View Full Version : Who Was Stronger: Wlad Klitschko or Muhammad Ali


Wlad Klitschko
08-16-2010, 01:07 PM
And by strength i mean punching power and just lifting type strength, who would have more strength in the clinch, or if you put them in a gym who would lift more.

Magnifico!
08-16-2010, 01:09 PM
Probably Klitschko because he is bigger?

But fights are not won by how much you can bench.

Ali would spank Klitschko for 15 rounds like he did Terrel.

SBleeder
08-16-2010, 01:27 PM
Who cares.

Wlad Klitschko
08-16-2010, 02:19 PM
Probably Klitschko because he is bigger?

But fights are not won by how much you can bench.

Ali would spank Klitschko for 15 rounds like he did Terrel.

Who is Terrell? Sorry, I only became a fan a few years ago. How long was he a HW champion for? Was he as big as Wlad, since you say Wlad was stronger because he was bigger, I assume Terrell must have been Wlad's size? Like around 250 lbs or something? I assume his KO ratio was around Wlads so in the 80% range, not some lowly 38% or something like that right?

Wlad Klitschko
08-16-2010, 02:19 PM
Who cares.

I do, I was curious who people on here thought was stronger, not saying who would be a better boxer or who would win, but who was the stronger guy.

CarlosG815
08-16-2010, 02:20 PM
Who is Terrell? Sorry, I only became a fan a few years ago. How long was he a HW champion for? Was he as big as Wlad, since you say Wlad was stronger because he was bigger, I assume Terrell must have been Wlad's size? Like around 250 lbs or something? I assume his KO ratio was around Wlads so in the 80% range, not some lowly 38% or something like that right?

You aren't fooling anybody. You're probably from Europe and you have been a fan for a week.

BattlingNelson
08-16-2010, 02:21 PM
And by strength i mean punching power and just lifting type strength, who would have more strength in the clinch, or if you put them in a gym who would lift more.
Probably Wlad.

In the gut department Ali was much stronger though as well as he was in speed, footwork, skills, punchresistance etc.

Wlad Klitschko
08-16-2010, 02:24 PM
You aren't fooling anybody. You're probably from Europe and you have been a fan for a week.

Huh, I just wanted to know a little bit more about this Terrell guy? I am sorry. English is second language, so I get a bit confused. Is he a ton like Wlad? 6'6 245 lbs all muscle, hw champ for over half a decade, huge power, etc...? I just never have heard him of much.

Wlad Klitschko
08-16-2010, 02:28 PM
Probably Wlad.

In the gut department Ali was much stronger though as well as he was in speed, footwork, skills, punchresistance etc.

Skills and punch resistance I do not know? In terms of not being hit in the face and being able to keep opponents away, you have to go with Wlad? Is that not a skill? Also which Ali are we talking about, because Cassius Clay did not take a punch very good. His staggering to his corner after the Cooper his would have been stopped and called a loss, and that was a 185 lbs guy. A very similar thing happened to Wlad...staggering to a corner after being knocked down. So if you go with punch resistance you must be talking about post suspension Ali, therefore his skills were nowhere near that of Wlads, because he couldnt stop being pummelled to the face and he lost a ton of rounds where as Wlad now never loses rounds.

Also gut department? Wlad has never quit, always gotten up. He has never finished a match on the canvas,but rather has only lost by the ref calling it. So I dont know where you question Wlad's guts.

Thats not the topic though. Can you not admit that Wlad is stronger without trying to disparage him?

GJC
08-16-2010, 02:33 PM
And by strength i mean punching power and just lifting type strength, who would have more strength in the clinch, or if you put them in a gym who would lift more.
Golly there's a question, maybe as thread starter you should go first whats your view?
Incidently welcome to boxing scene how are you find things on here being "new"?

krazyn8tive
08-16-2010, 02:36 PM
Wlad is probably one of the strongest guys, in term of overall strenghth, in boxing history. Tyson was likely the strongest.

Wlad Klitschko
08-16-2010, 02:41 PM
I think Wlad is much stronger than Ali ever was. I think the best Ali was before lay off where he was more a cruiser than a true heavyweight. I am not fool, I have boxed before and I know strength isnt everything, but after reading on here while i noticed that people disparage Klitschkos quite a bit and was curious if they even doubt his strength. He is so strong. Ali look like mouse to Klitschko. Ali liked to clinch in his later days and if he clinched Klitschko, Wlad would wrestle Ali and put his weight on him. Ali loved putting his weight on other fighters, holding their heads down etc...He not do that to wlad. Especially later Ali, the one who beat Foreman, would be at severe disadvantage agaist prime Wlad, but people act like Wlad have no chance? Wlad is champion. Wlad is great champion. But on strength alone to me it is not a question, but if people debate that Ali is stronger it shows there is no hope for debate or for people to take Wlad serious as he is.

musiol
08-16-2010, 02:44 PM
Skills and punch resistance I do not know? In terms of not being hit in the face and being able to keep opponents away, you have to go with Wlad? Is that not a skill? Also which Ali are we talking about, because Cassius Clay did not take a punch very good. His staggering to his corner after the Cooper his would have been stopped and called a loss, and that was a 185 lbs guy. A very similar thing happened to Wlad...staggering to a corner after being knocked down. So if you go with punch resistance you must be talking about post suspension Ali, therefore his skills were nowhere near that of Wlads, because he couldnt stop being pummelled to the face and he lost a ton of rounds where as Wlad now never loses rounds.

Also gut department? Wlad has never quit, always gotten up. He has never finished a match on the canvas,but rather has only lost by the ref calling it. So I dont know where you question Wlad's guts.

Thats not the topic though. Can you not admit that Wlad is stronger without trying to disparage him?
ali has miles better punch resistance to wlad,alis skills are way better than wlads your on acid man,wlad wins more rounds because he fights in the worst heavyweight era ever

Wlad Klitschko
08-16-2010, 02:53 PM
ali has miles better punch resistance to wlad,alis skills are way better than wlads your on acid man,wlad wins more rounds because he fights in the worst heavyweight era ever

If Ali always had better punch resistance how does 185 lbs little man knock him down and hurt him. Wlad never get hurt by 185 lbs little man? Also, Wlad does not get punched in face by mid level fighters. Wlad does not get hit. Eddie Chambers is much better than many of Ali's opponents. Wlad beat him without getting hit. Opinions are not facts. To say todays heavyweight division is the worst is an opinion. To say Ali's skills are better is opinion. However, opinions should be backed up with a fact. I say Ali did not take punch well because 185 lbs little man hurt him. I say Ali's not as skilled because he developed brain damage blocking punches with his face. He also never threw a body shot. It would take body shots to beat wlad. I say Wlad always got up so its hard to question his gut. Did he punch himself out at times sure? Did Sanders hurt him? Of course, but Wlad never quit. He always got up.

I want to know more abotu Terrell and how he stacks up in comparison to Wlad in terms of weight and KO%.

BattlingNelson
08-16-2010, 02:54 PM
Skills and punch resistance I do not know? In terms of not being hit in the face and being able to keep opponents away, you have to go with Wlad? Is that not a skill? Also which Ali are we talking about, because Cassius Clay did not take a punch very good. His staggering to his corner after the Cooper his would have been stopped and called a loss, and that was a 185 lbs guy. A very similar thing happened to Wlad...staggering to a corner after being knocked down. So if you go with punch resistance you must be talking about post suspension Ali, therefore his skills were nowhere near that of Wlads, because he couldnt stop being pummelled to the face and he lost a ton of rounds where as Wlad now never loses rounds.

Also gut department? Wlad has never quit, always gotten up. He has never finished a match on the canvas,but rather has only lost by the ref calling it. So I dont know where you question Wlad's guts.

Thats not the topic though. Can you not admit that Wlad is stronger without trying to disparage him?
I did say that Wlad was stronger didn't I?

In terms of punchresitance the Ali that was up at 4 after absorbing one of the greatest left hooks ever thrown is quite amazing. Had that Frazier hook landed on Wlads chin I'd fear for his life.

Guts: Well Wlad's got guts alright, but nobody beats Ali inside or outside the ring there.

Wlad Klitschko
08-16-2010, 02:59 PM
I did say that Wlad was stronger didn't I?

In terms of punchresitance the Ali that was up at 4 after absorbing one of the greatest left hooks ever thrown is quite amazing. Had that Frazier hook landed on Wlads chin I'd fear for his life.

Guts: Well Wlad's got guts alright, but nobody beats Ali inside or outside the ring there.

Outside ring? Ali afraid to go to war. To fight for country. I guess you do not know the Klitschko's well. Either one would give their life for their country. Ali surrounded himself with members of terrorist group and cheat on his wife. Wlad does not do that. Wlad is noble. Ali was not noble. Ali was cheat. It does not take guts to cheat on wife.

Again, Ali punch resistance improved throughout his career I do not deny. But his skills and speed diminished. People make mistake of combining old and young ali into some super fighter, which he never was. It would be like combinign wlad and vitali. Wlad with Vitali's chin and toughness would be the perfect fighter, but that not real.

BattlingNelson
08-16-2010, 03:07 PM
Outside ring? Ali afraid to go to war. To fight for country. I guess you do not know the Klitschko's well. Either one would give their life for their country. Ali surrounded himself with members of terrorist group and cheat on his wife. Wlad does not do that. Wlad is noble. Ali was not noble. Ali was cheat. It does not take guts to cheat on wife.

Again, Ali punch resistance improved throughout his career I do not deny. But his skills and speed diminished. People make mistake of combining old and young ali into some super fighter, which he never was. It would be like combinign wlad and vitali. Wlad with Vitali's chin and toughness would be the perfect fighter, but that not real.
I dont think you are aware of the political climate in the US in the 60ies and the risk Ali was taking both in regards to his job, his family and to his life.

Wlad Klitschko
08-16-2010, 03:14 PM
I dont think you are aware of the political climate in the US in the 60ies and the risk Ali was taking both in regards to his job, his family and to his life.

Ali take no risk. He walk around with killers and terrorists. Ali also fought majority of fights againt men who lost during that year. That is not brave. That is not guts. Why fight Frazier 3rd time? Frazier already over hill and exposed. Ali fight Frazier and admit because he thought it be easy. Why fight guy with 6 wins when champion? Cause no gut. Wlad takes on anyone who he can. No one fight him because he is scared. No one was scared to fight Ali.

sonnyboyx2
08-16-2010, 03:15 PM
And by strength i mean punching power and just lifting type strength, who would have more strength in the clinch, or if you put them in a gym who would lift more.

Ali would have the most strength but Klitschko when he takes his roids

BattlingNelson
08-16-2010, 03:16 PM
Ali take no risk. He walk around with killers and terrorists. Ali also fought majority of fights againt men who lost during that year. That is not brave. That is not guts. Why fight Frazier 3rd time? Frazier already over hill and exposed. Ali fight Frazier and admit because he thought it be easy. Why fight guy with 6 wins when champion? Cause no gut. Wlad takes on anyone who he can. No one fight him because he is scared. No one was scared to fight Ali.
I will not debate on this low level.

Steak
08-16-2010, 03:24 PM
In a hypothetical Wlad-Ali matchup, I doubt there would be any clinches. Wlad and Ali only clinch when someone is trying to fight on the inside...neither of them would fight that way against one another.

Oh yes but Wlad is the stronger guy I would imagine, at least upper body.

Ali's best was around the time he got banned from boxing...around the Cleveland Williams fight. He had the best combination of punch resistance, speed, and overall ring experience.

Wlad Klitschko
08-16-2010, 03:38 PM
I will not debate on this low level.

What is low level? What is untrue. Did his groups not support terrorism and violence. Did he not employ many bodyguards. Your Robert E. Lee for example did not believe in slavery or the civil war, but still fought because his countrymen fought. That is courage. Ali, not courageous. Did he not cheat on wife and fight man who had 6 wins? Did he refuse to give rematches to doug jones, young, and shavers, but yet demanded them from Nortan and Frazier?

Wlad is good man. Patriot. Please do not compare him out of ring to Ali.

#1Assassin
08-16-2010, 03:40 PM
obviously wlad was stronger, ali was the far superior fighter though.

tyger
08-16-2010, 03:42 PM
Stronger like who could lift more weights or who could take a punch better?

tyger
08-16-2010, 03:45 PM
I don't know why people are comparing Klitschko to Ali so much anyways. It's not fair to Klitschko because Ali was in a completely different class.

Wlad Klitschko
08-16-2010, 03:50 PM
obviously wlad was stronger, ali was the far superior fighter though.

