View Full Version : Foreman vs. Ali - Foreman Fought Like a Bum


jabsRstiff
07-15-2005, 09:15 AM
ESPN Classic just aired (for the 357th time) the "Rumble In The Jungle" Ali-Foreman.

It never ceases to amaze me justhow inept George Foreman looked in that fight.
You can say Ali made him look that way.....but, Ali did virtually nothing....& Foreman looked like a complete idiot.
He looked like a big mummy, pushing his fists, pawing with them, while stumbling forward.

He looked like a drunk who was dragged out of the audience to fight !
To this day, it remains one of the most embarrassing performances in Heavyweight Championship history.

LuKahnLi
07-15-2005, 01:11 PM
I don't know WHY ESPN classic feels obligated to air that fight once a week.

If they are so fixated on Ali, why not the Thrilla in Manila? Or Ali-Cooper?

If its George they are fixated on, why not Foreman-Lyle?

sonofisis
07-15-2005, 02:14 PM
I honestly think that in the first time in foreman's career, he was discouraged and intimidated.. because he sure didn't fight Frazier that way.. :)

Boxclever
07-15-2005, 02:25 PM
I've seen a few interviews where he says he injured his hand in training and it affected him, dunno if it's just an excuse or not.

jabsRstiff
07-15-2005, 02:35 PM
I honestly think that in the first time in foreman's career, he was discouraged and intimidated.. because he sure didn't fight Frazier that way.. :)


frazier went right to Foreman....walking to George.
George just either pushed him off or blasted him.

Ali made Foreman think a little bit, & Foreman couldn't think & fight at the same time.

As for George being injured.....a hurt hand won't make you stumble & flail like a drunken bum.


God, has any fighter just lost ? Enough with the excuses !

Boxclever
07-15-2005, 02:41 PM
You ARE probably right, just thought it was worth a mention :p

chopper77
07-15-2005, 03:24 PM
I read an interview with George, and he said that his trainer qould not let him drink water. He wanted him cut, and lean. I personaly think that is a BS excuse. How can you say Ali did nothing? He worked George like he worked other guys. In the "Sweet Science" Ali was truly the professor.

Easy-E
07-15-2005, 06:45 PM
When seeing this fight for the first time, i remembered it as foreman throwing tons of punches and dominating the fight until ali got him tired. However, after watching this fight about five more times, i believe ali was winning the fight just before he knocked him down. He was talking to george, intimidating him and throwing jabs and 1-2 combinations to score points while moving around alot in the early rounds. In the later rounds he was connecting solidly while foreman was pawing at him and trying to create room for one big punch to change the fight. I also believe foreman got frustrated a little, which also took him off his game.
Also, perhaps all the trash talk before the fight got to foreman's head, which is why he didnt try to walk through ali like he did to foreman

anwaryussuf81
07-15-2005, 07:58 PM
Ali didn't have to do much but cover up while he was on the ropes during the fight. Ali just let foreman punch himself out and when he got so tired, Ali threw combos and laid foreman flat. Foreman was so tired, he couldn't get up. Foreman did 50% of the work for Ali and Ali did the rest to get the knockout. Ali was the first and only smart fighter that fought Foreman up to that point.

roberson2u
07-15-2005, 09:29 PM
ESPN Classic does need to show some different fights

They love the Rumble In The Jungle

Skydog
07-15-2005, 10:13 PM
I would be scared as hell to be Ali going into "Rumble In The Jungle".

Foreman said that he really wanted to take Ali's life in that match so people would start appreciating Foreman. I don't think Foreman's performance was bad, he just got overtired afterawhile and got destroyed by one of the meanest combinations I've ever seen.

My favorite part of the match is at the very end of either round 4 or 5 where Ali staggers Foreman with 4 hooks: left, right, left, right. Some of the quickest hits in history.

Foreman
07-16-2005, 02:26 AM
An unusual confluence of events made Ali's win possible. Foreman getting cut in training and not being allowed to leave the country. Very loose ropes. The possibility of Foreman having been drugged before the fight. Ali's trainer, Angelo Dundee believes that he was. And really was George's game plan all that bad? Nobody could have expected a fighter to last 8 rds with Foreman by just standing there and taking punishment. There was a fair amount of luck involved that Ali avoided taking a shot that he couldn't take. That Ali refused to give Foreman a rematch speaks volumes of what Ali thought of his chances.

pugay_kamay
07-16-2005, 03:32 AM
ESPN Classic just aired (for the 357th time) the "Rumble In The Jungle" Ali-Foreman.

