View Full Version : My Top Ten Greatest Heavyweight Champs Of All Time!


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Mr. Violence
12-08-2004, 08:02 PM
Everyone has their list of top ten heavyweights of all time here is mine. feel free to share yours also.


1)Muhammad Ali- It was amazing that a man of his physical size can move with such swiftness and agility. Was undefeated (30-0)when the title was wrongfully stripped from him in '67. Forced to stay out of boxing for three years, he went through ups and downs and 2 defeats to finally get another title shot at the age of 32 in 1974 and shocked the whole world by defeating the invincinble Big George Foreman. Two amazing title reigns and Ali was also the first man to win the Championship 3 times.

2)Joe Louis- The Brown Bomber was a deadly technician in the ring. During his title reign he faced anyone and anything that was put in front of him. Amazing number of title defenses(25!) and length of title reign.

3)George Foreman- In his early career Big George Foreman was a fighter that had the heavyweight division in fear, with an aura of invinciblity comparable to Tysons and Listons big George would have adversaries shaking in thier boots at the mention of his name. That is until he met Ali in '74. Big George was 42-0 when he lost to Ali. After the loss he went into a downward spiral that caused him to retire from boxing and becoming a preacher, didnt box for ten years. In 1988 Foreman came back with a drive to regain the heavyweight title again. And going through ups and downs he finally won back the title at the age of 45 in 1994 by KO against Michael Moorer. Amazingly regaining the title 20 years after losing it to Ali. Foreman is in the record books for the oldest man ever to win the championship at 45 years old, and also for having the 2nd highest knockout percentage in heavyweight history.

4. Rocky Marciano - The Rock was known for his amazing stamina in the ring like the energizer bunny you can keep beating him down but he just kept on coming. Incredible stamina, iron chin, unbeatable will to win, ability to knock you out with both hands, deadly body shots. What more can you ask for in a fighter. His 49-0 record still stands to this day.

5. Larry Holmes- The Easton Assassin was known for his lightning jab that was strong enough to knock you down. Holmes never got respect because unlike Ali he lacked an arch nemesis liek Ali had with Frazier, and he also ruled during a bleak period in heavyweight history. Spent 8 years as heavywieght Champ and went 48-0 before losing to Spinks almost tying Marciano's 49-0 record.

6. Joe Frazier- one word to describe him- relentless . Like Marciano you can throw everything at this guy and he'd still keep on coming. Owner of one of the deadliest left hooks in heavyweight history. The first man to beat Ali. His 3 dramatic fights with Ali made Smokin Joe Frazier a legend.

7. Lennox Lewis- During his title reign the British lion fought and defeated all the top heavyweights of his day including Holyfield and Tyson. Look at the list of all the fighters The British Lion has defeated and you'll see his place in history cannot be denied. Possessed one of the deadliest right hands in heavyweight history.

8.Evander Holyfield - Evander The Real Deal Holyfield is a man with incredible heart. Possesses one of the greatest chins of all time , this man didnt know the meaning of the word -quit. Proved the critics wrong time after time. Saying he wasnt big enough to be a Heavyweight he went on to win the title a record 4 times. His most dramtic win was when he defeated Iron Mike Tyson for the Title in 1996 when everyone wrote Holyfield off as a hasbeen.

9. Mike Tyson- Iron Mike Tyson's place in history is bittersweet to me because I feel had he stayed with trainer Kevin Rooney, Mike Tyson had the POTENTIAL to become the greatest Heavyweight Champ of all time. Everyone knows Tysons story. Tyson had incredible speed, incredible KO power, great finisher, a violent blood lust to destroy his opponent. Many of Tysons fight would not go past the 2nd round. During Tyson's 3 year reign of terror opponents feared Tyson so much that they would forget to fight back. With his black shoes no socks, black trunks, fade haircut and gym towel draped on his shoulders he had an aura of invincibility that the ring had never seen before or since. In 1988 this man was frightening, his 90 second annihilation of Michael Spinks and 4 round destruction of Larry Holmes truly made him the "Baddest man on the planet".

10. Jack Dempsey- the Monnassa Mauler- was a devestating force to be reckoned with back in his day. Knocked out Jess willard in violent fashion knocking Willards teeth out literally to win the Heavyweight Title,,,,and Dempsey was outweighed by Willard by more than 50 lbs!!!. Dempsey style was the prototype to Tyson, Tyson even borrowed Dempseys style of wearing black shoes, black shorts, fade haircut from Dempsey. Going for the knock out Dempsey could knock you out with either hand. Pure assassin.

***special note - Jack Johnson is my #11. The reason I dont have him ranked higher is because he ruled in an old time era when heavyweights would fight middleweights and even welterweights. In fact Johnson himself fought many fights with many weight mismatches. Had Johnson ruled in a "Modernised Era" he would have placed higher on my list. With that being said I believe Johnson was extremely talented and can even defeat some of the men that rank higher in my list.***



***ReVISED 5/26/2007-Tyson has proven himself to be unworthy and is now replaced by James J. Braddock.

James J. Braddock is #9

Nick1998
12-08-2004, 08:23 PM
thats a nice top ten and I cant disagree with anything as far as the fighters but i might have dempsey ahead of lennox and holyfield

Mr. Violence
12-08-2004, 08:32 PM
thats a nice top ten and I cant disagree with anything as far as the fighters but i might have dempsey ahead of lennox and holyfield


That's interesting but i could see where you would think that.

Yogi
12-09-2004, 09:54 AM
My top-10 ranking of the greatest heavyweights, would look something like this;

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Johnson
4. Larry Holmes
5. Jack Dempsey
6. George Foreman
7. Rocky Marciano
8. James Jeffries
9. Joe Frazier
10. Mike Tyson

Honourable mentions to (in no order); Sonny Liston, Gene Tunney, Evander Holyfield, Ezzard Charles, Sam Langford, and Lennox Lewis.

dempseyfire
12-09-2004, 11:45 PM
1) Joe Louis
2) Jack Johnson
3) Ali
4) George Foreman
5) Larry Holmes
6) Sonny Liston
7) Joe Frazier
8) Jack Dempsey
9) Rocky Marciano
10) Jim Jefferies

dingus
12-10-2004, 12:55 AM
1. Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. George Foreman
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Joe Frazier
8. Sonny Liston
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Lennox Lewis

Raekwon
12-10-2004, 01:46 AM
1. Ali
2. Larry Holmes
3. Joe Louis
4. Rocky Marciano
5. Joe Frazier
6. George Foreman
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Jack Johnson
9. Lennox Lewos
10. Mike Tyson

enegue
12-10-2004, 06:30 AM
Though I have not seen the fights of some of the older figthers in your list, I can say that it's a pretty good lineup based on what I have read about them.

realtim
12-10-2004, 08:35 AM
My top ten

1. Ali
2. Joe louis
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Joe fraizer
5. Jack Johnson
6. George Foreman
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Rocky Marciano
9. Larry Holmes
10. Ken Norton

Honourable mentions
Sonny Liston, John L Sullivan, Peter Jackson, Jim Jeffries, Mike Tyson, maybe Lennox Lewis 15-20.

That was hard either one of them guys could be higher up in the list or lower down. It's all about opinions and that's mine.

TysonForeman
12-10-2004, 02:04 PM
I think it's cool that some of you guys have Jeffries on there, I'm glad he isn't completely forgotten. I still need to find video of him.

If Rocky Marciano could beat George Foreman, then he is the greatest heavyweight of all time, because that would mean his chin is unbreakable, and he could never be stopped. But unfortunately, I think he would get destroyed.

I also see that Jack Johnson is ranked in the Top 3 sometimes, I'd love to see some good quality video of him so I could see his technique.

n14061981
12-10-2004, 02:21 PM
3)George Foreman- In his early career Big George Foreman was a fighter that had the heavyweight division in fear, with an aura of invinciblity comparable to Tysons and Listons big George would have adversaries shaking in thier boots at the mention of his name. That is until he met Ali in '74. Big George was 42-0 when he lost to Ali. After the loss he went into a downward spiral that caused him to retire from boxing and becoming a preacher, didnt box for ten years. In 1988 Foreman came back with a drive to regain the heavyweight title again. And going through ups and downs he finally won back the title at the age of 45 in 1994 by KO against Michael Moorer. Amazingly regaining the title 20 years after losing it to Ali. Foreman is in the record books for the oldest man ever to win the championship at 45 years old, and also for having the 2nd highest knockout percentage in heavyweight history.

Who has the highest percentage?

TysonForeman
12-10-2004, 02:27 PM
Rocky Marciano has the highest. 43 KOs in 49 fight.
I was wondering if you calculate the percentage by dividing number of KO's by number of wins, or dividing by number of fights?
Like if a guy has a record of 10-6 (8), is his percentage 80%, or 50%?

Yogi
12-10-2004, 02:53 PM
Rocky Marciano has the highest. 43 KOs in 49 fight.
I was wondering if you calculate the percentage by dividing number of KO's by number of wins, or dividing by number of fights?
Like if a guy has a record of 10-6 (8), is his percentage 80%, or 50%?

Knockouts are always divided into the total number of fights, therefore that example you gave would've had a KO% of 50.

Great
12-10-2004, 03:05 PM
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Hard to say.
4. Hard to say.
...

sssse
12-11-2004, 04:31 PM
1. Ali
2. Lennox Lewis
3. Joe louis
4. George Foreman
5. Jack Johnson
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Larry Holmes
8. Gene Tunney
9. Jack Dempsey
10.John L Sullivan
+ Mike Tyson :)

Mr. Violence
12-11-2004, 10:51 PM
1. Ali
2. Lennox Lewis
3. Joe louis
4. George Foreman
5. Jack Johnson
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Larry Holmes
8. Gene Tunney
9. Jack Dempsey
10.John L Sullivan
+ Mike Tyson :)



just curious are you from the uk? :)

sssse
12-12-2004, 09:48 PM
just curious are you from the uk? :)
No, from the Ukraine :)

realtim
12-13-2004, 06:29 AM
Whats your top ten TysonForeman.
Your probably right about Marciano and Foreman it would end in the same way as Foreman Fraizer fights but I just really like Marciano and his never say die attitude.
If half the fighters had the desire that Marciano had boxing would be a better sport. Only a few have it today. Hopkins to name one.

gogan
12-14-2004, 11:04 AM
Very True!!!!!

MGG
12-25-2004, 02:28 PM
Louis
Holmes
Ali
Jack Johnson
Evander Holyfield
Foreman
Frazier
Gene Tunney
Lennox Lewis
Jack Dempsey

leff
12-28-2004, 11:46 AM
Everyone has their list of top ten heavyweights of all time here is mine. feel free to share yours also.


1)Muhammad Ali- It was amazing that a man of his physical size can move with such swiftness and agility. Was undefeated (30-0)when the title was wrongfully stripped from him in '67. Forced to stay out of boxing for three years, he went through ups and downs and 2 defeats to finally get another title shot at the age of 32 in 1974 and shocked the whole world by defeating the invincinble Big George Foreman. Two amazing title reigns and Ali was also the first man to win the Championship 3 times.

2)Joe Louis- The Brown Bomber was a deadly technician in the ring. During his title reign he faced anyone and anything that was put in front of him. Amazing number of title defenses(25!) and length of title reign.

3)George Foreman- In his early career Big George Foreman was a fighter that had the heavyweight division in fear, with an aura of invinciblity comparable to Tysons and Listons big George would have adversaries shaking in thier boots at the mention of his name. That is until he met Ali in '74. Big George was 42-0 when he lost to Ali. After the loss he went into a downward spiral that caused him to retire from boxing and becoming a preacher, didnt box for ten years. In 1988 Foreman came back with a drive to regain the heavyweight title again. And going through ups and downs he finally won back the title at the age of 45 in 1994 by KO against Michael Moorer. Amazingly regaining the title 20 years after losing it to Ali. Foreman is in the record books for the oldest man ever to win the championship at 45 years old, and also for having the 2nd highest knockout percentage in heavyweight history.

4. Rocky Marciano - The Rock was known for his amazing stamina in the ring like the energizer bunny you can keep beating him down but he just kept on coming. Incredible stamina, iron chin, unbeatable will to win, ability to knock you out with both hands, deadly body shots. What more can you ask for in a fighter. His 49-0 record still stands to this day.

5. Larry Holmes- The Easton Assassin was known for his lightning jab that was strong enough to knock you down. Holmes never got respect because unlike Ali he lacked an arch nemesis liek Ali had with Frazier, and he also ruled during a bleak period in heavyweight history. Spent 8 years as heavywieght Champ and went 48-0 before losing to Spinks almost tying Marciano's 49-0 record.

6. Joe Frazier- one word to describe him- relentless . Like Marciano you can throw everything at this guy and he'd still keep on coming. Owner of one of the deadliest left hooks in heavyweight history. The first man to beat Ali. His 3 dramatic fights with Ali made Smokin Joe Frazier a legend.

7. Lennox Lewis- During his title reign the British lion fought and defeated all the top heavyweights of his day including Holyfield and Tyson. Look at the list of all the fighters The British Lion has defeated and you'll see his place in history cannot be denied. Possessed one of the deadliest right hands in heavyweight history.

8.Evander Holyfield - Evander The Real Deal Holyfield is a man with incredible heart. Possesses one of the greatest chins of all time , this man didnt know the meaning of the word -quit. Proved the critics wrong time after time. Saying he wasnt big enough to be a Heavyweight he went on to win the title a record 4 times. His most dramtic win was when he defeated Iron Mike Tyson for the Title in 1996 when everyone wrote Holyfield off as a hasbeen.

9. Mike Tyson- Iron Mike Tyson's place in history is bittersweet to me because I feel had he stayed with trainer Kevin Rooney, Mike Tyson had the POTENTIAL to become the greatest Heavyweight Champ of all time. Everyone knows Tysons story. Tyson had incredible speed, incredible KO power, great finisher, a violent blood lust to destroy his opponent. Many of Tysons fight would not go past the 2nd round. During Tyson's 3 year reign of terror opponents feared Tyson so much that they would forget to fight back. With his black shoes no socks, black trunks, fade haircut and gym towel draped on his shoulders he had an aura of invincibility that the ring had never seen before or since. In 1988 this man was frightening, his 90 second annihilation of Michael Spinks and 4 round destruction of Larry Holmes truly made him the "Baddest man on the planet".

10. Jack Dempsey- the Monnassa Mauler- was a devestating force to be reckoned with back in his day. Knocked out Jess willard in violent fashion knocking Willards teeth out literally to win the Heavyweight Title,,,,and Dempsey was outweighed by Willard by more than 50 lbs!!!. Dempsey style was the prototype to Tyson, Tyson even borrowed Dempseys style of wearing black shoes, black shorts, fade haircut from Dempsey. Going for the knock out Dempsey could knock you out with either hand. Pure assassin.

***special note - Jack Johnson is my #11. The reason I dont have him ranked higher is because he ruled in an old time era when heavyweights would fight middleweights and even welterweights. In fact Johnson himself fought many fights with many weight mismatches. Had Johnson ruled in a "Modernised Era" he would have placed higher on my list. With that being said I believe Johnson was extremely talented and can even defeat some of the men that rank higher in my list.***

Good list but id but louis number one, and where is liston?

M26
12-29-2004, 06:06 PM
First of, my list is not a "who beats who" list. For instance, Foreman would probably demolish both Marciano and Dempsey, but I still rank him below those guys. It is a matter of who was greatest over all. Marciano never lost a fight and had more heart than most all-time fighters. He also had power and a impressive chin. Foreman had a shorter reign and retired at age 27. Making him the third greatest heavyweight of all time is not fair to guys like Marciano and Dempsey. Had Ali never made his comeback in the 70s, Foreman would probably reign for a looong time and thus becoming a greater all-time heavyweight.

1. Joe Louis
Joe Louis had the longest reign, the most title defences, met decent opponents and was without a doubt the most complete heavyweight of all time. Further, he might very well have beaten every other fighter on this list.

2. Muhammad Ali (a close second, and far ahead of number 3)
3. Rocky Marciano (undefeated against mediocre opponents - alot of heart!)
4. Jack Dempsey (everything Tyson ever WANTED to be...)
5. Gene Tunney (underrated - best BOXER of all time in my book)
6. Larry Holmes (had great overall tools, combined with heart and a great chin)
7. George Foreman (could beat almost everyone on this list - awesome in his prime, boggled my mind as a fat old guy!)
8. Joe Frazier (superb left hook, a lions heart, great stamina)
9. Sonny Liston (alot like Tyson, power, a solid chin and no heart, but a better boxer though)
10. Evander Holyfield (the best of the 1990s)

(11. Mike Tyson).

