View Full Version : Let's Be Real, Floyd Mayweather Would've Beaten Sugar Ray Robinson If They Fought


Mr. President
05-30-2010, 03:39 AM
You can make the arguement that Ray is the greater fighter based on their resumes (at this point in Mayweathers career), but skill for skill Mayweather is the better fighter. Ray never would've been able to solve Mayweathers defense and Floyd would've countered the **** out of him all fight. People have a tendency to rank fighters of the past higher for sentimental reasons but the reality is boxing has evolved since the 40's.

I'm still confident Floyd will be ranked higher on most peoples ATG lists after he retires but if todays version of Floyd fought Ray Robinson at WW who do you think would win?

War Dinamita
05-30-2010, 03:41 AM
Are you saying Floyd is the greatest fighter of all time?

Fighting Marine
05-30-2010, 03:42 AM
:rofl: :rofl:

At WW? Floyd won't even step in the ring with Ray

Miburo
05-30-2010, 03:52 AM
Robinson was a lot bigger than Mayweather which would tell the tale. Robinson's losses were also mostly all to infighters/brawlers, not boxers.

Mr. President
05-30-2010, 03:58 AM
Are you saying Floyd is the greatest fighter of all time?

A fighters resume dictates how great he is so right now you'd have to rank Ray higher. That doesnt mean skill wise Floyd isnt a better fighter or he wouldnt have beaten him if they fought. A lot of you probably agree with me whether you'll admit it or not.

Fighting Marine
05-30-2010, 04:05 AM
A fighters resume dictates how great he is so right now you'd have to rank Ray higher. That doesnt mean skill wise Floyd isnt a better fighter or he wouldnt have beaten him if they fought. A lot of you probably agree with me whether you'll admit it or not.
Let's talk about skills. In the higher divisions. eg WW

Why has Floyd been reluctant to throw sustained combinations?

F l i c k e r
05-30-2010, 04:09 AM
SRR wasn't that much bigger than Floyd. From what is written, he was what 5'11" with a 72in reach. Floyd is about 5'8" with a 72in reach. Not that big of a difference. Also, from the film I have seen on him, Floyd may actually be "thicker" than SRR.


At WW, there is a possibility that Floyd could beat SRR. When I think about the fight, I just don't know how Floyd would do against that lightning quick left hook, both hooks actually. Then again, I don't know how SRR would do against the brain and evasiveness of Floyd. It's actually a tough fight to call. I can see Floyd losing and I can see SRR losing.


I would favor Floyd by a hair though, maybe 55/45. Unless those hooks I see on film are waaaaaaaay faster than they appear, which is ****ing ridiculous if they were. I actually think Floyd could take him at WW.

Mr. President
05-30-2010, 04:13 AM
Let's talk about skills. In the higher divisions. eg WW

Why has Floyd been reluctant to throw sustained combinations?

He's a defensive minded fighter and he's become more of a pot shotter since moving up in weight. He's sharp and quick enough to break his opponents down with single shots. It's worked well for him and before you criticize his offense you'd better start paying closer attention to his punch landed percentages.

JAB5239
05-30-2010, 04:20 AM
A fighters resume dictates how great he is so right now you'd have to rank Ray higher. That doesnt mean skill wise Floyd isnt a better fighter or he wouldnt have beaten him if they fought. A lot of you probably agree with me whether you'll admit it or not.

If greatness is dictated by resume doesn't it stand to reason skill is to? Make all the assumption you want, but Floyds skill has never had to be tested at the level of Robinsons over and over. How much greater would Robinson be if he only had to fight Floyds resume and ended his career undefeated with all ko's? Would that be unrealistic?

Miburo
05-30-2010, 04:21 AM
SRR wasn't that much bigger than Floyd. From what is written, he was what 5'11" with a 72in reach. Floyd is about 5'8" with a 72in reach. Not that big of a difference. Also, from the film I have seen on him, Floyd may actually be "thicker" than SRR.


At WW, there is a possibility that Floyd could beat SRR. When I think about the fight, I just don't know how Floyd would do against that lightning quick left hook, both hooks actually. Then again, I don't know how SRR would do against the brain and evasiveness of Floyd. It's actually a tough fight to call. I can see Floyd losing and I can see SRR losing.


I would favor Floyd by a hair though, maybe 55/45. Unless those hooks I see on film are waaaaaaaay faster than they appear, which is ****ing ridiculous if they were. I actually think Floyd could take him at WW.

Mayweather appears thicker because he's able to add more muscle due to the practice of same-day weigh-ins no longer being in place. Robinson would appear closer to his middleweight body at WW fighting under today's rules.

F l i c k e r
05-30-2010, 04:28 AM
Mayweather appears thicker because he's able to add more muscle due to the practice of same-day weigh-ins no longer being in place. Robinson would appear closer to his middleweight body at WW fighting under today's rules.


Makes sense. I totally forgot about the rule change. I don't know about the muscle part but adding more weight makes sense.

Even then, it's not exactly easy to bully Mayweather around, his pocket fighting and strength is very good.

NChristo
05-30-2010, 04:51 AM
I got Robinson.

NChristo
05-30-2010, 05:01 AM
I like how the 3 people that voted Floyd have never come into BH before, have you ever even seen footage of Robinson at WW before ?.

Red Rebel
05-30-2010, 05:30 AM
I hate it when people downplay too much the modern fighters, because of the love of the past favorite fighters. Boxing fans who have been watching it for 3-4 decades already barely accepts that the newer fighters can be as good sometimes better as the past boxers. However this time it's pretty obvious that the past boxer is absolutely better than the current.

SRR wins this one w/ authority.

TBear
05-30-2010, 07:35 AM
What welterweight in his prime did Mayweather beat that gave the TS the idea he would stand a chance against Robinson. Actually the only Sugar Ray I'd give Floyd a chance against is Seales.

Kids these days!

GoogleMe
05-30-2010, 07:51 AM
So you claim. But I'll just say the sport has evolved, I truly think, the technical level is much greater today then back then.

wmute
05-30-2010, 08:02 AM
The display of ignorance in this thread is disgusting.

QADASHBANYAH1
05-30-2010, 08:11 AM
So you claim. But I'll just say the sport has evolved, I truly think, the technical level is much greater today then back then.
I think it is as well, I honestly feel just as in every other sport the athletes of today are better conditioned, and better trained with better technique, but they lack the strength of the old time favorites. The old days were a test as in survival was hard for most people.

Just like in the nfl, players would play with broken fingers without cortisone shots etc. THEY WERE JUST TOUGHER, AND DID A LOT MORE FOR LESS, SO YOU GOTTA LOVE EM.

I think floyd could hold his own though IMO.

We need a time machine to settle all this madness. lol.

Ziggy Stardust
05-30-2010, 09:53 AM
The display of ignorance in this thread is disgusting.

Yeah, retardation is a given when the drones from NSB come trickling into Boxing History. Typical fan-boi logic at work: Favorite active fighter = best fighter ever. Floyd beats a well past-it 38 year old Shane = Hagler beating Hearns. It's typical.

Poet

Roy Keane
05-30-2010, 09:54 AM
would be intresting to see how ray would break floyds defense, id pick ray to win simply because i dont think floyd has the power to back ray up and potshotting just isnt enough against someone like robinson

Clyde Barrow
05-30-2010, 10:00 AM
I really hate seeing this NSB rubbish spill into this section. :nonono:

r.burgundy
05-30-2010, 11:08 AM
You can make the arguement that Ray is the greater fighter based on their resumes (at this point in Mayweathers career), but skill for skill Mayweather is the better fighter. Ray never would've been able to solve Mayweathers defense and Floyd would've countered the **** out of him all fight. People have a tendency to rank fighters of the past higher for sentimental reasons but the reality is boxing has evolved since the 40's.

I'm still confident Floyd will be ranked higher on most peoples ATG lists after he retires but if todays version of Floyd fought Ray Robinson at WW who do you think would win?

theres no video of srr at ww,which was his best weight.from the vids we have seen,he has a good 2 fisted attack,a great chin,and can throw alot.i hate ranking guys i havent seen,but he still looked great at mw and he was on the downside of his career there.i think srr is the greatest ww but he is far from unbeatable as these quacks on here like to make him out to be.i would give hearns,srl,floyd,oscar good chances of beating him

NChristo
05-30-2010, 11:17 AM
theres no video of srr at ww,which was his best weight.from the vids we have seen,he has a good 2 fisted attack,a great chin,and can throw alot.i hate ranking guys i havent seen,but he still looked great at mw and he was on the downside of his career there.i think srr is the greatest ww but he is far from unbeatable as these quacks on here like to make him out to be.i would give hearns,srl,floyd,oscar good chances of beating him

There's 4 or so videos of him at ww on youtube and plenty more out there.

I think Hearns and SRL would give him a good fight, Oscar is questionable, his chin would carry him to a decision but I don't think he's going to win, don't think Floyd would beat him at all.

Obama
05-30-2010, 11:21 AM
Floyd is too small for Robinson.

r.burgundy
05-30-2010, 11:37 AM
There's 4 or so videos of him at ww on youtube and plenty more out there.

I think Hearns and SRL would give him a good fight, Oscar is questionable, his chin would carry him to a decision but I don't think he's going to win, don't think Floyd would beat him at all.

i just went back and checked.a couple were added fairly recently.i only found 2 ww fights tho.luc van dam,and charley fusari.after watching those,i stands by my statement.i would give a good chance of those guys beating him

NChristo
05-30-2010, 11:39 AM
i just went back and checked.a couple were added fairly recently.i only found 2 ww fights tho.luc van dam,and charley fusari.after watching those,i stands by my statement.i would give a good chance of those guys beating him

Charley Fusari I believe was his last fight at welter and he was overweight for the fight, haven't seen the Van Dam fight, got the link ?.

Edit: Nevermind just seen it, very poor video though :L.

BG_Knocc_Out
05-30-2010, 11:45 AM
Skill sets from back then were drastically different. Floyds style would be too unorthodox for Ray.

Obama
05-30-2010, 01:19 PM
Skill sets from back then were drastically different. Floyds style would be too unorthodox for Ray.

Watch Charley Burley fight. Then again, Robinson ducked Burley so...

And unorthodox is the wrong word for Floyd. The guy's style is highly conventional. Philadelphia fighters been fighting like him since the 50s.

Mr. President
05-30-2010, 06:06 PM
would be intresting to see how ray would break floyds defense, id pick ray to win simply because i dont think floyd has the power to back ray up and potshotting just isnt enough against someone like robinson

If you think pot shotting is the only offensive tool in Floyds arsenal you're sadly mistaken. He has the ability to make adjustments to adapt to different situations in a way we've seen from very few fighters.

F l i c k e r
05-30-2010, 06:58 PM
I think it's funny how people just undermine Floyd's overall ability. It's hard to see Floyd being hit too often by those punches I have seen SRR throw in the tape that I have seen of him.

A lot of the guys SRR fought were very stationary and often just tried to duck or block his punches. No one that I have watched displayed countering and evasiveness even close to the level of Floyd. How would he deal with a person who fights off the back foot and when he does come forward, it's normally a one shot and an escape from an angle?

It's also hard to believe Floyd wouldn't adjust to SRR's style. SRR fought with his hands down, not at his waist but obviously not with at his chin, which makes it a lot easier to see his punches coming. Not only that but a lot easier to counter. Add that Floyd at WW doesn't throw many combos over 2 punches. It's hard for me to see SRR catching Floyd while on a flurry like how he did Loyd Valentine(yes, I know it was golden gloves but the fight demonstrates SRR's max hand speed.) or Jake Lamotta

Then the clinch fighting. SRR liked to do a lot of work in the clinch but I don't know how he would work against that shoulder roll. Specially because he has his hands down a lot, I'd expect Floyd to tee off with those counter upper cuts from the pocket while SRR goes to the body like he normally does with his right hooks in the pocket.

Also, SRR fought a 5'6" Carmen Basilio, a welterweight, at MW 2x both ended in a split decision, 1-1. So I don't know about the whole size thing being that big of a factor.


I'm just honestly assessing the match up. I can see it going either way but I would favor Floyd slightly because Floyd doesn't risk too much, he's content with pot shotting if need be. I'm just talking more about Floyd right now because people are on that, past > present no matter what, thing.

RINGG
05-30-2010, 07:01 PM
Sorry but this is a comedic thread!

THE_BIG_HURT
05-30-2010, 07:05 PM
i totally just voted for floyd and did not mean to! Sorry guys:guilty:

Lacrimosa
05-30-2010, 07:06 PM
Stylistically, Mayweather should be a favorite in this fight imo... But i doubt he would have stepped into the ring with such fighter...

cooper5
05-30-2010, 07:07 PM
Robinson fought in a time where you didn't make a career out of picking fights you are sure can win. He fought everybody to prove himself not to build a record.

Ragnar Lothbrok
05-30-2010, 08:05 PM
this thread pretty much solidifies the *****s as the worst & most delusional fan base in all of boxing.

Junito-Rulez
05-30-2010, 08:14 PM
Robinson is much greater but Floyd beats him. Wladimir would mop the floor with Louis but Louis is greater.

Mr. President
05-30-2010, 09:48 PM
i totally just voted for floyd and did not mean to! Sorry guys:guilty:

In other words you voted for Floyd because you think he'd win then retracted your vote when you read the responses in this thread.

What's funny is the majority of you who voted for Ray probably know in the back of your minds Floyd would beat him. It's a crime how bad some of you underrate modern day fighters.

It may hurt you to admit this, but todays boxers are more evolved than the boxers of the past. As good as Sugar Ray was in his day, against a fighter like Floyd he loses quite convincingly.

THE_BIG_HURT
05-31-2010, 02:19 AM
In other words you voted for Floyd because you think he'd win then retracted your vote when you read the responses in this thread.

What's funny is the majority of you who voted for Ray probably know in the back of your minds Floyd would beat him. It's a crime how bad some of you underrate modern day fighters.

It may hurt you to admit this, but todays boxers are more evolved than the boxers of the past. As good as Sugar Ray was in his day, against a fighter like Floyd he loses quite convincingly.

