View Full Version : Rocky Marciano VS Mike Tyson.


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EXIGE
07-23-2005, 07:39 PM
Just had a massive discussion with a friend of mine about this, and he reckons that Rocky would win against Mike Tyson in a modern day fight.

Now take into consideration that Rocky would be fighting in the same condition he was in, in his prime, and the same with Tyson. Now tell me who would win, and i will tell you who and why i think one of them would win after.

P.s Im guessing this thread has come up before, sorry but i need an answer cos this is buggin me.

uncle_rico
07-23-2005, 08:14 PM
marciano via ko, no doubt.
it'd be a bloody mess of a fight, but i can't see
tyson winning that fight.

if the smaller heavyweights of years past are gonna struggle,
it would be against taller guys like foreman or holyfield who can sit back and extend their reach and power.
tyson was what? 220lbs in his prime? but, he was only
5'11 or so, so he'd have to be in the pocket with someone who actually fights back.

tyson doesnt have the heart to beat marciano.

as a matter of fact, i think a bunch of the old heavies
would beat tyson's ass.

tyson has won exactly zero tough fights.
every fight he's had, he's either dominated, or, when the
other guy actually fought back, tyson got his ass kicked.
so, i say marciano whips his ass.

as for the size difference, it's misleading.
this gets brought up alot. people talk about tyson, tua, etc...
but look at other sports. look how much power pitchers generate
to throw a 95+ mph fastball, they aren't musclebound.
billy wagner for the phillies throws 99mph consistently, he's 5'9
180lbs!

my point is, weight doesnt mean power.
primo carnerna was a 6'6 260 bum.
jameel mcline 6'7 270 and can't break a pane of glass with his
punches.

EXIGE
07-23-2005, 08:57 PM
marciano via ko, no doubt.
it'd be a bloody mess of a fight, but i can't see
tyson winning that fight.

if the smaller heavyweights of years past are gonna struggle,
it would be against taller guys like foreman or holyfield who can sit back and extend their reach and power.
tyson was what? 220lbs in his prime? but, he was only
5'11 or so, so he'd have to be in the pocket with someone who actually fights back.

tyson doesnt have the heart to beat marciano.

as a matter of fact, i think a bunch of the old heavies
would beat tyson's ass.

tyson has won exactly zero tough fights.
every fight he's had, he's either dominated, or, when the
other guy actually fought back, tyson got his ass kicked.
so, i say marciano whips his ass.

as for the size difference, it's misleading.
this gets brought up alot. people talk about tyson, tua, etc...
but look at other sports. look how much power pitchers generate
to throw a 95+ mph fastball, they aren't musclebound.
billy wagner for the phillies throws 99mph consistently, he's 5'9
180lbs!

my point is, weight doesnt mean power.
primo carnerna was a 6'6 260 bum.
jameel mcline 6'7 270 and can't break a pane of glass with his
punches.
You make some good points but i simply have to disagree, simply cos the type of training either received.

I mean you look at modern day, the nutrionalists and all that, then you look at what resources Rocky had available to him. Simple Rocky would not be able to keep up with the requirememnts of a modern day boxer like Tyson with all his power, far exceeding that of Rocky's and also lets not forget that Rocky's chin was only tested by the men he fought. Tyson's chin has been tested by the likes of some of the heaviest hitters the world has ever seen.

Sorry but Tyson by late KO/TKO in my opinion.

uncle_rico
07-23-2005, 09:21 PM
You make some good points but i simply have to disagree, simply cos the type of training either received.

I mean you look at modern day, the nutrionalists and all that, then you look at what resources Rocky had available to him. Simple Rocky would not be able to keep up with the requirememnts of a modern day boxer like Tyson with all his power, far exceeding that of Rocky's and also lets not forget that Rocky's chin was only tested by the men he fought. Tyson's chin has been tested by the likes of some of the heaviest hitters the world has ever seen.

Sorry but Tyson by late KO/TKO in my opinion.

fair enough, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

kapersky
07-23-2005, 10:21 PM
You make some good points but i simply have to disagree, simply cos the type of training either received.

I mean you look at modern day, the nutrionalists and all that, then you look at what resources Rocky had available to him. Simple Rocky would not be able to keep up with the requirememnts of a modern day boxer like Tyson with all his power, far exceeding that of Rocky's and also lets not forget that Rocky's chin was only tested by the men he fought. Tyson's chin has been tested by the likes of some of the heaviest hitters the world has ever seen.

Sorry but Tyson by late KO/TKO in my opinion.

yeah i agree, its different era and different strategic,training etc. tysons prime is not when he fough bruno or douglas that tyson would be ko by any top 30 i guess just to slow and dumb. guess because all medication he had he just looks ****ed up after rooney. tyson is to big and fast. noway rocky could touch tyson just face all please. and again its different era we cant compare like this cause noone really know the answear.
:boxing:

FistoftheDallasStar
07-24-2005, 01:25 AM
Prime Tyson vs prime Marciano? Tyson would definately win by an early KO. Tyson was faster and hit harder than Rocky.... come on now. Just because Tyson is hated by many and is the poster boy "bad guy" you can't think Marciano would stand a chance. Look at the fight clips back to back. Marciano vs. Walcott and Tyson vs Marvis Frazier. (Just trying to pick someone that was Rocky's height). The speed and the power difference is so apparent.

Boxclever
07-24-2005, 06:25 AM
How would Marciano respond if Tyson bit his ear, it needs to be considered. :)

uncle_rico
07-24-2005, 09:19 AM
Prime Tyson vs prime Marciano? Tyson would definately win by an early KO. Tyson was faster and hit harder than Rocky.... come on now. Just because Tyson is hated by many and is the poster boy "bad guy" you can't think Marciano would stand a chance. Look at the fight clips back to back. Marciano vs. Walcott and Tyson vs Marvis Frazier. (Just trying to pick someone that was Rocky's height). The speed and the power difference is so apparent.

here's the thing tho, the technology back then was soooo different.
so, it's hard to gauge speed and strength cuz the tv's and camera's sucked.
think about it. if you look at any of those old fights, it's not like
now with the carmera shots right in the fighters faces so you can see
every little cut and the sweat on their faces.
look at the old fights, the camera wasn't close enough to see
anything.
so, unless you're old enough to have seen those fights live or
had someone in your familiy see those fights and tell you about
them, it's very easy to say the old guys sucked cause the film
on them did them no justice.

so, i know it seems like tyson is this hard hittin beast, and he was, but
i don't think you can take anything away from marciano.

again, like in baseball, now you can see every pitch and how hard it is.
they show you the results from the radar after every pitch.
well, think about all-time great pitchers like bob gibson who threw absolute gas. there was no gun back then, so no one knows how hard he really threw, but not one person would dare to see there's many pitchers today that can throw harder, cuz there are plenty of people who've seen him pitch live and todays pitchers live, and they can say gibson threw as hard as anyone else. know what i mean?

it really is hard to compare fighters in differnt eras.
Without a doubt in all sports, today's athletes are bigger and stronger; i just don't think that it means they're always better. most times, yes, but not always.

uncle_rico
07-24-2005, 03:28 PM
also wanted to add, marciano did beat joe louis.

i know it's foolish apply circular logic to boxing
(ie, fighter "a" beats fighter "b" and fighter beat
has beaten fighter "c", you can assume fighter "a"
would be fighter "c")
but i think it applies here.

here's what i mean.
maricano's size is talked about so much, but people forget
joe louis regularly fought at or near 215. so, my point is
if marciano can beat a 215lbs fighter of joe louis' caliber
he can beat the 225lbs guys of today.

M26
07-24-2005, 04:00 PM
also wanted to add, marciano did beat joe louis.

i know it's foolish apply circular logic to boxing
(ie, fighter "a" beats fighter "b" and fighter beat
has beaten fighter "c", you can assume fighter "a"
would be fighter "c")
but i think it applies here.

here's what i mean.
maricano's size is talked about so much, but people forget
joe louis regularly fought at or near 215. so, my point is
if marciano can beat a 215lbs fighter of joe louis' caliber
he can beat the 225lbs guys of today.


I agree with you in that the fighters of today are not superior to the fighters of yesterday just because they are bigger. Further, I am a huge Marciano fan, and given Tysons lack of heart and stamina, a Marciano win is not totally unlikely. How ever, a prime Tyson from 1987 with all his speed and power would be the favorite in this match up. Given the fact that Marciano was kind of a "slow starter", I can see Tyson forcing the ref to stop the fight early.

Of course, if Marciano survives the first couple of rounds, he would destroy Tyson.

The fact that Marciano defeated Joe Louis is not a very solid argument. Granted, Louis was still a good fighter at the time he fought Marciano, with eight straight wins prior to the fight, but he was nowhere near his prime. He was a 37-year-old unmotivated has-been, forced to fight because of financial difficulties. The Joe Louis of 1951 was not a force to be reckoned with. So Marciano never did beat a "fighter of Joe Louis' caliber". He fought the shadow of Joe Louis and it took him close to eight rounds to finish him off.

uncle_rico
07-24-2005, 04:40 PM
> The fact that Marciano defeated Joe Louis is not a very solid argument

my point wasn't to bring up the level of competition, my point was to bring up marciano beat a guy who was 215lbs.
yeah, louis was finished by the time they fought, but i was trying to point out that the size issue is not as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be.
i think a prime louis would smoke tyson as well for that matter.

M26
07-24-2005, 04:42 PM
> The fact that Marciano defeated Joe Louis is not a very solid argument

my point wasn't to bring up the level of competition, my point was to bring up marciano beat a guy who was 215lbs.
yeah, louis was finished by the time they fought, but i was trying to point out that the size issue is not as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be.
i think a prime louis would smoke tyson as well for that matter.

I agree. There is too much focus on the weight issue.

tommyhearns804
07-26-2005, 07:09 AM
This debate will always go on.White guys will alawys tell you a 180 pound man like Marciano could beat 220 pound plus guys and Black guys will always tell you Tyson was this bad man who could never lose.I am black and you are both wrong.
Marciano never fought any 220 pound world class fighters period in his career.The fighters Marciano fought usually weighed between 155 naturally like Moore(Moore was a middleweight.He fought there for 7 years)to guys weighing about 200 pounds.Being good at knocking out bascially 180 pound bums doens't have anything to do with him knocking out the guys Tyson fought.
If you believe Marciano would win because he has better stamina then you are retarded.Frazier had better stamina than Foreman but did it matter?Foreman was just to big and powerful for him.Marciano would not be able to hurt Tyson period.Marciano had a hell of a time knocking out guys like Charles and Moorer who were naturally middleweights and neither had good chins for middleweights or any other weight class they fought at.Moore probably went down at least 30 to 40 times in his career but it took Marciano 8 or 9 rounds to finally finish off a 40 plus year old Moore.Tyson is bigger fast and tougher than Moore ,Charles,Walcott or even Louis.
Marciano was the slowest fighter i ever seen in any weight class.Tyson at his best had one of the best handspeed.Marciano would never make it out of first round with guys like Tyson,Lewis,Bowe,Tua,Foreman ect ect ect.
And Trying to compare guys like Mccline to Marciano is hilarious.Mccline isn't much of a fighter compared to other big 220 230 plus pound guys.But if he could fight the small guys Maricano fouht he would of never lost either and his ko percentage would be alot higher.
And if you people have read any of my other post then you know i can't stand Tyson.He is a cowardly rapist and i have nothing really positive to say about him.He is a disgrace to the sport of boxing.But no 180 pound fighter like Marciano could ever beat him.No glass chin guy like Louis could ever beat a prime Tyson.Tyson would own any fighter before Liston.I would love to see Tyson lose to these guys but unlike most of you my eyes aren't blinded by what i want to think i just go back fact and logic.And they both point to Tyson blowing out Marciano in one round.

uncle_rico
07-26-2005, 07:48 AM
This debate will always go on.White guys will alawys tell you a 180 pound man like Marciano could beat 220 pound plus guys and Black guys will always tell you Tyson was this bad man who could never lose.I am black and you are both wrong.
Marciano never fought any 220 pound world class fighters period in his career.The fighters Marciano fought usually weighed between 155 naturally like Moore(Moore was a middleweight.He fought there for 7 years)to guys weighing about 200 pounds.Being good at knocking out bascially 180 pound bums doens't have anything to do with him knocking out the guys Tyson fought.
If you believe Marciano would win because he has better stamina then you are retarded.Frazier had better stamina than Foreman but did it matter?Foreman was just to big and powerful for him.Marciano would not be able to hurt Tyson period.Marciano had a hell of a time knocking out guys like Charles and Moorer who were naturally middleweights and neither had good chins for middleweights or any other weight class they fought at.Moore probably went down at least 30 to 40 times in his career but it took Marciano 8 or 9 rounds to finally finish off a 40 plus year old Moore.Tyson is bigger fast and tougher than Moore ,Charles,Walcott or even Louis.
Marciano was the slowest fighter i ever seen in any weight class.Tyson at his best had one of the best handspeed.Marciano would never make it out of first round with guys like Tyson,Lewis,Bowe,Tua,Foreman ect ect ect.
And Trying to compare guys like Mccline to Marciano is hilarious.Mccline isn't much of a fighter compared to other big 220 230 plus pound guys.But if he could fight the small guys Maricano fouht he would of never lost either and his ko percentage would be alot higher.
And if you people have read any of my other post then you know i can't stand Tyson.He is a cowardly rapist and i have nothing really positive to say about him.He is a disgrace to the sport of boxing.But no 180 pound fighter like Marciano could ever beat him.No glass chin guy like Louis could ever beat a prime Tyson.Tyson would own any fighter before Liston.I would love to see Tyson lose to these guys but unlike most of you my eyes aren't blinded by what i want to think i just go back fact and logic.And they both point to Tyson blowing out Marciano in one round.

same **** out out of you time after time...

you're like one of eddie murphy's characters from
coming to america in the barbershop:
"rocky marciano, rocky marciano, every time a white
man talk about boxin he gotta pull rocky marciano
out his ass". lol.

first, no one gives a **** that your black.
you mentioning that you're black does what?
validates your argument? makes you correct?
(those are rhetorical questions, the answer is "no" to both).
please read this from top to bottom.
*you and only you* brought up black and white.
you're a real class act, you know that?

what's sad is, if marciano was black, you'd probably like
him as much as joe frazier. and what's with you talking
**** about joe louis? the guy is arguably the best heavyweight
ever...

anyway, let's leave marciano out for a moment, as you really
i mean *really* are affected by this race thing here.
joe louis regularly fought at 210/215. he would crush
tyson. ok? so, now i'm talking about one black guy
and another black guy, ok hearns? let's leave the evil
white devils out for a moment.
joe louis, arguably the best heavyweight of all time
would crush tyson. there ya go.
he's almost as big as tyson in the weight dept and is taller
than tyson.
louis would not be intimidated by tyson. he'd get hit
and hit back and tyson would crumble, just like he did
against everyone else who actually fought him back.

tyson = overrated in the historical sense.

tommyhearns804
07-26-2005, 08:37 AM
Lol if Marciano was black he would still get his ass kicked by Tyson.But you are white .You will always give praise to a white fighter over a black one.
Louis is naturally around 200 not 215 or 220.So Marciano beat a washed up fighter who was at his best at around 200 so what is your point?Who did Joe Louis beat?Jack Sharkey?Lol the funny thing about racist whites like you is when you try to make others out to be racist.Joe Louis is black.Jack Johnson was black.Niether could ever beat Marciano or a guy like Dempsey who as we know are both white.All of my favorite atheletes are white besides Tommy Hearns and George Foreman.So if you think i am racist then try again little boy.
Marciano would be destroyed by Tyson because he is to small retard.It has nothing to do with his color.But the reason you think he would win is because he is white.Until Vitali won the title who was the last heavyweight champion who was white?Does this mean white guys can't fight.Again hell no.But you have to fight blacks and whites to be considered great.And the fact is Maricano only fought 5 black fighters as a pro.And all of them gave him a hell of a time.Neither of these fighters were as quick and powerful as Tyson.Infact none were naturally heavyweight.Louis would be a big cruiserweight today.
Marciano isnt a heavyweight period.To say he could beat any decent heavyweight is absurd.Do you see any other 180 pound fighter moving up to heavyweight and knocking out anybody?Hell no.Jone and Toney moved up and fought Ruiz who is naturally a 180 to 90 pound man.And neither knocked him out.Why would Marciano be able to move up and knock out guys like Bowe,Lewis ect ect ect?Because he is white?
Man this is getting old.No matter how nice you try to make this some whites will always have to pull Maricano out of their ass.Marciano so strong and tough bull****.Marciano was tough for a 180 pound fighter fighting other 180 pound fighters.Tyson has made a living out of knocking out 220 pound men.Tyson is a heavyweight Marciano isn't.Marciano would be destroyed.But anyway why bother to explain this.You are white so you will try to build up Marciano to something he will never be.Most young black guys will try to build up Tyson to soemthing he never was.
But Tyson still owns any slow handed weak 180 pound fighter.

TheEvilSaint
07-26-2005, 08:51 AM
hell, bonecrusher smith, james tillis, tony tucker, and mitch green all went the distance with a prime mike tyson.

if they could, surely the man with the chin of platinum (whats stronger than platinum?), the heart of a giant, the stamina to last forever, and the power of Superman could not only take Tyson's punches, but also give them back.

Marciano by KO in the mid-late rounds.

kapersky
07-26-2005, 08:56 AM
all this bs about how marciano would destoy tyson make me sick. :eek: for a 180pounds guy yes he is very tough and hard. but if you think he could beat tyson then you are f*ck

tommyhearns804
07-26-2005, 08:59 AM
And just to prove my point which is whites only think Marciano could beat 220 plus pound heavyweights because he is white .
O'Neil Bell is far more skilled than Maricano.Bell actually fights black men in their primes.Bell is 24-1 with 22 ko's which means he can punch.Sure he got a gift whin in his last fight but Marciano got 2 gift decisions earlier in his career as well.Ted Lowry who was 57-46 at the time he fought Marciano and he beat Marciano but was robbed.LaStarza was also beat Marciano and got robbed.
But anyway how many of you think Bell could knock out Lewis or Foreman or a prime Tyson?None of you that is how many.And sure you will say well Marciano is better than Bell.But how do you figure this?If Marciano had to get a gift decision over a guy with almost 50 loses on his record then why would you assume he could beat a guy like Bell?If glass chin guy with no punching power like Charles could stand toe to toe with Marciano then why wouldnt a superior fight like Bell couldn't do the same?
Bell would get his azz handed to him if he tried to slug it out with any 220 plus pound white black rican asian mexican heavyweight with any power and wasnt a complete bum.
It is possible however for a guy Bell size to fight guys naturally bigger and stronger than him and out box them.The problem with that is Marciano couldn't box.He had no jab to speak of.His hand speed was horrible.His game plan was to come foward and try to knock you out.Again sure this worked against other fighters his size but this would be suicide against any true heavyweight who wasn't a complete bum.
So lasty ignore rico.Anything you say to a white guy is racist unless you kiss his ass.I could care less what skin color you are.Infact just a week ago me and my nephew got into a heated discussion about just because you are black you can beat a white guy.Which as we all know is bull.Size is important in boxing.That is why there are weight classes.You don't see featherweights fighting middle weights do you?Size is the most important factor in this.Skill can be second.Toughness is unimpotant for the most part.Chuvalo was tough as hell but did it help him against Foreman?Frazier was tough but was destroyed.Toughness helps if you break your hand or knows or ribs and keep fighting through the pain.Toughness has nothing to do with a guy landing a punch that bounces your brain around your skull and renders you unconcious.
Marciano is a average fighter who would never beat the likes of Tyson so deal with it.I know my boxing and you evidently do not. :boxing:

TheEvilSaint
07-26-2005, 09:00 AM
all this bs about how marciano would destoy tyson make me sick. :eek: for a 180pounds guy yes he is very tough and hard. but if you think he could beat tyson then you are f*ck
"then you are f*ck?" what does it mean to be ****?

all of a sudden, a 180lb man cant take a 220lb man's punch?
u wanna tell that to joe louis who was a 210lb powerpuncher and who threw everything he had at rocky and couldnt even faze him?

get ur facts straight, dumass.

