View Full Version : Who was the best white heavy weight?


Forza
07-25-2010, 09:59 PM
Not including the klitchko brothers because they are both still fighting

Ziggy Stardust
07-25-2010, 10:01 PM
Dempsey :boxing:

Southpaw Great
07-25-2010, 10:04 PM
http://top-10-list.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Rocky-Marciano.jpg

Southpaw Great
07-25-2010, 10:05 PM
And BTW why are George Chuvalo & Tommy Morrison on there? Were is Jim Jeffries?

Forza
07-25-2010, 10:26 PM
jeffries was way before my time lol.

Chuvalo was a tough SOB who took it to ali and tommy morrison had one of the sweetest left hooks ever.

Obama
07-25-2010, 11:19 PM
Chuvalo and Morrison have no business on the list. They couldn't hold the jockstrap of Primo Carnera even.

If I'm rating White Heavyweights in order it'd go like this:


Dempsey
Marciano
Jeffries
J. Sharkey
Schmeling
Tunney
Fitzsimmons
Corbett
Baer
Sullivan
Burns
Carnera
Johansson
Fulton
T. Sharkey
Farr
Choynski


Klitschkos are going to break the top 10 tho.

Steelhammer2011
07-26-2010, 12:27 AM
1. Klitschko
2. Klitschko
3. Marciano
4. Dempsey
5. Jeffries

fugu
07-26-2010, 12:31 AM
Tommy Morrison? :)

I would have to side with Dempsey out of these guys.

RimmyDelicious
07-26-2010, 12:50 AM
1. Klitschko
2. Klitschko
3. Marciano
4. Dempsey
5. Jeffries

I might go...

Vitali
Wlad
Jeffries
Marciano
Dempsey

THE_BIG_HURT
07-26-2010, 12:51 AM
Chuvalo and Morrison have no business on the list. They couldn't hold the jockstrap of Primo Carnera even.

If I'm rating White Heavyweights in order it'd go like this:


Dempsey
Marciano
Jeffries
J. Sharkey
Schmeling
Tunney
Fitzsimmons
Corbett
Baer
Sullivan
Burns
Carnera
Johansson
Fulton
T. Sharkey
Farr
Choynski


Klitschkos are going to break the top 10 tho.

I voted Dempsey

and I agree with most of your list. especially the top 10

Obama
07-26-2010, 12:53 AM
Dempsey getting little love here. Sad. He ducked dudes but his resume is still far superior to Marciano's. So was his physical ability...

Marciano was slow and short in arm length and height. He also practically went out of his way to avoid the larger rated Heavyweights of his day.

Joeyzagz
07-26-2010, 01:14 AM
1. Rocky Marciano
2. Jack Dempsey
3. Jeff Jeffries
4. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. Vitali Kilitschko
6. Gene Tunney
7. George Chuvalo
8. Max Baer
9. Max Schmelling
10. Tommy Morrison

Wlad never beat anyone as good as George Foreman so Morrison gets the slight edge over him.

Stone Roses!
07-26-2010, 01:17 AM
1. Jack Dempsey
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Gene Tunney

Spartacus Sully
07-26-2010, 01:24 AM
Jeffries
Marciano
Dempsey
Fitzsimmons

sonnyboyx2
07-26-2010, 03:31 AM
Jerry Quarry

Obama
07-26-2010, 04:34 AM
Jerry Quarry

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

BEEHOP
07-26-2010, 05:46 AM
1. Rocky Marciano
2. Jack Dempsey
3. Jeff Jeffries
4. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. Vitali Kilitschko
6. Gene Tunney
7. George Chuvalo
8. Max Baer
9. Max Schmelling
10. Tommy Morrison

Wlad never beat anyone as good as George Foreman so Morrison gets the slight edge over him.
Are you serious??

Why is Vitali rated higher than Wlad?
Wlad has twice the resume of Vitali.

T.Horton
07-26-2010, 08:22 AM
There is only one of two answers: Jeffries or Marciano.

T.Horton
07-26-2010, 08:23 AM
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:Jerry Quarry was a pretty slick fighter.

Cassius Liston
07-26-2010, 08:29 AM
Jerry Quarry was a pretty slick fighter.

i have to go with jeffrie and indeed Jerry was a really good fighter....he faced the greatest...the likes of Frazier and Ali not many people can say that

Ziggy Stardust
07-26-2010, 08:30 AM
Are you serious??

Why is Vitali rated higher than Wlad?
Wlad has twice the resume of Vitali.

Maybe beacuse Vitali is twice the fighter?

Poet

Cassius Liston
07-26-2010, 08:34 AM
Maybe beacuse Vitali is twice the fighter?

Poet

Indeed...the display Vitali showed against Lewis....that single fight shatters Wlads resume

GJC
07-26-2010, 08:42 AM
He also practically went out of his way to avoid the larger rated Heavyweights of his day.

