View Full Version : Joe Calzaghe's Greatness


>Right Jab<
08-05-2010, 11:30 AM
I often hear him called a ATG & argubaly Britians best ever fighter.

But the one thing that hurts Calzaghe is this.

For 8 years Calzaghe defended the paper WBO title in homeland, leaving just once. Against extremly sub par fighters etc Branko Sobot, Will McIntyre, Miguel Angel Jimenez, Tocker Pudwill, Mger Mkrtchyan, Kabary Salem, Evans Ashira.

Come on for the most part, these fighters were never heard of again. This tell's me there IS ALOT of padding on that record.

His win over Lacy was impressive, but again Jeff never went on to do anything, and now has just been used as a punching pag for a washed Roy Jones.

He beat washed up versions of Eubank, Jones Jr & Hopkins. And yet was still dropped in 2 fights, even when all 2 were shells of themselves.

His most impressive win is most likely Kessler, who although is a good fighter, is saying alot.

His record is impressive, but if he would of took more risks, fought great prime fighters and fought more out of his homeland, it is highly unlikely that record would be intact.

For 90% of his career he always fought in his homeland, and for the most part continued to defend that paper title. It hurts his legacy.

He was a damn good fighter, but Joe Calzaghe ATG? Come on now, tags like that should just be left for fighters lile Robinson, Armstrong, Langford, Louis, Ali, Greb, Walker, etc.

sonnyboyx2
08-05-2010, 11:40 AM
what you say is very true.. Calzaghe is not an ATG and what you forgot to say was how he avoided Glen Johnson TWICE

NChristo
08-05-2010, 11:46 AM
Bob Fitzsimmons is the best out of Britain, if people don't like that because Fitzsimmons moved to NZ then it's Jimmy Wilde, imo anyway.


I personally don't think he deserves to be labeled as an ATG all that he really has going for him is an undefeated record, as you said he only beat boxers who were sub par and the only greats he beat were past it and even then people think Hopkins was robbed.

>Right Jab<
08-05-2010, 11:46 AM
what you say is very true.. Calzaghe is not an ATG and what you forgot to say was how he avoided Glen Johnson TWICE

Damn, yeah forgot about Glen, he pulled out 3 times. Glen still says he was told inside information that Calzaghe ducked him.

Joeyzagz
08-05-2010, 12:07 PM
He was a damn good fighter, but Joe Calzaghe ATG? Come on now, tags like that should just be left for fighters lile Robinson, Armstrong, Langford, Louis, Ali, Greb, Walker, etc.

I think this entire site underestimates the EXTREME discipline it takes to go undefeated in 46 fights and to remain that way even into your mid 30's. Boxing is not an easy sport and anyone can beat anybody on any given night.

Some days maybe Joe wasnt feeling at his best, yet still found a way to grind it out and persevere. Why does Joe get flack for showing up every single day but quitters like Mike Tyson And Vitali Klitschko are excused for for submitting to Douglas/Byrd?

Joe Calzaghe is the best of his era and he defeated his three biggest contemporaries in Roy Jones, Eubank and Bhop.

He also has a win over the CURRENT Supermiddleweight champion of the world...Joe is the only person to beat Kessler soundly without cheating, and one can argue that hed win every single round of the current Super six.

>Right Jab<
08-05-2010, 12:17 PM
I think this entire site underestimates the EXTREME discipline it takes to go undefeated in 46 fights.

Yeah it must be hard fighting the likes of Branko Sobot, Will McIntyre, Miguel Angel Jimenez, Tocker Pudwill, Mger Mkrtchyan, Kabary Salem, Evans Ashira.

and to remain that way even into your mid 30's. Boxing is not an easy sport and anyone can beat anybody on any given night.

Yeah beating a washed up 40 year old Roy Jones and beating a 45 year old Bernard Hopkins by SD, getting dropped in both fights in your 30's is pretty impressive.

Some days maybe Joe wasnt feeling at his best, yet still found a way to grind it out and persevere. Why does Joe get flack for showing up every single day but quitters like Mike Tyson And Vitali Klitschko are excused for for submitting to Douglas/Byrd?

Whats Vitali and Tyson go to do this? And Tyson didnt quit......AND BTW Tyson>>>>>>Calzaghe

Joe Calzaghe is the best of his era and he defeated his three biggest contemporaries in Roy Jones, Eubank and Bhop.

They were all washed up fighters years past there best, and he was still dropped in all 3 fights.

He also has a win over the CURRENT Supermiddleweight champion of the world...Joe is the only person to beat Kessler soundly without cheating, and one can argue that hed win every single round of the current Super six

His Kessler win is good, but Kesler isnt a great. Andre Ward done is much more convincing that Calzaghe

CarlosG815
08-05-2010, 12:49 PM
What greatness?