It never ceases to amaze me justhow inept George Foreman looked in that fight.
You can say Ali made him look that way.....but, Ali did virtually nothing....& Foreman looked like a complete idiot.
He looked like a big mummy, pushing his fists, pawing with them, while stumbling forward.

He looked like a drunk who was dragged out of the audience to fight !
To this day, it remains one of the most embarrassing performances in Heavyweight Championship history.
Ali vs. Foreman bout is just like a match between an amatuer debut for aspiring boxers (in the case of Foreman) againts a professional boxer whose fighting career is more than 20!

A scientific approach against barbaric approach. Which do you think will succeed?

tommyhearns804
07-16-2005, 05:02 PM
Foreman looked like all fighters do when they get ****y and think they can't lose.He didnt look like a bum.Tyson being knocked out by a Douglas is far worse than Foreman being ****y and losing to a hall of fame boxer.Ali was no smarter than Norton or lets say a guy like Peralta.The only difference is i am sure Foreman respected both Norton and Peralta.He had no respect at all for Ali and thought he would win when he landed the first big punch.Ali did nothing smart the whole fight.He just realize Foreman was to quick on his feet to outbox so he layed against the ropes praying Foreman got tired.Is that smart?Nope just a desperate plan to beat somebody who was better than he was.It worked that night.Does that mean Foreman couldnt box?Does that mean Foreman always got tired?No Foreman had 80 fights and was only tired in the Ali and Young fight.1 fight does not defind Foremans career.But Espn classic is obsessed with showing any fight Ali won.They forget the bouts when he has his ass handed to him.I only remember seeing the Ali Norton one time.I never seen the other 2 times they fight.They never show Shavers beating Ali and getting robbed.They never show Ali losing to Young but every single weed it seems like they show Ali beating Foreman.

tommyhearns804
07-16-2005, 05:08 PM
And one more thing if Ali was such a smart boxer and so skilled then why does he have brain damage now and Foreman doesnt?Is it funny that Ali has brain damage?Nope .But it shows my point.Either Ali didnt have a better thin than Foreman or Ali was a dumb fighter.Smart fighters dont keep fighting when bums like Leon Spinks could beat them.Smart fighters dont keep their hands low and let guys like Cooper floor them with one punch.
Ali looked impressive when he was fighting guys like Chuvalo who came right at him slow.But when he started fighting better fighters like Norton Lyle Frazier ect ect ect you how flawed of a fighter he was.Fast hands and a big heart and a quick mouth but he lacked so many other things

Skydog
07-16-2005, 09:43 PM
Foreman looked like all fighters do when they get ****y and think they can't lose.He didnt look like a bum.Tyson being knocked out by a Douglas is far worse than Foreman being ****y and losing to a hall of fame boxer.Ali was no smarter than Norton or lets say a guy like Peralta.The only difference is i am sure Foreman respected both Norton and Peralta.He had no respect at all for Ali and thought he would win when he landed the first big punch.Ali did nothing smart the whole fight.He just realize Foreman was to quick on his feet to outbox so he layed against the ropes praying Foreman got tired.Is that smart?Nope just a desperate plan to beat somebody who was better than he was.It worked that night.Does that mean Foreman couldnt box?Does that mean Foreman always got tired?No Foreman had 80 fights and was only tired in the Ali and Young fight.1 fight does not defind Foremans career.But Espn classic is obsessed with showing any fight Ali won.They forget the bouts when he has his ass handed to him.I only remember seeing the Ali Norton one time.I never seen the other 2 times they fight.They never show Shavers beating Ali and getting robbed.They never show Ali losing to Young but every single weed it seems like they show Ali beating Foreman.

If you're gonna diss Ali in his fight against Norton, then you can just take a walk. Any man who can go 12 full rounds with a broken jaw is ungodly. And Ali did just that. Now if Ali had broken Norton's jaw in the first round, things would have been different. And not only did Ali go the distance with a shattered jaw, but he came back and beat Norton in a rematch.

And your calling Ali lucky against Foreman. He stated that was his plan before the match. "I ain't never seen George Foreman get tired, breathe heavily, get winded and try to fight." So no, he didn't get lucky at all.