Wasn't much around in his day for sure but I think he fought who he should, few guys missing from his resume but IMO opinion they were timing issues rather than ducks

Ziggy Stardust
07-26-2010, 08:51 AM
Wasn't much around in his day for sure but I think he fought who he should, few guys missing from his resume but IMO opinion they were timing issues rather than ducks

And in truth you can do that with practically any ATG fighter other than maybe Ali. You can peruse any great champions resume and find guys he could have fought but didn't.

Poet

Rolaz
07-26-2010, 08:54 AM
Rocky Marciano

His undefeated Record(49-0) with a very high percentage of KO wins
remains unequalled up to present time.

KlownvonnomaD
07-26-2010, 09:04 AM
I've gotta go Dempsey more skilled as a boxer, as for Rocky he is questionable. Undoubtedly a good fighter, you've gotta believe the mob bought him a few of those wins.

Ziggy Stardust
07-26-2010, 09:07 AM
I've gotta go Dempsey more skilled as a boxer, as for Rocky he is questionable. Undoubtedly a good fighter, you've gotta believe the mob bought him a few of those wins.

Without hard evidence I don't "gotta believe" anything at all. Gossip doesn't feed the bulldog.

Poet

T.Horton
07-26-2010, 09:13 AM
Without hard evidence I don't "gotta believe" anything at all. Gossip doesn't feed the bulldog.

Poettechnically, as has been reported in many books, Marciano was not undefeated as a pro. Not exactly the same as what DarkOrchid is saying but still...

GJC
07-26-2010, 09:20 AM
He's Italian the mob was heavily active in boxing at the time, 2+2 = 5.
Reminds me of a favourite joke of mine

The professor answered, "Let me give you an example. Do you own a weed eater?"

"I sure do," answered the redneck.

"Then I can assume, using logic, that you have a yard," replied the professor.

"That's real good," the redneck responded in awe.

The professor continued, "Logic also tells me that since you have a yard, you also have a house."

Impressed, the redneck shouted, "GAWL-LEEE!!"

"And since you own a house, and a house is tough to take care of by yourself, logic dictates that you have a wife."

"Betty Mae! This is incredible!" (Bubba is obviously catching on.)

"Finally, since you have a wife, logically I can assume that you are heterosexual rather than homosexual," said the professor.

"You're absolutely right! Why that's the most fascinatin' thang I ever heard of. I can't wait to take this here logic class."

Bubba, proud of the new world opening up to him, walked back into the hallway where Cooter is still waiting.

"So what classes are ya takin?" he asks.

"Math, history, and logic," replies Bubba.

"What in tarnation is logic?"

"Let me give you an example. Do ya own a weed-eater?"

"No."

"You're a queer, ain't ya?"

Ziggy Stardust
07-26-2010, 09:25 AM
He's Italian the mob was heavily active in boxing at the time, 2+2 = 5.
Reminds me of a favourite joke of mine

The professor answered, "Let me give you an example. Do you own a weed eater?"

"I sure do," answered the redneck.

"Then I can assume, using logic, that you have a yard," replied the professor.

"That's real good," the redneck responded in awe.

The professor continued, "Logic also tells me that since you have a yard, you also have a house."

Impressed, the redneck shouted, "GAWL-LEEE!!"

"And since you own a house, and a house is tough to take care of by yourself, logic dictates that you have a wife."

"Betty Mae! This is incredible!" (Bubba is obviously catching on.)

"Finally, since you have a wife, logically I can assume that you are heterosexual rather than homosexual," said the professor.

"You're absolutely right! Why that's the most fascinatin' thang I ever heard of. I can't wait to take this here logic class."

Bubba, proud of the new world opening up to him, walked back into the hallway where Cooter is still waiting.

"So what classes are ya takin?" he asks.

"Math, history, and logic," replies Bubba.

"What in tarnation is logic?"

"Let me give you an example. Do ya own a weed-eater?"

"No."

"You're a queer, ain't ya?"

:rofl9: :rofl9: :rofl9: :rofl9:

Sugarj
07-26-2010, 11:53 AM
That raised a chuckle out of me too GJC!!!

GJC
07-26-2010, 12:18 PM
That raised a chuckle out of me too GJC!!!
You'll only encourage me :)
Am worried that given the reading comprehension of some on here i'll probably be accused of calling Marciano gay now!

Obama
07-26-2010, 08:08 PM
Jerry Quarry was a pretty slick fighter.

Slick is the wrong word.

And in truth you can do that with practically any ATG fighter other than maybe Ali. You can peruse any great champions resume and find guys he could have fought but didn't.

Poet

Aye, but that's not the case with Marciano. Marciano didn't duck the best. He just ducked people he was too short and too slow to reach with his small ass reach.

