i'm having trouble looking at jones career and finding some true top class fighters that jones faced. jones faced a man that was actually a few days younger than him saturday night and got knocked out. actually he received a boxing lesson. johnson was also fighting his 52nd fight just like jones. he came ont the pro scene 4 years after jones. has been ko'ed like jones although that was in 97. for some reason you people don't want to give the fellow any credit for beating jones. i mean really, excuses like jones is old and slower than he used to be. that this guy really wasn't that fast. when i keep watching this fight over and over i think that johnson was pretty quik. and it wasn't just speed it was they way he threw his punches. jones has always been able to back people off of him with a quik 1-2 but johnson responded with a 3-4 in most cases. jones was never able to back johnson up at all. johnson faught a very smart match. he came out from the opening bell and pressured jones til the bell rang. jones didn't know how to deal with johnsons style because he couldn't do a quick jab and move to the left like usual because johnson kept the pressure no matter what. jones would have never been able to deal with the fighter he faced on saturday night. granted jones had skill and talent against lesser opponents. the first round took alot out of jones. being hit from beginning to end of round one takes alot out of you. yeah sure this guy johnson only has 28 ko's on his record. but one of those is jones. you have to have some kind of power to ko 28 people. saying that he doesn't have power when in facing 52 fighters he has ko'ed more than half of them is like saying jones has faught quality opponents throughout his career. just so you know only 12 of his ko's were actual ktfo knock outs. same as jones. ok so i know that a few of the guys jones faced were B+ or close to A class. but for me his career was full of no-ones.

He fought James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, and Montell Griffin when they were top contenders. Actually, all 3 are very much still contenders/champs. Maybe Ruiz.

Other than Ruiz, though, those fights were a long time ago. So I won't defend him much more than that.

He's fought a lot of nobodies for HBO.

He fought James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, and Montell Griffin when they were top contenders. Actually, all 3 are very much still contenders/champs. Maybe Ruiz.

Other than Ruiz, though, those fights were a long time ago. So I won't defend him much more than that.

actually those were the ones i would have picked too. but ruiz didn't stand a chance. don't get me wrong i'm not a ruiz fan but he was robbed by the ref. nady broke it up when ruiz got in close enough to do some damage. like hug.

i'm having trouble looking at jones career and finding some true top class fighters that jones faced. jones faced a man that was actually a few days younger than him saturday night and got knocked out. actually he received a boxing lesson. johnson was also fighting his 52nd fight just like jones. he came ont the pro scene 4 years after jones. has been ko'ed like jones although that was in 97. for some reason you people don't want to give the fellow any credit for beating jones. i mean really, excuses like jones is old and slower than he used to be. that this guy really wasn't that fast. when i keep watching this fight over and over i think that johnson was pretty quik. and it wasn't just speed it was they way he threw his punches. jones has always been able to back people off of him with a quik 1-2 but johnson responded with a 3-4 in most cases. jones was never able to back johnson up at all. johnson faught a very smart match. he came out from the opening bell and pressured jones til the bell rang. jones didn't know how to deal with johnsons style because he couldn't do a quick jab and move to the left like usual because johnson kept the pressure no matter what. jones would have never been able to deal with the fighter he faced on saturday night. granted jones had skill and talent against lesser opponents. the first round took alot out of jones. being hit from beginning to end of round one takes alot out of you. yeah sure this guy johnson only has 28 ko's on his record. but one of those is jones. you have to have some kind of power to ko 28 people. saying that he doesn't have power when in facing 52 fighters he has ko'ed more than half of them is like saying jones has faught quality opponents throughout his career. just so you know only 12 of his ko's were actual ktfo knock outs. same as jones. ok so i know that a few of the guys jones faced were B+ or close to A class. but for me his career was full of no-ones.

I don't even know where to start.

1) Johnsosn DOES deserve all the credit in the world for his work ethic, but don't even try to convince me that he had the skills of an elite fighter. Cuz he don't. Why did he beat Jones? Because he worked a hell of a lot harder than RJJ that's it.

2) I don't even know where you guys get this boxing lesson crap. There was NO BOXING LESSON. You can't ****ing teach RJJ a boxing lesson. He just threw a hell of a lot more than RJJ SIMPLE! RJJ's punches we're precise and accurate. Johnson just swarmed RJJ with punches. Yeah he boxed smart, yeah he excecuted his plan well, but that's it!