Nope. I voted purely on accident. If i wanted to vote with the rest of the crowd, I could have just viewed what the poll results were and THEN voted but that was not the case.

I have no problem picking Floyd in a fight i think he can win but in this case i dont think he could. The speed and power and constant barrage of punches that Robinson could throw at times would overwhelm Floyd's excellent defense in my opinion.

I also understand that fighters have evolved since back in the day, But i also feel too many people think just because everything is more advanced that the old timers would just be wiped clean...and that is just not the case.
Ray would be taller,stronger,busier, more powerful + he'd have comparable speed and Footwork.
To say he'd be beat convincingly by a guy who never fought anybody half as good as Robinson seems absurd and maybe a bit of embarrassment to the sport.

Im not trying to be offensive but NO WAY Floyd wins easy if at all. thats just silly.

Marcov
05-31-2010, 04:30 AM
this thread pretty much solidifies the *****s as the worst & most delusional fan base in all of boxing.

Yes, and I admit I was hoping these kids would come here some day and learn a bit by reading through the history section. But to many of them boxing started in 2009 and the boxers fighting today are the best ever.
Sad!

Mr. President
05-31-2010, 04:37 AM
Yes, and I admit I was hoping these kids would come here some day and learn a bit by reading through the history section. But to many of them boxing started in 2009 and the boxers fighting today are the best ever.
Sad!

F-ck outta here with this ****. Just because you average 80 posts per day on a boxing forum doesnt mean you know a lot about the sport. The people who brag about how much they know are always the ones who know the least. I suggest you start paying closer attention to my posts cause you could learn a thing or 2.

T3dBundy
05-31-2010, 08:19 AM
like some1 mentioned already, under todays conditions robinson would be a bigger welterweight.
imo floyd could compete with any ATG lightweight, but at welter i see him losing to a few ATG's, and robinson is one of them.

JAB5239
05-31-2010, 12:57 PM
Robinson is much greater but Floyd beats him. Wladimir would mop the floor with Louis but Louis is greater.

Wlad couldn't mop the floor with Sanders or Brewster the first time. Hell he struggled and fought scared against crappy ass Ibragimov. Louis would put Wlad in a casket.

Othello
05-31-2010, 01:01 PM
People have a tendency to rank fighters of the past higher for sentimental reasons but the reality is boxing has evolved since the 40's.

This is so true. Ridiculous, really.

Ragnar Lothbrok
05-31-2010, 01:02 PM
F-ck outta here with this ****. Just because you average 80 posts per day on a boxing forum doesnt mean you know a lot about the sport. The people who brag about how much they know are always the ones who know the least. I suggest you start paying closer attention to my posts cause you could learn a thing or 2.

:rofl::lol1::rofl::lol1:


You are a ****ing mental handicap.

BillyBoxing
05-31-2010, 01:11 PM
You can make the arguement that Ray is the greater fighter based on their resumes (at this point in Mayweathers career), but skill for skill Mayweather is the better fighter. Ray never would've been able to solve Mayweathers defense and Floyd would've countered the **** out of him all fight. People have a tendency to rank fighters of the past higher for sentimental reasons but the reality is boxing has evolved since the 40's.

I'm still confident Floyd will be ranked higher on most peoples ATG lists after he retires but if todays version of Floyd fought Ray Robinson at WW who do you think would win?

Well,I don't know.

If Jake De La Motta could outbox a prime Sugar Ray.

Upset or not,then Floyd has a real big crack.

But you can't compare both.

They fought in different eras with differents means.

ALL I KNOW IS SUGAR IS X TIMES GREATER,IN HIS OWN ERA AND A GENTLEMAN.
He fought everybody X times,unlike Floyd who fought few,and the bests out of their primes.

WE DONT KNOW HOW SUGAR RAY WOULD BE GOOD IN 2010 MODERN.
BETTER TRAINED THATS FOR SURE.

BillyBoxing
05-31-2010, 01:22 PM
You can make the arguement that Ray is the greater fighter based on their resumes (at this point in Mayweathers career), but skill for skill Mayweather is the better fighter. Ray never would've been able to solve Mayweathers defense and Floyd would've countered the **** out of him all fight. People have a tendency to rank fighters of the past higher for sentimental reasons but the reality is boxing has evolved since the 40's.

I'm still confident Floyd will be ranked higher on most peoples ATG lists after he retires but if todays version of Floyd fought Ray Robinson at WW who do you think would win?

It's stupid,skill for skill,Sultan Ibragimov is better,slicker than Jack Dempsey.AND???

You can't compare eras.
Because,if Floyd was born in Ray's era,he would have been a worst technician and maybe get ktfo.
The Mayweathers took tricks,from guys like "el intocable" Locche,Pepp,and many others.
It's just like technology,modern scientists are doin crazy stuffs because of former scientists.

It's usefull,unfair and direspectfull to compare BOTH.

SUGAR RAY GREATER THAN FLOYD ALL DAY.

TheGreatA
05-31-2010, 02:05 PM
Well,I don't know.

If Jake De La Motta could outbox a prime Sugar Ray.

Upset or not,then Floyd has a real big crack.

But you can't compare both.

They fought in different eras with differents means.

ALL I KNOW IS SUGAR IS X TIMES GREATER,IN HIS OWN ERA AND A GENTLEMAN.
He fought everybody X times,unlike Floyd who fought few,and the bests out of their primes.

WE DONT KNOW HOW SUGAR RAY WOULD BE GOOD IN 2010 MODERN.
BETTER TRAINED THATS FOR SURE.

He didn't though.

CarlosG815
05-31-2010, 02:11 PM
I don't understand this thread.

There are a lot of HW's that would beat Muhammad Ali but he is still known as being the greatest of all time.

What is your point?

DeepSleep
05-31-2010, 03:39 PM
I don't understand this thread.

There are a lot of HW's that would beat Muhammad Ali but he is still known as being the greatest of all time.

What is your point?

Who would you pick over prime Ali?

CarlosG815
05-31-2010, 05:12 PM
Who would you pick over prime Ali?

Jack Johnson
Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano could take at least one from a 3 fight series
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson
Perhaps Jack Dempsey despite his size
Larry Holmes

GameGod
05-31-2010, 05:57 PM
I think it would actually be close because Mayweather is a truly special boxer as well. But I don't think he could win entirely and he I would slightly favour Ray Robinson.

Jack Johnson
Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano could take at least one from a 3 fight series
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson
Perhaps Jack Dempsey despite his size
Larry Holmes

Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano (1/3)
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson
Jack Dempsey
Larry Holmes

Here's a corrected version of your list. I'm assuming you mean in any given fight, rather than 1/3, except when mentioned (Marciano). I agree Marciano might take 1 out of 3. But none of the others are winning a random fight. If you want to argue this, I'm up for it.

Ziggy Stardust
05-31-2010, 06:08 PM
I agree Marciano might take 1 out of 3. But none of the others are winning a random fight. If you want to argue this, I'm up for it.

Unless there's a prohibitive style matchup such as Foreman versus short-armed pressure fighters I tend to think any ATG fighter is capable of beating any other ATG fighter in a one-off fight. I don't buy the notion that an ATG fighter whitewashes another ATG fighter 10 out of 10 times without such a style advantage.

Poet

The_Demon
05-31-2010, 06:22 PM
You need to educate yourself on the great sugar ray robinson

Junito-Rulez
05-31-2010, 09:46 PM
Wlad couldn't mop the floor with Sanders or Brewster the first time. Hell he struggled and fought scared against crappy ass Ibragimov. Louis would put Wlad in a casket.

Joe louis was basically a CW, didn't have the kind of conditionning program modern athletes like Wlad enjoy. Wlad is ten times the athlete Louis is, hits harder and is much stronger.

What you say is like saying that Fausto Coppi is better than Alberto Contador or that DiStefano would do better than C. Ronaldo in 2010 Madrid.


For the record, i think Joe Louis is a MUCH greater fighter than Wlad Klits.

JAB5239
06-01-2010, 12:18 AM
Joe louis was basically a CW, didn't have the kind of conditionning program modern athletes like Wlad enjoy. Wlad is ten times the athlete Louis is, hits harder and is much stronger.

Well you've just proven to me that you have no idea what you're talking about. Louis had no problems beating fighters like Abe Simon, Primo Carnera or Buddy Baer (all around the size of Wlad) and never had a problem going 15 rounds let alone 12. We've seen Wlad gas out on more than one occasion and he doesn't come close to throwing the amount of punches Louis threw in a fight. Think about this, Wlad was rocked by DaVaryll Williams who only weight about 10 more pounds than Louis, and didn't have nearly the skill set nor the knock outs over quality opposition that Louis did. Louis would abuse Wlad and stop him in 3.

CarlosG815
06-01-2010, 11:00 AM
I think it would actually be close because Mayweather is a truly special boxer as well. But I don't think he could win entirely and he I would slightly favour Ray Robinson.



Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano (1/3)
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson
Jack Dempsey
Larry Holmes

Here's a corrected version of your list. I'm assuming you mean in any given fight, rather than 1/3, except when mentioned (Marciano). I agree Marciano might take 1 out of 3. But none of the others are winning a random fight. If you want to argue this, I'm up for it.

Prime Joe Frazier beats Ali the majority of the time. His swarmer, high pressure style is the way to beat Ali. You have to swarm him and pressure him. Tyson could do it better than Joe did and once he caught Ali it would be all over.

George Chuvalo wasn't quick in the hands and was able to land cleanly on Ali over and over - to the head and to the body. Watch round 13 of their first bout and watch Chuvalo land a clean left hook to the head of Ali and follow up with a 1-2-3 to the body. A faster stronger fighter would be able to knock some screws loose, the way Frazier was able to do with his left hook in my sig pic.

Rocky Marciano would probably lose most rounds but has a good chance of scoring a knockout over Ali by constantly pressuring him and throwing hard punches.

Tyson was very good at avoiding punches while moving in close, and throwing deadly combination's with lightning fast speed not to mention he has more power than all the fighters listed above, I think it would only be a matter of time before he caught Ali with something vicious and put him away. Ali could dance for a while but once he caught him it would be bad things for Ali.

wmute
06-01-2010, 01:11 PM
Prime Joe Frazier beats Ali the majority of the time. His swarmer, high pressure style is the way to beat Ali. You have to swarm him and pressure him. Tyson could do it better than Joe did and once he caught Ali it would be all over.

George Chuvalo wasn't quick in the hands and was able to land cleanly on Ali over and over - to the head and to the body. Watch round 13 of their first bout and watch Chuvalo land a clean left hook to the head of Ali and follow up with a 1-2-3 to the body. A faster stronger fighter would be able to knock some screws loose, the way Frazier was able to do with his left hook in my sig pic.

Rocky Marciano would probably lose most rounds but has a good chance of scoring a knockout over Ali by constantly pressuring him and throwing hard punches.

Tyson was very good at avoiding punches while moving in close, and throwing deadly combination's with lightning fast speed not to mention he has more power than all the fighters listed above, I think it would only be a matter of time before he caught Ali with something vicious and put him away. Ali could dance for a while but once he caught him it would be bad things for Ali.

Interesting take on Tyson-Ali considering Tyson usually folded in front of adversity, and Ali was never stopped in his career.

wmute
06-01-2010, 01:24 PM
I find it hilarious that ppl here think that Mayweather would be a martian skillwise in the 40s. He is one of the most old school fighters of the last 20 years. He fights disciplined and throws every punch perfectly like a textbook. He never rushes anything. He knows a million tricks. Mayweather is not Jones Jr. He is one of the smartest and technically sound boxers to ever grace a ring, qualities which were much more common in the 40s than in the 2000s. Even his training methods. He is basically doing it like an oldtimer putting on very little weight even if the weigh in is the day before.

As for the specific fight. Well, let me see Mayweather beat anything remotely resembling Robinson, before I can even entertain the notion that he can beat him. Mayweather is one of the best fighters I have ever seen. Not the welterweight version of him. Robinson happens to be the consensus best welterweight in history. If you want to propose ATG fantasy fights involving Mayweather, you better pick around 135-140. The only ATG welter I would not necessarily favor against Mayweather, would be Napoles, because he would be the right size.

ufirst
06-02-2010, 08:54 AM
Ray would be busier and although maybe not as quick as Floyd he was way too dogged to be deterred by the single and two shot counters Floyd would have to rely on (fragile hands and all). Plus I couldn't see at any point Floyd being able to make Ray fight going backwards-- Floyd edges in defense and most most likely speed/movement- but Ray wins the power (hard combinations and relentlessness) categories, he was no slow poke either and both have great boxing IQs. I think Ray would have had the good sense to target the body as much as Floyd's head--and the ability to land effectively. I dno't think he would stop Floyd though. :boxing:Decision Ray.

roxy
06-03-2010, 09:30 PM
Someone should wait a week or two and post this same poll in the nsb, then we could sit back and laugh at the lack of boxing knowledge and N-hugging that occurs!

Jabroni
04-23-2011, 07:02 PM
:boxing:
:boxing:
:boxing:
:boxing:

IronDanHamza
04-23-2011, 07:15 PM
Let's be real.....

No, he wouldn't.

Pinoy4ever
04-23-2011, 07:44 PM
Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest unofficial boxer of all times.

Floyd Jr. is a great boxer but he hasn't been active like he should and Sugar Ray would beat him.

- v e t -
04-23-2011, 07:46 PM
yes, i voted floyd, it wasnt a mistake

if you really want to know why you can ask... but not in a thread

studentofthegam
04-23-2011, 08:01 PM
A fighters resume dictates how great he is so right now you'd have to rank Ray higher. That doesnt mean skill wise Floyd isnt a better fighter or he wouldnt have beaten him if they fought. A lot of you probably agree with me whether you'll admit it or not.Good luck getting people to even admit he has a chance let alone win.

Mayweather appears thicker because he's able to add more muscle due to the practice of same-day weigh-ins no longer being in place. Robinson would appear closer to his middleweight body at WW fighting under today's rules.Floyd has never been one to add a boat load of weight from weigh in to fight night. Check the records.

I like how the 3 people that voted Floyd have never come into BH before, have you ever even seen footage of Robinson at WW before ?.I have and he keeps his hands low and falls through on a lot of his power shots. Floyd could make him pay for both.

