View Full Version : greater legacy... dela hoya or calzaghe?


talip bin osman
07-27-2010, 10:31 AM
joe's most popular victories were against over the hill hopkins and jones but oscar got those kind of wins too against pea and jcc... so aside from those victories, who do u think has had the better career?

[poet682006]
07-27-2010, 10:37 AM
I'd say my brother Poet had a better boxing career than both he polished legends such as Alis penis after they fought

CarlosG815
07-27-2010, 10:46 AM
Oscar was the better fighter, will be remembered as the greater fighter, and should be ranked higher on any ATG list.

mrboxer
07-27-2010, 10:52 AM
joe's most popular victories were against over the hill hopkins and jones but oscar got those kind of wins too against pea and jcc... so aside from those victories, who do u think has had the better career?no doubt about it in my mind delahoya has had the better career,not to take anything away from joe as joe is a good fighter,but between the 2 oscar fought everyone in all those different weight classes and cleaned house,although he lost a few near the end of his career,against fighters i think he would of won in his prime,he still displayed good action throughout his hall of fame career:boxing:

Miburo
07-27-2010, 11:11 AM
Calzaghe will be remembered as greater because he's a national icon - DLH was only a box office icon.

$BloodyNate$
07-27-2010, 11:58 AM
^ LMAO that was funny.

This is not even close. Joe Calzaghe doesn't even deserve to be mentioned on the same piece of paper as Oscar De La Hoya. Oscar fought the best whenever he could. Joe waited til the end of their careers. Even though I still think Whitaker beat him, but Oscar and it's not even close. Bigger legacy, beat some real solid names through his career.

Think about this, without 40+ year olds Hopkins & Roy Jones, what would Joe Calzaghe's record look like? He won't wouldn't even make the top 200 greatest of all time. His biggest win that's even better then Hopkins & Roy Jones is Mikkel Kessller and I give him credit for that, but after that who the hell did he beat? Sakio Bika? Peter Manfredo? Get the **** out of here.

Sugarj
07-27-2010, 12:02 PM
Years from now De La Hoya will be better regarded in historic terms I'm sure.

Calzaghe was a great fighter with a superb record and longevity, undefeated too. The thing is........I just cant see a British southpaw (not perceived as being heavy handed.....to Americans at least!) being destined for boxing immortality in the view of most fans worldwide.

De La Hoya transgressed the sport for over 15 years fighting many top 10 pound for pound contenders!

Poor Joe barely transgressed Wales until the twilight of his career, not his fault of course. He certainly deserved his own pound for pound ranking (I've seen him as high as 3 at one point). He is one of the best Super middleweights of all time, probably has the best record at this weight too! He is certainly a HOF champion but I think history will be kinder to Oscar.

TheMagicMan
07-27-2010, 01:07 PM
Years from now De La Hoya will be better regarded in historic terms I'm sure.

Calzaghe was a great fighter with a superb record and longevity, undefeated too. The thing is........I just cant see a British southpaw (not perceived as being heavy handed.....to Americans at least!) being destined for boxing immortality in the view of most fans worldwide.

De La Hoya transgressed the sport for over 15 years fighting many top 10 pound for pound contenders!

Poor Joe barely transgressed Wales until the twilight of his career, not his fault of course. He certainly deserved his own pound for pound ranking (I've seen him as high as 3 at one point). He is one of the best Super middleweights of all time, probably has the best record at this weight too! He is certainly a HOF champion but I think history will be kinder to Oscar.

I agree, De La Hoya transgendered the sport, but Joe Calzaghe transgressed sports. Joe Calzaghe is an icon. he was never beat. Wow, good job De La Hoya...losing at least 6 times. Also I love how people are like, wellit was towards the end of his career etc...Joe C had more fights and was older when he fought Bhop and Jones Jr than when De La Hoya ended his career.

Bhop punished oscar and joe embarassed Bhop, forcing him to fake low blows and even mma dry humped him in the ring.

Oh and Oscar was 31 when he faced a 40 year old Bhop. Joe was 35 when he faced a 43 year old Bhop...

Man Joe C is the greatest of all time. OF ALL TIME. He never got beat. He couldnt even spar because his hands were gone, but he still won. he was past prime at 29, but still he won and people cant handle that.

