View Full Version : Joe Frazier said the judges were paid off in the 2nd fight with Muhammad Ali


boxing boy
08-13-2010, 01:09 PM
I just heard an interview where Joe Frazier said that the judges were paid off in his 2nd fight against Muhammad Ali.Frazier said that Angelo Dundee and Ali's people and the black muslims paid off the judges.Frazier said that he won the fight and only the judges being paid off gave Muhammad Ali the victory.

Frazier also said that he was ahead after 14 rounds in the Trilla' in Manilla'.But that Ali's popularity influenced the judges.

I wonder what Smokin' Joe is smoking these days.

Vadrigar.
08-13-2010, 01:11 PM
When was the interview conducted?

boxing boy
08-13-2010, 01:19 PM
When was the interview conducted?

He has always said he felt he beat Muhammad Ali in there 2nd fight.In fact,right after the fight he said he thought he won all 12 rounds.

Just recently he said that he thought the judges were paid off in the 2nd fight.I believe it was 2007 that he said this.Or right around 2007.

He has always said that he thought he was ahead after 14 rounds in the Trilla' in Manilla.And he still says so to this day.

SBleeder
08-13-2010, 01:55 PM
I just heard an interview where Joe Frazier said that the judges were paid off in his 2nd fight against Muhammad Ali.Frazier said that Angelo Dundee and Ali's people and the black muslims paid off the judges.Frazier said that he won the fight and only the judges being paid off gave Muhammad Ali the victory.

Frazier also said that he was ahead after 14 rounds in the Trilla' in Manilla'.But that Ali's popularity influenced the judges.

I wonder what Smokin' Joe is smoking these days.

Was it Ali's muslim friends who beat Frazier nearly to the point of blindness in Manilla?

Stone Roses!
08-13-2010, 03:17 PM
That fight was a clear UD to Ali.

Judges being paid off (which I highly doubt, seeing as though Joe is a bitter old man) are irrelevant.

T3dBundy
08-13-2010, 03:19 PM
the second fight was anything but close, i have scored it 9-3 for ali.

GJC
08-13-2010, 03:40 PM
the second fight was anything but close, i have scored it 9-3 for ali.
Can't argue with the judges on Ali Frazier 2, if anything I think Frazier might say the refereee didn't do him too many favours conducting the fight. Shame that Frazier is so bitter about amcient history and revisits it, he had a great career and will always be remembered as a great, if he is not careful he will tarnish his legacy

rsf
08-13-2010, 04:18 PM
ali was warned tons of times about holding frazier behind the neck and not one point deducted . but then the ref was i think tony perez who i dont think was up to much. he should of had rounds taken away and perhaps been dq'd .i think futch counted over a hundred seperate warnings given to ali by perez

Bullrush
08-13-2010, 04:20 PM
for the record the black muslims also TKOd frazier in the 3rd fight

sleazyfellow
08-13-2010, 04:27 PM
for the record the black muslims also TKOd frazier in the 3rd fight

Don't forget the black muslims hired a voodoo doc to put a spell on foreman, and if that didn't work dundee had loosend the ropes, and if that didn't work they had this funny water to make foreman fight like a moron.

Frazier is a funny guy, he made that doc thrilla in manilla completely dogging ali, then he does facing ali and praises him. Its clear frazier will say anything if the price is right.

Toney616
08-14-2010, 12:03 PM
I dont know about the judges, but I do know that Toney Perez was either incompetent or on the take for that second fight

frankenfrank
08-14-2010, 03:47 PM
Don't forget the black muslims hired a voodoo doc to put a spell on foreman, and if that didn't work dundee had loosend the ropes, and if that didn't work they had this funny water to make foreman fight like a moron.

Frazier is a funny guy, he made that doc thrilla in manilla completely dogging ali, then he does facing ali and praises him. Its clear frazier will say anything if the price is right.

Dundee did loosen the ropes ! he did it by putting a big ring's ropes in the small one. boxingboy is d one whom i learned this from and this is his thread , so this is d place 4u to verify it by asking it. Of course boxingboy , as a Clayton will deny/excuse and twist reality only to make Ali , Dundee and Don King seem innocent.

JAB5239
08-14-2010, 05:03 PM
Dundee did loosen the ropes ! he did it by putting a big ring's ropes in the small one. boxingboy is d one whom i learned this from and this is his thread , so this is d place 4u to verify it by asking it. Of course boxingboy , as a Clayton will deny/excuse and twist reality only to make Ali , Dundee and Don King seem innocent.

How exactly did Dundee change the ropes when it is the commissions job to set up the ring?

frankenfrank
08-14-2010, 05:58 PM
How exactly did Dundee change the ropes when it is the commissions job to set up the ring?

So why should the commission put unfit ropes ?

frankenfrank
08-14-2010, 05:59 PM
boxingboy , why did you put prinzemanspopa on ignore ? he would have supported your stance here.

Ziggy Stardust
08-14-2010, 07:05 PM
So why should the commission put unfit ropes ?

Hmmmm. Maybe because Zaire is a third-world sh1thole and those ropes were all they had? I don't suppose THAT ever occured to your protozoa sized brain.

Poet

GJC
08-14-2010, 08:54 PM
Dundee did loosen the ropes ! he did it by putting a big ring's ropes in the small one. boxingboy is d one whom i learned this from and this is his thread , so this is d place 4u to verify it by asking it. Of course boxingboy , as a Clayton will deny/excuse and twist reality only to make Ali , Dundee and Don King seem innocent.

Learn to read then learn about boxing, this is the post you learnt it from, correct?

Dundee did not make the ropes loose.The ropes were for a 20 foot ring,and it was only a 16 foot ring.Please quit making up things.