Pinoy_Texan
07-17-2005, 04:34 AM
Foreman fought that fight they way he usually did. He tried to intimidate his opponent with his power. Plus you gotta keep in mind that Foreman before that fight had never fought for that long. So he was threading unknown waters, while Ali owned the championship rounds.

tommyhearns804
07-18-2005, 10:26 PM
Cute Skydog.Ali fought with a broken jaw.Your point is?Foreman fought with a broken nose so did alot of other fighters.The point is Norton beat him 3 times and got robbed in 2 of those fights.You never see Espn Classic have a day giving respect to any other heavyweight from the 70's but Ali.
And Ali did not say he was going to lay against the ropes and get Foreman tired before the fight.What Ali are you talking about?I think Ali knows what he was trying to do better than you do.In "The Life and Times or Ali" or whatever that book is called he clearly stated he was going to try to box Foreman.But once he got in the ring and tried this he realized Foreman was way to quick on his feet for him to outbox.Ali also said he knew he couldnt try to do anything while Foreman was fresh because Foreman hit to hard and he would be knocked out.Hoping somebody gets tired isnt a strategy.Foreman could of just backed away and boxed like he always boxed.Ali knew he was lucky to win and that is why he never gave Foreman a re-match.He fought Frazier 3 times Norton 3 times Liston 2 times Patterson 2 times Quarry 2 times Chuvalo 2 times Spinks 2 times but Foreman had to fight 5 more fights trying to get Ali to fight him again.Douglas beat Tyson but do you think he could do it again?Louis was destroyed by Schmeling but Louis got a chance to show he was the better man.
But anyway as i said they could show other fighters from the 70's or they could show Ali getting beat instead of trying to make a fool out of Foreman all of the time.

shortright
08-03-2005, 10:30 PM
forman had holes in his game, ali exposed them, your right espn classic shows way to much Ali

Dude
08-03-2005, 11:38 PM
Cute Skydog.Ali fought with a broken jaw.Your point is?Foreman fought with a broken nose so did alot of other fighters.The point is Norton beat him 3 times and got robbed in 2 of those fights.You never see Espn Classic have a day giving respect to any other heavyweight from the 70's but Ali.
And Ali did not say he was going to lay against the ropes and get Foreman tired before the fight.What Ali are you talking about?I think Ali knows what he was trying to do better than you do.In "The Life and Times or Ali" or whatever that book is called he clearly stated he was going to try to box Foreman.But once he got in the ring and tried this he realized Foreman was way to quick on his feet for him to outbox.Ali also said he knew he couldnt try to do anything while Foreman was fresh because Foreman hit to hard and he would be knocked out.Hoping somebody gets tired isnt a strategy.Foreman could of just backed away and boxed like he always boxed.Ali knew he was lucky to win and that is why he never gave Foreman a re-match.He fought Frazier 3 times Norton 3 times Liston 2 times Patterson 2 times Quarry 2 times Chuvalo 2 times Spinks 2 times but Foreman had to fight 5 more fights trying to get Ali to fight him again.Douglas beat Tyson but do you think he could do it again?Louis was destroyed by Schmeling but Louis got a chance to show he was the better man.
But anyway as i said they could show other fighters from the 70's or they could show Ali getting beat instead of trying to make a fool out of Foreman all of the time.

Now I do see where you're coming from and I agree with you upon some views but Norton never beat Ali three times. Their 2nd and 3rd encouters were close but rightfully went Alis way. I've seen them and scored them myself more than once. In my opinion Norton DID NOT beat Ali more than once. However I know and acknowledge that there are other and valid opinions of these fights. Point being, it is not right to say as a fact Norton beat Ali three times.

And don't you think that is a little harsh to blame an up and rising young star for getting a little overconfident? He got hit by Cooper, he went down but he won that fight the next round and learnt his lesson.

Further I'd be very interessted in your scoring of the Shavers-Ali bout. Which rounds did you give to Earnie and based on what? Calling this fight a robbery is way over the top.

Btw. the Ali-Spinks bout got Fight of the year honours. Though there might have been better bouts this year that is an accomplishment most HW boxers can't achieve their whole career. I don't have to remind you that this fight wasn't totally onedimensional either?

Of course Ali should've retired way earlier. But a lot of other greats should've done that as well. I wish he had done so however I respect his dedication to this sport, his heart and his toughness enough for not calling him dumb. He was licensed to fight and sure he needed some money but through it all he was still competitive.

