nunn


that was one of the worst lists ive seen.

KostyaTszyu44
09-02-2008, 06:13 AM
what a **** list

kostya, and others should be ranked higher and where the **** is roberto duran btw....

hes top 5 p4p all time and he acheived a bit after '85

wpink1
09-02-2008, 08:30 AM
the list was since 1985, duran was not one of the greatest since then.

mcentepede
09-03-2008, 01:06 AM
Everlast is right, kid. You list makes little sense to us. Aaron Pryor would have beaten most of the lighter-weight guys on your list, maybe all of them as he was legendary. Lennox beat Tyson, Holifield, Bowe and all the top Heavyweights during his era, pretty good stats to me. Why he so low? Tyson was undestructible during the last part of 1980's. Why he so low? Hagler was 63-3-2 53 ko's and never looked bad in a fight. Why he so low? Roy Jones got worse after he did the Matrix and fought at Heavyweight. Even then, he still dominated the 1990's with ease. Whittaker and Chavez were great lighter-weight fighters too, and only old age and coke really finished them off. In fact, Pernell vs. Hoya was better than Floyd vs. Hoya, despite an older Pernell at the end of the line.

wpink1
09-03-2008, 01:44 AM
Everlast is right, kid. You list makes little sense to us. Aaron Pryor would have beaten most of the lighter-weight guys on your list, maybe all of them as he was legendary. Lennox beat Tyson, Holifield, Bowe and all the top Heavyweights during his era, pretty good stats to me. Why he so low? Tyson was undestructible during the last part of 1980's. Why he so low? Hagler was 63-3-2 53 ko's and never looked bad in a fight. Why he so low? Roy Jones got worse after he did the Matrix and fought at Heavyweight. Even then, he still dominated the 1990's with ease. Whittaker and Chavez were great lighter-weight fighters too, and only old age and coke really finished them off. In fact, Pernell vs. Hoya was better than Floyd vs. Hoya, despite an older Pernell at the end of the line.

Mcentepede....I agree with most of your post..However, who has Pryor ever beat that was peak and at their most effective weight, otherwise did not move up to their 4th class to fight him?

Pryor was a great great wild fild fighter, who had so mny problems with balacne and leaving himself wide open, that had it hve been a mayweather, leoanrd, Duran, chavez, anyone of these fighters fighting him that night he fought arguello he would have been slaughtered. Go back and look at how many clean shots Arguello landed on him, and it simply did not do the damage it would have done had say this fight been at Arguellos most effective weght. Let Duran had of landed those shots, this figt many forgot that the 1st one was anyones fight going into the last 2-3 rounds.

Pryor always gets a pass from peopel simply because he was energeitic, fearloess, and brutal. So was Liston and look what happened to him when he fought a great boxer that was not too little (arguello) or past their prime,,way past their prime with 100 fights already 10 losses at the time they fought (cervantes). Tyson was too. Look at how dominante the prince seemed vs most avg to inferior foes. You test a fighter vs what he does vs prime, great fighters who generally are a thier most effective weight. Everyone looks great against overmatced opponents.

For chirst sakes, please judge Aaron by his top top wins.....0

BennyST
09-04-2008, 05:15 AM
what a **** list

kostya, and others should be ranked higher and where the **** is roberto duran btw....

hes top 5 p4p all time and he acheived a bit after '85

Tszyu wasn't ranked too badly. A little higher would be about right, but there have been some amazing fighters since '85. Duran did not achieve nearly enough after that to be one of the top top guys. What he achieved capped off his already stellar career and just put icing on the top as he was so old but still beating great young champs etc, but after '85 he was not one of the top twenty, at least not with the fighters that came after and did so much. If he started his career in '85 and did what he had done then he would be number one, but he didn't.

It's an odd list overall, but hey, it's created a lot of discussion, which is good.

Oh, and to the guy that said something about Mayorga being on it, he is not. I think you are mistaken about Ricardo Lopez being Mayorga.

Scary
09-06-2008, 01:09 AM
Why the hell isn't Calzaghe on that list? Longest reigning champion?

C.Y.
09-10-2008, 04:53 PM
Mayweather shouldnt be in the top 5. I rate Toney, Lewis, Tyson, RJJ, Holyfield, Hopkins, Pacquio, Trinidad, Chavez, whitacker all above him.
And good arguments for the others.
Thinking about it, if its on skill then he would be more highly rated. But if everthing is taken to account then 10th 11th would be more like his position.

idk how you can have tyson, **** or even pacquiao rated in the top 5 and not mayweather.. based on mayweather's skill and accomplishments, you would either have to have him or roy jones in the 1 and 2 top fighters since 85

The Iron Man
09-10-2008, 05:04 PM
Mayweather was not the whole package for me, Skill wise he deserves to up there definatley. But he ducked to many fighters and had to many excuses. Yes he won titles at different weights but he once a section of the division (WBC). He never ruled a weight division and all of his opponents were hand picked.

C.Y.
09-10-2008, 05:22 PM
Mayweather was not the whole package for me, Skill wise he deserves to up there definatley. But he ducked to many fighters and had to many excuses. Yes he won titles at different weights but he once a section of the division (WBC). He never ruled a weight division and all of his opponents were hand picked.

the only fighter he didnt bend over backwards to fight was margarito,, and margarito until recently hasnt been a marquee name or even done anything to garner interest from may to fight him.. who has he ducked? for all the names u may be able to come up with its possible they ducked him or they didnt try to make the fight happen themselves.. it takes 2. he's been the best fighter in every division he has been in. he beat the top guys at 130 and 135.. unfortunately he didnt get to face kostya, but he destroyed gatti - a guy favored to win by many.. at 147 he beat the guys who the media labeled champs of that division by beating judah and baldo, moved up to 154 and beat oscar, then moved back down to beat hatton.. he has wins over castillo twice, corrales, ndou, genaro hernandez, manfredy, corley, jesus chavez.. i mean how can you not have in atleast top 5 fighters since 85? all of his opponents hand picked please.. i mean you do have the right to your opinion so i mean it what it is.. i guess we just disagree

1SILVA
10-27-2008, 03:17 PM
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Roy Jones
4. Pernell Whitaker
5. James Toney
6. Manny Pacquiao
7. Julio Cesar Chavez
8. Lennox Lewis
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Felix Trinidad