I do not know where to rank Jack Johnson and Jeffries. I have heard good things about both of them, but I have never seen any fights. The vote is not in yet when it comes to Lennox Lewis. He handled an aging Tyson very well and also defeated Holyfield. Still, I just cannot bring my self to consider him truly great. If I were forced to place him, it would be at number 12..

zoo
12-31-2004, 05:16 AM
***special note - Jack Johnson is my #11. The reason I dont have him ranked higher is because he ruled in an old time era when heavyweights would fight middleweights and even welterweights. In fact Johnson himself fought many fights with many weight mismatches. Had Johnson ruled in a "Modernised Era" he would have placed higher on my list. With that being said I believe Johnson was extremely talented and can even defeat some of the men that rank higher in my list.***

Good man, Johnson is way overrated.

buff_mike10
02-13-2005, 11:15 AM
Rocky Marciano
Mike Tyson
Larry Holmes
Joe Frasier
Muhammad Ali
Sonny Liston
Floyd Patterson
Joe Louis
Jack Dempsey
Evander Holyfield

QueenCity
02-13-2005, 03:02 PM
1. Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Geo. Foreman
5. Joe Frazier
6. Jack Johnson
7. Rocky Marciano
8. Ezzard Charles
9. Gene Tunney
10. Lennox Lewis (just becasue he changed the size of the common heavyweight forever)

Dynamite76
02-13-2005, 03:47 PM
First of, my list is not a "who beats who" list. For instance, Foreman would probably demolish both Marciano and Dempsey, but I still rank him below those guys. It is a matter of who was greatest over all. Marciano never lost a fight and had more heart than most all-time fighters. He also had power and a impressive chin. Foreman had a shorter reign and retired at age 27. Making him the third greatest heavyweight of all time is not fair to guys like Marciano and Dempsey. Had Ali never made his comeback in the 70s, Foreman would probably reign for a looong time and thus becoming a greater all-time heavyweight.

1. Joe Louis
Joe Louis had the longest reign, the most title defences, met decent opponents and was without a doubt the most complete heavyweight of all time. Further, he might very well have beaten every other fighter on this list.

2. Muhammad Ali (a close second, and far ahead of number 3)
3. Rocky Marciano (undefeated against mediocre opponents - alot of heart!)
4. Jack Dempsey (everything Tyson ever WANTED to be...)
5. Gene Tunney (underrated - best BOXER of all time in my book)
6. Larry Holmes (had great overall tools, combined with heart and a great chin)
7. George Foreman (could beat almost everyone on this list - awesome in his prime, boggled my mind as a fat old guy!)
8. Joe Frazier (superb left hook, a lions heart, great stamina)
9. Sonny Liston (alot like Tyson, power, a solid chin and no heart, but a better boxer though)
10. Evander Holyfield (the best of the 1990s)

(11. Mike Tyson).

I do not know where to rank Jack Johnson and Jeffries. I have heard good things about both of them, but I have never seen any fights. The vote is not in yet when it comes to Lennox Lewis. He handled an aging Tyson very well and also defeated Holyfield. Still, I just cannot bring my self to consider him truly great. If I were forced to place him, it would be at number 12..


Ali should be #1 and Holmes did more at heavy than Tunney.He should be ranked higher.

Imira
02-15-2005, 10:32 PM
1. Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Geo. Foreman
5. Joe Frazier
6. Jack Johnson
7. Rocky Marciano
8. Ezzard Charles
9. Gene Tunney
10. Lennox Lewis (just becasue he changed the size of the common heavyweight forever)

Looks like my list, except Larry Holmes is replaced by Sonny Liston and Lennox Lewis is replaced by Jersey Joe Walcott.

dodge
02-16-2005, 07:10 PM
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Lewis
5. Holyfield
6. Foreman
7. Frazier
8. Tyson
9. Charles
10. Marciano

dodge
02-16-2005, 07:17 PM
I think it's cool that some of you guys have Jeffries on there, I'm glad he isn't completely forgotten. I still need to find video of him.

If Rocky Marciano could beat George Foreman, then he is the greatest heavyweight of all time, because that would mean his chin is unbreakable, and he could never be stopped. But unfortunately, I think he would get destroyed.

I also see that Jack Johnson is ranked in the Top 3 sometimes, I'd love to see some good quality video of him so I could see his technique.
If Ken Jennings had a top 10 heavyweight list I wouldn't question it. :boxing:

dodge
02-18-2005, 01:24 AM
I want to change my list to:

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Lewis
5. Holyfield
6. Foreman
7. Frazier
8. Tyson
9. Charles
10. Patterson

Pugnacious_Z
02-18-2005, 01:29 AM
1. tyson
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Lewis
5. Holyfield
6. Foreman
7. Frazier
8.ali
9. Charles
10. Patterson

RipTheJacker
03-13-2005, 02:50 PM
This, unlike all other weight classes is a hard question. for example. I'd rank Marciano ahead of Holyfield for what the Rock did but at 185 pounds i don't think he'd be competitive against a 220 Holyfield or 250 Lennox. Other than that I'd have the topic starters 6,7,8 reading 8,7 Mike Tyson at eight Jack Johnson 9 Dempsey 10.

leff
03-13-2005, 05:02 PM
1.Marciano best stamina and heart ever undeafeted.
2.Louis longest tittle reign.
3.Ali fought and beat great competiton.
4.Foreman worst bear to ever enter a ring.
5.Frazier amazing will, staying power and left hook.
6.Holmes.
7.Liston.
8.Holyfield.
9.Tyson.
10.Lewis.

kapersky
03-14-2005, 01:46 AM
1. tyson
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Lewis
5. Holyfield
6. Foreman
7. Frazier
8.ali
9. Charles
10. Patterson

NO OFFENCE, but are you kidding with us?

arhoihoi
03-14-2005, 03:13 AM
I think it's cool that some of you guys have Jeffries on there, I'm glad he isn't completely forgotten. I still need to find video of him.

If Rocky Marciano could beat George Foreman, then he is the greatest heavyweight of all time, because that would mean his chin is unbreakable, and he could never be stopped. But unfortunately, I think he would get destroyed.

I also see that Jack Johnson is ranked in the Top 3 sometimes, I'd love to see some good quality video of him so I could see his technique.

mike tyson lennox holyfield

NiGe2011
03-14-2005, 03:25 AM
1. Hasim Rahman (for length of reign alone)
2. John Ruiz (for exciting style)
3. Riddick Bowe (for respect for the title)
4. Evander Holyfield (cause he knows when to quit)
5. Erik Morales (wait... I don't understand the game)

Prospekt
03-16-2005, 09:28 AM
I think the strongest and the best heavyweight fighter of all time is Rocky "The Brockton Blockbuster" Marciano with his incredibly powerful quick hands and his steel chin. His 49-0 record speaks for itself, the only boxer to have an undefeated boxing career.

BadMagick
03-16-2005, 05:33 PM
I can't rate top 10, because I haven't seen enough older fights. I do want to say that there are a lot of Tyson nuthuggers on this board, though. A lot of people have him too high, and don't have others that should be on a list there.

Shaolin Bushido
03-16-2005, 05:36 PM
Seriously, Muhammad Ali would pwn anyone who ever held the title ...



... TEN TIMES!

Tha Greatest
03-16-2005, 05:46 PM
Tyson does not deserve to be in top 10...

The Troll
03-16-2005, 11:22 PM
I am not going to try to do a top ten because I have not scene enough of the old fighters to attempt to do so. But I will say the number 1 greatest champion in my opinion was Joe Louis, Simply because he defended the undisputed Heavyweight Championship over 20 consecutive times.

czars_salad
03-17-2005, 07:57 AM
Tyson does not deserve to be in top 10...
i agree with you, i even think he belongs to the bottom ten

Southpaw16
03-17-2005, 12:10 PM
Definately not Tyson in the top ten. Not even close. People forget that a prime Mike Tyson got knocked out by Buster Douglas. Some people here may want to argue that it should be overlooked since Lewis got kayoed by Rahman, but Lewis's knockout was a lucky punch. Buster Douglas dominated the fight against Tyson before stopping him.

Renegade
03-17-2005, 08:32 PM
Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Jack Johnson
Rocky Marciano
Jack Dempsey
Joe Frazier
John L Sullivan
Gentleman Jim Corbitt
Larry Holmes
Sonny Liston

MotorCityCobra
03-18-2005, 08:49 PM
1. Muhammad Ali

2. Joe Louis
3. George Foreman
4. Larry Holmes

5. Evander Holyfield
6. Lennox Lewis

7. Sonny Liston
8. Rocky Marciano
9. Joe Frazier
10. Mike Tyson

11. Riddick Bowe
12. Jack Johnson

Kid Achilles
03-19-2005, 02:03 PM
I guess you don't like Dempsey but c'mon, you don't even include him in your top twelve?

MotorCityCobra
03-19-2005, 03:35 PM
No, actually I do like Dempsey. I just don't personally think he belongs with the others.

adeelr
03-23-2005, 12:06 AM
Muhammad Ali
Joe Loise
mike tyson
Lennox Lewis
George foreman
jack dempsey
Marciano
Evander Holifield
Joe Frazier
jersey joe walcott

jenson69
03-23-2005, 01:54 AM
Muhammad Ali
Manny Pacquiao
mike tyson
Lennox Lewis
Thomas Hearns
Flash Elorde
Marciano
Roberto Duran
Marvin Hagler
Sugar Ray Leonard

czars_salad
03-23-2005, 02:29 AM
Muhammad Ali
Manny Pacquiao
mike tyson
Lennox Lewis
Thomas Hearns
Flash Elorde
Marciano
Roberto Duran
Marvin Hagler
Sugar Ray Leonard
i thought this thread is for the top 10 heavyweight champs? LOL

J !
03-23-2005, 01:32 PM
1. Ali / Joe Louis
I Cant Seperate Never Have Been Able To
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Larry Holmes
5. George Foreman
6. Jack Johnson
7. Marciano
8. Holyfield
9. Liston
10. Tyson

Honourable Mentions For Smokin Joe /dempsey / Ezzard Charles / John L Sullivan And Gentleman Jim.

thirdplacebass
03-24-2005, 12:47 AM
1. Marciano - Highest KO percentage ever, undefeated, only ever KNOCKED DOWN once, beat Joe Louis (late), beat Ezzard Charles, twice. Best ever, period.
2. Ali - Did a ton for the sport as far as making it accessible to the masses. His defeat of a young, top-of-his game Foreman solidified him as one of the greatest.
3. Joe Louis - 26 title defenses? Forget it.
4. Jack Johnson - Did it when men where men. Boxing was a different game then (if you want to call it that). The end of his career was disappointing and tragic to say the least.
5. Tyson - No one ever could touch him in his prime, but he has since ruined his legacy. Unfortunately, he can't be ranked much higher.
6. Foreman - Most powerful puncher ever. His comeback will go unprecidented for years to come.
7. Frazier - Straight up beat Ali. There's something to be said for taht.
8. Lewis - The loss to Rahman hurts him, but he did the wise thing and left at the top of his game.
9. Holyfield - Please stop fighting.
10. Vitali Klitchko - Time will tell. The Lewis fight spoke volumes for his skill.

FuryDragon
03-25-2005, 12:50 AM
I'd say that Marciano should be a little higher on the totem pole considering he faced reasonable opposition, never lost, and was the only heavyweight champion in boxing history to retire as the champ with an undefeated record.

RwK
03-25-2005, 02:35 AM
This is really hard and off the top of my head, I would say:

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Foreman
4. Dempsey
5. Liston
6. Holmes
7. Jack Johnson
8. Max Schmelling
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Evander Holyfield

would be my pics. I expect to see some angry criticism I suppose. Rocky Marciano was overrated to the max.

giulio.m
03-26-2005, 01:56 PM
My top 10 HW all time could be like this:

1) Ali
2) Joe Louis
3) Jack Johnson
4) Jack Dempsey
5) George Foreman
6) Mike Tyson (My preferred HW, but unfortunaly he could not be the best for many reasons, you know..)
7) Larry Holmes
8) Joe Frazier
9) Rocky Marciano
10) Lennox Lewis

Cambria
04-30-2005, 02:10 AM
#1 Marciano - Undefeated Heavyweight Champ - That record will go unmatched for a LONG LONG TIME. Think 100 pt game in basketball
#2 Lennox Lewis (faced all the greats of his time, only lost twice and avenged both)
#3 Ali - I think he was to much of a mouth. To much of a chicken **** to go fight in Nam but liked fighting in the ring. *****
#4 George Foreman - Great Champ with a wonderful personality
#5 Jack Dempsey
#6 Iron Mike - The count on Douglas was slow and he was never the same after Cus died
#7 Evander Holyfield - Evander if there is anyway you are reading this, please retire.
#8 Joe Fraz - He met his match with Foreman but Fraz was a great champ
#9 Joe Louis - Great Champ
#10 Klitchko - We will have to see on this one. Time will tell.

Tha Greatest
04-30-2005, 03:31 AM
#1 Marciano - Undefeated Heavyweight Champ - That record will go unmatched for a LONG LONG TIME. Think 100 pt game in basketball
#2 Lennox Lewis (faced all the greats of his time, only lost twice and avenged both)
#3 Ali - I think he was to much of a mouth. To much of a chicken **** to go fight in Nam but liked fighting in the ring. *****
#4 George Foreman - Great Champ with a wonderful personality
#5 Jack Dempsey
#6 Iron Mike - The count on Douglas was slow and he was never the same after Cus died
#7 Evander Holyfield - Evander if there is anyway you are reading this, please retire.
#8 Joe Fraz - He met his match with Foreman but Fraz was a great champ
#9 Joe Louis - Great Champ
#10 Klitchko - We will have to see on this one. Time will tell.


You are a ****ing idiot.........

















go watch some real boxing and learn

You callin ali a *****? ur a *****

Marciano b4 Louis? wtf
Marciano just beat up bums his whole career

Prime Louis KO's Marciano

Cambria
04-30-2005, 08:35 PM
Really, how do you know? Where you there? No so shut the **** up.

Marciano beat Louis.

Isn't my fault he didn't know when to retire.

In fact you are such a stupid **** I don't expect much out of you. Keep typing you internet soldier. Stupid dumb ass.

Cambria
04-30-2005, 08:44 PM
Matter of fact the guy was asking for people's opinion.

Learn to ****ing read. Everybody has their own views.

Shouldn't you be in school? Be it in "Ali style, slow class" or gradeschool. Window licking short bus rider :<

prtynacan
06-14-2005, 01:22 AM
Top 10 of Champs I've seen - to me, a great champ is based on talent, influence on the sport, dominance during their primes and eras, and length of reign.

1. Ali - if only he didn't lose the best 3 years of his fight life. I'm convinced young Ali could dominate anyone during his era, as long as he fought smart. Pretty much changed the way people believed boxing should be fought with his innovative style.

2. Louis - incredible reign of title defenses, great power in both hands, amazing quickness.

3. Marciano - never gave up, incredible warrior - especially at 135 - fought and beat the best of his time, including charles, walcott, and an old Louis. I'm surprised that people don't respect the rock - 49 wins, 43 KOs. He didn't fight anyone? He fought and knocked out 3 former champs, which is more than I can say for Tyson - yet Tyson gets so much respect and the Rock doesn't.

4. Lewis - Despite some questionable losses - avenged them, and when on his game, dominated all 90's competition - including the best.

5. Johnson - Amazing defensive specialist, and was just so much bigger than fighters of his era. Way ahead of his time.

6. Holyfield - Mainly a sentimental pick, my personal favorite fighters because of his great heart and never die mentality. Fights with Riddick Bowe and Tyson define him.

7. Dempsey - Created the style that marciano, frazier and tyson would follow, one of the most charismatic champs ever.

8. Frazier - another sentimental pick - sure people will complain that he's ahead of foreman, but Frazier was much more diverse, and just had a much better flow to his style. He could give the great boxers a tough time, Foreman couldn't.

9. Tunney - Not an active champ but beat the best.

10. Foreman - Pure intimdation, could beat any slugger in heavyweight history, but would get destroyed by the boxers.

Some very questionable ones I've seen posted - Ezzard Charles, without mentioning Walcott, and also Floyd Patterson? No way - might as well put Roy Jones in there if you're going to include Patterson. Young Tyson might deserve to be on there, but I can't overlook the fact that he lost to Buster Douglas and has never beaten a great fighter in his prime.

davidf
06-15-2005, 12:46 AM
1.dempsey ( none could have handled HIM in his prime) maybe ali
2. ali beacuse he was the greatest
3.marciano because he was undefeated
4.holmes would have beat marciano,s record (the fix was in)
5.louis was great champion
6.tyson could have been the greatest EVER
7.???
8. WHO CARES
9. THAT,S MY LIST

Ceratogyrus
06-17-2005, 04:36 PM
1.Joe Louis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Larry Holmes
4.Jack Johnson
5.George Foreman
6.Joe Frazier
7.Rocky Marciano
8.Lennox Lewis
9.Evander Holyfield
10.Jack Dempsey

dmar
07-02-2005, 09:08 AM
well here goes1.marciano2.louis3.dempsey4.holmes5.ali6.johns on7.foreman8.frazier9.tunney10.lewis..11.liston 12.tyson13.charles14.holyfield15.walcott

Mike Tyson Jr.
07-02-2005, 08:36 PM
This thread is a joke.
Mike Tyson is the greatest
of all time and should be
rated #1. Nobody dominated like
Tyson when he was champ. NOBODY.

MetalVomit
07-03-2005, 12:31 AM
This thread is a joke.
Mike Tyson is the greatest
of all time and should be
rated #1. Nobody dominated like
Tyson when he was champ. NOBODY.