3) Every ****ing boxer has SOME kind of power. He didn't KO RJJ cuz of his power. The punch hit the temple, that's the worst place you can get hit in the head. Softest part of yer skull.

4) The old RJJ would have moved and not stay in one ****ing place. He was lazy and ****y in this fight. And he got beat. His fault.

If you're gonna tell me that RJJ's career was made fighting buddies than can you name me another fighter that has had more accomplishments in fighting quality opponents in this era?
Listen man, to give Johnson credit for what he did is one thing, but to completely disregard RJJ's accomplishment's throughout his career is just stupid. Anyway, where were the threads questioning RJJ's success before his 2 KO losses?

I don't even know where to start.

1) Johnsosn DOES deserve all the credit in the world for his work ethic, but don't even try to convince me that he had the skills of an elite fighter. Cuz he don't. Why did he beat Jones? Because he worked a hell of a lot harder than RJJ that's it.

2) I don't even know where you guys get this boxing lesson crap. There was NO BOXING LESSON. You can't ****ing teach RJJ a boxing lesson. He just threw a hell of a lot more than RJJ SIMPLE! RJJ's punches we're precise and accurate. Johnson just swarmed RJJ with punches. Yeah he boxed smart, yeah he excecuted his plan well, but that's it!

3) Every ****ing boxer has SOME kind of power. He didn't KO RJJ cuz of his power. The punch hit the temple, that's the worst place you can get hit in the head. Softest part of yer skull.

4) The old RJJ would have moved and not stay in one ****ing place. He was lazy and ****y in this fight. And he got beat. His fault.

If you're gonna tell me that RJJ's career was made fighting buddies than can you name me another fighter that has had more accomplishments in fighting quality opponents in this era?
Listen man, to give Johnson credit for what he did is one thing, but to completely disregard RJJ's accomplishment's throughout his career is just stupid. Anyway, where were the threads questioning RJJ's success before his 2 KO losses?


mooks we both joined this place about the same time and unless you just didn't read those posts you have smply forgotten them. people have been saying it in and out of the forums. i sure know for a fact that i did. unfortunately those posts are not on the new improved site. in his era there simply were only a few quality opponents. read the name of the thread please.

mooks we both joined this place about the same time and unless you just didn't read those posts you have smply forgotten them. people have been saying it in and out of the forums. i sure know for a fact that i did. unfortunately those posts are not on the new improved site. in his era there simply were only a few quality opponents. read the name of the thread please.

Well you talked about the fight so I talked about the fight.
I don't remember those threads.
Anyweyz, the thread was already answered and to define quality opponents is a matter of opinion. I'm just saying man, you're making it sound like RJJ has accomplished nothing and his career is simply a sham. I mean if you can't give Roy his due, to whom exactly would you give it to?

i'm having trouble looking at jones career and finding some true top class fighters that jones faced. jones faced a man that was actually a few days younger than him saturday night and got knocked out. actually he received a boxing lesson. johnson was also fighting his 52nd fight just like jones. he came ont the pro scene 4 years after jones. has been ko'ed like jones although that was in 97. for some reason you people don't want to give the fellow any credit for beating jones. i mean really, excuses like jones is old and slower than he used to be. that this guy really wasn't that fast. when i keep watching this fight over and over i think that johnson was pretty quik. and it wasn't just speed it was they way he threw his punches. jones has always been able to back people off of him with a quik 1-2 but johnson responded with a 3-4 in most cases. jones was never able to back johnson up at all. johnson faught a very smart match. he came out from the opening bell and pressured jones til the bell rang. jones didn't know how to deal with johnsons style because he couldn't do a quick jab and move to the left like usual because johnson kept the pressure no matter what. jones would have never been able to deal with the fighter he faced on saturday night. granted jones had skill and talent against lesser opponents. the first round took alot out of jones. being hit from beginning to end of round one takes alot out of you. yeah sure this guy johnson only has 28 ko's on his record. but one of those is jones. you have to have some kind of power to ko 28 people. saying that he doesn't have power when in facing 52 fighters he has ko'ed more than half of them is like saying jones has faught quality opponents throughout his career. just so you know only 12 of his ko's were actual ktfo knock outs. same as jones. ok so i know that a few of the guys jones faced were B+ or close to A class. but for me his career was full of no-ones.