I consider Ali past his prime when he beat Foreman. Foreman lost that fight more than Ali winning it. However you have to give Ali credit for taking all these bodyshots, for withstanding all this pain and takeing his only chance to win. George expected to win this fight a lot easier and this might have been his biggest fault as he was not the kind of fighter who could easily adjust his gameplan. At this stage of his career he only had one gameplan anyways. Personally I believe that Foreman didn't even think of training for more than 6 rounds.

And yes, I've read as well that Ali was saying that he realized during the fight that George cut down the ring too effectivly and that he had no chance in running from him the whole fight. It was an incredibly hot night as well and Ali was already getting older. But right there he showed one of his biggest advantages: he adjusted his gameplan.

What I found kinda funny over the years is that lots of people keep talking about how clever the rope-a-dope tactic was. I never thought it was clever to let one of the biggest punchers ever hit you, guard up or not. It was his only chance though. And I can't think of a lot of other fighters who were able to take the amount of punishment Ali took before his chance came. The thing to admire about Ali that night is not his ring-intelligence or his boxing qualities but his determination, heart and thoughness.

Foreman thought of retirement after that fight and had a layoff for about 1 1/2 years. During that period Ali fought Chuck Wepner, Lyle, Joe Bugner and Joe Frazier. His bout against Coopman took place less than half a month after Foremans comeback win against Lyle in which George didn't look like his old self.

I think that Foreman was in the mix again when he beat Frazier. Until his loss to Young there was a 9 month time period in which a rematch was possible. During that period Ali fought Norton in a rubber match. Norton was just as deserving of that fight as Foreman might have been. After that Foreman had his chance. He "only" had to get rid of the same Jimmy Young that Ali hold to a UD. He couldn't. It was not Ali's fault that Young was exactly the kind of boxer to beat Foreman that night.

When George lost to Young he lost his place among the top contenders and retired again.

To sum it up there were only 9 months in which a Ali-Foreman rematch could've happened and during this period Ali fought Norton of whom he knew that he had his number. Though I believe that Foreman would've beaten Ali convincingly in a second fight it was his fault that the fight never happened. He should've beaten Young.

Muhammad Ali is one of the best three HWs of all time. This is sth. you hardly can take away from him. He was a gifted athlete and had a heart at least the size of his mouth. People might give him a little bit too much credit these days but than again it is hard to give a fighter like Ali too much credit.

BAREKNUCKLES
08-04-2005, 12:00 AM
What I found kinda funny over the years is that lots of people keep talking about how clever the rope-a-dope tactic was. I never thought it was clever to let one of the biggest punchers ever hit you, guard up or not. It was his only chance though. And I can't think of a lot of other fighters who were able to take the amount of punishment Ali took before his chance came. The thing to admire about Ali that night is not his ring-intelligence or his boxing qualities but his determination, heart and thoughness.

Ali's "rope-a-dope" while effective might not have been the smart thing to do.

Muhammad Ali's number one greatest boxing attribute, bar none, was his ability to take a beating. I've watched all his fights, and you would swear the man was made of rubber. He made it look like he wasn't hurt, but throughout the years it hurt him.The accumulation of punishment he absorbed in the ring has made him what he is today.

For that reason, I have to respect his dedication to his craft.He paid a heavy price to be called the greatest.

Now, on to George Foreman. We have to give respect to George for learning from his mistakes. In his second career, he played to his own strengths.

George was so much bigger the second time around, that I don't know if it were possible to knock him off of his feet. He never got excited, and walked his man down with that big jab. He still had fairly quick hands and he never wasted any energy.

I believe I watched him fight Adelson Rodriguez? and that's the first time I had seen a man's eyes crossed after being whacked.The man hit hard. He also took alot of punishment for an old duffer. Holyfield drilled him som many times, I couldn't believe George was still standing and throwing back.

Big George had the big gun and when you are old and fat, that's what you need to win the title--- just ask Michael Moorer!

Tha Greatest
08-04-2005, 12:23 AM
Ali was willing to basically die to win...
which he did, and that's why he has parkinsons now

So technically he was willing to give up a healthy life so he can win...

the definition of a WARRIOR!

kapersky
08-04-2005, 03:14 AM
"dude" great post.

Ali was willing to basically die to win...
which he did, and that's why he has parkinsons now

So technically he was willing to give up a healthy life so he can win...

the definition of a WARRIOR!

yep it definetely looks like that. but was it worth it?, i doubt it if you ask me. btw i think his fights aginst frazier hurt him most all those deadly left hook from frazier cant be healty.

hellfire508
08-04-2005, 08:50 AM
Ali was willing to basically die to win...
which he did, and that's why he has parkinsons now

So technically he was willing to give up a healthy life so he can win...

the definition of a WARRIOR!


