View Full Version : Best out of the 3?


.:PRINCE:.
07-22-2010, 07:50 PM
Many people claim the 'golden age' peaked in the 70s when boxing had some of its greatest heavyweights of all time in their peak. This was an era dominated mainly by the likes of Muhammad Ali, Joe Fraizer and George Foreman.

My question, is, who was better out of the 3 (taking their whole career into consideration)?

Personally I think they all have their own advantages and disadvantages that need to be considered.

Ali was a great fighter, no doubt, and had an in ring presence that just can't be matched. I just think he was overrated and many of his victorious fights can be debated. Then again he did lose 3 years, arguably what was to be his peak, to the sport for personal beliefs.

Foreman was a hard hitter, that only a few could put a stop to. And his longevity in the sport (at the top) is just overwhelming, that itself brings him up there with the top.

Fraizer was also a skilled fighter. I don't like to say he really lost to Ali, because although the records have it written otherwise, I could easily have him the winner of all 3 encounters. Also, having a bad left eye for the majority of his career would be a factor in favour.

I'll give my verdict after others have replied.

So who is the better out of these 3 all time greats?

Discuss.

Earl Hickey
07-22-2010, 07:53 PM
I think overall you have to go with Ali, as you say he lost a few years of his prime, but the handspeed, footspeed, chin and power were all great, he was quite a complete fighter, he did have some defensive flaws, but at his best he was brilliant.

the next two are difficult to pick between, but I will pick Joe Frazier as the second best of the two, followed closely by Foreman,

prinzemanspopa
07-23-2010, 05:11 AM
I don't like to say he really lost to Ali.




The truth can be a bitter pill to swallow for some people.Ole Smokey Joe still hasn't managed to swallow it in thirty five years.

Usually,when you lose in as decisive manner as frazier was beaten in their final two meetings,all arguments are thrown out the window.


The fact that your argument for frazier revolves entirely on Ali pretty much answers your own question and scratches frazier's name off the list.


You won't find one credible ATG list that has foreman or frazier anywhere near Ali.The only other heavyweight that achieved that level of greatness was Joe Louis.



You simply can't compare the very best of his era,whom many regard as the greatest heavyweight of all time,to number two and number three.They're both in that position for a reason.




In regards to ole Smoke's left eye,I trust that you have the medical records to back up this claim?

Stone Roses!
07-23-2010, 05:44 AM
I don't like to say he really lost to Ali, because although the records have it written otherwise, I could easily have him the winner of all 3 encounters.

What? You could easily have Frazier the winner of the last 2 fights?

You are delusional. Ali defeated Frazier decisively in the second fight. Frazier's petty excuse for losing that fight was Ali's "excessive clinching". LMAO. Let's not forget Frazier leaned on Ali's body frequently throughout the fight.

Ali beat Frazier to a pulp in the final rounds in Manilla. Only a fool would see it otherwise. Frazier came out of that fight looking like the Elehant Man.

Also, how can you possibly argue "Frazier could have easily been the victor in the 3rd fight"? As I recall Eddie Futch pulled the plug on Smoking Joe.

Let me take a guess? You saw that HBO Documentary and believe Ali was ready to quit? GTFO. Go listen to the OTR interview with Dundee. Dundee knew Ali better than anyone in the ring. Ali would never quit on anything.If you recall, Ali was also going to quit during the first Liston fight due to the pain in his eyes, you know what? He didn't. You joker.

Ali was the best of his era. Period. He had a better resume and was the superior boxer to both Frazier and Foreman.

Ali's Most Notable Wins: Joe Frazier (x2), George Foreman, Sonny Liston (x2), Floyd Patterson (x2), Ken Norton (x2), Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers, Jerry Quarry (x2), Mac Foster, Oscar Bonavena, Doug Jones.

3 time Heavyweight Champ.

Not even ****ing close.

sonnyboyx2
07-23-2010, 05:59 AM
The truth can be a bitter pill to swallow for some people.Ole Smokey Joe still hasn't managed to swallow it in thirty five years.

Usually,when you lose in as decisive manner as frazier was beaten in their final two meetings,all arguments are thrown out the window.


