This thread is for the Non-Americans only to vote or give a comment. I want to see honestly how the rest of the world views George W. Bush through a poll. So Non-Americans cast a vote and give an opinion.

He does not come across as a very sharp guy, but his crack-down on terrorism is well appreciated in Russia.

Now if he only really did crack down on terrorism. *cough*liar *cough*

Frankly people already thought he was an idiot, and when 9/11 came around he had the support of the entire world to seek and destroy terrorism. Which is why everything went so smoothly when he proposed to look and fight al-quaeda and bin laden in afghanistan.

Iraq on the other hand, he showed what an idiot he really is, he went from world wide support, to none except from the brits. He already had the support he only needed to say please. What did he do... YOUR EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US. One vote away, from UN approval and the nod from the rest of the world, couldnt do things right.

what a retard.

Carry > Bush

This thread is for the Non-Americans only to vote or give a comment. I want to see honestly how the rest of the world views George W. Bush through a poll. So Non-Americans cast a vote and give an opinion.\


....Asking Europeans their take on Bush is like asking the French if they would rather bend over or fight? We know the answer to both questions. One is based on jealousy of the greatest nation on earth and the other is based on historical fact.

he went from world wide support, to none except from the brits.
Correction, From Tony Blair

Correction, From Tony Blair


....And thank god for Tony Blair. A man who stands up for his convictions and doesn't need a public opinion poll to make his choices for him. Hats off to the great Tony Blair!!!

....And thank god for Tony Blair. A man who stands up for his convictions and doesn't need a public opinion poll to make his choices for him. Hats off to the great Tony Blair!!!
calm down! His own decisions about the war were hugly influenced by his fear of upsetting the all powerful USA.

He's not great, nor is he evil, but honestly, its obvious Bush has him by the balls.

Well, in a democracy every country gets what it deserves. That being said I can't judge wether he's the right man for the job since I don't live in America.

My personal opinion is that George W. Bush is the most stupid, most childish and most undeserving president your great country ever had. I totally disagree with his foreign policy. And right now pbds I'm everything but jealous. I wouldn't move to the USA even if they paid me for it.

Lots of people I know think that Bush jr. is a sick freak with perverse beliefs. Since he's the president of the U.S.A. and after attacking Afganisthan lots of people dislike everything that's american. In fact I don't know one single person that actually likes Bush or his governement. Most people believe that the normal american citizen is completly uneducated and ****y.

In my very personal opinion hBush is just a marionette that is being played by your economy. Personally I can't understand why anybody voted for him. But, well, I wouldn't have voted for Kerry or Nader as well. It's sad that a country like the U.S.A. can't give its people more (and better) options.

I'm sorry if I offended someone.

Bush is a joke. Blair is arse licker and a total embarrassment. Sooner he is done ruining this country any more he can, the better since we need a new government fast.

Well, in a democracy every country gets what it deserves. That being said I can't judge wether he's the right man for the job since I don't live in America.

My personal opinion is that George W. Bush is the most stupid, most childish and most undeserving president your great country ever had. I totally disagree with his foreign policy. And right now pbds I'm everything but jealous. I wouldn't move to the USA even if they paid me for it.

Lots of people I know think that Bush jr. is a sick freak with perverse beliefs. Since he's the president of the U.S.A. and after attacking Afganisthan lots of people dislike everything that's american. In fact I don't know one single person that actually likes Bush or his governement. Most people believe that the normal american citizen is completly uneducated and ****y.

In my very personal opinion hBush is just a marionette that is being played by your economy. Personally I can't understand why anybody voted for him. But, well, I wouldn't have voted for Kerry or Nader as well. It's sad that a country like the U.S.A. can't give its people more (and better) options.

I'm sorry if I offended someone.


....That's the problem in a nutshell. You live in a liberal leaning leftist controled media country. When you live in a place like that all you see is the negative slant on the USA. It all stems from jealousy and envy. We attacked Afghanistan? Do you have any idea why we attacked them or why we ran out a terrorist organization? My god I seriously believe all of Europe has their head up ther ass when it comes to global issues. Sometimes I think we should just say "**** all of you" and let nature take it's course and let terrorists develop weapons of mass destruction and turn them loose on your continent. I swear to God that if another Hitler rose to power today he would be revered by Europe and the countries argueing with us to stay out and leave the poor guy alone would be numbered in the thousands. We are the big boys and we call all the shots. Germany's economy, GNP, political, and military power is a joke compared to ours. If we pulled all of our troops out of Germany your economy would collapse. In fact, all of Europe put together can't measure up to our importance or global power. We have liberated more people, given more to charity, and saved more European trash from utter destruction than any country that ever existed. So keep trashing the USA and our President. The next time the **** hits the fan in Europe and we are needed to save everyones ass for the third time then I say we sit this one out. I hope I didn't offend anyone!!!

I think it's ****ing crap that europe and especially france dosen't support US war on terrorism after being saved from German
and Soviet ocupation in two world wars and the cold war. I'm from Sweden by the way.

I think it's ****ing crap that europe and especially france dosen't support US war on terrorism after being saved from German
and Soviet ocupation in two world wars and the cold war. I'm from Sweden by the way.


......Good for you Ivansmama, what the **** is wrong with those people???? Any ideas?

I think it's ****ing crap that europe and especially france dosen't support US war on terrorism after being saved from German
and Soviet ocupation in two world wars and the cold war. I'm from Sweden by the way.

Maybe it was because of the way they went about starting the war on terrorism. I'm not too keen on having terrorists attacking us Brits next (which will probably happen) but Blair's ignorance put us right in the firing line.

I think it's ****ing crap that europe and especially france dosen't support US war on terrorism after being saved from German
and Soviet ocupation in two world wars and the cold war. I'm from Sweden by the way.

I thinks its ****ing crap that they did, only Bush went and ****ed it all up by launching a pre-emptive strike against Iraq without international support, not because they couldnt aquire it, but because bush and his administration felt they didnt need to.

....That's the problem in a nutshell. You live in a liberal leaning leftist controled media country. When you live in a place like that all you see is the negative slant on the USA. It all stems from jealousy and envy. We attacked Afghanistan? Do you have any idea why we attacked them or why we ran out a terrorist organization? My god I seriously believe all of Europe has their head up ther ass when it comes to global issues. Sometimes I think we should just say "**** all of you" and let nature take it's course and let terrorists develop weapons of mass destruction and turn them loose on your continent. I swear to God that if another Hitler rose to power today he would be revered by Europe and the countries argueing with us to stay out and leave the poor guy alone would be numbered in the thousands. We are the big boys and we call all the shots. Germany's economy, GNP, political, and military power is a joke compared to ours. If we pulled all of our troops out of Germany your economy would collapse. In fact, all of Europe put together can't measure up to our importance or global power. We have liberated more people, given more to charity, and saved more European trash from utter destruction than any country that ever existed. So keep trashing the USA and our President. The next time the **** hits the fan in Europe and we are needed to save everyones ass for the third time then I say we sit this one out. I hope I didn't offend anyone!!!


Soviet Union lost >20 mln people in the WWII and inflicted 90% of Nazi casualties in WWII.

France, Hungary, Italy, Romania and other EE countries supplied SS divisions for Nazis to fight in the Russian front.

Economically US is easily the most powerful, but I dunno about saving the most people. Soviet Union paid the dearest price for getting rid of the Nazis.

I am glad US and Russia are allies again, as in WWII.

Soviet Union lost >20 mln people in the WWII and inflicted 90% of Nazi casualties in WWII.

France, Hungary, Italy, Romania and other EE countries supplied SS divisions for Nazis to fight in the Russian front.