T.Horton
07-27-2010, 12:19 AM
Slick is the wrong word.



Aye, but that's not the case with Marciano. Marciano didn't duck the best. He just ducked people he was too short and too slow to reach with his small ass reach.OK - he was a head first brawler who had slick moments against the right opposition. Better? :)

Obama
07-27-2010, 12:44 AM
OK - he was a head first brawler who had slick moments against the right opposition. Better? :)

Yea, he had moments. Much better. Just as long as you know thats all they were, moments.

Toney616
07-27-2010, 02:27 PM
Aye, but that's not the case with Marciano. Marciano didn't duck the best. He just ducked people he was too short and too slow to reach with his small ass reach.[
Can you elaborate on this?

titanium
07-28-2010, 03:26 PM
Chuvalo and Morrison have no business on the list. They couldn't hold the jockstrap of Primo Carnera even.

If I'm rating White Heavyweights in order it'd go like this:


Dempsey
Marciano
Jeffries
J. Sharkey
Schmeling
Tunney
Fitzsimmons
Corbett
Baer
Sullivan
Burns
Carnera
Johansson
Fulton
T. Sharkey
Farr
Choynski


Klitschkos are going to break the top 10 tho.

I like this, I might make changes but the list is respectable.

T.Horton
07-28-2010, 03:38 PM
Yea, he had moments. Much better. Just as long as you know thats all they were, moments.thanks for the lesson. :hail:

BEEHOP
07-28-2010, 03:39 PM
Maybe beacuse Vitali is twice the fighter?

Poet

Vitali is incredibly overrated here.

Wlad is by far better.

BOXING 24/7
07-28-2010, 03:40 PM
http://www.better-than-energy-drinks.com/images/butterbean_esch.jpg

BB will knock da Klits heads off!!

Ziggy Stardust
07-28-2010, 04:28 PM
Vitali is incredibly overrated here.

Wlad is by far better.

If anything Vitali's little sister Wlad is the one who gets overrated. People are confusing Wlad's polish with substance. Vitali is tougher, has a FAR better chin, has FAR better stamina, and a FAR higher work rate. Translation: He's a FAR better fighter. Put Wlad in against Vitali and Vitali wins 10 out of 10 times.

Poet

1SILVA
07-28-2010, 04:59 PM
Not including the klitchko brothers because they are both still fighting

Duane Bobick
Scott Ledoux
Kallie Knoetzee
Gerry Cooney
Ron Stander
Jean Pierre coopman
Rudi Lubbers
Tony Galento
Randy Cobb
Brian London

Tiozzo
08-01-2010, 11:26 AM
Chuvalo and Morrison have no business on the list. They couldn't hold the jockstrap of Primo Carnera even.

If I'm rating White Heavyweights in order it'd go like this:


Dempsey
Marciano
Jeffries
J. Sharkey
Schmeling
Tunney
Fitzsimmons
Corbett
Baer
Sullivan
Burns
Carnera
Johansson
Fulton
T. Sharkey
Farr
Choynski


Klitschkos are going to break the top 10 tho.

solid list

BennyST
08-01-2010, 01:09 PM
He's Italian the mob was heavily active in boxing at the time, 2+2 = 5.
Reminds me of a favourite joke of mine

The professor answered, "Let me give you an example. Do you own a weed eater?"

"I sure do," answered the redneck.

"Then I can assume, using logic, that you have a yard," replied the professor.

"That's real good," the redneck responded in awe.

The professor continued, "Logic also tells me that since you have a yard, you also have a house."

Impressed, the redneck shouted, "GAWL-LEEE!!"

"And since you own a house, and a house is tough to take care of by yourself, logic dictates that you have a wife."

"Betty Mae! This is incredible!" (Bubba is obviously catching on.)

"Finally, since you have a wife, logically I can assume that you are heterosexual rather than homosexual," said the professor.

"You're absolutely right! Why that's the most fascinatin' thang I ever heard of. I can't wait to take this here logic class."

Bubba, proud of the new world opening up to him, walked back into the hallway where Cooter is still waiting.

"So what classes are ya takin?" he asks.

"Math, history, and logic," replies Bubba.

"What in tarnation is logic?"

"Let me give you an example. Do ya own a weed-eater?"

"No."

"You're a queer, ain't ya?"

Hyuk hyuk hyuk!

cameronpaul
08-01-2010, 02:30 PM
what was jeffries record, i saw on wikipedia that he only faught 20 odd times. i know this probably aint true. wondered if anyone knew much about him.

them_apples
08-01-2010, 02:48 PM
It's Rocky

AddiX
08-01-2010, 05:59 PM
When Wlads career is over, he will have the same problem Rocky does. He won't have the big names to help his legacy.

As much as everyone loves Rocky, truth is his biggest named wins were against guys who were beyond washed up.