So you claim. But I'll just say the sport has evolved, I truly think, the technical level is much greater today then back then.Its easy to see. After watching as much as I could of Harry Greb its laughable to think he could beat any top guys today. Considering the color line that was drawn in those days combined with that silly looking boxing style, I would be ashamed to even put him in a fantasy match against the likes of even Baldomir.

studentofthegam
04-23-2011, 08:13 PM
Well,I don't know.

If Jake De La Motta could outbox a prime Sugar Ray.

Upset or not,then Floyd has a real big crack.

But you can't compare both.

They fought in different eras with differents means.

ALL I KNOW IS SUGAR IS X TIMES GREATER,IN HIS OWN ERA AND A GENTLEMAN.He fought everybody X times,unlike Floyd who fought few,and the bests out of their primes.

WE DONT KNOW HOW SUGAR RAY WOULD BE GOOD IN 2010 MODERN.
BETTER TRAINED THATS FOR SURE.Thats exactly what I mean about nostalgia. If you watch a few doc's on SRR then you'd know he was a womanizer, he smacked his wife around on the regular, Kept big entourages and was a pain to do business with. Sounds a little more similar to Floyd than you think huh? This isnt from speculation but straight from the mouths of the people close to him and his wife at the time.

TouchyAndalou
04-23-2011, 08:28 PM
It may hurt you to admit this, but todays boxers are more evolved than the boxers of the past. As good as Sugar Ray was in his day, against a fighter like Floyd he loses quite convincingly.This is the exact argument I made a couple of weeks back for Chavez Jr beating and stopping Sugar Ray Robinson, but do you think these guys would listen? Of course not! Any fighter from today could beat any fighter from yesteryear, it's so obvious. John Ruiz would have given Muhammed Ali fits, before brutally killing him in the 3rd!

SBleeder
04-23-2011, 08:28 PM
After watching as much as I could of Harry Greb its laughable to think he could beat any top guys today.

Seeing as how the only footage that exists of him is of him training, I'm guessing you're pulling this statement out of your butt.

John Ruiz would have given Muhammed Ali fits, before brutally killing him in the 3rd!


What's scary is (a) you're being serious, and (b) your DNA has the potential to be passed along.

IronDanHamza
04-23-2011, 08:28 PM
Good luck getting people to even admit he has a chance let alone win.

Floyd has never been one to add a boat load of weight from weigh in to fight night. Check the records.

I have and he keeps his hands low and falls through on a lot of his power shots. Floyd could make him pay for both.

Its easy to see. After watching as much as I could of Harry Greb its laughable to think he could beat any top guys today. Considering the color line that was drawn in those days combined with that silly looking boxing style, I would be ashamed to even put him in a fantasy match against the likes of even Baldomir.

What fights have you seen of Harry Greb?

So you're claiming Carlos Baldomir would beat Harry Greb?

Please, just no.

IronDanHamza
04-23-2011, 08:30 PM
This is the exact argument I made a couple of weeks back for Chavez Jr beating and stopping Sugar Ray Robinson, but do you think these guys would listen? Of course not! Any fighter from today could beat any fighter from yesteryear, it's so obvious. John Ruiz would have given Muhammed Ali fits, before brutally killing him in the 3rd!

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

"The sport has evolved!"

Don't you just love that argument?

TouchyAndalou
04-23-2011, 08:41 PM
What's scary is (a) you're being serious, and (b) your DNA has the potential to be passed along.I can't have babies, my insides are all wrong. :(

In all seriousness, it can be problematic in comparing fighters from different eras in head-to-head matchups, but if we assume that both these guys were fighting at the same time, either then or now, thus having access to the same training methods, diets, suppliments, whatever, I'm going with Robinson in this, especially over 15 rounds. I think Floyd makes a fight of it, but looking at how they've performed against who they've faced, I see Robinson eventually getting to Floyd. I think Leonard might as well, although it'd be close I think.

New England
04-23-2011, 08:50 PM
robinson was every bit the boxer and technician that mayweather was

he's credited for outboxing WW's and MW's in multiples who are superior to any win that floyd has on his resume


and finally, robinson was a brutal offensive fighter
he had bone breaking power in either hand
he could knock a guy out moving backwards
he's one of the hardest punchers to ever live.


floyd's a fantastic technician
he really is

but ray robinson is universally recognised as the most complete fighter that has ever boxed.
he had no flaws
what's not registering?


floyd mayweather couldnt stop juan manuel marquez (and lord knows he tried.. if nothing else it makes better business sense to knock marquez out)
he has average punching power
he doesnt produce a high volume
he's not a finisher. he wont open up until his opponent has no prayer, which in historic matchups, is a horrible plan

in other word's there's no way he stops robinson (stopped once in one of the most complete careers ever, in a lhw title fight of heat exhaustion against a hall of famer, in the 14th round, in a fight he was winning...)



i could continue
but i dont need to!

floyd mayweather has very little chance whatsoever of beating robinson





for 40 million dollars, sugar ray robinson would fight (and likely beat via stoppage) sergio martinez, manny pacquiao, and then floyd mayweather, all in the same month or so

IronDanHamza
04-23-2011, 09:05 PM
robinson was every bit the boxer and technician that mayweather was

he's credited for outboxing WW's and MW's in multiples who are superior to any win that floyd has on his resume


and finally, robinson was a brutal offensive fighter
he had bone breaking power in either hand
he could knock a guy out moving backwards
he's one of the hardest punchers to ever live.


floyd's a fantastic technician
he really is

but ray robinson is universally recognised as the most complete fighter that has ever boxed.
he had no flaws
what's not registering?


floyd mayweather couldnt stop juan manuel marquez (and lord knows he tried.. if nothing else it makes better business sense to knock marquez out)
he has average punching power
he doesnt produce a high volume
he's not a finisher. he wont open up until his opponent has no prayer, which in historic matchups, is a horrible plan

in other word's there's no way he stops robinson (stopped once in one of the most complete careers ever, in a lhw title fight of heat exhaustion against a hall of famer, in the 14th round, in a fight he was winning...)



i could continue
but i dont need to!

floyd mayweather has very little chance whatsoever of beating robinson





for 40 million dollars, sugar ray robinson would fight (and likely beat via stoppage) sergio martinez, manny pacquiao, and then floyd mayweather, all in the same month or so

Let's add the fact Robinson has arguablly the best chin of all time.

What does Floyd Mayweather do better than Ray Robinson?

Almost nothing. Maybe defending punches due to the fact he doesn't throw that many.

Ray Robinson has every advantage over Floyd Mayweather.

Let's not forget how much bigger and stronger Robinson is at WW compared to Floyd.

I love Floyd, he is by far my favourite active fighter and favourite fighter of the last era. But he is out of his league with Ray Robinson, utterly out of his leauge.

fight_professor
04-23-2011, 09:11 PM
I love Money, he's my fave fighter but SRR is the closest to the complete boxer ever seen. Tremendous power, speed, combo punching, brilliant finisher, great heart. Etc.

Would be a classic. Favour SRR 60/40.

Just a note though, opinions are cool and all, but comparing people in any sport across eras is really odious and a bit pointless. SRR was the best at his time, as PBF is the best now. The rest as they say is speculative.

studentofthegam
04-23-2011, 09:18 PM
Seeing as how the only footage that exists of him is of him training, I'm guessing you're pulling this statement out of your butt.




What's scary is (a) you're being serious, and (b) your DNA has the potential to be passed along.Yeah it was just sparring and a ridiculous workout. If anyone today looked anything like that you would laugh til you pissed your pants. Some guys just cant do it past their time period and he's one of them.

What fights have you seen of Harry Greb?

So you're claiming Carlos Baldomir would beat Harry Greb?

Please, just no.None but if you have the footage thats gonna shut me up then Im open to it. The reality is you probably dont. Aside from that tell me how the Greb/Baldomir fight would go and maybe it will open my closed eyes. Because trying to tell me how he would beat anybody better from today just doesnt seem possible. I also have a better question. We dont have to come all the way to the present. Tell me he stands a chance of even competng against a SRR. Not winning just how could he keep from being carried out on a stretcher?

Let's add the fact Robinson has arguablly the best chin of all time.

What does Floyd Mayweather do better than Ray Robinson?

Almost nothing. Maybe defending punches due to the fact he doesn't throw that many.

Ray Robinson has every advantage over Floyd Mayweather.

Let's not forget how much bigger and stronger Robinson is at WW compared to Floyd.

I love Floyd, he is by far my favourite active fighter and favourite fighter of the last era. But he is out of his league with Ray Robinson, utterly out of his leauge.What is this belief that Floyd is a weak WW. You cant name one guy that bullied Floyd around the ring.

Ziggy Stardust
04-23-2011, 09:20 PM
Retards :nonono:

IronDanHamza
04-23-2011, 09:40 PM
None but if you have the footage thats gonna shut me up then Im open to it. The reality is you probably dont. Aside from that tell me how the Greb/Baldomir fight would go and maybe it will open my closed eyes. Because trying to tell me how he would beat anybody better from today just doesnt seem possible. I also have a better question. We dont have to come all the way to the present. Tell me he stands a chance of even competng against a SRR. Not winning just how could he keep from being carried out on a stretcher?

Your basing your opinion of Harry Greb on a sparring session? Imagine if you only had footage of Floyd Mayweather and Spadafora's sparring session.

How would Greb-Baldomir go? Well considering Greb is a natural MW and Baldomir's highest weight is Jr Middleweight, it wouldn't even be fair.

But, let's pretend Baldomir was part of the orginal 8.

How would it go? Erm, not very well for Baldomir... Greb has beat ATG fighters with ease with sheer ruthless agression that Baldomir could only dream of being a 10th as good as. He has beaten fighters with ease who are better than Baldomir in every single catergory.

What is your obsession with comparing great fighters to Carlos Baldomir? First Chavez and now Greb?

What is this belief that Floyd is a weak WW. You cant name one guy that bullied Floyd around the ring.

Where did I say Floyd is weak at WW? Quote me, please.

Considering Ray Robinson, a natural LW, went on to hold his own with some of the strongest WW's and even MW's in the history of boxing. I'm sure he will be strong enough at WW for Floyd Mayweather Jr.

JAB5239
04-23-2011, 09:51 PM
Its easy to see. After watching as much as I could of Harry Greb its laughable to think he could beat any top guys today. Considering the color line that was drawn in those days combined with that silly looking boxing style, I would be ashamed to even put him in a fantasy match against the likes of even Baldomir.

You're caught dead in a lie since there is no film of Greb fighting AND he routinely crossed the color line to take on the best black fighters available. You really know nothing of this sport son.

studentofthegam
04-23-2011, 09:55 PM
Your basing your opinion of Harry Greb on a sparring session? Imagine if you only had footage of Floyd Mayweather and Spadafora's sparring session.

How would Greb-Baldomir go? Well considering Greb is a natural MW and Baldomir's highest weight is Jr Middleweight, it wouldn't even be fair.

But, let's pretend Baldomir was part of the orginal 8.

How would it go? Erm, not very well for Baldomir... Greb has beat ATG fighters with ease with sheer ruthless agression that Baldomir could only dream of being a 10th as good as. He has beaten fighters with ease who are better than Baldomir in every single catergory.

What is your obsession with comparing great fighters to Carlos Baldomir? First Chavez and now Greb?



Where did I say Floyd is weak at WW? Quote me, please.

Considering Ray Robinson, a natural LW, went on to hold his own with some of the strongest WW's and even MW's in the history of boxing. I'm sure he will be strong enough at WW for Floyd Mayweather Jr.I didnt compare Greb to Baldomir. I said he couldnt beat him. Thats not the same thing. You still didnt give me a short over view of how the fight would go. I'm not badgering you but maybe you've seen something from Greb I havent. Floyd's sparring looked world class. Grebs sparring looked like a bumble bee fight. If it is something better to see from him then point me in the direction.

To say SRR's strength is gonna put Floyd in a tight wouldnt be enough for him to win in my opinion. Brut strength is not the recipe to beat Floyd is all. He was able push those same guy's everybody thought could bully him.

studentofthegam
04-23-2011, 10:02 PM
You're caught dead in a lie since there is no film of Greb fighting AND he routinely crossed the color line to take on the best black fighters available. You really know nothing of this sport son.Name the black fighter he fought thats worth a mention. And then you too tell me the Atg fighter today that wouldnt beat the sh*t out of him.

IronDanHamza
04-23-2011, 10:03 PM
I didnt compare Greb to Baldomir. I said he couldnt beat him. Thats not the same thing. You still didnt give me a short over view of how the fight would go. I'm not badgering you but maybe you've seen something from Greb I havent.

You're saying Baldomir couldn't beat Harry Greb. That is comparing them...

I don't need to, it's so blatently obvious Harry Greb would make mince meat of Carlos Baldomir. He was able to beat fighters 10x his class with ease. He's naturally bigger than him, he's better tham him in EVERY caterogory. The question is; How do you expect Baldomir to beat Greb?

I mean, you are claiming Baldomir would beat Greb? Do you know how moronic that is??

Floyd's sparring looked world class. Grebs sparring looked like a bumble bee fight. If it is something better to see from him then point me in the direction.

Floyd's sparring with Spadafora looked world class?? Have you even seen it? He was beaten up in that sparring session.

Imagine if that was the only footage of Floyd, would you make the same assumption you have with Greb?

To say SRR's strength is gonna put Floyd in a tight wouldnt be enough for him to win in my opinion. Brut strength is not the recipe to beat Floyd is all. He was able push those same guy's everybody thought could bully him.

Yet, I didn't say that.

I said the fact Robinson is bigger and stronger than Floyd merely add's to the huge advantages he already has.

Robinson has almost every advantage over Floyd Mayweather, including size and strength.

Like I said, Floyd is out of his league next to Sugar Ray Robinson.

JAB5239
04-23-2011, 10:05 PM
Name the black fighter he fought thats worth a mention. And then you too tell me the Atg fighter today that wouldnt beat the sh*t out of him.

