View Full Version : gotta love joe frazier


uncle_rico
07-17-2005, 05:04 PM
espn classic just showed frazier vs. ron sanders (i'm on the east coast).
for those of your who haven't seen it, think of a 4 rd
heavyweight corrales/castillo.
sanders wasn't a top notch guy, but it was a brutal
slugfest that was stopped cuz of cuts.
really, frazier was something else.
he just takes and takes and keeps coming and coming.
obviously his style didn't work against a mammoth like foreman
(tho i think he woulda been better in a rematch),
but i can see him absolutely killing moden guys his size like tyson or tua.
i was watchin a rerun of calvin brock/mcline and i think frazier
would destroy those guys, man oh man.

tommyhearns804
07-18-2005, 11:30 PM
I respect frazier but there is no way in hell could he destroy a guy like david tua.tua has never been down as a pro.i never seen him hurt as a pro.tua has problems with guys who jab and move.frazier came right at you.frazier can be hurt.frazier loses

chopper77
07-19-2005, 01:48 PM
I don't know Tommy. In his prime he may have come at guys, but his movement was the absolute best. A very hard guy to hit. Even Ali said that the Thrilla in Manilla was his toughest fight ever. He was gassed after the fight. I agree, you gotta love Smokin Joe!

Boxclever
07-19-2005, 03:14 PM
Lets put it this way, a PRIME Frasier if he was around right now would probably have the belts (all of them) within 2-3 years. :p

Kid Achilles
07-19-2005, 05:23 PM
Frazier getting demolished by Tua? Frazier was too elusive. You don't need a jab to handle Tua; some good head movement will work fine. Also Tua was no Foreman or Bonavena. Watch him in the Lewis fight and he's just as reluctant as Lennox to really open up. Both of those guys were afraid of one another. That's why the fight sucked so much.

Bonavena was a wild animal who would go after a mako shark if he was hungry enough. That's why he was able to hurt Frazier, because he didn't give a **** about getting hit and didn't respect his left hook at all. Tua had a better chin than Bonavena but not half the mental strength or aggression. Frazier would make Tua cautious and a cautious Tua is as good as defeated.

paul750
07-19-2005, 06:04 PM
Frazier getting demolished by Tua? Frazier was too elusive. You don't need a jab to handle Tua; some good head movement will work fine. Also Tua was no Foreman or Bonavena. Watch him in the Lewis fight and he's just as reluctant as Lennox to really open up. Both of those guys were afraid of one another. That's why the fight sucked so much.

Bonavena was a wild animal who would go after a mako shark if he was hungry enough. That's why he was able to hurt Frazier, because he didn't give a **** about getting hit and didn't respect his left hook at all. Tua had a better chin than Bonavena but not half the mental strength or aggression. Frazier would make Tua cautious and a cautious Tua is as good as defeated.
frazier, marciano etc where come forward fighters, they didn't back off and box, their tactics were to wear the other guy down, thats why frazier couldn't survive against foreman and thats why he would be unlikly to last against tua, lewis is a big modern day athlete, he can box, move and has a big punch as well, all those factors enabled him to beat tua with ease, i doubt frazier would do the same,

gravity62
07-19-2005, 06:53 PM
frazier, marciano etc where come forward fighters, they didn't back off and box, their tactics were to wear the other guy down, thats why frazier couldn't survive against foreman and thats why he would be unlikly to last against tua, lewis is a big modern day athlete, he can box, move and has a big punch as well, all those factors enabled him to beat tua with ease, i doubt frazier would do the same,

I agree, Tua is too big and powerfull for Frazier who weighed 205 in his prime.