You say oh Ali far superior at fighter, but no evidence. Record not better. Size not better. Not as strong. Much smaller man. Many more wars. Never a champ like wlad where people refuse to fight him. Everyone wanted to fight Ali. No one will fight Wlad.

Wlad Klitschko
08-16-2010, 03:52 PM
I don't know why people are comparing Klitschko to Ali so much anyways. It's not fair to Klitschko because Ali was in a completely different class.

What class was that? Do you mean Ali was more of a cruiser weight? If so I agree. we should compare Ali to likes of Haye and Adamek. Not to heavyweight champion like wlad. Ali not big enough to fight a man like Wlad. Ali get knocked down by tiny little men.

Let me guess. You think Ali has better chin than Vitali. People worship Ali like god, but he not god.

musiol
08-16-2010, 03:58 PM
You say oh Ali far superior at fighter, but no evidence. Record not better. Size not better. Not as strong. Much smaller man. Many more wars. Never a champ like wlad where people refuse to fight him. Everyone wanted to fight Ali. No one will fight Wlad.

your ****ing stupid man and clearly joined the wrong site you and STEELHAMMER who is another poster on this site will get on well.RECORD not better lolololol much smaller man so **** thats how he was born lol more wars because wlad cant have a war he gets sparked lol:purity::killyou::boxing:

boxing boy
08-16-2010, 04:05 PM
If Ali always had better punch resistance how does 185 lbs little man knock him down and hurt him. Wlad never get hurt by 185 lbs little man? Also, Wlad does not get punched in face by mid level fighters. Wlad does not get hit. Eddie Chambers is much better than many of Ali's opponents. Wlad beat him without getting hit. Opinions are not facts. To say todays heavyweight division is the worst is an opinion. To say Ali's skills are better is opinion. However, opinions should be backed up with a fact. I say Ali did not take punch well because 185 lbs little man hurt him. I say Ali's not as skilled because he developed brain damage blocking punches with his face. He also never threw a body shot. It would take body shots to beat wlad. I say Wlad always got up so its hard to question his gut. Did he punch himself out at times sure? Did Sanders hurt him? Of course, but Wlad never quit. He always got up.

I want to know more abotu Terrell and how he stacks up in comparison to Wlad in terms of weight and KO%.

I just want to talk about one thing you keep talking about.Cassius Clay got knocked down by Cooper in 1963 early in his career with only 18 pro fights.Clay was 4 years "before" his Prime of 1967 when he was Muhammad Ali.

Yes,Clay beat Sonny Liston 3 years before his prime.He was that good! Muhammad Ali was 29-0-23 KO's with 9 title defenses in 1967.A much better fighter and a much better chin than 4 years before in 1963.

What part of that don't you understand? I have told you this about 5 times,and you have never had an answer? Your almost as bad as TheMagicMan,Lol

Wlad Klitschko
08-16-2010, 04:25 PM
I just want to talk about one thing you keep talking about.Cassius Clay got knocked down by Cooper in 1963 early in his career with only 18 pro fights.Clay was 4 years "before" his Prime of 1967 when he was Muhammad Ali.

Yes,Clay beat Sonny Liston 3 years before his prime.He was that good! Muhammad Ali was 29-0-23 KO's with 9 title defenses in 1967.A much better fighter and a much better chin than 4 years before in 1963.

What part of that don't you understand? I have told you this about 5 times,and you have never had an answer? Your almost as bad as TheMagicMan,Lol

Ok, Wlad is now in his prime, in his prime starting in 2005, he is 11-0 Late 20's, found the right trainer, matured into his body etc... he had 9 KO's and 2 UD's. 5 of the fighters were undefeated. Only one had over 3 losses. Clearly in his prime Wlad is the best ever by your "prime" rules. And these werent the bums, including a police chief, that Ali was fighting. These were all top 10 ranked heavies. Oh and 9 title defenses as well. The numbers you cite for Ali were against bums. Look at Calzaghes first 22 fights. 22-0 21 knock outs. I guess that makes him a great puncher?

Wlad in his prime has only been knocked down in one fight. And those were more pushes and rabbit punches.

In Ali's "prime" he fought only one undefeated fighter. A guy who went on to lose a ton and was also 189 lbs. 8 out of the 29 wins came against guys with double digit losses. 2 more came against guys with only 1 win. How you count guys with one win? How count Cleaveland Williams. He shot? He lose 8 times after being shot. Once good, after no good.

Prime is all relative, this not right forum for me I think. I use facts and not blinded by nostalgia. Maybe the main forum better.

turdleburgle
08-16-2010, 04:25 PM
looks like themagicman is back and lol at him pretending to be european.I must break you lol.

frankenfrank
08-16-2010, 04:41 PM
What is low level? What is untrue. Did his groups not support terrorism and violence. Did he not employ many bodyguards. Your Robert E. Lee for example did not believe in slavery or the civil war, but still fought because his countrymen fought. That is courage. Ali, not courageous. Did he not cheat on wife and fight man who had 6 wins? Did he refuse to give rematches to doug jones, young, and shavers, but yet demanded them from Nortan and Frazier?

Wlad is good man. Patriot. Please do not compare him out of ring to Ali.

He also did not rematch Foreman , whom he needed the 20-24 ft ring's ropes dressed on a 16 ft ring in order to evade and absorb punches better in order to tire an aggressive Foreman that would have beaten him under legitimate circumstances.
Just watch the Ali-Foreman fight (its 8 rounds are on youtube) and get what I'm saying : Ali "won" because of the ropes.

frankenfrank
08-16-2010, 04:44 PM
You say oh Ali far superior at fighter, but no evidence. Record not better. Size not better. Not as strong. Much smaller man. Many more wars. Never a champ like wlad where people refuse to fight him. Everyone wanted to fight Ali. No one will fight Wlad.

I doubt if Arreola would refuse to face Wlad.

musiol
08-16-2010, 04:46 PM
amazing crap has been spoken on this thread franken frank had to get involved cause he hates ali,how anyone can agree with thread starter is beyond me his posts make wlad sound like the ultimate machine warrior

BattlingNelson
08-16-2010, 05:12 PM
How many HOF'ers have Wlad beaten?

boxing boy
08-16-2010, 05:14 PM
Ok, Wlad is now in his prime, in his prime starting in 2005, he is 11-0 Late 20's, found the right trainer, matured into his body etc... he had 9 KO's and 2 UD's. 5 of the fighters were undefeated. Only one had over 3 losses. Clearly in his prime Wlad is the best ever by your "prime" rules. And these werent the bums, including a police chief, that Ali was fighting. These were all top 10 ranked heavies. Oh and 9 title defenses as well. The numbers you cite for Ali were against bums. Look at Calzaghes first 22 fights. 22-0 21 knock outs. I guess that makes him a great puncher?

Wlad in his prime has only been knocked down in one fight. And those were more pushes and rabbit punches.

In Ali's "prime" he fought only one undefeated fighter. A guy who went on to lose a ton and was also 189 lbs. 8 out of the 29 wins came against guys with double digit losses. 2 more came against guys with only 1 win. How you count guys with one win? How count Cleaveland Williams. He shot? He lose 8 times after being shot. Once good, after no good.

Prime is all relative, this not right forum for me I think. I use facts and not blinded by nostalgia. Maybe the main forum better.

Muhammad Ali beat Foreman(KO) and Frazier 2 out of 3 times AFTER his 3 1/2 year lay-off.Can you imagine what he would do to them in his prime?

That shoots down your theory again MagicJack,Lol:baby:

One more round
08-16-2010, 05:31 PM
Wlad is a bigger man who has trained more with weights, he would be stronger than Ali.

Not that being stronger would stop Ali from beating him up though.

SBleeder
08-16-2010, 05:38 PM
Did you guys hear that Wlad Klitschko was confirmed to be a homosexual?

frankenfrank
08-16-2010, 05:48 PM
How many HOF'ers have Wlad beaten?

You know the number of HOFers grows over time.
Someday , Chris Byrd and Sam Peter are gonna be there , you know .
Maybe even Eddie Chambers.
Peter and Chambers are not done yet with their careers , at least not Peter.
But what does it matter ? Roy Jones will be HOFer , but should beating him at HW or CW , or well beyond his best days count ?

Counting HOFers on a fighter's resume/winning resume is much worse than boxrecing.

frankenfrank
08-16-2010, 05:52 PM
Muhammad Ali beat Foreman(KO) and Frazier 2 out of 3 times AFTER his 3 1/2 year lay-off.Can you imagine what he would do to them in his prime?

That shoots down your theory again MagicJack,Lol:baby:

Requesting a 16 ft ring is not chating.
What about the 3 facts :
1) The unfit ropes in Zaire helped Ali to both evade and absorb Foreman's punches.
2) Ali never beat Foreman under legitimate conditions
3) Ali never rematched Foreman despite he fought plenty of men twice or more.

Roger Yomama
08-16-2010, 05:53 PM
You know the number of HOFers grows over time.
Someday , Chris Byrd and Sam Peter are gonna be there , you know .
Maybe even Eddie Chambers.
Peter and Chambers are not done yet with their careers , at least not Peter.
But what does it matter ? Roy Jones will be HOFer , but should beating him at HW or CW , or well beyond his best days count ?

Counting HOFers on a fighter's resume/winning resume is much worse than boxrecing.


Based on what? Seriously. What have they done that even deserves nomination?

Steak
08-16-2010, 06:05 PM
Ok, Wlad is now in his prime, in his prime starting in 2005, he is 11-0 Late 20's, found the right trainer, matured into his body etc... he had 9 KO's and 2 UD's. 5 of the fighters were undefeated. Only one had over 3 losses. Clearly in his prime Wlad is the best ever by your "prime" rules. And these werent the bums, including a police chief, that Ali was fighting. These were all top 10 ranked heavies. Oh and 9 title defenses as well. The numbers you cite for Ali were against bums. Look at Calzaghes first 22 fights. 22-0 21 knock outs. I guess that makes him a great puncher?

Wlad in his prime has only been knocked down in one fight. And those were more pushes and rabbit punches.

In Ali's "prime" he fought only one undefeated fighter. A guy who went on to lose a ton and was also 189 lbs. 8 out of the 29 wins came against guys with double digit losses. 2 more came against guys with only 1 win. How you count guys with one win? How count Cleaveland Williams. He shot? He lose 8 times after being shot. Once good, after no good.

Prime is all relative, this not right forum for me I think. I use facts and not blinded by nostalgia. Maybe the main forum better.
I didnt think I had to do this, but I guess here it goes...
Ali beat....

Floyd Patterson, former Heavyweight champion
Sonny Liston, former Heavyweight champion
Joe Frazier, former Heavyweigth champion
George Foreman, current Heavyweight champion and who again became Heavyweight champion when he was 45 years old
Ken Norton, who had a very close fight with Holmes, who ruled the division for the next NINE years
Earnie Shavers, widely considered the hardest puncher of all time

note that everytime I say 'Heavyweight champion', its the lineal, undisputed HW champion Im talking here, not an alphabet belt holder. I give Wladimir a lot of respect as a very talented fighter, but the fact of the matter is he has never become the lineal champion in his division, and that his best win to date is still Chris Byrd.

And Ali getting knocked down by Bert Cooper at 21 is less embarressing than Wladimir Klitschko getting TKOed by Ross Purity at 22.

JAB5239
08-16-2010, 06:14 PM
He also did not rematch Foreman , whom he needed the 20-24 ft ring's ropes dressed on a 16 ft ring in order to evade and absorb punches better in order to tire an aggressive Foreman that would have beaten him under legitimate circumstances.
Just watch the Ali-Foreman fight (its 8 rounds are on youtube) and get what I'm saying : Ali "won" because of the ropes.

Have you ever boxed or set up a boxing ring for an event? If 20 to 24 foot ropes were put on a 16 foot ring they'd be sagging nearly to the apron. How little you actually know about this sport becomes more clear everyday.

Steak
08-16-2010, 06:15 PM
Based on what? Seriously. What have they done that even deserves nomination?
Chris Byrd is the only one who has any sort of chance of being HOF, simply because he was a blown up light heavyweight/Cruiserweight doing well at HW and has that 'TKO win' over Vitali. He also became a title holder later on. probably the only true, non-controversial good win he ever had is David Tua and an old man Holyfield.
considering he got a gift against Fres Oquendo, struggled with McCline and drew with an older Golota is pretty bad though.

Lamon Brewster has a better chance of getting in the HOF than Sam Peter and Eddie Chambers, and even then...he has about as much chance of getting in as Hasim Rahman

JAB5239
08-16-2010, 06:16 PM
This is clearly a troll thread.