Antonio Tarver (say what you want, it was close and Jones won the first bout)
Julio Gonzalez (undefeated, later sends Darius into retirement)
John Ruiz
Bernard Hopkins
Montel Griffin
James Toney
Virgil Hill
Eric Harding (undefeated and coming off a one sided destruction of Tarver)
Thomas Tate
Mike McCallum
Vinny Pazienza
Lou Del Valle (number two guy in the division at the time)
Reggie Johnson (Jones unifies division)

roy has fought some very good fighters like : virgil hill
montell griffin
mike mccallum
james toney
bernard hopkins
antonio tarver
eric lucas
vinnie paz
john ruiz.

thats a pretty good list, all of them are former title holders and 3-4 of them have a good shot at being in the hall of fame.oh and roys record against them is 9-2(4 KO) with 1 dq included.

yo mooks
dat punch johnson ko'd jones with wasnt on the temple
it was right under or behind the ear
the follow up left hook it him in the arm or shoulder area
which only served to propel him even faster towards the canvas
if u watch it carefully
hes not really KTFO til the back of his head hits the canvas
as hes goin to tthe floor he still seems to be able to hold his arms up by his head but soon as da back of da head hits the floor
his arms go numb
not to say johnson didnt KO him but it was made worse by the hard crash to the canvas

When your on a pedestal, people cant wait to tear you down. Ive never seen so many people dislike such a fantastic fighter. There are fighters that I have wanted to be brought down a peg, but I always respected what they did in the ring. And when they did loose I didn't run to the computer to talk as much **** as possible about them. Some people just dont get it. :mad:

Antonio Tarver (say what you want, it was close and Jones won the first bout)
Julio Gonzalez (undefeated, later sends Darius into retirement)
John Ruiz
Bernard Hopkins
Montel Griffin
James Toney
Virgil Hill
Eric Harding (undefeated and coming off a one sided destruction of Tarver)
Thomas Tate
Mike McCallum
Vinny Pazienza
Lou Del Valle (number two guy in the division at the time)
Reggie Johnson (Jones unifies division) Most of these fighters on this list are bums, has beens, and blown up lightweights when they fought Jones. The only ones worthy of being named as part of the elite group between 160-175 of Jones's era are James Toney(which was shoe-shinin' at it's best by a scared Jones), Bernard Hopkins(boring, Hops was shutdown with Jones boxing with one hand for most of the fight), Montell Griffin( I had Griffin winning most of the rounds and this was the beginning of Jones using his cracked out version of the rope-a-dope). 2nd tier: Virgil Hill(uh, yeah), Vinny Pazienza(for chrissakes the guy is 5'7 and used to fight at 130 c'mon now) Mike McCallum( way over the hill, but I think he may have had a legitimate shot if they would've fougth when the "Body Snatcher" was in his prime. Reggie Johnson(good solid fighter) Eric Harding I think Paz pound per pound was a better fighter but not between 168-175. The rest I won't even mention.

Roy Jones fought two legit world class fighters Hopkins and Toney thats it

McCallum and Viril Hill were both very well shot by the time Roy Fought them. Vinny Paz's was a former lightweight who Roy fought at 168.

Roy fought some solid guys(Gonzales, Griffin, Johnson) but no one of any real worth.

dont forget while talking about Roy's competion you also have to throw in the joke fights he had. Guys like Otis Grant, Rick Frazier, David Telesco and Glen Kelly in that list you have a school teacher, a cop and a garbage man. There is just no excuse for a p4p fighter to taking on such garbage competion and save me the madatories bull****.

The list of guys Roy could have fought but never did is 10x more impressive than the list of guys he actually fought.

Julian Jackson
Gerald McClelan
Micheal Nunn
Chris Eubank
Nigel Benn
Frankie Liles(who knocked Roy out in the amatures)
Dariusz Michalczewski
Vasilly Jirov(Roy pulled out)
Lennox Lewis or Vitali, Roy instead chose to fight Jon Ruiz.

Roy Jones fought two legit world class fighters Hopkins and Toney thats it

McCallum and Viril Hill were both very well shot by the time Roy Fought them. Vinny Paz's was a former lightweight who Roy fought at 168.