Kid Achilles
07-19-2005, 10:25 PM
Tua weighs about 220 lbs in shape so no I would not say it's a valid comparison. Also in saying Frazier was a swarmer you are oversimplifying things. Yes he came straight forward but he did so while feinting and bobbing and weaving. His reflexes were better than Tua's. He was right in front of you, and he did take the ocassional hard punch, but he was not a sitting target. He went through Chuvalo and cut him up bad. Chuvalo was taller and even sturdier than Tua as well as a better boxer. I'm not saying it's a sure thing that Frazier takes him out, but he would be the favorite.

uncle_rico
07-19-2005, 11:23 PM
uh, guys?
frazier beat ali.

the guy beat ali.

a - ****in - li!

ok? and we're debating how he'd do against tua?

david tua... lol.
cmon now, this is borderline disrespectful...

too much is made about tua's size.
yeah, he's solid, but he's no taller than frazier
so he's not gonna sit back and pop him like foreman did.
and he got plenty of fat on him whereas frazier was
205 of muscle.
plus, as kid mentioned, frazier did tons of upper body movement.
no one's evered swarmed tua the way frazier would.
i think the fight would last as long as tua/his corner
want to get pounded for and that's about it.
there's plenty of big, strong, hard punchers out there,
but this is joe frazier...

for all this bull**** people talk about tua, tell me,
what belts does he have? what belts has he ever had?
there's a reason he's got none, never been a champ.
he's strong, never been knocked down, blah, blah, blah.
he got no belts. theres a reason for that.

btw, did i mention that frazier beat ali?

gravity62
07-20-2005, 05:09 PM
But that doesn't mean he whould beat Tua. Despite the bobing and weaving, Frazier was hittable on the inside as was proven by the Ron Stander fight. I just don't think he could bang with Tua, who's punching power was in the ball park of a Tyson or a Foreman, for too long. Like Tua, Foreman was also naturally bigger than Frazier by 15 pounds, and you saw what happened in those fights, which shows that Frazier had trouble with bigger stronger fighters as with most fighters who always come strait forward.

About Tua never being a champion, Tua and Frazier fought in two different eras. If you were drop Tua in Frazier's era, he may have won the title at some point because he has good size and power, and that really matters in the heavyweight division; and that's heavyweights are so much bigger now than ever before.

uncle_rico
07-20-2005, 08:45 PM
But that doesn't mean he whould beat Tua. Despite the bobing and weaving, Frazier was hittable on the inside as was proven by the Ron Stander fight. I just don't think he could bang with Tua, who's punching power was in the ball park of a Tyson or a Foreman, for too long. Like Tua, Foreman was also naturally bigger than Frazier by 15 pounds, and you saw what happened in those fights, which shows that Frazier had trouble with bigger stronger fighters as with most fighters who always come strait forward.

About Tua never being a champion, Tua and Frazier fought in two different eras. If you were drop Tua in Frazier's era, he may have won the title at some point because he has good size and power, and that really matters in the heavyweight division; and that's heavyweights are so much bigger now than ever before.

ok, you solid/valid points, i just wholeheartedly disagree...
it's just a matter of perspective, i guess.
frazier's era was arguably the best ever, i don't think tua woulda done
anything, certainly not gonna be foreman or ali. even a bit later,
holmes, spinks, and norton all woulda beat tua.
heavyweights are bigger now, but ****tier imo.

anyway, i wasn't tryin to rattle any cages, just that, when i started the thread, i saw that fight on espn classic and felt i should write something.
you just don't see fights like that in the heavyweight division anymore and i enjoyed. :)

hellfire508
07-21-2005, 03:43 AM
ok, you solid/valid points, i just wholeheartedly disagree...
it's just a matter of perspective, i guess.
frazier's era was arguably the best ever, i don't think tua woulda done
anything, certainly not gonna be foreman or ali. even a bit later,
holmes, spinks, and norton all woulda beat tua.
heavyweights are bigger now, but ****tier imo.

anyway, i wasn't tryin to rattle any cages, just that, when i started the thread, i saw that fight on espn classic and felt i should write something.
you just don't see fights like that in the heavyweight division anymore and i enjoyed. :)

I agree buddy. Tua would have done **** all in the 70s. Frazier was a hell of alot better than Tua, and IMO would beat Tua head to head, fairly easily. thats right, EASILY!

