View Full Version : Pryor's Arguello (I) beats prime Kostya: Agree or Disagree?


SNVDoublePunch!
07-16-2010, 02:28 PM
Am I being taken in by older is better nostalgia by favoring the late stage, 140 version of Arguello over the best version of one of the most solid 140-pound champs since? I just feel he would've gotten the job done had he had someone less overwhelming to deal with than The Hawk.

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CarlosG815
07-16-2010, 02:52 PM
Yes strongly agree.

AddiX
07-17-2010, 04:18 PM
WHAT TIME IS IT???

Both great fighters and 2 of my favorites. One thing that made Kostya so great and such a respectable fighter is that he stayed about one inch outside of your reach. And as soon as you got within that Inch he picked you apart.

Pryor was just a complete animal. I loved how he constantly changed the angle he was punching from while throwing combination's. He would shift his entire body from side to side. People think he was a straight forward fighter and easy to hit which is completely false.

Both of those things have become forgotten techniques in boxing.

GameGod
07-17-2010, 05:26 PM
By the time he fought at Junior Welterweight, Arguello had lost most of the effectiveness that he had at Junior Lightweight. At the latter, he was probably the all-time #1 in terms of effectiveness; however, at the former he wouldn't really feature in the Top 20, unlike Pryor, who would be #3 or #4 of all-time.

It's a close fight; in fact, a prime Kostya nearly makes it too close to call. It would be exceptional. But I can see Arguello pulling off a close decision. A one-sided quick KO against Kostya Tszyu at this weight class would be unrealistic.

AddiX
07-17-2010, 07:45 PM
Yeah I think people really forgot how good and how tough Kostya was. He didn't get the marquee names under his belt but he had it all. No weaknesses in his game.

BennyST
07-18-2010, 09:08 AM
Hmmmm, no, I don't think so. Kostya a bit too hard a puncher for Arguello at that stage. I think he would also not have too much trouble outboxing Arguello if it came to that either. Arguello had trouble when Pryor started boxing him and KT was quite the boxer.

Nonetheless, I think KT would take this one. Top five ATG at 140 and at his best I think that Arguello would just take too much punishment and it would get stopped by the ref.

prinzemanspopa
07-18-2010, 10:57 AM
Arguello would knock Tszyu out.He has heavy hands,but was never a true devestating puncher.Too upright and predictable for a fighter of Arguello's class and punching ability.



Tszyu never faced anyone remotely close to Arguello's class.He did pummel Chavez,but Chavez,contrary to what Mickey Malone (whatever happened to him anyway?) claims,was a shot fighter and most likely still on drugs at the time.



Tszyu never really proved himself superior to Vince Phillips level talent,let alone a legitimate ATG.

Ziggy Stardust
07-18-2010, 02:12 PM
By the time he fought at Junior Welterweight, Arguello had lost most of the effectiveness that he had at Junior Lightweight. At the latter, he was probably the all-time #1 in terms of effectiveness; however, at the former he wouldn't really feature in the Top 20, unlike Pryor, who would be #3 or #4 of all-time.

It's a close fight; in fact, a prime Kostya nearly makes it too close to call. It would be exceptional. But I can see Arguello pulling off a close decision. A one-sided quick KO against Kostya Tszyu at this weight class would be unrealistic.

^^^^^ This right here. Junior-Welter was probably a weight class too high for Arguello to be at his best.

Poet

Rspen46
06-21-2013, 05:14 PM
Panama Lewis cheated for Pryor to help him beat Arguello, by the 2nd fight, Arguello's heart & soul had been stolen from him in the 1st fight.

Plus Arguello was on his 4 move up in weight and nearing the latter part of his career, Pryor beat an aging & at the end of his Career, Cervantes & He put Pryor down, not being known as a KO artist, also D. Johnson, the #4 ranked JWW put Pryor down & he wasnt known for his power, notice Pryor never, ever fought a single Pro guy in all his fights that had even decent power, why, because his people knew he would get KOed by them.

Who did Pryor beat, an Aging champ, another on his 4 weight division, and not so good 4th ranked JWW, who else, no one.

He even avoided the #1 JWW at the time, Saoul Mamby, he had no power, but I think I would have taken him to outpoint Pryor, they avoided Mamby also, Arguello beats him if Lewis does not introduce his special Elixir bottle.