Joeyzagz
08-05-2010, 02:05 PM
What greatness?

Greatness is something fighters achieve when they arent out raping people and printing tag plates in jail.

Greatness is being useful in the sport of boxing past 23.

Greatness is beating every single man on your resume' and retiring as a world champ and top 2 p4p.

Obama
08-05-2010, 02:15 PM
Greatness is beating every single man on your resume' and retiring as a world champ and top 2 p4p.

Joe retired #3 p4p, and 2 of those wins of his are questionable.

Tyson.
08-05-2010, 02:45 PM
Calzaghe isnt great.

So what hes undefeated, that record is only as good as the names on it.

Carl Froch has as good a resume if not better than Calzaghe, yet noone talks about him likes hes an ATG.

$BloodyNate$
08-05-2010, 03:27 PM
Greatness is something fighters achieve when they arent out raping people and printing tag plates in jail.

Greatness is being useful in the sport of boxing past 23.

Greatness is beating every single man on your resume' and retiring as a world champ and top 2 p4p.

LMAO Your funny.

LMAO If Manny, Mosley, Cotto, and even probably Zab Judah would have fought that type of resume, they would have been able to retire undefeated too. Like a thread I saw in NSB, Calzaghe's not even greater then Miguel Cotto.

Calzaghe's best win is Mikkel Kessler who's also a good, but not GREAT fighter. Cotto's win over Mosley is better then that win. Cotto could have beaten the washed up Oscar that Manny beat, hell he could have beaten 40 year old versions of Manny & Margarito I bet. I thought he lost to Hopkins who landed the cleaner blows even though that was against 40+ Hopkins who is definitely past his best. Roy Jones never lost in his prime, but was shot to hell when he fought Calzaghe. Jones is all reflex and his reflexes where not that good at all so of course the faster Calzaghe SHOULD have beaten him.

Other then that, look at the rest of the quality of his wins. Bika, Manfredo, and Lacey LOL really? Cotto beat Paulie, Judah, Torres, Quintana, and Foreman. Cotto's wins > the rest of Calzaghe's wins. Not to mention COTTO DUCKED NOBODY when Calzaghe stayed hidden in England and ducked Glenn Johnson not once, not twice, but THREE TIMES!

He's not even better then Cotto so to say he's an ATG is downright laughable. I think you should expand your horizon and stop just watching British boxing and actually watch other fights from other countries because it seems like all you watch is Calzaghe & Lewis, and then the fight losses of fighters who people say would beat them.

He's a good fighter no doubt but great and an ATG? Get the **** out of here unless your going to get off your drugs. A Hall of Famer but definitely an underachiever who of course retired when he division just started getting good and still had legitimate fights to actually make his legacy great.

Joeyzagz
08-05-2010, 03:48 PM
LMAO Your funny.

LMAO If Manny, Mosley, Cotto, and even probably Zab Judah would have fought that type of resume, they would have been able to retire undefeated too. Like a thread I saw in NSB, Calzaghe's not even greater then Miguel Cotto.

Calzaghe's best win is Mikkel Kessler who's also a good, but not GREAT fighter. Cotto's win over Mosley is better then that win. Cotto could have beaten the washed up Oscar that Manny beat, hell he could have beaten 40 year old versions of Manny & Margarito I bet. I thought he lost to Hopkins who landed the cleaner blows even though that was against 40+ Hopkins who is definitely past his best. Roy Jones never lost in his prime, but was shot to hell when he fought Calzaghe. Jones is all reflex and his reflexes where not that good at all so of course the faster Calzaghe SHOULD have beaten him.

Other then that, look at the rest of the quality of his wins. Bika, Manfredo, and Lacey LOL really? Cotto beat Paulie, Judah, Torres, Quintana, and Foreman. Cotto's wins > the rest of Calzaghe's wins. Not to mention COTTO DUCKED NOBODY when Calzaghe stayed hidden in England and ducked Glenn Johnson not once, not twice, but THREE TIMES!

He's not even better then Cotto so to say he's an ATG is downright laughable. I think you should expand your horizon and stop just watching British boxing and actually watch other fights from other countries because it seems like all you watch is Calzaghe & Lewis, and then the fight losses of fighters who people say would beat them.

He's a good fighter no doubt but great and an ATG? Get the **** out of here unless your going to get off your drugs. A Hall of Famer but definitely an underachiever who of course retired when he division just started getting good and still had legitimate fights to actually make his legacy great.

Cotto LMAO If he was so good why was Calzaghe ranked ahead of him on the p4p list?