Jack Blackburn, Kid Norfolk and Tiger Flowers off the top of mt head. All hall of famers. If you want more I can get more names for you.

ex-pacfan
04-23-2011, 10:07 PM
That article posted by New England is the truth! b all end all. Honestly, i'm appalled that this topic is even being discussed. I mean, seriously? PBF and SRR? In the same sentence? The legacy of Ray Robinson has been done a great, great dis-service. PBF and Pernell Whitaker maybe? PBF and Aaron Pryor maybe? But not Ray Robinson? Come on now!

Barnburner
04-23-2011, 10:07 PM
Name the black fighter he fought thats worth a mention. And then you too tell me the Atg fighter today that wouldnt beat the sh*t out of him.
Ever heard of Tiger Flowers?

Didn't think so.

IronDanHamza
04-23-2011, 10:13 PM
Name the black fighter he fought thats worth a mention. And then you too tell me the Atg fighter today that wouldnt beat the sh*t out of him.

Erm....does Tiger Flowers ring a bell? One of the greatest soutpaws of all time?

Jack Blackburn maybe?

Kid Lewis?

Willie Langford?

Kid Norfolk?

He had NO problem crossing the color line. Which shows how ignorant you are.

Just stop posting.

Barnburner
04-23-2011, 10:16 PM
Erm....does Tiger Flowers ring a bell? One of the greatest soutpaws of all time?

Jack Blackburn maybe?

Kid Lewis?

Willie Langford?

Kid Norfolk?

He had NO problem crossing the color line. Which shows how ignorant you are.

Just stop posting.
Tiger Flowers gets so under-rated it hurts. I might make a thread on him.

Mannie Phresh
04-23-2011, 10:21 PM
this is a ******* alt not so different from akopahas many alts. hes trying to balance the utter and complete stupidity put forth by hugh grant about pac being better and greater than sugar ray robinson exposed by burner earlier today. this is to discredit logical boxing fans on the side of better testing in boxing. dont be fooled by the alts base and simple minded politics.

New England
04-23-2011, 10:30 PM
Let's add the fact Robinson has arguablly the best chin of all time.

What does Floyd Mayweather do better than Ray Robinson?

Almost nothing. Maybe defending punches due to the fact he doesn't throw that many.

Ray Robinson has every advantage over Floyd Mayweather.

Let's not forget how much bigger and stronger Robinson is at WW compared to Floyd.

I love Floyd, he is by far my favourite active fighter and favourite fighter of the last era. But he is out of his league with Ray Robinson, utterly out of his leauge.



lol thank you for crossing the t's and dotting the i's for me, brother


evidently harry greb is ducking slick black fighters these days as well?


**** is wild and i'm getting confused

GJC
04-23-2011, 10:33 PM
What's scary is your DNA has the potential to be passed along.

Whats scary is that he was the quickest of millions of sperm.

I just feel I was killing time for 60 years until Mayweather came along ;)

studentofthegam
04-23-2011, 10:54 PM
You're saying Baldomir couldn't beat Harry Greb. That is comparing them...

I don't need to, it's so blatently obvious Harry Greb would make mince meat of Carlos Baldomir. He was able to beat fighters 10x his class with ease. He's naturally bigger than him, he's better tham him in EVERY caterogory. The question is; How do you expect Baldomir to beat Greb?

I mean, you are claiming Baldomir would beat Greb? Do you know how moronic that is??



Floyd's sparring with Spadafora looked world class?? Have you even seen it? He was beaten up in that sparring session.

Imagine if that was the only footage of Floyd, would you make the same assumption you have with Greb?



Yet, I didn't say that.

I said the fact Robinson is bigger and stronger than Floyd merely add's to the huge advantages he already has.

Robinson has almost every advantage over Floyd Mayweather, including size and strength.

Like I said, Floyd is out of his league next to Sugar Ray Robinson.Yeah I saw the footage and Floyd wasnt beaten up. Spaddy did well though. It actually looked like a real sparring session atleast. I cant just take words passed on when I dont have access to video or something to view the fights. Didnt know he beat Langford or Flowers so I consider myself schooled on that. Then to I havent seen either of the two fight either. From what's available its no way he could win against anybody today. And Baldo would have been the same weight class probably in that time period because he wasnt even a natural WW in this time period.

Jack Blackburn, Kid Norfolk and Tiger Flowers off the top of mt head. All hall of famers. If you want more I can get more names for you.See above.

Erm....does Tiger Flowers ring a bell? One of the greatest soutpaws of all time?

Jack Blackburn maybe?

Kid Lewis?

Willie Langford?

Kid Norfolk?

He had NO problem crossing the color line. Which shows how ignorant you are.

Just stop posting.How many of these fights have you seen? and Who of the ATG's today could he beat? He's only good for the early 1900's.

Ziggy Stardust
04-23-2011, 10:54 PM
Gentlemen, more good work smacking around our 'tard population thank you! :boxing:

Poet

SCtrojansbaby
04-23-2011, 11:09 PM
I hate it when people downplay too much the modern fighters, because of the love of the past favorite fighters. Boxing fans who have been watching it for 3-4 decades already barely accepts that the newer fighters can be as good sometimes better as the past boxers. However this time it's pretty obvious that the past boxer is absolutely better than the current.

SRR wins this one w/ authority.

Every thing sounds better hearing it from your dad or someone at your barbershop instead of actually being alive to watch them.

IronDanHamza
04-23-2011, 11:22 PM
Yeah I saw the footage and Floyd wasnt beaten up. Spaddy did well though. It actually looked like a real sparring session atleast. I cant just take words passed on when I dont have access to video or something to view the fights. Didnt know he beat Langford or Flowers so I consider myself schooled on that. Then to I havent seen either of the two fight either. From what's available its no way he could win against anybody today. And Baldo would have been the same weight class probably in that time period because he wasnt even a natural WW in this time period.

If you are thinking Sam Langford which I suspect you are, it's not. It's Willie Langford, another black fighter.

The point is he crossed the colour line, plenty of times.

So why comment on it, then? If you don't know Harry Greb crossed the colour line then it's obvious you know little about him. So why comment? Why not go out and learn about him instead of just assuming? Then maybe you wouldn't say things like Baldomir would beat him.

Yes, I already stated they could meet at MW in the orginal 8. But again, Greb would have the size advantage......and every other advantage.....

How many of these fights have you seen? and Who of the ATG's today could he beat? He's only good for the early 1900's.

I haven't seen any fights of Harry Greb. There aren't any.

But I don't need footage to know Harry Greb was one of the greatest fighters ever. Nor do I need any to KNOW he would beat Carlos Baldomir.

The guy beat Gene Tunney with one eye! I KNOW he would beat Baldomir.

GJC
04-23-2011, 11:31 PM
I hate it when people downplay too much the modern fighters, because of the love of the past favorite fighters. Boxing fans who have been watching it for 3-4 decades already barely accepts that the newer fighters can be as good sometimes better as the past boxers. However this time it's pretty obvious that the past boxer is absolutely better than the current.

SRR wins this one w/ authority.

My top 20 pretty much covers boxing since the turn of the century pretty evenly. Thing is whilst there are peaks and troughs you will generally find a couple of fighters from each era standing above the rest. Thing is that gets us wrinklies annoyed is the fact that suddenly in this era we have ten fighters that simply must be in any top 20 all time.
Still in 20 years the new generation will be criticising fighters from your era that you know were very good fighters then you'll understand a bit better :)

Ziggy Stardust
04-23-2011, 11:37 PM
My top 20 pretty much covers boxing since the turn of the century pretty evenly. Thing is whilst there are peaks and troughs you will generally find a couple of fighters from each era standing above the rest. Thing is that gets us wrinklies annoyed is the fact that suddenly in this era we have ten fighters that simply must be in any top 20 all time.
Still in 20 years the new generation will be criticising fighters from your era that you know were very good fighters then you'll understand a bit better :)

The truth is, the vast majority of the fighters being touted as "great" today won't even be remembered 10 years from now. That happens in EVERY generation. Hindsight removes the missgiven tag of greatness from the detritus that inevitably gets over-hyped simply because they're active NOW.

Poet

Mannie Phresh
04-23-2011, 11:42 PM
The truth is, the vast majority of the fighters being touted as "great" today won't even be remembered 10 years from now. That happens in EVERY generation. Hindsight removes the missgiven tag of greatness from the detritus that inevitably gets over-hyped simply because they're active NOW.

Poet

mass effect eats star wars.

Ziggy Stardust
04-23-2011, 11:54 PM
mass effect eats star wars.

I don't know.....Revenge of the Sith was a damn good movie. Then again I don't watch movies for the special effects :hah9:

Poet

DeepSleep
04-23-2011, 11:56 PM
The size difference between the two is too much for Floyd. At 135 I could imagine Floyd giving some of the ATG LW's some issues but not the ATG WW's.

studentofthegam
04-23-2011, 11:59 PM
If you are thinking Sam Langford which I suspect you are, it's not. It's Willie Langford, another black fighter.

The point is he crossed the colour line, plenty of times.

So why comment on it, then? If you don't know Harry Greb crossed the colour line then it's obvious you know little about him. So why comment? Why not go out and learn about him instead of just assuming? Then maybe you wouldn't say things like Baldomir would beat him.

Yes, I already stated they could meet at MW in the orginal 8. But again, Greb would have the size advantage......and every other advantage.....



I haven't seen any fights of Harry Greb. There aren't any.

But I don't need footage to know Harry Greb was one of the greatest fighters ever. Nor do I need any to KNOW he would beat Carlos Baldomir.

The guy beat Gene Tunney with one eye! I KNOW he would beat Baldomir.Yeah I was thinking Sam. It isnt the worst assumption in the world because it was the U.S. in 1920. Many black sportsmen didnt get a fair shake in 1920. It could barely even be called freedom. Without watching the fights I cant even take your word that it wasnt any funny business in the fights with blacks he did have. But regardless of that I'll admit when I'm wrong as I did. You may be able to call him great without video. I'll give that much slack but when it comes to fantasy match-ups there is no way to give him the nod over today's fighters. Tall tales wont suffice for that.

Ziggy Stardust
04-24-2011, 12:04 AM
Funny, even while watching today's fights as they happen how do I know there isn't any Don King "funny business" going on? :jerk0ff9:

Poet

Mannie Phresh
04-24-2011, 12:05 AM
I don't know.....Revenge of the Sith was a damn good movie. Then again I don't watch movies for the special effects :hah9:

Poet

you play????

Ziggy Stardust
04-24-2011, 12:08 AM
you play????

Depends on what you mean by "play" :hah9: I used to be an active chess player but I don't think that's what you meant :chuckle9: I don't play any on-line games.

Poet

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 12:10 AM
The truth is, the vast majority of the fighters being touted as "great" today won't even be remembered 10 years from now. That happens in EVERY generation. Hindsight removes the missgiven tag of greatness from the detritus that inevitably gets over-hyped simply because they're active NOW.

PoetPacquiao and Floyd wont be forgotten in ten or even 20. Maybe Martinez or even Mosley will lose their luster after a while. There are always greats that get forgotten too. Holyfield is left off lists many many times. Morales and Barrera are great fighters that have already been written off by the new generation.

The size difference between the two is too much for Floyd. At 135 I could imagine Floyd giving some of the ATG LW's some issues but not the ATG WW's.Their near the same size welters if Floyd doesnt have the edge.

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 12:16 AM
Funny, even while watching today's fights as they happen how do I know there isn't any Don King "funny business" going on? :jerk0ff9:

PoetIts true of this era as well. But we can actually see it for ourselves. Does that dawn on you as a difference. The fixes King put on werent racially mtivated to keep a whole group of people hopeless. Its motivated strictly by the fattening of his pockets. Doesnt make it right but it is a lesser crime IMO. "Or maybe I'm just an angry black dude holding on to the past that wasnt that bad".

Ziggy Stardust
04-24-2011, 12:17 AM
Pacquiao and Floyd wont be forgotten in ten or even 20. Maybe Martinez or even Mosley will lose their luster after a while. There are always greats that get forgotten too. Holyfield is left off lists many many times. Morales and Barrera are great fighters that have already been written off by the new generation.

It wasn't Manny and Floyd I was referring to. Holyfield's being left off lists has more to do with suspected PED use than anything else: If it wasn't for the "Evan Fields" scandal no one of any repute would be leaving him off (for the record he makes mine, #7 all-time at Heavyweight). Morales and Barrera are being written off by idiots: I know of no reputable poster on Boxing Scene that writes them off.

Poet

Steak
04-24-2011, 12:19 AM
I never predict a fight unless I have seen the fighter in action.

however, we HAVE seen who he beat, ie Tunney and Loughran. I dont know about you, but I respect Tunney and his skills. If Greb can beat him even with a size disadvantage, I think its fair to say that he would beat Carlos Baldomir....

on the other hand, I would never feel comfortable saying that Greb would beat ATGs like Hagler, Monzon, Hopkins, etc without seeing him fight.

Ziggy Stardust
04-24-2011, 12:20 AM
Its true of this era as well. But we can actually see it for ourselves. Does that dawn on you as a difference. The fixes King put on werent racially mtivated to keep a whole group of people hopeless. Its motivated strictly by the fattening of his pockets. Doesnt make it right but it is a lesser crime IMO. "Or maybe I'm just an angry black dude holding on to the past that wasnt that bad".

The motivation is irrelivant from a BOXING standpoint.....which is what we're talking about here. Both call into question the integrity of the sport.

Socially, yes there's a difference but that's for another forum.....

Poet

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 12:22 AM
It wasn't Manny and Floyd I was referring to. Holyfield's being left off lists has more to do with suspected PED use than anything else: If it wasn't for the "Evan Fields" scandal no one of any repute would be leaving him off (for the record he makes mine, #7 all-time at Heavyweight). Morales and Barrera are being written off by idiots: I know of no reputable poster on Boxing Scene that writes them off.

PoetI dont know what your list consists of totally. Personally Ive never made a steadfast list for any category or weight class. What fighters do you speak of when you say that fighters are being mislabeled as great?

Mannie Phresh
04-24-2011, 12:22 AM
Depends on what you mean by "play" :hah9: I used to be an active chess player but I don't think that's what you meant :chuckle9: I don't play any on-line games.