Easy-E
07-23-2005, 05:00 PM
Smokin Joe would SMOKE david tua, the comparison is disrespectful to the memory of smokin joe. david tua, come on

paul750
07-23-2005, 05:11 PM
Smokin Joe would SMOKE david tua, the comparison is disrespectful to the memory of smokin joe. david tua, come on
Tua was able to take all those punches from 6'2 235lb Ike Ibeabuchi without showing any signs of hurt, he has also taken punches from the likes of Lennox Lewis and Hasim Rahman with no sign of hurt, i don't think those philadelphia left hooks would dent Tua's coconut, thats not being disrepectful to Joe Frazier.

tommyhearns804
07-26-2005, 07:37 AM
When was Chuvalo tougher than Tua?Chuvalo was stopped tons of times he just didn't get knocked down.Tua has never been down as a pro or stopped.Tua punches alot harder than Chuvalo.Tua punches harder than Quarry.As i said i am sure i am a bigger fan of Fraziers than any of you and it bothers me when people remember the 70's they just focus on Ali when Frazier beat him first.
But Frazier wouldn't own the devision today.Vitali is to tall and strong to loser to Frazier.I would say Peters is to big and strong but Peters is a lard azz and would of probably only weighed about 220 or so if he was in shape.And Peters has yet to beat anybody worth mentioning.Frazier would beat guys like Barrett,Byrd,Ruiz, all in the same month.But when you get to guys with great chins and great punches then Frazier would have alot tougher time than you like to think.
Frazier=great fighter but his style or coming right toward you would always lead him to being destroyed by any real big puncher.Most of your little kids would say Foreman had no skill at all and he destroyed him.And most of you will say Lewis hits just as hard and has better skill and stamina which he doesn't but you think so though so wouldn't that mean guys like Lewis would beat Frazier worse than Foreman did?

uncle_rico
07-26-2005, 08:00 AM
When was Chuvalo tougher than Tua?Chuvalo was stopped tons of times he just didn't get knocked down.Tua has never been down as a pro or stopped.Tua punches alot harder than Chuvalo.Tua punches harder than Quarry.As i said i am sure i am a bigger fan of Fraziers than any of you and it bothers me when people remember the 70's they just focus on Ali when Frazier beat him first.
But Frazier wouldn't own the devision today.Vitali is to tall and strong to loser to Frazier.I would say Peters is to big and strong but Peters is a lard azz and would of probably only weighed about 220 or so if he was in shape.And Peters has yet to beat anybody worth mentioning.Frazier would beat guys like Barrett,Byrd,Ruiz, all in the same month.But when you get to guys with great chins and great punches then Frazier would have alot tougher time than you like to think.
Frazier=great fighter but his style or coming right toward you would always lead him to being destroyed by any real big puncher.Most of your little kids would say Foreman had no skill at all and he destroyed him.And most of you will say Lewis hits just as hard and has better skill and stamina which he doesn't but you think so though so wouldn't that mean guys like Lewis would beat Frazier worse than Foreman did?

frazier had one bad night against foreman. big deal.
you can't assume every big man would do that to frazier, especially not the *****in bums* of this era.
lewis was knocked the **** out twice embarassingly, joe would
kill him. that guy didn't have the discipline to beat frazier.
and who cares about tua? what has he done? frazier would kill him.
as for vitali losing to frazier? he stands still, how can he beat frazier? he was almost knocked out by corrie sanders!!
the guy is doing what now? workin in a car wash?
there's a reason why everyone, *everyone* says the last five years have the been worst in heavyweight history, cuz these
guys suck. who cares how big they are, they suck.
frazier's one bad night against foreman doesnt mean he'd lose
to other big guys that way.