SBleeder
08-16-2010, 07:52 PM
Chris Byrd is the only one who has any sort of chance of being HOF, simply because he was a blown up light heavyweight/Cruiserweight doing well at HW and has that 'TKO win' over Vitali. He also became a title holder later on. probably the only true, non-controversial good win he ever had is David Tua and an old man Holyfield.
considering he got a gift against Fres Oquendo, struggled with McCline and drew with an older Golota is pretty bad though.

Lamon Brewster has a better chance of getting in the HOF than Sam Peter and Eddie Chambers, and even then...he has about as much chance of getting in as Hasim Rahman

Are you trying to say The Rock shouldn't be a first ballot shoe-in?

BillyBoxing
08-16-2010, 07:59 PM
Probably Klitschko because he is bigger?

But fights are not won by how much you can bench.

Ali would spank Klitschko for 15 rounds like he did Terrel.

Don't think Klit is as bad as Terrel,that guy Terrell didn't have the power,skills Klits has...

Steak
08-16-2010, 08:31 PM
Are you trying to say The Rock shouldn't be a first ballot shoe-in?
that is correct.

Why would Rahman get in? his claim to fame is upsetting Lewis(good job) and beating Corrie Sanders(gutsy performance).
how that is hall of fame is beyond me

NECK SNAPPER
08-16-2010, 08:53 PM
boxing has alot to do with strenth.but strenth of the chin we all know ali
had the chin to win wlad has shown more than once he didnt.in a curling
contest wlad by a mile.boxing strenth ali by ko.he beat big george in his prime.
and george was a monster.

lolivivi
08-17-2010, 03:16 AM
I will prefer punching power . Because punching power can get the maximum power play.

Biffen
08-17-2010, 05:45 AM
Ofcurse Wlad would lift more weight in a gym, everyone can see that. But if your gonna rank fighters by that kind of strenght then primo canera would be the strongest champion ever, right?

Vadrigar.
08-17-2010, 06:18 AM
This is clearly a troll thread.

Jab I agree with this. It was a bait thread disguised with a seemingly innocent question, but the troll showed his true intentions in the thread. Ali haters like "frankenfrank" have blindly taken the bait and I believe "Wlad Klitschko" is the ALT of knn/magicman.

GJC
08-17-2010, 08:37 AM
Ok, Wlad is now in his prime, in his prime starting in 2005

Sure his prime didn't start on the 11th April 2004 after 8 years and 45 fights? :)

Vadrigar.
08-17-2010, 08:38 AM
Sure his prime didn't start on the 11th April 2004 after 8 years and 45 fights? :)

There you go, Wlad knocked out three times in his prime :lol1:

Ziggy Stardust
08-17-2010, 10:01 AM
Jab I agree with this. It was a bait thread disguised with a seemingly innocent question, but the troll showed his true intentions in the thread. Ali haters like "frankenfrank" have blindly taken the bait and I believe "Wlad Klitschko" is the ALT of knn/magicman.

Beat me to it lol! Yeah, this is a clear alt.

Poet

them_apples
08-17-2010, 10:03 AM
And by strength i mean punching power and just lifting type strength, who would have more strength in the clinch, or if you put them in a gym who would lift more.

The K bro is. The K bros are strong no doubt about that. I wouldn't bank on a huge strength difference though. They are taller, that's about it.

GJC
08-17-2010, 10:10 AM
Beat me to it lol! Yeah, this is a clear alt.

Poet

I particularily enjoy the erraticly differing standard of English.
Sometimes haltingly trying to find the right words but then when he gets warmed up on his theme he sounds like David Niven.
Nice touch that :)

Tyson.
08-17-2010, 10:22 AM
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Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 10:39 AM
I particularily enjoy the erraticly differing standard of English.
Sometimes haltingly trying to find the right words but then when he gets warmed up on his theme he sounds like David Niven.
Nice touch that :)

No need to make fun of my English. I say it is second language. What other languages do you speek? And bert sugar just old man. Also slave to nostalgia like most on this forum. I do not come to insult individuals and I am not an alt as you say. I am simple fan on Wlad Klitschko. He is my favorite fighter and best ever heavyweight. He is knock out master and brilliant man. Why compare Wlad out of ring to Ali? Ali is not a noble man like Wlad. Ali is not a smart man like Wlad. Ali turn his back on his country, on his religion, on his wife. Wlad never turn his back. Wlad is not selfish like Ali. Please do not compare Wlad to this man. Do not disparage Wlad. He is a good man.

In the ring right now he cannot be defeat. He win against anyone. He more dominant than Ali ever was. His strength is much larger than Ali, that is not debatable but some say, "ali just as strong." Ali not just as strong as wlad.

You wish me away so I go. No need for insults or accusations. I not insult any of you. I merely try to discuss rationally. Why say Ali beat Foreman. I watch fight. Foreman up at count of 8, why he counted out? That is not win. Wlad nothing liek Foremna either. he is intelligent and uses his jab more effectively and since entering his prime he doesnt punch himself out.

You all love Ali. That is fine, but you are blinded by it and a slave to it and it prohibits you from loving true champion and great man Wlad Klitschko.

GJC
08-17-2010, 10:51 AM
No need to make fun of my English. I say it is second language. What other languages do you speek? And bert sugar just old man. Also slave to nostalgia like most on this forum. I do not come to insult individuals and I am not an alt as you say. I am simple fan on Wlad Klitschko. He is my favorite fighter and best ever heavyweight. He is knock out master and brilliant man. Why compare Wlad out of ring to Ali? Ali is not a noble man like Wlad. Ali is not a smart man like Wlad. Ali turn his back on his country, on his religion, on his wife. Wlad never turn his back. Wlad is not selfish like Ali. Please do not compare Wlad to this man. Do not disparage Wlad. He is a good man.

In the ring right now he cannot be defeat. He win against anyone. He more dominant than Ali ever was. His strength is much larger than Ali, that is not debatable but some say, "ali just as strong." Ali not just as strong as wlad.

You wish me away so I go. No need for insults or accusations. I not insult any of you. I merely try to discuss rationally. Why say Ali beat Foreman. I watch fight. Foreman up at count of 8, why he counted out? That is not win. Wlad nothing liek Foremna either. he is intelligent and uses his jab more effectively and since entering his prime he doesnt punch himself out.

You all love Ali. That is fine, but you are blinded by it and a slave to it and it prohibits you from loving true champion and great man Wlad Klitschko.
I would never make fun of someone using their second language only someone pretending to use a second language to disguise their identity

musiol
08-17-2010, 11:07 AM
No need to make fun of my English. I say it is second language. What other languages do you speek? And bert sugar just old man. Also slave to nostalgia like most on this forum. I do not come to insult individuals and I am not an alt as you say. I am simple fan on Wlad Klitschko. He is my favorite fighter and best ever heavyweight. He is knock out master and brilliant man. Why compare Wlad out of ring to Ali? Ali is not a noble man like Wlad. Ali is not a smart man like Wlad. Ali turn his back on his country, on his religion, on his wife. Wlad never turn his back. Wlad is not selfish like Ali. Please do not compare Wlad to this man. Do not disparage Wlad. He is a good man.

In the ring right now he cannot be defeat. He win against anyone. He more dominant than Ali ever was. His strength is much larger than Ali, that is not debatable but some say, "ali just as strong." Ali not just as strong as wlad.

You wish me away so I go. No need for insults or accusations. I not insult any of you. I merely try to discuss rationally. Why say Ali beat Foreman. I watch fight. Foreman up at count of 8, why he counted out? That is not win. Wlad nothing liek Foremna either. he is intelligent and uses his jab more effectively and since entering his prime he doesnt punch himself out.

You all love Ali. That is fine, but you are blinded by it and a slave to it and it prohibits you from loving true champion and great man Wlad Klitschko.

look your clearly intellegent the way you right your posts but you have talked nonsense on this thread not everyone loves ali theie just saying wlad would get whoooptby him my man holyfield would also kick his ***** ass

GoogleMe
08-17-2010, 11:14 AM
Wladimir Klitschko is stronger then most HW's in history.

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 11:32 AM
look your clearly intellegent the way you right your posts but you have talked nonsense on this thread not everyone loves ali theie just saying wlad would get whoooptby him my man holyfield would also kick his ***** ass

Holyfield is a very good man. I like Holyfield. I think Holyfield beats Ali 9 out of 10 times. Aly used mind games and clinches to beat men like Holyfield. Holyfield would headbutt ali in the clinch, Holyfield also stronger than Ali and not intimidated by anyone. Holy would take all Ali had to offer and deal out more punishment. Holyfield cannot beat wlad though. Wlad would keep Holy awayw ith his jab and not offer holyfield chance to hit him in face. Holyfield give tough fight though and Wlad at times might look like chicken backing away, but Wlad would hold Holy off and challenge his stamina. Holyfield would never back down or allow himself to be held like Joe Frazier. He is smarter than young Foreman and more of a warrior. Alis games would not work on Holyfield. However, Wlad was not about games or intimidation. Wlad is about punching in the face and not being punched.

NChristo
08-17-2010, 11:49 AM
but Wlad would hold Holy off and challenge his stamina. .

Ignoring your obvious hate for Ali and Klitschko nut hugging, do you really think that Holyfield would be the one was getting his stamina "challenged", I mean come on Wlad is notorious for gassing early which is why he has to pace himself and Holyfield is able to keep up a decent pace all fight.

He is smarter than young Foreman and more of a warrior.

More of a warrior then a young Foreman ?, I've heard it all.

Go to NSB and do your nut hugging there.

GJC
08-17-2010, 11:49 AM
Love the innocent abroad act:
We have someone who deliberately forgets A's mixes up tenses as in this post:
I say it is second language. And bert sugar just old man. In the ring right now he cannot be defeat.

At other times we have good use of slang or certainly words not naturally used by someone for who English is a second language:

because he couldnt stop being pummelled to the face and he lost a ton of rounds


I want to know more abotu Terrell and how he stacks up in comparison to Wlad in terms of weight and KO%.

Reminds me of an actor doing a bad foreign accent, maybe Laurence Olivier in The Marathon Man?

And the complete innocence of this post:
Who is Terrell? Sorry, I only became a fan a few years ago. How long was he a HW champion for? Was he as big as Wlad, since you say Wlad was stronger because he was bigger, I assume Terrell must have been Wlad's size? Like around 250 lbs or something? I assume his KO ratio was around Wlads so in the 80% range, not some lowly 38% or something like that right?

But gets Terrell's KO% exactly right, or at least after ignoring the too obvious .18.

Cute but moronic try

musiol
08-17-2010, 11:56 AM
No need to make fun of my English. I say it is second language. What other languages do you speek? And bert sugar just old man. Also slave to nostalgia like most on this forum. I do not come to insult individuals and I am not an alt as you say. I am simple fan on Wlad Klitschko. He is my favorite fighter and best ever heavyweight. He is knock out master and brilliant man. Why compare Wlad out of ring to Ali? Ali is not a noble man like Wlad. Ali is not a smart man like Wlad. Ali turn his back on his country, on his religion, on his wife. Wlad never turn his back. Wlad is not selfish like Ali. Please do not compare Wlad to this man. Do not disparage Wlad. He is a good man.

In the ring right now he cannot be defeat. He win against anyone. He more dominant than Ali ever was. His strength is much larger than Ali, that is not debatable but some say, "ali just as strong." Ali not just as strong as wlad.

You wish me away so I go. No need for insults or accusations. I not insult any of you. I merely try to discuss rationally. Why say Ali beat Foreman. I watch fight. Foreman up at count of 8, why he counted out? That is not win. Wlad nothing liek Foremna either. he is intelligent and uses his jab more effectively and since entering his prime he doesnt punch himself out.

You all love Ali. That is fine, but you are blinded by it and a slave to it and it prohibits you from loving true champion and great man Wlad Klitschko.