Economically US is easily the most powerful, but I dunno about saving the most people. Soviet Union paid the dearest prize for getting rid of the Nazis.

I am glad US and Russia are allies again, as in WWII.


......I hear ya brother, and your the last guy I would have wanted to offend. I think our alliance with Russia could be huge in the future if we can iron out a few things. I think we should keep our Nuclear treaty with the soviet union, but we should both reserve our right to launch a strike on identified terrorist nations if it comes to that. I have a feeling that it's the only thing that will be a deterent in the future. :)

Soviet fought the nazis because they were attacked they wouldn't have cared abit if Germany occupied Western Europe.

Soviet fought the nazis because they were attacked they wouldn't have cared abit if Germany occupied Western Europe.


and you guys (sweeds) did not fight at all

......I hear ya brother, and your the last guy I would have wanted to offend. I think our alliance with Russia could be huge in the future if we can iron out a few things. I think we should keep our Nuclear treaty with the soviet union, but we should both reserve our right to launch a strike on identified terrorist nations if it comes to that. I have a feeling that it's the only thing that will be a deterent in the future. :)


I am sure there will be fewer and fewer differences. Bush has been much nicer to Russia than all of these EE dorks. (or Clinton).

....That's the problem in a nutshell. You live in a liberal leaning leftist controled media country. When you live in a place like that all you see is the negative slant on the USA. It all stems from jealousy and envy. We attacked Afghanistan? Do you have any idea why we attacked them or why we ran out a terrorist organization? My god I seriously believe all of Europe has their head up ther ass when it comes to global issues. Sometimes I think we should just say "**** all of you" and let nature take it's course and let terrorists develop weapons of mass destruction and turn them loose on your continent. I swear to God that if another Hitler rose to power today he would be revered by Europe and the countries argueing with us to stay out and leave the poor guy alone would be numbered in the thousands. We are the big boys and we call all the shots. Germany's economy, GNP, political, and military power is a joke compared to ours. If we pulled all of our troops out of Germany your economy would collapse. In fact, all of Europe put together can't measure up to our importance or global power. We have liberated more people, given more to charity, and saved more European trash from utter destruction than any country that ever existed. So keep trashing the USA and our President. The next time the **** hits the fan in Europe and we are needed to save everyones ass for the third time then I say we sit this one out. I hope I didn't offend anyone!!!

Well, that's a prime example for the kind of amercian behaviour that offends people: uneducated and ****y.

I don't live in a nutshell nor am I influenced by liberal leaning leftist controled media. In fact you are the one who denies reality in favour of some weird patriotic phantasies. I'm not a hater of the U.S.A., I love a lot of things this country stood for and a lot of things you guys gave us, in fact we have this conversation in english. Could you talk to me in German about our government? I doubt it.

As I said America is a great country but nothing more. You're not the world cops, you don't decide what's wrong and what's right. Your opinion isn't more important than the opinions of France, Germany or England. And as much good the U.S.A. gave the world as much bad you gave it as well. It's not only bout Vietnam or Iraq. In fact you never cared about anything but money.

And you're seriously misinformed about our economy. If there'd be some kinda P4P list the U.S.A. wouldn't even be in the Top 20. The weak dollar says it all. The numbers of unemployed people and families in debt are extremly high in the U.S.A. as a 1st World Country.

I'm almost scared of your simplicity. Someone like Hitler doesn't just rise to power. It's a long process. Do you know about the revolution in Germany (in the 38 small countries) in 1848 and why it failed? Do you know under which circumstances Bismarck founded the new Germany? Do you know why Wilhelm the 2nd lead Germany into the 1st World War? Do you know about the "Weimarer Republik" and its problems? Do you know about the "Dolchstoßlegende" and why the end of the 1st WW lead to the 2nd? If you don't you could never judge why someone like Hitler could rose to power. The NSDAP and Germany between 1933-45 can't be judged upon a documentary on the history channel.

Maybe most americans don't know and care much about history because they don't have a great one. Before Columbos (if we dont count the Wikings) put America on the worldmap Europe already had thousands of years full of high cultures and history.

I can't help myself not to laugh at you when you say that all of Europe put together can't measure your importance. America plays an important role in the world for about 100 years. What about the 3000 years before that? And even right now you're only one of the five most important countries. Just because not every country is as ignorant and aggressive in its foreign policy doesn't mean that they could not if they wished to.

And I beg you to finally say "**** all of you" and stop playing cops of the world with a strange cowboy attitude. The U.S.A. and its foreign policy are one of the main reason for the terrorism of these days. You look upon a history of racism and wars and still claim that you have "liberated more people, given more to charity, and saved more European trash from utter destruction than any country that ever existed". If a German, a French or a Englishman would talk like this you'd rightly say that he's a nationalistic fanatic.

I do like the U.S.A., I love american sports, films and entertainment generally. I have friends living there. I'm not anti-american, I just hate this kind of ignorance toward every other country on this planet.

Well, that's a prime example for the kind of amercian behaviour that offends people: uneducated and ****y.

I don't live in a nutshell nor am I influenced by liberal leaning leftist controled media. In fact you are the one who denies reality in favour of some weird patriotic phantasies. I'm not a hater of the U.S.A., I love a lot of things this country stood for and a lot of things you guys gave us, in fact we have this conversation in english. Could you talk to me in German about our government? I doubt it.

As I said America is a great country but nothing more. You're not the world cops, you don't decide what's wrong and what's right. Your opinion isn't more important than the opinions of France, Germany or England. And as much good the U.S.A. gave the world as much bad you gave it as well. It's not only bout Vietnam or Iraq. In fact you never cared about anything but money.

And you're seriously misinformed about our economy. If there'd be some kinda P4P list the U.S.A. wouldn't even be in the Top 20. The weak dollar says it all. The numbers of unemployed people and families in debt are extremly high in the U.S.A. as a 1st World Country.

I'm almost scared of your simplicity. Someone like Hitler doesn't just rise to power. It's a long process. Do you know about the revolution in Germany (in the 38 small countries) in 1848 and why it failed? Do you know under which circumstances Bismarck founded the new Germany? Do you know why Wilhelm the 2nd lead Germany into the 1st World War? Do you know about the "Weimarer Republik" and its problems? Do you know about the "Dolchstoßlegende" and why the end of the 1st WW lead to the 2nd? If you don't you could never judge why someone like Hitler could rose to power. The NSDAP and Germany between 1933-45 can't be judged upon a documentary on the history channel.

Maybe most americans don't know and care much about history because they don't have a great one. Before Columbos (if we dont count the Wikings) put America on the worldmap Europe already had thousands of years full of high cultures and history.

I can't help myself not to laugh at you when you say that all of Europe put together can't measure your importance. America plays an important role in the world for about 100 years. What about the 3000 years before that? And even right now you're only one of the five most important countries. Just because not every country is as ignorant and aggressive in its foreign policy doesn't mean that they could not if they wished to.

And I beg you to finally say "**** all of you" and stop playing cops of the world with a strange cowboy attitude. The U.S.A. and its foreign policy are one of the main reason for the terrorism of these days. You look upon a history of racism and wars and still claim that you have "liberated more people, given more to charity, and saved more European trash from utter destruction than any country that ever existed". If a German, a French or a Englishman would talk like this you'd rightly say that he's a nationalistic fanatic.

I do like the U.S.A., I love american sports, films and entertainment generally. I have friends living there. I'm not anti-american, I just hate this kind of ignorance toward every other country on this planet.

we're not all like pbds, dude. I just choose not to involve myself in these kinds of threads anymore because things get nasty.

Dude,

Americans are very good people.


I do not know why you Dude are so critical.