Normally the ring is 20-24 feet for Championship fights.So there are no ropes for a 16 foot ring.Foreman wanted a small ring so Muhammad Ali would have trouble dancing,and it would make it easy for him to cut off the ring.

Dundee did not make the ropes loose,period.Please stop making "excuses" for poor old George who got a 16 foot ring,and a softly padded canvas so Ali could not dance.

Where in that post does it mention Dundee bringing the ropes with him?

Now would you like me to post some further links from Dundee etc about him attempting to tighten the ropes?

But Foreman did win the weigh in so it wasn't all bad :)

Sugarj
08-14-2010, 09:10 PM
Fraziers problems in fight two concerned the following:

1) He was never quite as good following the first Ali fight or the Foreman fight.

2) Ali was allowed to get away with the clinching behind the head.

3) If all three Frazier fights were 12 rounds, Ali would have likely taken all three.


Also, I dont think Ali really needed that clinching to win the second Frazier fight. In fight three, the ref Carlos Padilla stamped it out early.......and Ali clearly won that fight, so I dont think it is that conclusive.

Ali was in very good shape and his movement and combinations were excellent in fight 2, he certainly deserved the victory.

JAB5239
08-15-2010, 04:49 AM
So why should the commission put unfit ropes ?

Exactly. Dundee had no influence on the ring besides the negotiations. To think he had anything to do with it is absurd, especially without an speck of proof.

Stone Roses!
08-15-2010, 05:09 AM
Fraziers problems in fight two concerned the following:

1) He was never quite as good following the first Ali fight or the Foreman fight.

2) Ali was allowed to get away with the clinching behind the head.

3) If all three Frazier fights were 12 rounds, Ali would have likely taken all three.


Also, I dont think Ali really needed that clinching to win the second Frazier fight. In fight three, the ref Carlos Padilla stamped it out early.......and Ali clearly won that fight, so I dont think it is that conclusive.

Ali was in very good shape and his movement and combinations were excellent in fight 2, he certainly deserved the victory.
Great post.

frankenfrank
08-15-2010, 08:05 AM
Learn to read then learn about boxing, this is the post you learnt it from, correct?



Where in that post does it mention Dundee bringing the ropes with him?

Now would you like me to post some further links from Dundee etc about him attempting to tighten the ropes?

But Foreman did win the weigh in so it wasn't all bad :)

Now I see , 16 foot rings could not have fitting ropes.
All 16 foot rings in history had 20 foot rings' ropes on them , why should the Zaire ring be the exception ?

And yes , it was that post I learned it from.
Note it differs from Dundee's version on On The Ropes in which he claimed it was that damned heat that loosened them . I think it's where he admitted , intentionally or not , that he had access to the ropes themselves.

GJC
08-15-2010, 09:02 AM
Now I see , 16 foot rings could not have fitting ropes.
All 16 foot rings in history had 20 foot rings' ropes on them , why should the Zaire ring be the exception ?

OK, lets try this slowly, did Dundee supply the ropes? Maybe you have a receipt for excess luggage for him? No?
So how about Zaire having zero experience putting on a boxing match messed up, think that could be a scenario?



And yes , it was that post I learned it from.
Note it differs from Dundee's version on On The Ropes in which he claimed it was that damned heat that loosened them . I think it's where he admitted , intentionally or not , that he had access to the ropes themselves.
OK step two, Dundee who probably being a veteran of 100s of boxing matches guessed that rather than it being incompetance to put 20 foot ropes on a 16 foot ring he assumed it was the heat that loosened them?
OK Dundee had access to the ropes so did Foreman's team and here's another little morsel they had access to each other's dressing room before the fight, they even could check the other fighters wrappings!!!

So to summarise:

1) I think you will concede that Dundee didn't put 20 foot ropes on a 16 foot ring?
2) You have zero proof that Dundee loosened the ropes and in fact in probability had he have loosed the already loose ropes chances are they would have been laying on the floor.
3) Considering that Dundee had no idea that Ali was going to do rope a dope and in fact spent most of the fight screaming at Ali to get off the ropes then we can assume that he didn't loosen the ropes as they would have given his fighter zero advantage.

OK as you are determined to cast a cloud on this victory as it proves beyond doubt that Ali would have easily tackled the BIG Klitshko brothers want to have a go with Budini Brown's allegations that Foreman was drugged?

frankenfrank
08-15-2010, 11:37 AM
OK, lets try this slowly, did Dundee supply the ropes? Maybe you have a receipt for excess luggage for him? No?

I don't know about this. Why do you think you know ?

So how about Zaire having zero experience putting on a boxing match messed up, think that could be a scenario?

Why was the fight held in Zaire really ? not enough demand for the fight in America ? not even in the UK ?


OK step two, Dundee who probably being a veteran of 100s of boxing matches guessed that rather than being incompetant enough to put 20 foot ropes on a 16 foot ring it was the heat that loosened them?

Either someone loosened the ropes , or someone put unfit ropes , still it effected the outcome the critical way it did.


OK Dundee had access to the ropes so did Foreman's team and here's another little morsel they had access to each other's dressing room before the fight, they even could check the other fighters wrappings!!!

So to summarise:

1) I think you will concede that Dundee didn't put 20 foot ropes on a 20 foot ring?
2) You have zero proof that Dundee loosened the ropes and in fact in probability had he have loosed the already loose ropes chances are they would have been laying on the floor.

You mean 16 foot ring ? Dundee or someone else by either Dundee's or King's
"supervision" made it sure that the ropes will be loose , this way or another.


3) Considering that Dundee had no idea that Ali was going to do rope a dope and in fact spent most of the fight screaming at Ali to get off the ropes then we can assume that he didn't loosen the ropes as they would have given his fighter zero advantage.