Holyfield is a very good man. I like Holyfield. I think Holyfield beats Ali 9 out of 10 times. Aly used mind games and clinches to beat men like Holyfield. Holyfield would headbutt ali in the clinch, Holyfield also stronger than Ali and not intimidated by anyone. Holy would take all Ali had to offer and deal out more punishment. Holyfield cannot beat wlad though. Wlad would keep Holy awayw ith his jab and not offer holyfield chance to hit him in face. Holyfield give tough fight though and Wlad at times might look like chicken backing away, but Wlad would hold Holy off and challenge his stamina. Holyfield would never back down or allow himself to be held like Joe Frazier. He is smarter than young Foreman and more of a warrior. Alis games would not work on Holyfield. However, Wlad was not about games or intimidation. Wlad is about punching in the face and not being punched.

this has been done on other threads to keep it short a think ali beats holyfield yes i can admit things like this unlike you lol holyfield outworks and batters a weary wlad to the ground in 9rounnds wlad will have a few moments in the first half of the fight as holyfield always tends to let his opponents get these

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 12:14 PM
this has been done on other threads to keep it short a think ali beats holyfield yes i can admit things like this unlike you lol holyfield outworks and batters a weary wlad to the ground in 9rounnds wlad will have a few moments in the first half of the fight as holyfield always tends to let his opponents get these

Holyfield is much more of a warriro than young Foreman. Holyfield is scared of no one and has taken such beatings but keeps coming. I feel young wlad got gassed early. New Wlad spars much longer and hasnt had that issue. He doesnt worry about going late in rounds and he uses his punches wisely. I like Holyfield more than Ali and I think he beats Ali. That is not crime. Its opinion. Why attack an opinion. How would Ali keep Holyfiend away? would he clinch. Number 1 rule of boxing...Do not clinch holyfield.

mrboxer
08-17-2010, 12:16 PM
And by strength i mean punching power and just lifting type strength, who would have more strength in the clinch, or if you put them in a gym who would lift more.no doubt about it wlad is much stronger in terms of strength,he would probably lift twice as much as ali,but that has nothing to do with boxing if wlad fought ali in the ring or on the street wlad would get kayoed[fast]:boxing:

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 12:20 PM
no doubt about it wlad is much stronger in terms of strength,he would probably lift twice as much as ali,but that has nothing to do with boxing if wlad fought ali in the ring or on the street wlad would get kayoed[fast]:boxing:

you think Ali would beat vitali in street fight? Vitali who could kick him in the face. Vitali who dont get knocked down by any man? Vitali would kill Ali in street fight. He has high level martial arts training as well. But you not care. to you Ali god, and Klitschko's just european trash. Open mind to reality

NChristo
08-17-2010, 12:27 PM
you think Ali would beat vitali in street fight? Vitali who could kick him in the face. Vitali who dont get knocked down by any man? Vitali would kill Ali in street fight. He has high level martial arts training as well. But you not care. to you Ali god, and Klitschko's just european trash. Open mind to reality

He clearly said Wlad but I like how you changed it to Vitali who is a proven kick boxer to try and defend your claim.

mrboxer
08-17-2010, 12:29 PM
vitali would be meet with the same result as wlad fast kayo,these 2 guys in alis era would not even be ranked:boxing:

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 12:29 PM
He clearly said Wlad but I like how you changed it to Vitali who is a proven kick boxer to try and defend your claim.

I posed the question to see what his answer would be. There should be no doubt that the 6'8 250 lbs hw champion, 39 year old hw champion, former world kickboxing champion and experienced martial artist Vitali Klitschko would kill Ali in a street fight. If he didnt admit it I would know there would be no point debating him on Wlad vs. Ali. Its hard to convince someone 2>1 if they think 1>3.

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 12:31 PM
vitali would be meet with the same result as wlad fast kayo,these 2 guys in alis era would not even be ranked:boxing:

You base this on nothing. Vitali was never knocked down. Ali would have no chance of KO'ing Vitali. This is why I asked the question about Vitali. Now I know you troll. Make baseless comments like Ali would KO Vitali fast...that is silly. That joke. hahaha. Not funny.

mrboxer
08-17-2010, 12:34 PM
a boxer would not lose a street fight to any so called kung fu masters, :boxing:

GJC
08-17-2010, 12:35 PM
He clearly said Wlad but I like how you changed it to Vitali who is a proven kick boxer to try and defend your claim.

Ali was never a guy you would back in a street fight, Frazier or Marciano would be fun though :)
As for kick boxing fists have less distance to travel than legs so ignoring films kick boxing isn't going to prove any advantage in a street fight.
Why the hell are you still talking to this idiot?

Mikhnienko
08-17-2010, 01:01 PM
I did say that Wlad was stronger didn't I?

In terms of punchresitance the Ali that was up at 4 after absorbing one of the greatest left hooks ever thrown is quite amazing. Had that Frazier hook landed on Wlads chin I'd fear for his life.
Guts: Well Wlad's got guts alright, but nobody beats Ali inside or outside the ring there.

Ignoring everything else do you really believe that Frazier hit harder than Corrie Sanders, even Brewster for that matter?

musiol
08-17-2010, 01:11 PM
Ignoring everything else do you really believe that Frazier hit harder than Corrie Sanders, even Brewster for that matter?

that left hook would of kod wlad no question about it mate

Mikhnienko
08-17-2010, 01:13 PM
that left hook would of kod wlad no question about it mate

So you're saying that Frazier hits harder than Sanders and Brewster? I disagree.

WladIsTheChamp
08-17-2010, 01:16 PM
Skills and punch resistance I do not know? In terms of not being hit in the face and being able to keep opponents away, you have to go with Wlad? Is that not a skill? Also which Ali are we talking about, because Cassius Clay did not take a punch very good. His staggering to his corner after the Cooper his would have been stopped and called a loss, and that was a 185 lbs guy. A very similar thing happened to Wlad...staggering to a corner after being knocked down. So if you go with punch resistance you must be talking about post suspension Ali, therefore his skills were nowhere near that of Wlads, because he couldnt stop being pummelled to the face and he lost a ton of rounds where as Wlad now never loses rounds.

Also gut department? Wlad has never quit, always gotten up. He has never finished a match on the canvas,but rather has only lost by the ref calling it. So I dont know where you question Wlad's guts.

Thats not the topic though. Can you not admit that Wlad is stronger without trying to disparage him?

Nah, they can't admit that Wlad or Vitaly can be better in anything that Ali did, that could stir some serious insecurities for them.

musiol
08-17-2010, 01:16 PM
Ignoring everything else do you really believe that Frazier hit harder than Corrie Sanders, even Brewster for that matter?

You base this on nothing. Vitali was never knocked down. Ali would have no chance of KO'ing Vitali. This is why I asked the question about Vitali. Now I know you troll. Make baseless comments like Ali would KO Vitali fast...that is silly. That joke. hahaha. Not funny.

who can beat wlad please tell me????????????????????????/ out of my era of fighters i have lewis tyson holyfield bowe without doubt beating him and list goes on of the history of heavyweights so many poor fighters would have the chance of beating wlad as wlads record proves if you can bang a bit and have stamina you have a chance

Ziggy Stardust
08-17-2010, 02:10 PM
Wladimir Klitschko is stronger then most HW's in history.

He should invest in a better deodorant then.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
08-17-2010, 02:11 PM
So you're saying that Frazier hits harder than Sanders and Brewster? I disagree.

I'll say flat out that Frazier punches harder than Sanders and Brewster. Size does NOT equal punching power.....this has been proven over and over again.

Poet

Mikhnienko
08-17-2010, 02:26 PM
I'll say flat out that Frazier punches harder than Sanders and Brewster. Size does NOT equal punching power.....this has been proven over and over again.

Poet

I realize and agree with that. I'v actually gone into great detail in some threads regarding that. In this particular case though i'd say that Sanders definitely has better handspeed than Joe along with a 40lb advantage and greater overall strength and punching power. Lamon's handspeed is faster too imo along with strength and power but not by as much as wide a margin as Sanders

Sanders hit as hard as Klychko and Lewis imo. I'm sure you'd try and bring up the Rahman fight to try and argue my opinion but same could be said for Foreman not flooring Ali yet Frazier did.

Or more poignantly does Reggie Johnson hit harder than Peter or Rahman since he floored Toney, obviously not.

BigStereotype
08-17-2010, 02:45 PM
Wlad is four inches taller and thirty-five pounds heavier, so I'll say him. Wlad is a huge man.

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 03:17 PM
who can beat wlad please tell me????????????????????????/ out of my era of fighters i have lewis tyson holyfield bowe without doubt beating him and list goes on of the history of heavyweights so many poor fighters would have the chance of beating wlad as wlads record proves if you can bang a bit and have stamina you have a chance

Wlad's pre prime record. In his prime Wlad is 11-0, 9 ko's, destroyed 5 undefeated fighters, 5 fighters with less than 5 losses. 9 title defenses. Has never been in trouble etc... If you take Ali out of his prime then he is easily beatable, either pre prime Ali where a guy like Chad Dawson probably could floor him (Dawson hits much harder than Cooper, and is much more skilled, and Ali needed smelling salt to stay awake from a one punch knock down) or post prime where a guy with 6 wins beat him. Why does Ali get prime but not Wlad?

Also how do you say Lewis? Lewis got KO'd twice right away? You think he could take a Wlad left hook? What fighter of Wlad's calibur did Tyson beat? Wlad not fear Tyson, keep him away and beat him. Have to be tall to beat Wlad...little men have no chance. Bowe would be too chicken to face Wlad. Holyfield couldnt get inside of that jab and possibly would suffer great injury in the ring.

boxing boy
08-17-2010, 03:17 PM
If Muhammad Ali and Klit fought....I predict Tiiiiiiiiimmmmmmbbbbbbeeeerrrrrr

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 03:25 PM
If Muhammad Ali and Klit fought....I predict Tiiiiiiiiimmmmmmbbbbbbeeeerrrrrr

I agree Ali goes down and so would his legacy. Just look at even his proudest moments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96MYTogoXLc&feature=related

Ali vs. Bonavena. What? Ali didnt have to go to a neutral corner? Why not? Oh yeah, he Ali he doesnt follow rules. I laugh at people who count some of his fights as "wins." Many brainwashed people here.

Steak
08-17-2010, 03:45 PM
Ignoring everything else do you really believe that Frazier hit harder than Corrie Sanders, even Brewster for that matter?
um.

Yes.

I think Corrie was a very big puncher, but he couldnt even put away Rahman.

And Brewster was a very exciting fighter, but still got gifts against Kali Meehan directly after TKOing Wladimir.


and I really dont get how you(I mean Wlad Klitschko guy) can use the Cooper knockdown on Ali when Ali was 21 but totally ignore Purrity's TKO of Wladimir when Wlad was 22.

boxing boy
08-17-2010, 03:48 PM
I agree Ali goes down and so would his legacy. Just look at even his proudest moments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96MYTogoXLc&feature=related

Ali vs. Bonavena. What? Ali didnt have to go to a neutral corner? Why not? Oh yeah, he Ali he doesnt follow rules. I laugh at people who count some of his fights as "wins." Many brainwashed people here.

I thought you said Ali wasn't very tall? So how you say timber?

The Clit brothers are very tall you say.So i say Tiiiiiiimmmmmmmbbbbbbeeerrrr

boxing boy
08-17-2010, 04:10 PM
Joe Frazier brutaly KO's UNDEFEATED 6'3" 243 1/2lbs Buster Mathis.

Then George Foreman brutaly KO's UNDEFEATED Joe Frazier.

Then Muhammad Ali KO's UNDEFEATED unbeatable George Foreman.

Geeeezzzzzzz,how can UNDEFEATED 6'3" 243lb Buster Mathis be on the bottom of the list?

I mean,Mathis was just not big.He could move and dance around the ring.He was an excellent boxer,with good speed.But little Joe Frazier ended his career.He was never the same after getting half killed by Smokin' Joe.So how can this big skillful fighter be at the bottom of the list of these fighters? I thought these big,quick fighters would destroy those little fighters like Foreman,Frazier,and Ali?

Me thinks all four of these fighters whip the clit brothers.:bryce:

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 05:14 PM
Joe Frazier brutaly KO's UNDEFEATED 6'3" 243 1/2lbs Buster Mathis.

Then George Foreman brutaly KO's UNDEFEATED Joe Frazier.

Then Muhammad Ali KO's UNDEFEATED unbeatable George Foreman.

Geeeezzzzzzz,how can UNDEFEATED 6'3" 243lb Buster Mathis be on the bottom of the list?

I mean,Mathis was just not big.He could move and dance around the ring.He was an excellent boxer,with good speed.But little Joe Frazier ended his career.He was never the same after getting half killed by Smokin' Joe.So how can this big skillful fighter be at the bottom of the list of these fighters? I thought these big,quick fighters would destroy those little fighters like Foreman,Frazier,and Ali?