You have not even been here.

we're not all like pbds, dude. I just choose not to involve myself in these kinds of threads anymore because things get nasty.

I know, I've met lots of Americans with a different point of view. I don't generalize.

And I totally understand why you don't involve in these kinda threads. I don't like to either but sometimes I just have to.

pbds and I have a history. Check out some pre-election and Arafat death-era threads...

Dude,

Americans are very good people.


I do not know why you Dude are so critical.


You have not even been here.

You misunderstood me. I didn't critizice all Amercians I critiziced pbds' opinion.

And one of my uncles lives in the U.S.A., a friend of mine moved there after 9th grade and we had exchanges with amercian schools.

Well, that's a prime example for the kind of amercian behaviour that offends people: uneducated and ****y.

I don't live in a nutshell nor am I influenced by liberal leaning leftist controled media. In fact you are the one who denies reality in favour of some weird patriotic phantasies. I'm not a hater of the U.S.A., I love a lot of things this country stood for and a lot of things you guys gave us, in fact we have this conversation in english. Could you talk to me in German about our government? I doubt it.

As I said America is a great country but nothing more. You're not the world cops, you don't decide what's wrong and what's right. Your opinion isn't more important than the opinions of France, Germany or England. And as much good the U.S.A. gave the world as much bad you gave it as well. It's not only bout Vietnam or Iraq. In fact you never cared about anything but money.

And you're seriously misinformed about our economy. If there'd be some kinda P4P list the U.S.A. wouldn't even be in the Top 20. The weak dollar says it all. The numbers of unemployed people and families in debt are extremly high in the U.S.A. as a 1st World Country.

I'm almost scared of your simplicity. Someone like Hitler doesn't just rise to power. It's a long process. Do you know about the revolution in Germany (in the 38 small countries) in 1848 and why it failed? Do you know under which circumstances Bismarck founded the new Germany? Do you know why Wilhelm the 2nd lead Germany into the 1st World War? Do you know about the "Weimarer Republik" and its problems? Do you know about the "Dolchstoßlegende" and why the end of the 1st WW lead to the 2nd? If you don't you could never judge why someone like Hitler could rose to power. The NSDAP and Germany between 1933-45 can't be judged upon a documentary on the history channel.

Maybe most americans don't know and care much about history because they don't have a great one. Before Columbos (if we dont count the Wikings) put America on the worldmap Europe already had thousands of years full of high cultures and history.

I can't help myself not to laugh at you when you say that all of Europe put together can't measure your importance. America plays an important role in the world for about 100 years. What about the 3000 years before that? And even right now you're only one of the five most important countries. Just because not every country is as ignorant and aggressive in its foreign policy doesn't mean that they could not if they wished to.

And I beg you to finally say "**** all of you" and stop playing cops of the world with a strange cowboy attitude. The U.S.A. and its foreign policy are one of the main reason for the terrorism of these days. You look upon a history of racism and wars and still claim that you have "liberated more people, given more to charity, and saved more European trash from utter destruction than any country that ever existed". If a German, a French or a Englishman would talk like this you'd rightly say that he's a nationalistic fanatic.

I do like the U.S.A., I love american sports, films and entertainment generally. I have friends living there. I'm not anti-american, I just hate this kind of ignorance toward every other country on this planet.


......I'm not gonna let this disolve into a pissing match but I do have a few points to make. First off, the USA is not one of the top five nations. We are the top nation in the world by miles and miles. We are the biggest, baddest, and most important guys on the block and if that sounds ****y then so be it. Our economy is fine and the dollar loss is expected and nothing to be alarmed about. It will even out and it's even a positive for us at this point that it has decreased slightly. Do you realize how much money your economy gets from our troops stationed in Germany. We would criple your smallish economy if we pulled out. The reason you speak and write English so well is that it's more important for eveyone else to speak English than it is for anyone to learn German, Japanese, or any other language. The English people and the english language make the world go round pal. Why else would it be taught as a second language in all of Europe. That alone says it all!! The USA stands for everything that is good and right with the world and we don't have millions a year pouring over our boarders for nothing. Compasion and caring and concern for the world is an interesting concept coming from a nation that stood by and let their own people get cooked in ovens because they had a different religious view. That's just priceless. Of all people who shouldn't cast any stones, Germany is and always will be the last ones who should talk **** about a nation exerting it's power. The approach that most of Europe would take is to bend over for terrorists and give into their demands. What kind of ***** mentality is that? Take Spain for example. They are such ******* it's hilarious. Yeah we are with you in the war on terror 100%. Then they get an attack and they roll over like a poodle. Nice job letting the terrorists run the show. The USA needs to take the gloves off of Israel and let them take matters into their own hands when it comes to the sub human middle easten trash poluting our planet with their foul stench. Now go watch the fight and have a good weekend ya ****er. :)

......Good for you Ivansmama, what the **** is wrong with those people???? Any ideas?

first , there are french special forces in the ISA force who fights talibans in afghanistan so please inform yourself , other countries aree fighting too.

then , who saved you from english occupation ? right , colonel lafayette and his troops , and we are not pulling it out everytime we talk with americans.

and next you said there were weapons of mass destruction in IRAK , and where are they ? there are no weapon in irak. but still more than 100 000 civilians died , and more than 1000 soldiers , why ????

and saddam ' s bass party was an historical enemy of islamists , saddam was a communist , he killed hundreds of religious leaders in irak. and you sold most of irak weapons when you needed someone to protect you from IRAN .


just inform yourself before being so arrogant.

You misunderstood me. I didn't critizice all Amercians I critiziced pbds' opinion.

And one of my uncles lives in the U.S.A., a friend of mine moved there after 9th grade and we had exchanges with amercian schools.


OK, Dude. :)

Friends, screw politics. Why not discuss smth else? :)

I love bush. ;)

He's my buddy.

first , there are french special forces in the ISA force who fights talibans in afghanistan so please inform yourself , other countries aree fighting too.

then , who saved you from english occupation ? right , colonel lafayette and his troops , and we are not pulling it out everytime we talk with americans.

and next you said there were weapons of mass destruction in IRAK , and where are they ? there are no weapon in irak. but still more than 100 000 civilians died , and more than 1000 soldiers , why ????

and saddam ' s bass party was an historical enemy of islamists , saddam was a communist , he killed hundreds of religious leaders in irak. and you sold most of irak weapons when you needed someone to protect you from IRAN .


just inform yourself before being so arrogant.



...The French didn't do dick for us in the revolutionary war. They only jumped in when they saw that we had it won in typical French fashion and it had more to do with their issues with the English than any desire to help us out. As the great General Patton once said "I would rather have a battalion of Germans in front of me than a batalion of French behind me". And yes, I understand that the French lend a couple of guys in Afghanistan. Big ****in deal!!

Hey, I get really nervous when a heavyweight fight comes on(especially involving one of my favorites) and I let it effect me in ways that have nothing to do with any of you guys or your views. I got wayyyyyyy carried away and at this point I'm gonna shut the **** up and get ready for a great fight. Sorry Dude, sorry Tino, and sorry Neils for getting you riled up to. Now lets get ready to rumble!!!!!