GOD-FR33
07-27-2010, 01:24 PM
Hey man. This is a good post. One question I have for you though......"although he lost a few near the end of his career,against fighters i think he would of won in his prime,"

Who are you talking about here? PACQUIAO, MAYWEATHER? If so, I agree. OSCAR was awesome! He made millionaires out of a lot of fighters. He was very unselfish and humble. But, I've been watching a lot of his prime fights as of late...........OBA CARR, CAMPAS, MOSLEY 2, TRINIDAD, RUELAS, CASTIJAYO, QUARTEY. These are the type of fights that make you great and remembered in history. OSCAR knew this. This is what's missing today. He would have beaten MAYWEATHER comfortably and K.O.ed MANNY EASY! You agree?

KlownvonnomaD
07-27-2010, 01:24 PM
Well I'm gonna be one hated mo'fo but........

As far as I'm concerned De La Hoya is probably one of the most overrated fighters I've ever seen.
Now that DOESN'T mean I'm saying he was rubbish, but most people go on as if he's the GOAT. He's a decent fighter, but not even close to being the best of his generation let alone anything else.

I swear to god in 10 years or so if anyone is still talking about De La Hoya for any other reason than the Olympic Gold and Golden Boy Promotions. Then I'll go nuts.

Although saying that De La Hoya will have the greater legacy thanks to the Gold & the Promoting.

The_Demon
07-27-2010, 01:38 PM
De La Hoya has the greater legacy,calzaghe was the better fighter

turdleburgle
07-27-2010, 02:49 PM
joe won all his biggest fights and de la hoya lost all his so it's no comparison really.


de la hoya also lost several times and how many did joe lose?

CarlosG815
07-27-2010, 02:59 PM
joe won all his biggest fights and de la hoya lost all his so it's no comparison really.


de la hoya also lost several times and how many did joe lose?

Great analysis. Congrats, you're now the worst poster on this entire forum.

turdleburgle
07-27-2010, 03:12 PM
Great analysis. Congrats, you're now the worst poster on this entire forum.




no mate you and that sonny boy are the worst posters on here.atleast I dont hate on fighters because they come from a different country like you and he does.


and its true as joe did all his biggest fights.how many did de la hoya win?

CarlosG815
07-27-2010, 03:51 PM
no mate you and that sonny boy are the worst posters on here.atleast I dont hate on fighters because they come from a different country like you and he does.


and its true as joe did all his biggest fights.how many did de la hoya win?

I won't debate with you about the legacy of these two because you're out of your element and I don't have the time.

But I will let you know that Sonny is British, you dolt.

Sugarj
07-27-2010, 06:12 PM
You only have to see Oscar's record to see how many hall of famers he fought!

All the below were top ten pound for pound rated when he fought them. That he lost some (a few by split decision) is hardly a disgrace:

Julio Cesar Chavez

Pernell Whitaker

Ike Quartey

Felix Trinidad (very debatable loss)

Shane Mosley (twice, both very close)

Fernando Vargas

Bernard Hopkins (close fight until stoppage, well above Oscar's natural fighting weight)

Floyd Mayweather Jnr (very close fight in my opinion)


And thats not mentioning the likes of Hernandez, Leija, Carr, Gatti, Castillejo, Mayorga and Sturm and a few more who were decent world champions in their own right.

That he mixed in this company and more than acquitted himself well more than edges his resume over Calzaghe.


Calzaghe only fought one top ten pound for pound ranked fighter in his entire career and that was Hopkins. Eubank, Lacy, Kessler and Jones were certainly not pound for pound top ten when he faced them. He did face some half decent fighters in Woodhall, Reid, Mitchell and Brewer, but these weren't pound for pound rated.

Not Joe's fault, but lets just say that if he had met the mid to late 90s versions of Nigel Benn, Steve Collins, Roy Jones, James Toney, Montell Griffin OR dare I say Sven Ottke (in Germany at least you'd have to fancy a shocking points robbery!) at super middle or light heavy then his record might not have been so perfect.

I suppose the super middleweight division was a bit weak for Joe's era, not really any pound for pound superstars to face, again not Joe's fault but it will harm his legacy a bit.

