View Full Version : Fighters who's careers were cut short and are over rated, under rated


JAB5239
08-16-2010, 10:41 PM
I've been seeing a lot of print for Gerald McClellan lately and how he was an all time puncher and would have been an all time great had his career not been tragically cut short. I personally think it is the circumstances of his tragedy and currant state that compel some on here to over rate him. He was certainly a good fighter and heavy handed but because of his lack of prime top comp I simply can't make him out to be more than he was....a good heavy handed fighter.

Young Stribling was also a heavy handed fighter who's career was cut short at age 28 by a motorcycle accident. Like McClellan, Stribling had a lot of ko's against ham and egger's. The difference being he also had many victories over top fighters of the day and proved himself competitive with the elite. It's unfortunate but Stribling really isn't known by many of todays new fans who would just automatically say a McClellan would have been great. Can he even compare to a fighter who was 256-16-14 (128)?

Than there is Salvador Sanchez who was killed at age 23. Of these 3 fighters Sanchez is clearly the best. How much different would his legacy be today though had he lived but his boxing career fizzled out much the way Wilfred Benitez's career did? Many rank him as one of the greatest fighters ever and a strong argument can be made for that based on his competition. Would that be different today had he lived and the scenario I laid out happened?

1SILVA
08-16-2010, 11:56 PM
I've been seeing a lot of print for Gerald McClellan lately and how he was an all time puncher and would have been an all time great had his career not been tragically cut short. I personally think it is the circumstances of his tragedy and currant state that compel some on here to over rate him. He was certainly a good fighter and heavy handed but because of his lack of prime top comp I simply can't make him out to be more than he was....a good heavy handed fighter.

Young Stribling was also a heavy handed fighter who's career was cut short at age 28 by a motorcycle accident. Like McClellan, Stribling had a lot of ko's against ham and egger's. The difference being he also had many victories over top fighters of the day and proved himself competitive with the elite. It's unfortunate but Stribling really isn't known by many of todays new fans who would just automatically say a McClellan would have been great. Can he even compare to a fighter who was 256-16-14 (128)?

Than there is Salvador Sanchez who was killed at age 23. Of these 3 fighters Sanchez is clearly the best. How much different would his legacy be today though had he lived but his boxing career fizzled out much the way Wilfred Benitez's career did? Many rank him as one of the greatest fighters ever and a strong argument can be made for that based on his competition. Would that be different today had he lived and the scenario I laid out happened?

Had Sanchez lived he would eventually of fought Chavez and in my opinion, would have defeated him, making him the undisputed greatest Mexican fighter of all time. He would have rematched with Nelson and Gomez, and would have spanked a young Roger Mayweather, as well as beating Rocky Lockridge. Sanchez legacy would have increased tremendously had he not died so young. I think Ike Ibeaubuchi and Stanley Ketchel would also have increased their legacies had their careers not been cut short as well.

paulsinghnl
08-17-2010, 12:03 AM
if ur talking about missed opportunities.. i heard u can look in Don King's closet too.. plenty of great fighters there that never made it, Tim Witherspoon?

the one i think was cut short and really sucks (because it's his own fault, laziness) is Riddick "Big Daddy" Bowe. he could've been the greatest according to Eddie Futch. but the fights with Golota.. took too much damage in his career.. could've been so much more i think.

JAB5239
08-17-2010, 12:06 AM
Had Sanchez lived he would eventually of fought Chavez and in my opinion, would have defeated him, making him the undisputed greatest Mexican fighter of all time. He would have rematched with Nelson and Gomez, and would have spanked a young Roger Mayweather, as well as beating Rocky Lockridge. Sanchez legacy would have increased tremendously had he not died so young. I think Ike Ibeaubuchi and Stanley Ketchel would also have increased their legacies had their careers not been cut short as well.

While a case can be made for Ketchel (though I've read he had begun sliding before his death) and you've made a good one for Sanchez, I totally disagree about Ibeabuchi. VERY overrated in my opinion. Much like McClellan his accomplishments have been blown up and out of proportion. He had two good wins over fighters who were good, but limited. No telling how he would have done when faced with a bigger fighter like Lewis or a fighter like Holyfield. we know by his life that he wasn'y very good at dealing with adversity.

JAB5239
08-17-2010, 12:09 AM
if ur talking about missed opportunities.. i heard u can look in Don King's closet too.. plenty of great fighters there that never made it, Tim Witherspoon?

the one i think was cut short and really sucks (because it's his own fault, laziness) is Riddick "Big Daddy" Bowe. he could've been the greatest according to Eddie Futch. but the fights with Golota.. took too much damage in his career.. could've been so much more i think.