Poet

mass effect? the game that matters... lmao

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 12:27 AM
I never predict a fight unless I have seen the fighter in action.

however, we HAVE seen who he beat, ie Tunney and Loughran. I dont know about you, but I respect Tunney and his skills. If Greb can beat him even with a size disadvantage, I think its fair to say that he would beat Carlos Baldomir....

on the other hand, I would never feel comfortable saying that Greb would beat ATGs like Hagler, Monzon, Hopkins, etc without seeing him fight.Fair enough. From what Ive seen I dont feel comfortable saying even Jack Johnson could beat the HW's today. The technique is so different and more effective. So I'm not picking on Greb or anything.

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 12:30 AM
The motivation is irrelivant from a BOXING standpoint.....which is what we're talking about here. Both call into question the integrity of the sport.

Socially, yes there's a difference but that's for another forum.....

PoetForget about the race part since it makes you a bit uncomfortable. Thats not why I'm here. Lets say everyone's purple. Does the fact that we can see it hold a lot more weight than hearsay?

Check_hooks
04-24-2011, 12:32 AM
SRR would win by 1st round KO and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know sh*t about boxing.

Mannie Phresh
04-24-2011, 12:37 AM
SRR would win by 1st round KO and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know sh*t about boxing.

damage control for *******s lol. you guys tried to make this ***** serious lol. then you realized it aint happenin lol.

Ziggy Stardust
04-24-2011, 12:45 AM
I dont know what your list consists of totally. Personally Ive never made a steadfast list for any category or weight class. What fighters do you speak of when you say that fighters are being mislabeled as great?

I'll give you a couple of examples.

Do you know who Duane Bobick is? Bobick was a Heavyweight back in the 1970s. He racked up a 34-0 record and started to generate a buzz.....then he beat Scott LeDoux, who was a solid if unspectacular contender in the mid-70s, and people started talking about him being the next great. Eventually he fought Ken Norton and was KOed in one and mercifully faded into obscurity. Ten years later hardly anyone even remembered he existed.

Now fast-forward to 2011. Victor Ortiz just won a fight over Berto and people in NSB are touting him as the next great again. Now maybe Ortiz WILL pound himself out a decent career from here on out.....or maybe he won't. Regardless, despite how people are touting him the odds are he is NOT going to go down as one of the greats and people won't remember he existed ten years from now.

The point is, in EVERY era, there are people who get proclaimed "great" simply because they are active and are ranked contenders. Most aren't, and most will fade from memory in short order. EVERY era. Today, tomorrow, 50 years ago, doesn't matter. The true greats will stand out. They always do. It's not a matter of "Old Dudes" downing active fighters, it's a matter of hard won experience knowing how things work: To put it bluntly, most of us have "seen this movie before and we know how it ends". The eras may change, but ultimately it's the same 'ol same 'ol. The eras may change but nothing really changes but the date.

I look at the current era and yeah, I've seen this movie before. GJC is many years my elder but I guantee you he saw this movie too.....long before I was born. And eventually you'll look at an era and realize you've seen that movie yourself.

Poet

IronDanHamza
04-24-2011, 12:54 AM
I'll give you a couple of examples.

Do you know who Duane Bobick is? Bobick was a Heavyweight back in the 1970s. He racked up a 34-0 record and started to generate a buzz.....then he beat Scott LeDoux, who was a solid if unspectacular contender in the mid-70s, and people started talking about him being the next great. Eventually he fought Ken Norton and was KOed in one and mercifully faded into obscurity. Ten years later hardly anyone even remembered he existed.

Now fast-forward to 2011. Victor Ortiz just won a fight over Berto and people in NSB are touting as the next great again. Now maybe Ortiz WILL pound himself out a decent career from here on out.....or maybe he won't. Regardless, despite how people are touting him the odds are he is NOT going to go down as one of the greats and people won't remember he existed ten years from now.

The point is, in EVERY era, there are people who get proclaimed "great" simply because they are active and are ranked contenders. Most aren't, and most will fade from memory in short order. EVERY era. Today, tomorrow, 50 years ago, doesn't matter. The true greats will stand out. They always do. It's not a matter of "Old Dudes" downing active fighters, it's a matter of hard won experience knowing how things work: To put it bluntly, most of us have "seen this movie before and we know how it ends". The eras may change, but ultimately it's the same 'ol same 'ol. The eras may change but nothing really changes but the date.

I look at the current era and yeah, I've seen this movie before. GJC is many years my elder but I guantee you he saw this movie too.....long before I was born. And eventually you'll look at an era and realize you've seen that movie too.

Poet

Good post and good examples.

As astonishing as it is, he isn't a young kid. I'm not sure how long he has been following boxing, but he is 30 years old.

He should know better.

Ziggy Stardust
04-24-2011, 12:55 AM
Forget about the race part since it makes you a bit uncomfortable. Thats not why I'm here. Lets say everyone's purple.

I'm not uncomfortable with race I simply consider boxing and the social to be two separate topics.


Does the fact that we can see it hold a lot more weight than hearsay?

Do you consider the theory of relativity to be hearsay? Do haven't seen it work yourself have you? You only have some physicist's word for it afterall.

The truth is film can all to frequently be misleading. Remember when Roy Jones fought Trinidad? He looked spectacular and people were making asinine posts in NSB about how "the old Roy is back!". Roy looked spectacular because he was fighting an opponent who was more washed up then he was. He didn't look so awesome against Calzaghe did he? THE old Roy turned into Old Roy in a hurry when faced with someone with a pulse.
The point being, the video of Roy against Trinidad was misleading and painted a picture that had little bearing on reality.

Poet

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 01:01 AM
damage control for *******s lol. you guys tried to make this ***** serious lol. then you realized it aint happenin lol.its funny, Me and Checks dont agree on a whole bunch but it does seem that when someone says anyone could even compete with SRR no matter what the conversation is about they're considered an idiot.

I'll give you a couple of examples.

Do you know who Duane Bobick is? Bobick was a Heavyweight back in the 1970s. He racked up a 34-0 record and started to generate a buzz.....then he beat Scott LeDoux, who was a solid if unspectacular contender in the mid-70s, and people started talking about him being the next great. Eventually he fought Ken Norton and was KOed in one and mercifully faded into obscurity. Ten years later hardly anyone even remembered he existed.

Now fast-forward to 2011. Victor Ortiz just won a fight over Berto and people in NSB are touting as the next great again. Now maybe Ortiz WILL pound himself out a decent career from here on out.....or maybe he won't. Regardless, despite how people are touting him the odds are he is NOT going to go down as one of the greats and people won't remember he existed ten years from now.

The point is, in EVERY era, there are people who get proclaimed "great" simply because they are active and are ranked contenders. Most aren't, and most will fade from memory in short order. EVERY era. Today, tomorrow, 50 years ago, doesn't matter. The true greats will stand out. They always do. It's not a matter of "Old Dudes" downing active fighters, it's a matter of hard won experience knowing how things work: To put it bluntly, most of us have "seen this movie before and we know how it ends". The eras may change, but ultimately it's the same 'ol same 'ol. The eras may change but nothing really changes but the date.

I look at the current era and yeah, I've seen this movie before. GJC is many years my elder but I guantee you he saw this movie too.....long before I was born. And eventually you'll look at an era and realize you've seen that movie too.

PoetI've seen the movie play out in recent history with the Jermaine Taylor's and Fernando Vargas's. Not saying they werent good fighters but great was used prematurely. Its not the hypes that are being compared that gets the immediate disrespect. It's mostly when sure fire greats are compared to old greats that the debates become somewhat hostile. Anybody who says Ortiz is great right now is to be mocked. He's got a lot of career left to change that though. I just cant take a man's word for it on anything.

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 01:25 AM
Good post and good examples.

As astonishing as it is, he isn't a young kid. I'm not sure how long he has been following boxing, but he is 30 years old.

He should know better.Damn Dan you gonna give me a spankin now? Rub it in good because Im sure it wont be our last difference in opinion.

I'm not uncomfortable with race I simply consider boxing and the social to be two separate topic.I think they go hand in hand depending on the conversation IMO.




Do you consider the theory of relativity to be hearsay? Do haven't seen it work yourself have you? You only have some physicist's word for it afterall.

The truth is film can all to frequently be misleading. Remember when Roy Jones fought Trinidad? He looked spectacular and people were making asinine posts in NSB about how "the old Roy is back!". Roy looked spectacular because he was fighting an opponent who was more washed up then he was. He didn't look so awesome against Calzaghe did he? THE old Roy turned into Old Roy in a hurry when faced with someone with a pulse.
The point being, the video of Roy against Trinidad was misleading and painted a picture that had little bearing on reality.

PoetThe theory of relativity is hearsay. Thats why they call it the "theory" and not the "rule". Science is always subject to change. But if we cant discuss social issues I'm sure science and physics should be considered off base.LOL.

The thing with Roy Jones is that I can go back chronologically and look at both fighters step by step. I agree that it was shot vs less shot.

krazyn8tive
04-24-2011, 01:29 AM
Listen all you idiots..."sugar" ray Robinson won over 120 professional fights before he finally lost one...let me translate into ***** using ***** math...he's at least 3 times the fighter of Floyd mayweather junior. Science.

Ziggy Stardust
04-24-2011, 01:34 AM
The theory of relativity is hearsay. Thats why they call it the "theory" and not the "rule". Science is always subject to change. But if we cant discuss social issues I'm sure science and physics should be considered off base.LOL.

It's an example to illustrate the point. Here's another, I've never been to Russia but I have no doubt it exists.....and any video evidence it exist could, in fact, be hearsay as you don't know if that video's been doctored or shot in Antartica for that matter.

The point being, ANY evidence can be written off.....lawyers do that in court all the time: One of the reasons I have contempt for lawyers.


The thing with Roy Jones is that I can go back chronologically and look at both fighters step by step. I agree that it was shot vs less shot.

In the kingdom of the blind a one-eyed man is king.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
04-24-2011, 01:35 AM
Listen all you idiots..."sugar" ray Robinson won over 120 professional fights before he finally lost one...let me translate into ***** using ***** math...he's at least 3 times the fighter of Floyd mayweather junior. Science.

:hahahaha9::hahahaha9::hahahaha9::hahahaha9:

IronDanHamza
04-24-2011, 01:39 AM
Damn Dan you gonna give me a spankin now? Rub it in good because Im sure it wont be our last difference in opinion.

:lol1: Nah, I'm not. I think that's already occured.

Here's the thing, I don't even mind you. I can see you're not trolling, I can see your intentions are in the right place. And I can see that you're trying to be reasonable.

But take my advice, just go back, sit down, and learn some more. Because if you come in here and say things like 'Baldomir will beat Greb' and 'Floyd Mayweather can beat Sugar Ray Robinson' and 'We don't know how great Greb was because he wouldn't cross the color line' you are going to crucified, honestly.

The things you say simply aren't reasonable. And many of us in this section have been around this sport for multiple decades. And I don't know about others, but the kind of statments you are making bother me.

I'm not trying to be cruel or disrespectful here, I'm just saying obviously you are more than welcome to join in in this section aswell as anyone can, but atleast have a reasonable knowledge of the history before making the brash and baseless statments that you have.

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 01:44 AM
Listen all you idiots..."sugar" ray Robinson won over 120 professional fights before he finally lost one...let me translate into ***** using ***** math...he's at least 3 times the fighter of Floyd mayweather junior. Science.Tell me you aren't a teacher because that would mean Chavez Sr. was over two times the fighter Whitaker was. Try again.

Ziggy Stardust
04-24-2011, 01:47 AM
:lol1: Nah, I'm not. I think that's already occured.

Here's the thing, I don't even mind you. I can see you're not trolling, I can see your intentions are in the right place. And I can see that you're trying to be reasonable.

But take my advice, just go back, sit down, and learn some more. Because if you come in here and say things like 'Baldomir will beat Greb' and 'Floyd Mayweather can beat Sugar Ray Robinson' and 'We don't know how great Greb was because he wouldn't cross the color line' you are going to crucified, honestly.

The things you say simply aren't reasonable. And many of us in this section have been around this sport for multiple decades. And I don't know about others, but the kind of statments you are making bother me.

I'm not trying to be cruel or disrespectful here, I'm just saying obviously you are more than welcome to join in in this section aswell as anyone can, but atleast have a reasonable knowledge of the history before making the brash and baseless statments that you have.

I think I've been reasonable with him tonight: He asked some serious questions that deserved well thought out answers. I hope I answered them satisfactorally. You know it ain't easy for me to switch out of "attack dog" mode into "scholar" mode :hah9:

Poet

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 02:07 AM
It's an example to illustrate the point. Here's another, I've never been to Russia but I have no doubt it exists.....and any video evidence it exist could, in fact, be hearsay as you don't know if that video's been doctored or shot in Antartica for that matter.

The point being, ANY evidence can be written off.....lawyers do that in court all the time: One of the reasons I have contempt for lawyers.




In the kingdom of the blind a one-eyed man is king.

PoetAny written US history can be written off til you dig a little deeper. Thats a fact but I dont want to get off subject. Why the silly saying though. Its just fluff.

:lol1: Nah, I'm not. I think that's already occured.

Here's the thing, I don't even mind you. I can see you're not trolling, I can see your intentions are in the right place. And I can see that you're trying to be reasonable.

But take my advice, just go back, sit down, and learn some more. Because if you come in here and say things like 'Baldomir will beat Greb' and 'Floyd Mayweather can beat Sugar Ray Robinson' and 'We don't know how great Greb was because he wouldn't cross the color line' you are going to crucified, honestly.

The things you say simply aren't reasonable. And many of us in this section have been around this sport for multiple decades. And I don't know about others, but the kind of statments you are making bother me.

I'm not trying to be cruel or disrespectful here, I'm just saying obviously you are more than welcome to join in in this section aswell as anyone can, but atleast have a reasonable knowledge of the history before making the brash and baseless statments that you have.Its no shame in being wrong every blue moon. Atleast not to me. And a reality is you dont mind being disrespectful at all. My feeling dont get hurt. If I learn something in the process of an adult conversation "thanks" and I move on. Besides its been times I've had that ass before so dont get all high and mighty on me.