TheEvilSaint
07-26-2005, 09:02 AM
And just to prove my point which is whites only think Marciano could beat 220 plus pound heavyweights because he is white .
O'Neil Bell is far more skilled than Maricano.Bell actually fights black men in their primes.Bell is 24-1 with 22 ko's which means he can punch.Sure he got a gift whin in his last fight but Marciano got 2 gift decisions earlier in his career as well.Ted Lowry who was 57-46 at the time he fought Marciano and he beat Marciano but was robbed.LaStarza was also beat Marciano and got robbed.
But anyway how many of you think Bell could knock out Lewis or Foreman or a prime Tyson?None of you that is how many.And sure you will say well Marciano is better than Bell.But how do you figure this?If Marciano had to get a gift decision over a guy with almost 50 loses on his record then why would you assume he could beat a guy like Bell?If glass chin guy with no punching power like Charles could stand toe to toe with Marciano then why wouldnt a superior fight like Bell couldn't do the same?
Bell would get his azz handed to him if he tried to slug it out with any 220 plus pound white black rican asian mexican heavyweight with any power and wasnt a complete bum.
It is possible however for a guy Bell size to fight guys naturally bigger and stronger than him and out box them.The problem with that is Marciano couldn't box.He had no jab to speak of.His hand speed was horrible.His game plan was to come foward and try to knock you out.Again sure this worked against other fighters his size but this would be suicide against any true heavyweight who wasn't a complete bum.
So lasty ignore rico.Anything you say to a white guy is racist unless you kiss his ass.I could care less what skin color you are.Infact just a week ago me and my nephew got into a heated discussion about just because you are black you can beat a white guy.Which as we all know is bull.Size is important in boxing.That is why there are weight classes.You don't see featherweights fighting middle weights do you?Size is the most important factor in this.Skill can be second.Toughness is unimpotant for the most part.Chuvalo was tough as hell but did it help him against Foreman?Frazier was tough but was destroyed.Toughness helps if you break your hand or knows or ribs and keep fighting through the pain.Toughness has nothing to do with a guy landing a punch that bounces your brain around your skull and renders you unconcious.
Marciano is a average fighter who would never beat the likes of Tyson so deal with it.I know my boxing and you evidently do not. :boxing:
this is one of the dumbest posts anyone has ever posted.

uncle_rico
07-26-2005, 10:46 AM
And just to prove my point which is whites only think Marciano could beat 220 plus pound heavyweights because he is white .
O'Neil Bell is far more skilled than Maricano.Bell actually fights black men in their primes.Bell is 24-1 with 22 ko's which means he can punch.Sure he got a gift whin in his last fight but Marciano got 2 gift decisions earlier in his career as well.Ted Lowry who was 57-46 at the time he fought Marciano and he beat Marciano but was robbed.LaStarza was also beat Marciano and got robbed.
But anyway how many of you think Bell could knock out Lewis or Foreman or a prime Tyson?None of you that is how many.And sure you will say well Marciano is better than Bell.But how do you figure this?If Marciano had to get a gift decision over a guy with almost 50 loses on his record then why would you assume he could beat a guy like Bell?If glass chin guy with no punching power like Charles could stand toe to toe with Marciano then why wouldnt a superior fight like Bell couldn't do the same?
Bell would get his azz handed to him if he tried to slug it out with any 220 plus pound white black rican asian mexican heavyweight with any power and wasnt a complete bum.
It is possible however for a guy Bell size to fight guys naturally bigger and stronger than him and out box them.The problem with that is Marciano couldn't box.He had no jab to speak of.His hand speed was horrible.His game plan was to come foward and try to knock you out.Again sure this worked against other fighters his size but this would be suicide against any true heavyweight who wasn't a complete bum.
So lasty ignore rico.Anything you say to a white guy is racist unless you kiss his ass.I could care less what skin color you are.Infact just a week ago me and my nephew got into a heated discussion about just because you are black you can beat a white guy.Which as we all know is bull.Size is important in boxing.That is why there are weight classes.You don't see featherweights fighting middle weights do you?Size is the most important factor in this.Skill can be second.Toughness is unimpotant for the most part.Chuvalo was tough as hell but did it help him against Foreman?Frazier was tough but was destroyed.Toughness helps if you break your hand or knows or ribs and keep fighting through the pain.Toughness has nothing to do with a guy landing a punch that bounces your brain around your skull and renders you unconcious.
Marciano is a average fighter who would never beat the likes of Tyson so deal with it.I know my boxing and you evidently do not. :boxing:

hearns, i'm not racist.

again, please, look at the posts in chronological order,
you and *only you* brought up race.

look man, I happen to like the old fighters.
growing up that's all i heard about.
i got first hand stories of louis and marciano and robinson
and lamotta. so, their not distant ghosts you see on ****ty
film, those guys were real to me.

i happen to like joe louis and marciano.
i happen to think they could beat guys like tua and tyson
( the non mammoth heavies ). would smaller guys have trouble
with bigger guys? sure. that's a valid argument. but i still
think this decade's heavies (including all the white guys!)
suck ass.

all this doesn't make me a racist.

again, you keep focusing on marciano. like i said in my last post, let's forget marciano, cuz you are *extremely* sensitive
to the race issue (if you weren't why would you bother trying to justify your statements by saying "all your fave athletes are white" ?)

but look, let's try this again.

let's forget marciano, you can't see past the color of his skin,
sad but true. let's do it like this. i believe joe louis would beat tyson and tua. ok?

let's argue that point. i don't care about natural this or that.
louis fought plenty at 210. and yeah he was knocked down, and got up and beat asses. when tyson was knocked down or someone fought back he was done. *done*
a guy like that is gonna beat a guy with 25 title defenses?
i disagree. tyson is *barely* bigger than louis and even if louis got knocked down he'd come back and beat tyson.

so, my argument is not "rocky marciano the savior of all us white devils", i just happen to like the older fighters.
and marciano, a white guy, happens to be one of them.

are you offended why i say frazier wear tear tyson apart?
cuz i believe he would. he fought plenty at 205 or 210,
just like louis.

so, if you wanna argue from the "small heavy vs. big heavy", fine, let's do it; it's an interesting argument.
but leave race out of it. i'm not racist, and you were the only one to bring up race. take a step back and read the **** you wrote. please. you'll see not one mention of race was brought up before you brought it up.

M26
07-26-2005, 10:59 AM
hearns, i'm not racist.

again, please, look at the posts in chronological order,
you and *only you* brought up race.

look man, I happen to like the old fighters.
growing up that's all i heard about.
i got first hand stories of louis and marciano and robinson
and lamotta. so, their not distant ghosts you see on ****ty
film, those guys were real to me.

i happen to like joe louis and marciano.
i happen to think they could beat guys like tua and tyson
( the non mammoth heavies ). would smaller guys have trouble
with bigger guys? sure. that's a valid argument. but i still
think this decade's heavies (including all the white guys!)
suck ass.

all this doesn't make me a racist.

again, you keep focusing on marciano. like i said in my last post, let's forget marciano, cuz you are *extremely* sensitive
to the race issue (if you weren't why would you bother trying to justify your statements by saying "all your fave athletes are white" ?)

but look, let's try this again.

let's forget marciano, you can't see past the color of his skin,
sad but true. let's do it like this. i believe joe louis would beat tyson and tua. ok?

let's argue that point. i don't care about natural this or that.
louis fought plenty at 210. and yeah he was knocked down, and got up and beat asses. when tyson was knocked down or someone fought back he was done. *done*
a guy like that is gonna beat a guy with 25 title defenses?
i disagree. tyson is *barely* bigger than louis and even if louis got knocked down he'd come back and beat tyson.

so, my argument is not "rocky marciano the savior of all us white devils", i just happen to like the older fighters.
and marciano, a white guy, happens to be one of them.

are you offended why i say frazier wear tear tyson apart?
cuz i believe he would. he fought plenty at 205 or 210,
just like louis.

so, if you wanna argue from the "small heavy vs. big heavy", fine, let's do it; it's an interesting argument.
but leave race out of it. i'm not racist, and you were the only one to bring up race. take a step back and read the **** you wrote. please. you'll see not one mention of race was brought up before you brought it up.

A great post, man!

tommyhearns804
07-27-2005, 11:44 AM
Lol i never brought up race.I brought up white guys will always pick Marciano and black guys will always pick Tyson.I never said anything about Marciano losing because he was white.
Joe Louis defended the title 25 times so your point is?Do you believe Tyson couldn't beat those same fighters Louis beat?Foreman could of done it Ali could of done it Lewis Bowe Frazier.The list goes on.
Tyson never got up from a knock down and win.Marciano never faced 230 pound fighters like Tyson did period.A guy like Bruno would of crushed any 180 pound fighter like Marciano.Douglas would be to skilled.
Can you name another 180 pound fighter besides Marciano who could do any damage against any decent 220 pound heavyweight?Nope you can't.Marciano would struggle against most cruiserweights.The man wasn't skilled at all.No jab poor handspeed.He struggled with guys like Moore who had the worse chin probably of any fighter to win a title in any weight class.Guys like Jones would be to much for Marciano.So would Toney.
Maybe you have a hard time reading.I can't stand Tyson.The man is a rapist coward.He never beat a top level fighter in his career.He never showed heart in the ring.He is a quitter.But against somebody as small and as slow as Marciano it would not matter.He would steam roll over him.
Because you believe Louis could beat Tua or Tyson proves what?Who did Louis beat in his career?Nobody.He fought bums.Bums usually smaller than he was.Louis was almost knocked out by Billy Conn.Conn had 68 or so wins and 11 ko's but yet he almost knocked out Louis.Louis had a weak chin.Louis wasn't fast on his feet.He went for the ko.Tua would walk through him and knock him out.Tyson would jump all over him and do the same.Louis couldnt beat Marciano so there is no way in hell he could be somebody who was a strong,fast and as powerful as Tyson.
It is nice that you like fighters from the past but get real kid.If you are a fan of heavyweight boxing then you should realize the best era was the 70's then probably the 90's.So many average fighters from today would own the 40's and 50's.
And as i said i am not racist but whites do seem to need Maricano as a savior to them just like young blacks need Tyson or older ones need Joe Louis.Tyson is overrated by he did fight true heavyweights.Marciano did not.Marciano is a cruiserweight so compare him with either small fighters from the past or cruiserweights of today.
One last thing you act like Tyson quits the first time he is hit.Tyson has never been knocked out with one punch.It takes punch after punch after after punch to drop him.Tyson isn't close to being the best fighter of all time but he is far better than Marciano could ever dream of becoming.If you want to praise fighters of the past then pick somebody who actually is worth praising.(Ali Frazier Foreman Norton Robinson Quarry ect ect ect).And another last thing i am not here to argue over something i know is fact.Alot of people here make great post.As is said before of all of the forums i am apart of this one is the best.Most of you here seem to know your boxing.I just get tired of saying the same thing in every post about Marciano.Get the man out of your butt.Why do you think weight classes exist?If it was so easy for a 180 pound man to move up and beat heayvweights by slugging then why havent any done it?

uncle_rico
07-27-2005, 09:51 PM
Lol i never brought up race.I brought up white guys will always pick Marciano and black guys will always pick Tyson.I never said anything about Marciano losing because he was white.
Joe Louis defended the title 25 times so your point is?Do you believe Tyson couldn't beat those same fighters Louis beat?Foreman could of done it Ali could of done it Lewis Bowe Frazier.The list goes on.
Tyson never got up from a knock down and win.Marciano never faced 230 pound fighters like Tyson did period.A guy like Bruno would of crushed any 180 pound fighter like Marciano.Douglas would be to skilled.
Can you name another 180 pound fighter besides Marciano who could do any damage against any decent 220 pound heavyweight?Nope you can't.Marciano would struggle against most cruiserweights.The man wasn't skilled at all.No jab poor handspeed.He struggled with guys like Moore who had the worse chin probably of any fighter to win a title in any weight class.Guys like Jones would be to much for Marciano.So would Toney.
Maybe you have a hard time reading.I can't stand Tyson.The man is a rapist coward.He never beat a top level fighter in his career.He never showed heart in the ring.He is a quitter.But against somebody as small and as slow as Marciano it would not matter.He would steam roll over him.
Because you believe Louis could beat Tua or Tyson proves what?Who did Louis beat in his career?Nobody.He fought bums.Bums usually smaller than he was.Louis was almost knocked out by Billy Conn.Conn had 68 or so wins and 11 ko's but yet he almost knocked out Louis.Louis had a weak chin.Louis wasn't fast on his feet.He went for the ko.Tua would walk through him and knock him out.Tyson would jump all over him and do the same.Louis couldnt beat Marciano so there is no way in hell he could be somebody who was a strong,fast and as powerful as Tyson.
It is nice that you like fighters from the past but get real kid.If you are a fan of heavyweight boxing then you should realize the best era was the 70's then probably the 90's.So many average fighters from today would own the 40's and 50's.
And as i said i am not racist but whites do seem to need Maricano as a savior to them just like young blacks need Tyson or older ones need Joe Louis.Tyson is overrated by he did fight true heavyweights.Marciano did not.Marciano is a cruiserweight so compare him with either small fighters from the past or cruiserweights of today.
One last thing you act like Tyson quits the first time he is hit.Tyson has never been knocked out with one punch.It takes punch after punch after after punch to drop him.Tyson isn't close to being the best fighter of all time but he is far better than Marciano could ever dream of becoming.If you want to praise fighters of the past then pick somebody who actually is worth praising.(Ali Frazier Foreman Norton Robinson Quarry ect ect ect).And another last thing i am not here to argue over something i know is fact.Alot of people here make great post.As is said before of all of the forums i am apart of this one is the best.Most of you here seem to know your boxing.I just get tired of saying the same thing in every post about Marciano.Get the man out of your butt.Why do you think weight classes exist?If it was so easy for a 180 pound man to move up and beat heayvweights by slugging then why havent any done it?

great. made some progress...

"Tua would walk through him and knock him out.Tyson would jump all over him and do the same.Louis couldnt beat Marciano so there is no way in hell he could be somebody who was a strong,fast and as powerful as Tyson."

ok, so, throwing out all the white/black and who you think white people like or whatever, there's the difference of opinion right there "there is no way in hell he could be somebody who was a strong,fast and as powerful as Tyson."

i totally disagree.

how do you know how fast louis was? based on what, black and white film that makes even ray robinson look ****ty? please. louis was fast and strong and got put on his ass to only get up and knock people out.
you think louis, arguably the best hw of all time, could not beat tua or tyson? i believe he would be both of them.
so, there ya go.
louis was taller and only a few pounds lighter than tyson and even if he gets knocked down, he'll get up and beat tyson.
you can't judge louis' power based on some crappy film you see of him.
if you wanna disagree, cool, i think we've gotten passed the race card, so, feel free to disagree.
oh, and from your posts, i can see you dislike tyson
and i never implied you like him at all.
i just think you don't give joe louis enough credit.

tommyhearns804
07-28-2005, 04:24 AM
Rico then how do you know Louis was fast?Black and white footage or green and blue footage the man was flat footed.And the fact he got up from knock downs prove what?Look who put him down to began with.Guys usually smaller than himself which was under 200 pounds.He never got tagged by anybody with Foreman level punching power.Or somebody with a right hand like Lewis.Louis deserves no credit.Just like a guy like Jack Johnson before him.To be considered great you need to fight and beat great fighters.Ali is great.Foreman is great,Frazier,and Norton are great.Louis has a padded record fighting bums.As i said Rico if Foreman Bowe Lewis Ali Frazier Lyle ect ect ect could of fought the guys Louis or Marciano fought do you think they would of lost?Nope i know you don't.25 title defenses mean he was fight garbage fighters.Just look at a guy like ummm lets say Foreman .Foreman won the title from hall of famer in Frazier and only defended 2 times before losing to another great in Ali.Louis won the title from a nobody just like Marciano did and fought nobody doing his time as champ.When Louis stepped up in class he got his butt whipped.First by Walcott who is a average fighter.He lost more than 20 times and was knocked out at least 5.But Walcott crushed Louis in their first fight and was robbed and was clearly winning the second before Louis got lucky and caught him.Next Charles a natural middleweight beat up Louis.Neither Walcott or Charles are in Tysons level.So Tyson would beat Louis easier than they did.
I base what i am saying on the facts.Not what i want to see.Again Marciano isnt a heavyweight.He is a cruiserweight.A small cruiserweight at that.No other cruiserweight moved up to fight real heavyweights and had any sucess by slugging with them.None.0.Holyfield was bigger than Marciano and he never just stood their and slugged it out.Holyfield had fast hands,he could counter punch,He could box.Marciano could not and as i said he was even smaller than Holyfield.So logic would be since no other figher who weighed 180 pounds could do it then Marciano would fail as well.Marciano isn't special.Second Louis was slow footed and had a weak chin.Again he was almost knocked out by a middleweight who couldnt punch even as a middleweight in Conn.Yet con had Louis holding on trying to avoid being knocked out.If Conn could do it then you know the likes of Tua Foreman Lyle Bowe Lewis Vitali K and Wladamir K ect ect ct would have enough power to finish him.I love old time fighters just as much as the next man but trying to say no current fighter could beat any old time fighter is just being a little silly don't you think?

uncle_rico
07-28-2005, 10:13 PM
"but trying to say no current fighter could beat any old time fighter is just being a little silly don't you think?"

agreed. today's athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster than ever. i am totally cognizant of that fact, trust me.

but i wasn't talking about foreman and lewis in this thread
(at least i don't think i was), i was talking about tyson and tua (actually i started by saying marciano could beat tyson, then moved onto louis could be tyson to get off the whole black/white thing).
tyson and tua are both shorter than louis and are not much heavier.
so, i don't think size is an issue and i don't think tyson is that much more powerful than louis. i honestly think poor footage of those old fights dont do him justice.
and besides flat feet doesnt mean lack of hand speed and upper body movement.
pbf was flat footed all night against gatti and he was as fast as hell.

so, would big guys like lewis and foreman give smaller heavies the marciano and louis problems, sure, but would guys like tyson and tua? sure, it'd be tough fights, but at the end of the day it would be a battle of wills.
we both know tyson would quit, tua prolly wouldnt, but he'd still lose.
in anycse, i think you give these guys (especially tua) way too much credit.

i think we just have to agree to disagree on this one...

tommyhearns804
07-29-2005, 03:51 AM
Both Tyson and Tua weighed about 220 or so in their primes.Marciano weighed about 185 that is 35 pounds.Loius was only about 200 pounds so they have 25 pounds on him.Tyson quit once and that was to Mcbride a 6'6 260 or so pound fighter.Sure Mrbride is a bum well at least a bum compared to any decent 220 modern heavyweight but he is younger and freshed than Tyson is now.Tyson never quit before.Tyson would not quit against a fighter like Marciano.Why would he?Marciano would not make it out of round one.Tyson is to big and powerful for him period.Tua never quit period.And Tua has a better chin than Tyson so why would he quit against Marciano when there is no way Marciano could hurt him?He would not and Marciano would be knocked out in one round by him as well.
I mention Louis was flat footed because to beat Tyson or Tua usually you have to move.Or have a great chin.Louis did not move well and his chin was shaky at best.Again Conn a middleweight almost knocked him out.Louis could never win against Tua or Tyson but just standing there trying to bang.If Walcott could drop Louis with one punch then Tua and Tyson could.The only differnce is Tyson and Tua punches alot harder than Walcott.So i don't see how anybody could say Louis was anything more than a 200 pound man who fought stiffs for all of his career.Loius never beat a fighter like Tyson in Tua in his career and he never would.