Me thinks all four of these fighters whip the clit brothers.:bryce:


OK boxrec warrior. Buster Mathis dropped down to 220 the same year he fought Frazier. Why? Because he was fat at 240+. He had never gone past 10 rounds before and Frazier outlasted him. Mathis's only other match past 7 rounds was a SD win that many said he lost to Bob Stallings, a 200 pounder whose career record was 31-32. Nice try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRtG6fSpy9w

This is Mathis at 230. Notice how his arms are 1/4th the size of either Wlad or Vitali. Notice how much smaller his legs are. Notice that even at 230 there are rolls above his trunks. Notice his inability to use a jab. Nothing like Wlad and nothin like Vitali.

Keep trying, Im sure a few more trips to boxrec and youll gain some knowledge.

boxing boy
08-17-2010, 05:52 PM
OK boxrec warrior. Buster Mathis dropped down to 220 the same year he fought Frazier. Why? Because he was fat at 240+. He had never gone past 10 rounds before and Frazier outlasted him. Mathis's only other match past 7 rounds was a SD win that many said he lost to Bob Stallings, a 200 pounder whose career record was 31-32. Nice try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRtG6fSpy9w

This is Mathis at 230. Notice how his arms are 1/4th the size of either Wlad or Vitali. Notice how much smaller his legs are. Notice that even at 230 there are rolls above his trunks. Notice his inability to use a jab. Nothing like Wlad and nothin like Vitali.

Keep trying, Im sure a few more trips to boxrec and youll gain some knowledge.

You show how stupid you are with every post.Buster Mathis had to come down from 300lbs to fight you idiot.Look at his amateur career first you moron.You do know he was going to represent the United States in the olympics? But he got hurt.The guy he beat to go to the olympics(Joe Frazier) won a Gold medal!! Mathis would have won that Gold medal if he didn't get hurt.Go find that one in boxrec,Lol When Mathis turned pro he had to DROP WEIGHT to get down to 250lbs.Didn't know that did you? You see,i was following boxing and Ali,Frazier,and Mathis at this time.

I notice that you don't mention that Mathis KO'd 6'9" 244lbs James Beattie,who was 30-4.I notice you don't mention that Mathis KO'd UNDEFEATED 6'4" 260lbs Humphrey McBride who was 25-0.

I told you Mathis was never the same AFTER he got brutally KO'd by Joe Frazier.So there you go looking for fights after he fought Frazier.Lol...You are the boxrec warrior.I'm 53 years old and have been following boxing since i was a little kid,where you have to go to boxrec to get your information.

Keep on posting.Please keep posting.We all get a laugh out of it.Keep showing how stupid you are.Lol

You sound like a body builder,Lol...Look at Wlad's arms.Look at the size etc. etc. You act like this is a body builder's competition,Lol God help this man.He really doesn't know how stupid he sounds.Ok,lets compare there chests,arms,legs etc. etc. Lol,Lol Please keep posting TheMagicMan,please!!

Ziggy Stardust
08-17-2010, 08:00 PM
You show how stupid you are with every post.Buster Mathis had to come down from 300lbs to fight you idiot.Look at his amateur career first you moron.You do know he was going to represent the United States in the olympics? But he got hurt.The guy he beat to go to the olympics(Joe Frazier) won a Gold medal!! Mathis would have won that Gold medal if he didn't get hurt.Go find that one in boxrec,Lol When Mathis turned pro he had to DROP WEIGHT to get down to 250lbs.Didn't know that did you? You see,i was following boxing and Ali,Frazier,and Mathis at this time.

I notice that you don't mention that Mathis KO'd 6'9" 244lbs James Beattie,who was 30-4.I notice you don't mention that Mathis KO'd UNDEFEATED 6'4" 260lbs Humphrey McBride who was 25-0.

I told you Mathis was never the same AFTER he got brutally KO'd by Joe Frazier.So there you go looking for fights after he fought Frazier.Lol...You are the boxrec warrior.I'm 53 years old and have been following boxing since i was a little kid,where you have to go to boxrec to get your information.

Keep on posting.Please keep posting.We all get a laugh out of it.Keep showing how stupid you are.Lol

You sound like a body builder,Lol...Look at Wlad's arms.Look at the size etc. etc. You act like this is a body builder's competition,Lol God help this man.He really doesn't know how stupid he sounds.Ok,lets compare there chests,arms,legs etc. etc. Lol,Lol Please keep posting TheMagicMan,please!!

Don't you just love these Ivan "I Mush Bweak You Weak Amerikans" Drago wannabes? :rofl9:

Poet

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 08:04 PM
You show how stupid you are with every post.Buster Mathis had to come down from 300lbs to fight you idiot.Look at his amateur career first you moron.You do know he was going to represent the United States in the olympics? But he got hurt.The guy he beat to go to the olympics(Joe Frazier) won a Gold medal!! Mathis would have won that Gold medal if he didn't get hurt.Go find that one in boxrec,Lol When Mathis turned pro he had to DROP WEIGHT to get down to 250lbs.Didn't know that did you? You see,i was following boxing and Ali,Frazier,and Mathis at this time.

I notice that you don't mention that Mathis KO'd 6'9" 244lbs James Beattie,who was 30-4.I notice you don't mention that Mathis KO'd UNDEFEATED 6'4" 260lbs Humphrey McBride who was 25-0.

I told you Mathis was never the same AFTER he got brutally KO'd by Joe Frazier.So there you go looking for fights after he fought Frazier.Lol...You are the boxrec warrior.I'm 53 years old and have been following boxing since i was a little kid,where you have to go to boxrec to get your information.

Keep on posting.Please keep posting.We all get a laugh out of it.Keep showing how stupid you are.Lol

You sound like a body builder,Lol...Look at Wlad's arms.Look at the size etc. etc. You act like this is a body builder's competition,Lol God help this man.He really doesn't know how stupid he sounds.Ok,lets compare there chests,arms,legs etc. etc. Lol,Lol Please keep posting TheMagicMan,please!!

I didnt read your post cause youre a boxrec warrior. you failed to explain ever how Mathis had conditioning. What does Mathis beating other fat guys have to do with his conditioning? How many rounds are amateur fights? Uhh...the guy was doing fine against Frazier till he gassed. Again, you try to change the subject, but prior to frazier his only match to go past 7 ended in a SD, that most people felt he robbed a guy who ended his career with a losing record.

So keep fighting the surreal fight. You know those arguments that make no sense. Yeah Mathis came down from a mythical 300, but he got down over 20 lbs lighter after Frazier. He was fat and out of shape, wound up fighting in the same division Butterbean came to dominate...He actually got in better shape after Frazier but coudlnt stop eating. Dude loved to eat. If Wlad got down to 220 he'd lose a ton of muscle. Thats the difference dude. Wlad's 250, is an in shape 250. Hence why Wlad is different that Arreola. Buster Mathis=Chris Arreola. 6'3 fat guys. Big deal. Only difference is Arreola is better conditioned.

You refuse to talk abou the fact that his only match past 7 rounds ended in an SD with a guy who went 31-32 for his career. And it took Frazier 11 rounds to KO Mathis and people had it close up until the last few rounds.

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 08:13 PM
You show how stupid you are with every post.Buster Mathis had to come down from 300lbs to fight you idiot.Look at his amateur career first you moron.You do know he was going to represent the United States in the olympics? But he got hurt.The guy he beat to go to the olympics(Joe Frazier) won a Gold medal!! Mathis would have won that Gold medal if he didn't get hurt.Go find that one in boxrec,Lol When Mathis turned pro he had to DROP WEIGHT to get down to 250lbs.Didn't know that did you? You see,i was following boxing and Ali,Frazier,and Mathis at this time.

I notice that you don't mention that Mathis KO'd 6'9" 244lbs James Beattie,who was 30-4.I notice you don't mention that Mathis KO'd UNDEFEATED 6'4" 260lbs Humphrey McBride who was 25-0.

I told you Mathis was never the same AFTER he got brutally KO'd by Joe Frazier.So there you go looking for fights after he fought Frazier.Lol...You are the boxrec warrior.I'm 53 years old and have been following boxing since i was a little kid,where you have to go to boxrec to get your information.

Keep on posting.Please keep posting.We all get a laugh out of it.Keep showing how stupid you are.Lol

You sound like a body builder,Lol...Look at Wlad's arms.Look at the size etc. etc. You act like this is a body builder's competition,Lol God help this man.He really doesn't know how stupid he sounds.Ok,lets compare there chests,arms,legs etc. etc. Lol,Lol Please keep posting TheMagicMan,please!!

Here let me break down the argument so you can see how surreal your post is:

You: Buster Mathis was big and Frazier beat him so he'd kill Wlad
Wlad: Buster Mathis was fat, its shown by the fact he had rolls, he lost over 20 lbs after the frazier fight in his battle to try to get in shape, he had small arms and legs, and he is a bad example as he barely used his jab and was only 6'3. Also Frazier won because Mathis gassed, not because of some brutal early spark or mid fight hit, but rather it was a close fight until Mathis went further in a fight than he had ever gone, and only once had he gotten to 10 rounds and that was a terrible performance where he was gassing and barely won.
You: But he beat tons of big guys. And youre a body builder cause you think arms and leg strength matters.
Me: <confused> Beating other fat guys doesnt mean anything. Also muscle mass matters, excess fat doesnt matter. Im sure youll try to change the discussion again.

NChristo
08-17-2010, 08:14 PM
Ali was never a guy you would back in a street fight, Frazier or Marciano would be fun though :)
As for kick boxing fists have less distance to travel than legs so ignoring films kick boxing isn't going to prove any advantage in a street fight.
Why the hell are you still talking to this idiot?

Yeah I know, just he said Ali would whoop Wlad in a street fight and then "Wlad" said that Vitali would whoop Ali, it didn't make any sense bringing in another person to try and defend his claim.

I already stopped talking to him. :boxing:

JAB5239
08-17-2010, 08:19 PM
You show how stupid you are with every post.Buster Mathis had to come down from 300lbs to fight you idiot.Look at his amateur career first you moron.You do know he was going to represent the United States in the olympics? But he got hurt.The guy he beat to go to the olympics(Joe Frazier) won a Gold medal!! Mathis would have won that Gold medal if he didn't get hurt.Go find that one in boxrec,Lol When Mathis turned pro he had to DROP WEIGHT to get down to 250lbs.Didn't know that did you? You see,i was following boxing and Ali,Frazier,and Mathis at this time.

I notice that you don't mention that Mathis KO'd 6'9" 244lbs James Beattie,who was 30-4.I notice you don't mention that Mathis KO'd UNDEFEATED 6'4" 260lbs Humphrey McBride who was 25-0.

I told you Mathis was never the same AFTER he got brutally KO'd by Joe Frazier.So there you go looking for fights after he fought Frazier.Lol...You are the boxrec warrior.I'm 53 years old and have been following boxing since i was a little kid,where you have to go to boxrec to get your information.

Keep on posting.Please keep posting.We all get a laugh out of it.Keep showing how stupid you are.Lol

You sound like a body builder,Lol...Look at Wlad's arms.Look at the size etc. etc. You act like this is a body builder's competition,Lol God help this man.He really doesn't know how stupid he sounds.Ok,lets compare there chests,arms,legs etc. etc. Lol,Lol Please keep posting TheMagicMan,please!!

Complete and utter ownage!!!

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 08:20 PM
Yeah I know, just he said Ali would whoop Wlad in a street fight and then "Wlad" said that Vitali would whoop Ali, it didn't make any sense bringing in another person to try and defend his claim.

I already stopped talking to him. :boxing:

Again, let me break it down for you so you can understand.

Why debate whether Kobe is better than Lebron if someone thinks Lebron is better than Jordan?

Why debate whether 2 is larger than 1 if someone thinks 1 is larger than 3

The whole point of bringing up Vitali was to see if we could actually have a debate. Vitali is bigger, stronger, with more knowledge of actual fighting, military level training in hand to hand combat etc...So if he thought that Ali would beat Vitali in a street fight id know he was just clowning around. Notice how he hasnt answered?

GJC
08-17-2010, 09:01 PM
OK boxrec warrior. Buster Mathis dropped down to 220 the same year he fought Frazier. Why? Because he was fat at 240+. He had never gone past 10 rounds before and Frazier outlasted him. Mathis's only other match past 7 rounds was a SD win that many said he lost to Bob Stallings, a 200 pounder whose career record was 31-32. Nice try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRtG6fSpy9w

This is Mathis at 230. Notice how his arms are 1/4th the size of either Wlad or Vitali. Notice how much smaller his legs are. Notice that even at 230 there are rolls above his trunks. Notice his inability to use a jab. Nothing like Wlad and nothin like Vitali.