......I'm not gonna let this disolve into a pissing match but I do have a few points to make. First off, the USA is not one of the top five nations. We are the top nation in the world by miles and miles. We are the biggest, baddest, and most important guys on the block and if that sounds ****y then so be it. Our economy is fine and the dollar loss is expected and nothing to be alarmed about. It will even out and it's even a positive for us at this point that it has decreased slightly. Do you realize how much money your economy gets from our troops stationed in Germany. We would criple your smallish economy if we pulled out. The reason you speak and write English so well is that it's more important for eveyone else to speak English than it is for anyone to learn German, Japanese, or any other language. The English people and the english language make the world go round pal. Why else would it be taught as a second language in all of Europe. That alone says it all!! The USA stands for everything that is good and right with the world and we don't have millions a year pouring over our boarders for nothing. Compasion and caring and concern for the world is an interesting concept coming from a nation that stood by and let their own people get cooked in ovens because they had a different religious view. That's just priceless. Of all people who shouldn't cast any stones, Germany is and always will be the last ones who should talk **** about a nation exerting it's power. The approach that most of Europe would take is to bend over for terrorists and give into their demands. What kind of ***** mentality is that? Take Spain for example. They are such ******* it's hilarious. Yeah we are with you in the war on terror 100%. Then they get an attack and they roll over like a poodle. Nice job letting the terrorists run the show. The USA needs to take the gloves off of Israel and let them take matters into their own hands when it comes to the sub human middle easten trash poluting our planet with their foul stench. Now go watch the fight and have a good weekend ya ****er. :)

First off I'm 20 years old. I haven't comitted a crime in my life ... at least nothing serious. ;)

I can't understand why I should be responsible for the actions of my grandfathers and grandgrandfathers. I do feel bad and I am sorry for the unexcuseable actions that took place during the 3rd Reich. But they weren't my fault! What could I've possibly done wrong? You don't punish the son for the behaviour of his father don't you? If so you could blame the French for Napoleon, the Russians for Stalin, the Americans for killing the Indians and the list could go on and on. Wouldn't you be surprised if someone accused you of killing the Indians?

I blieve that everyone should be allowed to state his opinion no matter what he looks like and where he comes from. If you don't agree you shouldn't call yourself an american citizien or what about the freedom of speech?

And I didn't only learn English, I had French lessons as well. English is the most important language in the world today but that doesn't mean that it's the only one. That's one of the things I thought was pretty strange about the exchange pupils from Amercia. They came to Germany and didn't speak a word German though they had German lessons for at least 3 years. Most of them just didn't care. But if one of us went to America we all spoke English and never thought about speaking German. It's a privilege to learn a different language and it's a sign of good education to try and adapt as good as you can if you visit a country.

And don't you get overexcited by the number of people trying to sneak over the border. Europe isn't next to Mexico but there are still thousands of poor souls that try to get here without permission every month. And anyway, is it really that hard to understand that I can think that America is a great country but disagree with your views at the same time?

The USA stand for a lot that is good and right but so do the European countries as well. This shouldn't be about who's the biggest and baddest. Foreign policy isn't quite as easy as a Rambo movie. We can't allow to work against each other. A bright future of this world desperatly needs an united world, for example regarding the Kyoto threaty.

The argument that German economy depends on american troops being stationed here is pure bull****. Daimler-Benz, Siemens, Volkswagen, Bertelsmann and lots of other big German groups alone are way more important. In fact I don't consider american troops a factor in our economy at all. It's actually the first time I hear someone mentioning that.

I could go on and on but I'm gonna watch the fights now. They take place in Las Vegas, U.S.A. by the way and I love your country for its boxing tradition. I know that we wont agree on this issue but I'm glad that we can respect and like each other though. Thanks for your PM and enjoy the fights pal.

Boxing is better than politics. Chill out, people. :) :) :)

Boxing is better than politics. Chill out, people. :) :) :)
You can say that again.

Thanks for the votes guys, I can see a pretty fair evaluation of what you think of George W. Bush.

Now if he only really did crack down on terrorism. *cough*liar *cough*

Frankly people already thought he was an idiot, and when 9/11 came around he had the support of the entire world to seek and destroy terrorism. Which is why everything went so smoothly when he proposed to look and fight al-quaeda and bin laden in afghanistan.

Iraq on the other hand, he showed what an idiot he really is, he went from world wide support, to none except from the brits. He already had the support he only needed to say please. What did he do... YOUR EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US. One vote away, from UN approval and the nod from the rest of the world, couldnt do things right.

what a retard.

I agree - he had the right idea in Afghanistan, but to me (and a lot of others) after he missed Bin Laden (how I dont know..) he just seemed to get bloodthirsty and thought **** why dont I take down Saddam as well. No points from me.

i voted guys....

Im not trying to talk poorly about anyones country here, but just the fact that there is this thread raises a question I have had for a while. Why does the rest of the world care who our president is? Because he's the leader of the free world? Not exactly. So honestly, why do you guys and gals care?

I am sure there will be fewer and fewer differences. Bush has been much nicer to Russia than all of these EE dorks. (or Clinton).
Because Bush and Putin both want totalitarian regimes. They have a lot in common.

pbds, before you say the decline in the dollar is expected and nothing to worry about, you should really get a better grasp of globabl economics. The losses in the dollar ARE a huge deal, especially when we have a president who is pissing off the rest of the world to the point where the expected upturn in exports that usually accompanies a drop in the dollar isn't happening. The dollar has lost more than 35% against both the Pound and the Euro since Bush took office. That's an unprecendented drop in 4 years. We have gone from the strongest dollar in 50 years to the weakest dollar in 30 years. That's not a good thing, especially when you couple it with an uncorrected high in the Dow, the shipping of US jobs overseas, the ballooning public debt and a government that is borrowing $2.5 billion a day just to keep the lights on with no end to the borrowing in sight.

The dollar has been the world reserve currency for more years than I can remember, ore than I've been alive in fact, but according to The Economist, we may soon lose that status, likely to the Euro.

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=S%27%29%28%3C%28QA%5F%21 %23%40%20T%0A

Scary as hell, isn't it?

Im not trying to talk poorly about anyones country here, but just the fact that there is this thread raises a question I have had for a while. Why does the rest of the world care who our president is? Because he's the leader of the free world? Not exactly. So honestly, why do you guys and gals care?

Cause the United States is the new Rome, plain and simple. It's the only superpower that matters at the moment. People all over the world talk about Rome fifteen hundred years after the fact.

and you guys (sweeds) did not fight at all

My fathers uncle fought and died as a volunteer defending Finlands independence.

pbds, before you say the decline in the dollar is expected and nothing to worry about, you should really get a better grasp of globabl economics. The losses in the dollar ARE a huge deal, especially when we have a president who is pissing off the rest of the world to the point where the expected upturn in exports that usually accompanies a drop in the dollar isn't happening. The dollar has lost more than 35% against both the Pound and the Euro since Bush took office. That's an unprecendented drop in 4 years. We have gone from the strongest dollar in 50 years to the weakest dollar in 30 years. That's not a good thing, especially when you couple it with an uncorrected high in the Dow, the shipping of US jobs overseas, the ballooning public debt and a government that is borrowing $2.5 billion a day just to keep the lights on with no end to the borrowing in sight.

The dollar has been the world reserve currency for more years than I can remember, ore than I've been alive in fact, but according to The Economist, we may soon lose that status, likely to the Euro.




http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=S%27%29%28%3C%28QA%5F%21 %23%40%20T%0A (http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=S%27%29%28%3C%28QA%5F%21 %23%40%20T%0A)

Scary as hell, isn't it?


The Economist is not necessarily the authority in the academia.

Take a look at Caballero's note:

http://web.mit.edu/caball/www/CaballeroDollarEuro.pdf

Caballero is a prominent Macro/International Economist at MIT. Caballero is a democrat, I know this for a fact, but his views on global imbalances tend to agree with pbd's. For convenience, I paste Caballero's note below.


Let us also keep in mind that the European currencies had been depreciating very strongly prior to the introduction of Euro, prior to the Bush presidency.