The Jeff Lacy win alone puts zags ahead of Cotto. Lacy was an unstoppable 21-0(17 kos) juggernaut, built like a superhero. Everyone said he was going to beat zags, but zags went in and ruined his career for good!

How many careers did Cotto ruin? The only one I can think of is his OWN career when he got on his knees against Margarito. And dont bring up the plaster excuse, his gloves were checked and was cleared to fight.

Zags also has the record for most title defenses in the lower weights, how many records does Cotto own?

Toney616
08-05-2010, 03:57 PM
what you say is very true.. Calzaghe is not an ATG and what you forgot to say was how he avoided Glen Johnson TWICE
He ducked Glen Johnson THREE times, its covered in detail in the Calzaghe documentary: not your average Joe

Toney616
08-05-2010, 04:02 PM
Joe Calzaghe is the best of his era and he defeated his three biggest contemporaries in Roy Jones, Eubank and Bhop.

Roy Jones was shot
He took a bad beating during Tarver I, and was almost koed in round 10
Koed in 2 rounds in Tarver II
Koed in 9 rounds in the Johnson fight
Margaret Goodman said he should retire due to his lack of resistance to punches
Calzaghe in his own autobiography said that Jones was a shot fighter and there would be no point in fighting him, he then goes on to insinuate that Jones was taking roids for a large part of his career

Eubank was past prime:
Was fighiing at lhw and took the fight at 11 days notice and would go 0-3 in his last 3 fights

Hopkins was a good win although he was 2-2 in his last 4 fights

Toney616
08-05-2010, 04:04 PM
Greatness is something fighters achieve when they arent out raping people and printing tag plates in jail.

How do you know he did it?

sonnyboyx2
08-05-2010, 04:08 PM
Cotto LMAO If he was so good why was Calzaghe ranked ahead of him on the p4p list?

The Jeff Lacy win alone puts zags ahead of Cotto. Lacy was an unstoppable 21-0(17 kos) juggernaut, built like a superhero. Everyone said he was going to beat zags, but zags went in and ruined his career for good!

How many careers did Cotto ruin? The only one I can think of is his OWN career when he got on his knees against Margarito. And dont bring up the plaster excuse, his gloves were checked and was cleared to fight.

Zags also has the record for most title defenses in the lower weights, how many records does Cotto own?

the odds for Calzaghe (8/11) vs Lacy (11/10)... Lacy had nothing but a fancy nickname he was a bum.

Robin Reid was robbed against Calzaghe

Toney616
08-05-2010, 04:27 PM
Chris Eubank, Branko Sobot, Juan Carlos Gimenez Ferreyra, Robin Reid, Rick Thornberry, David Starie, Omar Sheika, Richie Woodhall, Mario Veit, Will McIntyre, Charles Brewer, Miguel Angel Jimenez, Tocker Pudwill, Byron Mitchell, Mger Mkrtchyan, Kabary Salem, Mario Veit, Evans Ashira, Jeff Lacy, Sakio Bika, Peter Manfredo Jr, Mikkel Kessler

The only decent win on this list is the Kessler win, the rest are c-b class fighters. How can you be considered a ATG when instead of moving up to the LHW divison to fight guys like: Darius M, Roy Jones, Tarver, Glen Johnson and Harding, you fight those guys instead?

Joeyzagz
08-05-2010, 06:16 PM
Chris Eubank, Branko Sobot, Juan Carlos Gimenez Ferreyra, Robin Reid, Rick Thornberry, David Starie, Omar Sheika, Richie Woodhall, Mario Veit, Will McIntyre, Charles Brewer, Miguel Angel Jimenez, Tocker Pudwill, Byron Mitchell, Mger Mkrtchyan, Kabary Salem, Mario Veit, Evans Ashira, Jeff Lacy, Sakio Bika, Peter Manfredo Jr, Mikkel Kessler

The only decent win on this list is the Kessler win, the rest are c-b class fighters. How can you be considered a ATG when instead of moving up to the LHW divison to fight guys like: Darius M, Roy Jones, Tarver, Glen Johnson and Harding, you fight those guys instead?

At least he wasnt picking on welterweights to extend his streak like a one Bernard Hopkins...

Or shooting up roids to take on schoolteachers and postoffice workers

If Bhop and Roy are Hall of famers then zags is a top 20 HOF for handing them both their asses..