M26
07-29-2005, 06:05 AM
Both Tyson and Tua weighed about 220 or so in their primes.Marciano weighed about 185 that is 35 pounds.Loius was only about 200 pounds so they have 25 pounds on him.Tyson quit once and that was to Mcbride a 6'6 260 or so pound fighter.Sure Mrbride is a bum well at least a bum compared to any decent 220 modern heavyweight but he is younger and freshed than Tyson is now.Tyson never quit before.Tyson would not quit against a fighter like Marciano.Why would he?Marciano would not make it out of round one.Tyson is to big and powerful for him period.Tua never quit period.And Tua has a better chin than Tyson so why would he quit against Marciano when there is no way Marciano could hurt him?He would not and Marciano would be knocked out in one round by him as well.
I mention Louis was flat footed because to beat Tyson or Tua usually you have to move.Or have a great chin.Louis did not move well and his chin was shaky at best.Again Conn a middleweight almost knocked him out.Louis could never win against Tua or Tyson but just standing there trying to bang.If Walcott could drop Louis with one punch then Tua and Tyson could.The only differnce is Tyson and Tua punches alot harder than Walcott.So i don't see how anybody could say Louis was anything more than a 200 pound man who fought stiffs for all of his career.Loius never beat a fighter like Tyson in Tua in his career and he never would.

I see your point on the weight issue. To have 30 lbs on someone is alot! But a fight is not based on weight alone. I can easily see Marciano in trouble against Tyson like you claim, but at the same time - Marciano would come right at him, something Tyson hated. And Marciano would never, ever give up or stop throwing punches. Tyson has no heart and I can imagine him crying in his corner like a sobbing "girly-man" (gotta love Schwarzenegger :) ) after a few of Marcianos clubbing shots. Marciano on the other hand, would probably be shaken up from Tyson lightening strikes in the first round, but he would not lose faith. He never did.

To put it this way, if Tyson had half of Marcianos heart, he would have knocked out Douglas back in 1990.

In the second round, Tyson would be a little more hesistant and careful than he was in the first. He would now know that Marciano had the power to hurt him and that he would not fall at once like the frightened Spinks or the outclassed M. Frazier. "No, this guy is here to fight... Damn!" Marciano would come out, even stronger in this round, as he always grew stronger during the fight. Tyson slower pace would make it easier for Marciano to deliver his crashing blows and Tyson would be backed up for a bit. In between the second and third round his personal demons (and he had a few) would start whispering in his ear - "This guy aint scared of ya! He wants to take you out. He's hurtin ya, but you can't hurt him".

In the third round, Tyson would come out with desperation in his eyes, and try to take Marciano the hell outta there. There would be a slugfest with both guys taking and delivering hard shots. This is where Tyson either gets a tko or Marciano survives the round, just to come back and knock Tyson out later on.

I have always been firm in my belief that Tyson would be too much for Marciano, much because of the Foreman-Frazier outcome. But I have later realized that Tyson was never a Foreman, and that he lacked the heart to slug it out with someone who could hurt him. And Marciano had more power than any of Tysons foes. Granted, Lewis had a lot of power as well, but he DID knock Tyson out.

I will change my earlier view on this matter and give Marciano the nod.

Rocky Marciano by tko7.

M26
07-29-2005, 06:13 AM
When it comes to Joe Louis, I rate him the greatest heavyweight of them all. There is no question about his speed. It is a well-known fact that Louis had handspeed at Tyson/Ali level. At the same time he was the most flawless fighter I have ever seen in the heavyweight division. Adding his recuperative ability and his punching power, and you got yourself a fighting machine.

He would counter and tie up Tyson from the get go, and hurt him with ripping shots. I see Tyson taking boxing lessons and falling down lessons the whole fight through, with it ending in a brutal ko10.

Tua hardly deserves mentioning, and I pity the fool who thinks he could defeat Joe Louis.

tommyhearns804
07-29-2005, 06:29 AM
Joe Louis would beat Tua or Tyson just like he did Maricano .Laying flat on his back.

uncle_rico
07-29-2005, 01:21 PM
i can't fathom how tyson and tua can be spoken in the same breath as greats like marciano and louis.
why? cuz i have friends and familiy who have actually seen
marciano and louis fight live and have seen tyson
fight on tv. and i hear the same from each of them;
louis is as good or better than tyson. same for marciano.

now ofcourse someone like hearns will counter that
with some retarded comment like:

"your family says that cuz you're white and that's what all white people say"

ofourse that's what hearns would say, he's extremely predictable.
how do i know? cuz that's a typical douche bag response from
a typical douche bag. someone who, when they have no real proof to their argument, has to get mad and start talking about race or ethnic background cuz someone disagrees with them.

there's words to describe people like that; "ignorant", "classless", "patheric" are a few that come to mind...

people on this list see tyson and watch him on tv
with close ups so close you can see his sweat and blood.
then they watch a louis or marciano fight on some ****ty vhs or espn classic with the camera so far away you can barely see the fighters faces, let alone handspeed or sweat and blood.

and these same people think they can judge how fast and strong marciano or louis is by that!

ofcourse louis looked horrible on those films.
who would look good? you can't see anything?

that's the main problem.

technology is *awesome* today.
you watch a fight and you really see how fast and strong
guys are.
look at the pbf gatti fight, every punch to gatti's head
you saw so cleanly. you see the bruises, the sweat flying off
his face, you can see how hard these punches are.
in todays fights you can see body shots and the how the skins
ripples after the punch.

you just can't see that with the old footage so ofcourse
you can't see how fast and hard these guys punch.

really, i'd like to hear the opions of people like angelo dundee.
i'd like to hear what these old guys who've actually seen
the old and current guys fight have to say.

Ali_is_the_greatest17
07-29-2005, 06:43 PM
I cant see tyson beating Rocky..in fact I cant see Rocky losing to anyone (besides Ali) because hes undefeated! I think it will be close throughout the fight. But Rocky can take punches and Tyson cant take punches..he showed that in the douglas fight. I think it will turn out to be a split desicion for Rocky. It will be a bloody mess and faces will be swelled up, but Rocky can take that kind of punishment.

tommyhearns804
07-29-2005, 10:32 PM
Lol rico your family is white.So your family is retarded.Of course they are going to say some little white boy is just as good as any black man.You are white.Nothing you say will bother me or prove anything.Black men rule the sport or boxing.So evidently being black or white means something.Lol you act like because footage is black or white it has something to do with how a fighter looks.
Kid you are a moron.Marciano looked impressive fighter mostly other slow small white guys,Tyson looked impressive fighter mostly 220 plus pound black men.Beating a 180 pound fighter and beating a good 220 pound fighter are 2 different things.And ooohhh your family likes Joe Louis?And?Louis was half white.And alot of white people try to find some black or half black to like to say they aren't racist.So your point is?
Louis looked impressive beating up small white guys.But when he fought a black fighter he got his ass kicked so again i guess being black means something doesn't it?
Haha and ot Ali is the greatest when the hell did Marciano show he can handle a 220 pound mans punch?He was dropped by Moore a middleweight.He was dropped by Walcott a 190 pound fighter.But he could handle a 220 pounds man punch like Tyson?Lol get the fuk out of here.Tyson would crush him.So would Foreman Bowe Lewis Tua Lyle Frazier Norton Ibeabuchi Peters ect ect ect.
If it wasn't for complete idiots or racist morons like you this would be the best boxing forum there is.

tommyhearns804
07-29-2005, 10:35 PM
Infact i am done responding to this subject.Evidently whites like you are to stupid to grasp any logical point so why bother trying?There are tons of other whites and blacks who make post here who know what they are talking about.I don't know why i wasted on second on some complete fool with his head stuck up his azz.Bye bye.Don't respond to any of my post any more and i won't respond to you.

uncle_rico
07-30-2005, 10:50 AM
hehe, that was classic. hearns is too dumb to realize his answers only support my comments about him.
hehe, amazing.

rico: "now ofcourse someone like hearns will counter that
with some retarded comment like:

"your family says that cuz you're white and that's
what all white people say"

ofourse that's what hearns would say, *he's extremely predictable.*
how do i know? cuz that's a typical douche bag response from
a typical douche bag. "

hearns: "rico your family is white.So your family is retarded.Of course they are going to say some little white boy is just as good as any black man.You are white.Nothing you say will bother me or prove anything.Black men rule the sport or boxing."


geez, did i call it or what? this guy is textbook...


hearns: "Evidently whites like you are to stupid to grasp any logical point so why bother trying?"

uh, logical point? sorry douche bag, it's *speculation*, hypothetical discussion, understand? there is no logical point to any of it.
dumb ass. it's all opinion, that's what makes these discussions interesting and a fact that you cannot seem to grasp. this is a place to discuss unreal, hypothetical matchups. a place where people can postulate why someone from 50 years ago might/might not beat someone today and instead of listening/appreciating/being amused by different points of view from people all over the world (about something that can never even happen!!) you get all upset and bring up race and ethnicity _each_and_everytime_
please find one, just one, post about marciano that you participated in and did not mention his race or ethnic background, i bet you can't.

again hearns, you're the only one who brings up black and white.
read this whole post from start to finish. the words "black" and "white" were first introduced by non other than you.
you're the racist. undestand? sadly enough, even on an online forum you're too much of a ***** to admit it. and you say gay **** like "my favorite athletes are white" to prove what? that you're not racist. lol, what's wrong with you? at least have the nuts to admit what you are if you're gonna get all pissy about this ****. if you at least admit it, you won't sound so retarded when you go off on a tangent about race everytime someone talks about marciano, cuz then people will know, "ok, that's hearns' response, he's a racist douche bag, so ofcourse he'll have to comment on a fighter's race to try to get his point across".
see? now people will understand your posts.
oh, and i like louis cuz he's half white? lol. where do you get some of this ****? honestly...

grant555
07-30-2005, 11:53 PM
Mike Tyson in his prime, say 20 yrs ago, would have beaten Marciano because of his strength, but man what a fight it would've been. Great question to put on the thread though.

tommyhearns804
07-31-2005, 01:15 AM
Yeah i would of been a great fight Tyson landing 2 or so punches and Marciano beaing knocked out laying on his back looking at the sky.

tommyhearns804
07-31-2005, 01:19 AM
Lol Joe Louis Barrow is half white because he is.Learn about a fighter before you start to type.Lol why do you think Louis was so light?Because he was pure black?You keep bringing up color little child and then when i set you straight you say i use some racial bull shyt.
The only thing i said about color is blacks will pick Tyson because he is black and whites will pick Maricano because he is white.Tyson would crush Marciano because he was a pathetic little boxer with no skills.Tyson would crush Marciano because Tyson isn't a 180 pound fighter controlled by the Mafia..Tyson could crush Marciano because Marciano was probably one of the worse boxers who ever claimed a title in any weight class.That is why Tyson would crush Marciano

uncle_rico
07-31-2005, 08:21 AM
"Lol Joe Louis Barrow is half white because he is.Learn about a fighter before you start to type."

no joke, you're just a prick. yeah, i need to know a guys exact race and ethnic background to like him as a fighter?
what's wrong with you? why would i need to know that? who honestly cares and what difference does it make?

"Lol why do you think Louis was so light?Because he was pure black?"
i dunno? why is colin powell so light?
both his parents are black, from jamacia as a matter of fact,
right?

but more importantly, unless you judge fighters by race, why would it matter?

"Tyson would crush Marciano because he was a pathetic little boxer with no skills."

hehe, guess what slick? too late. now you wanna give valid reasons for tyson beating marciano? don;t think so.
had you said that in the first place, fine. but you didn't/couldn't. you couldnt seem to get your point across without bringup up race. so don't try
and be diplomatic now. you said what you said, at least have
the nuts between your legs to stand by it. racist *****.

what's funny is, i bet hearns aint even black. i bet he's some dopey white kid who lives at home with his mom, works at like some used record store and wears tupac t-shirts and bandanas and thinks he's "from the street". lol. i bet that's it.
is that it hearns? you a wanna be? just some little angry white kid who has too much time on his hands? do you really look like jason litztau?
or maybe hearns really is black. perhaps some middle aged
black guy with with an incredibly menial job with pathetic pay who lives home with his mom and blames "the man" for his ****ty job/salary. is that is? is that why white fighters suck and blacks dominate boxing?sports?the world? is that it princess?
it's painfully obvious how much the preference of a fighter like marciano (evil white devil) over mike tyson (cherubic black savior) bothers you and affects *all your posts*. one has to wonder why...

in any case, may be i guessed wrong about hearns being white or black, but he defintely lives at home with his mom and defintely is pathetic.

rocco1252
07-31-2005, 11:58 PM
I love this question no doubt, it has been asked numerous times and I continue to answer it just to get my opinion heard.
When we discuss great fighters we have to look at everything from the beginning of their career to the end of their career. Mike Tyson for example was a very good boxer he had hand speed, head movement and power behind a short stalky frame that was just all muscle plain and simple. The problem with Tyson was he was very good in his early years, he was on the path to becoming great and possibly even one of the top 10 heavy weights of all time. However Tyson didnt have heart, and after his stint in jail and he found someone who could with stand him he failed the rest of his career. He lacked heart and he lacked desire and hunger throughout his latter half of his career.
Marciano at "Great Fighter" was the total package, what everyone doesnt realize is that Marciano was the underdog his whole career, reports used to say he was going to lose every fight because of his poor fight style. Marciano had power in both hands in his record breaking short arms for a heavyweight, he had raw hunger for victory. Marciano was able to fight deep into fights and some how still possessed the power in his hands to knock a man clean out. He was short, thin, and light compared to most fighters of his era and that never made a difference, he had heart and hunger and that why he would have beat Tyson.
Marciano over Tyson in KO fasion I dont see Tyson being able to last late into the fight because both men could take incredible punishment but only one of them could last 12 rounds and still KO out!

rocco1252
08-01-2005, 12:11 AM
The only fighter I could honestly say Marciano would have a tough time with if not lose to would be Foreman. Look at the fight style's of Marciano and Frazier very similar and look at the how Ali faced up with Frazier in those 3 bouts, and Marciano would be the same way no quit attitude, even more heart and power than Frazier and I think Ali would be in alittle more trouble with Marciano than he was with Frazier. The have the come foward style which gave Ali alittle trouble. Foreman had the same style (come foward but he had size and power on his side thats why Frazier had some much trouble with him because the same styles clashed and one was just bigger than the other. Marciano would have the same problem with Foreman and would keep up with Ali like Frazier did. Tyson now on the other hand had problems with people who could stay with him, he was powerful and big yes but with someone who had the same style as Tyson minus all the defense was Marciano. He didnt need the defense though in the end he had the heart and he had power in both hands just like Tyson. And for your black person comment I dont see what your talking about, unfortunately for you white men were the first champions for the first half of boxing career and yeah blacks have it now but theres just not enough white men wanting to beat one another up any more they grew alittle bit smarter!

ricecrispi
08-01-2005, 12:19 AM
Easy answer. Look at the guys fight back grounds.

Tyson
Pros. He is a freak of a fighter who has explosive power, great hand speed, and agility. In his prime his weaving and duck was top notch and not only that he washard to hit, he could expose you and exploit it with a clean hard punch or a combo. Solid chin but also as we know now, prone to quit. Tyson also got cut easily around the eyes
Cons.
Tyson gets frustrated after not getting his way in the ring. He doesn't like going the distance and always goes for the early KO and if he doesn't he fades and isn't as effective because he throws single punches instead of combos. Still dangerous with single punch KO.

Marciano
Pros. Ko puncher in both hands and with a single punch. Very aggressive and likes to swarm. Defense has above average but he got hit when he traded punches. Solid chin and never gave up.
Cons. He was unskilled and did not have a set up offense and trading punches too often and sometimes taking 4-5 punchs for a good one. He got cut easily and his style was simple so he could lose by point in a 12 round fight more often.

Marciano and Tyson would met head on and with MArciano style he would go after Mike and mike avoiding him easily. Marciano get hit alot with bombs and get knocked down even 1-2 times the first round or two. Tyson is just to quick and fast for Marciano. Tyson is like nothin Marciano has ever seen and Marciano looks beat up already.

Problem for Mike is Marciano gets up everytime after a knockdown and he gets discouraged. Tyson will slow down and when Tyson starts throwing single punch and trade punchs with Marciano, Tyson gets caught with a solid left and goes down for good.

Tha Greatest
08-01-2005, 12:39 AM
Tyson does not respond well with fighters with heart...


Rocky Marciano was one of the most relentless, courageous, warriors in the history of the sport...

Ali_is_the_greatest17
08-02-2005, 01:32 PM
I think Rocky will win because he can box...Tyson cant box, he's just a hard puncher...thats all.
Rocky can take punches and Tyson cant.
Rocky has a style that can beat Tyson's style.
And to sum it all up...Rocky is just a better fighter than Tyson.

Rocky by KO.

Cambria
08-03-2005, 03:13 AM
Lol if Marciano was black he would still get his ass kicked by Tyson.But you are white .You will always give praise to a white fighter over a black one.
Louis is naturally around 200 not 215 or 220.So Marciano beat a washed up fighter who was at his best at around 200 so what is your point?Who did Joe Louis beat?Jack Sharkey?Lol the funny thing about racist whites like you is when you try to make others out to be racist.Joe Louis is black.Jack Johnson was black.Niether could ever beat Marciano or a guy like Dempsey who as we know are both white.All of my favorite atheletes are white besides Tommy Hearns and George Foreman.So if you think i am racist then try again little boy.
Marciano would be destroyed by Tyson because he is to small retard.It has nothing to do with his color.But the reason you think he would win is because he is white.Until Vitali won the title who was the last heavyweight champion who was white?Does this mean white guys can't fight.Again hell no.But you have to fight blacks and whites to be considered great.And the fact is Maricano only fought 5 black fighters as a pro.And all of them gave him a hell of a time.Neither of these fighters were as quick and powerful as Tyson.Infact none were naturally heavyweight.Louis would be a big cruiserweight today.
Marciano isnt a heavyweight period.To say he could beat any decent heavyweight is absurd.Do you see any other 180 pound fighter moving up to heavyweight and knocking out anybody?Hell no.Jone and Toney moved up and fought Ruiz who is naturally a 180 to 90 pound man.And neither knocked him out.Why would Marciano be able to move up and knock out guys like Bowe,Lewis ect ect ect?Because he is white?
Man this is getting old.No matter how nice you try to make this some whites will always have to pull Maricano out of their ass.Marciano so strong and tough bull****.Marciano was tough for a 180 pound fighter fighting other 180 pound fighters.Tyson has made a living out of knocking out 220 pound men.Tyson is a heavyweight Marciano isn't.Marciano would be destroyed.But anyway why bother to explain this.You are white so you will try to build up Marciano to something he will never be.Most young black guys will try to build up Tyson to soemthing he never was.
But Tyson still owns any slow handed weak 180 pound fighter.


I understand your points, kind of but Tyson can't take a punch. That wasn't exposed till he lost to Douglas. All fighters up until that point were intimidated by him. Most fighters pre 1980 weren't afraid to fight anyone. Boxers of Marciano's era wore very little padding also. I think Tyson would get his feelings hurt in a fight against Marciano.

rologodoy
08-03-2005, 07:29 AM
Rocky all the way. No contest. Marciano was the best fighter ever, period. Proof of that is that he never lost a fight and fought fighters who were thirty to forty pounds heavier. Marciano was a one punch knockout artist. Marciano would have beaten James Braddock (who was portrayed by that Australian in a recent movie) probably in two rounds. It took Joe Louis eight rounds to put the lights out on Braddock. Marciano would have knocked out Muhammad Ali in five or six rounds. Marciano in a fight never lost his cool, he was the perfect fighting machine. Louis could have never beaten Rocky.