Sure , this one could have won in court.


OK as you are determined to cast a cloud on this victory as it proves beyond doubt that Ali would have easily tackled the BIG Klitshko brothers want to have a go with Budini Brown's allegations that Foreman was drugged?
I don't know if Foreman was drugged or not. I do know how the ropes effected the fight , fact.

GJC
08-15-2010, 12:17 PM
I don't know about this. Why do you think you know ?

OK what do you think was the most likely:
1) Someone from the WBC/WBA supplied/arranged the ropes, and even after putting on countless boxing matches made a mistake?
2) Angelo Dundee had to supply the ropes as Dick Sadler had agreed to supply the canvas?
3) Someone from the stadium in Zaire, who had no real experience of putting on a boxing event, supplied the ropes?


Why was the fight held in Zaire really ? not enough demand for the fight in America ? not even in the UK ?

"The event was one of Don King's first ventures as a professional boxing promoter. He managed to get both Ali and Foreman to sign separate contracts saying they would fight for him if he could get $5 million to be their pay. However, King did not have the money. So he began looking for an outside country to sponsor the event Zaire's president Mobutu SÚsÚ Seko asked for the fight to be held in his country, eager for the publicity such a high-profile event would bring"
From wikipedia but accurate

Either someone loosened the ropes , or someone put unfit ropes , still it effected the outcome the critical way it did.

How critically it effected the outcome is a matter of opinion but lets say the ropes were loose the weather was humid and Ali adapted his game plan accordingly? That is cheating or being the smarter fighter?


You mean 16 foot ring ? Dundee or someone else by either Dundee's or King's
"supervision" made it sure that the ropes will be loose , this way or another.

My apologies 16 foot ring. So ticking it off you have zero proof that Dundee or anyone under his supervision loosened the ropes and in fact it was in Dundee's interest to tighten the ropes as he indeed did.
King was not the force in boxing then that he was now as it was his start and in all liklelyhood at the time the opinion was he would be broke after this promotion. Also it was in King's interest that Foreman won the fight as he knew that with Elijah Muhammad around he would never get his claws into Ali like he could potentially with Foreman.



Sure , this one could have won in court.

We agree or are you being ironic?


I don't know if Foreman was drugged or not. I do know how the ropes effected the fight , fact.
Foreman wasn't drugged and you have an opinion on how the ropes effected the fight not a fact. What you also do not have is any facts or indeed logical opinion that Ali or anyone in his camp loosened the ropes.

Ziggy Stardust
08-15-2010, 12:51 PM
OK what do you think was the most likely:
1) Someone from the WBC/WBA supplied/arranged the ropes, and even after putting on countless boxing matches made a mistake?
2) Angelo Dundee had to supply the ropes as Dick Sadler had agreed to supply the canvas?
3) Someone from the stadium in Zaire, who had no real experience of putting on a boxing event, supplied the ropes?

"The event was one of Don King's first ventures as a professional boxing promoter. He managed to get both Ali and Foreman to sign separate contracts saying they would fight for him if he could get $5 million to be their pay. However, King did not have the money. So he began looking for an outside country to sponsor the event Zaire's president Mobutu SÚsÚ Seko asked for the fight to be held in his country, eager for the publicity such a high-profile event would bring"
From wikipedia but accurate

How critically it effected the outcome is a matter of opinion but lets say the ropes were loose the weather was humid and Ali adapted his game plan accordingly? That is cheating or being the smarter fighter?

My apologies 16 foot ring. So ticking it off you have zero proof that Dundee or anyone under his supervision loosened the ropes and in fact it was in Dundee's interest to tighten the ropes as he indeed did.
King was not the force in boxing then that he was now as it was his start and in all liklelyhood at the time the opinion was he would be broke after this promotion. Also it was in King's interest that Foreman won the fight as he knew that with Elijah Muhammad around he would never get his claws into Ali like he could potentially with Foreman.

We agree or are you being ironic?

Foreman wasn't drugged and you have an opinion on how the ropes effected the fight not a fact. What you also do not have is any facts or indeed logical opinion that Ali or anyone in his camp loosened the ropes.

Of course, he isn't really seeking to actually make sense: That isn't the goal! It's all about trying to discredit a fighter whom he dislikes because his personally favorites from recent years don't compare favorably to him.....hence his rabid support for MagicMan's smear thread about Ali :)

Poet

CarlosG815
08-15-2010, 01:15 PM
I just heard an interview where Joe Frazier said that the judges were paid off in his 2nd fight against Muhammad Ali.Frazier said that Angelo Dundee and Ali's people and the black muslims paid off the judges.Frazier said that he won the fight and only the judges being paid off gave Muhammad Ali the victory.

Frazier also said that he was ahead after 14 rounds in the Trilla' in Manilla'.But that Ali's popularity influenced the judges.

I wonder what Smokin' Joe is smoking these days.

Joe's become quite a character in his old age. He is punch drunk and always talks conspiracy talk in interviews. At the time though he seemed to acknowledge his defeat and was more humble.

I think he just has loose marbles so you can't really take anything he says with more than a grain of salt nowadays.

frankenfrank
08-15-2010, 02:04 PM
OK what do you think was the most likely:
1) Someone from the WBC/WBA supplied/arranged the ropes, and even after putting on countless boxing matches made a mistake?
2) Angelo Dundee had to supply the ropes as Dick Sadler had agreed to supply the canvas?
3) Someone from the stadium in Zaire, who had no real experience of putting on a boxing event, supplied the ropes?

An investigation should have been issued and the fight should have been declared a NC / ND.
You can't even see a criminal offense when it is right in front of you recorded in color and 480p.