SirTomJones
07-27-2010, 08:24 PM
Great analysis. Congrats, you're now the worst poster on this entire forum.

haha.

Great stufff.


Fight!!! :boxing:

Zig Zag.
07-27-2010, 08:27 PM
joe won all his biggest fights and de la hoya lost all his so it's no comparison really.


de la hoya also lost several times and how many did joe lose?

agreed.

_______________

carlos slim
07-27-2010, 08:37 PM
haha its not even close de la hoya....calzaghe is a ****in joke to be mentioned as great........

TheMagicMan
07-27-2010, 08:59 PM
You only have to see Oscar's record to see how many hall of famers he fought!

All the below were top ten pound for pound rated when he fought them. That he lost some (a few by split decision) is hardly a disgrace:

Julio Cesar Chavez

Pernell Whitaker

Ike Quartey

Felix Trinidad (very debatable loss)

Shane Mosley (twice, both very close)

Fernando Vargas

Bernard Hopkins (close fight until stoppage, well above Oscar's natural fighting weight)

Floyd Mayweather Jnr (very close fight in my opinion)


And thats not mentioning the likes of Hernandez, Leija, Carr, Gatti, Castillejo, Mayorga and Sturm and a few more who were decent world champions in their own right.

That he mixed in this company and more than acquitted himself well more than edges his resume over Calzaghe.


Calzaghe only fought one top ten pound for pound ranked fighter in his entire career and that was Hopkins. Eubank, Lacy, Kessler and Jones were certainly not pound for pound top ten when he faced them. He did face some half decent fighters in Woodhall, Reid, Mitchell and Brewer, but these weren't pound for pound rated.

Not Joe's fault, but lets just say that if he had met the mid to late 90s versions of Nigel Benn, Steve Collins, Roy Jones, James Toney, Montell Griffin OR dare I say Sven Ottke (in Germany at least you'd have to fancy a shocking points robbery!) at super middle or light heavy then his record might not have been so perfect.

I suppose the super middleweight division was a bit weak for Joe's era, not really any pound for pound superstars to face, again not Joe's fault but it will harm his legacy a bit.

You do realize its a lot easier for people at lighter weights to move divisions up and down and that p4p rankings tend to favor those 154 and below. Joe weighed 168 most of his career. Unfair to use p4p. If you define greatness using the p4p rankings then clearly Floyd is the best, he's beaten a ton of guys on the p4p list.

p4p lists are joke. Wlad is the most dominant champ in boxing and hes left off most lists...theyre a popularity contenst. I watch boxing, not was a buncha tards say. p4p who wins head to head Floyd or Vitali? If you have an answer youre an idiot. you shrink Vitali down to floyds size with vitali's power and reach? he kills floyd, you move floyd up to vitali's size with his speed and quickness and skill, he kills vitali. p4p is retarded.

talip bin osman
07-27-2010, 09:04 PM
You do realize its a lot easier for people at lighter weights to move divisions up and down and that p4p rankings tend to favor those 154 and below. Joe weighed 168 most of his career. Unfair to use p4p. If you define greatness using the p4p rankings then clearly Floyd is the best, he's beaten a ton of guys on the p4p list.

p4p lists are joke. Wlad is the most dominant champ in boxing and hes left off most lists...theyre a popularity contenst. I watch boxing, not was a buncha tards say. p4p who wins head to head Floyd or Vitali? If you have an answer youre an idiot. you shrink Vitali down to floyds size with vitali's power and reach? he kills floyd, you move floyd up to vitali's size with his speed and quickness and skill, he kills vitali. p4p is retarded.


but.... but... u made ur own ATG P4P list a few days ago?

blaze778
07-27-2010, 09:09 PM
I was happy to hear Calzaghe retiring because I thought people would finally stop talking about him. I was wrong.

Ziggy Stardust
07-27-2010, 09:21 PM
p4p is retarded.

So are fan-bois like you :yadayadayada9:

Poet

bojangles1987
07-27-2010, 10:05 PM
Oscar had better skills, fought far better fighters far more often, and was the most important man in the sport for a very long time. Oscar's legacy far surpasses Calzaghe's.

bojangles1987
07-27-2010, 10:09 PM
Well I'm gonna be one hated mo'fo but........