Nut
Hug-
ger

Mike Tyson Jr.
07-03-2005, 01:24 AM
Nut
Hug-
ger



ok name one heavyweight that
dominated his opponenets and
had them ****ting in their pants
the way that tyson did for 4 years.
you cant because nobody else did it.
NOBODY

MetalVomit
07-03-2005, 01:36 AM
ok name one heavyweight that
dominated his opponenets and
had them ****ting in their pants
the way that tyson did for 4 years.
you cant because nobody else did it.
NOBODY



Tyson was nasty in his prime, but how many top tier opponents has he beaten?

Mike Tyson Jr.
07-03-2005, 01:39 AM
Tyson was nasty in his prime, but how many top tier opponents has he beaten?


You got to be kidding. He beat Larry Holmes
who is one of the greatest of all time. And he
wiped out a hall of famer in 90 seconds(Spinks).
Not to mention all the top ten fighters he
destroyed on his way to the championship.

hellfire508
07-06-2005, 11:37 PM
Here is my list:
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Rocky Marciano
4. George Foreman
5. Larry Holmes
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Joe Frazier
8. Sonny Liston
9. Jack Johnson
10. Evander Holyfield
11. Mike Tyson
12. Gene Tunney
13. Jim Jeffries
14. Lennox Lewis
15. Jersey Joe Walcott

Stop making out as if Tyson is so damn great. "He beat an atg in larry holmes" -- holmes was way past it.
Michael spinks was GREAT at LH, not HW.
Tyson's opposition dont compare to my top 10 list, and he never got off the canvas. He was a gREAt fighter no doubt, but he has his flaws.

hellfire508
07-06-2005, 11:39 PM
1.dempsey ( none could have handled HIM in his prime) maybe ali
2. ali beacuse he was the greatest
3.marciano because he was undefeated
4.holmes would have beat marciano,s record (the fix was in)
5.louis was great champion
6.tyson could have been the greatest EVER
7.???
8. WHO CARES
9. THAT,S MY LIST

Thats pretty sad if you say "who cares". Dempsey was very vulnerable in his prime. Foreman would have beaten him (bad styles clash), Ali would have, and i think Holmes and Louis probably would have too. Marciano would have been a war.

hellfire508
07-06-2005, 11:41 PM
This thread is a joke.
Mike Tyson is the greatest
of all time and should be
rated #1. Nobody dominated like
Tyson when he was champ. NOBODY.
LMAO!
Nuthugger.
So why isnt his reign as long as Louis, or Holmes, or ali? And his quality of opposition is second tier.

-Nova-
07-07-2005, 01:59 AM
wassup fellow boxing heads. My list of top ten are mainly all hard hitting aggressive fighters because that's what i think makes a great fighter.
1.) Muhammad Ali - although i did say hard hitting agressive fighters are what makes a fighter great, the fact that Ali fought against those type of guys doing the complete opposite and winning makes him the greatest.
2.)Mike Tyson - Iron mike may have suffered brutal losses in his last few fights, but back in the day he was a wrecking ball that no one could last a full twelve with until don king and lawers screwed his head up.
3.) Joe Louis - The brown bomber is my father's favorite. 68-3, he ran through opponents, and would've ran through Marciano if he was younger.
4.) Rocky Marciano - 49-0 speaks for itself. Gotta give respect to that.
5.)George Foreman - Big George was one of the most intimidating fighters of all time. Haymaker after haymaker, this guy couldn't be stopped even in his 40's
6.) Sonny Liston - Sonny Liston was a beast. Before the fight began he would scare the crap out of his opponents, and then knock em out.
7.) Joe Frazier - Smoking Joe was real cool with me. He was able to take multiple blows to the head and still come through and knock you out.
8.) Larry Holmes - You simply just gotta give him a big round of applause. My man was fighting from '73 to '02 and retired with 69 wins and only 4 losses!!!
9.) Jack Johnson - Great fighter, and you gotta love him for showing the world just how equally good us african americans are at boxing. You gotta at least respect him unless your some type of racist.
10.Lennox Lewis - i'm not a fan of Lennox. In fact i hate him, but i do know that he ruthlessly ruled the heavyweight division and retired for no reason. When i was watchin the last fight of his career i thought that Klitscko was the man, but watching him fight now, i think Lewis should come out of retirement and knock out that bum and his brother.

-popsikal, aka c-dough, aka the highschooler

Pugnacious_Z
07-07-2005, 05:09 AM
1.tyson
2.tyson
3.tyson
4.tyson
5.tyson
6.tyson
7.tyson
8.tyson
9.tyson
10.tyson
oh and number 11 is
tyson

hellfire508
07-07-2005, 09:38 AM
1.tyson
2.tyson
3.tyson
4.tyson
5.tyson
6.tyson
7.tyson
8.tyson
9.tyson
10.tyson
oh and number 11 is
tyson

Gee great list. Are you a Tyson fan at all?

-Nova-
07-07-2005, 05:31 PM
I might have to agree with Pugnacious_Z. He may be right

hellfire508
07-07-2005, 10:35 PM
I might have to agree with Pugnacious_Z. He may be right
Are you being serious or not? Cos damn you are uneducated in and unaware of boxing history if you think that.

-Nova-
07-08-2005, 12:37 AM
Just ****in around dog. Relax

Ali_is_the_greatest17
07-12-2005, 03:36 PM
Here are my top ten..

1)Ali (the great one)
2)Rocky Marciano
3)Joe Louis
4)Jack Dempsey
5)Jack Johnson
6)Joe Frazier
7)George Foreman
8)Evander Holyfield
9)Ken Norton
10)Mike Tyson

Martin80
07-28-2005, 08:38 AM
My top twenty are:
1 Muhammad Ali
2 Joe Louis
3 Rocky Marciano
4 George Foreman
5 Lennox Lewis
6 Jack Johnson
7 Mike Tyson
8 Joe Frazier
9 Teofilo Stevenson
10 Jack Dempsey
11 Evander Holyfield
12 Sonny Liston
13 Larry Holmes
14 Felix Savon
15 John L Sullivan
16 Gene Tunney
17 Floyd Patterson
18 Jim Jeffries
19 Ken Norton
20 Jim Corbett.
If you take out the amateurs then the next two would be Riddick Bowe & Joe Walcott.
I agree Foreman would knock out Marciano but most of these fighters have lost to lower ranked fighters.

TheEvilSaint
07-28-2005, 08:58 AM
Welcome to BoxingScene!

my top 10 are:

1. Joe Louis (longest reign and most defenses ever)
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Rocky Marciano
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Jack Johnson
6. Mike Tyson
7. Larry Holmes
8. Evander Holyfield
9. George Foreman
10. Joe Frazier

i hate lennox lewis, but ill put him up there if you want...

rocco1252
07-28-2005, 04:11 PM
1. Marciano
2. Ali
3. Foreman
4. Louis
5. Dempsey
6. Frazier
7. Holmes
8. Holyfield
9. Liston
10. Charles

The_One77
07-28-2005, 07:39 PM
1. Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. George foreman
4. Larry Holmes
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Lennox Lewis
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Joe Frazier
9. Mike Tyson
10. Sonny Liston

Ali_is_the_greatest17
07-29-2005, 12:18 PM
Tyson does not deserve to be in top 10...

I know....hes probably in the top 50 and he is probably number 50..

Warhawk46
09-09-2005, 10:56 PM
I'm laughing at some of the negative comments made concerning Iron Mike...."maybe top 50?" WTF?? Pure, unadulturated bias.

1. Joe Louis: simply put, the most complete heavyweight fighter I
have ever seen. Yeah, he had the Bum-of-the-Month club, but he
was so technically sound.
2. Muhammed Ali: Awesome feet, incredibly fast hands (although
his flicking jab is not like throwing a three punch power
combo), incredible heart and arrogance. He fought great
competition and won almost every time, although he
definately was given his share of "gift" decisions.
3. Foreman: Two distict title reigns are very impressive. He was
simply a monster back in his day (although he is average-sized
compared to the last couple decades). Hardest one-punch hitter
ever.
4. Holmes: Awesome jab, incredible generalship, heart. Very solid
chin. He could've beat Ali when Ali was younger. His KO loss
to Tyson hurts a bit because he was still a very, very good
fighter even at his age. He showed by going on and winning
several fights against top-10 fighters.
5. Marciano: 49-0 (43 KOs) Hard to dispute the facts. He often
gets knocked for not having fought "elite competition" but
then again so did Louis and Holmes, Tyson and others. In fact,
writers tend to say this about anyone but those who fought
during the 1970s
6. Jack Johnson, a fighter who fought before modern times yet
still had the skills of modern fighters. His defense was
outstanding, however consider the crude skills of the type of
fighter he usually fought. Still, Johnson is an all-time
great.
7. Mike Tyson: He was the most complete fighter since Louis in
terms of skill and technical prowess. He was the greatest
puncher since Louis. Every punch was thrown correctly and on
balance. His environment and personal losses contributed to a
shorter prime. However, no fighter has been more dominant
during their prime years. He could have been rated up there
with Louis and Ali, but unfortunately personal problems would
never allow this to happen.
8. Lennox Lewis: A great, highly skilled giant. His sheer size
and ability makes him the odds on favorite in head-to-head mat
ches. He beat both Holyfield and Tyson (although Iron Mike was
so far faded it hardly counts). Still, Lewis was a master
general in the ring and really only lost when he got lazy. He
was lucky enough to get the rematches and proved he was the
superior fighter to both men.
9. Jack Dempsey: A mauler who originated the bob and weave
technique employed by Frazier and (somewhat, considering
Tyson's style was a little different) Tyson, he was hugely
popular. He could, however be KO'd. He didnt fight often
enough as champion, but his legendary excitement warrants
status; his skills and aggressive style are enduring.
10. Holyfield/Frazier: I cant decide. Frazier was great, had a
lethal left hook and was dogged. His style was made to give
Ali fits. He got annihilated by Big George. Holyfield was all
heart and incredible skills. He orginally fought at a
cruiser, but his fram is definately big enough to be a
legitimate heavyweight. He has been up and down during his
reign, but has always provided excitement. He should have
retired a few years ago.

Honorable Mentions: Liston, Jeffries, Tunney, Jersy Joe Walcott, Moore, Norton, Smith, Langford, Patterson, Baer

THE REAL NINJA
09-10-2005, 01:31 AM
wow ken norton at 10 over tyson, lewis, liston

abyrvalg
09-10-2005, 03:08 PM
Ali
Louis
Holmes
Holyfield
Marciano
Liston
Frazier
Tyson
Lewis
Foreman

Dempsey 1919
10-25-2005, 04:27 PM
My list is the true list of all time great heavyweight champs:

1) Muhammad Ali
2) Sonny Liston
3) Joe Louis
4) Jack Johnson
5) Larry Holmes
6) George Foreman
7) Mike Tyson
8) Joe Frazier
9) Jack Dempsey
10) Rocky Marciano

rge
10-25-2005, 09:11 PM
My list is the true list of all time great heavyweight champs:

1) Muhammad Ali
2) Sonny Liston
3) Joe Louis
4) Jack Johnson
5) Larry Holmes
6) George Foreman
7) Mike Tyson
8) Joe Frazier
9) Jack Dempsey
10) Rocky Marciano

Why is the true list? :confused:

Dempsey 1919
10-25-2005, 11:10 PM
because it is. Number 1 could beat 2, and 2 beat 3, and 3 4, and so on.

ToiBoi
10-29-2005, 04:37 PM
Jeffries was the forerunner of the modern athelete, strong and lightning fast. Videos of him are rare. I would like to have seen him fight Johnson both in prime. I think because of the Johnson/Jeffries fight, Jeff is underrated, Johnson overrated. Johnson had no chin but thick skin as he did take a lot of crap.

Dempsey 1919
10-29-2005, 04:49 PM
jeffries? are you serious? he was trash. he is trash because he was small, slow and overrated because he was white and he was supposed to be the great white hope. johnson exposed him. and even though they say jeffries was old, jeffries said himself he couldn't beat johnson in his prime. the first real great heavyweight was jack johnson, all others were bums my grandma could beat. get over it!

fistlegend
10-29-2005, 05:14 PM
1)ali
2)louis
3)maricano
4)tyson
5)foreman
6)frazier
7)liston
8)holmes
9)max baer
10)lewis

habZ
10-30-2005, 07:20 PM
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Foreman
6. Marciano
7. Frazier
8. Liston
9. Tyson
10. Holmes

BSD
11-10-2005, 01:12 AM
I have two lists. One is the KO ratio of ten champions. The other is the total time as undisputed champion for those same ten. By undisputed, I mean the universal champion or holding at least 3 out of 4 of the world title belts. To be on the list a champion had to be undisputed for a total of at least 2 years. Holmes, Foreman, and Liston don't make the cut.


KO ratio
1. Marciano 88%
2. Tyson 79%
3. Louis 76%
4. Frazier 73%
5. Lennox Lewis 73%
6. Jack Dempsey 65%
7. Floyd Patterson 63%
8. Ali 61%
9. Holyfield 52%
10. Jack Johnson 44%

Time as champ
1. Louis 11y 9m
2. Dempsey 7y 2m
3. Johnson 6y 4m
4. Patterson 4y 10m
5. Ali 3y 10m
6. Marciano 3y 7m
7. Frazier 2y 11m
8. Tyson 2y 6m
9. Lewis 2y 3m
10. Holyfield 2y 1m

For determining the ten greatest in order, I think duration as undisputed champ is the most important. But you can combine it with KO ratio or several other factors to make up your own mind.

KidBlackie
11-10-2005, 08:41 AM
[[[I have two lists. One is the KO ratio of ten champions. The other is the total time as undisputed champion for those same ten.]]]
============================

Interesting concept, but you forgot Jeffries, 5 yr 338 days/68% and Willard 4 yrs 90 days/57%. Seeing as it's almost impossible in the modern era to unify a title, I conclude being undisputed is not a good criteria for overall judgement. KO% is a good way though it tends to penalize the stylists a bit. The reason is that a guy like Louis or Tyson rarely if ever win controversially like an Ali did, though even Ali's KOs sometimes were controversial. However you have to normalize for the era. For example, Jeffries and Dempsey fought in the NC era and had one of the highest KO% of their eras. Modern fights are stopped earlier and KO% have risen because of it.

The number of title fights is a better indicator of excellence, though again, the modern era has many more title fights because of the split belts and modern rules.

KidBlackie
11-10-2005, 08:58 AM
jeffries? are you serious? he was trash. he is trash because he was small, slow and overrated because he was white and he was supposed to be the great white hope. johnson exposed him. and even though they say jeffries was old, jeffries said himself he couldn't beat johnson in his prime. the first real great heavyweight was jack johnson, all others were bums my grandma could beat. get over it!
Kid, empty trash cans always make the most noise. Just have your granny give you a kick to verify this.

In Jeff's 3rd pro fight he knocked out Hank Griffin and later won a lopsided 4 rd decision over him when Jeff held the belt. Johnson was 0-1-2 against Griffin. In Jeff's 8th pro fight he drew against Choynski in a 20 rd brawl. Past prime Choynski knocked Jack Johnson cold for 5 mins. Mexican Pete Everett could only last 3 rds against Jeffries, but he made the 20 rd limit against Johnson.

Facts are that Jeff was a natural talent from his first fight on. Johnson had a lot of setbacks and had to learn to fight defensively to protect a soft chin. When you look at the overlap in their careers and common fighters, Jeff dominates and it ain't even close. If it wasn't for Jeff being lured out of retirement for huge money and the White Hope Hype penned by Jack London, Johnson would be nothing but a footnote in history. His title reign was the weakest in history next to Tommy Burns. This was hammered home when an inexperienced raw cowboy name Willard knocked him dead for another 5 min.

Dempsey 1919
11-10-2005, 02:35 PM
Kid, empty trash cans always make the most noise. Just have your granny give you a kick to verify this.

In Jeff's 3rd pro fight he knocked out Hank Griffin and later won a lopsided 4 rd decision over him when Jeff held the belt. Johnson was 0-1-2 against Griffin. In Jeff's 8th pro fight he drew against Choynski in a 20 rd brawl. Past prime Choynski knocked Jack Johnson cold for 5 mins. Mexican Pete Everett could only last 3 rds against Jeffries, but he made the 20 rd limit against Johnson.

Facts are that Jeff was a natural talent from his first fight on. Johnson had a lot of setbacks and had to learn to fight defensively to protect a soft chin. When you look at the overlap in their careers and common fighters, Jeff dominates and it ain't even close. If it wasn't for Jeff being lured out of retirement for huge money and the White Hope Hype penned by Jack London, Johnson would be nothing but a footnote in history. His title reign was the weakest in history next to Tommy Burns. This was hammered home when an inexperienced raw cowboy name Willard knocked him dead for another 5 min.

no way was jeffries better than johnson. johnson took a dive in that fight because some whites said they would kill his wife if they didn't.