Dempsey 1919
10-27-2005, 04:34 PM
Lol rico your family is white.So your family is retarded.Of course they are going to say some little white boy is just as good as any black man.You are white.Nothing you say will bother me or prove anything.Black men rule the sport or boxing.So evidently being black or white means something.Lol you act like because footage is black or white it has something to do with how a fighter looks.
Kid you are a moron.Marciano looked impressive fighter mostly other slow small white guys,Tyson looked impressive fighter mostly 220 plus pound black men.Beating a 180 pound fighter and beating a good 220 pound fighter are 2 different things.And ooohhh your family likes Joe Louis?And?Louis was half white.And alot of white people try to find some black or half black to like to say they aren't racist.So your point is?
Louis looked impressive beating up small white guys.But when he fought a black fighter he got his ass kicked so again i guess being black means something doesn't it?
Haha and ot Ali is the greatest when the hell did Marciano show he can handle a 220 pound mans punch?He was dropped by Moore a middleweight.He was dropped by Walcott a 190 pound fighter.But he could handle a 220 pounds man punch like Tyson?Lol get the fuk out of here.Tyson would crush him.So would Foreman Bowe Lewis Tua Lyle Frazier Norton Ibeabuchi Peters ect ect ect.
If it wasn't for complete idiots or racist morons like you this would be the best boxing forum there is.
this crap is so funny. tommyhearns804 should go on standup comedy for his racist hotheaded replies.

Verstyle
10-27-2005, 04:41 PM
this crap is so funny. tommyhearns804 should go on standup comedy for his racist hotheaded replies.


he is a racist biased person and he hates tyson. and this is coming from someone thats black.which is me :D

Dempsey 1919
10-27-2005, 05:36 PM
he may be, but he is funny as well. Joe louis ko'd by tyson LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kid dynamite
12-09-2005, 12:29 AM
How would Marciano respond if Tyson bit his ear, it needs to be considered. :)
he would definitely go after tyson in a rage that hasn't been seen in his way of fighting ..i think he would just continue to fight and his emotional response to it would be to 'kill him.

Dempsey 1919
12-09-2005, 04:43 PM
marciano is too small, so tyson crushes him in one.

Brockton Lip
12-09-2005, 05:08 PM
Hah, I hope you're joking. Marciano knocked out in the first round is ridiculous. He might take a beating at first but he wouldn't get knocked out.

Da Iceman
12-09-2005, 05:19 PM
he would take a beating like he did walcott and come back maybe 7'th or 8'th round and ko an exhausted tyson

TuPrincipe
12-09-2005, 11:16 PM
You make some good points but i simply have to disagree, simply cos the type of training either received.

I mean you look at modern day, the nutrionalists and all that, then you look at what resources Rocky had available to him. Simple Rocky would not be able to keep up with the requirememnts of a modern day boxer like Tyson with all his power, far exceeding that of Rocky's and also lets not forget that Rocky's chin was only tested by the men he fought. Tyson's chin has been tested by the likes of some of the heaviest hitters the world has ever seen.

Sorry but Tyson by late KO/TKO in my opinion.

It doesn't matter what era you are from.

Just because the training is perceived to be "better" does not mean jack squat when you get down to it. The fighters today are bigger, stronger, and sometimes faster. Does that mean they can throw straight, textbook punches? Keep in mind, I'm not referencing to Marciano but the overall cliche of today's fighters being better then yesterday's fighters. WRONG on all counts!!

Today's fighters are protected by business interests and the big money pay-off of a PPV extravaganza. But don’t try and convince me that they are "better" because they fight today, as opposed to yesterday.

Rocky's tenacious nature, awkward style and tremendous physical gifts would provide any opponent with a serious problem. Any fighter can be beat on any given day (boxing is a see-saw battle of wills and jigsaw esque style clashes), but Marciano's 49-0 (above all else) represents he came into every fight with the intentions to do everything in his very great power to come through the victor. He's too much man for Tyson, and this would be the ultimate factor.

Not only is your explanation wrong IMO, but it is terribly naive just to make the assumption that today's fighters are better.

LondonRingRules
12-09-2005, 11:36 PM
Hah, I hope you're joking. Marciano knocked out in the first round is ridiculous. He might take a beating at first but he wouldn't get knocked out.
That's what HOFers Larry Holmes and Michael Spinks said before Tyson turned them into his personal highlight reel. Guess what? Tyson is the only fighter to ever treat them so badly.

I love Rocky, but prime to prime he has the same chance they had...........none.

TuPrincipe
12-09-2005, 11:48 PM
That's what HOFers Larry Holmes and Michael Spinks said before Tyson turned them into his personal highlight reel. Guess what? Tyson is the only fighter to ever treat them so badly.

I love Rocky, but prime to prime he has the same chance they had...........none.

I don't buy that argument.

After taking almost a two-year lay-off Holmes came back to challenge Mike Tyson for the world title. Holmes hadn’t prepared properly and when Tyson was at the top of his game, the result was not a real fight at all.

Soliloquy
12-10-2005, 01:44 AM
It doesn't matter what era you are from.

Just because the training is perceived to be "better" does not mean jack squat when you get down to it. The fighters today are bigger, stronger, and sometimes faster. Does that mean they can throw straight, textbook punches? Keep in mind, I'm not referencing to Marciano but the overall cliche of today's fighters being better then yesterday's fighters. WRONG on all counts!!

Today's fighters are protected by business interests and the big money pay-off of a PPV extravaganza. But don’t try and convince me that they are "better" because they fight today, as opposed to yesterday.

Rocky's tenacious nature, awkward style and tremendous physical gifts would provide any opponent with a serious problem. Any fighter can be beat on any given day (boxing is a see-saw battle of wills and jigsaw esque style clashes), but Marciano's 49-0 (above all else) represents he came into every fight with the intentions to do everything in his very great power to come through the victor. He's too much man for Tyson, and this would be the ultimate factor.

Not only is your explanation wrong IMO, but it is terribly naive just to make the assumption that today's fighters are better.
I agree. These boxers of old fought their guts out for almost nothing but peanuts (in terms of money). These old-timers fought for success, for glory & for admiration from the fans. Fighters of today seem to have lost the passion because of the "easy money" they can make. Most of them would rather fight extremely boring to get a title shot and make some money instead of in older times fight an exciting style, maybe not get a title shot and maybe not make as much money but definitely giving the fans their worth.

Also, lowering the fights down to 12 rounds seperates the men from the boys in my opinion. Not taking anything away from Lennox Lewis, but the man had definite stamina problems and yet he can be considered one of the best heavyweights ever without all fassets of his game well-rounded.

In summary, today's boxers are fitter, bigger & stronger but they lack the glory-seeking, killer instinct of the older fighters such as Marciano or Azumah Nelson.

Skydog
12-10-2005, 07:33 PM
Jesus, you make it seem like Tyson can't get hit by anthing. I'll post my thoughts on the fight in just a sec.

Skydog
12-10-2005, 07:58 PM
Seeing a smaller opponent in front of him, Mike would be frothing at the mouth for a “wam-bam, thank you, sir” kind of knock-out. Once the leather started flying, however, Mike would realize most of his hooks were sailing over the Rock’s head. At 5’ 11”, Mike has very rarely faced an opponent that was shorter than himself, so this situation would require some adjustments. Given Rocky’s willingness to trade, it wouldn’t be long before Mike would be throwing that right to the body, right uppercut to the head combination, sending a spray of sweat from Rocky’s black locks as the on-looking crowd Oooos and Owwws with every bone-jarring shot.

Tough as Rocky is, there is no way he could take this kind of brutal assault for fifteen rounds. Somewhere around the third or fourth, Mike would put together a four-punch combo and drop the Rock with a left hook that would send him sprawling backwards three or four feet. Surprisingly, the Italian would get up, cover himself a little better and survive the remainder of the round as most of Mike’s finishers catch arms and air. Not used to having an opponent come to him, Mike finds his punches being smothered pretty regularly by the crouching in-fighting Marciano, who is constantly pounding Mike’s ribcage and forearms, while most of Mike’s return volley ricochet off the Rock’s shoulders.

Occasionally, Mike will catch Rocky with a good one and the crowd responds, holding their breath for the inevitable; but it doesn’t come. As the fight rages on, Mike’s staccato bursts are fewer and fewer in number as he settles for throwing one or two punches at a time while Marciano labors on in a blue collar-style, catching Mike on the chin more and more as the head-movement becomes all but absent. Finally, somewhere around the 13th, Marciano catches Mike in the ribs with a brutal left hook, sending the bigger man to one knee. Rising at the count of eight, Mike is gasping for air like a fish on a sandbar. Smelling blood, Rocky wades in amidst desperation shots and drops Mike again with a volley of body blows, uppercuts, and overhand rights. Knowing he’s done, the referee rescues Mike from further punishment with thirty seconds to go in the round.

THE REAL NINJA
12-11-2005, 02:03 AM
Tyson by tko Cuts or just plain ktfo around 7 ..and as far as tyson never had a hard fought fight with a power puncher watch tyson vs ruddock 1 n 2 a few times ...and the ass beating he took from buster n lewis ...you must have some heart to stad in a ring and get beat to hell like he did ...no his heart is not in the same class as holy n rock but he had some or he would have never been champ

Soliloquy
12-11-2005, 02:05 AM
The thing that no one here understands is Rock would take a beating for 14 rounds and still find a way to win. And someone who doesn't know how to lose is a scary man!

THE REAL NINJA
12-11-2005, 02:16 AM
The thing that no one here understands is Rock would take a beating for 14 rounds and still find a way to win. And someone who doesn't know how to lose is a scary man!
and also prone for an upset just cuz he never loss does not tell us he can not lose

TuPrincipe
12-11-2005, 03:02 AM
Seeing a smaller opponent in front of him, Mike would be frothing at the mouth for a “wam-bam, thank you, sir” kind of knock-out. Once the leather started flying, however, Mike would realize most of his hooks were sailing over the Rock’s head. At 5’ 11”, Mike has very rarely faced an opponent that was shorter than himself, so this situation would require some adjustments. Given Rocky’s willingness to trade, it wouldn’t be long before Mike would be throwing that right to the body, right uppercut to the head combination, sending a spray of sweat from Rocky’s black locks as the on-looking crowd Oooos and Owwws with every bone-jarring shot.

Tough as Rocky is, there is no way he could take this kind of brutal assault for fifteen rounds. Somewhere around the third or fourth, Mike would put together a four-punch combo and drop the Rock with a left hook that would send him sprawling backwards three or four feet. Surprisingly, the Italian would get up, cover himself a little better and survive the remainder of the round as most of Mike’s finishers catch arms and air. Not used to having an opponent come to him, Mike finds his punches being smothered pretty regularly by the crouching in-fighting Marciano, who is constantly pounding Mike’s ribcage and forearms, while most of Mike’s return volley ricochet off the Rock’s shoulders.

Occasionally, Mike will catch Rocky with a good one and the crowd responds, holding their breath for the inevitable; but it doesn’t come. As the fight rages on, Mike’s staccato bursts are fewer and fewer in number as he settles for throwing one or two punches at a time while Marciano labors on in a blue collar-style, catching Mike on the chin more and more as the head-movement becomes all but absent. Finally, somewhere around the 13th, Marciano catches Mike in the ribs with a brutal left hook, sending the bigger man to one knee. Rising at the count of eight, Mike is gasping for air like a fish on a sandbar. Smelling blood, Rocky wades in amidst desperation shots and drops Mike again with a volley of body blows, uppercuts, and overhand rights. Knowing he’s done, the referee rescues Mike from further punishment with thirty seconds to go in the round.

Looks like someone has a knack for predicting fights. That OR doing shoddy copying and pasting jobs.

I found the link you copied that from. Here it is:
http://www.********boxing.com/news.php?p=3845&more=1

Next time, come up with your own conclusions. Otherwise, it just makes you look like an arse.

THE REAL NINJA
12-11-2005, 03:41 AM
Looks like someone has a knack for predicting fights. That OR doing shoddy copying and pasting jobs.

I found the link you copied that from. Here it is:
http://www.********boxing.com/news.php?p=3845&more=1

Next time, come up with your own conclusions. Otherwise, it just makes you look like an arse.
LOL but what if he is the same guy :confused: LOL :D

leff
12-11-2005, 06:34 AM
Tyson by tko Cuts or just plain ktfo around 7 ..and as far as tyson never had a hard fought fight with a power puncher watch tyson vs ruddock 1 n 2 a few times ...and the ass beating he took from buster n lewis ...you must have some heart to stad in a ring and get beat to hell like he did ...no his heart is not in the same class as holy n rock but he had some or he would have never been champ

the different is that marciano allways won after taking a beating and tyson allways lost after a bad beating

dangerous dave
12-11-2005, 07:50 AM
Is this argument ever gonna finish ever really?

Tyson and Tua are good fighters in the early rounds but as proved against quality opposition they get tired and I personally doubt their hearts. Tyson would've been the best fighter of all time if he was with the right people is that what you wanna hear? No one knows so stop jibba jabbing. Tysons ****ed his own career up and he'd be the 1st one to say that. You cant say his peak was in 1987 and then talk about him as a legend. Talk about how he was a hugely feared opponent and commaded respect through boxing fans.

Small heavyweights are crap usually. Talk about these fighters against Lennox Lewis why don't you. Oh I know cos it would be a waste of time cos he'd beat anybody in boxing history at his peak! FACT!!!!!

Peace out!

"The Maryport Mauler", "Dangerous" Dave McGibbon Supermiddle record 18-0

LondonRingRules
12-11-2005, 11:24 AM
After taking almost a two-year lay-off Holmes came back to challenge Mike Tyson for the world title. Holmes hadn’t prepared properly and when Tyson was at the top of his game, the result was not a real fight at all.============

** Holmes was a gym rat. He never got out of boxing shape. The man made Holy and McCall look bad in the ring well into his 40s. NOBODY ever KOed him but Tyson and Larry fought in 2 more decades after that fight in 4 total decades of 75 bouts. Spinks was never down as a heavyweight until the Tyson fight and I don't think he was ever down as a LH either.

Facts is facts and those are two highly ranked HOFers on any list!

Dynamite76
12-12-2005, 07:54 PM
I think Tyson would stop Rocky, but by no means, would it be an easy fight.

Dempsey 1919
12-12-2005, 09:57 PM
tyson would trounce marciano in 20 to 25 seconds. marciano would be in and out in no time. tyson never lost to someone smaller than him, prime or not, so a prime tyson would by no means be challenged by someone weighing 180 or so lbs.

machotime
12-15-2005, 01:47 AM
tyson would trounce marciano in 20 to 25 seconds. marciano would be in and out in no time. tyson never lost to someone smaller than him, prime or not, so a prime tyson would by no means be challenged by someone weighing 180 or so lbs.
Marciano also has a much better chin than the smaller gies that Tyson has faced. I have heard the man can handle a punch. He fought several 200+ fighters and had little problems. Tyson would get overwhelmed by the type of fighter that marciano was. He was a pressure fighter and would have clocked tyson and KO'd him in the Mid rounds.

Baddest man on da planet
12-15-2005, 03:20 PM
tyson would ko marciano because tyson handspeed is to fast and his power is not as good as rocky but tyson does hit hard and marcian chin is not that good he got floored by archie moore. so basiclly tyson is better than marciano in every way except heart, power and stamina.
the fight would last 9-10 rounds

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 03:25 PM
tyson would ko marciano because tyson handspeed is to fast and his power is not as good as rocky but tyson does hit hard and marcian chin is not that good he got floored by archie moore. so basiclly tyson is better than marciano in every way except heart, power and stamina.
the fight would last 9-10 rounds

wow, i thought you, being a tyson fan and all would go as far as to say one round! it's okay, cause in this case that is exactly what would happen. tyson ko's marciano in one round. tyson hits harder, is faster, more skilled, bigger, longer reach, and anything else you can think of. if walcott floored rocky in the first round, then obviously someone like tyson would kill him!

leff
12-15-2005, 04:43 PM
wow, i thought you, being a tyson fan and all would go as far as to say one round! it's okay, cause in this case that is exactly what would happen. tyson ko's marciano in one round. tyson hits harder, is faster, more skilled, bigger, longer reach, and anything else you can think of. if walcott floored rocky in the first round, then obviously someone like tyson would kill him!

uuuuum marciano better power, chin, stamina and ten times a s much heart.

marciano after 5 rounds

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 04:51 PM
uuuuum marciano better power, chin, stamina and ten times a s much heart.

marciano after 5 rounds

look, tyson never lost to someone smaller than him. look it up, besides holyfield, all of tyson's losses came against big guys, and even holyfield weighed only like 5 or ten pounds less than tyson. no way marciano can hurt tyson at all. marciano would be overwhelmed.

leff
12-15-2005, 04:57 PM
look, tyson never lost to someone smaller than him. look it up, besides holyfield, all of tyson's losses came against big guys, and even holyfield weighed only like 5 or ten pounds less than tyson. no way marciano can hurt tyson at all. marciano would be overwhelmed.

okay so tyson never lost to any one smaller than himself, but guess what rock never lost at all.

tyson has lost to good,mediocre and ****ty oposition.

mike allways lost when his opponent wasnt afraid off him.

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 05:04 PM
okay so tyson never lost to any one smaller than himself, but guess what rock never lost at all.

tyson has lost to good,mediocre and ****ty oposition.

mike allways lost when his opponent wasnt afraid off him.

yeah, but who did he fight? small white guys in general, and when he finally fought black guys they either knocked him down or gave him the fight of his life or both. none of the guys rocky fought were as good as tyson. in fact, none of these guys were as good as tyson's opposition! tyson fought hws. marciano fought middlweights, light hw's, and cruiserweights, and no-talent hw's. marciano wouldn't get out of the first round with tyson, cause he would be knocked down with the first punch tyson threw, and after 4 or 5 knockdowns, he would either stay down, or the ref would stop it. this would all happen in round one. tyson wouldn't get hit at all, cause marciano wouldn't even have time to throw a punch. this fight lasts about 50sec. or a minute and that's it.

leff
12-15-2005, 05:09 PM
yeah, but who did he fight? small white guys in general, and when he finally fought black guys they either knocked him down or gave him the fight of his life or both. none of the guys rocky fought were as good as tyson. in fact, none of these guys were as good as tyson's opposition! tyson fought hws. marciano fought middlweights, light hw's, and cruiserweights, and no-talent hw's. marciano wouldn't get out of the first round with tyson, cause he would be knocked down with the first punch tyson threw, and after 4 or 5 knockdowns, he would either stay down, or the ref would stop it. this would all happen in round one. tyson wouldn't get hit at all, cause marciano wouldn't even have time to throw a punch. this fight lasts about 50sec. or a minute and that's it.

as suspected you dont know what your talking about.

walcot and charles started at middle yes but they wher both 16 at the time, at 16 many is fully grown in height but you muscle wont really grow before after 20.

walcot moved upp after the first year and charles also moved early upp.

moore also moved upp early and had enourmous problems with pushing the weight down to middle, the traditional nutrition fore boxers was meat and veggis, to keep his weight down moore hed to spit the meat out and he stil couldent keep down as he became more off a man than boy.

leff
12-15-2005, 05:11 PM
you also said he fought samll guys

rocky fought


6'4 254lb jerry jackson - KO 1

6'3 230lb big bill wilson - TKO 1

6'3 220lb Johnny shkor- KO 6

6'5 215lb patrick connelly - KO 1

6'2 214lb Joe Louis - KO 8


your problem is that you think he fought the smaller guys because wanted easy fights,DAMN wron he fought the best and the big guys simply wasnt the best in the division.

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 05:17 PM
you also said he fought samll guys

rocky fought


6'4 254lb jerry jackson - KO 1

6'3 230lb big bill wilson - TKO 1

6'3 220lb Johnny shkor- KO 6

6'5 215lb patrick connelly - KO 1

6'2 214lb Joe Louis - KO 8


your problem is that you think he fought the smaller guys because wanted easy fights,DAMN wron he fought the best and the big guys simply wasnt the best in the division.

every single person marciano fought were as follows:

1. if they were big, they were slow, and unskilled.