Keep trying, Im sure a few more trips to boxrec and youll gain some knowledge.
Wow the English is coming on leaps and bounds now!

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 10:34 PM
Complete and utter ownage!!!

you are illiterate. Hey, maybe you can answer me, what match did Mathis have go past 7 rounds? How many rounds in his career did he win past the 7th? Ill await your ducking of the question. Hey lets just make it a new topic and see if you can answer it.

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 10:38 PM
Oh nd to add to the idiocy of you two. Who I hope are the same person, because if not, the world might be too dumb to live in. Buster Mathis's best win of his career came AFTER the Frazier fight. His best win by far was beating George Chuvalo. And the super hw's you talk about Buster Mathis beating happened after he fought Frazier. So what the hell are you talking about. Oh and the 25-0 guy, I had to look up, turns out most of his fights were in circus's against 300+ pounders in a joke division called The Superheavyweight Division.

JAB5239
08-17-2010, 10:42 PM
you are illiterate. Hey, maybe you can answer me, what match did Mathis have go past 7 rounds? How many rounds in his career did he win past the 7th? Ill await your ducking of the question. Hey lets just make it a new topic and see if you can answer it.

What does winning past the 7th have to do with anything? Fights can be won any time between the opening and final bell.

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 10:43 PM
You show how stupid you are with every post.Buster Mathis had to come down from 300lbs to fight you idiot.Look at his amateur career first you moron.You do know he was going to represent the United States in the olympics? But he got hurt.The guy he beat to go to the olympics(Joe Frazier) won a Gold medal!! Mathis would have won that Gold medal if he didn't get hurt.Go find that one in boxrec,Lol When Mathis turned pro he had to DROP WEIGHT to get down to 250lbs.Didn't know that did you? You see,i was following boxing and Ali,Frazier,and Mathis at this time.

I notice that you don't mention that Mathis KO'd 6'9" 244lbs James Beattie,who was 30-4.I notice you don't mention that Mathis KO'd UNDEFEATED 6'4" 260lbs Humphrey McBride who was 25-0.

I told you Mathis was never the same AFTER he got brutally KO'd by Joe Frazier.So there you go looking for fights after he fought Frazier.Lol...You are the boxrec warrior.I'm 53 years old and have been following boxing since i was a little kid,where you have to go to boxrec to get your information.

Keep on posting.Please keep posting.We all get a laugh out of it.Keep showing how stupid you are.Lol

You sound like a body builder,Lol...Look at Wlad's arms.Look at the size etc. etc. You act like this is a body builder's competition,Lol God help this man.He really doesn't know how stupid he sounds.Ok,lets compare there chests,arms,legs etc. etc. Lol,Lol Please keep posting TheMagicMan,please!!

Every fight you cited was after he lost to Joe Frazier. The fights I was talking about were before Joe Frazier. You are an idiot. You are the dumbest person on the interwebs. The idiocy is mind numbing. Like Ive never been more confused in my life. How dumb are you? I hope you never bred. Because this lunacy has to die with you.

The James Beattie fight, that you promote that you say was some great win, happened FOUR ****ING MONTHS AFTER HE FOUGHT FRAZIER. Mathis weighed in at 226 lbs. The great James Beattie mind you had fought only once outside of Minnesota because he was a club fighter. Dear god, you are the epitome of a boxrec warrior. Whered you see the fight? BECAUSE THERES NO FOOTAGE OF IT. Just end it.

NOW THAT IS ****ING OWNAGE.

Wlad Klitschko
08-17-2010, 10:46 PM
what does winning past the 7th have to do with anything? Fights can be won any time between the opening and final bell.

because his point was frazier brutally ko'd mathis. Mathis was just tired. He had never gone that long. That is the point. Up until that point in his career he had never won a round past the 7th. Hence it isnt shocking that he would be kod in the 11th round. I am using all caps to hopefully get through to you. I have never been more frustrated in my life dealing with this idiocy.

sleazyfellow
08-17-2010, 11:17 PM
Anybody who responded to this thread got trolled by wlad.... ali didn't ever have great hitting power but he controlled a lot of stronger opponents in the clinch, would he be able to do that to wlad? Who knows...also, for being 185 pounds if wlad got hit flush by cooper he'd stay down for 10

blaze778
08-17-2010, 11:22 PM
:gives:

BTW, Ali.

BennyST
08-17-2010, 11:51 PM
No need to make fun of my English. I say it is second language. What other languages do you speek? And bert sugar just old man. Also slave to nostalgia like most on this forum. I do not come to insult individuals and I am not an alt as you say. I am simple fan on Wlad Klitschko. He is my favorite fighter and best ever heavyweight. He is knock out master and brilliant man. Why compare Wlad out of ring to Ali? Ali is not a noble man like Wlad. Ali is not a smart man like Wlad. Ali turn his back on his country, on his religion, on his wife. Wlad never turn his back. Wlad is not selfish like Ali. Please do not compare Wlad to this man. Do not disparage Wlad. He is a good man.

In the ring right now he cannot be defeat. He win against anyone. He more dominant than Ali ever was. His strength is much larger than Ali, that is not debatable but some say, "ali just as strong." Ali not just as strong as wlad.

You wish me away so I go. No need for insults or accusations. I not insult any of you. I merely try to discuss rationally. Why say Ali beat Foreman. I watch fight. Foreman up at count of 8, why he counted out? That is not win. Wlad nothing liek Foremna either. he is intelligent and uses his jab more effectively and since entering his prime he doesnt punch himself out.

You all love Ali. That is fine, but you are blinded by it and a slave to it and it prohibits you from loving true champion and great man Wlad Klitschko.

You're insulting everyone in the history section with this whole thread.

BennyST
08-17-2010, 11:53 PM
Every fight you cited was after he lost to Joe Frazier. The fights I was talking about were before Joe Frazier. You are an idiot. You are the dumbest person on the interwebs. The idiocy is mind numbing. Like Ive never been more confused in my life. How dumb are you? I hope you never bred. Because this lunacy has to die with you.

The James Beattie fight, that you promote that you say was some great win, happened FOUR ****ING MONTHS AFTER HE FOUGHT FRAZIER. Mathis weighed in at 226 lbs. The great James Beattie mind you had fought only once outside of Minnesota because he was a club fighter. Dear god, you are the epitome of a boxrec warrior. Whered you see the fight? BECAUSE THERES NO FOOTAGE OF IT. Just end it.

NOW THAT IS ****ING OWNAGE.

I did also be thinking you aren't able to speak the English? Seeming to me you are using excellent and good words in the sentences that is write by you.

JAB5239
08-18-2010, 01:45 AM
because his point was frazier brutally ko'd mathis. Mathis was just tired. He had never gone that long. That is the point.

So what does that mean exactly? Frazier is an all time great and 17 of his first 19 opponents didn't make through the 10th round. He specialized in wearing fighters down.

Up until that point in his career he had never won a round past the 7th.

Prove it or just shut up already. I know I can prove he has. I'll wait to hear your response (excuse) before making you look even more foolish.

Hence it isnt shocking that he would be kod in the 11th round. I am using all caps to hopefully get through to you. I have never been more frustrated in my life dealing with this idiocy.

You aren't even bright enough to use all caps. :pat:

JAB5239
08-18-2010, 01:46 AM
You're insulting everyone in the history section with this whole thread.

The history section needs a mod!

BennyST
08-18-2010, 02:31 AM
The history section needs a mod!

Yeah, it does. It won't get one though. We're like the forgotten backwater hicks of the BS world.

T.McGrady
08-18-2010, 02:43 AM
Wlad Klitschko.

JAB5239
08-18-2010, 02:50 AM
Yeah, it does. It won't get one though. We're like the forgotten backwater hicks of the BS world.

<object width="500" height="405"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/Uzae_SqbmDE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/Uzae_SqbmDE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="500" height="405"></embed></object>

If we keep complaining legitimate gripes they'll give us one sooner or later. Sooner would be better.

sonnyboyx2
08-18-2010, 03:50 AM
If Ali always had better punch resistance how does 185 lbs little man knock him down and hurt him. Wlad never get hurt by 185 lbs little man? Also, Wlad does not get punched in face by mid level fighters. Wlad does not get hit. Eddie Chambers is much better than many of Ali's opponents. Wlad beat him without getting hit. Opinions are not facts. To say todays heavyweight division is the worst is an opinion. To say Ali's skills are better is opinion. However, opinions should be backed up with a fact. I say Ali did not take punch well because 185 lbs little man hurt him. I say Ali's not as skilled because he developed brain damage blocking punches with his face. He also never threw a body shot. It would take body shots to beat wlad. I say Wlad always got up so its hard to question his gut. Did he punch himself out at times sure? Did Sanders hurt him? Of course, but Wlad never quit. He always got up.

I want to know more abotu Terrell and how he stacks up in comparison to Wlad in terms of weight and KO%.

another size moron.. "My Daddy is Bigger than your Daddy theory"

Since when was Muhammad Ali 185lbs?

Wlad is no more than 2ins taller than Muhammad Ali which is nothing... Wlad`s feet are nailed to the canvas he is that `Robotic`.. Ernie Terrell, Chuck Wepner, Joe Bugner are all as big if not bigger than Wlad with Bugner & Terrell better skilled with better punch resistance

sandysandara
08-18-2010, 03:53 AM
I don't know why people are comparing Klitschko to Ali so much anyways. It's not fair to Klitschko because Ali was in a completely different class.

Spartacus Sully
08-18-2010, 03:59 AM
another size moron.. "My Daddy is Bigger than your Daddy theory"

Since when was Muhammad Ali 185lbs?

Wlad is no more than 2ins taller than Muhammad Ali which is nothing... Wlad`s feet are nailed to the canvas he is that `Robotic`.. Ernie Terrell, Chuck Wepner, Joe Bugner are all as big if not bigger than Wlad with Bugner & Terrell better skilled with better punch resistance


I belive he said that ali was knocked down by some one that was 185, not that ali was 185.

wmute
08-18-2010, 04:16 AM
I am sure Wlad would be able to bench press more than Ali. That's fitting because the horizontal position is how he would end a fight against Ali.

Vadrigar.
08-18-2010, 07:29 AM
The history section needs a mod!

Do you think TS should be banned?

yessuh
08-18-2010, 08:02 AM
another size moron.. "My Daddy is Bigger than your Daddy theory"

Since when was Muhammad Ali 185lbs?

Wlad is no more than 2ins taller than Muhammad Ali which is nothing... Wlad`s feet are nailed to the canvas he is that `Robotic`.. Ernie Terrell, Chuck Wepner, Joe Bugner are all as big if not bigger than Wlad with Bugner & Terrell better skilled with better punch resistance

You're a retard. Wlad is very athletic and has great footwork. Wlad would murder those bums Terrell, Wepner and Bugner on the same night.

Emanuel Steward: I could not train a man to beat Wladimir Klitschko

Steward: “Wladimir is gonna be the one I don’t think I could train a man to beat the way he is. I’m serious. I’ve never had a fighter – I went from Holyfield and all the guys I’ve worked with, never, Lennox – Wladimir is a very, very committed, very difficult fighter to beat. Because he won’t let you fight him. He makes you fight what he wants you to fight. But the biggest thing which I think people are not looking at is his speed for a big man. Tremendous speed. Foot Speed. He can move in, explode, move out, move back in, explode, and I’ve never seen anyone that could…move in and out and be in perfect balance,”

wmute
08-18-2010, 09:13 AM
You're a retard. Wlad is very athletic and has great footwork. Wlad would murder those bums Terrell, Wepner and Bugner on the same night.

Emanuel Steward: I could not train a man to beat Wladimir Klitschko

Steward: “Wladimir is gonna be the one I don’t think I could train a man to beat the way he is. I’m serious. I’ve never had a fighter – I went from Holyfield and all the guys I’ve worked with, never, Lennox – Wladimir is a very, very committed, very difficult fighter to beat. Because he won’t let you fight him. He makes you fight what he wants you to fight. But the biggest thing which I think people are not looking at is his speed for a big man. Tremendous speed. Foot Speed. He can move in, explode, move out, move back in, explode, and I’ve never seen anyone that could…move in and out and be in perfect balance,”

Purrity
Sanders
Brewster

No argument is good against 3 stoppage losses against mediocre opposition.

wmute
08-18-2010, 09:25 AM
Purrity
Sanders
Brewster

No argument is good against 3 stoppage losses against mediocre opposition.

The b!tch *****hammer 2010 gave me red k for this post.

I guess the problem about truth is that it burns.