if you wanna suggest frazier would have a tough time with bigger fighters, ok, i agree, ones like lewis who boxed and moved and could be, yes, i agree would be tough for joe.
but tua? sure he's tough, but this is joe frazier. who cares how big tua is, joe threw a million punches a round and continued doing so even when he was old and finished. anyone under 6 feet,
joe would prolly destroy. tua, tyson, whomever...

kapersky
07-26-2005, 08:13 AM
yeah right tua and tyson. joe is not that good :rolleyes:

tommyhearns804
07-26-2005, 09:21 AM
Lewis was knocked down 2 times in his career so your point is?Both guys weighed about 230.Ali was almost knocked out by Henry Cooper a 190 pound glass chin bum.Vitali is hurt right now so again what is your point?It is ok for fighters like Kostya or how ever you spell his name to beat hurt for a year or more but not Vitali?Sanders is a world class fighter.So if you feel Vitali was hurt or not is unimportant.Tyson was knocked out by Douglas a complete bum.
And Foreman crushed Frazier 2 times.It wasnt just one bad night.And i bring up Foreman because like i said based on most guys who don't know boxing Foreman is the worse fighter who ever lived.And Lewis is claimed to have better stamina and better power and better skills than him.So if Foreman could crush him then Lewis.I don't know which Tua you are talking about who doesnt throw alot of punches.Did you see him fight Ibeabuchi?When you stand infront of Tua he throws punches.Tua has problems with taller boxers just like Frazier did and Tyson did and any other short heavyweight will.As i said Tua has never been hurt at all as a pro.Frazier has.Frazier went down 8 times to Foreman and 2 to Bonevena.Does this mean Frazier had a bad chin?Hell no Frazier had a grade A chin.No shame in getting knocked down or out by a prime Foreman.And Bonevena was a top level fighter who could really bang as well.The point is to this date nobody as a pro hurt Tua.So why would Frazier be able to do it?Frazier would lose period.
But anyway as the post said you have to love Frazier.He showed tons of heart and courage through out his career.

uncle_rico
07-26-2005, 01:07 PM
"But anyway as the post said you have to love Frazier.He showed tons of heart and courage through out his career."

yeah, that was really the point of the thread when i started it.
i saw a fight on espn classic, thought it was great and was inspired to write about smokin joe.

so yeah, joe got his ass handed to him by foreman, but despite what others say, lewis is not foreman. foreman is one of the all time great heavies, i'm not ready to put a guy who got knocked out by rahman and mccall in that category. so, i disagree with the logic that if foreman can beat frazier, so can lewis.
lewis, imho, is not close to foreman.
so, i think frazier can knock lewis out, but i also think
in a rematch, steward would smarten lewis up and he could
give joe difficulties. but still, i like joe 2 outta 3 with lewis.

as for tua, i just think frazier would be too much for him.
yeah, no one has hurt tua, but no one fights the way frazier did; non stop punches. tua don't have the stamina for that.

as for vitali, i just think he's so very typical of todays crappy heavies, big statues who aren't very good.
they are big and "strong", but don't move well.
i'm not at all impressed by klitchko.
i see these guys just like primo carnera. he was 6'6' 260, everyone in the world was scared of him until he was knocked the **** out.
oh, and sanders is not world class.
if you think so, it's only becuase todays heavyweights suck so
bad, guys like sanders are considered "world class".

BadMagick
07-26-2005, 02:19 PM
espn classic just showed frazier vs. ron sanders (i'm on the east coast).
for those of your who haven't seen it, think of a 4 rd
heavyweight corrales/castillo.
sanders wasn't a top notch guy, but it was a brutal
slugfest that was stopped cuz of cuts.
really, frazier was something else.
he just takes and takes and keeps coming and coming.
obviously his style didn't work against a mammoth like foreman
(tho i think he woulda been better in a rematch),
but i can see him absolutely killing moden guys his size like tyson or tua.
i was watchin a rerun of calvin brock/mcline and i think frazier
would destroy those guys, man oh man.