Im not talking about missed opportunities my man, but careers cut short before a fighter may have reached his potential. And while I agree to an extent about Bowe, he doesn't fit into this thread.

sonnyboyx2
08-17-2010, 03:12 AM
if ur talking about missed opportunities.. i heard u can look in Don King's closet too.. plenty of great fighters there that never made it, Tim Witherspoon?

the one i think was cut short and really sucks (because it's his own fault, laziness) is Riddick "Big Daddy" Bowe. he could've been the greatest according to Eddie Futch. but the fights with Golota.. took too much damage in his career.. could've been so much more i think.

Eddie Futch said, "Bowe was a lost cause" before the 2 Golota fights.

sonnyboyx2
08-17-2010, 03:13 AM
Im not talking about missed opportunities my man, but careers cut short before a fighter may have reached his potential. And while I agree to an extent about Bowe, he doesn't fit into this thread.

Harry Simon

JAB5239
08-17-2010, 03:22 AM
Harry Simon

Good pick sonny! He was certainly up and coming beating top comp before being sent to prison. Underrated or overrated?

JAB5239
08-17-2010, 03:25 AM
Edwin Valero is a fighter who's career was cut short but who I thought was hugely overrated while fighting. Opinions?

Bright-Eyes
08-17-2010, 03:38 AM
Edwin Valero is a fighter who's career was cut short but who I thought was hugely overrated while fighting. Opinions?




I need to watch more of him but I wasn't impressed with his power against Antonio Demarco.He dominated a good solid boxer but he hit him many times and his punches just didnt seem to be as heavy as advertised.

Heru
08-17-2010, 04:15 AM
Edwin Valero is a fighter who's career was cut short but who I thought was hugely overrated while fighting. Opinions?

Underrated... The way he handled adversity and practically shutout good fighter in Mosquera and DeMarco tell me that much.

Look at the Mosquera fight, it was in Mosquera's home country of Panama. Valero came out strong and dropped him, Mosquera though was hitting him hard with right hands early and dropped him... Valero adjusted and came back to dominate him.

Look at the DeMarco fight, it was in DeMarco's home country of Mexico. Valero got a huge cut on his forehead early, bleeding plenty. He didn't panic, it was as if the cut wasn't even there. DeMarco kept coming at him and he went in to boxing/volume punching mode.

He could transition from power puncher to volume puncher. They were discussing about him moving up and fighting Lamont Peterson too. He would've beaten him. He had a lot left to do in his career.

Hopefully my dude Kirkland doesn't turn his career short as well.

Silencers
08-17-2010, 04:44 AM
Masao Oba. He doesn't get talked about much but I think he could've gone on to achieve some good things had he not passed away, already had some good wins on his record, he had 5 defenses of his title and was still only 23 years old.

sonnyboyx2
08-17-2010, 04:55 AM
Good pick sonny! He was certainly up and coming beating top comp before being sent to prison. Underrated or overrated?

Harry Simon is vastly under-rated he was good enough as a 16 fight novice to beat a peak Winky Wright for the WBO Title, Simon defended his title 5 times before suffering a serious injuries in a car crash which killed 2 people in 2002, Simon was sent to prison for it and resumed his career on his release yet his best years are now lost and behind him.

talip bin osman
08-17-2010, 05:16 AM
bad boy tony ayala jr...

most promising this, most promising that...

NChristo
08-17-2010, 10:00 AM
if ur talking about missed opportunities.. i heard u can look in Don King's closet too.. plenty of great fighters there that never made it, Tim Witherspoon?

the one i think was cut short and really sucks (because it's his own fault, laziness) is Riddick "Big Daddy" Bowe. he could've been the greatest according to Eddie Futch. but the fights with Golota.. took too much damage in his career.. could've been so much more i think.

By the start of 93 onwards you can really start to see Bowe go downhill fast, he was done by the Golota fights unfortunately.

GJC
08-17-2010, 10:07 AM
Guess you would have to imagine what the legacy of say Tyson suddenly stopping after the Carl Williams fight. Many rate him as the GOAT with his career as it stands so throwing in a lot of what might have beens would probably put him above Ali in many peoples minds.

I'll get a lot of stick for this but I do think Les Darcy is a touch overrated, great fighter but I have seen him ranked in top ten atg MW's which in such a deep division is too high IMO.
Not saying he couldn't have got there but I always think there is a bit of James Dean going on there.
Ironically Dave Sands, Darcy's countryman barely gets a mention but for my money was a great fighter.

NChristo
08-17-2010, 10:16 AM
Guess you would have to imagine what the legacy of say Tyson suddenly stopping after the Carl Williams fight. Many rate him as the GOAT with his career as it stands so throwing in a lot of what might have beens would probably put him above Ali in many peoples minds.

I'll get a lot of stick for this but I do think Les Darcy is a touch overrated, great fighter but I have seen him ranked in top ten atg MW's which in such a deep division is too high IMO.
Not saying he couldn't have got there but I always think there is a bit of James Dean going on there.
Ironically Dave Sands, Darcy's countryman barely gets a mention but for my money was a great fighter.