So Tsyzu beats Pryor, by KO, Loi by Decision Chavez by TKO, Cervantes Prime by decision or possibly TKO, Mamby by decision or split decision, Duran destroys him if he stops off at JWW, Mancini and Pryor at LW would have been good, Pryor should win that war, but it would be fun to see, also notice how Pryor started at LW, then they saw how many talented guys were at that weight and ran to an easy division at JWW, he avoided guys, like Mancini, Arroyo, Kenty, Duran, Arguello at LW, Blake, T. Ali, J. Paul, Davis Jr., A. Ganingan, I would take to KO Pryor, even though Ganigan was not that good, he gave Arguello heck at LW, but his Power connects & takes Pryor out, Pryor is the better fighter, but can't take Andy's Power, also Gato Gonzalez gives him a battle at LW, & Livingstone Bramble, & J. Watt, begin to see why he signed up for LW, then only fought once there before running scared to an empty JWW, & even then avoided Mamby, LOL, all the Pryor lovers here, just don't know his career.
He could not take a power punch, he would down, like a sack of potatoes, so they avoided power guys, & gave him Pansies, then cheated the one real fighter in Arguello he fought.

Anthony342
06-21-2013, 06:11 PM
We get it, you have a hard on for Pryor. He's still one of my favorites.

Ray Corso
06-21-2013, 06:52 PM
I'll take Lexi all day long over Tszyu, never was impressed by him! He never fought anyone of merit who wasn't at the end of their careers. Being KO'd by Hatton isn't exactly a huge credit to his chin. Lexi wasn't at his best at 140 but I believe if he went to that weight sooner it would have helped immensely!

respen46: obviously you don't care for Mr. Prior or think he accomplished very much, thats your right!
I remember Aaron in the amatuers being a terror that no one wanted to fight because of his style (unpredictable) and determination! He brought both to the pros and did very well for an undiciplined fighter! He fought for the title and he beat a living legend! I know the circumstances and I'll bet anything I'm the only person on this board who knows P. Lewis!! That said Prior is not an ATG fighter but he was a comer and if you let your guard down he'd get you! He came in brightly and seemed to disappear quickly! Not sure how good he was for the sport or how bad but I know people loved to see him box and everyone hated boxing him!! Ray

lightsout_finit
06-21-2013, 08:37 PM
Arguello...
It would only be a matter of time till Tszyu gets hit by a savage right hand...

Even at 140 and on the slide Arguello still punched and he had a hell of a lot of experience...

Scott9945
06-21-2013, 08:43 PM
I'd pick Tszyu without giving it a second thought. If it were at a lighter weight it would be a different story.

CHEECH
06-21-2013, 10:13 PM
tend to think Tzu would b too strong for arguello at 140 tho I do see the point in Tzu getting caught coming in with a bomb. as for pryor, I don't wanna b the kinda poster who seems like he wants to argue but whoever said pryor didn't wanna fight lightweight don't know wtf he talkin about. pryor woulda fought anyone. its the 135lb who didn't wanna giv him a shot. in his prime pryor got dropped by whoever n then got up to deal out a beating. so y some don't like him? or do they really just don't know what it was back in the day?

BennyST
06-22-2013, 06:42 AM
I'll take Lexi all day long over Tszyu, never was impressed by him! He never fought anyone of merit who wasn't at the end of their careers. Being KO'd by Hatton isn't exactly a huge credit to his chin. Lexi wasn't at his best at 140 but I believe if he went to that weight sooner it would have helped immensely!

At least watch the fight before commenting on it Ray.

Ray Corso
06-22-2013, 12:00 PM
Sorry but the home cooking almost all the Brit fighters had offered to them didn't help them when they stepped up! If you "protect" these guys after they fought the trial horses and have 20 bouts its time to get "off the Isle" and go fight! Take a strong look at Calzaghe and Hatton and Tszyu and they don't stack up to the best fighters in their weight classes! Lexi has twice the fights and far better competition and skill wise and technique wise is a superior boxer to Tszyu its pretty easy to see its in black & white and the videos in color!
Your welcomed to your opinion but the greats have 70+ fights not 35 or 40 and they aren't under the protection unbrella their entire careers! Ray.

mickey malone
06-22-2013, 12:14 PM
Sorry but the home cooking almost all the Brit fighters had offered to them didn't help them when they stepped up! If you "protect" these guys after they fought the trial horses and have 20 bouts its time to get "off the Isle" and go fight! Take a strong look at Calzaghe and Hatton and Tszyu and they don't stack up to the best fighters in their weight classes! Lexi has twice the fights and far better competition and skill wise and technique wise is a superior boxer to Tszyu its pretty easy to see its in black & white and the videos in color!
Your welcomed to your opinion but the greats have 70+ fights not 35 or 40 and they aren't under the protection unbrella their entire careers! Ray.
You make a valid point Ray.