------------------

The Wrong Call: The Euro is no match for the Dollar
Ricardo J. Caballero
Ford International Professor of Economics and co-Director of the World Economic Laboratory, MIT12/03/2004



Pundits and intellectuals have made up their mind. Central Banks are next in line. The dollar has only one way to go, and that is down. Global imbalances must come to an end, the sooner the better. I beg to disagree.

The arguments for doom are textbook in style. The dollar once danced in the 1980s, and the conditions are here again, twin deficits and all. There is an extra twist in this round, since no one is on the other side, certainly not Germany or Japan, to absorb the US adjustment and its impact on the world economy. To remedy this costly gap, advocates of the dollar demise call for an expansion in global demand ex-US – investment and consumption must rise in Europe and Japan. But this position seems to ignore that Japan has spent the last decade trying to do just
that, and that Continental Europe is against the Maastricht constraint and bogged down by, unfortunately, well founded pessimism.

If the textbook solution is not at hand, what else? The answer may be in the path that took us where we are. There is an enormous demand for saving instruments in the world, and the US is the most efficient producer of such instruments. No other place combines the volume from new opportunities and ability to generate trustworthy saving instruments from each unit of physical investment put on the ground. By the way, this is the reason the corporate scandals in the US could have been so devastating for global equilibrium and why the nearly quixotic ventures of Mr. Eliot Spitzer, the tenacious New York Attorney General, are to be praised.

Granted, the aforementioned corporate scandals, the many shocks hitting the US economy since 2000, and an episode of fiscal recklessness, temporarily weakened private investor confidence, but this is in the mend. Moreover, the much repeated claim that three quarters of the current account deficit in the US is being financed by foreign central banks, to imply that only them have any interest in US assets, only shows how misleading net flows can be. Foreign private capital inflows dwarfed official capital
inflows even at the worst of the draught, and are now in full recovery mode aiming at their 1990s level. Of course, the other side of it is that capital outflows by US nationals are also on the rise, as American companies, with their great ability to generate savingsassets and spread corporate governance, borrow cheap from abroad and return to the source through win-win FDI.


This is not to say that the US current account deficit needs not be reduced, but only that the problem is more one of composition than of level. In the good path, fiscal deficits gradually fall, consumers decelerate slightly, both of which have begun to happen, but the current account does not fall equally as investment picks up.


Who can finance this continuous deficit? This is not hard to figure out, the same that have done it up to now. If fact, over the next two decades the bottleneck is less not more than in recent times. The high saving economies of East Asia are growing fast, at rates significantly higher than current interest rates. This means that in the years to come their financing of the US will grow enough to fulfill the US needs but decrease relative to their wealth. Things get easier not harder as time goes by. Unlike the 1980s, the persistent US current account deficits have come with extraordinarily low not high interest rates.

What about the Eurozone and its currency? Would not this be a better deal for big savers? Please, Continental Europe is barely afloat, and an appreciation of the Euro brings titanicstyle images to mind. The Yen is probably a more serious contender for the East Asian economies, but that too needs to wait until Japan is once again ready for prime time.

In summary, unless US corporations begin to issue claims in Euros in concert, which I doubt very much, the dollar is probably the currency not only of the past but of the future as well. Working on strengthening the foundations of the current system, through zealous enforcement of sound corporate governance standards and fiscal retrenchment, is a much surer bet than forfeiting the dollar in herds for clearly inferior substitutes.

Because Bush and Putin both want totalitarian regimes. They have a lot in common.


I disagree. Putin does not want a totalitarian regime.

If you like to discuss particular policies of Putin, let me know. I would be happy to discuss them.

Economist is not necessarily the authority in the academia.

Take a look at Caballero's note:

http://web.mit.edu/caball/www/CaballeroDollarEuro.pdf

Caballero is a prominent Macro/International Economist at MIT. Caballero is a democrat, I know this for a fact, but his views on global imbalances issues tend to agree with pbd's. For covenience, I paste Caballero's note below.


Let us also keep in mind that the European currencies had been depreciating very strongly prior to the introduction of Euro, prior to the Bush presidency.

------------------

The Wrong Call: The Euro is no match for the Dollar
Ricardo J. Caballero
Ford International Professor of Economics and co-Director of the World Economic Laboratory, MIT12/03/2004



Pundits and intellectuals have made up their mind. Central Banks are next in line. The dollar has only one way to go, and that is down. Global imbalances must come to an end, the sooner the better. I beg to disagree.

The arguments for doom are textbook in style. The dollar once danced in the 1980s, and the conditions are here again, twin deficits and all. There is an extra twist in this round, since no one is on the other side, certainly not Germany or Japan, to absorb the US adjustment and its impact on the world economy. To remedy this costly gap, advocates of the dollar demise call for an expansion in global demand ex-US – investment and consumption must rise in Europe and Japan. But this position seems to ignore that Japan has spent the last decade trying to do just
that, and that Continental Europe is against the Maastricht constraint and bogged down by, unfortunately, well founded pessimism.

If the textbook solution is not at hand, what else? The answer may be in the path that took us where we are. There is an enormous demand for saving instruments in the world, and the US is the most efficient producer of such instruments. No other place combines the volume from new opportunities and ability to generate trustworthy saving instruments from each unit of physical investment put on the ground. By the way, this is the reason the corporate scandals in the US could have been so devastating for global equilibrium and why the nearly quixotic ventures of Mr. Eliot Spitzer, the tenacious New York Attorney General, are to be praised.

Granted, the aforementioned corporate scandals, the many shocks hitting the US economy since 2000, and an episode of fiscal recklessness, temporarily weakened private investor confidence, but this is in the mend. Moreover, the much repeated claim that three quarters of the current account deficit in the US is being financed by foreign central banks, to imply that only them have any interest in US assets, only shows how misleading net flows can be. Foreign private capital inflows dwarfed official capital
inflows even at the worst of the draught, and are now in full recovery mode aiming at their 1990s level. Of course, the other side of it is that capital outflows by US nationals are also on the rise, as American companies, with their great ability to generate savingsassets and spread corporate governance, borrow cheap from abroad and return to the source through win-win FDI.


This is not to say that the US current account deficit needs not be reduced, but only that the problem is more one of composition than of level. In the good path, fiscal deficits gradually fall, consumers decelerate slightly, both of which have begun to happen, but the current account does not fall equally as investment picks up.


Who can finance this continuous deficit? This is not hard to figure out, the same that have done it up to now. If fact, over the next two decades the bottleneck is less not more than in recent times. The high saving economies of East Asia are growing fast, at rates significantly higher than current interest rates. This means that in the years to come their financing of the US will grow enough to fulfill the US needs but decrease relative to their wealth. Things get easier not harder as time goes by. Unlike the 1980s, the persistent US current account deficits have come with extraordinarily low not high interest rates.

What about the Eurozone and its currency? Would not this be a better deal for big savers? Please, Continental Europe is barely afloat, and an appreciation of the Euro brings titanicstyle images to mind. The Yen is probably a more serious contender for the East Asian economies, but that too needs to wait until Japan is once again ready for prime time.

In summary, unless US corporations begin to issue claims in Euros in concert, which I doubt very much, the dollar is probably the currency not only of the past but of the future as well. Working on strengthening the foundations of the current system, through zealous enforcement of sound corporate governance standards and fiscal retrenchment, is a much surer bet than forfeiting the dollar in herds for clearly inferior substitutes.