Roy fought some solid guys(Gonzales, Griffin, Johnson) but no one of any real worth.

dont forget while talking about Roy's competion you also have to throw in the joke fights he had. Guys like Otis Grant, Rick Frazier, David Telesco and Glen Kelly in that list you have a school teacher, a cop and a garbage man. There is just no excuse for a p4p fighter to taking on such garbage competion and save me the madatories bull****.

The list of guys Roy could have fought but never did is 10x more impressive than the list of guys he actually fought.

Julian Jackson
Gerald McClelan
Micheal Nunn
Chris Eubank
Nigel Benn
Frankie Liles(who knocked Roy out in the amatures)
Dariusz Michalczewski
Vasilly Jirov(Roy pulled out)
Lennox Lewis or Vitali, Roy instead chose to fight Jon Ruiz.

other than LL none of the fighters you named would be considered even close to great. if roy had fought julian jackson the same things said about mccallum would have been said about him "he was too old when roy fought him". as far as the g-man, roy never fought him because he is permanently injured. also the g-man is overated because of his injury , the man lost to ralph ward and dennis milton in consecutive bouts. nunn was beaten by toney, whom roy fought and defeated.for chris eubank other than nigel benn who did he ever beat?frankie liles might have been good but he has lost to inferior competition. dm lost to gonzales whom roy taught a lesson.the loss was even by decision in GERMANY that really tells you gonzales did a number on dm. vasilly jirov would have been a good fight i give you credit for that one but i believe roy would have been to fast for jirov and would have pot-shotted his way to victory. roy would never fight vitali, roy started his career at middleweight and now you want him to take on a 6 foot 6 250+ fighter? that would be ridiculous he out ways roy jones in his prime by 80 pounds at least

That list is still 10x better than the guys Roy actually fought. i never said they were all time greats what I said was that they were better than the guys he chose to fight and thats the truth.

Jones was Jackson #1 contender when Jones was at 160.

Gonzales beat DM when DM was well on the downside and had been barely getting by in his fights leading up to that.

Yes McClellan had two losses back to back BACK IN THE 80'S. One year into his career

what about Nunn from 91-94 when he was the WBA suppermiddle champ?

Frankie Liles lost early in 92 and didn't lose again till 99.

Like I said there were good fighters for him to fight and Roy always took the path of least resistance and anyone who says different is a shameless fan boy.

^^^^ you are right roy could have fought better competition but which fighter now a days couldnt? its all about the money now not the best fighters. people try to make it seem roy jones didnt fight anybody when he did beat some very good fighters. when hopkins gets beaten or retires what are you gonna say then? the guy has no names besides dlh,( who started at 130 just like paz), and tito.

Antonio Tarver (say what you want, it was close and Jones won the first bout)
Julio Gonzalez (undefeated, later sends Darius into retirement)
John Ruiz
Bernard Hopkins
Montel Griffin
James Toney
Virgil Hill
Eric Harding (undefeated and coming off a one sided destruction of Tarver)
Thomas Tate
Mike McCallum
Vinny Pazienza
Lou Del Valle (number two guy in the division at the time)
Reggie Johnson (Jones unifies division)

Antonio Tarver i will accept. the first fight was close enough that i can see the decision. but tarver would have beat him ko or not in the rematch.
Julio Gonzalez i will also have to accept because darious was a guy that most people said jones would have to fight to be on of the greats and gonzalez beat him. also beat griffin in the rematch.
John Ruiz this one is too hard for me to swallow.
Bernard Hopkins here is another one that i can agree with. although hopkins was not as skilled as he is now.
Montel Griffin was decent enough but imo not great. he lost the important fights in his career.
James Toney definately a class
Virgil Hill not that great imo he was good don't get me wrong but not great
Eric Harding undefeated against who? well ok tarver is on that list. tarver did come back and beat him in rematch.
Thomas Tate i did like tate but he lost as well in the big fights.
Mike McCallum good in his prime but 40 by the time jones faced him
Vinny Pazienza ahh yeah good ol vinnie paz. definately a great but not at the weight jones faced him at. that was kinda like a dlh-bhop cenario.
Lou Del Valle imo b class
Reggie Johnson this johnson was good but not top notch

rick i like the list you have put together. most all of them are definately notable in the era jones faught. i just don't think that they were guys that could have dealt with past eras. i know its hard to say who would have beat who but its just my opinion.