Da Iceman
11-10-2005, 07:48 PM
the only reason jeff was good was cuz he hit hard. johnson would outbox him any day in his life

JMCbulls
11-14-2005, 04:48 PM
the original post is same with mine, but i would put dempsey ahead of holyfield

Da Iceman
11-14-2005, 06:04 PM
1.Joe Louis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Rocky Marciano
4.George Foreman
5.Joe Frazier
6.Larry Holmes
7.Sonny Liston
8.Lennox Lewis
9.Evander Holyfield
10.Jack Johnson

Gemini531
12-06-2005, 07:44 PM
ALi
Tyson
Marciano
Frazier
Foreman
Liston
Patterson
Louis
Holmes
Johnson

Da Iceman
12-06-2005, 08:50 PM
you put patterson ahead of louis! what the hell did patterson do that made him so great

Dempsey 1919
12-07-2005, 12:55 AM
My list is the true list of all time great heavyweight champs:

1) Muhammad Ali
2) Sonny Liston
3) Joe Louis
4) Jack Johnson
5) Larry Holmes
6) George Foreman
7) Mike Tyson
8) Joe Frazier
9) Jack Dempsey
10) Rocky Marciano

i'll change some of that.

1) Muhammad Ali
2) Sonny Liston
3) Larry Holmes
4) George Foreman
5) Joe Frazier
6) Mike Tyson
7) Jack Johnson
8) Joe Louis
9) Evander Holyfield
10) Lennox Lewis

Kid Achilles
12-07-2005, 11:24 AM
1) Muhammad Ali
2) Sonny Liston
3) Larry Holmes
4) George Foreman
5) Joe Frazier
6) Mike Tyson
7) Jack Johnson
8) Joe Louis
9) Evander Holyfield
10) Lennox Lewis

Sonny Liston above Joe Louis? Jack Johnson present when Dempsey and Marciano are missing?


:bsflag:

Kid Achilles
12-07-2005, 11:30 AM
I've been reading some of your earlier posts on this thread and am embarassed by your lack of historical knowledge in boxing. Jim Jeffries small? He was one of the naturally strongest men who've won the title. His dimensions were huge and he never lifted a weight. In terms of endurance he was a 6'1" 220 lb Rocky Marciano.

http://www.ibop.tv/gallery/images/Jim%20Jeffries%204_jpg.jpg

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/Images/jeff1.jpg

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/Images/jeffries1900.jpg

Yep, a real twerp!

Dempsey 1919
12-07-2005, 01:37 PM
1) Muhammad Ali
2) Sonny Liston
3) Larry Holmes
4) George Foreman
5) Joe Frazier
6) Mike Tyson
7) Jack Johnson
8) Joe Louis
9) Evander Holyfield
10) Lennox Lewis

Sonny Liston above Joe Louis? Jack Johnson present when Dempsey and Marciano are missing?


:bsflag:

liston is too big for louis and his hands are too fast for louis to avoid them, and he has ko power. johnson would embarass and destroy dempsey and marciano. marciano was unskilled and small, and dempsey was not as fast as johnson and kind of small, plus johnson could tie you up pretty easily to the point that you would get frustrated.

RockyMarcianofan00
12-07-2005, 09:52 PM
liston is too big for louis and his hands are too fast for louis to avoid them, and he has ko power. johnson would embarass and destroy dempsey and marciano. marciano was unskilled and small, and dempsey was not as fast as johnson and kind of small, plus johnson could tie you up pretty easily to the point that you would get frustrated.
i disagree i believe marciano would knock johnson out but thats also a hard fight to call because they fought in two totally different times but the reason johnson was good was because he was 6'0 or 6'1 and the average heavy weight was 5'7 i think Marciano would knock johnson out, know dempsey marciano that would be a fight

my top 10 heavyweights (first three are in that order the rest are in no paticular order)

Marciano
Louis
Foreman
Holmes
Tyson
Ali or Frazier
frazier or ali
Jersey Joe Walcott
ezzard charles
Archie Moore (i don't remember if he was heavy or light heavy but he packed a wallop)
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RockyMarcianofan00
12-07-2005, 09:53 PM
not to take away from johnson's skill as a boxer
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Kid Achilles
12-07-2005, 10:56 PM
ut thats also a hard fight to call because they fought in two totally different times but the reason johnson was good was because he was 6'0 or 6'1 and the average heavy weight was 5'7 i think Marciano would knock johnson out, know dempsey marciano that would be a fight


That is just not true. The average heavyweight was about 5'11", 6' or so, and there were many who were 6'2" and taller. In fact the only notable 5'7" heavyweight at the time was Tommy Burns if I recall correctly.

Johnson was good because he had great defensive skills, was as strong as a bull, and could really punch.

His only fault was a weak jaw. A lack of a chin is one of the reasons I favor both Marciano and especially Dempsey over him. The other is that I just don't see his flatfooted parrying style being effective against either man. You needed movement and a good jab against Marciano and Dempsey. You could not expect to stand in front of either and go the distance.

Dempsey 1919
12-07-2005, 11:17 PM
That is just not true. The average heavyweight was about 5'11", 6' or so, and there were many who were 6'2" and taller. In fact the only notable 5'7" heavyweight at the time was Tommy Burns if I recall correctly.

Johnson was good because he had great defensive skills, was as strong as a bull, and could really punch.

His only fault was a weak jaw. A lack of a chin is one of the reasons I favor both Marciano and especially Dempsey over him. The other is that I just don't see his flatfooted parrying style being effective against either man. You needed movement and a good jab against Marciano and Dempsey. You could not expect to stand in front of either and go the distance.

excuse me, johnson flatfooted? he wasn't a dancer like sugar ray robinson or ali, but he certainly wasn't flatfooted. he moved constantly and he had lightning fast reflexes, faster than dempsey's and especially faster than marciano's.

Kid Achilles
12-08-2005, 12:10 AM
He was definitely flatfooted. More so than Joe Louis. That's just the way he fought, it was his style. He was a power counter puncher. He moved to some degree but he was never, ever up on his toes. He was no Gene Tunney that's for sure, and that's what you needed to be to stay away from Dempsey. Tom Gibbons was a much better mover than Johnson and even he couldn't escape Dempsey's fury.

I don't see Johnson surviving Dempsey's assault, not with that style. Johnson never faced a bodypuncher like Jack Dempsey. The picking and parrying works well against guys who are headhunters but without mobility the body is always a viable target. When the opponent is Jack Dempsey, whose hands weren't much slower than Johnson's, it becomes increasingly dangerous to try and catch and parry those punches.

Dempsey would wear him out with a body attack and stop him/KO him late in the fight.

Dempsey 1919
12-08-2005, 12:20 AM
He was definitely flatfooted. More so than Joe Louis. That's just the way he fought, it was his style. He was a power counter puncher. He moved to some degree but he was never, ever up on his toes. He was no Gene Tunney that's for sure, and that's what you needed to be to stay away from Dempsey. Tom Gibbons was a much better mover than Johnson and even he couldn't escape Dempsey's fury.

I don't see Johnson surviving Dempsey's assault, not with that style. Johnson never faced a bodypuncher like Jack Dempsey. The picking and parrying works well against guys who are headhunters but without mobility the body is always a viable target. When the opponent is Jack Dempsey, whose hands weren't much slower than Johnson's, it becomes increasingly dangerous to try and catch and parry those punches.

Dempsey would wear him out with a body attack and stop him/KO him late in the fight.

worst post ever. so dempsey wasn't a headhunter? johnson moved well, when he needed to, he didn't waste energy by dancing around all the time, if dempsey threw a punch, johnson would quickly tie him up and frustrate him. you're fighting a losing battle, dempsey wasn't that good, someone like johnson could tie up any big puncher that was smaller than him, like dempsey was. and dempsey had a glass chin too, so how do you know johnson wouldn't overwhelm him, which he would, cause johnson is bigger and taller and more powerful and faster and has quicker reflexes. it's no contest.

leff
12-08-2005, 07:12 AM
i remember from a documentary that johnson hed his feet weel plantet on the canvas, i think the guy is slightly overrated as boxer because he was the first black champion.

i dont see him beating either marciano ore dempsey.

leff
12-08-2005, 07:14 AM
top ten

ali
louis
marciano

the 3 first are in no particular order, hard to decide.

foreman
frazier
liston
holmes
dempsey
tunney
lewis

Dempsey 1919
12-08-2005, 03:41 PM
top ten

ali
louis
marciano

the 3 first are in no particular order, hard to decide.

foreman
frazier
liston
holmes
dempsey
tunney
lewis

why is marciano in your top three? marciano is better that foreman, frazier, liston, holmes, dempsey, and lewis? i don't think so. they all would crush marciano with no problem at all.

Brockton Lip
12-08-2005, 05:02 PM
why is marciano in your top three? marciano is better that foreman, frazier, liston, holmes, dempsey, and lewis? i don't think so. they all would crush marciano with no problem at all.

I can definitely agree with Leff's top 3.

Dempsey 1919
12-08-2005, 05:15 PM
I can definitely agree with Leff's top 3.
i'll repeat myself. marciano can beat foreman, liston, holmes, frazier, tyson, louis, johnson, holyfield, dempsey, lewis, ect ect ect?

leff
12-08-2005, 05:20 PM
i'll repeat myself. marciano can beat foreman, liston, holmes, frazier, tyson, louis, johnson, holyfield, dempsey, lewis, ect ect ect?


marciaon could probably beat dempsey,tunney,johnson,frazier,liston and tyson.

i see him getting trouble from lewis ali and holmes

Dempsey 1919
12-08-2005, 05:50 PM
marciaon could probably beat dempsey,tunney,johnson,frazier,liston and tyson.

i see him getting trouble from lewis ali and holmes

no sense arguing with a marciano lover.

Kid Achilles
12-08-2005, 06:03 PM
Dempsey a glass-chinned headhunter?

For your own sake please stop here. You might look back on this post in a few years, when you've learned a little more about the sport's history, and cringe at your words.

For the purpose of your education, Dempsey was at his best on the inside and was a tremendous body puncher. If boxing matches were fought inside phone booths, Dempsey would have retired undefeated. Short blindingly fast punches thrown with complete bodyweight behind them were his specialty. His chin has always been considered well above average, and his recovery was astounding, perhaps the best of any heavyweight champion. You are the first person I've ever heard to suggest that Dempsey had a glass chin. Congratulations.

You've likely only seen him against Willard where 1. He was fighting a giant and so was forced to fight on the outside in the first moments of that fight 2. Caved in his cheek bone with the first flush hook that landed, and so he went out of his way to knock Willard out while he had him hurt. Yes he was wild in that fight because Willard was momentarily defenseless (showing primte Dempsey's great fighting instinct and awareness of his opponents condition) and had no way of hurting him back. You can see that in the second and third rounds where Willard has regained his senses and Dempsey, in reaction, boxes conservatively.

Your top ten list shows an apparent lack of knowledge concerning boxing pre-1960's, but you seem like a decent enough guy so it's forgivable. Stick to writing about Ali and leave the top ten lists to people who are more objective in their debates, who've done research (fight films and essays written by men who've actually seen these guys fight live), and are more interested in the truth than in some ulterior motive as in your case (your motive being building up Ali and his opponents of course).

I apologize if that comes across as harsh, but that's just how I see your list.

Yogi
12-08-2005, 06:03 PM
no sense arguing with a marciano lover.

LOL!

**** Butterfly...99.9% of the posts that I've read from you has to with your "love" for Ali, and YOU accuse somebody else of being bias towards a fighter?

That's comical, man.

Dempsey 1919
12-08-2005, 06:25 PM
Dempsey a glass-chinned headhunter?

For your own sake please stop here. You might look back on this post in a few years, when you've learned a little more about the sport's history, and cringe at your words.

For the purpose of your education, Dempsey was at his best on the inside and was a tremendous body puncher. If boxing matches were fought inside phone booths, Dempsey would have retired undefeated. Short blindingly fast punches thrown with complete bodyweight behind them were his specialty. His chin has always been considered well above average, and his recovery was astounding, perhaps the best of any heavyweight champion. You are the first person I've ever heard to suggest that Dempsey had a glass chin. Congratulations.

You've likely only seen him against Willard where 1. He was fighting a giant and so was forced to fight on the outside in the first moments of that fight 2. Caved in his cheek bone with the first flush hook that landed, and so he went out of his way to knock Willard out while he had him hurt. Yes he was wild in that fight because Willard was momentarily defenseless (showing primte Dempsey's great fighting instinct and awareness of his opponents condition) and had no way of hurting him back. You can see that in the second and third rounds where Willard has regained his senses and Dempsey, in reaction, boxes conservatively.

Your top ten list shows an apparent lack of knowledge concerning boxing pre-1960's, but you seem like a decent enough guy so it's forgivable. Stick to writing about Ali and leave the top ten lists to people who are more objective in their debates, who've done research (fight films and essays written by men who've actually seen these guys fight live), and are more interested in the truth than in some ulterior motive as in your case (your motive being building up Ali and his opponents of course).

I apologize if that comes across as harsh, but that's just how I see your list.

cute post kid achilles, but if he had a strong chin, then how come firpo knocked him down like twelve times. firpo is not that big a puncher. if he had a strong chin as you say then he wouldn't be knocked down. and tunney? tunney's even worse. he can't punch at all, and he knocked dempsey down. if he had a chin he wouldn't be floored by the soft punching marine. and i'm building up ali and his opponents? i don't think i am, maybe because they were that good? just because i put them in the top ten doesn't mean i'm building them up. basically everyone on this boxing forum would have foreman and frazier in the top ten, so i'm definetely not building them up. holmes is arguably the most underrated boxer ever, so i believe he is top ten material. liston is also, like foreman someone only seen as a bafoon who got embarrased by ali, but if you watch him in his prime, the speed, power and accuracy of his punches, and the heart he showed prior to and after the ali fights then you would have him as a top ten as well, so no you're all wrong.

Dempsey 1919
12-08-2005, 06:27 PM
LOL!

**** Butterfly...99.9% of the posts that I've read from you has to with your "love" for Ali, and YOU accuse somebody else of being bias towards a fighter?

That's comical, man.

i can understand someone liking and admiring marciano, there's nothing wrong with that. but to have him beating foreman, liston, tyson, and others would you know would be too big, strong, fast, and skilled for him and would crush him in two rounds or less, is just plain stupid! :cool:

leff
12-08-2005, 06:35 PM
no sense arguing with a marciano lover.

lol and that comes from the world biggest ali lover, yeah sure i love the rock but i dont live in ali`s ass like you

leff
12-08-2005, 06:38 PM
i can understand someone liking and admiring marciano, there's nothing wrong with that. but to have him beating foreman, liston, tyson, and others would you know would be too big, strong, fast, and skilled for him and would crush him in two rounds or less, is just plain stupid! :cool:


uuuum

didnt say foreman

Dempsey 1919
12-08-2005, 06:40 PM
uuuum

didnt say foreman

i don't mean just you, but marciano lovers in general on this forum.

leff
12-08-2005, 06:51 PM
how about ali lovers than?

Dempsey 1919
12-08-2005, 07:21 PM
how about ali lovers than?

one could make a case for ali being the greatest. he beat the best competition, bar none. he was the fastest moving and fastest hitting hw. he could hit somewhat hard. he shocked the world twice against liston and foreman, and he cleaned out two decades of boxing. what did marciano do? he cleaned out arguably the weakest modern era of boxing where the top contenders were all blown up, and everyone weighed 180 to 189 or so. he defended the title six times and then retired. so who is more the greatest, ali or marciano?

Brockton Lip
12-08-2005, 07:58 PM
We can make a case for Marciano being the best. Undefeated, KTFO Joe Louis (old or not), highest win-knockout ratio, broke bones, almost killed people, beat Ali in the computer fight (scripted is under debate), and the most determined fighter.

:bottle:

Kid Achilles
12-08-2005, 11:26 PM
Firpo not a strong puncher? Again you're the first person I've ever encountered to try and claim that. He was the Foreman of his times, who beat better boxers on brute power alone. You pull facts out of your ass, but you don't really know what you're talking about. As for Tunney, he hit about as hard as your hero Ali, not extremely hard for a heavyweight but he would put a guy on his ass if his right hand landed flush, or at least stagger him.

You dig yourself deeper with every post you make. Half truths and bull**** is all you can throw at me. That's your debating style. Make some **** up and then make more **** up to try and smother your opponent's arguments. It's tiresome to deal with, so I'm done with this thread.

Dempsey 1919
12-08-2005, 11:26 PM
We can make a case for Marciano being the best. Undefeated, KTFO Joe Louis (old or not), highest win-knockout ratio, broke bones, almost killed people, beat Ali in the computer fight (scripted is under debate), and the most determined fighter.

:bottle:

undefeated, undefeated, undefeated. that's all you marciano fans ever talk about. well, where you wan't to ignore it or not, ali had the potential to be unbeaten too, and he wouldn't be fighting the bums that marciano did. he was stripped of his prime years, where he would have stayed in shape and wouldnot have lost to frazier or norton, or spinks, then he would have retired. UNDEFEATED!

Brockton Lip
12-09-2005, 01:05 AM
lol. I'm not against Ali at all. Him and Marciano are my favorite boxers, I'm just saying Marciano is considered the best by many people. As for my opinion; thats tough to decide. Louis, Ali, or Marciano. Robinson somewhere in there if you want to count any weight class.