.......And common sense arrives just in time!! But no, we are all doomed. Our economy is going down, our global approval poll is going down, and the dollar is getting crushed by something that doesn't even look like real money. Strongest economy, strongest superpower, best looking women, men with the biggest ****s, and we are still the modern day Roman empire and will continue to be for the next 1,000 years. Us and the Russians of course(that's for you Nautilus). :)

I thinks its ****ing crap that they did, only Bush went and ****ed it all up by launching a pre-emptive strike against Iraq without international support, not because they couldnt aquire it, but because bush and his administration felt they didnt need to.

riiiight

where do you get your news from Al Jazeera?

give me a break

Because Bush and Putin both want totalitarian regimes. They have a lot in common.

youre such an idiot it amazes me sometimes

and you wonder why no one likes you

riiiight

where do you get your news from Al Jazeera?

give me a break

What? You actually think that the U.S. could not win the votes they needed?

It was there for their taking, all Bush needed to do was give a little to get a LOT. Not only did he not.. he gave a big F.U. with his your either with us or against us, and his We will attack regardless speeches. You tell me how he went from having complete support of the entire world to none except the brits? Let me guess your probably one of those who think all the countries with strong anti-american feelings because they are jelous right :rolleyes:

You give me a break.

\


....Asking Europeans their take on Bush is like asking the French if they would rather bend over or fight? We know the answer to both questions. One is based on jealousy of the greatest nation on earth and the other is based on historical fact.

I don't love the french, from what I gather they are not the most pleasant to Americans but keep this in mind when you think they are such *****'s....Have you ever been attacked on your home soil, have you ever heard the air raid sirons go off in your back yard...does this make them tough...no but I don't think it fair to say they would bend over easily either.

As a non american my opinion of George Bush stands. He had a hard choice on Sept 11th but he made the choice and stuck with it. He is resolute, decisive and brave. Right or wrong, george Bush is a good leader because instead of beating around the bush like some people ( Tony Blair, French and Spanish government etc.. ) Bush makes a deccison and sticks with it, i`d rather have this guy running the world than someone who can`t make up their mind and act when the time for action arrives.

riiiight

where do you get your news from Al Jazeera?

give me a break

Hello Mr. Rove...first off let me say that I am a democrat and I have read everything about you...you are a true genious...in my mind you make a guy like James Carville look like an amuteur.

Now...all I would like to say concerns the current war in Iraq....we are ****ed! When we went in there was no war...they layed down, they had no weapons, no air force-the reports kept saying that all of these division were wiped out...when in actuality the Iraqis went back home and lived to fight another day.

Mission accomplished...what mission was accomplished, the mission had not even started yet! The mission is unwinnable, you can't democratize a country that at best has a different defintion of what democracy really is. So we go in and take fallujah...we either stay there for ever or when we leave it immediately gets corrupted, we can't win this war! 100K Iraqi civilians have died so far, many more to come...tell me this is you were a 13 Iraqi that had nuetral opinions about the US, Saddam, Al Quaeda and both you parents were killed by a missile dropped from an f-16 what would yopu think? Would you say Im damn glad those Americans came and save us? Rumsfield said himself that he feared that we may be creating more terrorists than killing, he admiited there is no metric for calculating this but he did not sound optimistic...I would bet we are creating more.

We can't win this war, would we have gone in if the american people were told that we need thousands of young men and women to die to democratize Iraq? I don't think so...Did sanctions do what they were supposed too, yup-Saddam is a bad dude but he was a bad dude with a few gold platted pistols...war did not have to be the first option, I know many republicans that support the president that can't disagree with me when I say war was Bush's first choice, diplomacy wasn't even second. Bin Laden and his gang of thugs have been locked out of Iraq for ever, now with Sadam gone they can come and go as they wish...in a wierd way saddam was on our side....he hated OBL just as much as we did.

Would we have gone to Iraq if they stored 25% of the world dates as opposed to oil...probably not....

tech9 I respect you view but when it comes down to it can you admit that we are ****ed over there...democracy will take 50 years-even then I don't think its possible...we can't win...I get tired of hearing some liberals draw crazy comparisons to vietnam but there are some comparisons that in the next year or two need to be seriously looked at...if we can't win how many men and women do we let die before we say enough is enough...I dont know the answer to that question but I do know we have been down this road before.

What? You actually think that the U.S. could not win the votes they needed?

It was there for their taking, all Bush needed to do was give a little to get a LOT. Not only did he not.. he gave a big F.U. with his your either with us or against us, and his We will attack regardless speeches. You tell me how he went from having complete support of the entire world to none except the brits? Let me guess your probably one of those who think all the countries with strong anti-american feelings because they are jelous right :rolleyes:

You give me a break.

no its just that your previous post made it seem like he didnt try one bit and just went in alone... he obviously tried

Hello Mr. Rove...first off let me say that I am a democrat and I have read everything about you...you are a true genious...in my mind you make a guy like James Carville look like an amuteur.

Now...all I would like to say concerns the current war in Iraq....we are ****ed! When we went in there was no war...they layed down, they had no weapons, no air force-the reports kept saying that all of these division were wiped out...when in actuality the Iraqis went back home and lived to fight another day.

Mission accomplished...what mission was accomplished, the mission had not even started yet! The mission is unwinnable, you can't democratize a country that at best has a different defintion of what democracy really is. So we go in and take fallujah...we either stay there for ever or when we leave it immediately gets corrupted, we can't win this war! 100K Iraqi civilians have died so far, many more to come...tell me this is you were a 13 Iraqi that had nuetral opinions about the US, Saddam, Al Quaeda and both you parents were killed by a missile dropped from an f-16 what would yopu think? Would you say Im damn glad those Americans came and save us? Rumsfield said himself that he feared that we may be creating more terrorists than killing, he admiited there is no metric for calculating this but he did not sound optimistic...I would bet we are creating more.

We can't win this war, would we have gone in if the american people were told that we need thousands of young men and women to die to democratize Iraq? I don't think so...Did sanctions do what they were supposed too, yup-Saddam is a bad dude but he was a bad dude with a few gold platted pistols...war did not have to be the first option, I know many republicans that support the president that can't disagree with me when I say war was Bush's first choice, diplomacy wasn't even second. Bin Laden and his gang of thugs have been locked out of Iraq for ever, now with Sadam gone they can come and go as they wish...in a wierd way saddam was on our side....he hated OBL just as much as we did.

Would we have gone to Iraq if they stored 25% of the world dates as opposed to oil...probably not....

tech9 I respect you view but when it comes down to it can you admit that we are ****ed over there...democracy will take 50 years-even then I don't think its possible...we can't win...I get tired of hearing some liberals draw crazy comparisons to vietnam but there are some comparisons that in the next year or two need to be seriously looked at...if we can't win how many men and women do we let die before we say enough is enough...I dont know the answer to that question but I do know we have been down this road before.

yeah its a mess but its definitely not some war bush made up for political gains or so he and cheney can become richer... that liberal argument pisses me off

yeah its a mess but its definitely not some war bush made up for political gains or so he and cheney can become richer... that liberal argument pisses me off

It's a mess that we can't win! I am a liberal and I like you don't buy the theory that Bush and Cheney went to war to make money off of Iraq, but I do think that if there was zero oil in Iraq it never would have been a consideration to go in.

Why did we go to Iraq...I have no ****ing clue...so we thought he had weapons...we have about 1000 inspectors in there...why not give them three or four months more time, give them a year...had we have done this we would have had more allies and less Americans dead, period.

What I find funny about a lot of conservatives is that now that the WMD thing has been revealed as a myth they then say well Saddam had torcher chaimbers, he gassed the Kurds in the 80's, he viloates UN resolution after UN resolution.

In the 80's we knew all about the gassing of the Kurds and the Iranians...we quietly encouraged it. Iran was kicking Iraq's ass, a fundamentalist state was certainly not in outr interest and we were very nervous. Saddam started gassing ****ers to say lookit we have a deterent and if you continue to move forward we are going gas you ****ers...Iran pulled back and the US was happy!