Vadrigar.
08-18-2010, 09:27 AM
Purrity
Sanders
Brewster

No argument is good against 3 stoppage losses against mediocre opposition.

Yeah only 3 rounds in 3 years.

Ziggy Stardust
08-18-2010, 09:39 AM
The b!tch *****hammer 2010 gave me red k for this post.

I guess the problem about truth is that it burns.

Yeah, the Klitlickers do that when you don't aknowledge their boys as the co-GOATs.....btw, Steelhammer2010 is the newest account of the infamous and oft banned Wlad Ownz.

Poet

Wlad Klitschko
08-18-2010, 10:00 AM
You aren't even bright enough to use all caps. :pat:

Mods this guy needs to be banned. He needs to be placed in an asylum. He is either 1. insane or 2 the dumbest on all interwebs. Seriously. Just read his arguments. He says that before Frazier, Mathis had one a round past the 7th. Well prior to Frazier he only went past the 7th once. It was against Bob Stallings. Mathis fought stallings twice, both times it went to the cards, their first fight was only 6 rounds and Mathis UD'ed Stallings. Their second fight went all 10 and Mathis won a split decision win. Mathis did not win a round past the 6th. That was the only fight he had before Frazier to go that long and it was mentioned during the Frazier fight.

Mathis outpointed Frazier in the amateurs. However as pointed out in this article during their pro fight...

"This time Joe would have more rounds to work over and wear down Big
Buster. Finally in the eleventh round Buster went down and Joe had a piece
of the heavyweight pie.

So even if you compare Wlad to Buster Mathis (which is absurd because they look and fight nothing alike), it wasnt some brutal KO, but rather a TKO in the 11th when a fat Buster Mathis gassed.

Also, the idea that Mathis was ruined after Frazier is a joke. If his career ended right then his best win was Chuck Wepner. That is when his career took off. Also found in this article.

"After the loss to Frazier, Mathis put together a nice five bout win
streak. He beat Mel Turnbow, James J. Beattie, Amos ” Big Train ” Lincoln,
Dick Wipperman and James J. Woody. That was pretty respectable opposition at
that time. This led to another shot at the big time. A match with the
brawling Canadian contender George Chuvalo.

The bout with Chuvalo would be the highlight of Buster’s fine career."

http://www.boxingrepublic.com/2009/02/13/big-buster-mathis-has-history-been-unkind-to-him/

So again, I am talking about history and facts and actual fights and you guys refuse. I think the Boxing History section elitists all need to be banned so that actual knowledgeable people can discuss boxing. Not this type of nonsense.

Wlad Klitschko
08-18-2010, 10:03 AM
Yeah only 3 rounds in 3 years.

Uhh it was clearly before his time. Ali lost to a guy with 6 wins, quit on his stool against Holmes and got beat down by a bad Trevor Berbick. But let me guess...he was past prime. Wlad can have a prime to.

Wlad Klitschko
08-18-2010, 10:08 AM
TS could be an ALT of them, what do you think?

Im an alt because I asked a simple question and people on here refused to give a simple answer?

Ziggy Stardust
08-18-2010, 10:09 AM
TS could be an ALT of them, what do you think?

Certainly possible, though I think you're right in this being MagicMan's newest ban-evasion alt.

Poet

Vadrigar.
08-18-2010, 10:17 AM
Certainly possible, though I think you're right in this being MagicMan's newest ban-evasion alt.

Poet

He's deliberately trying to put on a "bad English" act, but flip flops with many phrases. :lol1:

Uhh it was clearly before his time.

Yeah, clearly before he met Brewster. :)

Wlad Klitschko
08-18-2010, 11:13 AM
I have placed all the thread hijackers on ignore so we can actually discuss these topics like rational people.

musiol
08-18-2010, 11:59 AM
Uhh it was clearly before his time. Ali lost to a guy with 6 wins, quit on his stool against Holmes and got beat down by a bad Trevor Berbick. But let me guess...he was past prime. Wlad can have a prime to.

disgrace even bringing those ali fights into it get wlads **** out your mouth a think wlad or vitali will lose in the next two years

Steak
08-18-2010, 12:08 PM
Uhh it was clearly before his time. Ali lost to a guy with 6 wins, quit on his stool against Holmes and got beat down by a bad Trevor Berbick. But let me guess...he was past prime. Wlad can have a prime to.
what time frame do you believe is Wladimir's prime, the years?

Wlad Klitschko
08-18-2010, 12:31 PM
what time frame do you believe is Wladimir's prime, the years?

2005- present. His prime probably wont end until 2014 or so. Look at how his body has changed and he actually fits it. Wlad as an amateur wasnt a big guy, he was a rail thin guy, he now has muscle which has helped his chin, he now has stamina and he actually has his own style now, not just some lame copy of Vitali's

musiol
08-18-2010, 12:35 PM
helped his chin how when was the last time he was hit,and a thought you just started following wlad a few years ago your just a lying cunt

Steak
08-18-2010, 12:43 PM
while I partially agree that Wladimir is at his best now and from 2005, he was dropped by Davarryl Williamson very near 2005 and was dropped 3 times against Sam Peter in 2005(although only one or maybe two were truly legitimate). He still has some weak points in his game, as do all fighters, and you cant totally ignore his fights beforehand...he was already about 27 or 28 when he lost to Sanders and Brewster, and was already weighing in at the 240s then,why is what he weighs in todays fights.

Wlad also was outlanded and outjabbed by Tony Thompson and struggled to hit Sultan Ibragimov, which of course he still won without much hassle but he simply not the destroyer you make him out to be in all situations. Thompson is similiar to a degree to Terrell, except Terrell was much better.(sorry Tony).

and if Sam Peter can hurt Wlad with a right hand over the jab, Im thinking that Ali could do the same except much quicker, because his money punch was that choppy right hand of his.

Wlad Klitschko
08-18-2010, 01:14 PM
while I partially agree that Wladimir is at his best now and from 2005, he was dropped by Davarryl Williamson very near 2005 and was dropped 3 times against Sam Peter in 2005(although only one or maybe two were truly legitimate). He still has some weak points in his game, as do all fighters, and you cant totally ignore his fights beforehand...he was already about 27 or 28 when he lost to Sanders and Brewster, and was already weighing in at the 240s then,why is what he weighs in todays fights.

Wlad also was outlanded and outjabbed by Tony Thompson and struggled to hit Sultan Ibragimov, which of course he still won without much hassle but he simply not the destroyer you make him out to be in all situations. Thompson is similiar to a degree to Terrell, except Terrell was much better.(sorry Tony).

and if Sam Peter can hurt Wlad with a right hand over the jab, Im thinking that Ali could do the same except much quicker, because his money punch was that choppy right hand of his.

First of all thankyou for an actual knowledgeable response. You know, one where you cite facts to back up your opinion. That seems to be very rare here. Also no personal insults another plus. I disagree, but thats the point of a forum, to communicate and converse.

With the Tony Thompson fight stuff. Tony showed some heart there, but no one in their right mind had him winning when he got brutally destroyed by Wlad. Dont be a slave to compubox.

When Wlad lost to Purrity, he weighed 225 lbs. That is incredibly light for a guy his height. Also it was his 12th fight in 12 months, so anyone who brings up Purrity is a joke. Wlad was young and thin and tired. So that is one loss that can be explained by "not being prime."

Sultan is tough to hit and Wlad did struggle to hit him, but he pretty much retired the guy. I mean imo the ref did a huge disevice to sultan by not stopping that fight. Sultan landed some shots, but he wasnt even really trying to win, just make it respectful come the second half of the round.

And sam peter when fit is a great fighter imo. I think Peter would be a nightmare for people from other eras. He is big strong, you dont actual think Ali hits as hard as Peter do you?

And as for Terrell, perhaps a guy as tall as wlad could land some weak punches on him, but that doesnt mean they are as big or as tough as Wlad.

Wlad Klitschko
08-18-2010, 01:15 PM
helped his chin how when was the last time he was hit,and a thought you just started following wlad a few years ago your just a lying cunt

Well weighing 225 and being in his 12th fight in 12 months probably didnt help his chin against Purrity. If Wlad has a weakness its his chin. he has learned to protect it, now he doesnt get hit. Isnt that what a boxer is supposed to do? I know youre a holy fan, but come on, the key is to hit and not get hit, yes I know Holy's key was to hit and hit and not worry if he got hit, but thats just Holy

BattlingNelson
08-18-2010, 02:01 PM
................................

Wlad Klitschko: Listen up prick.

You were the one who started pretending not to speak English, so don't pretend to be offended and put me on ignore. It's pathetic, retarded and shows a major lack of balls.

Anyway, what I wanted to comment on in your thread, which made me make this one, was that ridiculous last sentence of your paragraph.

"Still hasnt been in the ring top 10 p4p, which is a joke imo. He hasnt lost since Lewis and Lewis refused a rematch, what can he do?"

What can he do? Well, he could have beaten him the first time around instead of losing by TKO. How's that?

Ciao for now. Oh, and beefor you do start on the reply to answer question of mine, please and think like normal person to not starting fake threads pretending as Russian who cannot speak the english well yes? Cunt.

JAB5239
08-18-2010, 02:04 PM
Do you think TS should be banned?

Not yet, but he is clearly trolling for attention.

JAB5239
08-18-2010, 02:10 PM
Mods this guy needs to be banned. He needs to be placed in an asylum. He is either 1. insane or 2 the dumbest on all interwebs. Seriously. Just read his arguments. He says that before Frazier, Mathis had one a round past the 7th.

If anyone is getting banned, it will be you again.

Where did I say this? Post a link please.

musiol
08-18-2010, 02:22 PM
First of all thankyou for an actual knowledgeable response. You know, one where you cite facts to back up your opinion. That seems to be very rare here. Also no personal insults another plus. I disagree, but thats the point of a forum, to communicate and converse.

With the Tony Thompson fight stuff. Tony showed some heart there, but no one in their right mind had him winning when he got brutally destroyed by Wlad. Dont be a slave to compubox.

When Wlad lost to Purrity, he weighed 225 lbs. That is incredibly light for a guy his height. Also it was his 12th fight in 12 months, so anyone who brings up Purrity is a joke. Wlad was young and thin and tired. So that is one loss that can be explained by "not being prime."

Sultan is tough to hit and Wlad did struggle to hit him, but he pretty much retired the guy. I mean imo the ref did a huge disevice to sultan by not stopping that fight. Sultan landed some shots, but he wasnt even really trying to win, just make it respectful come the second half of the round.

And sam peter when fit is a great fighter imo. I think Peter would be a nightmare for people from other eras. He is big strong, you dont actual think Ali hits as hard as Peter do you?

And as for Terrell, perhaps a guy as tall as wlad could land some weak punches on him, but that doesnt mean they are as big or as tough as Wlad.

thompson showed no heart he tried to survive and didnt even give it a go as did sultan he danced around wlad eating the odd jab,christ a OLD as hell holyfield landed some good power punches on sultan its called letting your hands go something wlad has a problem with due to think fact his chin will be exposed if he does let them go when a guy is in healthy condition.
As for peter he is not a great fighter hes **** bottom line

Wlad Klitschko
08-18-2010, 03:08 PM
thompson showed no heart he tried to survive and didnt even give it a go as did sultan he danced around wlad eating the odd jab,christ a OLD as hell holyfield landed some good power punches on sultan its called letting your hands go something wlad has a problem with due to think fact his chin will be exposed if he does let them go when a guy is in healthy condition.
As for peter he is not a great fighter hes **** bottom line

Thompson threw, Sultan had not chance and I mentioned that. He threw a few punches to the body, but that was just to not completely be embarassed. Why does Wlad have to let his hands go. If the point of boxing is to win, then he should just win. people liek you are why Pompey lost to Caesar, Pompei had Caesar outnumbered and surrounded, but rather than starve him and save the Roman republic he sent his forces in. They were repelled by Caesars starving, backs to the wall troops, and the rest as we say is history. Wlad plays it smart and starves his opponents. He fights to win, not to please. Thats not a crime. Old as hell holy got whooped by Sultan.

Steak
08-18-2010, 03:09 PM
First of all thankyou for an actual knowledgeable response. You know, one where you cite facts to back up your opinion. That seems to be very rare here. Also no personal insults another plus. I disagree, but thats the point of a forum, to communicate and converse.

With the Tony Thompson fight stuff. Tony showed some heart there, but no one in their right mind had him winning when he got brutally destroyed by Wlad. Dont be a slave to compubox.