As far as I'm concerned De La Hoya is probably one of the most overrated fighters I've ever seen.
Now that DOESN'T mean I'm saying he was rubbish, but most people go on as if he's the GOAT. He's a decent fighter, but not even close to being the best of his generation let alone anything else.

I swear to god in 10 years or so if anyone is still talking about De La Hoya for any other reason than the Olympic Gold and Golden Boy Promotions. Then I'll go nuts.

Although saying that De La Hoya will have the greater legacy thanks to the Gold & the Promoting.

WHEN De La Hoya is still talked about in ten years, it will be because he was as good an example of what the face of boxing should be as there can be. Not only did he keep boxing relevant after Tyson's decline, he didn't let money and PPV and all that keep him from ALWAYS fighting the best.

CarlosG815
07-27-2010, 10:15 PM
Oscar had better skills, fought far better fighters far more often, and was the most important man in the sport for a very long time. Oscar's legacy far surpasses Calzaghe's.

Absolutely. Couldn't have said it any better.

HaglerSteelChin
07-27-2010, 11:13 PM
I have pretty much every fight these guys fought in and i am a fan of both. If you go by skill and talent it is close, but if you go by achievements-DLH wins hands down. Forget about the Gold medal DLH wins over guys like
Ruelas,Paez, Chavez(twice), Quartay,Whitaker, Vargas, and i felt he beat Mosley in the second fight.

He was clearly outboxing Tito until he ran out of gas; and it thought he did enough for atleast a draw.

He also had decent wins over guys Miguel Angel Gonzalez and Macho Camacho(pass his prime not shot).

DLH won in 6 weight classes- Calzaghe in 2. DLH FIRST fighter in history to win a 4th title while being undefeated- only Fenech who got robbed in the Nelson fight did that.

DLH could have stayed between 130-140 and stayed undefeated for a long time. It was because he challenged himself and moved up that he got losses.

Calzaghe had very close decisions in the Bakio and Robin Reid fights. He had great speed and a chin, but he came in an era where Steve Collins retired, Nigel Benn pass it, and he beat a pass prime Chris Eubank. He didn't fight Jones or Bhop when they were in prime. Took a long time before uniting his titles.

Don't get me wrong, i still think Joe is an all time great, he had the ingredients to give pretty much any fighter a game fight, but i rate DLH higher.

HaglerSteelChin
07-27-2010, 11:17 PM
WHEN De La Hoya is still talked about in ten years, it will be because he was as good an example of what the face of boxing should be as there can be. Not only did he keep boxing relevant after Tyson's decline, he didn't let money and PPV and all that keep him from ALWAYS fighting the best.

One thing i respect is a fighter win, lose , or draw fights everyone. Oscar took challenges many wouldn't take. He got a gift win against Sturm, but didnt go back down in weight and instead took on BHOP. Also he didn't on his bike and tried to use flurries and hand speed to get a gift decision, he fought and tried to win.

Win-lose- or draw look at many hall of famers he fought: Genaro Hernandez(possible HOF), Camacho, Chavez,Whitaker, Mosley, Trinidad, Hopkins,Mayweather, Pacquiao.

TheMagicMan
07-28-2010, 11:07 AM
I have pretty much every fight these guys fought in and i am a fan of both. If you go by skill and talent it is close, but if you go by achievements-DLH wins hands down. Forget about the Gold medal DLH wins over guys like
Ruelas,Paez, Chavez(twice), Quartay,Whitaker, Vargas, and i felt he beat Mosley in the second fight.

He was clearly outboxing Tito until he ran out of gas; and it thought he did enough for atleast a draw.

He also had decent wins over guys Miguel Angel Gonzalez and Macho Camacho(pass his prime not shot).

DLH won in 6 weight classes- Calzaghe in 2. DLH FIRST fighter in history to win a 4th title while being undefeated- only Fenech who got robbed in the Nelson fight did that.

DLH could have stayed between 130-140 and stayed undefeated for a long time. It was because he challenged himself and moved up that he got losses.