2. if they were fast, and skilled, then they were small.

FACT: tyson never fought someone highly skilled and big and strong at the same time. this fits tyson' description.

so marciano wouldn't know what to do with tyson.

leff
12-15-2005, 05:20 PM
every single person marciano fought were as follows:

1. if they were big, they were slow, and unskilled.

2. if they were fast, and skilled, then they were small.

FACT: tyson never fought someone highly skilled and big and strong at the same time. this fits tyson' description.

so marciano wouldn't know what to do with tyson.


he would do like he used to throw that susieq in his face until tyson was out.


joe louis must be a good example off what you describe as big, slow and unskilled.


and please leave the race card out off this discussion like you trie dto in a previous post

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 05:23 PM
he would do like he used to throw that susieq in his face until tyson was out.


joe louis must be a good example off what you describe as big, slow and unskilled.


and please leave the race card out off this discussion like you trie dto in a previous post

but with tyson's bob and weave, marciano's slow arms wouldn't hit tyson. also louis wasn't that big. he was bigger than marciano, but still not that big. he was skilled, but way past his prime.

leff
12-15-2005, 05:27 PM
but with tyson's bob and weave, marciano's slow arms wouldn't hit tyson. also louis wasn't that big. he was bigger than marciano, but still not that big. he was skilled, but way past his prime.

dude, marciano allways bobbed and weaved a lot, its kinda hard to tell how they would hit each other since both was used to roll under punches and punch uppwards.

and marciano didnt need to hit tyson head, marciano hit what was in front off him, shoulders,chest,arms,head and body and all would hurt.

and for the record wearing an opponent down by hitting his armes aint dirty since its legal, ive learnt it from my traoiner and ive used to good effect.

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 05:36 PM
dude, marciano allways bobbed and weaved a lot, its kinda hard to tell how they would hit each other since both was used to roll under punches and punch uppwards.

and marciano didnt need to hit tyson head, marciano hit what was in front off him, shoulders,chest,arms,head and body and all would hurt.

and for the record wearing an opponent down by hitting his armes aint dirty since its legal, ive learnt it from my traoiner and ive used to good effect.

whatever, man.

leff
12-15-2005, 05:38 PM
whatever, man.


i guess thats your standard answer every time you run out off arguments.

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 05:40 PM
i guess thats your standard answer every time you run out off arguments.

shut up, fool! tyson was fast. marciano was slow. tyson's head movement was far superior to marciano's. tyson lays that slow immigrant out on a strecher in one!

leff
12-15-2005, 05:47 PM
shut up, fool! tyson was fast. marciano was slow. tyson's head movement was far superior to marciano's. tyson lays that slow immigrant out on a strecher in one!

the greats arguments continue and now with insults
how mature LOL

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 06:01 PM
the greats arguments continue and now with insults
how mature LOL

you can't get it through your head. tyson was superior to marciano in every way. it's like clart kent fighting superman lol! marciano has no chance! tyson does everything that marciano does, only better and more fluid. any fool can see that.

Da Iceman
12-15-2005, 06:07 PM
you can't get it through your head. tyson was superior to marciano in every way. it's like clart kent fighting superman lol! marciano has no chance! tyson does everything that marciano does, only better and more fluid. any fool can see that.
i beg to differ, tyson didnt have rocky's heart, stamina, or power. all rocky would have to do is hit him flush once (ex.walcott), and tyson would either be out cold or the tide would turn in marciano's favor, leading to a ko

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 06:12 PM
i beg to differ, tyson didnt have rocky's heart, stamina, or power. all rocky would have to do is hit him flush once (ex.walcott), and tyson would either be out cold or the tide would turn in marciano's favor, leading to a ko

in this case, marciano's heart doesn't matter. tyson would blast marciano in one round, which doesn't really give marciano a chance to show his "heart".

Skydog
12-15-2005, 06:13 PM
You could also say the opposite.

In this case, Tyson's lack of heart would matter. Rocky would blast him with a punch in the first round, and Tyson wouldn't have the heart after that to try and win.

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 06:16 PM
You could also say the opposite.

In this case, Tyson's lack of heart would matter. Rocky would blast him with a punch in the first round, and Tyson wouldn't have the heart after that to try and win.

tyson never gave up in the first round. tyson always gave up in the later rounds. if marciano hit tyson hard, then tyson would take it and keep coming, for about the first 5 rounds. tyson would never be defeated mentally when the fight just started. it takes a series of rounds to break tyson's spirits.

Skydog
12-15-2005, 06:36 PM
You make it sound like Marciano never threw one punch in the first round.

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 06:41 PM
You make it sound like Marciano never threw one punch in the first round.

that's not what i'm trying to say. first of all there is no way tyson could be stunned by marciano at all, especially in the first round when he is fresh. second tyson never got knocked out, or even knocked down with one punch, marciano was knocked down with one punch several times in his career. it took a series of punches, rounds, and punishment for tyson to go down, and against people weighing 230 or more not from 185lb. fighters. so tyson would take anything rocky has in the first, then crush marciano cause he has nothing on iron mike.

Baddest man on da planet
12-15-2005, 06:49 PM
yea that is for sure mike would be to fast and powerfull for rocky. marciano got kd by people with half the power tyson has. tyson would knock him out in round 2-3 marcianos heart would be his downfall in this fight.

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 06:51 PM
yea that is for sure mike would be to fast and powerfull for rocky. marciano got kd by people with half the power tyson has. tyson would knock him out in round 2-3 marcianos heart would be his downfall in this fight.

i would say 1.

Skydog
12-15-2005, 09:15 PM
that's not what i'm trying to say. first of all there is no way tyson could be stunned by marciano at all, especially in the first round when he is fresh. second tyson never got knocked out, or even knocked down with one punch, marciano was knocked down with one punch several times in his career. it took a series of punches, rounds, and punishment for tyson to go down, and against people weighing 230 or more not from 185lb. fighters. so tyson would take anything rocky has in the first, then crush marciano cause he has nothing on iron mike.

Ha! Ever seen Tyson vs. Bruno??? I'll just ask this question, and we can argue if you have seen it.

Brassangel
12-16-2005, 12:18 PM
Marciano wouldn't be suited to fight a guy like Tyson. Rocky was in an era full of good ol' fashioned brawlers who waded across the ring and slugged it out. Tyson could not only take a punch, but he was fast and difficult to hit when he was focused. Tyson also had close to 30 lbs. on Rocky. Those dynamite fists would have been flying all over Marciano, because Rocky would have come straight at Tyson. My prediction: Tyson in 2.

Dempsey 1919
12-16-2005, 02:52 PM
Ha! Ever seen Tyson vs. Bruno??? I'll just ask this question, and we can argue if you have seen it.

yeah, i've seen it about four times.

Brassangel
12-16-2005, 03:37 PM
I had it saved on the internet and I watched it again right after it was typed. Plus, anybody who has watched ESPN Classic when they were doing their "The Greatest and Iron Mike" series has probably seen it a dozen times.

Dempsey 1919
03-29-2006, 10:58 PM
Ha! Ever seen Tyson vs. Bruno??? I'll just ask this question, and we can argue if you have seen it.

bruno weighs 230lbs. so your argument is invalid there.

SuzieQ49
03-30-2006, 04:26 PM
tyson TKO 3 marciano

SuzieQ49
03-30-2006, 04:29 PM
marciano was not slow. in fact at times hes fast.

- marcianos KO of harry kid mathews was lightning fast

RockyMarcianofan00
03-30-2006, 04:46 PM
Marciano could beat Tyson
first they'd need to fight in Marciano's time where you need to be actually getting hurt to have the fight stopped

and second he'd need to train alittle different, little more speed

but he'd do to tyson what he did to Carmine Vingo in a sense, Tyson would be KO'd in 10 with severe blood clots in his arms

because look at how tyson holds his arms, Marciano will turn those into mush and tyson will have no defense
also marciano has to much stamina for Tyson so he could just drag it out

Tyson's most likely chance would be TKO before 5

RockyMarcianofan00
03-30-2006, 04:54 PM
yea that is for sure mike would be to fast and powerfull for rocky. marciano got kd by people with half the power tyson has. tyson would knock him out in round 2-3 marcianos heart would be his downfall in this fight.
Marciano got knocked down by 2 ppl and both of them were arguabley off balance.
first jersey joe walcott who was in his prime and at 197- out weighed marciano by 10 lbs, this was the imfamous punch that he used to knock down Joe Louis,Ezzard Charles etc, got up on the count of 2

second-Archie Moore who was one of the best LHW's ever and was a great hw, he got marciano off balance which is proven because he got up on one or two

Tyson wasn't too fast for Marciano because i could easily compare his speed to some of Marciano's opponents

so don't just right him off because Tyson was good, and butterfly no way in hell Marciano would be ko'd in 1 i'd be surprised if Tyson even knocked him down in the first five rounds

RockyMarcianofan00
03-30-2006, 04:57 PM
shut up, fool! tyson was fast. marciano was slow. tyson's head movement was far superior to marciano's. tyson lays that slow immigrant out on a strecher in one!]

yes butterfly we're the racist ones
you've gotten very biased in the last few months

for you when it comes to Ali or any of Ali's opponents Nobody can beat them but if its anybody else

SuzieQ49
03-30-2006, 05:07 PM
but he'd do to tyson what he did to Carmine Vingo in a sense, Tyson would be KO'd in 10 with severe blood clots in his arms


ur confusing carmine vingo with roland lastarza

RockyMarcianofan00
03-30-2006, 05:15 PM
yea i suppose i am now that i think about it

but Lastarza's the one that needed surgery..
he broke and hurt many ppl's arms

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 06:23 PM
tyson TKO 3 marciano

i'm shocked! :eek:

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 06:26 PM
marciano was not slow. in fact at times hes fast.

- marcianos KO of harry kid mathews was lightning fast

maybe compared to the way he usually fights, but i'm sure it wasn't actually lightning fast. :rolleyes:

RockyMarcianofan00
03-30-2006, 08:10 PM
maybe compared to the way he usually fights, but i'm sure it wasn't actually lightning fast. :rolleyes:

he's not talking handspeed wise he's talking like round wise

he ko'd him in 2

but thats not his fasteset-
jersey joe walcott the second time he ko'd him in 1
Gino Buonvino was in 2
actually he had alot fights in the beginning that ended with in 3
http://rockymarciano.net/about/stats.htm

SuzieQ49
03-30-2006, 09:13 PM
marciano is not slow. the fact that he had a 67" reach made his punches travel faster.

if marciano was so slow, how was he able to keep up with very fast guys like walcott, charles, moore?

Verstyle
03-30-2006, 09:18 PM
simply put tyson will beat rocky :)

Kid Achilles
03-30-2006, 09:46 PM
Tyson most likely stops Marciano early but it wouldn't be easy and he could sure as hell get caught and hurt badly himself. Anyone who thinks Tyson could take a Marciano right hand without reeling from it's power is a fool.

But yes, I agree that Tyson probably takes him based on superior quickness, upperbody and head movement, and size. Marciano never fought anyone like Tyson.

Then again, Tyson never fought anyone with more than a fraction of Marciano's balls, chin, and heart until he met an aged Holyfield, and we all know how that one went.

Still I have to go with Tyson who was a mercilously fast starter, had great head movement, and was significantly heavier than the Rock.

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 10:40 PM
marciano is not slow. the fact that he had a 67" reach made his punches travel faster.

if marciano was so slow, how was he able to keep up with very fast guys like walcott, charles, moore?

now i know your biased towards marciano. marciano was the slowest fighter i've ever seen on film. he relied basically on brute strength his entire career.

he didn't really keep up with them. walcott, charles, and moore all have some of the worst chins in hw history, so it's no suprise that marciano beat them. :rolleyes:

SuzieQ49
03-30-2006, 10:42 PM
butterfly, u dont know **** about boxing. im done with you.

Da Iceman
03-30-2006, 10:43 PM
now i know your biased towards marciano. marciano was the slowest fighter i've ever seen on film. he relied basically on brute strength his entire career.

he didn't really keep up with them. walcott, charles, and moore all have some of the worst chins in hw history, so it's no suprise that marciano beat them. :rolleyes:
moore and charles had solid chins. in marciano's first fight with charles did you see the beating he took the last round. i could name 10 guys who wouldve got ko'd that round.

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 10:54 PM
moore and charles had solid chins. in marciano's first fight with charles did you see the beating he took the last round. i could name 10 guys who wouldve got ko'd that round.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! i'm done! if moore and charles had solid chins, then someone like chuvalo must be god, right? get the heck out of here. moore makes floyd patterson look like david tua with his chin, the guy was ko'd by middleweights for crying out loud. and charles chin is not much better, look at how many times he's been knocked out by no name fighters.

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 10:55 PM
butterfly, u dont know **** about boxing. im done with you.

well, there's not much i can say to a guy that claims that marciano was fast. :eek:

Da Iceman
03-30-2006, 11:06 PM
hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! i'm done! if moore and charles had solid chins, then someone like chuvalo must be god, right? get the heck out of here. moore makes floyd patterson look like david tua with his chin, the guy was ko'd by middleweights for crying out loud. and charles chin is not much better, look at how many times he's been knocked out by no name fighters.
just because your a low weight class doesnt mean you cant hit.

RockyMarcianofan00
03-30-2006, 11:10 PM
now i know your biased towards marciano. marciano was the slowest fighter i've ever seen on film. he relied basically on brute strength his entire career.

he didn't really keep up with them. walcott, charles, and moore all have some of the worst chins in hw history, so it's no suprise that marciano beat them. :rolleyes:
now your just being unrealistic i've seen much slower fighters

and he is correct, Marciano did have decent speed, it was more noticable when he didn't have gloves on but see its not he was a slow fighter as much as how he fought

let me put it into terms you can understand- Ali was faster when he was younger cause he was always on his toes, but later he planted his feet and threw hard slower punches

same principle, when Marciano threw a jab it was usually a decent speed but his hook was slower but deadly

the fact is Marciano would swarm, and he had to be pretty good because if he wasn't he would have gotten beaten by counter-punchers

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 11:11 PM
just because your a low weight class doesnt mean you cant hit.

for your weight class yes. but when you move up your power will decrease, because you will be fighting bigger and stronger people with better chins, so it will be harder for you to hurt them with your punch then before.

Da Iceman
03-30-2006, 11:12 PM
how do you post and it says your not online?

Da Iceman
03-30-2006, 11:13 PM
that ***** in your sig looks like hurricane "bum" carter.

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 11:13 PM
now your just being unrealistic i've seen much slower fighters

and he is correct, Marciano did have decent speed, it was more noticable when he didn't have gloves on but see its not he was a slow fighter as much as how he fought

let me put it into terms you can understand- Ali was faster when he was younger cause he was always on his toes, but later he planted his feet and threw hard slower punches

same principle, when Marciano threw a jab it was usually a decent speed but his hook was slower but deadly

the fact is Marciano would swarm, and he had to be pretty good because if he wasn't he would have gotten beaten by counter-punchers

ali's powerpunches were still much, much faster than rocky's jabs, that's for sure.

and again, the fact that he never lost, based on his skill level just goes to show the level of competition he fought, nothing else.

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 11:15 PM
how do you post and it says your not online?

it says i'm online on my computer.

Da Iceman
03-30-2006, 11:16 PM
you can have no skill and loads of heart power stamina and chin and win.

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 11:16 PM
that ***** in your sig looks like hurricane "bum" carter.

that's doug jones, and carter wasn't a bum. he was a great fighter.

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 11:17 PM
you can have no skill and loads of heart power stamina and chin and win.

not against skilled fighters who train specifically to take your head off.

Da Iceman
03-30-2006, 11:20 PM
27 wins 12 loses 1 draw. i know your gonna say braddock and all of them had half as many wins and losses but carter didnt even fight the level of competition braddock did. only good people he beat were griffith and ellis. b rated fighters.

(watch butterfly come back with something about marciano fighting old slow past their prime heavyweights with no chins :))

Da Iceman
03-30-2006, 11:21 PM
you mean a great man bad fighter.

RockyMarcianofan00
03-30-2006, 11:28 PM
ali's powerpunches were still much, much faster than rocky's jabs, that's for sure.

and again, the fact that he never lost, based on his skill level just goes to show the level of competition he fought, nothing else.
i never said that Marciano was faster than ali- what do i look like a nut hugger :eek:

as for your other comments i'm not gunna say you have no idea what your talking about- you just have an obscured view

there's a handful of people that could have stood up to Marciano and you can argue it or not, but you can't take 49-0 away from him no matter what way you look at it, because eras that were worse then the 50's are from like the 1800's through like the 1940's and the current era thats about 30 years that were better tehn the 50's

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 11:29 PM
27 wins 12 loses 1 draw. i know your gonna say braddock and all of them had half as many wins and losses but carter didnt even fight the level of competition braddock did. only good people he beat were griffith and ellis. b rated fighters.

(watch butterfly come back with something about marciano fighting old slow past their prime heavyweights with no chins :))

he had a rough life. i'm sure if the cops weren't houding him and **** all the time, then he would have done better in the ring.

Da Iceman
03-30-2006, 11:30 PM
sure he would have, read hurricane.

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 11:33 PM
sure he would have, read hurricane.

don't need to, i saw the movie.

SuzieQ49
03-30-2006, 11:44 PM
the movie HURRICANE is 100% INACCURATE

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 11:46 PM
the movie HURRICANE is 100% INACCURATE

well, that's your opinion.

SuzieQ49
03-30-2006, 11:52 PM
well, that's your opinion.



no its A FACT!

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 11:54 PM
no its A FACT!

prove it. :boxing:

Yogi
03-30-2006, 11:58 PM
the movie HURRICANE is 100% INACCURATE

So I've heard, which is one of the reasons I've never bothered to watch it.

Too many inaccurracies I've heard, pertaining to things like him being the #1 contender when picked up (wrong!), him being a war hero (wrong!), him being robbed against Giardello (wrong!), etc., etc.

Dempsey 1919
03-30-2006, 11:59 PM
So I've heard, which is one of the reasons I've never bothered to watch it.

Too many inaccurracies I've heard, pertaining to things like him being the #1 contender when picked up (wrong!), him being a war hero (wrong!), him being robbed against Giardello (wrong!), etc., etc.

alright, fine. you got me there. but carter was still a very good fighter.

Yogi
03-31-2006, 12:02 AM
alright, fine. you got me there. but carter was still a very good fighter.

Yeah, he was a good fighter/contender in his time from what I've seen of him, and has a pretty good resume for a fighter of only 40 fights.

smasher
03-31-2006, 12:05 AM
Yeah, he was a good fighter/contender in his time from what I've seen of him, and has a pretty good resume for a fighter of only 40 fights.
He wouldn't give me his autograph. He sucks.

Dempsey 1919
03-31-2006, 12:06 AM
He wouldn't give me his autograph. He sucks.

aww, that's too bad. :)

Yogi
03-31-2006, 12:07 AM
He wouldn't give me his autograph. He sucks.

Is Carter still hanging out down in your part of the country?

Kid Achilles
03-31-2006, 12:08 AM
Carter was very good and Griffith was the best of the best, not a B level fighter.

You're still wrong about everything else though Butterfly.

smasher
03-31-2006, 12:10 AM
aww, that's too bad. :)
I stood beside Ali as he signed about 1000 autographs and turned no one away. I think I was the only guy who even knew who Carter was and he turned me down when I asked for his autograph. Prick.

Yogi
03-31-2006, 12:10 AM
Griffith was the best of the best, not a B level fighter.