"The event was one of Don King's first ventures as a professional boxing promoter. He managed to get both Ali and Foreman to sign separate contracts saying they would fight for him if he could get $5 million to be their pay. However, King did not have the money. So he began looking for an outside country to sponsor the event Zaire's president Mobutu SÚsÚ Seko asked for the fight to be held in his country, eager for the publicity such a high-profile event would bring"
From wikipedia but accurate

So you explained this.
But what is the connection between the contracts and the sponsorship by Mobutu ?

How critically it effected the outcome is a matter of opinion but lets say the ropes were loose the weather was humid and Ali adapted his game plan accordingly? That is cheating or being the smarter fighter?

You mean if the ropes were tight ?
No other game plan could have worked for Ali for 15 rounds , he would have succumbed to the pressure long before , Foreman was no Frazier.

My apologies 16 foot ring. So ticking it off you have zero proof that Dundee or anyone under his supervision loosened the ropes and in fact it was in Dundee's interest to tighten the ropes as he indeed did.

Dundee's fairy tales and shouts during the fight do not weaken none of my claims , it was just a well executed criminal plan.

King was not the force in boxing then that he was now as it was his start and in all liklelyhood at the time the opinion was he would be broke after this promotion. Also it was in King's interest that Foreman won the fight as he knew that with Elijah Muhammad around he would never get his claws into Ali like he could potentially with Foreman.

Maybe you are true here , only maybe , even a rookie can commit successful crimes , and who knows King's entire interests except of himself ?


We agree or are you being ironic?

Was ironic.


Foreman wasn't drugged and you have an opinion on how the ropes effected the fight not a fact. What you also do not have is any facts or indeed logical opinion that Ali or anyone in his camp loosened the ropes.
Either someone from his camp , or someone hired or pursued by his camp.

Toney616
08-15-2010, 02:37 PM
Joe's become quite a character in his old age. He is punch drunk and always talks conspiracy talk in interviews. At the time though he seemed to acknowledge his defeat and was more humble.
To the best of my knowledge Joe never accpted either of his defeats to Ali. You should read the ghosts of Manila by Mark Kram.

I think he just has loose marbles so you can't really take anything he says with more than a grain of salt nowadays.
I think his mental faculties are intact, its just the fact that he never forgave Ali for what he did to him.

Toney616
08-15-2010, 02:42 PM
No other game plan could have worked for Ali for 15 rounds , he would have succumbed to the pressure long before , Foreman was no Frazier.

I take it you havent seen Hopkins vs Pavlik, Margarito vs Mosley or Foreman vs Qawi?

GJC
08-15-2010, 02:42 PM
An investigation should have been issued and the fight should have been declared a NC / ND.
You can't even see a criminal offense when it is right in front of you recorded in color and 480p.

Criminal offense? :) Kind of getting a little excited there. Not too au fait on the laws of Zaire so not sure what kind of sentence would be handed down for it!

So you explained this.
But what is the connection between the contracts and the sponsorship by Mobutu ?

Mobutu had the money to put up front to secure Ali and Foreman's signatures on the contract which then led to the fight. King did not even have seed money to get the fight underway.

You mean if the ropes were tight ?
No other game plan could have worked for Ali for 15 rounds , he would have succumbed to the pressure long before , Foreman was no Frazier.

This is 100% hindsight no one would have predicted that this game plan would work so who is to say that something else wouldn't work.
Ali was no Frazier

Dundee's fairy tales and shouts during the fight do not weaken none of my claims , it was just a well executed criminal plan.

Criminal plan :) You are really revealing your agenda now! Dundee was there what he says has more than a ring of truth, the only fairy tales are your claims.

Maybe you are true here , only maybe , even a rookie can commit successful crimes , and who knows King's entire interests except of himself ?

King is the rookie? So from what you say you admit that it is unlikely that King's best interests were served by Ali winning? So how would it be a successful "crime"?

Was ironic.

You don't know enough to attempt irony. So you'll have to explain your point less.

Either someone from his camp , or someone hired or pursued by his camp.
OK, Budini Brown who claimed that Foreman was drugged to earn a few $$$ for a bottle of Bourbon didn't claim this. Dundee didn't loosen them so who do you have doing it? As for hiring someone, by now they would have spent that money and sold the story but we are still waiting for the "truth" to come out. "Pursued by his camp" you think they chased someone through the jungle to coerce them into loosening the ropes? Please elaborate your criminal case might come to fruition :)

Ali isn't in the best of health can we just pretend that Wlad would beat him because he is so BIG and not send Ali to prison?

frankenfrank
08-15-2010, 03:48 PM
Criminal offense? :) Kind of getting a little excited there. Not too au fait on the laws of Zaire so not sure what kind of sentence would be handed down for it!

You should really go as far as embracing the Mobutu Sese Seko regime laws to legalize what Ali's team/promoter/supporters did there.

Mobutu had the money to put up front to secure Ali and Foreman's signatures on the contract which then led to the fight. King did not even have seed money to get the fight underway.

OK.

This is 100% hindsight no one would have predicted that this game plan would work so who is to say that something else wouldn't work.
Ali was no Frazier

Fact is they needed that plot to have Ali winning.

Criminal plan :) You are really revealing your agenda now! Dundee was there what he says has more than a ring of truth, the only fairy tales are your claims.

No one denies the Ropes helped Ali to win , but Claytons like yourself will claim Ali would have always knows and every other option is just a wrong opinion. If Ali could have won otherwise he would not have used the rope-a-dope , if he used the rope-a-dope on tighter ropes , he would have really been battered en route to his first stoppage loss that would have brought descendants if Ali would have decided to continue fighting afterward.


