View Full Version : Harry Greb vs Marvin Hagler


jakelamotta#1
07-15-2010, 05:46 PM
who wins and how ?

Megamasterking
07-15-2010, 05:59 PM
who wins and how ?

Hagler by KO 8, Hagler had more power in his punch and had one of the best chin. Greb had also a great chin but was not a power puncher like Hearns was and Hearns really did all he could to KO Hagler.

Sugarj
07-15-2010, 06:02 PM
Hagler for me.........and not too many rounds. Greb's chin and workrate may carry him to the sixth or so. Sorry if I'm a bit unpopular with this prediction.

We can only judge Greb on his printed record at middleweight and ringside/newspaper reports. Its hard to assess a head to head matchup when you only have the ability to watch one fighter on film too. Nothing exists of Greb that I can find.

But I fear that Greb the fighter might have been rather less impressive than Greb the legend.

boxing boy
07-15-2010, 06:29 PM
Hagler for me.........and not too many rounds. Greb's chin and workrate may carry him to the sixth or so. Sorry if I'm a bit unpopular with this prediction.

We can only judge Greb on his printed record at middleweight and ringside/newspaper reports. Its hard to assess a head to head matchup when you only have the ability to watch one fighter on film too. Nothing exists of Greb that I can find.

But I fear that Greb the fighter might have been rather less impressive than Greb the legend.

But we do have film of Gene Tunney,who Greb brutally beat in there first fight.

And Tunney had 10-12lbs on Greb in most of there fights,which were evenly fought.

Just saying......

Sugarj
07-15-2010, 07:01 PM
Yea, Gene Tunney is the real world connection.

But its hard to tell how really good Tunney was in the early 20s when he lost to Greb, perhaps a little 'green'? The Carpentier fight from 1924 was the only footage I've seen (and think is available) from the early 20s of Tunney........and that was some 15-20 fights since the first Greb match. Its hard to gauge how good Tunney might have been in 1922.

Granted, Tunney looked good against Carpentier in 1924! But Gene had fought Greb several times prior to this, those fights may well have fashioned Tunney into becoming the superb fighter of the mid to late 20s that he invariably became.

The final match with Greb in what? 1925 was a one sided beating administered by Tunney from what I've read. I gather that Greb pleaded with Tunney in a clinch to carry him to the final bell (which Gentleman Gene did!). It wouldn't suprise me if 1925 Tunney would have schooled all previous versions of Greb.




Still, down at 160Lbs.......Hagler was a mean, switch hitting beast. Very difficult to beat, strong, powerful, fit and with one of the best chins ever. Perhaps I was underestimating Greb's own capacity for absorbing punishment. But I'd be confident to stick with a Hagler win.

D-MiZe
07-15-2010, 07:08 PM
I don't think Hagler would stop Greb.

boxing boy
07-16-2010, 02:53 PM
Yea, Gene Tunney is the real world connection.

But its hard to tell how really good Tunney was in the early 20s when he lost to Greb, perhaps a little 'green'? The Carpentier fight from 1924 was the only footage I've seen (and think is available) from the early 20s of Tunney........and that was some 15-20 fights since the first Greb match. Its hard to gauge how good Tunney might have been in 1922.

Granted, Tunney looked good against Carpentier in 1924! But Gene had fought Greb several times prior to this, those fights may well have fashioned Tunney into becoming the superb fighter of the mid to late 20s that he invariably became.

The final match with Greb in what? 1925 was a one sided beating administered by Tunney from what I've read. I gather that Greb pleaded with Tunney in a clinch to carry him to the final bell (which Gentleman Gene did!). It wouldn't suprise me if 1925 Tunney would have schooled all previous versions of Greb.




Still, down at 160Lbs.......Hagler was a mean, switch hitting beast. Very difficult to beat, strong, powerful, fit and with one of the best chins ever. Perhaps I was underestimating Greb's own capacity for absorbing punishment. But I'd be confident to stick with a Hagler win.

Nice post,and good points.

I was just thinking of Tunney vs Hagler,with Hagler giving away 10 pounds like Greb did? We have film on Tunney,so i was just trying to gauge Greb from the Tunney fights.

I think Tunney would have schooled Hagler too.Especially with Hagler giving away 10lbs like Greb did.

NChristo
07-16-2010, 02:55 PM
Can't really say, no one here has seen footage of Harry Greb in a fight to tell what his style really was like and what his strengths and weaknesses are, all we know is that he was a swarmer of some description.

D-MiZe
07-16-2010, 02:57 PM
Can't really say, no one here has seen footage of Harry Greb in a fight to tell what his style really was like and what his strengths and weaknesses are, all we know is that he was a swarmer of some description.

Well according to reports he went on the defensive against Tunney and managed to survive. Which is why I think Hagler wouldn't stop Greb.

Sugarj
07-16-2010, 04:04 PM
Hi Boxingboy,

I can honestly say that I've never given a Hagler vs Tunney matchup a thought. So good point there! As you say, Tunney would outweigh Marvin by perhaps a stone minimum.

Err........I'm going to go with Tunney by decision. Though it really is the hardest fight to visualise.

Its hard to guess how Tunney would react to Hagler's southpaw stance. Its hard to guess if Tunney would fight on his toes using his jab and following up with two handed flurries........or if he would press the fight knowing that he was the stronger of the two. He fought Greb aggressively from what I gather, certainly in the latter meetings.

Everything taken into consideration, I struggle more with the concept of Hagler winning than Tunney.

McGrain
07-16-2010, 04:26 PM
Hagler wouldn't stop Greb in three months of trying.


As to the fight, who knows? I tend to think Greb would have had to much going on, but it's plenty to presume that primed Hagler loses to any MW.

Megamasterking
07-16-2010, 04:34 PM
I think Tunney would have schooled Hagler too.Especially with Hagler giving away 10lbs like Greb did.

I respect your opinion and i know that its almost impossible to analyse a fight like that. As a boxer, i had the chance to have many discussions with people i consider experts of boxing, believe on this one these guys have been around the world in boxing. One thing is sure "from what i know" a prime Hagler would have give Tunney many problems. That is why is see Hagler KO Greb in the 8 round. :beerchug:

DarkTerror88
07-16-2010, 05:01 PM
A much as I love Greb i see Hagler walking away whit a close fought UD or SD.

slakka
07-16-2010, 05:28 PM
Well Ray Arcel didn't need any Greb film because he evaluated both as ringside observer and he chose Greb over Hagler BIG TIME!!
This was published information in Boxing Illustrated 1984. Also, if you found 1924 Gene Tunney impressive vs Carp as did Muhammad Ali calling him "A White Ali" keep in mind over the hill half blind middleweight Harry Greb defeated 182 lb Gene in a ten round newspaper decision in that very same year in Cleveland according to the majority of ringside reports.

Megamasterking
07-16-2010, 07:24 PM
Well Ray Arcel didn't need any Greb film because he evaluated both as ringside observer and he chose Greb over Hagler BIG TIME!!
This was published information in Boxing Illustrated 1984. Also, if you found 1924 Gene Tunney impressive vs Carp as did Muhammad Ali calling him "A White Ali" keep in mind over the hill half blind middleweight Harry Greb defeated 182 lb Gene in a ten round newspaper decision in that very same year in Cleveland according to the majority of ringside reports.

I didnt know that one, great post ! Would be difficult to go against that since he saw both and was a trainer. Although i "saw" Hagler win by KO 8, Ray Arcel:hail: is best man for answering that thread !

That is also why i think that boxers of today are not better then those Legends.