Did Butterfly actually call Emile Griffith a B level fighter?

smasher
03-31-2006, 12:13 AM
Is Carter still hanging out down in your part of the country?
Last I heard he was still living on a farm north of Toronto with his wife. He was mistakedly arrested by Toronto Police a few years ago after he matched the description of a crime suspect. That was good for some 'racism' and 'racial profiling' stories in the local media...

Yogi
03-31-2006, 12:19 AM
Last I heard he was still living on a farm north of Toronto with his wife. He was mistakedly arrested by Toronto Police a few years ago after he matched the description of a crime suspect. That was good for some 'racism' and 'racial profiling' stories in the local media...

Yeah, I bet.

The last thing I saw of him was that appearance he did on FNF a year or two ago, and he just struck me the wrong way with all that smiling, preacher-esque bull**** that he tried pulling off on the show...A little overboard with that stuff.

Verstyle
03-31-2006, 12:20 AM
all i gotta say is :hijacked: true oh so true :D

Dempsey 1919
03-31-2006, 12:23 AM
Did Butterfly actually call Emile Griffith a B level fighter?

shut up yogi, no i didn't! :mad:

smasher
03-31-2006, 12:27 AM
Yeah, I bet.

The last thing I saw of him was that appearance he did on FNF a year or two ago, and he just struck me the wrong way with all that smiling, preacher-esque bull**** that he tried pulling off on the show...A little overboard with that stuff.
Thank you. I saw that and those were my feelings exactly. He was no smiling "we all gotta love one and another" preacher when I met him. Pretty ****in' cold and dry.

Dempsey 1919
03-31-2006, 12:28 AM
all i gotta say is :hijacked: true oh so true :D

yeah, this thread has gotten out of hand. anyway, back to topic.

mike tyson ko 1 rocky marciano. :boxing:

RockyMarcianofan00
03-31-2006, 12:42 AM
yeah, this thread has gotten out of hand. anyway, back to topic.

mike tyson ko 1 rocky marciano. :boxing:
it would never happen in one

Tyson wouldn't even KO Marciano- pratically no chance of that

it would probably be TKO if Tyson won at all

Dempsey 1919
03-31-2006, 12:43 AM
it would never happen in one

Tyson wouldn't even KO Marciano- pratically no chance of that

it would probably be TKO if Tyson won at all

alright. a tko or ko in one.

SuzieQ49
03-31-2006, 01:19 AM
marciano KO 1 butterfly

Dempsey 1919
03-31-2006, 01:25 AM
marciano KO 1 butterfly

ali KO 1 suzieq49 :D

Yaman
03-31-2006, 05:30 AM
Might aswell give my two cents.

What i have a hard time with is Marciano's slow start and Tyson's early onslaught. He was one of the most dangerous fighters ever in the beginning of a fight. Now Marciano has heart and would always get back up but the refs in Tyson's days were very diffirent and stopped a bout very soon. The only way Marciano would win is making it trough the first half of the fights, and if he's still fresh by then, he would win eventually.
So

Tyson TKO2
or
Marciano TKO10

I don't think it would go the distance since you have 2 swarmers going at it.

Southpaw Stinger
03-31-2006, 05:58 AM
What i have a hard time with is Marciano's slow start and Tyson's early onslaught. He was one of the most dangerous fighters ever in the beginning of a fight. Now Marciano has heart and would always get back up but the refs in Tyson's days were very diffirent and stopped a bout very soon. The only way Marciano would win is making it trough the first half of the fights, and if he's still fresh by then, he would win eventually.
So

Tyson TKO2
or
Marciano TKO10

I don't think it would go the distance since you have 2 swarmers going at it.

Thats how I see it.

Oasis_Lad
03-31-2006, 06:02 AM
i see marciano being dropped but still gettting up and fighting on
as the rounds progress tyson tires but marciano because of his amazing stamina is still throwing power punches like its the first round and this leaves tyson bemused marciano by ko in the 9th

JDizzle79
03-31-2006, 06:04 AM
yeah, i was thinking an ko by marciano between rounds 7-9 after being dropped one or two times

Dempsey 1919
03-31-2006, 12:57 PM
i see marciano being dropped but still gettting up and fighting on
as the rounds progress tyson tires but marciano because of his amazing stamina is still throwing power punches like its the first round and this leaves tyson bemused marciano by ko in the 9th

please! marciano almost didn't get out of one round with joe friggin' walcott, so why would he be able to get out of one round with tyson? again, tyson in one.

Southpaw Stinger
03-31-2006, 01:47 PM
please! marciano almost didn't get out of one round with joe friggin' walcott

Being knocked down is not the same as being KO'd. Thats like saying Ali almost didn't get out of a round against wepner.

Kid Achilles
03-31-2006, 02:50 PM
Ali was hurt more against Henry Cooper than Marciano was in his entire career, and Cooper was no better a puncher than Walcott IMO.

Dempsey 1919
03-31-2006, 03:30 PM
Being knocked down is not the same as being KO'd. Thats like saying Ali almost didn't get out of a round against wepner.

cause wepner didn't floor him. it was a slip. wepner stepped on ali's foot and tapped him in the side, so it looks like he hit him hard, but ali was pulling back from a punch, so he would have busted his ass anyway.

Dempsey 1919
03-31-2006, 03:31 PM
Ali was hurt more against Henry Cooper than Marciano was in his entire career, and Cooper was no better a puncher than Walcott IMO.

yeah, but marciano was prime against walcott, and clay wasn't against cooper.

Da Iceman
03-31-2006, 04:00 PM
cause wepner didn't floor him. it was a slip. wepner stepped on ali's foot and tapped him in the side, so it looks like he hit him hard, but ali was pulling back from a punch, so he would have busted his ass anyway.
no he didnt ive seen the film close up bert sugar and everybody at espn classic ringside said he didnt step on his foot, ali was ashamed a bum knocked him down. so he made up a lie in the locker room.

Yaman
03-31-2006, 04:07 PM
yeah, but marciano was prime against walcott, and clay wasn't against cooper.


Face it, your thoughts on Marciano's knockdowns aren't valid. You can say that about any fighter for that matter.

Dempsey 1919
03-31-2006, 04:28 PM
Face it, your thoughts on Marciano's knockdowns aren't valid. You can say that about any fighter for that matter.

but still at least ali has a better chin than marciano. :rolleyes:

Da Iceman
03-31-2006, 04:35 PM
even...............

RockyMarcianofan00
03-31-2006, 04:38 PM
cause wepner didn't floor him. it was a slip. wepner stepped on ali's foot and tapped him in the side, so it looks like he hit him hard, but ali was pulling back from a punch, so he would have busted his ass anyway.

actually in review of that film, when i saw it on espn classic bert sugar had commented that if you look Wepner got Ali with a solid body shot laying him out on the canvas. it wasn't a slip and Wepner wasn't stepping on his foot. It was legitmate knockdown and Ali didn't get up until 5 or 6. he was also slow for the rest of that round.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/IrishInsomniac00/other%20boxing%20pictures/chuck_wepner3.jpg



With Marciano he was up within two seconds, can you honestly say that being knocked down two seconds is a legitamate knockdown- by that i mean can you honestly say he got floored. seems like a lucky shot almost to me. Also its funny that you say he almost didn't make it out of round one because after he got knocked down he kept fighting as if nothing had happened, had Marciano not gotten anything in his eyes for three rounds then not only would Marciano have knocked Walcott out but he would have been ahead on points

here's marciano's knockdowns (sry if there small)

Walcott's knockdown----hm looks like he slipped
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/IrishInsomniac00/Rocky%20Marciano/thhit2.jpg


Moore's knockdown
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/IrishInsomniac00/Rocky%20Marciano/thRockyMarcianovsArchieMooreIRockyk.jpg

RockyMarcianofan00
03-31-2006, 04:40 PM
i see marciano being dropped but still gettting up and fighting on
as the rounds progress tyson tires but marciano because of his amazing stamina is still throwing power punches like its the first round and this leaves tyson bemused marciano by ko in the 9th
i can agree with this
like i've said the only chance tyson has against Marciano is TKO'ing Rocky in the first 4. Marciano has too much heart to be knocked out. after 4 Marciano will put more and more pressure on and ko tyson in 10

so
Maybe- Tyson TKO before 5

probably-Marciano KO after 7

Dempsey 1919
03-31-2006, 04:42 PM
actually in review of that film, when i saw it on espn classic bert sugar had commented that if you look Wepner got Ali with a solid body shot laying him out on the canvas. it wasn't a slip and Wepner wasn't stepping on his foot. It was legitmate knockdown and Ali didn't get up until 5 or 6. he was also slow for the rest of that round.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/IrishInsomniac00/other%20boxing%20pictures/chuck_wepner3.jpg



With Marciano he was up within two seconds, can you honestly say that being knocked down two seconds is a legitamate knockdown- by that i mean can you honestly say he got floored. seems like a lucky shot almost to me. Also its funny that you say he almost didn't make it out of round one because after he got knocked down he kept fighting as if nothing had happened, had Marciano not gotten anything in his eyes for three rounds then not only would Marciano have knocked Walcott out but he would have been ahead on points

here's marciano's knockdowns (sry if there small)

Walcott's knockdown----hm looks like he slipped
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/IrishInsomniac00/Rocky%20Marciano/thhit2.jpg


Moore's knockdown
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/IrishInsomniac00/Rocky%20Marciano/thRockyMarcianovsArchieMooreIRockyk.jpg

wow, stop lying kid. i have the wepner fight. i've seen it a hundred times. ali got up in like three seconds and he was mad as hell, he looked like the devil or something, ahahahaha!! ali wanted to kill him! then he started trading punches with wepner and getting him on the ropes and was pummeling him again. :D

Da Iceman
03-31-2006, 04:47 PM
you know why. he was embarrased wepner was a bum.

Da Iceman
03-31-2006, 04:47 PM
it was a legit knockdown.

Dempsey 1919
03-31-2006, 04:48 PM
you know why. he was embarrased wepner was a bum.

he didn't get dropped. he slipped. the shot wepner hit him with loked like pitty-pat.

Da Iceman
03-31-2006, 04:49 PM
it was a hard shot. and his foot was between ali's legs.

RockyMarcianofan00
03-31-2006, 04:54 PM
That knockdown was legitamately good, and how can you tell me it wasn't. And you know Ali was really embarassed because he said he was going to ko Wepner before like the 5th round and would only hit his body and Wepner knocked Ali down and took him into the 15th

Kid Achilles
03-31-2006, 06:32 PM
First you say Wepner stepped on his foot, now you're changing it to that he slipped. Face the facts: Ali was down against Wepner longer than Marciano was at any one time in his career.

Dempsey 1919
03-31-2006, 06:34 PM
That knockdown was legitamately good, and how can you tell me it wasn't. And you know Ali was really embarassed because he said he was going to ko Wepner before like the 5th round and would only hit his body and Wepner knocked Ali down and took him into the 15th

i'm sorry, but i've watched that shot a thousand times, and that shot did not look hard at all.

RockyMarcianofan00
03-31-2006, 07:30 PM
First you say Wepner stepped on his foot, now you're changing it to that he slipped. Face the facts: Ali was down against Wepner longer than Marciano was at any one time in his career.
thats the truth
video if you feel like dl'ing it----i didn't (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W0DF4KTS)----Ali v Wepner

DaWayne
04-01-2006, 04:41 AM
A prime Tyson ain't a old Jersey Joe.Tyson by real early knockout.

leff
04-01-2006, 05:12 AM
i'm sorry, but i've watched that shot a thousand times, and that shot did not look hard at all.


that makes it worse

RockyMarcianofan00
04-01-2006, 10:38 AM
that makes it worse
owaned lol

Prime Tyson wouldn't be able to go more then 4 rounds at the pace Marciano would be setting. The only chance Tyson has would be to try and use straight punches to cut Marciano's face up and wear him down for later rounds or to get the TKO. Most likely what will happen is Marciano would make tyson come at him with his best stuff and tire him out and Marciano will kill him. Toe to Toe Marciano's stronger IMO, but Tyson's speed combined with his own KO power may overwhelm Marciano so....

Marciano KO 8-10

:boxing:

RockyMarcianofan00
04-01-2006, 10:39 AM
A prime Tyson ain't a old Jersey Joe.Tyson by real early knockout.
when they fought the first time he was a Prime Jersey Joe Walcott

Dempsey 1919
04-01-2006, 02:02 PM
owaned lol

Prime Tyson wouldn't be able to go more then 4 rounds at the pace Marciano would be setting. The only chance Tyson has would be to try and use straight punches to cut Marciano's face up and wear him down for later rounds or to get the TKO. Most likely what will happen is Marciano would make tyson come at him with his best stuff and tire him out and Marciano will kill him. Toe to Toe Marciano's stronger IMO, but Tyson's speed combined with his own KO power may overwhelm Marciano so....

Marciano KO 8-10

:boxing:

marciano wouldn't last the first round. the hardest puncher marciano ever faced was a washed up joe louis. tyson would be knocking marciano down continuously and then after about the sixth knockdown, marciano will be out cold like larry holmes. :D

tyson in 1.

RockyMarcianofan00
04-01-2006, 02:47 PM
marciano wouldn't last the first round. the hardest puncher marciano ever faced was a washed up joe louis. tyson would be knocking marciano down continuously and then after about the sixth knockdown, marciano will be out cold like larry holmes. :D

tyson in 1.
now your just being biased
your the only one here that says tyson would knock out Marciano in 1

most ppl said tyson would TKO him in 3 so i don't know if your just hugging tyson's nuts or you really hate Marciano but either stop with the bull**** posts or **** off its that simple

Southpaw Stinger
04-01-2006, 03:16 PM
It's quite simple, if the fight goes beyond 6 rounds then Marciano by an easy KO. Before 6 rounds Tyson will dominate and likely score a TKO.

Dempsey 1919
04-01-2006, 03:18 PM
It's quite simple, if the fight goes beyond 6 rounds then Marciano by an easy KO. Before 6 rounds Tyson will dominate and likely score a TKO.

poin is, it won't go beyond one, let alone 6. :rolleyes: marciano would be overwhelmed and ko'd faster than michael spinks.

tyson in one.

Southpaw Stinger
04-01-2006, 03:28 PM
poin is, it won't go beyond one, let alone 6. marciano would be overwhelmed and ko'd faster than michael spinks.

tyson in one.

Thats my point. Most likely Tyson finishes it early, more like rounds 3 or 4 not 1. Marciano has only one chance in this fight and that is to out last Tyson. Time is on Marciano's side but it's Tyson who holds the clock.....

RockyMarcianofan00
04-01-2006, 03:30 PM
if Tyson scored a tko it wouldn't be in 1 it would be in 3 or 4

Dempsey 1919
04-01-2006, 03:32 PM
if Tyson scored a tko it wouldn't be in 1 it would be in 3 or 4

tyson punches much harder than walcott or moore, so instead of marciano going down he would stay down.

tyson in one.

RockyMarcianofan00
04-01-2006, 03:38 PM
tyson punches much harder than walcott or moore, so instead of marciano going down he would stay down.

tyson in one.
Marciano had a tough chin and those two shots as i've said were off balance shots, you can tell this because he got up within 2 seconds, its not like he was down for a 9 count

Tyson hit harder yes but Marciano's chin was granite so he could take punishment

Dempsey 1919
04-01-2006, 03:41 PM
Marciano had a tough chin and those two shots as i've said were off balance shots, you can tell this because he got up within 2 seconds, its not like he was down for a 9 count

Tyson hit harder yes but Marciano's chin was granite so he could take punishment

holmes chin was "granite", but look what happened.

RockyMarcianofan00
04-01-2006, 03:42 PM
holmes chin was "granite", but look what happened.
holmes was also past his prime when he fought Tyson
it doesn't seem it but you could tell, he was flat footed, not as much strength and he got staggered more----chin

i don't understand how he managed to get another 20 years of fighting out of that past prime body

Verstyle
04-01-2006, 03:44 PM
holmes chin was "granite", but look what happened.


tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimmmmmmmmmmbeeeeeeeeeer!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

Verstyle
04-01-2006, 03:46 PM
holmes was also way past his prime

i don't understand how he managed to get another 20 years of fighting out of that past prime body


cause he was that good. and holmes was barely passed his prime but yeah he still was but dont make it seem like he was past him prime over 10 years before facing tyson. cause every1 knows if holmes would have won they would have said he was in his prime

Dempsey 1919
04-01-2006, 03:49 PM
cause he was that good. and holmes was barely passed his prime but yeah he still was but dont make it seem like he was past him prime over 10 years before facing tyson. cause every1 knows if holmes would have won they would have said he was in his prime

not really. no one said ali was in his prime when he beat foreman.

RockyMarcianofan00
04-01-2006, 03:54 PM
cause he was that good. and holmes was barely passed his prime but yeah he still was but dont make it seem like he was past him prime over 10 years before facing tyson. cause every1 knows if holmes would have won they would have said he was in his prime
he was past his prime, you could tell by his footwork, he wasn't that past his prime but he was, had he won he would have said he was prime. He actually said that before the fight he's in the best shape of his life

but ali said that before he fought holmes if i'm correct

Verstyle
04-01-2006, 04:19 PM
not really. no one said ali was in his prime when he beat foreman.


cause ali's prime was waaaaaay years ago plus he had a lay off thats why

Verstyle
04-01-2006, 04:20 PM
he was past his prime, you could tell by his footwork, he wasn't that past his prime but he was, had he won he would have said he was prime. He actually said that before the fight he's in the best shape of his life

but ali said that before he fought holmes if i'm correct


here comes butterfly :rolleyes: :D

Dempsey 1919
04-01-2006, 04:28 PM
cause ali's prime was waaaaaay years ago plus he had a lay off thats why

holmes was 37 when he fought tyson, and ali was only 32 when he fought foreman.

Dempsey 1919
04-01-2006, 04:29 PM
here comes butterfly :rolleyes: :D

what do you mean? i agree with him, he did say something like that.

Verstyle
04-01-2006, 04:34 PM
holmes was 37 when he fought tyson, and ali was only 32 when he fought foreman.


every1 knows age doesnt have to do ne thing with prime

Dempsey 1919
04-01-2006, 04:38 PM
every1 knows age doesnt have to do ne thing with prime

it has some connection, though.

Verstyle
04-01-2006, 04:41 PM
it has some connection, though.

SOME is the keyword ;)

Dempsey 1919
04-01-2006, 04:42 PM
SOME is the keyword ;)

yeah, i guess.

so have you met up with kevin rooney yet?

Yogi
04-01-2006, 06:37 PM
and holmes was barely passed his prime

I disagree with that comment, my friend, and pretty strongly at that.

The version of Holmes that Tyson fought was quite a ways from being "barely" past his prime, and you can see a VERY noticable difference in the 1988 Larry Holmes and the one who fought in the late 70's (timing was way off, didn't work the jab as much and with the same purpose, hand & foot speed slowed quite noticably, didn't use his legs nearly as much, and especially his upperbody reflexes slowed a tremendous amount)...Holmes' absolute prime was probably in the years from 1978 to 1980, but you could probably push that from 78-82 if you so chose to include the Cooney fight (although there were writings stating Holmes was already past it going into the Cooney fight).

Watch the version of Holmes that fought Norton & Shavers twice, make the comparision to the one that fought Tyson and what do you see?

The Noose
04-01-2006, 06:40 PM
The Holmes that fought Spinks was definatley past his prime according to the commenators at the first fight.

I would have thought after retirement Holmes was well past his prime.

smasher
04-01-2006, 10:45 PM
The version of Holmes that Tyson fought was quite a ways from being "barely" past his prime, and you can see a VERY noticable difference in the 1988 Larry Holmes and the one who fought in the late 70's (timing was way off, didn't work the jab as much and with the same purpose, hand & foot speed slowed quite noticably, didn't use his legs nearly as much, and especially his upperbody reflexes slowed a tremendous amountYou gotta love those Tyson fans Yogi.