RockyMarcianofan00
12-09-2005, 02:07 AM
undefeated, undefeated, undefeated. that's all you marciano fans ever talk about. well, where you wan't to ignore it or not, ali had the potential to be unbeaten too, and he wouldn't be fighting the bums that marciano did. he was stripped of his prime years, where he would have stayed in shape and wouldnot have lost to frazier or norton, or spinks, then he would have retired. UNDEFEATED!

thee greatest thee greatest thee greatest,he danced and stung, thats all u ali fans ever talk about if he was so great why did he have to convince ppl that he was the greatest? Marciano was humble and never disrespected anyone

Marciano was the best guy in and out of the ring
sure his hand speed wasn't the greatest and he didn't have good boxing skills but i'm not talking about the best boxers we're talking about best heavywieghts and I know marciano was better then foreman but foreman is my 2nd favorite fighter

so even if you reply saying this is the worst post u ever read Marciano was still a more humble fighter and i can see him beating a prime ali

so i'll repost tomorrow arguing what ur response is of course :boxing:
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RockyMarcianofan00
12-09-2005, 02:12 AM
like archie moore said "marciano's style was wam bam i don't give a damn" and everybody always talks about how all he fought was bums but Jersey Joe Walcott in there first fight was in his prime that was his best fight.

"He could hurt you, sure, but it was the quantity of his punches. He just had more stamina than anyone else in those days. He was like a bull with gloves." -archie moore said that and archie moore was a hard hitter (most ko's)
and i'd bet anything that a prime ali didn't have anywhere as much stamina and no where near the heart marciano had
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Imira
12-09-2005, 11:51 AM
My list changed. It won't be changing again for a while...

...at least, until I build my collection up some more. :)

1. Joe Louis - I think my sig says it all. LOL! But seriously, 25 title defenses over 11 1/2 years as champion. No mortal man ever took his title from him in the ring. A terrifying fighter in his day, some opponents were beaten as soon as they began walking to the ring. Definitely the best finisher in history, as no opponent ever got hurt and escaped the round. Fighters who brought the fight to him were brutally destroyed, while the runners who tried to outbox him found that it was nearly impossible to run from him for 15 full rounds, survive and get the decision all at the same time. The Brown Bomber also has a football team named after him.

2. Muhammad Ali - More than a fighter, he was an entertainer as well. One of only two heavyweights that are well-known for their quotes, as well as their ring ability. The first 3 time heavyweight champion, knocking this man out was found to be next to impossible. Generally agreed to possess: a set of the fastest hands, one of the hardest chins and the biggest mouth in heavyweight history.

3. Joe Frazier - Winner of one of the biggest fights in history. Exciting to watch, even his decisions. Had a heart the size of Asia and a chin of iron and fought one way: in the trenches. Smokin' Joe was said to be the first heavyweight champion since Rocky Marciano to get stronger as the fight progressed.

4. Lennox Lewis - The "Pugilist Specialist". Fought his way up to, and consistently fought at, the elite level of fighters. Always thinking one step ahead of his opponents, fighting him was like playing a game of chess where checkmate is a sledgehammer to your head. Being a larger fighter, Lewis, wisely, fought a smart battle behind his poleaxe jab in order to preserve his stamina. The only real legendary fighter since Larry Holmes.

5. Rocky Marciano - UNDEFEATED. Like it or not, no other heavyweight champion ever achieved the level of consitency that the Rock did. Especially since he did everything "ass backwards". Watching him slug his opponents into submission gives me goosebumps. His punching power, rock-like chin and never say die attitude always made the difference for him when his boxing skill failed.

6. George Foreman - Unbridled RAGE. Foreman is agreed to be the strongest puncher in boxing history. Street punk turned Olympic gold medalist turned 2 time heavyweight champion, Foreman was a picture of raw power tempered with youthful doubt. Came back 21 years after his prime and regained his title with a one punch KO to become the oldest fighter to ever become the champion.

7. Jack Johnson - The Galveston Giant battered and humiliated Tommy Burns to become the first Negro to hold the real world heavyweight title. Aside from the racism and bigotry he faced outside the ring, in the ring, he was nearly unstoppable. He muscled his opponents around the ring, swatted their punches aside and made a mismatch out of nearly every one of his fights. After losing the title, he continued fighting until he was nearly 60 years old.

8. Jack Dempsey - I can't get enough watching Dempsey. His bob and weave defense as he crawled his way in was certainly ahead of its time. He was deceptively fast and his hand speed is the stuff of legend. Against Jess Willard, he proved that his punch could crack just about any jaw. Against Luis Firpo, he proved that his recuperative ability backed him up when his chin let him down. Against Gibbons, he showed that he could win a decision over a "slick boxer" whose plan is to go the distance.

9. Larry Holmes - Spent most of his career frustrated at the fact that he was in Ali's shadow. However, looking at his body of work, one would wonder how that could happen. 20 successful title defenses, 7 year title reign. His is an example of what is expected of a champion. Domination. His ability in the ring is very nearly flawless. Shotgun-like jab, blistering combinations and a damaging right hook. He was like Ali with more power.

10. Still working on it...

Dempsey 1919
12-09-2005, 01:48 PM
thee greatest thee greatest thee greatest,he danced and stung, thats all u ali fans ever talk about if he was so great why did he have to convince ppl that he was the greatest? Marciano was humble and never disrespected anyone

Marciano was the best guy in and out of the ring
sure his hand speed wasn't the greatest and he didn't have good boxing skills but i'm not talking about the best boxers we're talking about best heavywieghts and I know marciano was better then foreman but foreman is my 2nd favorite fighter

so even if you reply saying this is the worst post u ever read Marciano was still a more humble fighter and i can see him beating a prime ali

so i'll repost tomorrow arguing what ur response is of course :boxing:

ok, now what does being huumble have to do with being a better boxer? ali probably had more drive than anyone, including marciano. do you know why? well, most great fighters aspire and strive to be champions and great fighters. but this guy wanted to be the best fighter ever. his goal wasn't to be hw champion, or a great hw champion, or a top 10 hw all-time, or even a top 10 boxer period of all-time, this guy wanted to be the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be! that was his only drive. now if a fighter wants to be a great fighter, he would have to really work at it, and have drive like no other. but if a fighter wants to be the best ever, man he is going to have to do alot more than that! and that's what he did. many people believed that ali was a natural talent and gifted and all that. well, and most of ya'll think that i'm the biggest ali nuthugger on this forum, but i will say that he probably was 10 times as uncoordinated as marciano when he first started boxing when he was 12! when he would spar with the other boys in louiville, they kicked his ass, cause he couldn't fight that well. but he had one quality that the other boys didn't have. he was a hard worker. he spent about 5 hours in the gym even when he still was in grade school. he worked at it, and he became better. and soon, he started to beat everyone. he kept getting better and better through hard work. he worked hard on the speed bag to increase his hand speed. he sparred with the smaller kids to increase his foot speed and reflexes. by the time he was 18 he had already won 4 amateur awards in two weight classes, hw ans lhw. one of them were statewide, two of them national and one international (olympics) all because of hard work, not because of natural talent. and he worked hard to become the greatest, because that's what he wanted to become, no less than that. that is just out of this world! frazier beat him, cause ali was suffering from a layoff, and wasn'nt ready yet. norton beat him cause he trained for years just to fight him, and ali lost some of his speed during the layoff, and spinks beat him cause he didn't take him seriously. ali destroyed fighters that would destroy marciano, so how does marciano stand a chance? marciano wouldn't be able to hit him, and if by some luck rocky did catch him, ali's chin wouldn't be bothered, cause ali has one of the top 3 or 4 chins in history! so marciano either couldn't hit him, or hurt him, take your pick. ali's midsection is the strongest in history, by far, if he took foreman's frazier's and chuvalo's punishment. so your argument with marciano is pretty weak compared to mine, ali is lightyears ahead of marciano. in fact foreman is lightyears ahead, so is frazier, holmes, liston, tyson, louis, lewis, holyfield, vit. klitchko, johnson. i'll even pick dempsey to beat marciano, also patterson for that matter.

RockyMarcianofan00
12-09-2005, 02:20 PM
well he's not the greatest fighter and i beleve that the reason everyone thinks he's #1 instead of like #6 or so is because he convinced ppl he was the greatest, he wasn't thee greatest he didn't have the strenght or heart of marciano, he didn't have larry holmes jab because holmes' jab was actually ali's jab but better, the only thing he did have was a good midsection and footwork and that sounds more defensive then offensive
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Dempsey 1919
12-09-2005, 02:38 PM
well he's not the greatest fighter and i beleve that the reason everyone thinks he's #1 instead of like #6 or so is because he convinced ppl he was the greatest, he wasn't thee greatest he didn't have the strenght or heart of marciano, he didn't have larry holmes jab because holmes' jab was actually ali's jab but better, the only thing he did have was a good midsection and footwork and that sounds more defensive then offensive

i guess your backed in the corner so much that now you're spewing lies! holmes had a better jab than ali? just because a 38 year old ali with parkinson's and that was strung out on drugs fought a prime holmes and got crushed, doesn't mean holmes is better."the reason everyone thinks he's #1 instead of like #6 or so is because he convinced ppl he was the greatest". i think you just put your foot in your mouth right there. do you know how he convinced everyone that he's the greatest? because he demonstrated it in the ring. there is an undorstood norm that in sports, athletes evolve over time, but if a prime ali boxed today, he would crush anyone here. if marciano fought today he would be crushed by anyone here! in fact, he would be crushed in any era after the early 50s. ali did things that were thought of as impossible. he beat liston, he beat foreman, he leaned back on punches and were successful, he layed on the ropes and was sucessful. given the circumstances he was in at the time, he had the best legacy, cause louis wasn't stripped of the title and forced into 4 years of inactivity. "ali had a good midsection". name one person with a better one. you can't! ali took foreman's best shots, and foreman punched harder than anyone, including your idol marciano, so he didn't have a good midsection, he ha the best ever! i said it before but ali crushed people that would obliterate marciano, such as liston, foreman, williams, chuvalo, folley, even terrel. he beat people that would crush him like frazier, shavers, norton, and lyle. so how does marciano stand a chance?

RockyMarcianofan00
12-09-2005, 03:20 PM
i'm not spewing lies
Holmes had a better jab then ali and i've never heard that disputed
i mean that doesn't make holmes better then ali cause i will give u one thing that the fight between holmes and ali should have never happened, and no cause a common saying lately has been saying "if u dug up marciano's bones and put gloves on him he'd reunite the belts", so don't say he'd get crushed cause thats not even true,of course if u dug up alot of old champs they'd reunite the belts cause good heavyweights to day are in short supply, also its not like i'm just sticking with marciano and saying he's the best i can admit that he had flaws too but it seems u can't all u want to do is talk about haow bad he was, he had a good chin and good body and he'd beat ali
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Dempsey 1919
12-09-2005, 03:47 PM
i'm not spewing lies
Holmes had a better jab then ali and i've never heard that disputed
i mean that doesn't make holmes better then ali cause i will give u one thing that the fight between holmes and ali should have never happened, and no cause a common saying lately has been saying "if u dug up marciano's bones and put gloves on him he'd reunite the belts", so don't say he'd get crushed cause thats not even true,of course if u dug up alot of old champs they'd reunite the belts cause good heavyweights to day are in short supply, also its not like i'm just sticking with marciano and saying he's the best i can admit that he had flaws too but it seems u can't all u want to do is talk about haow bad he was, he had a good chin and good body and he'd beat ali

if he had a good chin then how come he was knocked down by middleweights? he'd beat ali? you keep saying that, but you have not supported it yet. yet i have bent over backwards to support it, and you haven't. the computer fight was a phony and everyone knows it. ali was throwing bodyshots at rocky, when he barely did that in a fight. ali was a headhunter, especially with guys as short as marciano. only people like cleveland williams and ernie terrel who were 6-6 ali would hit the body, so that was a fake. the whole thing was a fake. like i said before ali is not the only one who could beat him. i named about ten or twelve fighters who would crush him. before you worry about marciano beating ali, worry about him beating, liston, holmes, foreman, frazier, tyson, johnson, louis, holyfield, lewis, dempsey, ect, ect, ect.

Dempsey 1919
12-09-2005, 03:51 PM
i'm not spewing lies
Holmes had a better jab then ali and i've never heard that disputed

what makes holmes' jab better? cause it was stronger? that doesn't mean it was better. in that case you could say liston's jab was better cause it was stronger, foreman too, also lewis, tyson, shavers, lyle, frazier, lewis, klitchko etc. but ali's was faster, more accurate, and stung more cause of the way he threw it and it cut you up faster. no way is a young 25year old ali's jab matched, better yet even at 28, 29, 30, 31, or 32.

RockyMarcianofan00
12-09-2005, 03:52 PM
ok i've supported the fact that ali would lose to marciano in about 9 different threads against you i'm not bringin it all up again the stuff again so i'm done with that. and he only got knocked down once maybe twice and i believe it was against Jersey Joe Walcott and Archie Moore, and both were very hard hitters who he got up and beat, archie moore had over 100 knockouts so how u can say that he's not a respectable person to knocked down by, what middle weights knocked him down?
now who's spewin lies
________
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Dempsey 1919
12-09-2005, 03:57 PM
ok i've supported the fact that ali would lose to marciano in about 9 different threads against you i'm not bringin it all up again the stuff again so i'm done with that. and he only got knocked down once maybe twice and i believe it was against Jersey Joe Walcott and Archie Moore, and both were very hard hitters who he got up and beat, archie moore had over 100 knockouts so how u can say that he's not a respectable person to knocked down by, what middle weights knocked him down?
now who's spewin lies

give me a break, moore was a natural middleweight and he floored him. and moore didn't hit hard as a hw so it is a disgrace for a hw to be floored by moore a natural middleweight.

RockyMarcianofan00
12-09-2005, 03:58 PM
not to get off the topic of u arguing me and everything but a fight give alot of credit to both fighters in was wepner against ali
i mean i understand that wepner knocked ali down cause ali was off balance but man that guy just took a beating

wasn't ali out of shape in that fight though?
________
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RockyMarcianofan00
12-09-2005, 03:59 PM
you've got to be kidding me Moore was a great hitter and its no disgrace
100+ ko's and ur gunna say he was bad
________
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Dempsey 1919
12-09-2005, 04:03 PM
you've got to be kidding me Moore was a great hitter and its no disgrace
100+ ko's and ur gunna say he was bad

moore was a great middleweight and lightheavy. but he just wasn't a good hw. a young, inexperienced and weak clay beat him to a pulp. a young patterson annihilated him. but moore still gave marciano trouble, so what does that say about marciano?

Dempsey 1919
12-09-2005, 04:04 PM
not to get off the topic of u arguing me and everything but a fight give alot of credit to both fighters in was wepner against ali
i mean i understand that wepner knocked ali down cause ali was off balance but man that guy just took a beating

wasn't ali out of shape in that fight though?

yeah, ali was out of spape a little. he weighed 221 1/2, and in his previous fight, the foreman fight, he was an in-shape 216 1/2.

RockyMarcianofan00
12-09-2005, 04:05 PM
a young patterson would have been when moore was older so that would've been a mismatch
________
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Dempsey 1919
12-09-2005, 04:08 PM
a young patterson would have been when moore was older so that would've been a mismatch

older? let me see, moore was 42 when he fought rocky, and 43 when he fought patterson. that's not much older, and look at the contrast. he gave a good account of himself against rocky, but petterson crushed him in their fight, so age has nothing to do with it.

Da Iceman
12-09-2005, 05:26 PM
older? let me see, moore was 42 when he fought rocky, and 43 when he fought patterson. that's not much older, and look at the contrast. he gave a good account of himself against rocky, but petterson crushed him in their fight, so age has nothing to do with it.
styles make fights, moore only won maybe 2 or 3 rounds out of 9 with rocky how is that giving him trouble had he not ko'd him rocky wouldve easily got the decision

kid dynamite
12-09-2005, 08:20 PM
good list for the modern day thinker...ring magazine in '62 had dempsey listed as number 1..i think it is the generation gap that we tend to stick to...as an old timer from the old school i would say ali, dempsey, louis, johnson, jeffries, tunney, marciano, charles, foreman, holmes..

buddereye
12-09-2005, 09:16 PM
Tyson does not deserve to be in top 10...Yes he does, He was the youngest heavyweight ever.The only person would give a young mike tyson problems (80s Tyson) would be Ali.

Dempsey 1919
12-10-2005, 12:58 AM
Yes he does, He was the youngest heavyweight ever.The only person would give a young mike tyson problems (80s Tyson) would be Ali.

not just ali, but liston, holmes, foreman, and frazier. he might struggle a little with holyfield too!

Gemini531
12-11-2005, 03:03 PM
not just ali, but liston, holmes, foreman, and frazier. he might struggle a little with holyfield too!
SORRY BRO YOUR WRONG ALI AND HOLMES BUT NEVER FOREMAN HE WAS TO SLOW AND IF ALI KO'D HIM........... AND FRAZIER PLEASE TYSON IS AN UPGRADE BY 200% SONNY LISTON WOULD BE INTERESTINGBUT TYSON WASTOO FEROCIOUS IN HIS PRIME.