Give Bush credit he got inspectors back in Iraq...then he failed to capitalize on his huge accomplishment...he kept saying that Iraq is the size of California....what was Saddam going to do-build a ****in Nuke while inspectors are going through the country...we could have continually increased inspectors if Bush was willing to be patient, but no he had to go in front of the American people and start talking about mushroom clouds-could he have been more wrong?..if Saddam ever kicked the inspectors out tell him he's through...had we done this we at the very least would have help. (don't you love how Iraqi oil is paying for the war just like your boy cheney told us it would)

Are we safer now with Saddam out than with him...my party was to chiken **** to say this, most likely because the american people are overall stupid and would have freaked out, but the answer is **** no we are not safer, how are we safer...No weapons, now the country is an open book for fundementalism...the same fundamentalism that we fought against in the 80's and the same fundementalism that we were hit with on 9/11.

Again we are ****ed and because of this presidnets eagerness to go to war there is no end in sight other then a full withdrawal, which I am not suggesting at the moment-the situation is so ****ed that any which way you go your gonna get ****ed!

In closing if Al Gore had been in office and 9/11 happened the Conservatives would have cried out to the american people saying you can't trust the libs when it comes to national security...then if Gore would have gone into Iraq and not exhausted every option to get OBL-the Republicans would have gone ****ing wacko annihilating the dems in an election year based upon the platform of..."they did not get the guy who got us!"

Tech9, why is Bush so damn tough in your eyes? Would you walk down an alley with him? I wouldn't, I was not a big john Kerry fan but Ill tell you what, you want tough-Ill go down that alley any day with Kerry who is a real soldier as opposed to this so called stay at home bad boy!

WE ARE ****ED IN IRAQ

2 OPTIONS AND BOTH OF THEM LEAVE US ****ED!!!!

1) WE WITHDRAW, FUNDEMENTALISM, NOT IRAQ CLAIMS VICTORY AND WE LOOK LIK DIP****S!

2)WE STAY AND YEAR AFTER YEAR THOUSAND ARE SERIUOSLY WOUNDED AND THE DEATH TOLL RISES...10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD WHEN THE DEATH COUNT IS AT 9/10K WE COME TO THE REALIZATION THAT THIS WAR IS UNWINNABLE THEN WE LEAVE...LEAVING MANY IN A STATE OF CONFUSION AND GOVERNMENTAL CHAOS BEACUSE WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE LEARNED OUR LESSON ABOUT KNOWING WHEN TO HOLD EM AND KNOWING WHEN TO FOLD EM BACK IN THE ****ING 70'S.

It's a mess that we can't win! I am a liberal and I like you don't buy the theory that Bush and Cheney went to war to make money off of Iraq, but I do think that if there was zero oil in Iraq it never would have been a consideration to go in.

Why did we go to Iraq...I have no ****ing clue...so we thought he had weapons...we have about 1000 inspectors in there...why not give them three or four months more time, give them a year...had we have done this we would have had more allies and less Americans dead, period.

What I find funny about a lot of conservatives is that now that the WMD thing has been revealed as a myth they then say well Saddam had torcher chaimbers, he gassed the Kurds in the 80's, he viloates UN resolution after UN resolution.

In the 80's we knew all about the gassing of the Kurds and the Iranians...we quietly encouraged it. Iran was kicking Iraq's ass, a fundamentalist state was certainly not in outr interest and we were very nervous. Saddam started gassing ****ers to say lookit we have a deterent and if you continue to move forward we are going gas you ****ers...Iran pulled back and the US was happy!

Give Bush credit he got inspectors back in Iraq...then he failed to capitalize on his huge accomplishment...he kept saying that Iraq is the size of California....what was Saddam going to do-build a ****in Nuke while inspectors are going through the country...we could have continually increased inspectors if Bush was willing to be patient, but no he had to go in front of the American people and start talking about mushroom clouds-could he have been more wrong?..if Saddam ever kicked the inspectors out tell him he's through...had we done this we at the very least would have help. (don't you love how Iraqi oil is paying for the war just like your boy cheney told us it would)

Are we safer now with Saddam out than with him...my party was to chiken **** to say this, most likely because the american people are overall stupid and would have freaked out, but the answer is **** no we are not safer, how are we safer...No weapons, now the country is an open book for fundementalism...the same fundamentalism that we fought against in the 80's and the same fundementalism that we were hit with on 9/11.

Again we are ****ed and because of this presidnets eagerness to go to war there is no end in sight other then a full withdrawal, which I am not suggesting at the moment-the situation is so ****ed that any which way you go your gonna get ****ed!

In closing if Al Gore had been in office and 9/11 happened the Conservatives would have cried out to the american people saying you can't trust the libs when it comes to national security...then if Gore would have gone into Iraq and not exhausted every option to get OBL-the Republicans would have gone ****ing wacko annihilating the dems in an election year based upon the platform of..."they did not get the guy who got us!"

Tech9, why is Bush so damn tough in your eyes? Would you walk down an alley with him? I wouldn't, I was not a big john Kerry fan but Ill tell you what, you want tough-Ill go down that alley any day with Kerry who is a real soldier as opposed to this so called stay at home bad boy!

WE ARE ****ED IN IRAQ

2 OPTIONS AND BOTH OF THEM LEAVE US ****ED!!!!

1) WE WITHDRAW, FUNDEMENTALISM, NOT IRAQ CLAIMS VICTORY AND WE LOOK LIK DIP****S!

2)WE STAY AND YEAR AFTER YEAR THOUSAND ARE SERIUOSLY WOUNDED AND THE DEATH TOLL RISES...10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD WHEN THE DEATH COUNT IS AT 9/10K WE COME TO THE REALIZATION THAT THIS WAR IS UNWINNABLE THEN WE LEAVE...LEAVING MANY IN A STATE OF CONFUSION AND GOVERNMENTAL CHAOS BEACUSE WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE LEARNED OUR LESSON ABOUT KNOWING WHEN TO HOLD EM AND KNOWING WHEN TO FOLD EM BACK IN THE ****ING 70'S.


0. The fact that Saddam was supported by the U.S. in the 80s is irrelevant for today's decisions.

1. There was not a simple solution to the Iraq problem prior to war.

2. There is not a simple solution now.

3. I think that there was a possibility to remove Saddam peacefully and replace him with a secular leader. Primakov tried to talk Saddam into that. I liked Primakov's approach the most.

4. Democracy will take a while to get started.

5. U.S. will bear the cost of the Iraqi situation. That's clear.

6. Hope it works out. It will be hard.

7. Who knows a better way? Speak up.

BU$$h DOES NOT CARE ABOUT PEOPLE AND COUNTRIES

techn9ne - thanks for the bad rep. I mean we were all asked our opinions and I gave mine yet it's a bad post. That's quite intellegent.

My mom and her boyfriend got into a fight around the election. My mom said that she wouldn't vote for Bush because she couldn't understand why we would kill tens of thousands of innocent civilians just to have a control of energy resources. She also said that the Patriot Act was the beginning of a loss of freedoms would lead to our inevitable succumbing to the New World Order.

But my future stepdad said she better not vote for Kerry because he is a Democrat and would take our guns and then he couldn't hunt deer.

My mom and her boyfriend got into a fight around the election. My mom said that she wouldn't vote for Bush because she couldn't understand why we would kill tens of thousands of innocent civilians just to have a control of energy resources. She also said that the Patriot Act was the beginning of a loss of freedoms would lead to our inevitable succumbing to the New World Order.

But my future stepdad said she better not vote for Kerry because he is a Democrat and would take our guns and then he couldn't hunt deer.

your so weird get out of here neils... you were banned

your so weird get out of here neils... you were banned

Guess you didn't get the memo...