When Wlad lost to Purrity, he weighed 225 lbs. That is incredibly light for a guy his height. Also it was his 12th fight in 12 months, so anyone who brings up Purrity is a joke. Wlad was young and thin and tired. So that is one loss that can be explained by "not being prime."

Sultan is tough to hit and Wlad did struggle to hit him, but he pretty much retired the guy. I mean imo the ref did a huge disevice to sultan by not stopping that fight. Sultan landed some shots, but he wasnt even really trying to win, just make it respectful come the second half of the round.

And sam peter when fit is a great fighter imo. I think Peter would be a nightmare for people from other eras. He is big strong, you dont actual think Ali hits as hard as Peter do you?

And as for Terrell, perhaps a guy as tall as wlad could land some weak punches on him, but that doesnt mean they are as big or as tough as Wlad.
I never brought up the Purrity fight...like Ali against Cooper, Wlad was very young and green, and no fighter is above being KOed, especially when they arent fully developed.

I brought up the Brewster and Sanders fights. Wladimir was 240lbs for those fights if Im not mistaken, and he is extremely close to that weight nowadays. I dont think his chin has gotten any better, or worse, since then. His defense has though, and his overall fighting strategy.

while Peter does have a fair amount of power, the shots he rocked Wlad with were even full body ones. go to 3:45.
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dont get me wrong, it wouldnt feel great to get hit by that, but it was too choppy and actually the weight behind the punch was angled downwards, as opposed to straight into the chin where Ali would have thrown it from. The actualy knockdown itself at 3:54 is actually a straight up arm punch. you can tell because his body weight has already been shifted foward previous to throwing the punch AND because his feet were not set at all, it was basically him scooting along at a walk. not to mention it was thrown in a pawing motion, which is not an effective way at all to transition power behind a punch.
go to 9:12
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notice how Ali not only continually looks for the right hand over the jab, but also is able to align his body behind the punch and aim directly on the temple, making his opponents legs automatically give out. not the hugest shot, but neither was this.
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and I could definitely see Ali being able to pull something like that off if Williamson could

Wlad Klitschko
08-18-2010, 03:14 PM
Wlad's reach is better, Wlad's power is better, Ali trying to counter would have tot ake a ton of punishment to time that right. Also, Wlad goes down many times because of knowledge of his chin. He'd rather go down at the first case of danger than get KO'ed. Again, Wlad plays it safe, hed rather win 118-110 or something than go for 120-108 and risk a KO. He is a smart man and controls himself in the ring. That control is why I think hed beat Ali. Ali tricked his opponents into fighting the fight he wanted. He badmouthed them, he ridiculed them, he was racist towards them. Wlad wouldnt care, hes as stoic as can be. Vitali might make it a war, but Wlad, would just jab jab jab, right, clinch over and over until Ali made the same mistake Ben Stiller did in Tropic Thunder and go Full Retard.

boxing boy
08-18-2010, 03:58 PM
Every fight you cited was after he lost to Joe Frazier. The fights I was talking about were before Joe Frazier. You are an idiot. You are the dumbest person on the interwebs. The idiocy is mind numbing. Like Ive never been more confused in my life. How dumb are you? I hope you never bred. Because this lunacy has to die with you.

The James Beattie fight, that you promote that you say was some great win, happened FOUR ****ING MONTHS AFTER HE FOUGHT FRAZIER. Mathis weighed in at 226 lbs. The great James Beattie mind you had fought only once outside of Minnesota because he was a club fighter. Dear god, you are the epitome of a boxrec warrior. Whered you see the fight? BECAUSE THERES NO FOOTAGE OF IT. Just end it.

NOW THAT IS ****ING OWNAGE.

You took the bait,Lol.....I knew you would run to boxrec,and you did.That's your 2nd home.

Hey everybody lets have a body building contest!! Lol

Lifting weights means nothing either when it comes to boxing.Back in the 1970's they had a show on TV called the Super Stars(Or something like that) and Joe Frazier could not lift 160lbs over his head.Heck,i only weighed 132lbs at that time and could lift more weight over my head than Joe Frazier!!

It doesn't matter if your tall,skinny,short or fat in boxing.It doesn't matter how well your built etc. etc. If you knew ANYTHING about boxing you would know this.

Thanks for taking the bait and running to boxrec,like i knew you would,Lol...What shall your new name be, Body Builder or boxrec man?

wmute
08-18-2010, 05:34 PM
The b!tch *****hammer 2010 gave me red k for this post.

I guess the problem about truth is that it burns.

and the Wlad Klitschko b!tch gave me red k for this one...

oh my god these little girls crack me up...

Wlad Klitschko
08-18-2010, 05:45 PM
You took the bait,Lol.....I knew you would run to boxrec,and you did.That's your 2nd home.

Hey everybody lets have a body building contest!! Lol

Lifting weights means nothing either when it comes to boxing.Back in the 1970's they had a show on TV called the Super Stars(Or something like that) and Joe Frazier could not lift 160lbs over his head.Heck,i only weighed 132lbs at that time and could lift more weight over my head than Joe Frazier!!

It doesn't matter if your tall,skinny,short or fat in boxing.It doesn't matter how well your built etc. etc. If you knew ANYTHING about boxing you would know this.

Thanks for taking the bait and running to boxrec,like i knew you would,Lol...What shall your new name be, Body Builder or boxrec man?

Uhh actually I didnt run to boxrec, i cited an article that I was familiar with....Wow, youre fairly pathetic. red k. so you were wrong and I proved you wrong so you say, "you went to boxrec?" wow...

musiol
08-19-2010, 11:40 AM
Thompson threw, Sultan had not chance and I mentioned that. He threw a few punches to the body, but that was just to not completely be embarassed. Why does Wlad have to let his hands go. If the point of boxing is to win, then he should just win. people liek you are why Pompey lost to Caesar, Pompei had Caesar outnumbered and surrounded, but rather than starve him and save the Roman republic he sent his forces in. They were repelled by Caesars starving, backs to the wall troops, and the rest as we say is history. Wlad plays it smart and starves his opponents. He fights to win, not to please. Thats not a crime. Old as hell holy got whooped by Sultan.

look you said sultan is hard to hit a said holyfield landed some good power shots,did a say he won and sh1t noooo yeah 4rounds n 5 a think on the cards got whooopd.never been whooped lol oh please dont upset me

Wlad Klitschko
08-19-2010, 12:06 PM
look you said sultan is hard to hit a said holyfield landed some good power shots,did a say he won and sh1t noooo yeah 4rounds n 5 a think on the cards got whooopd.never been whooped lol oh please dont upset me

haha holy landed 14% of his punches on sultan. Sultan won 118-110. Sultan landed 197 punches to Holy's 49...yeah...Holy got werked. He got whooped bad.

He landed one good shot, that was it. 5 rounds? haha, what 5 rounds, he landed 49 punches total. hahahahahah. He won 5 rounds and landed 49 punches?

Holy landed 14% of his shots on Sultan...but no hes not hard to hit.............outta here troll.

Steak
08-19-2010, 12:15 PM
you do realise that Holyfield had been shot since he was 40(which was about 6 years ago), right?

and that no one in their right mind would have ever imagined he would still even be getting title shots(or even fighting bums) after getting TKOed by James Toney and being medically suspended from boxing, let alone going the distance with current champions and even deserving a win against one of them(Valuev).

I mean if that isnt a flashing light to tell you the division is subpar, I dont know what is.

Wlad Klitschko
08-19-2010, 12:17 PM
you do realise that Holyfield had been shot since he was 40(which was about 6 years ago), right?

and that no one in their right mind would have ever imagined he would still even be getting title shots(or even fighting bums) after getting TKOed by James Toney and being medically suspended from boxing, let alone going the distance with current champions and even deserving a win against one of them(Valuev).

I mean if that isnt a flashing light to tell you the division is subpar, I dont know what is.

Uhh...in my post I say that Holy was shot. This guys trying toa rgue that Holy won 5 rounds and landed at will on sultan. It is in my post that he was SHOT. How hard is it to read? Im not saying it was some great win, he brought up Holy. Im saying that Holy landed 49 punches in the fight and landed 14% of the time. That=not landing at will.

Sultan is a slick fighter.

Steak
08-19-2010, 12:21 PM
Holyfield actually did land more on Sultan than I thought, and honestly I thought Sultan would have put him away mid way through the fight at least...I mean, Holyfield got worse from the Toney fight.

but meh, thats mostly nitpicking. I just expected more out of Ibragimov in that fight. thats all.

He is a defensive minded fighter, and therefor IS pretty hard to hit, but I wish Wlad would have put him away late in the fight, when he obviously could have. oh well.

Wlad Klitschko
08-19-2010, 12:25 PM
Holyfield actually did land more on Sultan than I thought, and honestly I thought Sultan would have put him away mid way through the fight at least...I mean, Holyfield got worse from the Toney fight.

but meh, thats mostly nitpicking. I just expected more out of Ibragimov in that fight. thats all.

He is a defensive minded fighter, and therefor IS pretty hard to hit, but I wish Wlad would have put him away late in the fight, when he obviously could have. oh well.

I agree, i thought Wlad should finished Sultan and Sultan would finish holy. However, it is telling that Sultan hasnt fought in 2 years now.

Tyson.
08-19-2010, 01:32 PM
The present is the only thing that matters right now.

Wlad is the current champ and deserves his props.Ali is an ATG but isnt relevant in todays heavyweight division.

The TS obviously has an inferiority complex.

musiol
08-19-2010, 01:36 PM
Thompson threw, Sultan had not chance and I mentioned that. He threw a few punches to the body, but that was just to not completely be embarassed. Why does Wlad have to let his hands go. If the point of boxing is to win, then he should just win. people liek you are why Pompey lost to Caesar, Pompei had Caesar outnumbered and surrounded, but rather than starve him and save the Roman republic he sent his forces in. They were repelled by Caesars starving, backs to the wall troops, and the rest as we say is history. Wlad plays it smart and starves his opponents. He fights to win, not to please. Thats not a crime. Old as hell holy got whooped by Sultan.

Uhh...in my post I say that Holy was shot. This guys trying toa rgue that Holy won 5 rounds and landed at will on sultan. It is in my post that he was SHOT. How hard is it to read? Im not saying it was some great win, he brought up Holy. Im saying that Holy landed 49 punches in the fight and landed 14% of the time. That=not landing at will.

Sultan is a slick fighter.

you are stupid eh a said he landed some good power punches did a say he landed alot of punches dip**** a well he he got beat buy four rounds on 1 card you should know this because your checking sh1t out. am going buy what akin remember seeing man a would luv to take you outside and kick your ass

musiol
08-19-2010, 01:39 PM
I agree, i thought Wlad should finished Sultan and Sultan would finish holy. However, it is telling that Sultan hasnt fought in 2 years now.

what the fuk does that mean OMG either your saying sultan was shot to sh1t when he fought wlad lololol makes your guy look like a complete gay {which he was in that fight.:gay::gay:
or you saying wlad beat him up so much he never wnted to fight again lololololololollolololol

Wlad Klitschko
08-19-2010, 01:54 PM
what the fuk does that mean OMG either your saying sultan was shot to sh1t when he fought wlad lololol makes your guy look like a complete gay {which he was in that fight.:gay::gay:
or you saying wlad beat him up so much he never wnted to fight again lololololololollolololol

Uhh not very hard to figure out what that means. Never said Sultan was shot, was saying Sultan since Wlad, hasnt wanted to fight. Whether he was hurt, or his ego was hurt from suffering his first loss, Wlad clearly did something to him. Not very hard to understand.

I have worked with mentally challenged people and I am wondering, are you? Or are you a punch drunk former fighter? I cant seem to figure it out. You spell words phonetically, you lololol repeatedly, and you seem to have given up periods for lent.

musiol
08-19-2010, 02:02 PM
its all the training i have done it has fried my brain and am in need of a good nappy change am scottish so i have a bit slang when i type

Wlad Klitschko
08-19-2010, 02:10 PM
its all the training i have done it has fried my brain and am in need of a good nappy change am scottish so i have a bit slang when i type

haha well thats reasonable and understandable. I get the scottish thing now. I was wondering because you seemed to type with an accent, but I couldnt tell if it was U.S. urban, uneducated or foreign, Scottish makes perfect sense. What doesnt make sense is what a scott doing being a big fan of Holy, should you like worship Mcbride or something?

musiol
08-19-2010, 02:19 PM
mcbride haha what kevin that beat tyson,its right under a holyfield picture where am from you want to know who your talkin too ,go to profile theirs a picture of me their,been a holyfield fan since bowe 1 got tattoe n ****