The fact that your argument for frazier revolves entirely on Ali pretty much answers your own question and scratches frazier's name off the list.


You won't find one credible ATG list that has foreman or frazier anywhere near Ali.The only other heavyweight that achieved that level of greatness was Joe Louis.



You simply can't compare the very best of his era,whom many regard as the greatest heavyweight of all time,to number two and number three.They're both in that position for a reason.




In regards to ole Smoke's left eye,I trust that you have the medical records to back up this claim?

Hate filled garbage..... Frazier as Prince said, Could easily have been the winner in all 3 fights with Muhammad Ali, he won the greatest fight in boxing history which was "Fight of the Century" he was not allowed to fight in their return fight due to Ali`s illegal tactics of hold the back of the head`.. Frazier would then `finish-off` Ali by virtually beating him to death in the "Thrilla in Manilla".. Frazier was in his prime from 67-71 when he beat the very best in the world, Bonavena was as tough, awkward & rugged as any contender in history yet Frazier mastered him twice.. Frazier took part in 4 Ring Magazine Fights of the Year and was voted Fighter of the Year on two occasions... He beat Ellis (twice) Quarry (twice), Chuvalo, Machen, Mathis, Muhammad Ali, Foster, Bugner & Stander as well as Bonavena twice....Frazier proved that he had the will to win and proved incredible toughness by climbing off the floor 6 times against the sports hardest puncher in George Foreman, with Foreman being unable to KO a grossly out of shape Frazier.. as far as Fraziers punch resistance goes compaired to other champions he is way above the like of Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes, Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Floyd Patterson, George Foreman, Mike Tyson, Sonny Liston & Wlad Klitschko

in terms of Greatness Frazier comes a close second to Muhammad Ali with Foreman in 3rd place to claim otherwise is deluding oneself

Stone Roses!
07-23-2010, 06:14 AM
Hate filled garbage..... Frazier as Prince said, Could easily have been the winner in all 3 fights with Muhammad Ali, he won the greatest fight in boxing history which was "Fight of the Century" he was not allowed to fight in their return fight due to Ali`s illegal tactics of hold the back of the head`.. Frazier would then `finish-off` Ali by virtually beating him to death in the "Thrilla in Manilla"..

Frazier was in his prime from 67-71 when he beat the very best in the world, Bonavena was as tough, awkward & rugged as any contender in history yet Frazier mastered him twice.. Frazier took part in 4 Ring Magazine Fights of the Year and was voted Fighter of the Year on two occasions... He beat Ellis (twice) Quarry (twice), Chuvalo, Machen, Mathis, Muhammad Ali, Foster, Bugner & Stander as well as Bonavena twice....Frazier proved that he had the will to win and proved incredible toughness by climbing off the floor 6 times against the sports hardest puncher in George Foreman, with Foreman being unable to KO a grossly out of shape Frazier.. as far as Fraziers punch resistance goes compaired to other champions he is way above the like of Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes, Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Floyd Patterson, George Foreman, Mike Tyson, Sonny Liston & Wlad Klitschko

in terms of Greatness Frazier comes a close second to Muhammad Ali with Foreman in 3rd place to claim otherwise is deluding oneself

Your post is full of ****.

Frazier could not have "easily" been the winner in all 3 fights. He retired on his stool in the the 3rd bout after taking severe punishment in the late rounds. Ali practically "finished-off" Frazier with that humiliating beating.

Frazier won "The Fight of The Century" to a version of Ali suffering from ring rust and faded reflexes. Once Ali was able to adapt to a new style of fighting Frazier was no match. Ali's clinching in the 2nd fight was justified by Frazier's excessive "leaning" and "butting". The ref saw no wrong with Ali's tactics and justifiably so. You are a total idiot.

The rest of your post is garbage as Ali had more grit, determination, heart, better chin, superior boxing ability, the greater resume and accomplishments than Smoking Joe.

Frazier comes in a distant 3rd behind Ali and Foreman.

you joker.

Vadrigar.
07-23-2010, 06:19 AM
Your post is full of ****.

