View Full Version : Average fighters who floored ATGs


Joeyzagz
07-29-2010, 01:27 PM
Past primes, members from smaller weight classes, or journeymen who were on the cusp of being good fighters; If they floored a top ATG list them here.



Sonny Liston
*Was legitimately knocked off by the streaky Leotis Martin


Jack Dempsey
*Knocked out cold by Journeyman Jim Flynn

*Knocked down twice and through the ropes by Luis Firpo

*Floored by recent LHW Gene Tunney, who was not known for devastating power

TheMagicMan
07-29-2010, 01:29 PM
Past primes, members from smaller weight classes, or journeymen who were on the cusp of being good fighters; If they floored a top ATG list them here.



Sonny Liston
*Was legitimately knocked off by the streaky Leotis Martin


Jack Dempsey
*Knocked out cold by Journeyman Jim Flynn

*Knocked down twice and through the ropes by Luis Firpo

*Floored by recent LHW Gene Tunney, who was not known for devastating power

1/2 of Ali's opponents.

Southpaw Great
07-29-2010, 01:54 PM
Henry Cooper & Chuck Wepner Floored Ali
Segundo Mercado Floored Bernard Hopkins
Kevin Howard Floored Ray Leonard

Vadrigar.
07-29-2010, 02:01 PM
Henry Cooper & Chuck Wepner Floored Ali
Segundo Mercado Floored Bernard Hopkins
Kevin Howard Floored Ray Leonard

That's a myth. Wepner stood on Ali's foot and he fell backwards. Then lifted his foot off of Ali's foot when he was falling backwards so he would go down.

The referee gave an incorrect ruling.

Southpaw Great
07-29-2010, 02:03 PM
That's a myth. Wepner stood on Ali's foot and he fell backwards. Then lifted his foot off of Ali's foot when he was falling backwards so he would go down.

The referee gave an incorrect ruling.

But Wepner still threw a punch, and it was scored as a OFFICIAL knockdown.......

Vadrigar.
07-29-2010, 02:08 PM
But Wepner still threw a punch, and it was scored as a OFFICIAL knockdown.......

The punch did not cause him to go down and the official ruling was incorrect.

BoxingBoy claims to have a picture. I'll ask him to post it.

Decision
07-29-2010, 02:09 PM
The punch did not cause him to go down and the official ruling was incorrect.

So stepping on someone's foot automatically causes them to hit the floor?

Southpaw Great
07-29-2010, 02:11 PM
The punch did not cause him to go down and the official ruling was incorrect.

BoxingBoy claims to have a picture. I'll ask him to post it.

Wepner always said he knows for a fact the punch hit Ali, and all the off balance thing, was just milked to not damage Ali's reputation.

NChristo
07-29-2010, 02:15 PM
George Foreman was floored by Jimmy Young

Freddie Steele was floored by Indian Jimmy Rivers
(one of the only 2 people to knock Steele down and his record was 13-18-8).

Joeyzagz
07-29-2010, 02:15 PM
Henry Cooper & Chuck Wepner Floored Ali
Segundo Mercado Floored Bernard Hopkins
Kevin Howard Floored Ray Leonard

This question is for you or anyone out there who has actually SEEN Marvin Hagler's fights or know something from a reliable source...

Was he ever knocked down, and if so by who?

Southpaw Great
07-29-2010, 02:21 PM
This question is for you or anyone out there who has actually SEEN Marvin Hagler's fights or know something from a reliable source...

Was he ever knocked down, and if so by who?

Yeah Hagler was knocked down in the pro ranks by Juan Domingo Roldan. But to be honest it just looks like more of a strong push. It's on u tube.

Cassius Liston
07-29-2010, 02:24 PM
Antonio Tarver...........knocked out Roy Jones..
Glen Johnston...........knocked out Roy Jones..
Rustico Torrecampo.....knocked out Manny Pacquiao
Medgoen Singsurat...Knocked out Manny Pacquiao

Calilloyd
07-29-2010, 03:10 PM
So stepping on someone's foot automatically causes them to hit the floor?

Let somebody step on your foot while your moving backwards and find out.

Calilloyd
07-29-2010, 03:16 PM
Past primes, members from smaller weight classes, or journeymen who were on the cusp of being good fighters; If they floored a top ATG list them here.



Sonny Liston
*Was legitimately knocked off by the streaky Leotis Martin


Jack Dempsey
*Knocked out cold by Journeyman Jim Flynn

*Knocked down twice and through the ropes by Luis Firpo

*Floored by recent LHW Gene Tunney, who was not known for devastating power

Tunney shouldn't be on that list as an "average" fighter. Tony Galento had power but was pretty much an average fighter. Floored Joe Louis.

r.burgundy
07-29-2010, 03:24 PM
de valle dropped roy jones
oba carr,anthony stephens and yory campus all put tito on his ass
vaquez was a good fighter but he dropped winky about 5 or 6 times
torres dropped cotto
jr jones dropped barrera

Heru
07-29-2010, 03:28 PM
Antonio Tarver...........knocked out Roy Jones..
Glen Johnston...........knocked out Roy Jones..
Rustico Torrecampo.....knocked out Manny Pacquiao
Medgoen Singsurat...Knocked out Manny Pacquiao

They are not average. Tarver was a standout amateur who fought on the last great US Olympic team and was an Olympic Bronze medalist before knocking RJ TFO. Also, Hopkins and Chad Dawson are the 2 losses he couldn't avenge. Oh and 11 consecutive years ranked as a Ring top 10 Lt. Heavyweight in the world.