King is the rookie? So from what you say you admit that it is unlikely that King's best interests were served by Ali winning? So how would it be a successful "crime"?

I already wrote I don't know all of King's motives and neither do you.

You don't know enough to attempt irony. So you'll have to explain your point less.

You mean more ?
I explained it fully and your claims about what would have been are less realistic than mine because mine rely on what happened and your rely on the mere belief in Ali's capabilities that were never put to the same test again , as he avoided a rematch with Foreman unlike he did with almost every other contender of his time. Foreman , as a world champion and the most dominant fighter of their era , before and after , deserved more than just a contender.

OK, Budini Brown who claimed that Foreman was drugged to earn a few $$$ for a bottle of Bourbon didn't claim this. Dundee didn't loosen them so who do you have doing it? As for hiring someone, by now they would have spent that money and sold the story but we are still waiting for the "truth" to come out. "Pursued by his camp" you think they chased someone through the jungle to coerce them into loosening the ropes? Please elaborate your criminal case might come to fruition :)

Ali isn't in the best of health can we just pretend that Wlad would beat him because he is so BIG and not send Ali to prison?
I meant convinced someone to do it for them , for the obvious reasons you can find on youtube.

boxing boy
08-15-2010, 04:26 PM
The judges and referee scored the fight 8-4,7-4-1,6-5-1

The referee made a big mistake in the 2nd round when Ali hurt Frazier badly,and then backed Frazier into the corner,THEN.....HE THOUGHT HE HEARD THE BELL,and sent both fighters to there corners when there was still about 20 seconds left in the round.

We will never know what would have happened.Frazier was in the corner and hurt badly.Ali was getting ready to throw punches at the badly hurt Frazier,but the referee stopped the action.

Anyway,Muhammad Ali went on to win 8-4,7-4-1,6-5-1

boxing boy
08-15-2010, 04:36 PM
Dundee did loosen the ropes ! he did it by putting a big ring's ropes in the small one. boxingboy is d one whom i learned this from and this is his thread , so this is d place 4u to verify it by asking it. Of course boxingboy , as a Clayton will deny/excuse and twist reality only to make Ali , Dundee and Don King seem innocent.

The ropes were loose because they were fighting in a small 16 foot ring.Most Championship fights are in 20-24 foot rings.Did Foreman's trainers make the 16 foot ring?

Let me ask you a question.....If you were George Foreman,would you want to fight Muhammad Ali in a 16 foot ring with a very soft padded canvas and loose ropes ,or a 20-24 foot ring with tight ropes and a fast canvas?

Ziggy Stardust
08-15-2010, 04:51 PM
Criminal offense? :) Kind of getting a little excited there. Not too au fait on the laws of Zaire so not sure what kind of sentence would be handed down for it!

Mobutu had the money to put up front to secure Ali and Foreman's signatures on the contract which then led to the fight. King did not even have seed money to get the fight underway.

This is 100% hindsight no one would have predicted that this game plan would work so who is to say that something else wouldn't work.
Ali was no Frazier

Criminal plan :) You are really revealing your agenda now! Dundee was there what he says has more than a ring of truth, the only fairy tales are your claims.

King is the rookie? So from what you say you admit that it is unlikely that King's best interests were served by Ali winning? So how would it be a successful "crime"?

You don't know enough to attempt irony. So you'll have to explain your point less.

OK, Budini Brown who claimed that Foreman was drugged to earn a few $$$ for a bottle of Bourbon didn't claim this. Dundee didn't loosen them so who do you have doing it? As for hiring someone, by now they would have spent that money and sold the story but we are still waiting for the "truth" to come out. "Pursued by his camp" you think they chased someone through the jungle to coerce them into loosening the ropes? Please elaborate your criminal case might come to fruition :)

Ali isn't in the best of health can we just pretend that Wlad would beat him because he is so BIG and not send Ali to prison?

Funny how these Soviets always think everything is a result of some sort of "plot" or "conspiracy".....might have something to do with the fact that Communists are always plotting and conspiring so they assume everyone else is too ;)

Poet

frankenfrank
08-15-2010, 04:55 PM
The ropes were loose because they were fighting in a small 16 foot ring.Most Championship fights are in 20-24 foot rings.Did Foreman's trainers make the 16 foot ring?

Second time I am asking you this question since you ignored it the last time :
Should the ropes fit to the ring ? yes or no ?

Let me ask you a question.....If you were George Foreman,would you want to fight Muhammad Ali in a 16 foot ring with a very soft padded canvas and loose ropes ,or a 20-24 foot ring with tight ropes and a fast canvas?
Did someone offer him these 2 options ?
I don't know what I would have chosen.

frankenfrank
08-15-2010, 04:57 PM
Funny how these Soviets always think everything is a result of some sort of "plot" or "conspiracy".....might have something to do with the fact that Communists are always plotting and conspiring so they assume everyone else is too ;)

Poet

Now he made a commy out of me.

Vadrigar.
08-15-2010, 04:57 PM
Of course, he isn't really seeking to actually make sense: That isn't the goal! It's all about trying to discredit a fighter whom he dislikes because his personally favorites from recent years don't compare favorably to him.....hence his rabid support for MagicMan's smear thread about Ali :)

Poet

This bullsh*t about Dundee loosening the ropes is all part of his agenda of making BIG fighters look superior to comparatively smaller ones. In this case he was proven wrong with an eight round knockout of a bigger fighter, but the retard makes fallacious excuses to keep consistent with his principle.

For something to be true (technically a tautology), it must hold true for every example. For something to be false it only needs to be demonstrated as wrong in one example. That's how pure mathematical logic works.