Calzaghe had very close decisions in the Bakio and Robin Reid fights. He had great speed and a chin, but he came in an era where Steve Collins retired, Nigel Benn pass it, and he beat a pass prime Chris Eubank. He didn't fight Jones or Bhop when they were in prime. Took a long time before uniting his titles.

Don't get me wrong, i still think Joe is an all time great, he had the ingredients to give pretty much any fighter a game fight, but i rate DLH higher.

First of all how can you punish Joe for the Reid fight where 2 judges had him winning 116-111....thats not close. The one who had Reid winning, is also the fraud who had Dimitrenko tied with Eddie Chambers. Again, thats not close, thats called an idiot judge. Again i challenge anyone to find 5 rounds Reid won in that fight, tehre are 4 that I could give to Reid being generous, and unless you were giving him 10-8's, theres no way he could have won.

And how could anyone think the Sakio Bika fight was close. If you think 117-110 is a "very close decision" then you must agree with me and think Ali was overrated trash. The only reason why Bika was even in the fight at all was because he was headbutting joe and cut his eye with a headbutt. that was it.

Joe is much better: beat
ATG- Jones
ATG-Hopkins
ATG- Eubank
Tons of top 10 opponents

And never lost a fight. GOAT.

Ziggy Stardust
07-28-2010, 01:55 PM
Joe beat:
A washed up Roy Jones
A clearly past it Bernard Hopkins
A washed up Chris Eubank

Tons of top 10 opponents in what was at the time the weakest division in boxing not to mention not fighting outside of the UK which is boxing's bush league.

And never fought a live opponent. Another Euro-fraud.

Fixed it for you :boxing:

Poet

elgaringo
07-28-2010, 02:08 PM
You only have to see Oscar's record to see how many hall of famers he fought!

All the below were top ten pound for pound rated when he fought them. That he lost some (a few by split decision) is hardly a disgrace:

Julio Cesar Chavez

Pernell Whitaker

Ike Quartey

Felix Trinidad (very debatable loss)

Shane Mosley (twice, both very close)

Fernando Vargas

Bernard Hopkins (close fight until stoppage, well above Oscar's natural fighting weight)

Floyd Mayweather Jnr (very close fight in my opinion)


And thats not mentioning the likes of Hernandez, Leija, Carr, Gatti, Castillejo, Mayorga and Sturm and a few more who were decent world champions in their own right.

That he mixed in this company and more than acquitted himself well more than edges his resume over Calzaghe.


Calzaghe only fought one top ten pound for pound ranked fighter in his entire career and that was Hopkins. Eubank, Lacy, Kessler and Jones were certainly not pound for pound top ten when he faced them. He did face some half decent fighters in Woodhall, Reid, Mitchell and Brewer, but these weren't pound for pound rated.

Not Joe's fault, but lets just say that if he had met the mid to late 90s versions of Nigel Benn, Steve Collins, Roy Jones, James Toney, Montell Griffin OR dare I say Sven Ottke (in Germany at least you'd have to fancy a shocking points robbery!) at super middle or light heavy then his record might not have been so perfect.

I suppose the super middleweight division was a bit weak for Joe's era, not really any pound for pound superstars to face, again not Joe's fault but it will harm his legacy a bit.

This is a very good post that you have sold me on! Tho history might be kinder to Calzaghe due to that 0! Time will tell.

Decision
07-28-2010, 03:50 PM
In my opinion, De La Hoya.

He won titles in more divisions and has wins (and should've had wins) over the better fighters when they weren't past it.

Joeyzagz
07-28-2010, 04:01 PM
Joe was a better winner than DLH, and shined in all of his biggest fights.

DLH lost to a weight drained BHOP, while Joe beat a fully hydrated 175 BHop.

Decision
07-28-2010, 04:08 PM
Joe was a better winner than DLH, and shined in all of his biggest fights.

DLH lost to a weight drained BHOP, while Joe beat a fully hydrated 175 BHop.

No shame in DLH losing to Hopkins. He did, after all, start his career at 130.

It was a much easier fight for Calzaghe, as he fought most of his career at a higher weight than Hopkins himself.

Hopkins was also 4 years older than when he fought DLH and was in his 40s.