CHEECH
06-22-2013, 03:27 PM
points taken corso n given your time n connection to the game I wouldn't cross u but the original thread was the older version of arguello at 140 v Tzu. I remember how dominant arguello was at 130 n how powerful n whatever the word composed n workmanlike he was at 135, just like a seasoned assassin. but at 140, really didn't do so much n I speculate that he wasn't near as good at 140 as he was in his lighter divisions. now check this out n u of all ray might have an opinion on this, did u find it peculiar that we never did see hatton with his gloves off after the zoo fight? I mean a good half hour later he still had them on, mayhave even walked bak to the dressing room with them on. generally people think theres the opponents rep n maybe commission watching the tapin n glovin of the fighters but we know that's not always the case n I say perhaps even moreso in a fighters hometown. u feel me? ''we done already taped the gloves. come on man he cool. u think we try that? just squeeze his hands n see but not to hard cuz u might mess his hand up''

Rspen46
06-28-2013, 01:34 AM
I loved watching Pryor fight, as I said, I saw most of his pro fights in person, & most of his amateur boughts, but again, once you've seen someone yourself so often in person, you get a pretty good idea of what they can & can't do, whether you like them or not, & everyone in Cinci, including myself, loved having a Champ from our city, but no matter how much you enjoy, love or respect a fighter, I still know enough about boxing, to give a very good educated choice on who that fighter can & can't beat, & Arguello still carried enough power to have put him down, but didnt because he was on something, so Tszyu having much more power than Arguello at that weight, I think surely would have taken Pryor out, & Kostya was also an excellent boxer, he just never had to use it much at all in the Pros, don't forget, Pryor avoided every single power guy he could his whole career, why because his camp knew what all of us in Cinci knew, he could but put down & out by a top flight guy with top power, which he never fought his whole career, Arguello had good power at JWW but was on his 4th move up in weight, so not considered to have great power there, Pryor fought no one else, he even avoided Mamby, who had no power but was the #1 contender & good box and was a natural JWW, that's why Pryror ran for the hills an the JWW division instead of taking on a stacked & more lucrative LW division, why didnt he stay at LW and fight big paydays against Mancini, Watt, Bramble, Kenty, O'Grady, Ganigan, Arguello at LW, even Blake & Arroyo would have been good fights, G. Gonzalez had the power to Ko Pryor, Elizondo, a war with Frias, Howard Davis Jr., & I think there are some I'm missing, why go to an empty JWW division, with no names to fight, because his people were afraid he would lose, they wanted to drain him before the drugs did.too many others are the ones with hard ons for Pryor, he couldnt beat Duran if they fought, nor Tszyu, Loi, Cervantes in his Prime, Chavez, Canzoneri, Hearns & Leonard surely beats him, & if he moves up to WW, he loses to Palomino, cuevas & any all time great, like Napoles and others, so people get off pryor, keep him top 5 maybe but that's it, at JWW, he beat no one.

Salardo
06-28-2013, 03:21 AM
I go with Tszyu because he had too much finesse.

rsf
06-28-2013, 04:52 AM
I'd take arguello to win

Gatling
06-28-2013, 07:56 AM
I despise Pryor but he beats Kostya. But so do a lot of others.

Rspen46
06-30-2013, 03:26 PM
If anyone at JWW is viewed on 2 or 3 fights & overrated, it's Aaron Pryor, & I'm from Cincinnati, & I saw every single pro fight he had but 2, & 80% of his Amateur bouts & was a fan of his, but to me he only beat Arguello at the end of his career & on his 4th move up in weight, & Panama Lewis had to help him cheat to do that, he beat an aging Cervantes for the title & still went down once, he was put down by D. Johnson, & Kameda, Johnson had decent power, but none had great power.