When you mentioned Les Darcy I just remembered Dave Sands, was going to mention him but you already did lol, great fighter, loved his style, would of liked to see him fight the 50s Middleweights.

NChristo
08-17-2010, 10:23 AM
Marcel Cerdan's career was somewhat cut short he still had a decent run. Tends to get very under rated, great boxer that could do everything.

GJC
08-17-2010, 11:04 AM
Marcel Cerdan's career was somewhat cut short he still had a decent run. Tends to get very under rated, great boxer that could do everything.
Cerdan is a fighter that is severely underrated IMO.
Whilst he died tragically young I'm not 100% sure that he had much more to give though. Could see him beating La Motta in the rematch but then a fellow by the name of Robinson was lurking!
Think the war and not getting to America sooner did him more harm career wise.
Would have loved to have seen the Holman Williams v Cerdan fight

Calilloyd
08-17-2010, 02:08 PM
I've been seeing a lot of print for Gerald McClellan lately and how he was an all time puncher and would have been an all time great had his career not been tragically cut short. I personally think it is the circumstances of his tragedy and currant state that compel some on here to over rate him. He was certainly a good fighter and heavy handed but because of his lack of prime top comp I simply can't make him out to be more than he was....a good heavy handed fighter.

Young Stribling was also a heavy handed fighter who's career was cut short at age 28 by a motorcycle accident. Like McClellan, Stribling had a lot of ko's against ham and egger's. The difference being he also had many victories over top fighters of the day and proved himself competitive with the elite. It's unfortunate but Stribling really isn't known by many of todays new fans who would just automatically say a McClellan would have been great. Can he even compare to a fighter who was 256-16-14 (128)?

Than there is Salvador Sanchez who was killed at age 23. Of these 3 fighters Sanchez is clearly the best. How much different would his legacy be today though had he lived but his boxing career fizzled out much the way Wilfred Benitez's career did? Many rank him as one of the greatest fighters ever and a strong argument can be made for that based on his competition. Would that be different today had he lived and the scenario I laid out happened?

Ike Ibeabuchi and Tony Ayala Jr. Both certainly demonstarted the potential to go far. How far they could have gone is just speculation. I think both tend to get overrated and underrated.

BennyST
08-18-2010, 03:12 AM
I'll get a lot of stick for this but I do think Les Darcy is a touch overrated, great fighter but I have seen him ranked in top ten atg MW's which in such a deep division is too high IMO.
Not saying he couldn't have got there but I always think there is a bit of James Dean going on there.
Ironically Dave Sands, Darcy's countryman barely gets a mention but for my money was a great fighter.

Damn right you'll get a lot of stick. I'm coming after you myself! I know where you live buddy and I'm coming for ya for saying something so blasphemous! :purity:

Sands though.....Amazing fighter that never really got his big chance. Was sitting just behind Ray Robinson trying to get him to fight when his tragic, early death occurred. He had just destroyed Dick Turpin though in one of the great upsets and was well on his way to establishing himself as one of the greats of that time in my opinion. His record was something like 100-10 and he was only 25!

Carl 'Bobo' Olson famously said, when he won the title, that it belonged to Dave, after Olson was whipped twice by Sands just before he won it, and with all the trouble that Sands had trying to get a title shot, Olson felt he was the rightful owner of it.

BennyST
08-18-2010, 03:21 AM
Still, and this doesn't really fit the thread title, Young Griffo is my bet of most underrated. He was kind of cut short as he was a massive, raging alcoholic throughout his entire career and many of his bouts were fought pissed as a fart.

Nonetheless, he beat some of the greatest fighters of his time, making the majority look utterly inept. It's said by many that he was the greatest natural fighter that ever lived and was the best defensive genius too. Over a 240 fight career he only lost nine of them and he had fought on even though he was severely broken down and ruined by the demon drink. Sad.

He fought three bouts with the great Joe Gans, and this was at a time when he was sinking down into mayhem, and the first two were draws and the last being a loss for Griffo.

If any modern fighter existed that we could link him to, it would most definitely be Nicolino Locche. Didn't have great power, didn't have a fighters 'body' or look to him, didn't train, smoked and drank like a fish and yet rarely ever lost and fought the best of his time while taking his career as just a general lark overall and something fun to do to pass the time.

Ziggy Stardust
08-18-2010, 09:56 AM
Aaron Pryor and Diego Corrales.

GJC
08-18-2010, 06:01 PM
Damn right you'll get a lot of stick. I'm coming after you myself! I know where you live buddy and I'm coming for ya for saying something so blasphemous! :purity:



I'll put the chain on :)
Where do you have Darcy then Benny in MW atg's out of curiousity?