Johnson has been ranked in the Ring top 10 at 175 for 7 consecutive years and is still at #2 at 40+.

This is not average. An average career consists of no longevity in top 10 rankings. Look at boxrec and check how many fighters are in each division write all of those names down and see how many ever make the top 10. Journeymen are average, consistent contenders, former titlist, and especially former Ring, lineal champions are not.

Decision
07-29-2010, 03:28 PM
Let somebody step on your foot while your moving backwards and find out.

Still, to fall like Ali did, you'd have to be hit with a punch coming afterward.

Vadrigar.
07-29-2010, 03:47 PM
Wepner always said he knows for a fact the punch hit Ali, and all the off balance thing, was just milked to not damage Ali's reputation.

Absolutely false, Wepner knew exactly what he was doing with the foot placement, the punch had no effect. Ali's reputation isn't damaged anyway because it's easy to see what happened.


Once again I'll get Boxing Boy to post the picture. (if he has it)

Ziggy Stardust
07-29-2010, 03:50 PM
Jimmy Young dropped George Foreman
Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall dropped Lennox Lewis
Renaldo Snipes and Mike Weaver dropped Larry Holmes
Buster Douglas dropped Mike Tyson
Bert Cooper dropped Evander Holyfield
Andrew Golota dropped Riddick Bowe a number of times
Jauques Crecy, Pete Rademacher, and Roy Harris dropped Floyd Patterson

Poet

Junito-Rulez
07-29-2010, 03:56 PM
Jimmy Young dropped George Foreman
Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall dropped Lennox Lewis
Renaldo Snipes and Mike Weaver dropped Larry Holmes
Buster Douglas dropped Mike Tyson
Bert Cooper dropped Evander Holyfield
Andrew Golota dropped Riddick Bowe a number of times
Jauques Crecy, Pete Rademacher, and Roy Harris dropped Floyd Patterson

Poet

I don't know if Golota was really average. I think his talent was above average and his heart was below average.

Thread Stealer
07-29-2010, 04:00 PM
Narciso Valenzuela & Giorgio Campanella dropping Oscar De La Hoya
Kevin Lueshing dropping Felix Trinidad
Segundo Mercado twice dropping Bernard Hopkins


I'm referring to fighters more on a world class level when I say they're average (or perhaps below average). Obviously, looking at the sport as a whole, these guys are well above average.

Ziggy Stardust
07-29-2010, 04:01 PM
I don't know if Golota was really average. I think his talent was above average and his heart was below average.

He may have had the talent to be more than average but the final balance sheet on his career shows a lot of unreached potential.

Poet

Cassius Liston
07-29-2010, 04:11 PM
They are not average. Tarver was a standout amateur who fought on the last great US Olympic team and was an Olympic Bronze medalist before knocking RJ TFO. Also, Hopkins and Chad Dawson are the 2 losses he couldn't avenge. Oh and 11 consecutive years ranked as a Ring top 10 Lt. Heavyweight in the world.

Johnson has been ranked in the Ring top 10 at 175 for 7 consecutive years and is still at #2 at 40+.

This is not average. An average career consists of no longevity in top 10 rankings. Look at boxrec and check how many fighters are in each division write all of those names down and see how many ever make the top 10. Journeymen are average, consistent contenders, former titlist, and especially former Ring, lineal champions are not.

obviously not average..sorry i meant average compared to the person they put down...Jones was an ATG....Tarver and Glen are not

Calilloyd
07-29-2010, 04:34 PM
Still, to fall like Ali did, you'd have to be hit with a punch coming afterward.

No you don't.

The_Demon
07-29-2010, 05:02 PM
Kabary Salem and Byron Mitchell dropped Calzaghe

Felix jose hernandez dropped duran (a past it duran)

Decision
07-29-2010, 05:21 PM
No you don't.

Solid argument.

Kabary Salem and Byron Mitchell dropped Calzaghe

lol.. Calslappy isn't an all-time great.

Southpaw Great
07-29-2010, 05:23 PM
Kabary Salem and Byron Mitchell dropped Calzaghe

Felix jose hernandez dropped duran (a past it duran)

Joe Calzaghe ATG do?

The_Demon
07-29-2010, 05:25 PM
Joe Calzaghe ATG do?