I think I've been reasonable with him tonight: He asked some serious questions that deserved well thought out answers. I hope I answered them satisfactorally. You know it ain't easy for me to switch out of "attack dog" mode into "scholar" mode :hah9:

PoetI always ask reasonable questions and remain respectful. Its you that throws the tantrums and starts the childish name calling and dodging. Keep it real. Dont put that on me because you got a teammate and you feeling yourself. As far as I'm concerned you haven't added anything to my boxing knowledge since the first conversation we ever had. I can recall you attempting to talk over my head in failed try after failed try.

IronDanHamza
04-24-2011, 02:14 AM
Its no shame in being wrong every blue moon. Atleast not to me. And a reality is you dont mind being disrespectful at all. My feeling dont get hurt. If I learn something in the process of an adult conversation "thanks" and I move on. Besides its been times I've had that ass before so dont get all high and mighty on me.

Like I just stated. When you say the things you say which is a clear lack of knowledge, it bothers me. So yeah, I may be disrespectful off the cuff like that. But again, as I just stated, I'm not trying to be disrespectful... It seems you aren't comprehending the post.

I'm not sure I understand that last sentance so I'm just going to choose to ignore it.

I'm not getting high and mighty on you...I'm giving you simple words of advice from a regular poster in this section to a new one. Take it or leave it.

PunchesNbuncheS
04-24-2011, 02:19 AM
Tell me you're playing! You gotta be kidding me. Floyd would be lucky to make it till the end of the fight. Robinson walks through everything Floyd throws at him and just beats him down. Shoulder rolls don't work against a guy with one punch KO power in either hand who throws 4 or 5 punch combinations to the body with full power behind them and then finishes with left hooks.

Robinson had an iron chin,speed,one punch KO power in both hands, stamina, could box, could brawl, could counter, & had the killer instinct of a pitbull so there's no way in hell that Floyd beats him.

He gets stopped brutally cause Robinson would beat him to the body, the chest, the arms, elbows, shoulders, face, everywhere, he would just maul him!

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 02:22 AM
Like I just stated. When you say the things you say which is a clear lack of knowledge, it bothers me. So yeah, I may be disrespectful off the cuff like that. But again, as I just stated, I'm not trying to be disrespectful... It seems you aren't comprehending the post.

I'm not sure I understand that last sentance so I'm just going to choose to ignore it.

I'm not getting high and mighty on you...I'm giving you simple words of advice from a regular poster in this section to a new one. Take it or leave it.Thank you buddy. But if I comprehend correctly then what you're telling me is that you dont have any thought process that comes between having a disrespectful thought and typing those keys on the computer. Its just automatic. But its cool. I have given respect to you where its due and challenged on the things I dont agree with. I'll continue to do both. peace.

Ziggy Stardust
04-24-2011, 02:28 AM
Any written US history can be written off til you dig a little deeper. Thats a fact but I dont want to get off subject. Why the silly saying though. Its just fluff.

Its no shame in being wrong every blue moon. Atleast not to me. And a reality is you dont mind being disrespectful at all. My feeling dont get hurt. If I learn something in the process of an adult conversation "thanks" and I move on. Besides its been times I've had that ass before so dont get all high and mighty on me.

I always ask reasonable questions and remain respectful. Its you that throws the tantrums and starts the childish name calling and dodging. Keep it real. Dont put that on me because you got a teammate and you feeling yourself. As far as I'm concerned you haven't added anything to my boxing knowledge since the first conversation we ever had. I can recall you attempting to talk over my head in failed try after failed try.

:rolleyes9: Hey IronDan? Next time I get it into my head to take the time to take guys like these seriously please remind me that it's a pointless and thankless endeavour :rolleyes9:

Poet

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 02:35 AM
:rolleyes9: Hey IronDan? Next time I get it into my head to take the time to take guys like these seriously please remind me that it's a pointless and thankless endeavour :rolleyes9:

PoetYou're not as bright as you think you are and your examples are always horrible so what are you hangin your hat on friend.

IronDanHamza
04-24-2011, 02:38 AM
:rolleyes9: Hey IronDan? Next time I get it into my head to take the time to take guys like these seriously please remind me that it's a pointless and thankless endeavour :rolleyes9:

Poet

:lol1: :lol1:

Will do, bro.

We should put this to bed now. He has taken enough for today.

Ziggy Stardust
04-24-2011, 02:41 AM
:lol1: :lol1:

Will do, bro.

We should put this to bed now. He has taken enough for today.

Yeah, after that little exchange I've pretty much decided he's a troll and can be safely and permanently relagated to "non-person" status. Regard my oxygen thief list :chuckle9:

Poet

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 02:44 AM
:lol1: :lol1:

Will do, bro.

We should put this to bed now. He has taken enough for today.Well Dan if you think of this childish ass man as some kinda elite here on boxing history then I wont waist anymore of my time, your time or his worthless time anymore either. I have to look at it as birds of a feather now.

JAB5239
04-24-2011, 04:23 AM
You're not as bright as you think you are and your examples are always horrible so what are you hangin your hat on friend.

Actually when Poet focus's on talking boxing he is very astute and knowledgeable, easily one of the best posters here. Doesn't mean I always agree with him, but he knows his **** more than most.

TouchyAndalou
04-24-2011, 07:36 AM
The theory of relativity is hearsay. Thats why they call it the "theory" and not the "rule".The same goes for the theory of gravity. That's why they call it a theory, right? I suggest you jump off a very high building to test it out.

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 11:25 AM
The same goes for the theory of gravity. That's why they call it a theory, right? I suggest you jump off a very high building to test it out.Dont be a jackass. Its properties arent always true either considering this planet is said to be suspended in space and revolving around the sun. You should mind your business.

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 11:28 AM
Actually when Poet focus's on talking boxing he is very astute and knowledgeable, easily one of the best posters here. Doesn't mean I always agree with him, but he knows his **** more than most.That may be true when he focuses on boxing. But when I speak with him he has a hard time focusing and thats my issue. He cant talk that troll stuff and then insert an insult here and there and think I assume he's smart based on that.

JAB5239
04-24-2011, 11:39 AM
That may be true when he focuses on boxing. But when I speak with him he has a hard time focusing and thats my issue. He cant talk that troll stuff and then insert an insult here and there and think I assume he's smart based on that.

The problem is he has spoken with much insight and knowledge in THIS thread and then you made the comment "You're not as bright as you think you are and your examples are always horrible so what are you hangin your hat on friend." so you don't like his insults? Neither do I. That doesn't take away what he has conveyed in this thread if you have kept an open mind.

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 02:55 PM
The problem is he has spoken with much insight and knowledge in THIS thread and then you made the comment "You're not as bright as you think you are and your examples are always horrible so what are you hangin your hat on friend." so you don't like his insults? Neither do I. That doesn't take away what he has conveyed in this thread if you have kept an open mind. Please point out the great gems he dropped me. I guess you can start with the "retard" response. LMAO. You nor anybody else can defend this silly man to me because it isnt the first time and probably wont be the last. Moving right along.

JAB5239
04-24-2011, 03:28 PM
Please point out the great gems he dropped me. I guess you can start with the "retard" response. LMAO. You nor anybody else can defend this silly man to me because it isnt the first time and probably wont be the last. Moving right along.

"Please point out the great gems he dropped me, name the black fighters Harry Greb fought". You ask a lot but give nothing in return.

Why don't you go back and check posts 95, 105, 107, 120 but especially posts 114 and 116 which were excellent and something you should have learned from if you kept an open mind.

young_robbed
04-24-2011, 03:37 PM
My god.
I can garuntee Floyd would not beat SRR at ALL.
Dude would be knocked out in 8 rounds.
What has Floyd done to make you guys think Floyd would beat Robinson?
Beat Judah, Baldomir, Mosley, Castillo, Marquez, Corrales, and Agustus?
PLEASE. These guys don't compare to SRR. While SRR has plenty of solid names all over his resume...
Just a different class here. period.

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 04:27 PM
"Please point out the great gems he dropped me, name the black fighters Harry Greb fought". You ask a lot but give nothing in return.

Why don't you go back and check posts 95, 105, 107, 120 but especially posts 114 and 116 which were excellent and something you should have learned from if you kept an open mind.Well 2 of them were decent responses that I agreed with mostly but no lessons learned. Two were just metaphoric fluff. Not anything to do with boxing. He didnt wanna talk about the social aspect of boxing but somehow Einstein is a proper topic. And all came after the childish name calling. So we're getting nowhere. As a grown ass man I can disagree with the most absurd post and not refer to a man as anything but his screen name. So give up defending your childish homeboy. You can exchange BS with him and I'll keep it moving. Does that sound like a deal?

JAB5239
04-24-2011, 04:38 PM
Well 2 of them were decent responses that I agreed with mostly but no lessons learned. Two were just metaphoric fluff. Not anything to do with boxing. He didnt wanna talk about the social aspect of boxing but somehow Einstein is a proper topic. And all came after the childish name calling. So we're getting nowhere. As a grown ass man I can disagree with the most absurd post and not refer to a man as anything but his screen name. So give up defending your childish homeboy. You can exchange BS with him and I'll keep it moving. Does that sound like a deal?

:lol1: Sounds like a great idea! You can keep it moving right back to NSB.

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 05:07 PM
We erasing things now? Great day in the morning.

JAB5239
04-24-2011, 05:11 PM
We erasing things now? Great day in the morning.

Troll posts will be erased. If they continue you will be removed. :dunno:

studentofthegam
04-24-2011, 05:32 PM
Troll posts will be erased. If they continue you will be removed. :dunno:Thats supremely silly when I havent been dishing out names and done nothing but answer each post on subject until someone else changes the topic. You can erase post, and red K til your hearts content but I dont participate in ass kissing contest.

JAB5239
04-24-2011, 05:36 PM
Thats supremely silly when I havent been dishing out names and done nothing but answer each post on subject until someone else changes the topic. You can erase post, and red K til your hearts content but I dont participate in ass kissing contest.

It was a troll post. Just let it go.

Suarez7
04-24-2011, 05:43 PM
If Robinson was around today would Floyd actually fight him?

Lets be real here, Floyd won't fight anyone that is a threat. The guy has so much talent and skills but is not prepared to fight the best out there to prove himself.

Sad in a way, and all people do is make "Fantasy fights" with Floyd.

Monte Fisto
04-24-2011, 05:50 PM
SRR wins this one w/ authority.Enuff said !

SCtrojansbaby
04-24-2011, 08:24 PM
If Robinson was around today would Floyd actually fight him?

Lets be real here, Floyd won't fight anyone that is a threat. The guy has so much talent and skills but is not prepared to fight the best out there to prove himself.

Sad in a way, and all people do is make "Fantasy fights" with Floyd.


LOL its funny how you bring up Fantasy fights because all you can do with Ray Robinson is guess because you have only seen the 8 of his fights that are on youtube. Most of these great wins you have never even seen

DeepSleep
04-24-2011, 09:30 PM
LOL its funny how you bring up Fantasy fights because all you can do with Ray Robinson is guess because you have only seen the 8 of his fights that are on youtube. Most of these great wins you have never even seen

What great wins from Floyd have you seen at WW?

His win over a puffed up JMM?

Or perhaps his win over a puffed up Hatton?

Why of course it must be his win over a 4,973 year old Mosley?

I can watch just as many of Floyd's wins at 147 over excellent WW's as SRR's which is 0 wins.

SCtrojansbaby
04-24-2011, 09:44 PM
What great wins from Floyd have you seen at WW?

His win over a puffed up JMM?

Or perhaps his win over a puffed up Hatton?

Why of course it must be his win over a 4,973 year old Mosley?

I can watch just as many of Floyd's wins at 147 over excellent WW's as SRR's which is 0 wins.


The point is rating or comparing guys who you have only seen a few times in mostly crappy quality on youtube to modern fighters is retarded

kendom
05-25-2011, 06:36 AM
But thats the problem isnt it? boxing hasnt evolved since the 1940s it devolved. Theres no evidence at all to prove that boxing has in any way evolved from that time its just an assumpion ppl make. Castillo was able to give mayweather problems by being aggressive, in a fight with Mayweather Robinson would act as the aggressor and neutralize Mayweather, just because Robinson had a graceful style doesnt mean he couldnt fight the aggressor, thats why Robinson is considered the greatest p4p fighter ever, because he was so versatile.

Rip Chudd
05-25-2011, 06:43 AM
LOL, Wow. There are no words for this.

SBleeder
05-25-2011, 06:46 AM
But thats the problem isnt it? boxing hasnt evolved since the 1940s it devolved. Theres no evidence at all to prove that boxing has in any way evolved from that time its just an assumpion ppl make. Castillo was able to give mayweather problems by being aggressive, in a fight with Mayweather Robinson would act as the aggressor and neutralize Mayweather, just because Robinson had a graceful style doesnt mean he couldnt fight the aggressor, thats why Robinson is considered the greatest p4p fighter ever, because he was so versatile.

Modern fighters have the benefits of scientific, futuristic methods like hitting a heavy bag, sparring, and skipping rope.

nelsoncm
05-25-2011, 06:56 AM
You can make the arguement that Ray is the greater fighter based on their resumes (at this point in Mayweathers career), but skill for skill Mayweather is the better fighter. Ray never would've been able to solve Mayweathers defense and Floyd would've countered the **** out of him all fight. People have a tendency to rank fighters of the past higher for sentimental reasons but the reality is boxing has evolved since the 40's.

I'm still confident Floyd will be ranked higher on most peoples ATG lists after he retires but if todays version of Floyd fought Ray Robinson at WW who do you think would win?

Floyd is still the GOAT in fantasy matches.

TBear
05-25-2011, 07:10 AM
One of the funniest threads there is! Did you hear the one........

kendom
05-25-2011, 07:21 AM
But past fighters used these things as well i once saw a video of jack Dempsey hitting a heavy bag, fighters in the past trained in all those ways you just described and when im talking about evidence of boxing evolving i mean the actual ART of boxing itself, what could boxers do now that boxers in the past couldn't? run faster?