ALI AND HOLMES ONLY.
:boxing: :boxing: :boxing: :boxing:

Southpaw Stinger
12-11-2005, 05:35 PM
Ali is the greatest of all time. You gotta love the guys attitude and brilliant fighting style.

BSD
12-12-2005, 10:22 AM
not just ali, but liston, holmes, foreman, and frazier. he might struggle a little with holyfield too!



Tyson knocked out Holmes.

Southpaw Stinger
12-12-2005, 10:59 AM
My top 10

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Foreman
4. Marciano
5. Dempsey
6. Frazier
7. Tyson
8. Lewis
9. Liston
10. Holmes

leff
12-12-2005, 11:51 AM
My top 10

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Foreman
4. Marciano
5. Dempsey
6. Frazier
7. Tyson
8. Lewis
9. Liston
10. Holmes


very good list but i would put in holyfield instead off tyson, not as high though

Dempsey 1919
12-12-2005, 02:37 PM
SORRY BRO YOUR WRONG ALI AND HOLMES BUT NEVER FOREMAN HE WAS TO SLOW AND IF ALI KO'D HIM........... AND FRAZIER PLEASE TYSON IS AN UPGRADE BY 200% SONNY LISTON WOULD BE INTERESTINGBUT TYSON WASTOO FEROCIOUS IN HIS PRIME.


ALI AND HOLMES ONLY.
:boxing: :boxing: :boxing: :boxing:

foreman would destroy tyson by the third round. tyson is just like frazier and look what happened to frazier. it's a bad style matchup. tyson ducked foreman cause he knew he would get crushed! liston is just like foreman, so just about the same thing would happen.

Dempsey 1919
12-12-2005, 02:39 PM
Tyson knocked out Holmes.

holmes was 37 years old, and not as fast, and didn't get enough training time. a prime holmes would have confused, frustrated, then ko'd tyson in 10 or 12 rounds.

BSD
12-12-2005, 03:31 PM
holmes was 37 years old, and not as fast, and didn't get enough training time. a prime holmes would have confused, frustrated, then ko'd tyson in 10 or 12 rounds.


Holmes didn't have the power to KO Tyson. In their fight, Holmes landed plenty of clean punches. But Tyson kept moving in landing his hooks. Holmes fell like a tree.

Dempsey 1919
12-12-2005, 03:39 PM
Holmes didn't have the power to KO Tyson. In their fight, Holmes landed plenty of clean punches. But Tyson kept moving in landing his hooks. Holmes fell like a tree.

so he didn't have the power to ko tyson, if holyfield could?!

BSD
12-12-2005, 05:20 PM
so he didn't have the power to ko tyson, if holyfield could?!


A washed up, unmotivated, inconsistent fighter that would resort to ear biting is not the fighter that Holmes met in 1988. But whether you think Tyson was washed up when he fought Holyfield or not, Holyfield did have a better style and strategy for beating him.

Imira
12-12-2005, 05:21 PM
Why is Tyson being given full credit for knocking out a far past his prime Larry Holmes? :thinking:

I guess then McBride gets his credit for making the ferocious Mike Tyson quit on his stool...

Dempsey 1919
12-12-2005, 05:23 PM
A washed up, unmotivated, inconsistent fighter that would resort to ear biting is not the fighter that Holmes met in 1988. But whether you think Tyson was washed up when he fought Holyfield or not, Holyfield did have a better style and strategy for beating him.

holyfield had a better style? if holmes had ali's style then how would there be a better style than that? holmes would not be hit by tyson that much in his prime, plus holmes had a strong chin. holmes would carry it to the later rounds and ko tyson, after hitting his face countless times.

BSD
12-12-2005, 05:40 PM
holyfield had a better style? if holmes had ali's style then how would there be a better style than that? holmes would not be hit by tyson that much in his prime, plus holmes had a strong chin. holmes would carry it to the later rounds and ko tyson, after hitting his face countless times.


There's no invincible style. In fact, Ali with his stick and move style had the most trouble with a bobbing and hooking Frazier. Tyson could throw more powerful hooks with either hand. Holmes didn't really stand a chance.

Dempsey 1919
12-12-2005, 06:01 PM
There's no invincible style. In fact, Ali with his stick and move style had the most trouble with a bobbing and hooking Frazier. Tyson could throw more powerful hooks with either hand. Holmes didn't really stand a chance.

yeah, but douglass, holyfield, lewis, williams, and bride does huh? lol!

Skydog
12-12-2005, 07:24 PM
Tyson's style was different than Frazier's. I've said this a million times, I guess I'll say it more. It wasn't Frazier's bob and weave that troubled Ali, it was his relentless agression and attack. Tyson didn't come straight at people like Frazier did. And even if the bob and weave troubled Ali, he did put Joe in the hospital for a few months. If Ali did that damage to Tyson, Tyson wouldn't have the heart to finish the fight. Have you seen how bad Ali batters Joe in the 9th round of FOTC? It's surprising Joe came out after that round (yet it's surprising Ali came out from the 11th round).

So no, it doesn't come close. Once Tyson realized that Ali wasn't terrified of him, and started to trade blows with Tyson, Tyson would crumble. And anyway, Ali would have ****ed with Tyson's head before the fight, so Tyson wouldn't be able to think straight anyway.

Southpaw Stinger
12-12-2005, 08:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tyson's style was different than Frazier's. I've said this a million times, I guess I'll say it more. It wasn't Frazier's bob and weave that troubled Ali, it was his relentless agression and attack. Tyson didn't come straight at people like Frazier did. And even if the bob and weave troubled Ali, he did put Joe in the hospital for a few months. If Ali did that damage to Tyson, Tyson wouldn't have the heart to finish the fight. Have you seen how bad Ali batters Joe in the 9th round of FOTC? It's surprising Joe came out after that round (yet it's surprising Ali came out from the 11th round).

So no, it doesn't come close. Once Tyson realized that Ali wasn't terrified of him, and started to trade blows with Tyson, Tyson would crumble. And anyway, Ali would have ****ed with Tyson's head before the fight, so Tyson wouldn't be able to think straight anyway.

I completely agree with you. :beerchug:

Dempsey 1919
12-12-2005, 10:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I completely agree with you. :beerchug:

yeah, me too.

LondonRingRules
12-13-2005, 06:45 AM
Why is Tyson being given full credit for knocking out a far past his prime Larry Holmes? :thinking:

I guess then McBride gets his credit for making the ferocious Mike Tyson quit on his stool...
** Boys, when are we gonna play some good ol' country fastball around. These softball lobs are gonna ruin my big league timing!

Holmes took 3 yrs off after Tyson and cameback at 42 to contend at the highest levels, only losing to 3 beltholders in title fights, retiring at age 53 with a record of 24-3 over 11 yrs. Funny how Holmes was good enough to compete for titles in his mid 40s without being KOed, yet he couldn't handle the pressure of young Tyson. Nobody expects to see Tyson in the ring at age 53 or even 43. The only fights Holmes ever lost in his entire career was 6 title fights and 4 of those losses were against HOFers and only one of those HOFers KOed Holmes.

Tyson has been losing non title fights against non HOFers the past few years and ain't even hit his 40s yet. He's 14-6 over the past 15 yrs since he first signed with King and his stooge trainers after going 36-0 with his old team. It's apples, pineapples, and oranges boys, not rocket science. Tyson under his old management and old team could probably KO any fighter who ever lived if not take a lopsided decision from him.

I don't care if you believe it or not. Facts are that no fighter, no heavy in history was more dominant to age 22 than Tyson. If he didn't win by early KO which was almost always, it was by lopsided decision. Moreover, he gave up height and reach in every fight he was in.

Imira
12-13-2005, 10:55 AM
You have a solid argument. But the fact also remains that Holmes was unable to defeat any fighter of note after his 3 year layoff. As long as he fought outside of top-ten competition, he met with success.

Not taking away from Tyson, but his KO of past prime Holmes isn't exactly the biggest victory of his career.

LondonRingRules
12-13-2005, 01:48 PM
You have a solid argument. But the fact also remains that Holmes was unable to defeat any fighter of note after his 3 year layoff. As long as he fought outside of top-ten competition, he met with success.

Not taking away from Tyson, but his KO of past prime Holmes isn't exactly the biggest victory of his career.
Holmes gave Mercer a boxing lesson and was the first to defeat him. That gave him his shot against Holy. Mercer was a top 10 contender and remained there for some time. Holmes also lost a close decision to McCall, the same McCall that knocked Lewis into LaLaLand. Little Mike KOed big Larry so bad he was crying for help to get up because he was paralyzed.

Brassangel
12-16-2005, 01:16 PM
Larry Holmes had defeated (a much aged) Muhammad Ali in 1980, and then took a beating to Tyson in the late 80's. He wasn't horrendously old as far as boxers go. He even said, before his fight with Tyson, "...this punk is a son of a b****; he hasn't faced any competition, and I'm gonna school him...". Holmes even came out and played it like Ali; taunting Tyson, dancing around the ring, trying to use his reach and his jab. Well, we all know how it finished. Afterwards, Holmes was quoted as saying, "..Mike Tyson is a great champion..". During an interview in the 80's with Muhammad Ali, the Greatest said, "..he's [Tyson] a fighter that I don't think I could have handled..". There's a lot of respect shown for this guy, whose career later became a joke. His antics aside, Mike Tyson deserves a spot on anyone's top ten list, if two of the greatest had such respect for him.

I would also like to second the fact that pre-King he was 36-0, post King he was 14-6. Even so, part of that is Mike's fault..

1. Muhammad Ali (give him 3 fights against anyone and he'll win at least 2)
2. Joe Louis (c'mon; 11+ years as champ)
3. George Foreman (84 fights; possibly the hardest hitter ever)
4. Sonny Liston (often underrated due to the Ali fights)
5. Rocky Marciano (49-0 says enough)
6. Larry Holmes (incredible longevity)
7. Joe Frazier (a true warrior, through and through)
8. Mike Tyson (the most prolific/explosive puncher in history)
9. Lennox Lewis (should be in a weight class of his own; defeated Holyfield and Tyson when they were WELL beyond their years)
10. Jim Jefferies (can't forget the classics)

***NOTE***I didn't put Jack Dempsey on here because after doing a profile research paper on him, I found some disturbing information which proved that, on multiple occassions, he coated his hand wraps in plaster to get and edge against heavier opponents.

BSD
12-19-2005, 10:39 AM
Larry Holmes had defeated (a much aged) Muhammad Ali in 1980, and then took a beating to Tyson in the late 80's. He wasn't horrendously old as far as boxers go. He even said, before his fight with Tyson, "...this punk is a son of a b****; he hasn't faced any competition, and I'm gonna school him...". Holmes even came out and played it like Ali; taunting Tyson, dancing around the ring, trying to use his reach and his jab. Well, we all know how it finished. Afterwards, Holmes was quoted as saying, "..Mike Tyson is a great champion..". During an interview in the 80's with Muhammad Ali, the Greatest said, "..he's [Tyson] a fighter that I don't think I could have handled..". There's a lot of respect shown for this guy, whose career later became a joke. His antics aside, Mike Tyson deserves a spot on anyone's top ten list, if two of the greatest had such respect for him.

I would also like to second the fact that pre-King he was 36-0, post King he was 14-6. Even so, part of that is Mike's fault..

1. Muhammad Ali (give him 3 fights against anyone and he'll win at least 2)
2. Joe Louis (c'mon; 11+ years as champ)
3. George Foreman (84 fights; possibly the hardest hitter ever)
4. Sonny Liston (often underrated due to the Ali fights)
5. Rocky Marciano (49-0 says enough)
6. Larry Holmes (incredible longevity)
7. Joe Frazier (a true warrior, through and through)
8. Mike Tyson (the most prolific/explosive puncher in history)
9. Lennox Lewis (should be in a weight class of his own; defeated Holyfield and Tyson when they were WELL beyond their years)
10. Jim Jefferies (can't forget the classics)

***NOTE***I didn't put Jack Dempsey on here because after doing a profile research paper on him, I found some disturbing information which proved that, on multiple occassions, he coated his hand wraps in plaster to get and edge against heavier opponents.


Lewis would not be on my list. He's a ***** for retiring when everyone wanted to see him in a rematch with Vitali. A guy that's too scared to step in the ring wouldn't be in my top 20.

leff
12-19-2005, 01:52 PM
Larry Holmes had defeated (a much aged) Muhammad Ali in 1980, and then took a beating to Tyson in the late 80's. He wasn't horrendously old as far as boxers go. He even said, before his fight with Tyson, "...this punk is a son of a b****; he hasn't faced any competition, and I'm gonna school him...". Holmes even came out and played it like Ali; taunting Tyson, dancing around the ring, trying to use his reach and his jab. Well, we all know how it finished. Afterwards, Holmes was quoted as saying, "..Mike Tyson is a great champion..". During an interview in the 80's with Muhammad Ali, the Greatest said, "..he's [Tyson] a fighter that I don't think I could have handled..". There's a lot of respect shown for this guy, whose career later became a joke. His antics aside, Mike Tyson deserves a spot on anyone's top ten list, if two of the greatest had such respect for him.

I would also like to second the fact that pre-King he was 36-0, post King he was 14-6. Even so, part of that is Mike's fault..

1. Muhammad Ali (give him 3 fights against anyone and he'll win at least 2)
2. Joe Louis (c'mon; 11+ years as champ)
3. George Foreman (84 fights; possibly the hardest hitter ever)
4. Sonny Liston (often underrated due to the Ali fights)
5. Rocky Marciano (49-0 says enough)
6. Larry Holmes (incredible longevity)
7. Joe Frazier (a true warrior, through and through)
8. Mike Tyson (the most prolific/explosive puncher in history)
9. Lennox Lewis (should be in a weight class of his own; defeated Holyfield and Tyson when they were WELL beyond their years)
10. Jim Jefferies (can't forget the classics)

***NOTE***I didn't put Jack Dempsey on here because after doing a profile research paper on him, I found some disturbing information which proved that, on multiple occassions, he coated his hand wraps in plaster to get and edge against heavier opponents.



hmmmm

i would rank lewis and holy over tyson, put tunnet in instead off jeffries, and where is dempsey?

apart from that the list is decent

Dempsey 1919
12-19-2005, 02:01 PM
i'll change some of that.

1) Muhammad Ali
2) Sonny Liston
3) Larry Holmes
4) George Foreman
5) Joe Frazier
6) Mike Tyson
7) Jack Johnson
8) Joe Louis
9) Evander Holyfield
10) Lennox Lewis

i'll change some of that again!

1) Muhammad Ali
2) Sonny Liston
3) Larry Holmes
4) George Foreman
5) Joe Frazier
6) Mike Tyson
7) Joe Louis
8) Jack Johnson
9) Evander Holyfield
10) Lennox Lewis

leff
12-19-2005, 06:37 PM
i'll change some of that again!

1) Muhammad Ali
2) Sonny Liston
3) Larry Holmes
4) George Foreman
5) Joe Frazier
6) Mike Tyson
7) Joe Louis
8) Jack Johnson
9) Evander Holyfield
10) Lennox Lewis

how bout dempsey and marciano?

Brassangel
12-19-2005, 09:16 PM
If you read that big part that said ***NOTE*** I explained why I didn't put Dempsey. Don't just read the list; read the post.

Furthermore, I put Lennox Lewis on there because he was 6'5", over 240 pounds, and in shape; he would have been tough in any era. I didn't put him above Tyson because it took him more than 8 rounds to beat a 36-37 year old Tyson who didn't like boxing anymore. Holyfield got the belt because of Tyson's collapse. I will concede, however, that Holyfield was tough. He was an excellent counterpuncher. I'm a little tired right now, so I apologize for the lack of detail in this argument. Usually I'm a big poster. :boxing:

Dempsey 1919
12-19-2005, 09:50 PM
how bout dempsey and marciano?

they're 11 and 12, respectively.

blockhead
12-19-2005, 11:39 PM
sonny liston no. 2. give me a break. he shouldnt even be on the list if rocky and dempsey arent. your amoron butt fly

Dempsey 1919
12-19-2005, 11:57 PM
sonny liston no. 2. give me a break. he shouldnt even be on the list if rocky and dempsey arent. your amoron butt fly

wow, your logic is astounding lol! who did marciano and dempsey beat that liston couldn't beat?

Brassangel
12-20-2005, 01:42 PM
Liston could beat any of the fighters that Rocky and Dempsey fought; and their bones would have broken without plaster wrapped hands. Here's an updated list after much deliberation and video observation.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis (mainly for 11+ years as champ)
3. Sonny Liston
4. Larry Holmes
5. George Foreman
6. Mike Tyson
7. Joe Frazier
8. Rocky Marciano
9. Jack Johnson (How could I forget about the guy who would wipe teeth off of his gloves?)
10. Lennox Lewis

My list will probably change like a flavor of the month, but I feel that this is more accurate than my last. :boxing:

Dempsey 1919
12-20-2005, 04:35 PM
Liston could beat any of the fighters that Rocky and Dempsey fought; and their bones would have broken without plaster wrapped hands. Here's an updated list after much deliberation and video observation.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis (mainly for 11+ years as champ)
3. Sonny Liston
4. Larry Holmes
5. George Foreman
6. Mike Tyson
7. Joe Frazier
8. Rocky Marciano
9. Jack Johnson (How could I forget about the guy who would wipe teeth off of his gloves?)
10. Lennox Lewis

My list will probably change like a flavor of the month, but I feel that this is more accurate than my last. :boxing:

well, i don't agree with some of it, but at least you're like the only one besides me to have liston high. good job!

leff
12-20-2005, 04:39 PM
okay here is mine

marciano louis ali (not able to seperate them and rate one over another).