When before in the history of boxing has a fighter gotten so much credit even though he was never the linear champion and he refused to fight the linear champion?

Roy Jones fought two legit world class fighters Hopkins and Toney thats it

McCallum and Viril Hill were both very well shot by the time Roy Fought them. Vinny Paz's was a former lightweight who Roy fought at 168.

Roy fought some solid guys(Gonzales, Griffin, Johnson) but no one of any real worth.

dont forget while talking about Roy's competion you also have to throw in the joke fights he had. Guys like Otis Grant, Rick Frazier, David Telesco and Glen Kelly in that list you have a school teacher, a cop and a garbage man. There is just no excuse for a p4p fighter to taking on such garbage competion and save me the madatories bull****.

The list of guys Roy could have fought but never did is 10x more impressive than the list of guys he actually fought.

Julian Jackson
Gerald McClelan
Micheal Nunn
Chris Eubank
Nigel Benn
Frankie Liles(who knocked Roy out in the amatures)
Dariusz Michalczewski
Vasilly Jirov(Roy pulled out)
Lennox Lewis or Vitali, Roy instead chose to fight Jon Ruiz.


...and Tarver. That's it.

Yeah, he could have fought DM and Vassily.

yo mooks
dat punch johnson ko'd jones with wasnt on the temple
it was right under or behind the ear
the follow up left hook it him in the arm or shoulder area
which only served to propel him even faster towards the canvas
if u watch it carefully
hes not really KTFO til the back of his head hits the canvas
as hes goin to tthe floor he still seems to be able to hold his arms up by his head but soon as da back of da head hits the floor
his arms go numb
not to say johnson didnt KO him but it was made worse by the hard crash to the canvas

His head did bounce pretty hard. That punched rocked his brain good though. I think he was out from the punch cuz of the way he fell (like a statue)

actually I just saw a reply for the knock down again and I honestly think it was his head slamming the canvas that really knocked him out. Johnson did connect 100% but it was behind his right ear which still does some damage but it wasn't to Jones' temple. Jones would have lost the match either way unless he would have pulled up a miracle.

3) Every ****ing boxer has SOME kind of power. He didn't KO RJJ cuz of his power. The punch hit the temple, that's the worst place you can get hit in the head. Softest part of yer skull.

Michael Nunn, Dariusz Michalczewski, Graciano Rocchigiani, Vassiliy Jirov, Corrie Sanders, and Buster Douglas.

^^^^^why did you list these fighters? oh and bye the are actually sayin dm was the linear champ. all he ever had was the wbo belt and its useless. from whom did dm win the linear title from ? talk about fighting no bodies. ( iam assuming you mean dm was linear champ, ignore me if you are not reffering to him in an earlier post in this thread)

^^^^^why did you list these fighters? oh and bye the are actually sayin dm was the linear champ. all he ever had was the wbo belt and its useless. from whom did dm win the linear title from ? talk about fighting no bodies. ( iam assuming you mean dm was linear champ, ignore me if you are not reffering to him in an earlier post in this thread)

dariusz is a good fighter, but cmon, he got dominated by Julio Gonzalez(pardon the spelling, im drunk) who was shut out by Jones. I like Julio though, i hope he can bounce back from his loss against erdei(sorry about the spelling,extremely drunk)

Stupid topic.

To say Roy Jones ducked Douglas and Sanders -- HEAVYWEIGHTS -- when he's naturally a much smaller guy is ridiculous. Same with Jirov. I guess he ducked Tyson and Holyfield too. You can't "duck" someone weight classes above you. if Roy was a natural heavyweight or cruiserweight who was killing himself to make 175 to avoid those fights, then he's ducking. By that theory, Hopkins is ducking Vitali Klitchsko. Moronic post by a Euro nuthugger

Every fighter in history no matter how great is accused of "ducking" somebody. Dariusz was and always has been a club fighter. if you criticize Roy's competition, what about Dariusz who beat RJJ leftovers years after RJJ beat them.