They did rematch, he lasted three rounds longer, and got TKOed again.

uncle_rico
07-26-2005, 02:43 PM
They did rematch, he lasted three rounds longer, and got TKOed again.

hehe, yeah. thanks. didn't realize i wrote it that way :)

i think they fought like 4 years later?
what i meant was, he woulda done better in a rematch
shortly after the fight. frazier fought foreman the second time
after fighting ali two more times. frazier was absolutely done by then.

nice catch tho, no one else mentioned it. i think hearns may have in another post as well. ;)

BadMagick
07-26-2005, 07:47 PM
Anyone who says that Tua or "No Heart" Mike Tyson would beat Joe Fraizer needs to stop watching boxing, and promptly end themselves. I suggest burning or something else manly like that. Banging your head on concrete always works, too.

Easy-E
07-26-2005, 08:27 PM
smokin joe is the man, a smaller guy with alot of heart who just kept on comin

tommyhearns804
07-27-2005, 07:11 AM
tua isnt mike tyson.tua doesn't quit on his stool.if you think just because a fighter fought in the 70's that means he could beat every other fighter who ever lived then you need to stop watching boxing.frazier best win came over ali.sure ali is more skilled and quicker than tua but his chin isnt as good and he can't punch as hard.frazier didnt really fight to many top level guys in his career besides ali and foreman.he never showed he could knock out a guy with tua's chin so why do you think he could do it?because he is more popoular than tua?
frazier could beat tyson because tyson has a weak chin(he was stopped five times) and tyson is a quitter.but tyson could also beat frazier who was a slow starter.but neither tua or frazier would have a prayer of beating a guy like tua who they couldn't hurt.so as i said tua crushes frazier period.

Ali_is_the_greatest17
07-29-2005, 07:25 PM
Lets put it this way, a PRIME Frasier if he was around right now would probably have the belts (all of them) within 2-3 years. :p

I think your right, but there are people like RJJ who can defeat Frazier right now.

Easy-E
07-29-2005, 11:43 PM
I think your right, but there are people like RJJ who can defeat Frazier right now.


what basis do you have for that?
the fact the rjj beat ruiz?

Kid Achilles
07-30-2005, 12:29 AM
RJJ beating Frazier is the dumbest **** I've ever heard and it was spawned by Max Kellerman, who is notorious for saying stupid **** concerning these fantasy matchups. My favorite was when he said Jack Johnson had too much height and reach on Dempsey even though it is Dempsey who has the significantly longer reach.

Easy-E
07-30-2005, 04:35 AM
yeah, i agree, rjj?? where the hell did that come from? he lost his last two fights in convincing fashion, but you think he could beat joe fraizer. right now the two arnt in the same league

Dempsey 1919
02-23-2006, 03:57 PM
frazier definetely beats any hw today.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-23-2006, 04:57 PM
frazier definetely beats any hw today.
definitly

actually mostly any boxing greats from the 60's and 70's in their primes would beat any hw today
________
SICK FROM NEXIUM (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/nexium/)

mokele
04-01-2006, 06:07 PM
Tua weighs about 220 lbs in shape so no I would not say it's a valid comparison. Also in saying Frazier was a swarmer you are oversimplifying things. Yes he came straight forward but he did so while feinting and bobbing and weaving. His reflexes were better than Tua's. He was right in front of you, and he did take the ocassional hard punch, but he was not a sitting target. He went through Chuvalo and cut him up bad. Chuvalo was taller and even sturdier than Tua as well as a better boxer. I'm not saying it's a sure thing that Frazier takes him out, but he would be the favorite.

If somehow we could move Frazier and Tua around in time and put them in against each other in the heart of their prime, I say that Frazier wins a close decision by outworking Tua and by using superior conditioning. It would have been 1 of the greatest inside battles of all time, with both men working in close 1 round after another with little if any clinching until late in the fight when both fighters were a bit tired. It would have been a heavyweight version of Corrales-Castillo 1.