Absolutely. Anyone who doesnt respect Ali needs to think about that. I see alot of Ali haters these days, because they cant handle the FACT that he would own their favourite fighters. Respect the man for the marvel he was.

chopper77
08-04-2005, 12:03 PM
I disagree. I think Foreman fought everyone that way. He was and is the MOST over rated heavyweight of all time. He always fought with those big freakin haymakers. Sure he hit hard, but as far as the sweet science he was more like kindergarten coloring. The way he fought was disgusting. I think a surgeon like a Marvin Hagler could have given him fits. Remember Jimmy Young? A small very mobile guy who made big George look like the inept fool he really was.

BoxingPromoter
08-04-2005, 01:09 PM
IMO, alot of boxing fans don't give credit to Ali for dominating and winning this fight. Rather,alot of fans say that Foreman lost the fight because he abandoned his usual style. I've watched this fight many times and believe that Ali dominated this fight start to finish. Basically Foreman couldn't hit Ali with any clean punches; but Ali was just the opposite, peppering Foreman's face with crisp, fast, and powerful combinations. Foreman was not only exhausted from punching himself out, but also from the accumulation of Ali's punches.

Muchmoore
08-05-2005, 02:36 PM
Foreman fought stupid that fight, he didnt fight like a bum :)

He should have fought at a more measured pace

Easy-E
08-06-2005, 01:01 AM
IMO, alot of boxing fans don't give credit to Ali for dominating and winning this fight. Rather,alot of fans say that Foreman lost the fight because he abandoned his usual style. I've watched this fight many times and believe that Ali dominated this fight start to finish. Basically Foreman couldn't hit Ali with any clean punches; but Ali was just the opposite, peppering Foreman's face with crisp, fast, and powerful combinations. Foreman was not only exhausted from punching himself out, but also from the accumulation of Ali's punches.

finally somoene who saw what i saw...ali was winning this fight, then he knocked foreman out

Easy-E
08-06-2005, 01:08 AM
An unusual confluence of events made Ali's win possible. Foreman getting cut in training and not being allowed to leave the country. Very loose ropes. The possibility of Foreman having been drugged before the fight. Ali's trainer, Angelo Dundee believes that he was. And really was George's game plan all that bad? Nobody could have expected a fighter to last 8 rds with Foreman by just standing there and taking punishment. There was a fair amount of luck involved that Ali avoided taking a shot that he couldn't take. That Ali refused to give Foreman a rematch speaks volumes of what Ali thought of his chances.

i would like to see dundee's quote where he says that foreman may have been drugged before the fight...it wasnt luck at all that ali avoided foreman's big punches, that was his style.
I love how people talk about how ali wouldnt give foreman a rematch...back that up, i want to see proof that ali wouldnt grant foreman a rematch, something issued by ali's camp perhaps?
back up what you say please

JohnThomas1
08-06-2005, 04:05 AM
Ali fought a brilliant technical fight and plain and simple outclassed George. His incredible determination and heart didn't go astray. It took a game man to even get in the ring with Foreman after his blowouts of Norton and Frazier. Ali turned up to win, and absolutely nothing was going to stop him.

tommyhearns804
08-06-2005, 08:12 AM
Then funny thing about this fight is when people will say this fight showed how tough Ali was and how he could take a beating.Ali was never hit with a clean punch the whole fight yet he claimed he was out on his feet many times.If glancing punches where hurting him this bad then imagine what a solid punch to the chin would of done.Even the body punches Foreman were throwing werent really that great.They were all arm punches.Just watch the way Foreman threw body punches when he faced Norton.After about 2 body punches Ken Norton began droping his arms down to protect his body.Norton probably couldnt take a punch to the body like Ali could but Foreman was still digging to his body not throwing wild arms shots.
The other funny thing is Foreman can never live this down.Other fighters lost to worse opponents but you make excuses for them.Douglas completely destroyed Tyson but you have a excuse for that.Robinson was beat easily by Turpin in their first fight and Robinson was losing their second fight until he got lucky and knocked Turpin out.Louis got knocked out by Schmeling but his career isnt based on this one lost.Lewis was knocked out 2 times by one punch to average fighters but most of you still think he was one of the best heavyweights ever.But for some reason because of Foreman losing one fight to Ali he will always be known as some slow wild swinging heavyweight who would lose to anybody who boxed him when reality he was never slow.Infact most of his punches besides his hook were pretty damn fast. and nobody ever outboxed Foreman in his prime.But what can i do.I give you fact and base what i say on logic but you will always believe what you want to believe or what the media wants you to believe because it helps to make Ali seem like something he never was.