4 dempsey
5 foreman
6liston
7 frazier
8 holmes
9 lewis
10holy

Brassangel
12-21-2005, 01:13 PM
Your disagreements are just a portion of why our disputes are so interesting. :D

My list remains the same today.

supaduck
12-24-2005, 04:22 PM
It bugs me how some guys rate Tyson so low. I think when rating who was the best we should rate what they were like in their prime. Tyson's prime was around 1988. He was unbeatable back then. His personal life took its toll, and by 1990 he was only around 60%. After his comeback he was about the same. If he had fought Holyfield in 1988 (and Holyfield was a heavyweight then) Tyson would have destroyed him.

The rest of his losses were when he was over the hill. Lewis? Williams? Mcbride? Gimme a break. Also Tyson was exciting and fun to watch.

Da Iceman
12-24-2005, 05:45 PM
tyson is a overatted ass, his prime was early 90's late 80's. his personal life took a toll, he was mentally unstable and thats his own fault as a fighter. tyson lost to the first bum that stood up and traded with him, and wasnt scared of him, thats why he keeps losing not cuz he's past his prime

Da Iceman
12-24-2005, 05:48 PM
okay here is mine

marciano louis ali (not able to seperate them and rate one over another).

4 dempsey
5 foreman
6liston
7 frazier
8 holmes
9 lewis
10holy
good list, atleast theres one person that isnt a tyson nuthugger besides me

Yogi
12-24-2005, 06:50 PM
It bugs me how some guys rate Tyson so low. I think when rating who was the best we should rate what they were like in their prime. Tyson's prime was around 1988. He was unbeatable back then. His personal life took its toll, and by 1990 he was only around 60%.

What's the difference between the 1988 Tyson that fought Spinks and the 1990 Tyson that fought Douglas?

Tyson always had a troubles in his personal life, just like every single fighter whose ever stepped into the ring...No fighter is ever 100%, and Tyson certainly wasn't when he stepped into the ring with Spinks, which many consider his "peak" performance;

-His well-publicized marriage to Givens was obviously in trouble at that time in point
-Jimmy Jacobs, whose was Tyson's closest confidant after Cus died, had died just a few months before the Spinks fight and it weighed heavily on Tyson
-Tyson was arguing in court with his other manager, Bill Cayton.
-There were rumblings that Tyson hadn't trained nearly as much as he normally did, which, if you watch the Spinks fight, Mike doesn't look as "cut" as he did in previous fights.

And there were a couple of other things, as well...but because Tyson quickly knocked out a blown up, past his prime Light Heavyweight with bad knees, that constitutes a "prime" Mike Tyson? Whereas the Tyson that fought Douglas isn't considered to be prime (when he actually had LESS outside distractions & rumoured to have not trained as much as normal), just because he lost a fight?

Listen, I've brought up Tyson's poor 1986 performances against the likes of Tillis & Ribalta before, but there are some who say that was a pre-prime version of Tyson. I've also brought up the Douglas fight, as well, and of course we all know that Tyson apologists say that was the post-prime version of him. So if you think he should be judged only "in his prime" what do we have to judge Tyson according to what you think his prime was...a year or two? If so, do you actually think that compares favourably to other great Heavyweights whose primes had lasted 5+ years?

You give me a break!

P.S. Here's a little trivia question for you...

Can you tell me of any other "past his prime" undefeated fighter in history, who at the age of 23 was very nearly unanimously considered to be the #1 p4p fighter in the sport at the time (going in to the Douglas fight 14 out of 15 thought Tyson was the p4p best in the sport, which is more first place votes than he recieved the previous year)?

Or was Tyson SO ****ING special that a completely different ranking criteria should be used when judging him as a fighter?

Dempsey 1919
12-24-2005, 06:51 PM
if tyson just trained, he would have destroyed douglass in under 4.

Yogi
12-24-2005, 06:58 PM
if tyson just trained, he would have destroyed douglass in under 4.

That's wishful thinking, Butterfly, and the film evidence of even an earlier Tyson shows that he, much more often than not, had his fair share of difficulty in dealing with what Douglas brought to the table (by fighters not as talented as Buster showed on that night...Tillis, Ribalta, Tucker, etc.).

Da Iceman
12-24-2005, 08:07 PM
tyson had great skills but he was weak in mind and spirit so he lost, he's not as great as people say he is or he would be champ right now

JMCbulls
12-24-2005, 09:56 PM
1. Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Rocky Marciano
4. George Foreman
5. Joe Frazier
6. Larry Holmes
7. Gene Tunney
8. Jack Dempsey
9. Jack Johnson
10. Lennox Lewis

Honorable Mentions- Tyson, Jim Jeffries,Evander Holyfield

Da Iceman
12-24-2005, 10:07 PM
very very good list(cuz its the same as mine)

Da Iceman
12-24-2005, 10:07 PM
You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

JMCbulls
12-24-2005, 10:11 PM
very very good list(cuz its the same as mine)


lol, didn even notice that, and thnx for trying with the karma (if u want u can try again later ;) )

Da Iceman
12-24-2005, 10:37 PM
i gotta wait 3 more hours

Da Iceman
12-24-2005, 10:37 PM
800 posts baby!

Gavilan1
12-25-2005, 03:00 AM
Tyson started having trouble with mediocre fighters, and wasn't an invincible fighter by any means.

His problem was he didn't know how to fight on the inside. If you take a look at his fight with Buster Mathis Jr., he exposed that. Mike was too straight up on the inside. His stance worked against him on the inside. He was easy to push back and he couldn't fight in clinches or when he was going backwards.

supaduck
12-25-2005, 01:50 PM
I'm not a Tyson nuthugger by any means, but to say he wasn't a great fighter is to just bull****. If his personal life hadn't been ****ed, he would have been much greater, and apparently he hadn't trained for the Douglas fight enough either.

Also, he was going into the Douglas fight at odds of 42/1, and it obviously got to his head. He said he stopped loving the sport after 1990, so obviously would have not trained as hard.

His prime was when he put on his best performance. His Spinks one was obviously considered to be it.

Gavilan1
12-25-2005, 03:15 PM
Sorry kid but in a sport where fighters are measured on accomplishments, Tyson had zilch. Knocking out a LHW in Spinks, and an ancient, money-hungry Larry Holmes just doesn't do it for me.

rge
12-25-2005, 05:46 PM
Sorry kid but in a sport where fighters are measured on accomplishments, Tyson had zilch. Knocking out a LHW in Spinks, and an ancient, money-hungry Larry Holmes just doesn't do it for me.

Hi Gavilan1, remember that one year after Tyson, Spinks knocked Cooney, and another year before it he beat Holmes so Spinks did well on heavyweight until Tyson destroyed him in half a round.
:)

supaduck
12-25-2005, 05:48 PM
Don't call me kid Gavilan1, you jackass.

Mike Tyson77
02-09-2006, 05:36 PM
1)Iron Mike Tyson(No one will ever understand that 3 years in jail w/o training is devastating, then he won back the belt)
2)Jack Johnson
3)Rocky Marciano
4)Jack Demsey
5)Ali
6)Joe Louis
7)Foreman
8)Frazier
9)Larry Holmes
10)Sonny Liston

hellfire508
02-09-2006, 07:59 PM
Excellent top 10 to the original poster. Here is mine:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. George Foreman
4. Rocky Marciano
5. Larry Holmes
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Joe Frazier
8. Sonny Liston
9. Jack Johnson
10. Evander Holyfield

Dempsey 1919
02-09-2006, 08:17 PM
1)Iron Mike Tyson(No one will ever understand that 3 years in jail w/o training is devastating, then he won back the belt)
2)Jack Johnson
3)Rocky Marciano
4)Jack Demsey
5)Ali
6)Joe Louis
7)Foreman
8)Frazier
9)Larry Holmes
10)Sonny Liston

ali did the same thing. only it was 3 1/2 yrs. and against foreman. tyson couldn't do that.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-09-2006, 08:25 PM
ali did the same thing. only it was 3 1/2 yrs. and against foreman. tyson couldn't do that.
well technically if you think about it, Tyson was in prison where he had to make sure he didn't get into any fights with ppl or he'd definitly get in more trouble, and you know ppl were looking for fights with him, also he probably couldn't train as adequatly, Ali technically could have kept training and even probably gone to a gym and sparred i mean you don't need a license to do that but whatever
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RockyMarcianofan00
02-09-2006, 08:39 PM
1)Rocky Marciano
2)george Foreman (70's)
3)Joe Louis
4)Jack Dempsey
5)Mike Tyson
6)Joe Frazier
7)Archie Moore (even though LHW)
8)George Foreman (90's)
9)Gene tunney
10)Larry Holmes
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The Noose
02-09-2006, 08:46 PM
1)Rocky Marciano
2)george Foreman (70's)
3)Joe Louis
4)Jack Dempsey
5)Mike Tyson
6)Joe Frazier
7)Archie Moore (even though LHW)
8)George Foreman (90's)
9)Gene tunney
10)Larry Holmes

Somthing is very very wrong here... cant quite put my finger on it...

RockyMarcianofan00
02-09-2006, 09:25 PM
Somthing is very very wrong here... cant quite put my finger on it...
well you can say it i'm not gunna get mad just cause you disagree
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Yogi
02-09-2006, 09:32 PM
well you can say it i'm not gunna get mad just cause you disagree

I hope you're as tough as the man in your av, because if you're actually looking for explained criticism in regards to your rankings...Whoa boy!

RockyMarcianofan00
02-09-2006, 09:45 PM
I hope you're as tough as the man in your av, because if you're actually looking for explained criticism in regards to your rankings...Whoa boy!

lol it siad My Top ten not thee top 10

cause i'd have it different if it were thee top 10

its all wording :p

if you want me to repost i will
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Heckler
02-10-2006, 01:43 AM
1) Muhammad Ali - Took out 3 greats, had amazing physical assets, IMO would beat any boxer 3/5 times at his best incl Joe Louis

2) Joe Louis - His record speaks for itself, more so then Marciano's if you analyse them properly. Technically brilliant.

3) Larry Holmes - Best of the 80's, also technically brilliant

4) Jack Dempsey - He achieved alot in that era of boxing, he could slug, he could box... and who can forget what he did to willard

5) George Foreman - In 74 only a handful of fighters could beat him

6) Rocky Marciano - Awesome Power and heart, but a quote comes to mind 'show me a fighter who's never been beaten, ill show you one who's never fought anybody'

7) Joe Frazier - Alot of heart, power, and good speed. He was better then given credit for... and in any other era would be given the credit he deserves.

8) Sonny Liston - He cleaned up an entire division, contrary to what some say he had good opponents. Devestating power and boxing ability

9) Mike Tyson - You cannot deny he was amazing in his prime

10) Lennox Lewis - Underrated, great technician, good record, Chin lets him down.

The listings are alright, but without a doubt MUHAMMAD ALI AND JOE LOUIS SHOULD BE IN THE TOP 2, in which order, up to you.

Heckler
02-10-2006, 01:46 AM
1)Rocky Marciano
2)george Foreman (70's)
3)Joe Louis
4)Jack Dempsey
5)Mike Tyson
6)Joe Frazier
7)Archie Moore (even though LHW)
8)George Foreman (90's)
9)Gene tunney
10)Larry Holmes

Dude, what are you smoking.

Heckler
02-10-2006, 01:48 AM
Just out of interest are those your top 10 favourite heavyweights, or who you think are the best. Im not mad either, everyones entitled to their opinions... but out of sheer curiosity... why isn't Ali in your top 10. A) you dont like him (which shouldn't matter) or B) you haven't read, watched, talked, listened enough?

Heckler
02-10-2006, 01:55 AM
#1 Marciano - Undefeated Heavyweight Champ - That record will go unmatched for a LONG LONG TIME. Think 100 pt game in basketball
#2 Lennox Lewis (faced all the greats of his time, only lost twice and avenged both)
#3 Ali - I think he was to much of a mouth. To much of a chicken **** to go fight in Nam but liked fighting in the ring. *****
#4 George Foreman - Great Champ with a wonderful personality
#5 Jack Dempsey
#6 Iron Mike - The count on Douglas was slow and he was never the same after Cus died
#7 Evander Holyfield - Evander if there is anyway you are reading this, please retire.
#8 Joe Fraz - He met his match with Foreman but Fraz was a great champ
#9 Joe Louis - Great Champ
#10 Klitchko - We will have to see on this one. Time will tell.


Why dont you leave the board and not come back, or maybe read and then you will find out even if ALI went to Nam he wouldn't be fighting if he wanted to.

Heckler
02-10-2006, 02:00 AM
Liston could beat any of the fighters that Rocky and Dempsey fought; and their bones would have broken without plaster wrapped hands. Here's an updated list after much deliberation and video observation.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis (mainly for 11+ years as champ)
3. Sonny Liston
4. Larry Holmes
5. George Foreman
6. Mike Tyson
7. Joe Frazier
8. Rocky Marciano
9. Jack Johnson (How could I forget about the guy who would wipe teeth off of his gloves?)
10. Lennox Lewis

My list will probably change like a flavor of the month, but I feel that this is more accurate than my last. :boxing:


I value your opinions alot, but its been found that it was impossible for dempsey to cheat against Willard

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/dempsey_gloves.html

Read that article and you will find that it was essentially impossible.

Dirt E Gomez
02-10-2006, 03:30 AM
My top 10 changes every so often and some changes are more radical. None of these are set in stone and all move up and down at one time or another. Most recently I compiled it along the lines of:

1. Joe Louis
2. George Foreman
3. Ali
4. Holmes
5. Marciano
6. Lewis
7. Frazier
8. Johnson
9. Dempsey
10. Holyfield

Many of the people from 6-10 move up and down much more often and have sometimes even been off the list (exception being Frazier).

Foreman on my list used to be 3 but recently edged off Ali at #2 and the more I look at it the more I am probably gonna' have Big George at #1 soon. ALi might move up to #2 if Louis is bumped down from George as well. I think Ali beats Foreman 1 time in 100 fights, and it just so happens that 1 fight happened to be the real deal. Even with that loss he still floored Frazier numerous times and dominated other fighters through 3 decades. When he truly revived his career and beat Moorer that solidified him as one of the greatest ever. I look at the longevity of one's career and Big George's has to be the best. For that reason it's the same idea why I'd never put Tyson in my top 10.

Heckler
02-10-2006, 04:39 AM
Ali would always beat Foreman, especially in his prime. Every fighter is bad against a certain style... Foreman was bad against fighters with handspeed, ability to absorb punishment, and who can fight on the backfoot... eg. Ali, Holmes. Like Ali Foreman wasn't invincible, and Ali exposed him and people have to learn to accept it.

Heckler
02-10-2006, 04:45 AM
well technically if you think about it, Tyson was in prison where he had to make sure he didn't get into any fights with ppl or he'd definitly get in more trouble, and you know ppl were looking for fights with him, also he probably couldn't train as adequatly, Ali technically could have kept training and even probably gone to a gym and sparred i mean you don't need a license to do that but whatever

Ali at that point was busy dealing with personal issues such as trying to make some money and dealing with legal matters. Training was the least of his worries.

Heckler
02-10-2006, 06:18 AM
Tyson's style was different than Frazier's. I've said this a million times, I guess I'll say it more. It wasn't Frazier's bob and weave that troubled Ali, it was his relentless agression and attack. Tyson didn't come straight at people like Frazier did. And even if the bob and weave troubled Ali, he did put Joe in the hospital for a few months. If Ali did that damage to Tyson, Tyson wouldn't have the heart to finish the fight. Have you seen how bad Ali batters Joe in the 9th round of FOTC? It's surprising Joe came out after that round (yet it's surprising Ali came out from the 11th round).

So no, it doesn't come close. Once Tyson realized that Ali wasn't terrified of him, and started to trade blows with Tyson, Tyson would crumble. And anyway, Ali would have ****ed with Tyson's head before the fight, so Tyson wouldn't be able to think straight anyway.


Exactly, you watch tysons earlier fighters. He was actually more of a mid-range fighter, unlike Frazier who loved getting on the inside. He would burst in from midrange and it was quite clear by sticking and moving and then throwing counter-punches, it was a right that Tyson was open to, a cross.. Ali's bread and butter punch. Im definate Ali would confuse him, frustrate him, and essentially decimate him... so is Kevin Rooney. Buster Douglas: Tyson would of had trouble with Buster any time in his career. It was the style and tactics that frustrated him, stick and move, and counter-punch. Tyson was exposed, no exscuses, no bull****. Would Tyson win n 85'? without a doubt, but he'd still really struggle against him... against Ali he wouldn't stand a chance.