I say that Frazier won most of the early rounds by landing more punches but that the tank-like Tua starts to come on late and even backs up Frazier, who actually starts to box late in the fight.

These are 2 of my all-time favorites, compact inside fighters with great left hooks, so I don't know who I would root for. Frazier is perhaps the greater fighter, all things considered, but Tua is a special type of fighter who would have stood a decent chance against any of the great heavyweight punchers in history. Only the all-time great boxers would in all likelihood have made Tua look less than great, guys like Ali, Jack Johnson, maybe Tunney and Larry Holmes. Maybe even a crafty guy like Jimmy Young would have frustrated Tua, sticking, moving and clinching on the inside. It's really hard to say.

Dempsey 1919
04-01-2006, 06:34 PM
frazier would definetely beat tua.

Dempsey 1919
04-01-2006, 11:06 PM
uh, guys?
frazier beat ali.

the guy beat ali.

a - ****in - li!

ok? and we're debating how he'd do against tua?

david tua... lol.
cmon now, this is borderline disrespectful...

too much is made about tua's size.
yeah, he's solid, but he's no taller than frazier
so he's not gonna sit back and pop him like foreman did.
and he got plenty of fat on him whereas frazier was
205 of muscle.
plus, as kid mentioned, frazier did tons of upper body movement.
no one's evered swarmed tua the way frazier would.
i think the fight would last as long as tua/his corner
want to get pounded for and that's about it.
there's plenty of big, strong, hard punchers out there,
but this is joe frazier...

for all this bull**** people talk about tua, tell me,
what belts does he have? what belts has he ever had?
there's a reason he's got none, never been a champ.
he's strong, never been knocked down, blah, blah, blah.
he got no belts. theres a reason for that.

btw, did i mention that frazier beat ali?

great post! good k.

Piggu
04-01-2006, 11:11 PM
YAY FRAZIER!!!!!!

I was gonna put Joe in my avatar, but I screwed up and put in Lennox.

Da Iceman
04-01-2006, 11:28 PM
great post! good k.
your encouriging people to hype up ali's opponents catipillar.

Dempsey 1919
04-01-2006, 11:29 PM
your encouriging people to hype up ali's opponents catipillar.

no i'm not. i just thought it was a very good post, don't you? :)

Da Iceman
04-01-2006, 11:32 PM
decent. not deserving of any k.

Dempsey 1919
04-01-2006, 11:33 PM
decent. not deserving of any k.

not in your eyes. :rolleyes:

Da Iceman
04-01-2006, 11:34 PM
i got 20 20 vision.

Dempsey 1919
05-12-2006, 01:49 PM
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SABBATH
05-12-2006, 04:03 PM
Good job Butterfly.

Too bad you don't have any of the following rounds when Frazier gets his rhythm going and really punishes Jerry. Anyway you can see what a great in-fighter Frazier was, never content to clinch and hold, always bobbing and weaving on the inside using both hands and mixing his attack body and head. Always in the pocket but right in front of his opponent and deceptively hard to put punches together against.

Quarry I, Ellis I, and FOTC was Frazier at his best.

Dempsey 1919
05-12-2006, 04:28 PM
Good job Butterfly.

Too bad you don't have any of the following rounds when Frazier gets his rhythm going and really punishes Jerry. Anyway you can see what a great in-fighter Frazier was, never content to clinch and hold, always bobbing and weaving on the inside using both hands and mixing his attack body and head. Always in the pocket but right in front of his opponent and deceptively hard to put punches together against.

Quarry I, Ellis I, and FOTC was Frazier at his best.

don't forget bob foster, lol! :D

SABBATH
05-12-2006, 04:43 PM
don't forget bob foster, lol! :D
Ha, ha. I actually had him written down then deleted it. Not reall a fair match-up for Foster. He was pretty much out-gunned.