Southpaw16
08-06-2005, 01:21 PM
I would like to adress the allegations of Foreman being drugged. When fighting in that level of heat, if not properly hydrated and very fatigued, it is easy to get a light-headed feeling that would be akin to being drugged.
Part of being a great fighter is great preparation. If Foreman and his camp did not ensure that he was properly hydrated going into the fight, did not get him properly acclimatised, or anything else of that nature, and Ali and his camp took that initiative, then that means Foreman was that much less of a great fighter than Ali.

ricecrispi
08-08-2005, 02:08 PM
Very true southpaw but the facts are wrong.

Foreman could be dehydrated but not because he wasn't aclimated to the environment like he flew over there and got jet lag or the Afircan air was weird. These are championship fights, trainers give fighters at least 2 weeks to get used to the enviroment. They are not that dum to fly there guys out 5 days before a fight now. If they do, shame on them.


Get the fact straight
1) Both men trained the whole summer in Africa. Foreman did nothing but train because think about it, there is nothing to do in Zaire but look at the giraffes.
2) Foreman got hurt and fight got delayed a month so Foreman could rest.
3) Ali was FOREMAN'S DREAM FIGHT. He knew beating ALI would make him #1. People make it sound like Foreman wasn't motivated.......
4) Foreman is not overrated or unskilled. Foreman is very skilled. Even Ali qouted saying in the fight he couldn't outbox Foreman, he was to strong. Ali took the fight and made it his out of sheer desire and will power.

EXIGE
08-08-2005, 03:48 PM
I honestly think that in the first time in foreman's career, he was discouraged and intimidated.. because he sure didn't fight Frazier that way.. :)
Haha 6 kd's in 2 rounds. Now he wasnt shy to impress was he.

tommyhearns804
08-13-2005, 01:04 PM
RiceCrispi are you George Foreman lol?Number one Foreman said he thought nothing of Ali and he didnt expect Ali to go more than a few rounds with him.He said this over and over.When reporters ask how long it would take to know Ali out Foreman just stated whenever he landed a decent punch.And who told you Foreman spent his time training?The people around Foreman and Foreman said he didnt train much.He only sparred and punched the heavybag.He rarely rarely did road workd because when ever he went out and tried the people would be there doing that "Ali bombaye crap.So Foreman spent most of his time in his hotel room.I think Foreman would know more about this than you think you do.
Ali knew beating Foreman would be big for him.Ali said in his book "The life and times of Ali" or whatever it is called that he knew if some way he could beat Foreman then people would finally have to admit he was the greatest.This fight ment everything to Ali and nothing to Foreman.Based on Ali he got himself in the best shape of his career.He got himself in shape to stick in move for 15 rounds.While Foreman never thought the fight would go more than 3 rounds and Foreman never trained hard for any fight period because Dick Saddler and Archie Moore didnt make him they just kept building his head up with how know man could survive his power.
When the Ali Foreman fight began Ali tried to outbox Foreman and realized Foreman was to fast to try to out box (Again this is Ali's words read the book)And Ali realized he tried to outbox Foreman he would get tired and be knocked out.Ali also said he realize that Foreman punched to hard to try to do anything while he had his strength.Ali claimed Foreman had him out on his feet 5 plus times in the fight.So Ali decided his only chance was to hope that Foreman would punch himself out and he could outwork him as the fight went on.As i said Ali said all of this.And since he was in there fighting Foreman i think he would know more about what was going on that some guy who just watched it.
Lol and Rice how would beating Ali make Foreman number one at that time?Foreman was the undefeated champion of the world.Nobody thought Ali had a chance.Foreman had nothing to prove by beating Ali at that time and Ali had everything to gain by beating Foreman.
I am not going bust your balls Rice because just by you saying Foreman was skilled shows you know what you are talking about in general so i salute you.I don't want to call childish names and go back in foward but never say Foreman trained hard for any fight in his prime because based on the people around him Foreman did not train or listen to anything his trainers told him.Don't say Foreman was up for any fight because he was not.Foreman was a ****y guy who thought nobody could beat him.He was never up for anybody.That is the main reason he fougth Ali as stupid as he did because he had no respect for Ali and thought Ali would be a cake walk.
And one more thing again about the Jimmy Young fight.Gil Clancy said he told Foreman to come to Puerto Rico 2 weeks before the fight so he could get used to the heat and Foreman showed up a day or so before the fight.Foreman listed to nothing Clancy was saying the whole fight.Clancy said this.You could hear Clancy screaming out to Foreman and Foreman just kept following Young around the ring doing nothing.
I dont know if this is true but Foreman said the main reason he didnt jump on Young and go in for the knock out was because Don King told him to drag out the fight a little because most of Foremans fights ended really quick.So don't say stamina was the reason Foreman fought Young the way he did.Foreman probably could care less about that.He knew out of his firt 46 fights he was only tires in one of them.
Besides this probably Foreman lost interest in boxing aroud the time he fought Young.If you know boxing then i am sure you know Foreman was on Ali trying to get a rematch.But Ali wouldnt give him one.And if you know boxing you snow that Foreman tried to get Holmes in to fight.Foreman and his people figured if they couldnt get Ali then they would get the next best thing to prepare Foreman if Ali did give him another chance to prove himself.Holmes people declined so Foreman instead fought Young.How many of you think Foreman could beat up for a guy who already lost 4 or 5 times like Young did at that point in time?Foreman lost interest in boxing since he couldnt get the fight he wanted.Young did nothing special in the Foreman fight.He didnt out box Foreman or anything.Foreman just went through the motions got dead tired and lost.So you can't use the well since Young beat Foreman then it must mean any guy who can box could beat Foreman.It is like saying just because you are big and tall you can beat Tyson just because McBride did.Tyson has no interest to box anymore and Foreman didnt when he fought Young.
But anyway everybody knows Foreman fought a dumb fight against Ali but it was just one fight.I dont see why would base Foreman whole career on one fight.Ali knew he was lucky to get a win against Foreman so he never gave him a rematch.When Norton beat Ali the first time what did he do?Give Ali a rematch he didnt make Ali fight 5 plus more fights just to get a chance to make up for the lost.Ali was willing to give every other fighter who wanted a rematch a rematch so why not Foreman?That has to mean something doesn't it?