Bika is another guy who had never been soundly beaten in his career, and was made to look like a fool against Zags
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa24/elitesoldier2/42JoeCalzaghevSakioBikafinal.gif


Zag

The_Demon
08-05-2010, 06:18 PM
Haters gunna hate

>Right Jab<
08-05-2010, 06:19 PM
People forget just how much of a worthy challager Tucker Podwell was.......Thats a great win for Joe Calzaghe



















:lol1::lol1::lol1:

>Right Jab<
08-05-2010, 06:19 PM
Haters gunna hate

It's not hating it's just the truth. Joe Calzaghe is not a ATG.

Tyson.
08-05-2010, 08:04 PM
At least he wasnt picking on welterweights to extend his streak like a one Bernard Hopkins...

Or shooting up roids to take on schoolteachers and postoffice workers

If Bhop and Roy are Hall of famers then zags is a top 20 HOF for handing them both their asses..

Bika is another guy who had never been soundly beaten in his career, and was made to look like a fool against Zags
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa24/elitesoldier2/42JoeCalzaghevSakioBikafinal.gif


Zag

"I could probably give Jones a tough fight, probably the best fight he's ever had," said Calzaghe. "But I know my capabilities and unless I got paid the crown jewels I wouldn't want to risk it."

Jones beat Toney, Hopkins, Woods, Ruiz , Mccalum, Griffin and Hill which are all as good if not better than any Calzaghe win.

Hopkins fought Trinidad at 160 who had a belt there. he fought DLH at 156 just 2lbs above where DLH was an elite fighter. Hardly picking on welterweights. Also has wins over Tarver, Johnson, Pavlik, Winky and Joppy which are all as good if not better than any Calzaghe win.

The likes of Jones and Hopkins were fighting at the elite level longer than Calzaghe and that is why they are greater. If Hopkins had retired after the Trinidad win, he would not be ranked so highly its the fact that after he got that win he carried on and built on his legacy.

Calzaghe became big in 2006 after the Lacy win, then he retired in 2008 when there were still challenges out there. Had he carried on for a while longer cleared out LHW and taken on some of the super six then he could of reached ATG status as it stands he is a HOFer.

blackice42
08-05-2010, 08:10 PM
The rocky marciano of the super middleweights. Fought guys past there prime and they were still giving him trouble.

Joeyzagz
08-05-2010, 08:51 PM
"I could probably give Jones a tough fight, probably the best fight he's ever had," said Calzaghe. "But I know my capabilities and unless I got paid the crown jewels I wouldn't want to risk it."

Jones beat Toney, Hopkins, Woods, Ruiz , Mccalum, Griffin and Hill which are all as good if not better than any Calzaghe win.

Hopkins fought Trinidad at 160 who had a belt there. he fought DLH at 156 just 2lbs above where DLH was an elite fighter. Hardly picking on welterweights. Also has wins over Tarver, Johnson, Pavlik, Winky and Joppy which are all as good if not better than any Calzaghe win.

The likes of Jones and Hopkins were fighting at the elite level longer than Calzaghe and that is why they are greater. If Hopkins had retired after the Trinidad win, he would not be ranked so highly its the fact that after he got that win he carried on and built on his legacy.

Calzaghe became big in 2006 after the Lacy win, then he retired in 2008 when there were still challenges out there. Had he carried on for a while longer cleared out LHW and taken on some of the super six then he could of reached ATG status as it stands he is a HOFer.

Why is it that CLEAN fighters who do it the right way get criticized, but cheaters like Roy and Bhop are glorified?

BHop is a notoriously dirty fighter who uses his steel-head more than his fists. He also fakes injuries and is an undercover racist.

Roy Jones and James Toney are known steroid abusers, who were hopped up on performance enhancers during their prime. We dont know how many fights they really won....

Joe Calzaghe did it the RIGHT way, and went undefeated while doing it. He is a Hall of Famer based on the Eubank, Veit, Jimenez, Sheika, Manfredo, Lacy, Bika and Kessler wins alone, Roy and Bhop were just the cherries on top of an ATG career.

Shadow boxer 3
08-05-2010, 09:02 PM
calzaghe isnt great

$BloodyNate$
08-05-2010, 10:47 PM
Cotto LMAO If he was so good why was Calzaghe ranked ahead of him on the p4p list?

The Jeff Lacy win alone puts zags ahead of Cotto. Lacy was an unstoppable 21-0(17 kos) juggernaut, built like a superhero. Everyone said he was going to beat zags, but zags went in and ruined his career for good!

How many careers did Cotto ruin? The only one I can think of is his OWN career when he got on his knees against Margarito. And dont bring up the plaster excuse, his gloves were checked and was cleared to fight.

Zags also has the record for most title defenses in the lower weights, how many records does Cotto own?

Um that's the easiest question on the face of the earth. Because Cotto actually has the guts and courage to fight the best fighters in the world win or lose and he lost no doubt about it.

Calzaghe gots no balls to fight the best at their best so of course he was undefeated which put him higher then Cotto P4P. BUt I'm not trying to say Cotto's some HOF fighter or something, I'm just using him as an example. Joe's resume isnt even better then his especially since he's a chump who wouldn't fight any elite level primed fighters so how the hell could he be an ATG?

NEVER.

>Right Jab<
08-06-2010, 06:15 AM
Why is it that CLEAN fighters who do it the right way get criticized, but cheaters like Roy and Bhop are glorified?

BHop is a notoriously dirty fighter who uses his steel-head more than his fists. He also fakes injuries and is an undercover racist.

Roy Jones and James Toney are known steroid abusers, who were hopped up on performance enhancers during their prime. We dont know how many fights they really won....

Joe Calzaghe did it the RIGHT way, and went undefeated while doing it. He is a Hall of Famer based on the Eubank, Veit, Jimenez, Sheika, Manfredo, Lacy, Bika and Kessler wins alone, Roy and Bhop were just the cherries on top of an ATG career.

LMAO so them wins get you in the IBHOF and make you a ATG?

Spartacus Sully
08-06-2010, 06:20 AM
Id say Joe calhaze was a great boxer. he trained hard had a good work rate and had good fights.

not really one to stand out as deserving to be rated incrediably high nor incrediably low.

for what he did id say he deserves an ihof spot but not atg status.

Stone Roses!
08-06-2010, 07:32 AM
Um that's the easiest question on the face of the earth. Because Cotto actually has the guts and courage to fight the best fighters in the world win or lose and he lost no doubt about it.

Calzaghe gots no balls to fight the best at their best so of course he was undefeated which put him higher then Cotto P4P. BUt I'm not trying to say Cotto's some HOF fighter or something, I'm just using him as an example. Joe's resume isnt even better then his especially since he's a chump who wouldn't fight any elite level primed fighters so how the hell could he be an ATG?

NEVER.

Joe Calzaghe fought a Prime, elite Mikkel Kessler, one of the greatest Super Middleweights of All-Time.

No need to call an ATG like Calzaghe a chump.

Toney616
08-06-2010, 07:46 AM
At least he wasnt picking on welterweights to extend his streak like a one Bernard Hopkins...
I'm not a Hopkins fan and I have also criticized him for doing that as well

Or shooting up roids to take on schoolteachers and postoffice workers
I'm not a Jones fan either, some of his opponents were shocking but you cannot not tell me that a lot of Calzaghe's opponents didn't have day jobs as well

If Bhop and Roy are Hall of famers then zags is a top 20 HOF for handing them both their asses..
It doesn't work like that

Bika is another guy who had never been soundly beaten in his career, and was made to look like a fool against Zags

Bika isn't very good and more of a street-fighter than a boxer

Tyson.
08-06-2010, 10:56 AM
Why is it that CLEAN fighters who do it the right way get criticized, but cheaters like Roy and Bhop are glorified?

BHop is a notoriously dirty fighter who uses his steel-head more than his fists. He also fakes injuries and is an undercover racist.

Roy Jones and James Toney are known steroid abusers, who were hopped up on performance enhancers during their prime. We dont know how many fights they really won....

Joe Calzaghe did it the RIGHT way, and went undefeated while doing it. He is a Hall of Famer based on the Eubank, Veit, Jimenez, Sheika, Manfredo, Lacy, Bika and Kessler wins alone, Roy and Bhop were just the cherries on top of an ATG career.

Roy got caught using stuff that you could obtain at a supermarket, he didnt know that the supplement was banned. Its was only banned by the IBF.

Yeah Hopkins is a dirty fighter, but countless great fighters in the past used similar tactics. Hes not the only boxer to fake injuries either, being racist doesnt affect his boxing legacy.

Jiminez, Veit, Sheika and Manfredo, Bika were all average fighters who would lose to anyone in the supersix. Since losing to Collins, Eubank had been inactive fighting 2 bums in the last 2 years at a higher weight class. The fighter Calzaghe fought was weight drained and nothing more than a average SMW fighter at that point. Kessler and Lacy were good fighters but nothing exceptional. Alot of people had Hopkins beating Calzaghe, and the RJJ Calzaghe fought was no longer a top LHW fighter.

For unifing a weak SMW division I guess he is a HOFer for that. But at LHW he has a disputed win over Hopkins and a nothing win over RJJ.

Another thing that counts against Calzaghe is that he only started fighting big fights for the last 3 years of his carrear.

Had he tried to unify his division and take on bigger challenges earlier on his carrear he could have achieved more.

He had the talent to do so but didnt want to take the risk and to be great you have to dare to be great.