Hes top 100 imo,I know their are many who dont agree

Calilloyd
07-29-2010, 06:56 PM
[QUOTE=Decision;8932529]Solid argument.






http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Chuck_Wepner

http://cpedia.com/wiki?q=Wepner&guess_ambig=Muhammad+Ali+Antonio+Inoki+Paul+Orndor ff+Chuck+Wepner+Landover+Victor+Galindez+Jimmy+You ng+defends

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=ali&num=9


Wepner kicked the bad habits, the unhealthy life and the sometimes bad associations. [14.2] "Ya got'a 'go ' da distance," he bellows out emotionally, with his own brand of sensitivity and strength. [14.3]

Wepner gives a extremely timely, valuable, educational and entertaining guide to how to go toe to toe with any foe. [14.4] Retains World Heavyweight Title. [14.5] Photos later reveal that Wepner stepped on Ali's foot as he was pulling away from a punch. [14.6]





Let me know if you need another "solid argument"

Decision
07-29-2010, 07:27 PM
Wepner kicked the bad habits, the unhealthy life and the sometimes bad associations. [14.2] "Ya got'a 'go ' da distance," he bellows out emotionally, with his own brand of sensitivity and strength. [14.3]

Wepner gives a extremely timely, valuable, educational and entertaining guide to how to go toe to toe with any foe. [14.4] Retains World Heavyweight Title. [14.5] Photos later reveal that Wepner stepped on Ali's foot as he was pulling away from a punch. [14.6]

Let me know if you need another "solid argument"

We've already established that he stepped on Ali's foot, genius. But the punch following the incident is what sent him down.

Please, provide a solid argument that it wasn't the punch that finally sent him down but in fact only the foot-stepping.

Calilloyd
07-29-2010, 07:34 PM
We've already established that he stepped on Ali's foot, genius. But the punch following the incident is what sent him down.

Please, provide a solid argument that it wasn't the punch that finally sent him down but in fact only the foot-stepping.

He was already going down before the punch landed "genius". A body punch at that. And you haven't established anything other than running your mouth about how the punch caused Ali to go down. Don't try to take credit for something you didn't point out. And I've already provided you with a solid argument. If you're not smart enough to understand it, that's your problem.

talip bin osman
07-29-2010, 07:44 PM
andy gannigan was able to floor alexis arguello...

and i dont know if its right to call esteban de jesus average but he floored duran twice in two different fights...

Joeyzagz
07-29-2010, 07:47 PM
Tunney shouldn't be on that list as an "average" fighter. Tony Galento had power but was pretty much an average fighter. Floored Joe Louis.

Gene Tunney is an ATG P4P but he did not have the extensive career at Heavyweight that Jack Dempsey did. Tunney was beaten and bloodied up by a middleweight, and then stepped up to floor the Heavyweight champ of the world.

It would be like if Michael SPinks floored Mike Tyson....
Jimmy Young dropped George Foreman
Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall dropped Lennox Lewis
Renaldo Snipes and Mike Weaver dropped Larry Holmes
Buster Douglas dropped Mike Tyson
Bert Cooper dropped Evander Holyfield
Andrew Golota dropped Riddick Bowe a number of times
Jauques Crecy, Pete Rademacher, and Roy Harris dropped Floyd Patterson

Poet

Im thinking about compiling a list for reference purposes, because boxrec rarely tells the whole story (the Mike Weaver KD isnt even listed there)

Also, some kd's may have actually been slips, and some Non-kd's or (push downs) are still the result of a fighter being wobbled badly, like Vitali in the Corrie Sanders match.

Anyone have a list for Joe Louis?

Decision
07-29-2010, 08:27 PM
He was already going down before the punch landed "genius". A body punch at that. And you haven't established anything other than running your mouth about how the punch caused Ali to go down. Don't try to take credit for something you didn't point out. And I've already provided you with a solid argument. If you're not smart enough to understand it, that's your problem.

You don't know if he was gonna go down if the punch didn't follow the foot-stepping. What everyone knows is that a punch landed, while Ali had his foot stepped on, and he went down. It's an official knockdown and nothing can change that.

You have provided nothing. You copy and pasted a Wikipedia article about something that was already said in this thread and that had nothing to do with what were talking about. I asked you to provide me a solid argument in which it could be proven that the foot-stepping alone caused Ali to go down, and you didn't do it.

Go Wikipedia "Stupidity".. genius.

$BloodyNate$
07-29-2010, 09:48 PM
Roger Mayweather knocked down Pernell Whitaker.

I don't think Roger Mayweather was that great, decent but not great.

Calilloyd
07-29-2010, 10:01 PM
You don't know if he was gonna go down if the punch didn't follow the foot-stepping. What everyone knows is that a punch landed, while Ali had his foot stepped on, and he went down. It's an official knockdown and nothing can change that.

You have provided nothing. You copy and pasted a Wikipedia article about something that was already said in this thread and that had nothing to do with what were talking about. I asked you to provide me a solid argument in which it could be proven that the foot-stepping alone caused Ali to go down, and you didn't do it.

Go Wikipedia "Stupidity".. genius.

Espn.com is not "wikipedia". Go look up the definition of gravity and balance since you're not intelligent enough to know what it means. And change the name of this your Alt to "bad decision" while you're at it.