Frazier could not have "easily" been the winner in all 3 fights. He retired on his stool in the the 3rd bout after taking severe punishment in the late rounds. Ali practically "finished-off" Frazier with that humiliating beating.

Frazier won "The Fight of The Century" to a version of Ali suffering from ring rust and faded reflexes. Once Ali was able to adapt to a new style of fighting Frazier was no match. Ali's clinching in the 2nd fight was justified by Frazier's excessive "leaning" and "butting". The ref saw no wrong with Ali's tactics and justifiably so. You are a total idiot.

The rest of your post is garbage as Ali had more grit, determination, heart, better chin, superior boxing ability, the greater resume and accomplishments than Smoking Joe.

Frazier comes in a distant 3rd behind Ali and Foreman.

you joker.

Exactly. If you observe carefully you can see ALi blocking Fraizers left hook, Cosell pointed it out in the commentary.

prinzemanspopa
07-23-2010, 06:20 AM
Frazier proved




What many had suspected all along when he was dropped six times in just two rounds against the only puncher he ever had the guts to step into the ring with.


The ultimate exposure of a glass jawed fraud.


frazier was not allowed to fight his fight due to the fact that he was dealing with an elite heavyweight who wasn't as rusty as an old warehouse bucket.


Three years of ducking a career high purse and his one and only claim to fame and all it got him was two decisive losses and a lost title.



Ali was finished after Zaire,two awful outings against Lyle and Wepner proved this.And yet,a still capable frazier was still beaten handedly and was behind on all three scorecards at the time that he quit,in order to save face,on his stool.





but what's important here is that atleast you got your dig in at Lennox Lewis,a man who actually had a pair of balls,unlike Smokin' Joke frazier.

$BloodyNate$
07-23-2010, 06:35 AM
Typical Frazier hate from the losers that aren't even worthy enough to hold his jock strap. Spoken from true keyboard warriors.

Ali was obviously the best just by resume alone not to mention he beat them both. I have Foreman second just because he beat Frazier and pretty much beat the **** out of Muhammad Ali. Very risky lucky strategy by Ali. No skill involved Ali just had one hell of a chin. But the 3 Frazier-Ali fights were all won by the skin of their teeth. All three were close competitive wars. That's why they are so famous. Not because Ali clowned him twice. But because Frazier gave Ali the fight of his life 3 times. Face it. Frazier made Muhammad Ali the greatest.

The Frazier hate is just ridiculous. I don't ****in understand why these trolls just can't enjoy the 3 Frazier-Ali fights as a true boxing fan rather then bust in their pants with constant unproven bull**** Frazier hate. If your going to troll & bash a truly all time great legend of the great sport of boxing, you obviously have no business in the history section. Your guys bull**** is really ruining this forum.

Toney616
07-23-2010, 07:08 AM
Fraizer was also a skilled fighter. I don't like to say he really lost to Ali, because although the records have it written otherwise, I could easily have him the winner of all 3 encounters. Also, having a bad left eye for the majority of his career would be a factor in favour..
I agree with this. Ali was allowed to hold Frazier way too much in the second fight, Futch pleaded with the ref to stop it, but the ref refused to clamp down on Ali "tactics"

I'll give my verdict after others have replied.

So who is the better out of these 3 all time greats?

Discuss.
Resume wise:
Ali
Foreman
Frazier

sonnyboyx2
07-23-2010, 10:21 AM
Typical Frazier hate from the losers that aren't even worthy enough to hold his jock strap. Spoken from true keyboard warriors.

Ali was obviously the best just by resume alone not to mention he beat them both. I have Foreman second just because he beat Frazier and pretty much beat the **** out of Muhammad Ali. Very risky lucky strategy by Ali. No skill involved Ali just had one hell of a chin. But the 3 Frazier-Ali fights were all won by the skin of their teeth. All three were close competitive wars. That's why they are so famous. Not because Ali clowned him twice. But because Frazier gave Ali the fight of his life 3 times. Face it. Frazier made Muhammad Ali the greatest.