Americans are as stupid as their retarded president.

Americans are as stupid as their retarded president.

That's a racist comment. I'm reporting the abuse..

why the **** did this thread get closed?? cause 1 guy says 1 sentence and 1 guy cries about it??

look at all these replies in here! there's some really good points & opinions thrown in here. don't let 1 post shut down a thread. worst case, just delete the ****in post.

btw, the russian dude in this thread kicks ass. russia's got some knarly history and War & Peace is a badass novel :headbang:

why the **** did this thread get closed?? cause 1 guy says 1 sentence and 1 guy cries about it??

look at all these replies in here! there's some really good points & opinions thrown in here. don't let 1 post shut down a thread. worst case, just delete the ****in post.



I started this thread...and I would rather see it closed...because it got edited by the administrators. The poll originally said George W. Bush and the options were 'approve' and 'disapprove'. It got changed by the administraters to Being 'drunk', 'stoned', 'sober'...whats up with that. I also noticed that another one of my polls the one for the thread "Would you like your favorite boxer of he was gay" also got changed....the options simply were 'yes' and 'no'....but again got changed by the administration to something else. Aren't you supposed to express ideas freely in a FORUM without being censored?

Thread was never closed and poll was not changed by me

well yeah to an extent. as long as yer not blatently trying to troll or be too much of an ass. i don't see any problem with either polls. internet forums are clogged with george bush opinions. politics always get heated. i don't see why people would come into a political thread without expecting some racey judgemental ****. and i really can't understand why someone would **** with yer thread because of it.
lame.

Thread was never closed and poll was not changed by me

it was closed earlier but i think he closed his own thread. i voted for 'drunk'.

well yeah to an extent. as long as yer not blatently trying to troll or be too much of an ass. i don't see any problem with either polls. internet forums are clogged with george bush opinions. politics always get heated. i don't see why people would come into a political thread without expecting some racey judgemental ****. and i really can't understand why someone would **** with yer thread because of it.
lame.



I'm neither a Republican or Democrat so it really didnt matter to me personally if someone liked or disliked Bush...just thought it would be a worthwhile debate. I have no idea what's going on with people's polls in this site being changed. From what I understand other people's polls in here have been changed as well...it's a mystery to me so I won't comment on it too much. But it kind of makes you not want to do anymore polls...knowing your idea will be changed.

it was closed earlier but i think he closed his own thread. i voted for 'drunk'.





You mean there's a function on here that let's you close your own threads? How do you do it?

Thread was never closed and poll was not changed by me




Sorry if I implied that YOU were changing people's threads...I assumed that you had a team of moderators that censored the forum that's why I said "administrators". I did see the lockdown symbol on this thread earlier.

Sorry if I implied that YOU were changing people's threads...I assumed that you had a team of moderators that censored the forum that's why I said "administrators". I did see the lockdown symbol on this thread earlier.

What I think happened was that a few old Admins accounts were left behind when I merged the MMA site into the BoxingScene forums and one of them screwed around with some of the polls. Those accounts are now gone and I've taken other precautions to catch the culprite.

What I think happened was that a few old Admins accounts were left behind when I merged the MMA site into the BoxingScene forums and one of them screwed around with some of the polls. Those accounts are now gone and I've taken other precautions to catch the culprite.

must of been sweet dick willy, GET HIS ASS RICK! :boxing:

I think a lot of europeans don't understand why Americans voted for Bush. It wasn't because they are supportive of his war in Iraq. In fact, he won inspite of Iraq, not because of it.

People mainly voted for Bush because they think a giant horde of abortion having homosexual terrorists are going to come into thier gated communities and destory thier "family values".

OH, and then raise taxes once they take over.

What I think happened was that a few old Admins accounts were left behind when I merged the MMA site into the BoxingScene forums and one of them screwed around with some of the polls. Those accounts are now gone and I've taken other precautions to catch the culprite.

I also had a poll or two changed on me. I guess that explains it.

As for Bush, he's not the brightest bulb on the tree, but he's doing what he believes is best.

I also had a poll or two changed on me. I guess that explains it.

As for Bush, he's not the brightest bulb on the tree, but he's doing what he believes is best.

And thats what really the scary part is. He really does belive he is right.

And thats what really the scary part is. He really does belive he is right.

I didn't vote for Bush and I don't agree with the war in Iraq, but really the jury is still out on whether he is "right" or not. It takes time and perspective to accurately judge a president or historical figure.

People mainly voted for Bush because they think a giant horde of abortion having homosexual terrorists are going to come into thier gated communities and destory thier "family values".

He and his play well off the zenophobic, hatefull, and intolerent section of christian america.

Now if he only really did crack down on terrorism. *cough*liar *cough*

Frankly people already thought he was an idiot, and when 9/11 came around he had the support of the entire world to seek and destroy terrorism. Which is why everything went so smoothly when he proposed to look and fight al-quaeda and bin laden in afghanistan.

Iraq on the other hand, he showed what an idiot he really is, he went from world wide support, to none except from the brits. He already had the support he only needed to say please. What did he do... YOUR EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US. One vote away, from UN approval and the nod from the rest of the world, couldnt do things right.

what a retard.

This is the exact way I feel. Afghanistan was approved by most people, although he ****ed up and didnt find Osama.

He was still pissed about it, so he thought '**** this, I'm going after Saddam' completely *out of the blue*. Then it turns out Saddam didnt have **** over there except for some nice Iraqi *****es feeding him grapes - WMD's my ass.

He is a complete tool.

I voted for the other guy. What the hell? People saw how ****ty America was and said "we want 4 more years of this bull****" Well, 48 million americans can't be wrong. *rolls eyes*

He and his play well off the zenophobic, hatefull, and intolerent section of christian america.



it's kind of like the KKK's own brand of christianity

I voted being drunk. I'm higheveryday so whateva

I voted for "high"

Well, in a democracy every country gets what it deserves. That being said I can't judge wether he's the right man for the job since I don't live in America.

My personal opinion is that George W. Bush is the most stupid, most childish and most undeserving president your great country ever had. I totally disagree with his foreign policy. And right now pbds I'm everything but jealous. I wouldn't move to the USA even if they paid me for it.

Lots of people I know think that Bush jr. is a sick freak with perverse beliefs. Since he's the president of the U.S.A. and after attacking Afganisthan lots of people dislike everything that's american. In fact I don't know one single person that actually likes Bush or his governement. Most people believe that the normal american citizen is completly uneducated and ****y.

In my very personal opinion hBush is just a marionette that is being played by your economy. Personally I can't understand why anybody voted for him. But, well, I wouldn't have voted for Kerry or Nader as well. It's sad that a country like the U.S.A. can't give its people more (and better) options.

I'm sorry if I offended someone.


i basically agree with most of wat u said (by the way im american)

and i completely agree with the options statement, the fact that if u dont vote for 1 of 2 ppl ur basically a wasted vote is terrible, there arent only two possible ways to run a democracy, yet that is how america makes it. however, when i can vote, i will not vote for an independent due to the fact id rather make my opion useful (democrat) instead of wasting, no matter how much i liked the independ candidate more (unless that person somehow turns out to b a real candidate).

....Asking Europeans their take on Bush is like asking the French if they would rather bend over or fight? We know the answer to both questions. One is based on jealousy of the greatest nation on earth and the other is based on historical fact.

To be fair, Peanut Butter, I think the fact that he's a **** might have something to do with it as well.

To be fair, Peanut Butter, I think the fact that he's a **** might have something to do with it as well.
http://www.taltif.com/resources/peanut-butter-1.jpg