Larry Holmes, winless in 3 years, inactive for 2, previous 2 fights are losses against a light-heavyweight and comes out of retirement at 38 years of age all of which qualifies Larry as barely past his prime.

All the while Tyson as an active undefeated, undisputed heavyweight champion wrecking ball is supposed to be noticeably past his prime at 23....

SuzieQ49
04-01-2006, 11:13 PM
"The movie is such total bull**** I never watch it. It caused a lawsuit by Joey Giardello for one thing, and I testified for Giardello for 8 hours straight in Federal depostions.
After I was done, Beacon pictures and their obnoxious lawyer threw in the towel. If anyone doubts that call George Bochetto the former Pennsylvania Boxing Commissioner who was Giardello's lawyer. Joey G. sat next to me and heard me take them on for 8 hours of everything they could throw at me.

I was supposed to do the choreography and kept all my correspondence showing I refused to make Giardello look like a bum and make it look like a racial robbery. I lost the job because of my stand.

Within one week of my testimony they gave Joey G. $350,000.

So, when I sat ringside with my Father and friend Jay on Dec 14, 1964 watching those two guys fight, never did I realize I would help to get one of them out of jail, and then the other win all that dough suing the other. Life is a ***** and then you die.

Carter and I had a falling out, I could not take his surly personality after all those years of kindness to him. He would drink and if you caught him on a bad day, he would act like he did not even know you. He is a very strong man, has been through a lot, and the police on that case did some bad and illegal things, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

The liberal dush bags who jumped on the bandwagon don't know a ****ing thing about it. That alone makes me throw up my nuts.

It is between Carter and God now.

The movie was such a lie, such a contrived piece of **** concocted by the Canadians in a self-serving vehicle to enshrine their efforts which started out as a benign thing then gravitated to perversion and territoriality.

Not one thing in the movie is true, almost nothing.

I lived that thing with Carter and watching the move with the character of Lezra, who wrote the mother****er a letter in crayon while he was in jail, and that was supposedly the catalyst which created penicillen in this saga? Please.

Lezra Martin's former wife hates his guts, said in public he is full of ****, the movie was a lie, and all the people connected with Carter from the 60's threw up collectively when we saw it.

Some day I will do the real story on it in a move with the Carter story just as the back story. It will be a Deep Throat masterpiece if any producer has the balls to do it.

I'll write a book first."- ronald lipton

SuzieQ49
04-01-2006, 11:13 PM
smasher are u implying mike tyson was in his prime in 1996 after a 4 year layoff?

smasher
04-02-2006, 08:30 AM
smasher are u implying mike tyson was in his prime in 1996 after a 4 year layoff?
I'm implying that the 23 year old Tyson who had the **** kicked out of him by Buster Douglas was...

pug1986
04-02-2006, 10:42 PM
what are you talking about Tyson never had a tough fight? what do you call Tyson vs. Ruddock? Those were one of the all time heavyweight slugfests

Yogi
04-03-2006, 07:19 PM
I'm implying that the 23 year old Tyson who had the **** kicked out of him by Buster Douglas was...

And that's an opinion that I could certainly agree with.

RockyMarcianofan00
04-03-2006, 07:29 PM
if mike tyson hadn't trained by having sex,drinking, and partying in tokyo then James Buster Douglas wouldnt' have been Champion IMO

though that was Busters best

Hydro
04-03-2006, 11:37 PM
Tyson beats the Rock.

You can frustrate Tyson by nullifying his offense by boxing and moving and clinching, but Marciano can't do that being 5'10 with a 71' reach. Tyson is also 30 pounds heavier, and faster.

hemichromis
04-09-2006, 08:23 AM
difficult these are both great fighters with powerful punches whoever connects solidly first would win. i really cant call it!

Mike Tyson77
04-09-2006, 06:27 PM
You gotta love those Tyson fans Yogi.

Larry Holmes, winless in 3 years, inactive for 2, previous 2 fights are losses against a light-heavyweight and comes out of retirement at 38 years of age all of which qualifies Larry as barely past his prime.

All the while Tyson as an active undefeated, undisputed heavyweight champion wrecking ball is supposed to be noticeably past his prime at 23....

There's a HUGE difference between a 20 year old Tyson and a 23 year old Tyson. At age 23, Tyson didnt train hard, was drinking and partying the night before the Buster fight. And in that fight and his past two with Bruno and Williams, he didnt look like the Tyson of old. No head movement, no combos, or any help from his conner.



And no one knocked out holmes before or after this fight. Not even holyfeild. Holmes went 21-3 after this fight, and his 3 losses where against HW Champs.

SABBATH
04-09-2006, 10:49 PM
There's a HUGE difference between a 20 year old Tyson and a 23 year old Tyson. At age 23, Tyson didnt train hard, was drinking and partying the night before the Buster fight. And in that fight and his past two with Bruno and Williams, he didnt look like the Tyson of old. No head movement, no combos, or any help from his conner.



And no one knocked out holmes before or after this fight. Not even holyfeild. Holmes went 21-3 after this fight, and his 3 losses where against HW Champs.

The Williams fight? He knocked The Truth out in one round! How much better was a prime Tyson going to do? Knock him out at the weigh-in?

As for Holmes going 21-3 after the Tyson fight there is a big difference. Holmes came back and fought regularly against journeymen and trial horses much in the manner that George Foreman did building himself back up fight by fight. Holmes gradually adjusted his style to suit his diminished stamina, reflexes and footwork by becoming more proficient and comfortable fighting off the ropes and conserving his energy.

Against Tyson he entered the ring after 2 years of inactivity and with no warm-up fights.

Holmes looked terrible in that fight. Holmes had no legs, no accuracy, no timing and no jab. About all Holmes did was throw one punch at a time and clinch.

Brassangel
04-10-2006, 01:33 AM
Larry Holmes was certainly not in his prime, or barely out of it when he fought Tyson. That's obvious. He did have experience and a splash of ring savvy, but let's face it: stick a 38-year-old man in the ring who hasn't been there in years, with a guy who was in tip top fighting condition and had 20-year old legs...well, enough said.

As for Douglas vs. Tyson. *Ugh* I think we can avoid this fiasco of an argument. Everyone who hates Tyson claims he just got stomped, and everyone who chews Tyson's ball hair claims his world came crashing down before the fight occurred. I like to find that happy medium where we know that Tyson failed to prepare properly and dropped as far out of his comfort zone as he had ever been by that point; while Buster Douglas got in the best shape of his life and used his advantages against Mike's poor choices to beat the crap out of a troubled young man.

NO, Mike was not in true Mike Tyson form that night. Period. Mike Tyson at 20-21 would have beaten Douglas somewhere during rounds 1-4. However, it's his own fault for handling his life, and this fight so stupidly.

YES, Buster Douglas looked fantastic on that night, and really took it to Tyson. James probably would have taken it to almost anybody that night given the circumstances. But, like Tyson, Douglas handled his next fight like a moron, and it cost him.

Everybody needs to stop plugging their ears like a little kid and look at the fact that a whole slew of strange and unusual circumstances came together to make one of the most memorable moments in sports history. Nothing about Tyson or Douglas was "typical" that night.

Back on topic.

Tyson was quicker than Marciano, heavier than Marciano, had a better reach than Marciano, and could put punches together better than Marciano. He had better head movement, and 30 pounds of muscle that says he had greater power. Give Rocky gloves that were 10 oz. heavier and cushier like Mike had to use, and he won't be sending reverberations through Mike's chin any time soon. Mike wins this one in round 4 or 5. Rocky would definitely fight back, and he could take a beating, so it's not like it would be completely one-sided.

RockyMarcianofan00
04-10-2006, 11:45 PM
Larry Holmes was certainly not in his prime, or barely out of it when he fought Tyson. That's obvious. He did have experience and a splash of ring savvy, but let's face it: stick a 38-year-old man in the ring who hasn't been there in years, with a guy who was in tip top fighting condition and had 20-year old legs...well, enough said.

As for Douglas vs. Tyson. *Ugh* I think we can avoid this fiasco of an argument. Everyone who hates Tyson claims he just got stomped, and everyone who chews Tyson's ball hair claims his world came crashing down before the fight occurred. I like to find that happy medium where we know that Tyson failed to prepare properly and dropped as far out of his comfort zone as he had ever been by that point; while Buster Douglas got in the best shape of his life and used his advantages against Mike's poor choices to beat the crap out of a troubled young man.

NO, Mike was not in true Mike Tyson form that night. Period. Mike Tyson at 20-21 would have beaten Douglas somewhere during rounds 1-4. However, it's his own fault for handling his life, and this fight so stupidly.

YES, Buster Douglas looked fantastic on that night, and really took it to Tyson. James probably would have taken it to almost anybody that night given the circumstances. But, like Tyson, Douglas handled his next fight like a moron, and it cost him.

Everybody needs to stop plugging their ears like a little kid and look at the fact that a whole slew of strange and unusual circumstances came together to make one of the most memorable moments in sports history. Nothing about Tyson or Douglas was "typical" that night.

Back on topic.

Tyson was quicker than Marciano, heavier than Marciano, had a better reach than Marciano, and could put punches together better than Marciano. He had better head movement, and 30 pounds of muscle that says he had greater power. Give Rocky gloves that were 10 oz. heavier and cushier like Mike had to use, and he won't be sending reverberations through Mike's chin any time soon. Mike wins this one in round 4 or 5. Rocky would definitely fight back, and he could take a beating, so it's not like it would be completely one-sided.
i compeletely agree with the bold

SlightlyStoopid
04-11-2006, 01:19 AM
Tyson would KO him.

moondog0
04-11-2006, 01:54 PM
I would go with a prime Tyson over the Rock. Rock was to much of a charger and didn't worry a whole lot about defense, Early Tyson was a good defensive fighter with head movement and peek-aboo style. He was elusive and very fast with great combinations, the Rock was a great fighter but I don't think even his heart would have sttod up to tyson's power...

Hous
04-11-2006, 03:46 PM
I would go with a prime Tyson over the Rock. Rock was to much of a charger and didn't worry a whole lot about defense, Early Tyson was a good defensive fighter with head movement and peek-aboo style. He was elusive and very fast with great combinations, the Rock was a great fighter but I don't think even his heart would have sttod up to tyson's power...

Talking about Marciano with different people will give you two completely views on the man. Here are the facts.

-Top 5 greatest chins in boxing history along with, Joe Grim, Jake Lamotta, and i forgot other two.
-More knockouts than any other heavyweight champion in history - 88% only other person to come close was Joe Louis with 87%, then it drops to 60's.
-looks funny on old film, but Louis, and all of the other champions all said the same thing, he is incredibly difficult to hit.
-Louis, Walcott, and George Foreman all placed him as number 2 boxer in the history of the sport.
-The arguement about Marciano beating champs after they are past their prime is absoulte garbage, do you know when he beat Louis there was a 9 year difference, but when Louis, Walcott, Tyson, Ali won the title they all won it from boxers with more of a age difference? Its all true.
-Marciano was only like 187lbs, much smaller than most heavyweights of the time, but still beat them all, 88% by KO.
-P4P best boxer in human history? Definatley of heavyweight division. Only Louis could beat him, which he failed too do twice.
-He beat the best that ever lived.
-when he was 46 years old he beat Ali in a exhibition fight that was deterrimined by computer, noone can say it was incorrect. He died shortly after.

Tyson would be demolished, no contest. Tyson is vicious, but hes not even in the top 10 heavyweights of all time.

These are facts.

I would go with a prime Tyson over the Rock. Rock was to much of a charger and didn't worry a whole lot about defense, Early Tyson was a good defensive fighter with head movement and peek-aboo style. He was elusive and very fast with great combinations, the Rock was a great fighter but I don't think even his heart would have sttod up to tyson's power...
His heart to stand up to his power? LMAO, he is the heart that couldn't be broken. He had amazing defense, he was raely struck, watch his videos people always swung, he looked open but he was rarely hit. when he did he shown struggle with it, even from the legend Joe Louis's gloves.
Ive heard an arguement that Tyson paralyzed someone after a fight, someone tried saying thats proof Marciano wouldn't take a hit from Tyson. Well that means nothing, Tyson has punched alot of people. also Marciano almost killed a proffessional boxer, seriously almost killed the guy.

RockyMarcianofan00
04-11-2006, 04:30 PM
Talking about Marciano with different people will give you two completely views on the man. Here are the facts.

-Top 5 greatest chins in boxing history along with, Joe Grim, Jake Lamotta, and i forgot other two.
-More knockouts than any other heavyweight champion in history - 88% only other person to come close was Joe Louis with 87%, then it drops to 60's.
-looks funny on old film, but Louis, and all of the other champions all said the same thing, he is incredibly difficult to hit.
-Louis, Walcott, and George Foreman all placed him as number 2 boxer in the history of the sport.
-The arguement about Marciano beating champs after they are past their prime is absoulte garbage, do you know when he beat Louis there was a 9 year difference, but when Louis, Walcott, Tyson, Ali won the title they all won it from boxers with more of a age difference? Its all true.
-Marciano was only like 187lbs, much smaller than most heavyweights of the time, but still beat them all, 88% by KO.
-P4P best boxer in human history? Definatley of heavyweight division. Only Louis could beat him, which he failed too do twice.
-He beat the best that ever lived.
-when he was 46 years old he beat Ali in a exhibition fight that was deterrimined by computer, noone can say it was incorrect. He died shortly after.

Tyson would be demolished, no contest. Tyson is vicious, but hes not even in the top 10 heavyweights of all time.

These are facts.


His heart to stand up to his power? LMAO, he is the heart that couldn't be broken. He had amazing defense, he was raely struck, watch his videos people always swung, he looked open but he was rarely hit. when he did he shown struggle with it, even from the legend Joe Louis's gloves.
Ive heard an arguement that Tyson paralyzed someone after a fight, someone tried saying thats proof Marciano wouldn't take a hit from Tyson. Well that means nothing, Tyson has punched alot of people. also Marciano almost killed a proffessional boxer, seriously almost killed the guy.

i knew most of that and its all true

but anybody who reads that post can't discredit any of it- and don't turn this into a Marciano v Ali thread AGAIN

-also Foreman was the closest to the hw KO % with 87%, but he had 90 something before his comeback

The Noose
04-11-2006, 05:05 PM
I have to watch some Marciano, but id say Tyson. If Walcott could put Rocky down, i think Tyson could.
Tyson was extremely fast, and i just think his combinations would KO Rocky.

Also his reactions were quick enough to slip Rockys big shots.

Hous
04-11-2006, 05:12 PM
Rocky poped back up from Walcott, then he KOed Walcott.

the traveler
04-11-2006, 08:24 PM
People always talk about Marciano's ko percentage, and rightfully so, but I think that George Foreman's ko record is the more impressive of the two.

George had 81 fights and 68 knockouts.

Ok, if George would have retired at the end of his 49th fight like Rocky did, their ko's would have looked like this.


George- 47 wins 2 loses= 49 fights. 44 of those 49 fights came from ko victory. That's a 89.79 ko percentage.

At the end of 49 fights, Rocky had 43 knockouts. That's a 87.75 ko percentage.

Now if you want to talk about how rock would have fared, hypothetically, per 81 fights--same amount George had-- if he would have continued at his pace.. he'd have
a 72 percent ko percentage which is lower than George's 83 percent.

Hous
04-11-2006, 09:33 PM
People always talk about Marciano's ko percentage, and rightfully so, but I think that George Foreman's ko record is the more impressive of the two.

George had 81 fights and 68 knockouts.

Ok, if George would have retired at the end of his 49th fight like Rocky did, their ko's would have looked like this.


George- 47 wins 2 loses= 49 fights. 44 of those 49 fights came from ko victory. That's a 89.79 ko percentage.

At the end of 49 fights, Rocky had 43 knockouts. That's a 87.75 ko percentage.

Now if you want to talk about how rock would have fared, hypothetically, per 81 fights--same amount George had-- if he would have continued at his pace.. he'd have
a 72 percent ko percentage which is lower than George's 83 percent.


That is a very hypothetical statement and holds no relevance. Its also false in your calculations. You have Marciano at one less KO at 49 fights right, but at 81 fights you have him at 72% which is 11% lower than foremans, its completely false. There is no way you could correctly come to that calculation, its impossible.


No offense to Foreman but Marciano did fight more iron chins in his 49 fights than Foreman did in his
-Roland LaStanza twice
-Archie Moore
-"Jersey" Joe Walcott twice
-Joe Louis
-Phil Muscato
-Freddie Beshore
-Harry "Kid" Matthews
-Ezzard Charles (Twice)

Foreman had
-Joe Frazier twice
-Muhammad Ali
-Ken Norton
-Ron Lyle

I dont think Marciano is the best boxer in history, but I have to hand it to him for his KOs.

I mean Lastanza is almost impossible to KO, lol.

Brassangel
04-12-2006, 02:50 AM
I hate throwing out a tidbit like this in butterfly fashion, but Marciano commonly used gloves no heavier than 8 oz. Meaning, he basically had a taped hand that was protected when slamming it home against his opponents. Foreman used 14 and 16 oz. gloves with more cushion and higher resiliency to padding redistribution. George Foreman with gloves half the size he was accustomed to would have torn people's heads off.

On the original topic: Marciano wasn't a defensive fighter, wouldn't have reach or height advantage going for him, and Tyson put punches together with trigger-quick speed. He was 215 1/2 at his prime, but he fought with the speed of someone at 165. I honestly don't see this fight going favorably for Marciano.

Just to note, I do believe that Marciano ranks higher on the list of all-time heavyweights than Tyson, but that doesn't mean he'd win the head-to-head, if that makes any sense. (Also, more critics are starting to recognize Tyson as a top 15 and even a top 10 all-time heavyweight because of his amazing skills and physical gifts, regardless of how his career took a flush.)

Hous
04-12-2006, 04:07 AM
I hate throwing out a tidbit like this in butterfly fashion, but Marciano commonly used gloves no heavier than 8 oz. Meaning, he basically had a taped hand that was protected when slamming it home against his opponents. Foreman used 14 and 16 oz. gloves with more cushion and higher resiliency to padding redistribution. George Foreman with gloves half the size he was accustomed to would have torn people's heads off.

Ive never heard that, Ive done some searches on the net with zero sites to clear this up. I don't it is possible for Marciano to box in the pros in the 40s and 50s with less then 8oz gloves, maybe amateurs but not pro.

If this was a true statement everytime Marciano was brought up this would be too. I think its false.

I may be wrong, provide proof.

Marciano took hits from punchers harder than Tyson and still didnt go down(Louis), showed no emotion. He KOed stronger chins than Tyson (LaStanza. For these most important reasons that Marciano scored 2:0, it is clear to me Marciano would probley beat Tyson.

Yaman
04-12-2006, 06:47 AM
Ive never heard that, Ive done some searches on the net with zero sites to clear this up. I don't it is possible for Marciano to box in the pros in the 40s and 50s with less then 8oz gloves, maybe amateurs but not pro.

If this was a true statement everytime Marciano was brought up this would be too. I think its false.

I may be wrong, provide proof.

Marciano took hits from punchers harder than Tyson and still didnt go down(Louis), showed no emotion. He KOed stronger chins than Tyson (LaStanza. For these most important reasons that Marciano scored 2:0, it is clear to me Marciano would probley beat Tyson.

Marciano didn't take hard punches from punchers who could punch harder than a prime Tyson. Louis had lost some speed and effect on his punches(Not that much though). Not saying Marciano couldn't take a Tyson punch, im saying that if he gets too often he would be stopped. Same for Tyson. He would not be able to take TOO many punches from Marciano before being stopped.

Brassangel
04-12-2006, 04:32 PM
The oz. issue is often brought up when discussing damage inflicted/taken during different eras of heavyweight history. Not only were they lighter, but it was common for the padding to shift towards the wrist or the back of the hand as the fight progressed. While this may cause the knuckles to bruise a little more, it also did some nasty things to people's faces.