The Frazier hate is just ridiculous. I don't ****in understand why these trolls just can't enjoy the 3 Frazier-Ali fights as a true boxing fan rather then bust in their pants with constant unproven bull**** Frazier hate. If your going to troll & bash a truly all time great legend of the great sport of boxing, you obviously have no business in the history section. Your guys bull**** is really ruining this forum.

i agree 100%... i am ready to throw in the towel simply because these ****suckers are at it daily, trashing legendary fighters like Frazier, Dempsey & Joe Louis yet if these great fighters was as bad as these clowns try to imply then why are they held in the highest regard by boxing writers, historians and fans throughout the world... i think it is time we had a moderator in the history section who would start to ban these clowns and get the forum back to how it was last year when serious debate could be had on a daily basis instead of hate & lies spewed out by a small minority.

SBleeder
07-23-2010, 10:37 AM
Taking their whole careers into account?
1. Ali
2. Foreman
3. Frazier

Foreman has to outrank Frazier simply because he regained the Title two decades after losing it.

Ali holds wins over Frazier, Liston, Patterson, Moore, Norton, Foreman, Young, Lyle, Foster, Bugner, Quarry, Ellis... no other heavyweight has beaten as many good/great fighters.

Frazier hit his peak with the Fight of the Century win. After that his wins against good fighters were generally when those guys were on the way down. He's an ATG for sure, but the resume doesn't compare with Ali, or Foreman.

I have Foreman second just because he beat Frazier and pretty much beat the **** out of Muhammad Ali. Very risky lucky strategy by Ali. No skill involved Ali just had one hell of a chin.
You didn't actually ever watch that fight, because Ali was out-landing Foreman throughout it. You simply read about the rope-a-dope and assumed that's all he did.


But the 3 Frazier-Ali fights were all won by the skin of their teeth. All three were close competitive wars. That's why they are so famous. Not because Ali clowned him twice. But because Frazier gave Ali the fight of his life 3 times. Face it. Frazier made Muhammad Ali the greatest.


You didn't actually watch those fights either. Frazier won decisively in the first fight; Ali clearly won the next two.

$BloodyNate$
07-23-2010, 12:17 PM
You didn't actually ever watch that fight, because Ali was out-landing Foreman throughout it. You simply read about the rope-a-dope and assumed that's all he did.



You didn't actually watch those fights either. Frazier won decisively in the first fight; Ali clearly won the next two.

hahaha how you going to tell me I didn't watch a fight? Based on what? On that same logic I can assume your just a bias Ali fan.

The last 2 fights weren't the prettiest fights and most ugly fights are pretty close like this one. Look at Hopkins & Ruiz for example. Whenever they fight dirty their fights are very close. But in some peoples eyes Hopkins CLEARLY beat Calzaghe, and CLEARLY beat Wright. But I know of people who actually had Winky at least coming home with a draw. And you KNOW their are people that think Calzaghe CLEARLY won that fight. Its subjective to opinion. Their was a lot of smothering which makes fights harder to judge. So your saying theirs no idea that somebody could come up with the conclusion that the last 2 fights were close? I didn't say he could have easily won them like they were fights that could have gone either way. Ali won those fights, I just said ME PERSONALLY think they were close.

And as for the Foreman fight. once again, how are you going to tell me I didn't watch a fight? I watched the fight on ESPN before I even heard Ali "used the rope-a-dope" years ago before I even started following boxing hardcore. And from what I remember Foreman threw at will whether or not how much he landed or not with Ali slippin in punches here or there but for the most part Foreman was out working him.

Please don't be another troll like Stones & Prinze who base **** on absolutely nothing at all with wild assumptions.

SBleeder
07-23-2010, 06:06 PM
And as for the Foreman fight. once again, how are you going to tell me I didn't watch a fight? I watched the fight on ESPN before I even heard Ali "used the rope-a-dope" years ago before I even started following boxing hardcore. And from what I remember Foreman threw at will whether or not how much he landed or not with Ali slippin in punches here or there but for the most part Foreman was out working him.

Please don't be another troll like Stones & Prinze who base **** on absolutely nothing at all with wild assumptions.

You said that "Foreman pretty much beat the s___ out of him". Nobody who actually watched that fight believes that.