JAB5239
05-25-2011, 07:27 AM
But past fighters used these things as well i once saw a video of jack Dempsey hitting a heavy bag, fighters in the past trained in all those ways you just described and when im talking about evidence of boxing evolving i mean the actual ART of boxing itself, what could boxers do now that boxers in the past couldn't? run faster?

He was being facetious, my man.

studentofthegam
05-25-2011, 12:44 PM
But thats the problem isnt it? boxing hasnt evolved since the 1940s it devolved. Theres no evidence at all to prove that boxing has in any way evolved from that time its just an assumpion ppl make. Castillo was able to give mayweather problems by being aggressive, in a fight with Mayweather Robinson would act as the aggressor and neutralize Mayweather, just because Robinson had a graceful style doesnt mean he couldnt fight the aggressor, thats why Robinson is considered the greatest p4p fighter ever, because he was so versatile.What about the "Fight of the Bumble Bee" sparring session of Greb? Its laughable.

JAB5239
05-25-2011, 01:18 PM
What about the "Fight of the Bumble Bee" sparring session of Greb? Its laughable.

Have you seen Loughran, Gibbons, Tunney, Flowers and Notfolk fight? Greb beat those fighters. Is that laughable?

studentofthegam
05-25-2011, 01:22 PM
Have you seen Loughran, Gibbons, Tunney, Flowers and Notfolk fight? Greb beat those fighters. Is that laughable?Im just saying, If you posted a clip of Cotto sparring like that it would be a big joke even in the prestigious history section. Am I right? No one in 2011 would train like that and we all know it.

JAB5239
05-25-2011, 01:52 PM
Im just saying, If you posted a clip of Cotto sparring like that it would be a big joke even in the prestigious history section. Am I right? No one in 2011 would train like that and we all know it.

We also know that NO ONE in 2011 would dare fight as often as Greb and against the same type of comp. Am I right?

Steak
05-25-2011, 03:03 PM
training videos can be misleading. example...
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yU3BpXNCyL4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

just looks hilarious. but Calzaghe is still one of the better fighters of the last 10 years. or we could look at Mayweather losing in sparring against Spadafora.

point is, even those full training videos are incredibly misleading. tie in the fact that Greb was goign easy against an old man, that youre only seeing 40 seconds of video, that the video quality is bad, and that most of the actual sparring clip was actually just them kind of grappling and Greb wasnt throwing even close to his hardest punches...well, get my point?

you can even see Greb laughing in that 40 second clip.

that being said, I NEVER predict any hypothetical match involving Greb. I simply cannot pretend that I know he would win a match(unless he was faced against some obviously worse competition) without seeing him actualy fight.

Barnburner
05-25-2011, 03:06 PM
Im just saying, If you posted a clip of Cotto sparring like that it would be a big joke even in the prestigious history section. Am I right? No one in 2011 would train like that and we all know it.
Only problem is he's playing around, not training.

kendom
05-25-2011, 03:14 PM
What about the "Fight of the Bumble Bee" sparring session of Greb? Its laughable.
Its a sparring session between friends how can you judge Greb on that? anyway Greb didnt fight like that according to boxing historians and experts he had an overwhelming swarming style similar to henry armstrong and unending stamina, one fighter described fighting Greb as if fighting an octopus

IronDanHamza
05-25-2011, 04:12 PM
training videos can be misleading. example...
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yU3BpXNCyL4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

just looks hilarious. but Calzaghe is still one of the better fighters of the last 10 years. or we could look at Mayweather losing in sparring against Spadafora.

point is, even those full training videos are incredibly misleading. tie in the fact that Greb was goign easy against an old man, that youre only seeing 40 seconds of video, that the video quality is bad, and that most of the actual sparring clip was actually just them kind of grappling and Greb wasnt throwing even close to his hardest punches...well, get my point?

you can even see Greb laughing in that 40 second clip.

that being said, I NEVER predict any hypothetical match involving Greb. I simply cannot pretend that I know he would win a match(unless he was faced against some obviously worse competition) without seeing him actualy fight.

I have pretty much said exactly this before.

studentofthegam
05-25-2011, 07:29 PM
Nobody ever told me it was a joke before. Now I get it. Jab you're right, nobody has that many rematches anymore. Try doing what Calzaghe did and you can see where it could help endurance. It would make your arms like jello right after so its no where near as ridiculous.

Spartacus Sully
05-26-2011, 12:51 AM
What about the "Fight of the Bumble Bee" sparring session of Greb? Its laughable.

i found the sparring session to be an impressive display of parrying blocking slipping tieing up defense on the inside and picking shots, theres also some pretty decent footwork on display as well.

have you even watched the sparring video or do you just deem anything thats in black and white waste of time?

or do you just know nothing of the sport of boxing, in which case why do you even waste your time watching it?

this is greb against philly jack o'brien...im sure cotto would look much worse against 44-47 yo SRL reguardless of the style cotto fights with.....cotto would be younger so im sure he could outlast SRL but for a 45 second - 1 min clip SRL is going to clown on him hard.

for a self proclaimed student of the game you really dont know that much about it.

F l i c k e r
05-26-2011, 01:14 AM
No. Lets be really honest.

It would be a 50/50 fight. It could literally go either way. SRR was a big WW but Floyd's intelligence is quite possibly bar none in the ring. So it would be a very tough fight to call.

SRR
SRL
FMJ

All three guys could beat anyone from any generation p4p and if not it would be a razor thin controversial loss.

JAB5239
05-26-2011, 01:18 AM
No. Lets be really honest.

It would be a 50/50 fight. It could literally go either way. SRR was a big WW but Floyd's intelligence is quite possibly bar none in the ring. So it would be a very tough fight to call.

SRR
SRL
FMJ

All three guys could beat anyone from any generation p4p and if not it would be a razor thin controversial loss.

With all due respect, I don't think Floyd has proved a thing at welterweight to even be compared to SRR and SRL, let alone given a 50/50 chance of beating them.

cooper5
05-26-2011, 01:50 AM
I doubt Floyd would beat Jake LaMotta, and if Lamotta was a contender when Mayweather was champion, he would have not fought him either!

F l i c k e r
05-26-2011, 02:53 AM
With all due respect, I don't think Floyd has proved a thing at welterweight to even be compared to SRR and SRL, let alone given a 50/50 chance of beating them.

I think his intelligence, ring control, adaptability, unquestionable accuracy, timing and elusiveness would warrant his ability to handle himself against them and anyone p4p for that matter.

He would either lose spectacular or win by what some people may call 'boring' decision.

I think SRL would pose the most problems. Where some may not like this, I think Floyd would be able to adapt and time SRR accordingly to win by decision. Where SRL I think would be much more difficult because he is more than willing to not stay in front of you and make you chase him around the ring.

DR.ORGYY
05-26-2011, 03:00 AM
mayweather would win imo.....

JAB5239
05-26-2011, 03:02 AM
I think his intelligence, ring control, adaptability, unquestionable accuracy, timing and elusiveness would warrant his ability to handle himself against them and anyone p4p for that matter.

He would either lose spectacular or win by what some people may call 'boring' decision.

I think SRL would pose the most problems. Where some may not like this, I think Floyd would be able to adapt and time SRR accordingly to win by decision. Where SRL I think would be much more difficult because he is more than willing to not stay in front of you and make you chase him around the ring.

I'll respectfully disagree and leave this debate to others, but before I go....Tommy Hearns would be Floyd's worst nightmare!

Spartacus Sully
05-26-2011, 03:22 AM
I think his intelligence, ring control, adaptability, unquestionable accuracy, timing and elusiveness would warrant his ability to handle himself against them and anyone p4p for that matter.

He would either lose spectacular or win by what some people may call 'boring' decision.

I think SRL would pose the most problems. Where some may not like this, I think Floyd would be able to adapt and time SRR accordingly to win by decision. Where SRL I think would be much more difficult because he is more than willing to not stay in front of you and make you chase him around the ring.

all you need to beat floyd is a tucked chin and some semblence of skill. had gatti been a few years younger and kept his chin tucked to the later rounds he probly would have won.

the only thing floyd can do is shell up and land overhand rights. SRR would keep his chin tucked while he out jabs floyd and lands devestating blows while floyd only has his shoulder to protect his chin.

just like this over and over again:
http://pacquiaoandmosley.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Shane-Mosley-hit-Mayweather-with-right-hand.jpg


cept SRR would have his left up and his chin tucked more.

SRR would have no poblem timing floyds reactions to his jabs in the shell, and dismanteling it with his right hand and hooks.

chiguy91
05-26-2011, 03:38 AM
thing about these comparisons is that they're hard to determine due to the gap of time in terms of dieting, training, and techniques. i'm pretty sure mayweather watched robinson and leonard as a kid, so robinson basically paved the way on how to fight for these younger guys. as time went on, everything around them advanced, therefore mayweather is more skilled/fit than robinson could've thought was do-able. but even that, i don't think mayweather would be able to hurt robinson to the point where robinson wouldn't get his shots in and win the fight. just my opinion though....

titanium
05-26-2011, 06:24 AM
Floyd could not have beaten Ray Leonard, Hearns and Duran.

studentofthegam
05-26-2011, 09:24 AM
i found the sparring session to be an impressive display of parrying blocking slipping tieing up defense on the inside and picking shots, theres also some pretty decent footwork on display as well.

have you even watched the sparring video or do you just deem anything thats in black and white waste of time?

or do you just know nothing of the sport of boxing, in which case why do you even waste your time watching it?

this is greb against philly jack o'brien...im sure cotto would look much worse against 44-47 yo SRL reguardless of the style cotto fights with.....cotto would be younger so im sure he could outlast SRL but for a 45 second - 1 min clip SRL is going to clown on him hard.

for a self proclaimed student of the game you really dont know that much about it.LMAO. Good try man but there is no way thats not a hilarious vid. It may have been good training for judo but not boxing.

all you need to beat floyd is a tucked chin and some semblence of skill. had gatti been a few years younger and kept his chin tucked to the later rounds he probly would have won.

the only thing floyd can do is shell up and land overhand rights. SRR would keep his chin tucked while he out jabs floyd and lands devestating blows while floyd only has his shoulder to protect his chin.

just like this over and over again:
http://pacquiaoandmosley.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Shane-Mosley-hit-Mayweather-with-right-hand.jpg


cept SRR would have his left up and his chin tucked more.

SRR would have no poblem timing floyds reactions to his jabs in the shell, and dismanteling it with his right hand and hooks.As much as I am "in the dark" about black and white, you are way more in the dark about in living color. No version of Gatti beats Floyd. He knew it too. All Floyd can do is shell up and land overhand rights? My God. If I said something this dumb the basement boys would have jump all over it. They are no where to be found. I guess because they would be forced to defend Floyd. We all know thats a no no.

IronDanHamza
05-26-2011, 10:45 AM
all you need to beat floyd is a tucked chin and some semblence of skill. had gatti been a few years younger and kept his chin tucked to the later rounds he probly would have won.
the only thing floyd can do is shell up and land overhand rights. SRR would keep his chin tucked while he out jabs floyd and lands devestating blows while floyd only has his shoulder to protect his chin.

just like this over and over again:
http://pacquiaoandmosley.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Shane-Mosley-hit-Mayweather-with-right-hand.jpg


cept SRR would have his left up and his chin tucked more.

SRR would have no poblem timing floyds reactions to his jabs in the shell, and dismanteling it with his right hand and hooks.

Come on now, let's not go that far.

No version of Arturo Gatti ever, ever, beats Floyd Mayweather Jr. Ever.

Walt Liquor
05-26-2011, 11:03 AM
floyds "ring IQ" is better than SRL? Who had 200 fights?

The only reason you fool think floyd is so easy to solve is because he fights guys that are simple. I mean, how hard did shanre really try after he smashed floyd? You think SRL wouldn't land that punch and finish?


This thread is ignorant and hilarious at the same time.

SRR by brutal KO

studentofthegam
05-26-2011, 11:15 AM
floyds "ring IQ" is better than SRL? Who had 200 fights?

The only reason you fool think floyd is so easy to solve is because he fights guys that are simple. I mean, how hard did shanre really try after he smashed floyd? You think SRL wouldn't land that punch and finish?


This thread is ignorant and hilarious at the same time.

SRR by brutal KOI do remember a time you said that if Floyd beats.....Not beats but even fights Shane you'd give him some props. What happened? Floyd has a chance against anyone in history. His res is not padded. Yes there are fights even I feel he could have taken to ease the criticism but you making this statement proves his "Damned if you do, Damned if you dont" theory to be a bit true. But hey there are no extra points for consistency on here.

Spartacus Sully
05-26-2011, 11:56 AM
Come on now, let's not go that far.

No version of Arturo Gatti ever, ever, beats Floyd Mayweather Jr. Ever.

sorry about that watched the fights again, i was actually thinking de la hoya

Spartacus Sully
05-26-2011, 12:00 PM
LMAO. Good try man but there is no way thats not a hilarious vid. It may have been good training for judo but not boxing.


quite a quality video, you can even see greb throw a falling step right with the last punch greb throws, just like the right that Marciano koed wallcott with.

though alittle low, he clearly didnt want to knock the old man out and was mainly going for body shots. hell though the whole 44 seconds he throws 1 punch to his head .

TheHolyCross
05-26-2011, 12:06 PM
floyds "ring IQ" is better than SRL? Who had 200 fights?

The only reason you fool think floyd is so easy to solve is because he fights guys that are simple. I mean, how hard did shanre really try after he smashed floyd? You think SRL wouldn't land that punch and finish?


This thread is ignorant and hilarious at the same time.

SRR by brutal KO

speaking of simple, who did robinson fight that was as crafty, slick and fast as floyd mayweather jr.?

robinson would get worked

robinson and mosley, are like one in the same person, i swear it

although unlike shane, robinson sure ducked alot more

JAB5239
05-26-2011, 12:32 PM
speaking of simple, who did robinson fight that was as crafty, slick and fast as floyd mayweather jr.?

Kid Gavilan

TheHolyCross
05-26-2011, 12:55 PM
Kid Gavilan

not seeing it, in my opinion floyd's style comes closer to turpin

dont you?