ricecrispi
08-13-2005, 03:23 PM
Tommy Hearns
I going to ask you the same question, Are you George Foreman?
No. My point being made.

If you know so much about Foreman, tell me what motivated Foreman to start boxing? If you get it right I'll treat you with some respect. If you know what Foreman was doing at the time you get mad props.

Besides we are talking about Ali and Foreman and you go off talking about Jimmy Young and Foreman? I don't care about Tyson or Mcbride. The topic is Ali and Foreman. Focus man, and take the bottle of gin from your mouth and put it back in the cabinet.

No one gave Ali a chance to win, even his corner was scared for his health.

Plus Foreman liked to stay in his room but that was after training in the ring. It was still atleast 2 hrs of training everday till he got hurt. I never heard anyone getting hurt doing nothing. I wouldn't like people chanting "Ali kill him" in any language or forced to stay in a dump of a country for a whole summer.

Plus, I wasn't being an ass when I said Foreman was a boxer with skill. Foreman was very skilled and I watched tons of his footage studying different fighting styles.

tommyhearns804
08-13-2005, 05:59 PM
Lol rice did i ask you if you cared about Tyson?I was responding to other post . i know why Foreman started boxing because he said so.He boxed because he was tired of being poor and wanted to change his life.He joined the job corps and while there Doc Broadus i think his name his seen him giving some other guy there a beating and told him he should learn to use his anger in boxing.So he did.Lol and who told you Foreman trained 2 hours a day in Zaire?Nobody that is who.Again i think Foreman and the people around him know what he did.And they said Foreman never ever ever listened to what he was told and her rarely trained he just sparred a few rounds and punched the heavybag.And who told you Foreman liked to stay in his room?He stayed there because of the constant chants of ali bombaye and he just got tires of the people and waned to go home.Again Foreman would know more about this than you and he said this in his book.
And the point again is Foreman didnt think anything of Ali.Foreman wasnt motivated to fight Ali because Foreman said he wasnt and why would he be when nobody thought Ali could win?
And who said you were being a wise azz about Foreman being skilled?I know you werent and that is why i said i dont want to argue with you or call stupid names because at least you know Foreman was very skilled so how about we just drop this.
By the way here is a little more info on Foreman.Foreman never wanted to be a boxer to began with he wanted to be a football player but he didnt go to school because he was poor and shamed to be poor so he dropped out.Then for a brief time Foreman wanted to be like the guys who hung around 5th ward .he wanted to be a killer like they were.Foreman never wanted to be like Liston like many people believe.He may have respected him but he never wanted to be like him.Did you know Foreman actually wanted to be a boxer like Ali?Earlier on in his career Foreman said he wanted to out and bounce on his toes and do the things like Ali did but Moore and Saddler would just tell him to get it over with as quick as possible?
So will you give me some respect now Rice or what ?Or do you want me to tell you some more about the man before you give me my props.