But this is one of many examples in which his agenda is exposed.

http://www.estadao.com.br/fotos/GeorgeForeman_MuhammadAli_boxe_30101974_1_600.jpg

Vadrigar.
08-15-2010, 04:59 PM
Funny how these Soviets always think everything is a result of some sort of "plot" or "conspiracy".....might have something to do with the fact that Communists are always plotting and conspiring so they assume everyone else is too ;)

Poet

Yeah, it's possible some of these trolls could be communists.

Ziggy Stardust
08-15-2010, 04:59 PM
Now he made a commy out of me.

If the kransky shoesky fits wear it :)

Poet

GJC
08-16-2010, 09:48 AM
You should really go as far as embracing the Mobutu Sese Seko regime laws to legalize what Ali's team/promoter/supporters did there.


I'm sure even in Zaire they like a little proof


Fact is they needed that plot to have Ali winning.

Again an ill informed guess based on hindsight.


No one denies the Ropes helped Ali to win , but Claytons like yourself will claim Ali would have always knows and every other option is just a wrong opinion. If Ali could have won otherwise he would not have used the rope-a-dope , if he used the rope-a-dope on tighter ropes , he would have really been battered en route to his first stoppage loss that would have brought descendants if Ali would have decided to continue fighting afterward.

Considering how well Ali fought off the ropes, if he would have used the rope a dope on tighter ropes it would have helped him. Watch the fight. Foreman landed enough punches on Ali to KO him if he could. If Foreman wanted to wear Ali down he needed to work the body more, Ali leaning back offered his body more but Foreman head hunted. Watch the fight.

I already wrote I don't know all of King's motives and neither do you.

No but I can make an educated guess on what didn't suit King and it is a guess which you can't chip away at because it is logical.
[QUOTE=frankenfrank;9044843
You mean more ?
[/QUOTE]

No I meant less as in pointless as is your entire argument.

GJC
08-16-2010, 09:49 AM
Now he made a commy out of me.
Poet thinks everyone is a commie :)

boxing boy
08-16-2010, 04:44 PM
Second time I am asking you this question since you ignored it the last time :
Should the ropes fit to the ring ? yes or no ?

Did someone offer him these 2 options ?
I don't know what I would have chosen.

For the 10th time....The ropes should fit the ring.If your fighting in a 10 foot ring,you should not use ropes from a 12 foot ring.

The problem is there are no ropes for a 16 foot ring,because there are no 16 foot rings for Championship fights.Championship rings are always 20-24 feet.Especially in HEAVYWEIGHT championship fights.

Foreman got a big gift in getting a small 16 foot ring.Foreman's trainer and manager tried to cheat getting a small ring,but Foreman got KO'd anyway.That's what you get for trying to cheat.Lol

This thread is about Joe Frazier saying that the judges got paid off in his 2nd fight with Muhammad Ali.It seems only Frazier thought he won that fight.The judges and referee scored the fight 8-4,7-4-1,6-5-1....All for Muhammad Ali.And 99% of boxing fans and boxing writers thought Muhammad Ali won!

frankenfrank
08-16-2010, 05:16 PM
For the 10th time....The ropes should fit the ring.If your fighting in a 10 foot ring,you should not use ropes from a 12 foot ring.

The problem is there are no ropes for a 16 foot ring,because there are no 16 foot rings for Championship fights.Championship rings are always 20-24 feet.Especially in HEAVYWEIGHT championship fights.

So why didn't they use non championship ring ropes ?
Whose responsibility was it ?

Foreman got a big gift in getting a small 16 foot ring.Foreman's trainer and manager tried to cheat getting a small ring,but Foreman got KO'd anyway.That's what you get for trying to cheat.Lol

Foreman and his manager and trainer did not try to cheat.
If Ali or anyone influential enough from his team thought it was unfair , thay could have rejected the fight .

This thread is about Joe Frazier saying that the judges got paid off in his 2nd fight with Muhammad Ali.It seems only Frazier thought he won that fight.The judges and referee scored the fight 8-4,7-4-1,6-5-1....All for Muhammad Ali.And 99% of boxing fans and boxing writers thought Muhammad Ali won!
About this I can write this : when I am in the mood to see full 12 rounds , Ali is not my first choice nor my tenth .
True , Holmes is even worse , but Ali is nowhere in my top priority , someday I may watch more of his more famous fights , but until then I hope to get to see better fights instead.

frankenfrank
08-16-2010, 05:22 PM
I'm sure even in Zaire they like a little proof

The proof is on youtube

Again an ill informed guess based on hindsight.

Based on watching the fight.

Considering how well Ali fought off the ropes, if he would have used the rope a dope on tighter ropes it would have helped him.

No , it would have disturbed him and got him stopped.

Watch the fight.

Did I do , at least 3 times .

Foreman landed enough punches on Ali to KO him if he could.

If the ropes were tighter and would not have allowed him to evade some of the punches and to absorb the ones he did not evade.

If Foreman wanted to wear Ali down he needed to work the body more, Ali leaning back offered his body more but Foreman head hunted. Watch the fight.

Foreman did hit the body , but the ropes absorbed a crucial part of the punches' energy.
Watched the fight at least 3 times.

No but I can make an educated guess on what didn't suit King and it is a guess which you can't chip away at because it is logical.


No I meant less as in pointless as is your entire argument.

boxing boy
08-16-2010, 05:50 PM
So why didn't they use non championship ring ropes ?
Whose responsibility was it ?

Foreman and his manager and trainer did not try to cheat.
If Ali or anyone influential enough from his team thought it was unfair , thay could have rejected the fight .

About this I can write this : when I am in the mood to see full 12 rounds , Ali is not my first choice nor my tenth .
True , Holmes is even worse , but Ali is nowhere in my top priority , someday I may watch more of his more famous fights , but until then I hope to get to see better fights instead.