JAB5239
05-26-2011, 01:11 PM
not seeing it, in my opinion floyd's style comes closer to turpin

dont you?

You asked who's style was crafty, slick and fast. Do you not consider Gavilan all of those things?

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/imPJLHLt5EM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TheHolyCross
05-26-2011, 01:19 PM
You asked who's style was crafty, slick and fast. Do you not consider Gavilan all of those things?

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/imPJLHLt5EM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
i asked "as crafty, slick and fast as floyd mayweather jr."
so no
i dont consider him as fast, or as slick, as floyd

JAB5239
05-26-2011, 01:33 PM
i asked "as crafty, slick and fast as floyd mayweather jr."
so no
i dont consider him as fast, or as slick, as floyd

If thats your opinion than fair enough. But we know he was braver, bolder and more willing to fight the best, compared to Floyd.

Spartacus Sully
05-26-2011, 02:15 PM
i asked "as crafty, slick and fast as floyd mayweather jr."
so no
i dont consider him as fast, or as slick, as floyd

yet you think Sugar shane mosely is the same person as srr?

clearly your opinion of whos similar to who is lacking.

TheHolyCross
05-26-2011, 02:21 PM
yet you think Sugar shane mosely is the same person as ssr?

clearly your opinion of whos similar to who is lacking.

lol, no, im just saying their styles are very kindred/alike/comparable

Spartacus Sully
05-26-2011, 02:24 PM
lol, no, im just saying their styles are very kindred

a few posts ago you swore they were the same person....

Sugar Shane has no where near the power, speed, defense, or skill set that Robinson had.

has floyd ever fought any one like srr? No, and he never will.

TheHolyCross
05-26-2011, 02:33 PM
a few posts ago you swore they were the same person....
it was a metaphor/simile/figure of speech, obviously, lol


Sugar Shane has no where near the power, speed, defense, or skill set that Robinson had.

has floyd ever fought any one like srr? No.

you might be overrating robinson here friend.
and ofcourse there are the subtle things that just make robinson the better fighter like his inside game being better

all in all, from my perspective, they seem eerily similar

so if you're asking me if floyd has ever fought someone like srr, in my opinion yes, he has

Spartacus Sully
05-26-2011, 02:49 PM
it was a metaphor/simile/figure of speech, obviously, lol




you might be overrating robinson here friend.
and ofcourse there are the subtle things that just make robinson the better fighter like his inside game being better

all in all, from my perspective, they seem eerily similar

so if you're asking me if floyd has ever fought someone like srr, in my opinion yes, he has

i realize you were making a what ever the one is where you dont use like or as, im not an idiot. Im saying that in the sense you used it is absurd and any credit you might of had for your opinion of who is similar to who went out the window.

overrating? maybe if i was comparing him to some one who wasnt sugar shane mosely, or a prime sugar shane mosely but the mosely floyd fought....in no way am i overrating SRR.

and theres more then just inside game, theres better foot work faster foot work, better right hand guard, better parrying, faster jab sharper jab more accurate jab, better endurance, more power in any single punch, and faster combos with more power in the combos.

i'm done, you can go make your opinions all day, but in my opinion your opinion is worthless.

TheHolyCross
05-26-2011, 03:08 PM
i realize you were making a what ever the one is where you dont use like or as, im not an idiot. Im saying that in the sense you used it is absurd and any credit you might of had for your opinion of who is similar to who went out the window.

overrating? maybe if i was comparing him to some one who wasnt sugar shane mosely, or a prime sugar shane mosely but the mosely floyd fought....in no way am i overrating SRR.

and theres more then just inside game, theres better foot work faster foot work, better right hand guard, better parrying, faster jab sharper jab more accurate jab, better endurance, more power in any single punch, and faster combos with more power in the combos.

i'm done, you can go make your opinions all day, but in my opinion your opinion is worthless.
@ bold, that would be a simile, but the word i was looking for was analogy, just slipped my mind

oh and regarding the whole "in my opinion your opinion is worthless."
i feel the same about your opinions, to me they are the opinions of a narrow minded, biased individual

and the whole
robinson's speed > mosley's speed
robinson's power > mosley's power

these are NOT FACTs friend, and you shouldn't go around harping and crying like a baby when someone disagrees

bye

Spartacus Sully
05-26-2011, 03:20 PM
@ bold, that would be a simile, but the word i was looking for was analogy, just slipped my mind

oh and regarding the whole "in my opinion your opinion is worthless."
i feel the same about your opinions, to me they are the opinions of a narrow minded, biased individual

and the whole
robinson's speed > mosley's speed
robinson's power > mosley's power

these are NOT FACTs friend, and you shouldn't go around harping and crying like a baby when someone disagrees

bye

wah wah

watch a 28 yo welter weight mosely vs hoya and then watch and 36 yo past prime middle weight SSR vs basilio and tell me it isnt fact.

watch a 36 yo SRR ko gene fulmer with 1 punch and tell me it isnt fact.

young_robbed
05-26-2011, 03:21 PM
lol, no, im just saying their styles are very kindred/alike/comparable

no they don't compare since SRR is just on a higher level infact you could even say its lubricious to compare them id say that

F l i c k e r
05-26-2011, 06:07 PM
I'll respectfully disagree and leave this debate to others, but before I go....Tommy Hearns would be Floyd's worst nightmare!

It's all good.

I just think the "mind-set" of past boxing decades would be the fall of SRR in a fight with Floyd. SRR doesn't avoid contact in the ring, he is fast and powerful but will he retreat and circle around the ring riding on the point spread? Nope. And with that warrior mentality, I think he would lose because Floyd would be more than willing to avoid him.

I agree with Tommy Hearns though. I have been saying that in NSB forever now.

all you need to beat floyd is a tucked chin and some semblence of skill. had gatti been a few years younger and kept his chin tucked to the later rounds he probly would have won.

the only thing floyd can do is shell up and land overhand rights. SRR would keep his chin tucked while he out jabs floyd and lands devestating blows while floyd only has his shoulder to protect his chin.

cept SRR would have his left up and his chin tucked more.

SRR would have no poblem timing floyds reactions to his jabs in the shell, and dismanteling it with his right hand and hooks.


lol, no. Floyd doesn't only use the shell. That would be like me saying, "All SRR had was the left hook, if Floyd avoids and times that, SRR gets his ass whooped."

SRR was fast and powerful but he liked to stay in your face with that old school boxing warrior mentality. As soon as Floyd gets up on the cards he would have SRR chase him around the ring the whole fight, pot shotting to a victory.

You can't do that against SRL. He can be in your face ala Hearns or avoid you ala Duran 2.

F l i c k e r
05-26-2011, 06:11 PM
wah wah

watch a 28 yo welter weight mosely vs hoya and then watch and 36 yo past prime middle weight SSR vs basilio and tell me it isnt fact.

watch a 36 yo SRR ko gene fulmer with 1 punch and tell me it isnt fact.


SRR is superior to Mosley. However they share the same style. Mosley mirrored SRR's style but just doesn't have the same physical gifts.

TheHolyCross
05-26-2011, 06:42 PM
wah wah

watch a 28 yo welter weight mosely vs hoya and then watch and 36 yo past prime middle weight SSR vs basilio and tell me it isnt fact.

watch a 36 yo SRR ko gene fulmer with 1 punch and tell me it isnt fact.

sure, should i watch the sped up HD version, or the real time footage for the basilio fight?

Ziggy Stardust
05-26-2011, 07:08 PM
No one is going to "pot shot" their way to victory over Robinson. You can get away with BS against the inferior scrubs an past-it former champions that Floyd's been fighting, against one of the greats that just gets you a points loss. Old football saying: The only thing the prevent defense prevents is YOU from winning.

Poet

IronDanHamza
05-26-2011, 07:22 PM
Floyd Mayweather does not beat Sugar Ray Robinson. He loses 10 times out of 10.

/thread.

Ziggy Stardust
05-26-2011, 07:29 PM
Floyd Mayweather does not beat Sugar Ray Robinson. He loses 10 times out of 10.

/thread.

Oh but didn't you know today's fighters like Floyd Mayweather and Wlad Klitschko have discovered these previously unheard of and revolutionary in-ring tactics that easily beat all those crude tactics that the previous generations of fighters used? :rofl9: Just ask F l i c k e r :rofl9: :rofl9: :rofl9:

Poet

IronDanHamza
05-26-2011, 07:52 PM
Oh but didn't you know today's fighters like Floyd Mayweather and Wlad Klitschko have discovered these previously unheard of and revolutionary in-ring tactics that easily beat all those crude tactics that the previous generations of fighters used? :rofl9: Just ask F l i c k e r :rofl9: :rofl9: :rofl9:

Poet

:lol1: :lol1:

I did have a little chuckle at that.

I mean, the crude tactics so to speak back then was lightyears higher than what we have now.

People always say "Can you imagine Robinson in this era"

My response to that is; Can you imagine Mayweather in that era??? He would be ridiculously uncomfortable.

Ref's are immensely more soft in recent history.

Spartacus Sully
05-27-2011, 02:27 AM
sure, should i watch the sped up HD version, or the real time footage for the basilio fight?

either or, as far as i can tell they are the same speed.

i can PM paciofable and see if it acutally is sped up, unless you can provide some proof that it is.

TheHolyCross
05-27-2011, 06:30 AM
either or, as far as i can tell they are the same speed.

i can PM paciofable and see if it acutally is sped up, unless you can provide some proof that it is.
no, you're right it's not sped up
embarrasing, i thought i clearly saw alot of clip jumping yesterday :pat:

studentofthegam
05-27-2011, 12:16 PM
:lol1: :lol1:

I did have a little chuckle at that.

I mean, the crude tactics so to speak back then was lightyears higher than what we have now.

People always say "Can you imagine Robinson in this era"

My response to that is; Can you imagine Mayweather in that era??? He would be ridiculously uncomfortable.

Ref's are immensely more soft in recent history.I dont know about 10 out of ten but I cant say its not all Mayweather either. Considering the laxed reffing back then isnt it a good chance that Floyd would step his forearm game up also?

IronDanHamza
05-27-2011, 12:25 PM
I dont know about 10 out of ten but I cant say its not all Mayweather either. Considering the laxed reffing back then isnt it a good chance that Floyd would step his forearm game up also?

Floyd Mayweather has a good inside game and has a list of crafty and dirty tricks of his own but this era is nothing like that era.

Floyd can certainly handle himself inside and stays calm most of the time when someone is trying to rough him up but he also isn't a huge fan of it.

Take the Hatton fight for example, at times in that fight when Floyd would let Hatton on the inside Floyd would do things like duck under his punch to get the ref to break it, back then it wouldn't go down like that. At soe me stages early in the fight when Hatton grabbed his arm Floyd would fall to the ropes to get the ref to break it, same kind of thing with the point deduction.

Now that was very smart of Floyd, not taking away nothing from him. And he certainly can hold his own on the inside.

But back then, the refs let most things happen. I mean, people died in the ring. Refs would watch fighters literally die infront of them. If Floyd tried that in a Ray Robinson era he would be in a world of trouble and would be very uncomfortable. Mainly because he wouldn't be used to that kind of leiniance.

studentofthegam
05-27-2011, 12:35 PM
Floyd Mayweather has a good inside game and has a list of crafty and dirty tricks of his own but this era is nothing like that era.

Floyd can certainly handle himself inside and stays calm most of the time when someone is trying to rough him up but he also isn't a huge fan of it.

Take the Hatton fight for example, at times in that fight when Floyd would let Hatton on the inside Floyd would do things like duck under his punch to get the ref to break it, back then it wouldn't go down like that. At soe me stages early in the fight when Hatton grabbed his arm Floyd would fall to the ropes to get the ref to break it, same kind of thing with the point deduction.

Now that was very smart of Floyd, not taking away nothing from him. And he certainly can hold his own on the inside.

But back then, the refs let most things happen. I mean, people died in the ring. Refs would watch fighters literally die infront of them. If Floyd tried that in a Ray Robinson era he would be in a world of trouble and would be very uncomfortable. Mainly because he wouldn't be used to that kind of leiniance.I see your point. Back then refs didnt give a sh*t about a guy bent over or even hanging in the ropes. Floyd really put himself in harms way by doing that. Ricky was just too tight to capitalize. Thank God for tenth round KO's. LOL. That was a rough go for Floyd from the start.

Walt Liquor
05-27-2011, 12:43 PM
I do remember a time you said that if Floyd beats.....Not beats but even fights Shane you'd give him some props. What happened? Floyd has a chance against anyone in history. His res is not padded. Yes there are fights even I feel he could have taken to ease the criticism but you making this statement proves his "Damned if you do, Damned if you dont" theory to be a bit true. But hey there are no extra points for consistency on here.

saying SRR would smash floyd is NOT, not giving floyd props. fuk you....

studentofthegam
05-27-2011, 01:00 PM
saying SRR would smash floyd is NOT, not giving floyd props. fuk you....Thats not the part I speak of. Its the part about him fighting simple fighters. And then bringing up Mosley immediately after that. So fuk you my friend.

Walt Liquor
05-27-2011, 01:10 PM
speaking of simple, who did robinson fight that was as crafty, slick and fast as floyd mayweather jr.?

robinson would get worked

robinson and mosley, are like one in the same person, i swear it

although unlike shane, robinson sure ducked alot more

I know where this goes, you don't think almost anyone is as slick and crafty as floyd mayweather, (who got pasted by and old shane)

Walt Liquor
05-27-2011, 01:12 PM
Thats not the part I speak of. Its the part about him fighting simple fighters. And then bringing up Mosley immediately after that. So fuk you my friend.

my bad for the middle finger, someone was drivingme nuts in my office.


shane was not a simple fighter in that fight? he wasn't one dimensional?

studentofthegam
05-27-2011, 01:13 PM
I know where this goes, you don't think almost anyone is as slick and crafty as floyd mayweather, (who got pasted by and old shane)See you did it again. You're not a man of your word. M-M-M

TheHolyCross
05-27-2011, 01:17 PM
I know where this goes, you don't think almost anyone is as slick and crafty as floyd mayweather, (who got pasted by and old shane)

nope, i was trying to direct it towards turpin :(