Without the names you can only be so good.

Jim Jeffries
08-01-2010, 07:03 PM
what was jeffries record, i saw on wikipedia that he only faught 20 odd times. i know this probably aint true. wondered if anyone knew much about him.

22 fights isn't too bad when 9 of them are against HOFers and you're able to come away with 7-1-1 in those, the sole loss coming after 6 years without a fight against a prime top 5 ATG HW.

Depends how you determine greatness. Dempsey attracted a lot of people to the sport because of his exciting, ferocious style. Likewise with Marciano, who also has the added "only HW champ to retire undefeated" thing going for him. But Jeffries is definitely underrated these days.

Joeyzagz
08-01-2010, 08:57 PM
When Wlads career is over, he will have the same problem Rocky does. He won't have the big names to help his legacy.

As much as everyone loves Rocky, truth is his biggest named wins were against guys who were beyond washed up.

Without the names you can only be so good.

Rocky has big names: Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Joe Louis, and Joe Walcott are all either top 20 HW or top 50 p4p ATG.

Beating a 39 year old JOE LOUIS is way more impressive than beating a 41 year old Ray Mercer, or 36 year old Ray Austin. Rock should be in everybodies Top 5.

Jim Jeffries
08-01-2010, 09:27 PM
Rocky has big names: Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Joe Louis, and Joe Walcott are all either top 20 HW or top 50 p4p ATG.

Beating a 39 year old JOE LOUIS is way more impressive than beating a 41 year old Ray Mercer, or 36 year old Ray Austin. Rock should be in everybodies Top 5.

Joe Louis was only 37, but was considered quite a bit past it 4 years after needing a gift to get by Walcott. Charles, Moore and Walcott are all considered better wins, even though the latter two were even older at the time.

As for Wlad, Mercer is only worth mentioning because Wlad was the first to stop him, it's not one of his top two wins, and I'm not sure why you'd even bring up Ray Austin, who was a mandatory that Wlad took out of there in less than two rounds without throwing a single right hand. Yes it is doubtful that Wlad has the competition out there to surpass Marciano, who has become a sentimental favorite, unless he fights quite a bit longer.

Joeyzagz
08-01-2010, 10:50 PM
Joe Louis was only 37, but was considered quite a bit past it 4 years after needing a gift to get by Walcott. Charles, Moore and Walcott are all considered better wins, even though the latter two were even older at the time.



Joe Louis was still very dangerous and KO'd Lee savold in a more devastating fashion than Rock did only months later. If Rock hadnt stopped him Joe, Joe probably wouldve continued winning well into the Liston era.

Rocky is heads and shoulders above Tyson, Frazier & Dempsey. His win resume' looks like a damn hall of fame ceremony.

hhascup
08-02-2010, 11:21 PM
Here's the top 4 in my opinion:



Dempsey
Marciano
Jeffries
Tunney

MeccaOfBoxing
08-02-2010, 11:30 PM
Here's the top 4 in my opinion:



Dempsey
Marciano
Jeffries
Tunney


What gives Dempsey the edge over Marciano in your list?

hhascup
08-02-2010, 11:45 PM
What gives Dempsey the edge over Marciano in your list?

In 1950, the sports writers picked Dempsey as the best boxer in the 1st half century. In the early 1960's, 40 boxing writers from the Ring Magazine rated Dempsey #1, with Louis #2. Up until the mid 1960's, Dempsey was still considered the best heavyweight ever. After that, it was Louis and now for the last couple of decades, it's Ali.

Everyone I ever talked to that saw both, stated that Dempsey was better. They would say, anything Rocky could do, Dempsey could do better. I learned a long time ago to listen to people that really know what there talking about.

I am tyler
08-04-2010, 02:18 PM
got to be the Rock.

irishdude
08-06-2010, 05:47 AM
Marciano would have made mince dust of the Klitschkos. If Tyson came back today and proplerly trained, I can see him taking out the klitschkos- Vlad VS Vitali is like Manny meeting Mayweather, ain't gonna happen.

Todays HWs are crap, the Klitschkos are the only 2 good around. If Lewis had met Vlad and Vitali in 6 months in 2000, Lewis woulda won booth.

PS, how come Ali isn't there, his grandmother (on is mothers side) was white :D

paulf
08-06-2010, 06:27 AM
Rocky was 5'10 and came in at 180-185 pounds.

Vitali is 6'7 and comes in at 250.

Vitali has 9 inches inches and 65 pounds on Rock. It probably wouldn't be close.

Times have changed, training methods have improved over the years. Even if the current state of the division is pretty sad. Rocky would be fighting Calzaghe and Bhop if he were fighting today.

Saying that, Rocky probably had it a lot harded than Vitali has in terms of competition. So whos better? Who deserves more of our respect?

Who cares. They're two of the best heavyweights that ever lived.

War white people.