Yes Foreman and his trainers(Sadler&Archie Moore)and manager did try to cheat.WAIT,they did cheat!! They got a small 16 foot ring for Foreman.Well,you know what they say about cheaters,Lol They got what they deserved for cheating,Lol....You don't reject a fight the day of the fight!! Ali and Dundee didn't find out it was a 16 foot ring until THE DAY OF THE FIGHT!!! Ali had been waiting 7 years to regain the Heavyweight Championship of the World!! When Dundee found out the day of the fight,he told Ali about it and Ali said "Well,then we have to go with what we got".He wasn't going to reject the fight with 50,000 people with there tickets,and millions of people around the world with pay per view tickets!! Ali thought he could beat Foreman in a 16 foot ring,and he did!! But that doesn't change the fact that Foreman and his trainers and manager CHEATED getting a 16 foot ring.Those CHEATERS got what they deserved when Ali KO'd George Foreman,and regained the HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP OF THE WORLD!!!

Yes,you should watch the 2nd Ali-Frazier fight.Frazier said he won all 12 rounds!!! Now he says the judges were paid off.He sounds something like you,Lol:baby:

Southpaw Stinger
08-16-2010, 05:53 PM
History is full of cunts who feel they were hard done by. The vast majority just ain't humble enough to admit they were bettered.

boxing boy
08-16-2010, 06:07 PM
The proof is on youtube

Based on watching the fight.

No , it would have disturbed him and got him stopped.

Did I do , at least 3 times .

If the ropes were tighter and would not have allowed him to evade some of the punches and to absorb the ones he did not evade.

Foreman did hit the body , but the ropes absorbed a crucial part of the punches' energy.
Watched the fight at least 3 times.

I suggest you watch the fight again.Muhammad Ali FOUGHT OFF THE ROPES!! And he beat Foreman to the punch again and again.Ali only "layed on the ropes" in the 5th round.The rest of the fight he FOUGHT OFF THE ROPES!!!

Muhammad Ali not only fought off the ropes,but he was blocking most of Foreman's punches.Watch the fight again....Foreman was not throwing many body punches.Muhammad Ali was talking to him the entire fight,and making Foreman mad and thus trying to shut Ali's mouth and throwing most of his punches to Ali's head,which Ali easily blocked.Have you even seen this fight? I don't think so.Muhammad Ali FOUGHT OFF THE ROPES,and landed many good hard right hands!! Then while fighting off the ropes he spun Foreman around and had Foreman on the ropes!! Then started punching Foreman,and 5 punches later he KNOCKED OUT George Foreman!! Ali didn't "lay on the ropes" he fought off the ropes!! That shoots down your delusional theory about Ali "laying on the ropes" and not getting full impact from Foreman's punches.Just keep looking for more excuses,Lol

frankenfrank
08-16-2010, 06:22 PM
Yes Foreman and his trainers(Sadler&Archie Moore)and manager did try to cheat.WAIT,they did cheat!! They got a small 16 foot ring for Foreman.Well,you know what they say about cheaters,Lol They got what they deserved for cheating,Lol....You don't reject a fight the day of the fight!! Ali and Dundee didn't find out it was a 16 foot ring until THE DAY OF THE FIGHT!!! Ali had been waiting 7 years to regain the Heavyweight Championship of the World!! When Dundee found out the day of the fight,he told Ali about it and Ali said "Well,then we have to go with what we got".He wasn't going to reject the fight with 50,000 people with there tickets,and millions of people around the world with pay per view tickets!! Ali thought he could beat Foreman in a 16 foot ring,and he did!! But that doesn't change the fact that Foreman and his trainers and manager CHEATED getting a 16 foot ring.Those CHEATERS got what they deserved when Ali KO'd George Foreman,and regained the HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP OF THE WORLD!!!

Yes,you should watch the 2nd Ali-Frazier fight.Frazier said he won all 12 rounds!!! Now he says the judges were paid off.He sounds something like you,Lol:baby:
Requesting a 16 ft ring is not cheating .
Who said Ali and Dundee learned about the ring's size only 24 hours before the fight ? Dundee ? at On The Ropes ? great ! I believe whatever Dundee says !

Fact is the ropes saved Ali , fact is Ali never beat Foreman under legitimate conditions , fact is Ali never rematched Foreman .

boxing boy
08-16-2010, 06:38 PM
Requesting a 16 ft ring is not cheating .
Who said Ali and Dundee learned about the ring's size only 24 hours before the fight ? Dundee ? at On The Ropes ? great ! I believe whatever Dundee says !

Fact is the ropes saved Ali , fact is Ali never beat Foreman under legitimate conditions , fact is Ali never rematched Foreman .

Requesting? Who said they requested a 16 foot ring? They brought in a 16 foot ring from a local boxing club!! They CHEATED!!

If Ali(Or Dundee) would have learned about the 16 foot ring "before" the day of the fight they would have protested about it!! In fact,the prelim fighters complained about the size of the ring!!

Fact is the small ring didn't save Foreman.Stop crying about it,your man got beat and KNOCKED OUT!!! Foreman was a 5-1 favorite,and most predicted he would KO Ali within' 3 rounds.Even after CHEATING Foreman got KO'd,Lol:baby:

Ziggy Stardust
08-16-2010, 06:54 PM
Just when I think Frankenfrank can't get any more retarded he proves me wrong.....Wait! It's really just a conspiracy among us non-retarded people plotting to keep window-lickers like him down :hahahaha9:

Poet

Vadrigar.
08-17-2010, 07:25 AM
Just when I think Frankenfrank can't get any more retarded he proves me wrong.....Wait! It's really just a conspiracy among us non-retarded people plotting to keep window-lickers like him down :hahahaha9:

Poet

Now the tables have been turned. When Foremans people are accused of cheating with the ring the retard denies it, but he happily takes the bait when the rope issue is bought up. What an inconsistent p*ssy.

http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/11421.gif

GJC
08-17-2010, 10:05 AM
I suggest you watch the fight again.Muhammad Ali FOUGHT OFF THE ROPES!! And he beat Foreman to the punch again and again.Ali only "layed on the ropes" in the 5th round.The rest of the fight he FOUGHT OFF THE ROPES!!!

Muhammad Ali not only fought off the ropes,but he was blocking most of Foreman's punches.Watch the fight again....Foreman was not throwing many body punches.Muhammad Ali was talking to him the entire fight,and making Foreman mad and thus trying to shut Ali's mouth and throwing most of his punches to Ali's head,which Ali easily blocked.Have you even seen this fight? I don't think so.Muhammad Ali FOUGHT OFF THE ROPES,and landed many good hard right hands!! Then while fighting off the ropes he spun Foreman around and had Foreman on the ropes!! Then started punching Foreman,and 5 punches later he KNOCKED OUT George Foreman!! Ali didn't "lay on the ropes" he fought off the ropes!! That shoots down your delusional theory about Ali "laying on the ropes" and not getting full impact from Foreman's punches.Just keep looking for more excuses,Lol

Exactly, but if someone doesn't want to see then they wont

sandysandara
08-18-2010, 05:03 AM
History is full of cunts who feel they were hard done by. The vast majority just ain't humble enough to admit they were bettered.

Vadrigar.
08-18-2010, 05:37 PM
Exactly, but if someone doesn't want to see then they wont

Judging by his posts on the fight I don't think he has.

frankenfrank
08-18-2010, 05:40 PM
Requesting? Who said they requested a 16 foot ring? They brought in a 16 foot ring from a local boxing club!! They CHEATED!!

So why didn't anyone else brought a ring for the fight ?
Not that this was a cheat whatsoever.

If Ali(Or Dundee) would have learned about the 16 foot ring "before" the day of the fight they would have protested about it!! In fact,the prelim fighters complained about the size of the ring!!
Fact is the small ring didn't save Foreman.Stop crying about it,your man got beat and KNOCKED OUT!!! Foreman was a 5-1 favorite,and most predicted he would KO Ali within' 3 rounds.Even after CHEATING Foreman got KO'd,Lol:baby:
But still the ropes were loose , I will watch the fight again and note what you claimed (about Ali only using the ropes in the 5th) , currently I watched other fights which I haven't seen before , but even if you are true and Ali used the ropes only for 1 round or even 20 seconds , it still gave him the crucial rest he needed which he could not have gotten otherwise , well , maybe spitting the mouthpiece or having a problems with his gloves could help ..

boxing boy
08-18-2010, 06:25 PM
So why didn't anyone else brought a ring for the fight ?
Not that this was a cheat whatsoever.

But still the ropes were loose , I will watch the fight again and note what you claimed (about Ali only using the ropes in the 5th) , currently I watched other fights which I haven't seen before , but even if you are true and Ali used the ropes only for 1 round or even 20 seconds , it still gave him the crucial rest he needed which he could not have gotten otherwise , well , maybe spitting the mouthpiece or having a problems with his gloves could help ..

On top of beating the "cheaters" in a small 16 foot ring,Ali also overcame the "cheaters" using a very soft padded canvas.The referre(Zack Clayton)said the canvas was padded so softly that there was no way that Ali could have danced.

So Foreman and his trainers CHEATED TWICE...A very soft padded ring canvas,so Ali couldn't dance.And the small 16 foot ring.But Ali still KO'd Foreman!! So enough of your crying and excuses,Lol

boxing boy
08-18-2010, 06:28 PM
The small 16 foot ring and the very softly padded ring canvas more than off-set the loose ropes.What part of the don't you understand?

See what happens to CHEATERS?:baby:

BattlingNelson
08-19-2010, 11:46 AM
Dundee did loosen the ropes ! he did it by putting a big ring's ropes in the small one. boxingboy is d one whom i learned this from and this is his thread , so this is d place 4u to verify it by asking it. Of course boxingboy , as a Clayton will deny/excuse and twist reality only to make Ali , Dundee and Don King seem innocent.
Do you have a credible source that says Dundee changed the ropes?

BattlingNelson
08-19-2010, 11:51 AM
Do you have a credible source that says Dundee changed the ropes?
Forget this post^^^^

I've read the guys posts in the thread now and I'm afraid my IQ dropped significantly in the proces. It was worse reading them than debating Horus.

Vadrigar.
08-19-2010, 12:35 PM
Forget this post^^^^

I've read the guys posts in the thread now and I'm afraid my IQ dropped significantly in the proces. It was worse reading them than debating Horus.

Logic is absent from his posts so there's no point. He'll stay a dumb ass regardless.

JAB5239
08-20-2010, 05:56 AM
Forget this post^^^^

I've read the guys posts in the thread now and I'm afraid my IQ dropped significantly in the proces. It was worse reading them than debating Horus.

Anyone who has fought or set up a boxing ring knows it is impossible to put 20' ropes on a 16' ring. You simply can't tighten them enough and they would be sagging dreadfully.

BattlingNelson
08-20-2010, 06:13 AM
Anyone who has fought or set up a boxing ring knows it is impossible to put 20' ropes on a 16' ring. You simply can't tighten them enough and they would be sagging dreadfully.
Yeah. The claim is pathetic.

You're right about the trolling in this section Jab. It has become much worse.