Dempsey 1919
02-10-2006, 12:39 PM
i'll change some of that again!

1) Muhammad Ali
2) Sonny Liston
3) Larry Holmes
4) George Foreman
5) Joe Frazier
6) Mike Tyson
7) Joe Louis
8) Jack Johnson
9) Evander Holyfield
10) Lennox Lewis

yes, i'm changing it again! I hope this makes some of you happy! :p

1) Muhammad Ali
2) Sonny Liston
3) George Foreman
4) Joe Frazier
5) Larry Holmes
6) Mike Tyson
7) Joe Louis
8) Jack Johnson
9) Evander Holyfield
10) Lennox Lewis

i might change it again in the future when i study it more in depth and make a more educated decision. :boxing:

Oasis_Lad
02-10-2006, 12:43 PM
1 muhammad ali
2 joe louis
3 george foreman
4 joe frazier
5 rocky marciano
6 sonny liston
7 larry holmes
8 gene tunney
9 evander holyfield
10 floyd patterson

RockyMarcianofan00
02-10-2006, 05:16 PM
Just out of interest are those your top 10 favourite heavyweights, or who you think are the best. Im not mad either, everyones entitled to their opinions... but out of sheer curiosity... why isn't Ali in your top 10. A) you dont like him (which shouldn't matter) or B) you haven't read, watched, talked, listened enough?

eh Ali is on and off my top 10 i don't hate him but he's varies for me cause some things about him i like somethings i dont' like so its on and off, i'd probably have more respect for him had he fought in the war, i mean not fought in the literal sense but actually gone because they tend to give stars (in nam anyhow) easy desk jobs, so i mean he would probably hadn't of had to fight----but w.e

also its my top 10 not thee top 10
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Heckler
02-10-2006, 06:45 PM
eh Ali is on and off my top 10 i don't hate him but he's varies for me cause some things about him i like somethings i dont' like so its on and off, i'd probably have more respect for him had he fought in the war, i mean not fought in the literal sense but actually gone because they tend to give stars (in nam anyhow) easy desk jobs, so i mean he would probably hadn't of had to fight----but w.e

also its my top 10 not thee top 10

Yeah but most people would judge 'my top 10' on ability. Could i ask, why would Ali earn your respect by going to a pointless, unjust completely politically motivated a war? That achieved nothing but a huge loss of civillian life? Like he said 'no vietcong ever called me ******' Why would he fight for a country that didn't give him equality?. Think about these things before you come to the conclusion he was just another draft dodger. He had more to loose by not going to Vietnam, and i personally respect him alot for doing what he did.

Heckler
02-10-2006, 06:47 PM
The you know, GREATEST in the title of this thread also implies something about actual BOXING ABILITY

Dirt E Gomez
02-11-2006, 03:50 AM
Ali would always beat Foreman, especially in his prime. Every fighter is bad against a certain style... Foreman was bad against fighters with handspeed, ability to absorb punishment, and who can fight on the backfoot... eg. Ali, Holmes. Like Ali Foreman wasn't invincible, and Ali exposed him and people have to learn to accept it.

Hah, Ali "exposed" him? This is laughable. It's good to see people learned from Ali's tactic and made it so Foreman could never get back on his feet again... oh wait... after his loss to Ali he went on to go 36-4 in all of his fights until his retirement. Man, they sure used Ali's "example" of how to beat Foreman.

Ali did nothing but stand in the ring and allow Foreman to beat himself, nothing more. It is a huge win, regardless of circumstances... but it still is a very overrated win in my eyes.

Pugnacious_Z
02-11-2006, 06:19 AM
Heckler, all of the reasons you made about Ali not going to war are justifiable, but to be honest i think he was just scared to go like any1 wud be.

Oasis_Lad
02-11-2006, 06:20 AM
Heckler, all of the reasons you made about Ali not going to war are justifiable, but to be honest i think he was just scared to go like any1 wud be.

he was'nt scared he just was'nt americas lapdog
and was'nt going to kill innocent people just coz he was told to

Heckler
02-11-2006, 06:37 AM
So you think Ali was more scared, of being a desk jockey, being treated like a king, and doing soft exhibition matches to entertain troops? then the huge public outcry of him refusing, having his title stripped, possibly going to jail for 5 years, loosing his financial status during this time.. a man that comes out with something like 'No vietcong ever called me ******' a man of status, in the sixties, in America.. a country still largely guilty of discrimination... is obviously not afraid of much. Ali not going to Vietnam was a sign of a brave man, not a coward.

Heckler
02-11-2006, 06:45 AM
Hah, Ali "exposed" him? This is laughable. It's good to see people learned from Ali's tactic and made it so Foreman could never get back on his feet again... oh wait... after his loss to Ali he went on to go 36-4 in all of his fights until his retirement. Man, they sure used Ali's "example" of how to beat Foreman.

Ali did nothing but stand in the ring and allow Foreman to beat himself, nothing more. It is a huge win, regardless of circumstances... but it still is a very overrated win in my eyes.

Cry like a little *****. Foreman got exposed as the one dimensional slugger he was. Handle it and stop hugging his nuts, were his opponents following this of the same class as Ali or even COMPARABLE? did they have the same intangible qualities as Ali? your post was the joke. He did nothing? what so completely controlling the fight when it was in center ring was nothing? Or Implementing his gameplan on the ropes, and skillfully timing counterpunches on the ropes throughout the fight was nothing? And absorbing huge punches on the ropes and using subtle angles, deflecting shots of his gloves and elbows was nothing. Open your eyes, Ali beat Foreman with his brains, skills and handspeed. Like Ali Foreman wasn't god, deal with it.

Dempsey 1919
02-11-2006, 01:16 PM
1)Rocky Marciano
2)george Foreman (70's)
3)Joe Louis
4)Jack Dempsey
5)Mike Tyson
6)Joe Frazier
7)Archie Moore (even though LHW)
8)George Foreman (90's)
9)Gene tunney
10)Larry Holmes

no one should take you seriously from now on.

Southpaw Stinger
02-11-2006, 01:25 PM
It's nice he has brother George in his list twice. I have him in just the once!

I think thats the only Top 10 Greatest heavy list that hasn't got Ali on it! For shame.

Oasis_Lad
02-11-2006, 01:33 PM
It's nice he has brother George in his list twice. I have him in just the once!

I think thats the only Top 10 Greatest heavy list that hasn't got Ali on it! For shame.

i know how can u have moore and tyson in a top 10 heavyweights and not ali :confused:

Southpaw Stinger
02-11-2006, 01:47 PM
you want me to post the top 10 heavyweights in my opinion?

Please do my man!

Dempsey 1919
02-11-2006, 01:48 PM
ahhhh i said that it was my top 10 favorite heavyweights and i also said that ali's on and off it

you want me to post the top 10 heavyweights in my opinion?

that was the idea of the thread!

Southpaw Stinger
02-11-2006, 01:54 PM
Take a guess at who he'll have at number 1... lol

Dempsey 1919
02-11-2006, 01:59 PM
Take a guess at who he'll have at number 1... lol

marciano, a no brainer!

RockyMarcianofan00
02-11-2006, 02:20 PM
Top 10 Heavyweights in my opinion---not my favorites

Joe Louis- how can you not admire his boxing skill, power and mind

Muhammad Ali- i don't want to rank him above louis because louis is great but Ali's gotta be up here somewhere, his footwork handspeed helped him in the beginning of his career and his handspeed power and mind helped later, durable fighter

George Foreman- Great fighter, arguabley stronger then Marciano, big, tough, intimidating,Only once KO'd and by the man above him, not only did he have a great career in the 70's but when he made his comeback he had lost power and gained a great mind which gave him a very successful comeback

Joe Frazier- Quick, defensive, strong brawler, great fighter, he beat ali in there second rematch, great fighter overall, I think he's like if you put Rocky Marciano and Mike Tyson (even though he came later) together you get Joe Frazier, Only reason i rank him above Marciano is because Frazier is like a Marciano upgrade so he's up here

Rocky Marciano-The Brockton Blockbuster, at least the Second strongest figther ever, arguably as strong as foreman, he had great power in both hands and proabably could have fought in fights that went on to 25th rounds, Heart NEARLY unmatched,Stamina you couldn't get around,Power that would hurt you to no end, and his key Relentlessness it doesn't matter if he can win a fight or not because he won't let you, his work ethic was great, his training scedelue was outstanding,only reason i rank him at 5 instead of three is because most of the fighters above him have all fought each other beside Joe Louis, and that kinda put them into place but Marciano he was to old to face clay, and he beat Joe Louis, although still dangerous not in his prime so i feel that even though he is one of the greatest fighters i'll put him at five i may put him at 3 next time depends on where i stand at the time,49-0-0 speaks for itself though,undeafeated and still stands today, 88% KO Rate.

Mike Tyson-in my opinion one of the Greatest fighters ever, or at least had the potential to be, if Cus hadn't died, or tyson had somebody like Cus instead of Don King Tyson would have surpassed all fighters, His strength and speed dead on, you may not agree with me but look at what he did in the 80's, that was before his prime,had he reached his prime with Cus D'mato there's no way anybody would stop him, especially Buster Douglas, I mean in the 80's when someone asked him why he runs at 4am he said because no on else does but in the 90's it was more like "I'll Fu*k you till you love bi*ch" so i mean you can see how he's different. "I'm the best ever,i'm the most ruthless,most brutal, most vicious there's ever been, Lennox is a conquerer,no i'm alexander he's no alexander. I'm the best ever there's never been anyone like me, I'm sonny liston i'm jack dempsey, there's no one like me, there's no one can match me, my style is impetitious, my defense is impregnable and i'm just fericious, i want your heart i'm gunna eat his children"

Jack Dempsey-the manassa mauler *spelling*
Dempsey was a great fighter from the 20's with his strength and speed alone i was impressed, he'd hit guys and break teeth and bone and anything else, he's a feared champion the only man i believe that really always had the upper hand on him was Gene Tunney.

Gene Tunney- a military boxer if i'm not mistaken tunney was strong and always able to beat Dempsey, in there three fights i believe dempsey only won one round, the round with the "Long Count". if it had been started earlier yes Dempsy likely would have won, but when tunney got up, tunney won

Larry Holmes-alittle low on the chart i suppose considering he did have a 48-0 record but he was a good fighter, had one of the best Jabs, style like ali's he just didn't have the brain ali did, he may have even beat tyson had he been able to dance more, but he overall was a good fighter so he does deserve some recognition.

Ezzard Charles- a fighter from the 50's and very formadible, great fighter in general i mean he had the HW belt for awhile and gave Jersey Joe a run for his money, so he was a very good fighter in the 50's and i think deserves to be up here


there ya go


:boxing:
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RockyMarcianofan00
02-11-2006, 02:22 PM
marciano, a no brainer!
thats messed up
the highest i'd put Marciano on a list like that would have to #3 not because he's not number one material just because had he been tested better he would be #1 but o well
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Dempsey 1919
02-11-2006, 02:23 PM
Top 10 Heavyweights in my opinion---not my favorites

Joe Louis- how can you not admire his boxing skill, power and mind

Muhammad Ali- i don't want to rank him above louis because louis is great but Ali's gotta be up here somewhere, his footwork handspeed helped him in the beginning of his career and his handspeed power and mind helped later, durable fighter

George Foreman- Great fighter, arguabley stronger then Marciano, big, tough, intimidating,Only once KO'd and by the man above him, not only did he have a great career in the 70's but when he made his comeback he had lost power and gained a great mind which gave him a very successful comeback

Joe Frazier- Quick, defensive, strong brawler, great fighter, he beat ali in there second rematch, great fighter overall, I think he's like if you put Rocky Marciano and Mike Tyson (even though he came later) together you get Joe Frazier, Only reason i rank him above Marciano is because Frazier is like a Marciano upgrade so he's up here

Rocky Marciano-The Brockton Blockbuster, at least the Second strongest figther ever, arguably as strong as foreman, he had great power in both hands and proabably could have fought in fights that went on to 25th rounds, Heart NEARLY unmatched,Stamina you couldn't get around,Power that would hurt you to no end, and his key Relentlessness it doesn't matter if he can win a fight or not because he won't let you, his work ethic was great, his training scedelue was outstanding,only reason i rank him at 5 instead of three is because most of the fighters above him have all fought each other beside Joe Louis, and that kinda put them into place but Marciano he was to old to face clay, and he beat Joe Louis, although still dangerous not in his prime so i feel that even though he is one of the greatest fighters i'll put him at five i may put him at 3 next time depends on where i stand at the time,49-0-0 speaks for itself though,undeafeated and still stands today, 88% KO Rate.

Mike Tyson-in my opinion one of the Greatest fighters ever, or at least had the potential to be, if Cus hadn't died, or tyson had somebody like Cus instead of Don King Tyson would have surpassed all fighters, His strength and speed dead on, you may not agree with me but look at what he did in the 80's, that was before his prime,had he reached his prime with Cus D'mato there's no way anybody would stop him, especially Buster Douglas, I mean in the 80's when someone asked him why he runs at 4am he said because no on else does but in the 90's it was more like "I'll Fu*k you till you love bi*ch" so i mean you can see how he's different. "I'm the best ever,i'm the most ruthless,most brutal, most vicious there's ever been, Lennox is a conquerer,no i'm alexander he's no alexander. I'm the best ever there's never been anyone like me, I'm sonny liston i'm jack dempsey, there's no one like me, there's no one can match me, my style is impetitious, my defense is impregnable and i'm just fericious, i want your heart i'm gunna eat his children"

Jack Dempsey-the manassa mauler *spelling*
Dempsey was a great fighter from the 20's with his strength and speed alone i was impressed, he'd hit guys and break teeth and bone and anything else, he's a feared champion the only man i believe that really always had the upper hand on him was Gene Tunney.

Gene Tunney- a military boxer if i'm not mistaken tunney was strong and always able to beat Dempsey, in there three fights i believe dempsey only won one round, the round with the "Long Count". if it had been started earlier yes Dempsy likely would have won, but when tunney got up, tunney won

Larry Holmes-alittle low on the chart i suppose considering he did have a 48-0 record but he was a good fighter, had one of the best Jabs, style like ali's he just didn't have the brain ali did, he may have even beat tyson had he been able to dance more, but he overall was a good fighter so he does deserve some recognition.

Ezzard Charles- a fighter from the 50's and very formadible, great fighter in general i mean he had the HW belt for awhile and gave Jersey Joe a run for his money, so he was a very good fighter in the 50's and i think deserves to be up here


there ya go


:boxing:

that's much better.

RockyMarcianofan00
02-11-2006, 02:23 PM
thats because thats the top 10 not my favorites, but w.e
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Yogi
02-11-2006, 02:26 PM
I think thats the only Top 10 Greatest heavy list that hasn't got Ali on it! For shame.

Ali didn't make the Ring Magazine founder and LONGTIME boxing observer Nat Fleischer's list in the 1970's, so it's not the only one that doesn't include Ali.

In fact there was a Ring Magazine poll of their writers back in about 1976 and Ali had barely cracked the top ten on that one, as well (9th).

Dempsey 1919
02-11-2006, 02:28 PM
Ali didn't make the Ring Magazine founder and LONGTIME boxing observer Nat Fleischer's list in the 1970's, so it's not the only one that doesn't include Ali.

In fact there was a Ring Magazine poll of their writers back in about 1976 and Ali had barely cracked the top ten on that one, as well (9th).

probably cause they still hated him for the vietnam thing.

Yogi
02-11-2006, 02:31 PM
probably cause they still hated him for the vietnam thing.

Doubt that, since he was being loved and adored by that time already...atleast when The Ring's writers poll was conducted.

Dempsey 1919
02-11-2006, 02:33 PM
Doubt that, since he was being loved and adored by that time already...atleast when The Ring's writers poll was conducted.

what else could it be if he did all that and still barely made the top ten. :rolleyes:

RockyMarcianofan00
02-11-2006, 02:36 PM
well fighters (alot) do alot and accomplish alot and don't make the top 10
I mean personally to me Ali should be atleast top 5 i mean i don't care wear but you can't deny top 5
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Yogi
02-11-2006, 02:42 PM
what else could it be if he did all that and still barely made the top ten. :rolleyes:

A little of it may had to do with how it's tough getting a historical view of a fighter while he's still active, but maybe they simply didn't think he was as good as you, I and others think he was...They're entitled to that opinion, aren't they?

But if you believe so strongly in personal feelings clouding judgement of a fighter, why not take the in the complete opposite direction and I'll ask a rhetorical question...How do we know Ali isn't overrated nowadays because he's the most loved and cherished former athlete still living right now (or felt sorry for because of his condition)?

Dempsey 1919
02-11-2006, 02:45 PM
A little of it may had to do with how it's tough getting a historical view of a fighter while he's still active, but maybe they simply didn't think he was as good as you, I and others think he was...They're entitled to that opinion, aren't they?

But if you believe so strongly in personal feelings clouding judgement of a fighter, why not take the in the complete opposite direction and I'll ask a rhetorical question...How do we know Ali isn't overrated nowadays because he's the most loved and cherished former athlete still living right now (or felt sorry for because of his condition)?

maybe so, but you still can't take away what he did in the ring. :cool: