View Full Version : More Skilled, Duran Or Floyd


MeccaOfBoxing
08-12-2010, 05:26 PM
For pure skill??????

War Dinamita
08-12-2010, 05:27 PM
Floyd.

You can make an argument for Floyd as the most skilled boxer ever.

Steak
08-12-2010, 05:42 PM
I would say Duran, simply because Duran was someone who did not train a lot for his fights, and overall wasnt overwhelmingly athletic. Mayweather relies a lot on natural reflexes and perfect conditioning.
for Duran to have the kind of success he did without having huge physical advantages, he must have had a ton of skill.

Physical attributes and skill are two seperate things.

Barn
08-12-2010, 06:02 PM
Excellent post.

Miburo
08-12-2010, 06:05 PM
Clearly Mayweather. Duran was a very skilled fighter but he also had tremendous brawling instincts, he wasn't a purely skill-based fighter.

Ziggy Stardust
08-12-2010, 06:25 PM
You can make an argument for Floyd as the most skilled boxer ever.

And said argument can get laughed out of court too.

Poet

blaze778
08-12-2010, 06:31 PM
Floyd by a mile. Duran had good skill himself, but he loved to mix it up. That was his nature. And he had an iron chin, so he didn't mind walking through punches.

Duran in the best shape would have ran over Floyd. Well maybe not, but I think Duran would rough up Floyd and win a close, but clear UD.

Ziggy Stardust
08-12-2010, 06:33 PM
And why is it that people assume skill is only about running? :thinking9:

Poet

Tyson.
08-12-2010, 06:39 PM
Nothing against Duran hes a top fighter.

But Mayweathers skill set is the greatest of all time.

Ziggy Stardust
08-12-2010, 06:41 PM
Nothing against Duran hes a top fighter.

But Mayweathers skill set is the greatest of all time.

:bullsh1t9: Horsesh1t :floyd9:

MeccaOfBoxing
08-12-2010, 06:42 PM
:bullsh1t9: Horsesh1t :floyd9:

dont u think floyd is skilled man?

Ziggy Stardust
08-12-2010, 06:44 PM
dont u think floyd is skilled man?

Oh I think he's skilled.....I just object to flaming *****s proclaming him "the most skilled ever".....especially when he isn't even the most skilled in recent memory.

Poet

MeccaOfBoxing
08-12-2010, 06:46 PM
Oh I think he's skilled.....I just object to flaming *****s proclaming him "the most skilled ever".....especially when he isn't even the most skilled in recent memory.

Poet

fair enough man, do u like his style as a whole?

Ziggy Stardust
08-12-2010, 06:49 PM
fair enough man, do u like his style as a whole?

I'd rather watch paint dry. I felt the same way about Hector "Track Star" Camacho.....who I personally think should sue Floyd for stealing his fighting style and wardrobe.

Poet

MeccaOfBoxing
08-12-2010, 06:54 PM
I'd rather watch paint dry. I felt the same way about Hector "Track Star" Camacho.....who I personally think should sue Floyd for stealing his fighting style and wardrobe.

Poet

LMAO.....So don't you buy his PPV's or anything? He was exciting against Gatti, Manfredy, Corrales, Hatton.

Ziggy Stardust
08-12-2010, 06:56 PM
LMAO.....So don't you buy his PPV's or anything? He was exciting against Gatti, Manfredy, Corrales, Hatton.

Nope! I don't contribute a dime to his boatbuying fund :grin9: BTW, Gatti, Manfredy, and Corrales were all YEARS ago.....Hatton? Consider the opponent.

Poet

MeccaOfBoxing
08-12-2010, 06:59 PM
Nope! I don't contribute a dime to his boatbuying fund :grin9: BTW, Gatti, Manfredy, and Corrales were all YEARS ago.....Hatton? Consider the opponent.

Poet

so it's only recently you disliked his style, did you enjoy watching him at super featherweight?

Ziggy Stardust
08-12-2010, 07:06 PM
so it's only recently you disliked his style, did you enjoy watching him at super featherweight?

He was certainly less shy about letting his hands go back then. It's his pot-shot then run like fvck style since moving to Welter that I find particularly nauseating.

Poet

Steak
08-12-2010, 10:16 PM
Clearly Mayweather. Duran was a very skilled fighter but he also had tremendous brawling instincts, he wasn't a purely skill-based fighter.
Im just curious, how are 'brawling instincts' not considered skill? I know it sounds sarcastic, but I dont mean it like that, I just want to discuss it. Brawling isnt nearly as easy as it sounds, and unless youve got a big advantage in punch power or chin, brawling actually relies a lot on skill.

honestly, this may upset some people, but I think using your physical advantages(speed and reflexes in particular) to potshot on the outside takes much less skill than fighting in the pocket, where you have to intelligently predict your opponents next punches and defend accordingly...theres not enough time to just generically pull back out of range of every punch.(I mean this in broad terms, not particularly in a Duran-Mayweather comparison)


side note: I like watching Mayweather fight, its alwys fun to see such a talented fighter in the ring, even if he does put a lot of priority on fighting defensively.

Miburo
08-12-2010, 10:45 PM
Im just curious, how are 'brawling instincts' not considered skill? I know it sounds sarcastic, but I dont mean it like that, I just want to discuss it. Brawling isnt nearly as easy as it sounds, and unless youve got a big advantage in punch power or chin, brawling actually relies a lot on skill.

honestly, this may upset some people, but I think using your physical advantages(speed and reflexes in particular) to potshot on the outside takes much less skill than fighting in the pocket, where you have to intelligently predict your opponents next punches and defend accordingly...theres not enough time to just generically pull back out of range of every punch.(I mean this in broad terms, not particularly in a Duran-Mayweather comparison)


side note: I like watching Mayweather fight, its alwys fun to see such a talented fighter in the ring, even if he does put a lot of priority on fighting defensively.

I think what ultimately made him great at mixing it up was as much ingrained natural aggression, toughness, and speed as anything. The skills he learned in the gym just increased his effectiveness and turned him into a finished product. You don't think Duran had advantages in power and chin, especially at lightweight? He knocked down Iran Barkley at middleweight and easily weathered the bombs coming back at him. Duran was also much faster than anyone else I care to think of who fought in that style, especially in terms of hand speed. I'm not considering anything related to natural ability or athleticism, only learned skill sets. Mayweather uses the best of the old school technique - it takes athleticism to execute, but it isn't just pure athleticism like with RJJ, it's learned. Incidentally Mayweather can fight in the pocket any time he wants, he used to do it all the time at super featherweight.

Steak
08-12-2010, 10:58 PM
I think what ultimately made him great at mixing it up was as much ingrained natural aggression and toughness as anything. The skills he learned in the gym just increased his effectiveness and turned him into a finished product. You don't think Duran had advantages in power and chin, especially at lightweight? He knocked down Iran Barkley at middleweight and easily weathered the bombs coming back at him. I'm not considering anything related to natural ability or athleticism, only learned skill sets. Mayweather uses the best of the old school technique - it takes athleticism to execute, but it isn't just pure athleticism like with RJJ, it's learned. Incidentally Mayweather can fight in the pocket any time he wants, he used to do it all the time at super featherweight.I have no doubt at all about Mayweather's skill. Hes a near perfect blend of great physical attributes and well honed skills, in no way am I suggesting he gets away only with his rnatural gifts.

although Duran might have had some advantages in power at lightweight, he certainly didnt at WW, 154 or MW. I dont think anyone would say that Duran hit harder than Barkley, and yet Duran still 'outbrawled' him. Duran, while he did have a good chin, actually was very good at rolling with punches if you watch his fights closely...which is a prime example of why I dont ever recall Duran being cut, or even majorly bruised, in a fight.

and no one is born being a good fighter, because 'natural aggression' can easily be a huge weakness if it isnt used correctly. Duran may have started learning his skills in street fights out of the gym, but its still a developed skill.

Duran was someone who was still able to get a win over a top 5 Middleweight at 46 years old, when he obviously had no physical advantages at all...I simply dont see Mayweather able to pull off something like that.

them_apples
08-12-2010, 11:22 PM
Duran at his best I think has more skill than Floyd. Like others said, A lot of Floyd "skill" is just that he's faster than all of his opponents. He has a lot of skill but IMO Duran had more. Duran had incredible head-movement and his losses came when he was severely undersized.

Actually, without athletcism, Duran ranks up there on pure skill. Prime James Toney is another that springs to mind. Take away their speed and they are still good.

Take away Floyd speed and he'd never pull the trigger. Even Marquez showed great skill considering he's been out gunned in many of his fights.

JAB5239
08-13-2010, 02:47 AM
Floyd is incredibly skilled but this is much tougher to determine than just looking at each fighter. Duran's comp was so much better I have to lean towards him. Who knows how Floyd would have fared against the fighters Duran fought. Roberto's offense easily trumps Floyds in my opinion, and though I lean towards Floyd defensively, Durans is greatly under rated especially considering the fighters he fought.

talip bin osman
08-13-2010, 04:28 AM
Floyd is incredibly skilled but this is much tougher to determine than just looking at each fighter. Duran's comp was so much better I have to lean towards him. Who knows how Floyd would have fared against the fighters Duran fought. Roberto's offense easily trumps Floyds in my opinion, and though I lean towards Floyd defensively, Durans is greatly under rated especially considering the fighters he fought.

on the other hand i feel like if u pit duran against pbf's foes, duran would also sport exactly pbf's win-loss record... with more KOs most likely...

JAB5239
08-13-2010, 04:39 AM
on the other hand i feel like if u pit duran against pbf's foes, duran would also sport exactly pbf's win-loss record... with more KOs most likely...

I agree 100%!

One more round
08-13-2010, 04:39 AM
Very close. I may even go with Duran, seeing as Floyd is a much more gifted athlete than Duran, with a much rangier build, much faster, and even when he is the smaller guy, he has had a huge speed advantage and often hasn't had to give up a lot in the reach department. Duran on the other hand, once he sacrificed his strength advantage by moving up from 135, really had no physical advantages at all, and really relied on excellent technical ability coupled with his tenacious nature and tons of intelligence.

So two great skilled fighters, no doubt in the top few all time for skills, but Floyd is a better athlete, whereas Duran relied more greatly on his skill base.

JAB5239
08-13-2010, 04:43 AM
Very close. I may even go with Duran, seeing as Floyd is a much more gifted athlete than Duran, with a much rangier build, much faster, and even when he is the smaller guy, he has had a huge speed advantage and often hasn't had to give up a lot in the reach department. Duran on the other hand, once he sacrificed his strength advantage by moving up from 135, really had no physical advantages at all, and really relied on excellent technical ability coupled with his tenacious nature and tons of intelligence.

So two great skilled fighters, no doubt in the top few all time for skills, but Floyd is a better athlete, whereas Duran relied more greatly on his skill base.

Good points, good post!

BennyST
08-13-2010, 12:39 PM
I don't know. One thing that is strange is how an offensive fighter is immediately labeled less skilled because he comes forward and goes for the kill. I would pose the question 'Does it take more to skill to go all out on offense and take many risks while rarely getting hit and using the same 'old school' skills such as feints, rolling, slipping, countering etc etc or use those same skills while being purely defensive and only waiting for mistakes rather than making them happen?'

Think about when Whitaker went on the offensive. He was often dropped in those fights in which he fought particularly aggressive. I'm 100% certain that if Duran wanted to back up and fight defensively he would do it as well as any fighter. Hell, he walked straight at a bigger, younger ATG who was easily one of the fastest fighters ever and rarely got hit with a clean shot. Floyd also got hit a lot in his more aggressive fights.

I think a lot of the skill Duran uses is not seen as clearly. He short inside counters are a thing of beauty as are his feints. He used feints better than anyone in the game today by a country mile.

I'd suggest watching Duran against De Jesus in their third fight. Watch it closely and you'll come away with a very different point of view if you think Floyd is 'way more skilled'.

I don't know to be honest. I will say though that Duran's skill is less obviously noticeable to the untrained eye. Floyd's is very obvious to see because of the way he fights. Floyd is one of the best defensive counter punchers of recent times. Duran was one of the greatest fighters of all time period. He had the ability to do everything brilliantly. Defense, countering, offense, power, speed, feints, boxing blah blah blah.....Yet, most would see his fights and see a madman wading in. With Floyd you can see him sitting and waiting for the mistake. Staying away until it's made and then capatalising on it.

Their styles are too different to truly make a proper judgment. It's too hard to compare properly. Unless we can take into account the difference in style, which very few obviously are as noted by the 'Floyd easy lamo pwn', responses. Not only that but they both had different skills and used them differently. Duran used feints a hell of a lot better than Floyd. He also slipped punches just as well, but he did it coming forward.

It's a great question but very hard to answer I think.

wmute
08-13-2010, 03:09 PM
I don't know. One thing that is strange is how an offensive fighter is immediately labeled less skilled because he comes forward and goes for the kill. I would pose the question 'Does it take more to skill to go all out on offense and take many risks while rarely getting hit and using the same 'old school' skills such as feints, rolling, slipping, countering etc etc or use those same skills while being purely defensive and only waiting for mistakes rather than making them happen?'

Think about when Whitaker went on the offensive. He was often dropped in those fights in which he fought particularly aggressive. I'm 100% certain that if Duran wanted to back up and fight defensively he would do it as well as any fighter. Hell, he walked straight at a bigger, younger ATG who was easily one of the fastest fighters ever and rarely got hit with a clean shot. Floyd also got hit a lot in his more aggressive fights.

I think a lot of the skill Duran uses is not seen as clearly. He short inside counters are a thing of beauty as are his feints. He used feints better than anyone in the game today by a country mile.