ricecrispi
08-14-2005, 12:41 AM
I'll give it to you even do i don't agree with you sometimes and you have crazy rants TommyHearns. I really wonder how many GoeorgeForemans grills you own now?

Foreman first fight he saw was Ali and Liston. When he saw Ali win the fight against Liston he want to be a boxer and be a champ like Ali. He liked Liston with his intimidating figure, Foreman saw a little of himslef in Liston. But seeing Ali win he wanted to be Ali. He started boxing soon after that so he could make something of himself other than beating bums like he was since he was 13 as an orphan on the streets.
18 he got into boxing and he wanted to be like Ali but he always had freakish punch power and not only learned how to box but had his natural power with it. He earned a spot on the olympic boxing team with less than 20 amateur fights and won a gold medal. etc etc....

Foreman did spar and workout for Ali because they had to split time with Ali in the only boxing gym in Zaire, if you can call it a gym. Foreman was champ and always started first and Ali after him. Foreman did spar, jump roped, and worked on the speed bag, and heavy bag. I'm not saying he worked enough to beat Ali, but people are saying he didn't work out all. I know he didn't run because he didn't like how poeple in Zaire taunting him and he couped up in his room as Ali kissed up to the people of Zaire. Still he worked out in the gym.

If he treated Ali with more respect he would've won but he didn't and loss. Never underestimate your oppponent is one of the most important rules in boxing and Foreman forgot it and loss.

McDuffie
09-10-2005, 12:06 AM
Ali did virtually nothing....& Foreman looked like a complete idiot.

Ali was on the offensive almost the entire fight.

Dempsey 1919
10-26-2005, 05:38 PM
i agree. ali won every round, untill the knock out.

Derranged
10-26-2005, 05:49 PM
Some might call me crazy but I saw some Foreman fights from the 70's and I have to say I dont think he was all that talented,he was just an animal. Most of the time he would stand there and just take wild swings. He hit so hard and was so strong that it was just too overwhelming for most. Ali was too talented not to mention had a of a hard chin.

Dempsey 1919
10-26-2005, 05:52 PM
foreman did have talent, but that night was reserved for THEE GREATEST!!!

legend_killer
10-26-2005, 10:17 PM
Foreman lost because he faced the one man who was not intimidated by his power. Ali had already proved he could hold his own against the hard hitters when he knocked out Sonny Liston. Foreman's fighting style was tailor made for Ali - powerful, clumsy and without technique. Joe Frazier had given Ali problems because he had an iron jaw and determination. Foreman wanted the glory, but Ali wanted immortality. To put it simply, Ali wanted it more and sucked Ole George right in with the rope-a-dope.

Dempsey 1919
10-26-2005, 10:33 PM
Foreman lost because he faced the one man who was not intimidated by his power. Ali had already proved he could hold his own against the hard hitters when he knocked out Sonny Liston. Foreman's fighting style was tailor made for Ali - powerful, clumsy and without technique. Joe Frazier had given Ali problems because he had an iron jaw and determination. Foreman wanted the glory, but Ali wanted immortality. To put it simply, Ali wanted it more and sucked Ole George right in with the rope-a-dope.
i could'nt have said it better myself. PEACE!

yumagah
12-27-2007, 12:13 AM
Ali certainly did duck Foreman in 1976 and 1977. A Foreman-Ali rematch would have been like the Louis-Schmeling rematch. If the ropes were tight, Ali would not be able to lean back and avoid Foreman's power. After 2 or 3 rounds Ali would be hurt and just covering up, leading to stoppage. Ali and his management knew this, and so never came close to giving George a rematch. Once Foreman figured out he would never get a rematch, he lost interest in boxing. This led to his sluggish performance against Jimmy Young in 1977.

res
12-29-2007, 06:20 AM
Foreman was a bum who could punch four times harder than any other bum.