Information like this is tough to come by. Often times it is best to find it in books detailing boxer biographies than to browse the internet. If, for example, one reads Floyd Patterson's biography, it is noted that Sonny Liston was one of the first professional fighters to use gloves that were 14-15 oz. in a title fight. Even with heavier, cushier gloves, he was still clobbering people.

Now, while Marciano probably took shots from guys who hit harder in one shot than Tyson did, few of them put punches together like Tyson did. Joe Louis would have, had the fight been ten years earlier. I just see this as a bad style matchup for Marciano, even though he's a greater champion overall.

Yaman
04-12-2006, 05:09 PM
The oz. issue is often brought up when discussing damage inflicted/taken during different eras of heavyweight history. Not only were they lighter, but it was common for the padding to shift towards the wrist or the back of the hand as the fight progressed. While this may cause the knuckles to bruise a little more, it also did some nasty things to people's faces.

Information like this is tough to come by. Often times it is best to find it in books detailing boxer biographies than to browse the internet. If, for example, one reads Floyd Patterson's biography, it is noted that Sonny Liston was one of the first professional fighters to use gloves that were 14-15 oz. in a title fight. Even with heavier, cushier gloves, he was still clobbering people.

Now, while Marciano probably took shots from guys who hit harder in one shot than Tyson did , few of them put punches together like Tyson did. Joe Louis would have, had the fight been ten years earlier. I just see this as a bad style matchup for Marciano, even though he's a greater champion overall.

Who? Tell me wich fighters did.

Hous
04-12-2006, 05:57 PM
Who? Tell me wich fighters did.

Rex Layne, a powerful puncher, who knocked out 25 of his first 36 opponents. 69%
Harry "Kid" Mathews, with 61 KOs in 87 wins. 70%.
Archie Moore, the man who holds the record for the most knock outs of any fighter who ever lived; 145 KOs in 199 wins. 73%.
Walcott, 30 KOs in 50 wins, for 60%.
Joe Louis, 49 KOs in 63 wins, 78%
Eddie Ross 23 KOs in 26 wins at time they fought. 88%

http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/ring_punchers.htm
In 2003, the writers of Ring Magazine published a ranking of the 100 greatest punchers of all-time. Not unlike an all-time pound-for-pound ranking, this list compares fighters across different weight categories and different eras. As such, it's entirely open for debate ...

1. Joe Louis
2. Sam Langford
3. Jimmy Wilde
4. Archie Moore
5. Sandy Saddler
6. Stanley Ketchell
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. George Foreman
10. Earnie Shavers
11. Sugar Ray Robinson
12. Ruben Olivares
13. Wilfredo Gomez
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Sonny Liston
16. Mike Tyson

Clearly places Marciano above Tyson for having a more powerful punch, Tyson has like 40 pounds on him too. Marciano = 187lbs Tyson = 220? Anyways Marciano KOed, and was struck by the number one and number 4 most powerful punchers in history of the sport.

I used this site as a reference because it doesnt favor my opinion either, i would place Marciano much higher up for the reason that he KOed the highest percentage of heavyweights in history, many of them were iron chins aswell. I would place Marciano above Sugar Ray Robinson for more powerful puncher.

Yogi
04-12-2006, 06:32 PM
Ive never heard that, Ive done some searches on the net with zero sites to clear this up. I don't it is possible for Marciano to box in the pros in the 40s and 50s with less then 8oz gloves, maybe amateurs but not pro.

If this was a true statement everytime Marciano was brought up this would be too. I think its false.

I may be wrong, provide proof.

In March of 1948 the National Boxing Association adopted their 21-Point Safety Code (mandatory eight count brought in use, KO'd fighter must be inactive/suspended for so long, etc., etc.), and one of the new rules they implemented was that any and all professional boxing matches under their banner must be fought with the use of eight ounce gloves at the minimum...That included any and all weight classes.

Very soon after those new rules were implemented by state athletic commissions such as California, New York, and many other states with frequent boxing shows. There were even some 'lesser' state/boxing commissions that took that a step higher and made it mandatory for ten ounce gloves to be used in all boxing matches, but those were mainly mid-western state commissions.

The many changes to make the sport safer was a direct result of Jimmy Doyle losing his life after challenging Sugar Ray Robinson for the welterweight title.

Brassangel
04-12-2006, 07:41 PM
In March of 1948 the National Boxing Association adopted their 21-Point Safety Code (mandatory eight count brought in use, KO'd fighter must be inactive/suspended for so long, etc., etc.), and one of the new rules they implemented was that any and all professional boxing matches under their banner must be fought with the use of eight ounce gloves at the minimum...That included any and all weight classes.

Very soon after those new rules were implemented by state athletic commissions such as California, New York, and many other states with frequent boxing shows. There were even some 'lesser' state/boxing commissions that took that a step higher and made it mandatory for ten ounce gloves to be used in all boxing matches, but those were mainly mid-western state commissions.

The many changes to make the sport safer was a direct result of Jimmy Doyle losing his life after challenging Sugar Ray Robinson for the welterweight title.

Thanks, Yogi. This helps tie a few details together.

Now, back to the topic at hand.

While I imagine that those who have made up their minds about this battle will stay that way regardless of the information presented, I will conclude that this would be a heck of a battle. I do believe, without a doubt, that Tyson would be the aggressor; he's faster, more accurate, and a good defensive fighter. Marciano is almost impossible to put away, however. Joe Louis may have been able to do it if the fight had been ten years earlier. I wouldn't include Louis in the "punches harder than Tyson" category here, as the Brown Bomber was not at his best when he fought Marciano. He certainly didn't strike harder than Mike did by that time.

Even so, it would be a bloody, bloody mess. Throw Liston in there and let all three of them go at it!

Yaman
04-13-2006, 06:15 AM
Rex Layne, a powerful puncher, who knocked out 25 of his first 36 opponents. 69%
Harry "Kid" Mathews, with 61 KOs in 87 wins. 70%.
Archie Moore, the man who holds the record for the most knock outs of any fighter who ever lived; 145 KOs in 199 wins. 73%.
Walcott, 30 KOs in 50 wins, for 60%.
Joe Louis, 49 KOs in 63 wins, 78%
Eddie Ross 23 KOs in 26 wins at time they fought. 88%

http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/ring_punchers.htm


Clearly places Marciano above Tyson for having a more powerful punch, Tyson has like 40 pounds on him too. Marciano = 187lbs Tyson = 220? Anyways Marciano KOed, and was struck by the number one and number 4 most powerful punchers in history of the sport.

I used this site as a reference because it doesnt favor my opinion either, i would place Marciano much higher up for the reason that he KOed the highest percentage of heavyweights in history, many of them were iron chins aswell. I would place Marciano above Sugar Ray Robinson for more powerful puncher.

NONE of those fighters hit harder than a prime Tyson fool. A past his prime Joe Louis comes close but he lost a lot on his punches by that time.

Dempsey1238
04-13-2006, 11:16 AM
I hate throwing out a tidbit like this in butterfly fashion, but Marciano commonly used gloves no heavier than 8 oz. Meaning, he basically had a taped hand that was protected when slamming it home against his opponents. Foreman used 14 and 16 oz. gloves with more cushion and higher resiliency to padding redistribution. George Foreman with gloves half the size he was accustomed to would have torn people's heads off.

On the original topic: Marciano wasn't a defensive fighter, wouldn't have reach or height advantage going for him, and Tyson put punches together with trigger-quick speed. He was 215 1/2 at his prime, but he fought with the speed of someone at 165. I honestly don't see this fight going favorably for Marciano.

Just to note, I do believe that Marciano ranks higher on the list of all-time heavyweights than Tyson, but that doesn't mean he'd win the head-to-head, if that makes any sense. (Also, more critics are starting to recognize Tyson as a top 15 and even a top 10 all-time heavyweight because of his amazing skills and physical gifts, regardless of how his career took a flush.)

Foreman did fight with 8 Oz gloves though. He had 8oz vs Chalvo and Pires, and Foreman did not killed them. Nor did he walk out of the ring with there heads attach to his gloves. I think the Oz gloves thing is over rated.

Brassangel
04-13-2006, 12:17 PM
Take instances, like his matches with Frazier and Norton, where he really messed people up and give him the same equipment Rocky used. When he was ripe and on target, that's a scary notion.

The oz. thing is sometimes overrated, but things like the differences in conditioning between fighters from one era to the next is often overlooked. Now, while I believe that Marciano was a better champion than George Foreman, I certainly don't believe, after lots of film study, that Marciano could hit harder than Foreman. Marciano did, however, pit punches together better than Big George and thus may have been more effective.

I guess when I think of what would happen to an aggressor who goes after Mike, I picture Peter McNeely and how effective that plan was NOT; even after a 3+ year layoff. While Marciano is 1000% better than the Hurricane, he would leave himself way too available to Mike's combinations. If anything, there would be stoppage. I guess it's not worth continuing this arguments as everybody is one way or the other while I would prefer to just see it happen.

Does anybody remember when ESPN did those film edited, digital renderings of the great football dynasties throughout history and put them in a tournament against one another? They should do that with heavyweight champions, and leave out anything stereotypical (ie: ear biting, 15th round hooks, etc.).

Hous
04-13-2006, 12:40 PM
Foreman did fight with 8 Oz gloves though. He had 8oz vs Chalvo and Pires, and Foreman did not killed them. Nor did he walk out of the ring with there heads attach to his gloves. I think the Oz gloves thing is over rated.

Thank you, you totally demolished his only arguement left.

About the conditioning thing, noone denies Rocky Marciano was the most conditioned fighter to ever enter the ring. He has superior stanima over every boxer. Thats the reason he is one of the best boxers of all time, if not the greatest. He threw some of the most powerful punches, which could KO anyone, but he through 10 more after that. He never stopped.

Walcott said "Louis could KO you with a combintion, but Marciano could KO you in one punch"

LaStanza said "I would throw a punch and Marciano would throw a punch, the difference is he would throw ten more"

Rocky Marciano being the most conditioned boxer is something everyone agrees on. He fought Heavyweight at 180 - 187lbs 5'10! The average was more than 200 back then.

the traveler
04-13-2006, 12:50 PM
Hous, I came up with different factorings for a 81th fight Marciano, and the fact still stands, at 49 fights, Foreman had a better ko percentage than Marciano did.

I doubt that Rock would have been able to have been able to not fall 6 percentage points down in Ko percentage by the time he reached his 81th fight.

Hous
04-13-2006, 01:13 PM
Hous, I came up with different factorings for a 81th fight Marciano, and the fact still stands, at 49 fights, Foreman had a better ko percentage than Marciano did.

I doubt that Rock would have been able to have been able to not fall 6 percentage points down in Ko percentage by the time he reached his 81th fight.

Your calculations were way off. How can you have foreman at 89% KOs on 49 fights, Marciano at 88% KOs on 49 fights but then have 11% difference if Marciano continued to fight? Now you correct it and say there is a 6% difference, still impossible. Doesn't take much math skill to figure this out, not insulting you, you proley are using a more complex formula that isnt right for the situation.

The final calculation wouldn't be off by more than a 2% and thats final. The reson it is irrealevant is because you would get the same KO%, just the difference will increase exponetially. Say their is a % at 49, then at 98 there would be a 2% difference, at 196 the difference would be 4%. As you can see Foremans KO% didn't continue in that manner and Marciano retired, it is unfair to attempt those calculations without propper data.

Its stupid that you would even try to pass that off as a fact, I actually took the time and looked at your calculations and instantly saw they were flawed. Plus who is to say Marciano would stop KOing people? Thats a very sujestive thing to say, and has no evidence to support it.

It also left out other factors like Marciano was 24 when he started to box professionally, Foreman was 20, foreman had 4 more years at the average prime of a boxer. Im not even going to consider this fact in my own reasoning because it means pretty much nothing to me, I onl mentioned it because you brought up a fact that means nothing, and is flawed. Your calculations.

Do you deny Marciano KOed more iron chins in his 49 fights than Foremans first 49? I dont think you will...

No offense to Foreman but Marciano did fight more iron chins in his 49 fights than Foreman did in his
-Roland LaStanza twice
-Archie Moore
-"Jersey" Joe Walcott twice
-Joe Louis
-Phil Muscato
-Freddie Beshore
-Harry "Kid" Matthews
-Ezzard Charles (Twice)
-Roland LaStanza (Twice)

Foreman had
-Joe Frazier twice
-Muhammad Ali
-Ken Norton
-Ron Lyle


Foreman is a better boxer than Marciano in the long run because Marciano was a swarmer who took alot of hits, you cant absorb many blows and continue fighting 20 years. Marcianos KO % shouldn't be as high as it is knowing his style, size, and longevity of his career. But he was.

He was even rumored to try to get back into the professional ring when he got much older, but he died.

the traveler
04-13-2006, 01:28 PM
You need to read what I said again, I didn't say him having a 72 percent ko percentage at 81 fights was a fact, I said hypothetically. If you don't know what hypothetically means, please pick up a dictionary because it sure doesn't mean "fact."

Forget the hypothetical statement. The fact still is that Foreman had a higher ko percentage at the end of 49 fights then Maricano did. I was only pointing that out to people.

Who fought the tougher chins? That's your opinion. The facts still stands. Don't even try to argue with it.

Hous
04-13-2006, 01:49 PM
You need to read what I said again, I didn't say him having a 72 percent ko percentage at 81 fights was a fact, I said hypothetically. If you don't know what hypothetically means, please pick up a dictionary because it sure doesn't mean "fact."

Forget the hypothetical statement. The fact still is that Foreman had a higher ko percentage at the end of 49 fights then Maricano did. I was only pointing that out to people.

Who fought the tougher chins? That's your opinion. The facts still stands. Don't even try to argue with it.

Im saying in all honestly it is impossible to get those calculations with that data. You cannot have hypothetical results that do not reflect the data, thats common sence.

Prove me wrong, show me how you got 11% difference from data that showed a 1% difference, im intrigued.

Who fought the tough chins in those 489 fights is a well known fact, look up those names, say for instance for every fighter they fought in their 49 fights was in the top 20 chins give them 1 point, top 10 give them 2, top 5 give them 3. Without any doubt in my mind Marciano will blow Foreman away, he truely fought the toughest chins in the buisness.

I know you agree with me wheather or not you are going to admitt it here on the internet. I gave you the list of chins yesterday and you said nothing about it but about it because brassangle said Rocky sometimes used 8oz gloves. Which we all know is irrealevant because Foreman did aswell. Now we are bringing it back to your false calculations.

the traveler
04-13-2006, 02:29 PM
I used some factors such as age, etc, but still, forget the hypothetical result. Stick to the 49 fight. That's the main thing I was trying to point out. Stop trying to harbor on that other ****.

Hous
04-13-2006, 02:52 PM
I used some factors such as age, etc, but still, forget the hypothetical result. Stick to the 49 fight. That's the main thing I was trying to point out. Stop trying to harbor on that other ****.

Im not harboring onto anything, just pointed out your calcualtions were false. if the age thing was included it would favor Marciano, which your calculations clearly havent.

1973
01-22 -- Joe Frazier, Kingston, Jamaica, W TKO 2
(Won WBC Heavyweight Title)
(Won WBA Heavyweight Title)
04-28 -- Lonnie Bennett, Las Vegas, NV, Exh 2
04-28 -- Victor Scott, Las Vegas, NV, Exh 2
04-28 -- Terry Hinsky, Las Vegas, NV, Exh
04-28 -- Eddie Jones, Las Vegas, NV, Exh
09-01 -- Jose (King) Roman, Tokyo, Japan, W KO 1
(Retained WBC Heavyweight Title)
(Retained WBA Heavyweight Title)

1974
03-26 -- Ken Norton, Caracas, Venezuela, W TKO 2
(Retained WBC Heavyweight Title)
(Retained WBA Heavyweight Title)
10-30 -- Muhammad Ali, Kinshasa, Zaire, L KO 8
(Lost WBC Heavyweight Title)
(Lost WBA Heavyweight Title)

1975
04-26 -- Charley Polite, Toronto, Canada, Exh 3
04-26 -- Boone Kirkman, Toronto, Canada, Exh 3
04-26 -- Terry Daniels, Toronto, Canada, Exh 2
04-26 -- Jerry Judge, Toronto, Canada, Exh 2
04-26 -- Alonzo Johnson, Toronto, Canada, Exh 2
11-26 -- Jody Ballard, Kiamesha Lake, NY, Exh 2
12-17 -- Eddie Brooks, San Francisco, CA, Exh 4

1976
01-24 -- Ron Lyle, Las Vegas, NV, W KO 5
06-15 -- Joe Frazier, Uniondale, NY, W TKO 5
08-16 -- Scott LeDoux, Utica, NY, W TKO 3
10-15 -- John (Dino) Dennis, Hollywood, FL, W TKO 4

1977
01-22 -- Pedro Agosto, Pensacola, FL, W TKO 4
03-17 -- Jimmy Young, San Juan, Puerto Rico, L 12
http://boxing.about.com/od/records/a/foreman.htm

These are the fights that happened when he was the same age as Marciano, 80% KO rate. This doesn't mean much though but it means a hell of alot more than your calcualtions.

Whats more impressive is if I take Marcianos record at the same age.
March 17, 1947 Lee Epperson W KO 3 Holyoke, Massachusetts
July 12, 1948.... Harry Bilazarian... W KO 1 Providence, Rhode Island
July 19, 1948 .... John Edwards... W KO 1 Providence, Rhode Island
Aug. 9, 1948.... Bobby Quinn... W KO 3 Providence, Rhode Island
Aug. 23, 1948.... Eddie Ross... W KO 1 Providence, Rhode Island
Aug. 30, 1948.... Jimmy Weeks... W KO 1 Providence, Rhode Island
Sept. 13, 1948.... Jerry Jackson... W KO 1 Providence, Rhode Island
Sept. 20, 1948.... Bill Hurdeman... W KO 1 Providence, Rhode Island
Sept. 30, 1948.... Gil Cardione... W KO 1 Washington, DC
Oct. 4, 1948.... Bob Jefferson... W KO 2 Providence, Rhode Island
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//Rock2.html

Now you understand, he KOed 100% of his first 15 fights. The reason why I am showing you this is because this is exactly what you did to me and didnt realize what you did. Now you see, I picked what I wanted to show you in compareson to Foreman at the same age. I bet you anything you were saying the same thing about the compareson I said about yours, which you found irrealeavant. You were sitting there thinking "but Foreman fought more impressive fights at that age," and your right. That was the purpose of my post here, Marciano fought more more impressive fighteres in his career than Foreman did in his first 49 fights. You cant have it both ways.

Pretty sneaky, eh?

Stephen Clement
04-13-2006, 03:00 PM
okay so tyson never lost to any one smaller than himself, but guess what rock never lost at all.

tyson has lost to good,mediocre and ****ty oposition.

mike allways lost when his opponent wasnt afraid off him.

This was the key in all of his early losses, the lack of fear by Douglas and Holyfield got them by Tyson in the early rounds, and then their talent defeated him. Marciano, Frazier, and most certainly George Forman, would not have been afraid of him, and all had the talent and the power to beat him.

Comparing fighters of different era is really a fools game, but for a second, lets put Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Robinson, Bernard Hopkins, Carlos Monzon, and Roy Jones Jr. in a round robin championship tournement, who would be the greatest? Who would triumph over the rest of the competition? To my mind each of these men would be capable of defeating the other, its just a matter of who is having the best day.

Dempsey1238
04-13-2006, 03:02 PM
would also say Bill Corum on commantry of the Archie Moore fight, that the ****ell fight was 8 Oz gloves. and mostly in a heavyweight title fight, there are 8Oz gloves. But here there 6 Oz. Corum did say it was Odd they were 6Oz, and it might effect Marciano's punching power.

So in the Moore fight, they were 6 Oz gloves, and yet the damage Marciano gave to Moore, and ****ell were about the same.