I'd suggest watching Duran against De Jesus in their third fight. Watch it closely and you'll come away with a very different point of view if you think Floyd is 'way more skilled'.

I don't know to be honest. I will say though that Duran's skill is less obviously noticeable to the untrained eye. Floyd's is very obvious to see because of the way he fights. Floyd is one of the best defensive counter punchers of recent times. Duran was one of the greatest fighters of all time period. He had the ability to do everything brilliantly. Defense, countering, offense, power, speed, feints, boxing blah blah blah.....Yet, most would see his fights and see a madman wading in. With Floyd you can see him sitting and waiting for the mistake. Staying away until it's made and then capatalising on it.

Their styles are too different to truly make a proper judgment. It's too hard to compare properly. Unless we can take into account the difference in style, which very few obviously are as noted by the 'Floyd easy lamo pwn', responses. Not only that but they both had different skills and used them differently. Duran used feints a hell of a lot better than Floyd. He also slipped punches just as well, but he did it coming forward.

It's a great question but very hard to answer I think.

Pretty much Benny.

I would not agree that PBF gets hit *a lot* in his more aggressive fights. More? Yes. A lot? No way.

Anyways. "I don't know" is my answer too.

I recently rewatched Leonard-Duran, it is indeed an amazing performance also from a defensive standpoint. Crazy how Leonard in very little time was involved in two of the greatest performances I ever saw. His own against Hearns, and Duran's against him.

Ziggy Stardust
08-13-2010, 03:11 PM
Pretty much Benny.

I would not agree that PBF gets hit *a lot* in his more aggressive fights. More? Yes. A lot? No way.

Anyways. "I don't know" is my answer too.

I recently rewatched Leonard-Duran, it is indeed an amazing performance also from a defensive standpoint. Crazy how Leonard in very little time was involved in two of the greatest performances I ever saw. His own against Hearns, and Duran's against him.

It's a stereotype.....defensive fighters get labled "skilled" and offensive fighters get labled "unskilled brawlers". Like most stereotypes it's far from the truth.

Poet

GJC
08-13-2010, 03:46 PM
I don't know. One thing that is strange is how an offensive fighter is immediately labeled less skilled because he comes forward and goes for the kill. I would pose the question 'Does it take more to skill to go all out on offense and take many risks while rarely getting hit and using the same 'old school' skills such as feints, rolling, slipping, countering etc etc or use those same skills while being purely defensive and only waiting for mistakes rather than making them happen?'

Think about when Whitaker went on the offensive. He was often dropped in those fights in which he fought particularly aggressive. I'm 100% certain that if Duran wanted to back up and fight defensively he would do it as well as any fighter. Hell, he walked straight at a bigger, younger ATG who was easily one of the fastest fighters ever and rarely got hit with a clean shot. Floyd also got hit a lot in his more aggressive fights.

I think a lot of the skill Duran uses is not seen as clearly. He short inside counters are a thing of beauty as are his feints. He used feints better than anyone in the game today by a country mile.

I'd suggest watching Duran against De Jesus in their third fight. Watch it closely and you'll come away with a very different point of view if you think Floyd is 'way more skilled'.

I don't know to be honest. I will say though that Duran's skill is less obviously noticeable to the untrained eye. Floyd's is very obvious to see because of the way he fights. Floyd is one of the best defensive counter punchers of recent times. Duran was one of the greatest fighters of all time period. He had the ability to do everything brilliantly. Defense, countering, offense, power, speed, feints, boxing blah blah blah.....Yet, most would see his fights and see a madman wading in. With Floyd you can see him sitting and waiting for the mistake. Staying away until it's made and then capatalising on it.

Their styles are too different to truly make a proper judgment. It's too hard to compare properly. Unless we can take into account the difference in style, which very few obviously are as noted by the 'Floyd easy lamo pwn', responses. Not only that but they both had different skills and used them differently. Duran used feints a hell of a lot better than Floyd. He also slipped punches just as well, but he did it coming forward.

It's a great question but very hard to answer I think.

Good post, for some reason some people seem to have this view that Duran was purely a brawler. Skill isn't poking your chin out or doing windmill impressions, skill is fighting on someones chest and slipping punches

BigStereotype
08-13-2010, 08:38 PM
Duran is a very, very skilled fighter. Excellent at getting inside and beating the living **** out of you. But Floyd is sick, inhuman levels of skilled. Never seen somebody control range like him, roll punches perfectly, fight so well on the inside, etc. Everything Floyd does looks like it comes out of a textbook, he's so good. Duran still wins that matchup, though.