Pryor started at LW, yet he never fought once there, why, because the LW division was loaded at the time, even guys, like A. Ganigan & G. Gonzalez, big power guys were in the lower top 10 & I think would have had a chance to hurt power, his camp knew that & avoided the division, & went to an easier pickins, JWW division that had almost nothing, but an old champ & a #1 contender in Mamby that had no power, yet somehow, Pryor also avoided Mamby, why because he was an excellent boxer & natural JWW, so he fought #4 D. Johnson instead, he never would have won the LW title, that's why they moved him to JWW, so he beat an Aging
Arguello & cheated him also, by the their 2nd fight, he had cheated & taken away Arguellos heart & will to win against Pryor, he beat an aging Cervantes, other than that, Pryor did nothing except compile a nice record against the bum of the month club guys.

I wish Duran had stopped off at JWW at ended the Pryor hoopla! or wished he had fought more top 10 guys at LW, Pryor was ranked 8th at LW in 1979, how about fighting Kenty, who he might have beaten, cause Kenty had no heart, but what about a war with S. O'Grady, J. Watt, A. Ganigan, G. Gonzalez, R. Mancini, H. Arroyo, R. Blake, A. Frias, R. Elizondo, Arguello at LW, Duran at LW, L. Bramble, E. Dejesus, H. Davis Jr. , Boza Edwards, E. Rosario who was on his way up to LW, anyway, you start to get the idea, why Pryor's camp moved him to an empty JWW division or a much easier one anyway, he could have made much more money fighting all those guys at LW, he probably could have beaten most of them, but we will never know, because he ran as fast as he could to JWW, lso he beat Hearns in the Amateurs, when Hearns was far from Physically mature, Pryor was just about fully Physically mature when he faced Hearns, in the Pros, Hearns puts him away like he did Duran, S.R. Leonard also beats, & I've even seen talk on Boxing forums about what if's against P. Cuevas, what a joke, Cuevas bombs Pryor out, also he could have fought J. Bumphus, L. Haley, R. Mayweather was working his way into LW, or Jose Luis Ramirez was at LW an ranked when Pryor was champ, B. Costello, R. Shields, & B. Curry were ranked JWW's, & also T. Crawley was coming up at LW, Pryor fought absolutely none of the above listed fighter's in their prime, any number of them would really have defined his career, not 3 bouts against aging guys, & 1 of them moving up for his 4th time, Pryor could be hit, he could be put down, and all by guys, not known for great Power, so I believe any good solid Power guy at LW or JWW takes him out, if he had fought them.
PRYOR, OVERRATED! Definitely.

Oh and I almost forgot, Camacho, & Jimmy Paul were coming up, Camacho would have won a decsion over Prior, & Paul would have Koed him.

& Chavez was not all that far from LW, so if Pryor had not drugged out, he had a chance at Chavez in the future.

How's that for a Hard on, how could anyone think that Arguello moving up to his 4th division beats a prime Tszyu and a Natural at the weight, LOL.

Rspen46
06-30-2013, 03:28 PM
Kostya did not have to use his excellent boxing skills much as a Pro as it came so easy to him, to win, he had over 200 amateur fights where he was much more a boxer than puncher, plus he was a natural at the weight, Arguello was on his 4th move up in weight, so he loses to Tszyu based on that, Pound for Pound, in their own natural divisions, yes Arguello is the greater fighter, but not at JWW

Tszyu is top 10, & probably top 5 JWW, Arguello would be outside the top 10 at JWW all time.

CHEECH
07-01-2013, 01:08 AM
''he could have fought J. Bumphus, L. Haley, R. Mayweather was working his way into LW, or Jose Luis Ramirez was at LW an ranked when Pryor was champ, B. Costello, R. Shields, & B. Curry were ranked JWW's, & also T. Crawley was coming up at LW, Pryor fought absolutely none of the above listed fighter's in their prime, any number of them would really have defined his career''

Well that about sums it up about how much u know about that time period of boxing. u just hate pryor. that's all. most of those names above only made it to a title well after pryors second fight with arguello which was the point in time that pryor retina went bad and started freebasing. hell, he fought furlano n hinton and made them look great only bcuz he was never the same after arguello with his drug addiction and bad eye. since u did list crawley, I bet u from philly n here's the thing with crawley, started winning meaningful fights, id say his first around mayb 84 with robin blake eventually got a shot at bramble n got his ass broke off. u got that? didn't even get bramble at 135 n somehow he's even in the conversation about pryor who made his mark at 140? I luv boxing and boxing can always use more fans but some jive fake pushin all that fiction, sorry man u don't know boxing. not when it comes to aaron pryor u don't. or u just hate him n cant hide it.