Kid Achilles
05-12-2006, 05:09 PM
That was a very good round of inside fighting. Don't see very much of that these days.

SABBATH
05-12-2006, 05:20 PM
That was a very good round of inside fighting. Don't see very much of that these days.
Exactly. Makes you shudder when you think what either guy would do to Rachman or Toney.

Frazier's 15th round
05-12-2006, 08:12 PM
I love Frazier, but I wish he had fought a wider variety of opponents like Mac Foster, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, and Jimmy Young. Instead of Dave Zyglewicz, Terry Daniels, and Jimmy Ellis the second time. I know that he kicked Norton's ass in sparring before FOTC, and was getting beat up badly after it, but I still think he should have motivated himself more and would have beaten Norton in a fight. His resume would look so much better with those guys. I didn't mention Shavers because he lost to Ron Stander, Quarry, Stallings, etc. Frazier would have dusted him off in about 2 rounds. I will always consider Stander a better name than Shavers.

I think Ron Lyle would have given him some problems, but Lyle was never a strong starter, either, so I think Frazier would wear him down and stop him in the later rounds. Instead, we have idiots like Mac Foster claiming they'd beat Frazier faster than Foreman did.

SABBATH
05-12-2006, 11:03 PM
I love Frazier, but I wish he had fought a wider variety of opponents like Mac Foster, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, and Jimmy Young. Instead of Dave Zyglewicz, Terry Daniels, and Jimmy Ellis the second time. I know that he kicked Norton's ass in sparring before FOTC, and was getting beat up badly after it, but I still think he should have motivated himself more and would have beaten Norton in a fight. His resume would look so much better with those guys. I didn't mention Shavers because he lost to Ron Stander, Quarry, Stallings, etc. Frazier would have dusted him off in about 2 rounds. I will always consider Stander a better name than Shavers.

I think Ron Lyle would have given him some problems, but Lyle was never a strong starter, either, so I think Frazier would wear him down and stop him in the later rounds. Instead, we have idiots like Mac Foster claiming they'd beat Frazier faster than Foreman did.
Norton and Frazier were friends and shared the same trainer in Eddie Futch so that was likely a primary factor in why they never fought. When Frazier was champ Norton hadn't beaten Ali yet and wasn't that highly thought of.

Now Jimmy Young didn't have the credentials to warrant a title shot when Frazier was champ and wasn't really thought of very highly until after the Ali fight in 1976 which is the year Frazier retired.

Lyle had some credentials while Frazier was champ having beaten Manuel Ramos and Buster Mathis, so this match could have been made as Lyle would have been a more competitive opponent than Zygliewicz or Daniels. However, if you have seen Lyle's loss against Quarry, I doubt Lyle would have beaten Frazier.

Shavers likely would have fought Frazier instead of Quarry II but Quarry starched Shavers in one round so there goes that match-up.

If you think about it, in the 5 year span of 1971-76 Frazier fought Ali 3 times and Foreman twice. With that kind of opposition he deserved fights like Ellis.

Pugnacious_Z
05-13-2006, 12:17 AM
David Tua's chin is very good but its weird that he got knocked out with a right cross that looked like an arm punch in the amateurs by Felix Savon

Yaman
05-13-2006, 09:49 AM
David Tua's chin is very good but its weird that he got knocked out with a right cross that looked like an arm punch in the amateurs by Felix Savon


Never heard of that. He probably threw the fight if thats true.

Heckler
05-14-2006, 04:48 AM
Im pretty sure a prime Joe Frazier would hold the belts, Wlad's a big man? and? is he anything special? That reach doesn't mean much when joe's on the inside breaking wlad down. Anyone that thinks Joe wasn't strong enough, or couldn't get on the inside of these big guys these days needs to watch the FOTC. Joe Frazier worked too hard, was too tough for the modern division... byrd, wlad, toney... he'd smoke them all.