Let's not even talk about his title defenses against the likes of JOEY DEGRANDIS. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

Dariusz fans had zero room to talk. Dariusz and RJJ ducked each other like little punk b!tches. I wish they both would've fought and killed each other

James Toney, Virgil Hill, Reggie Johnson, Bernard Hopkins, Antonio Tarver.....was this supposed to be a hard question?

:D I laugh in the face of people who dislike Roy. As a dedicated boxing fan i cannot understand why people can't appreciate this great talented fighter. Never in all my experience in boxing have i seen ANYONE fight like he does and made everyone he fought look like amatures in his prime. James Toney was the best out there and Roy made him look stupid and showed him the canvas.

Thats it people, pick on his opponents and discredit them. :rolleyes: It just annoys me so much.

Wez

As I have said, they are people who cannot seperate their personal dislike for him from the respect they give him as a fighter.

Wez

As I have said, they are people who cannot seperate their personal dislike for him from the respect they give him as a fighter.

Too true and it's very very sad indeed, especially when alot of people claim to be true boxing fans. :rolleyes:

It just shows some of the ignorance that runs rampant here.

It just shows some of the ignorance that runs rampant here.

too true :cool:

Same here, when i watch roy in his prime it just makes me wonder how these haters cant see the amazing speed and reflexes he has. There has been no-one who has come close to his speed in our era.
Secondly I see the same ppl on here always discrediting the big fighter's records.
RJJ fought nobody, DLH fought fighters who were past their prime..hopkins fought blown up welterweights blah blah blah..it really makes me wonder how boxing lovers can not appreciate such fighters.

:D I laugh in the face of people who dislike Roy. As a dedicated boxing fan i cannot understand why people can't appreciate this great talented fighter. Never in all my experience in boxing have i seen ANYONE fight like he does and made everyone he fought look like amatures in his prime. James Toney was the best out there and Roy made him look stupid and showed him the canvas.

Thats it people, pick on his opponents and discredit them. :rolleyes: It just annoys me so much.

You do? That is odd; I dont recall you ever laughing in my face. I must have missed something. Hmm...

You do? That is odd; I dont recall you ever laughing in my face. I must have missed something. Hmm...

:D when have i seen you face to face?

everyone is entitled to their opinion but i just cannot understand why at all. when someone discounts his talents because they don't like him it seems kinda stupid.

i'm not attacking you personally by the way it's just the way i feel in general by some peoples comments in the past. :cool:

:D when have i seen you face to face?

everyone is entitled to their opinion but i just cannot understand why at all. when someone discounts his talents because they don't like him it seems kinda stupid.

i'm not attacking you personally by the way it's just the way i feel in general by some peoples comments in the past. :cool:

I just think in one of the many, many conversations you and I had over this topic you might have once told me that you "questioned my knowledge" or didnt really consider me a fan of the sport because I dont care for him. Just going by what you've said to me in the past (how you understood where I was coming from) and what youre saying now. Which was true Wez??

Too true and it's very very sad indeed, especially when alot of people claim to be true boxing fans. :rolleyes:

Example: you never once told me that you didnt think I was a real fan; matter of fact you said you were amazed at my boxing knowledge considering I'm female.
It's no big deal; just more of the same really. :rolleyes:

Example: you never once told me that you didnt think I was a real fan; matter of fact you said you were amazed at my boxing knowledge considering I'm female.
It's no big deal; just more of the same really. :rolleyes:

I NEVER said you know nothing about boxing at all. Lets not get petty eh, i was simply stating i could not understand peoples views on hating Roy Jones.

:confused:

I NEVER said you know nothing about boxing at all. Lets not get petty eh, i was simply stating i could not understand peoples views on hating Roy Jones.

:confused:

I wasnt getting petty. I simply wanted to know why you told me one thing and youre posting the complete opposite...it's no big deal ok

I wasnt getting petty. I simply wanted to know why you told me one thing and youre posting the complete opposite...it's no big deal ok

Whatever :cool:

^^^^^why did you list these fighters? oh and bye the are actually sayin dm was the linear champ. all he ever had was the wbo belt and its useless. from whom did dm win the linear title from ? talk about fighting no bodies. ( iam assuming you mean dm was linear champ, ignore me if you are not reffering to him in an earlier post in this thread)

Yes DM was the linear champ. He became the linear champ when he beat Virgil Hill for the WBA and IBF belts, both of which were stripped from him soon after the match.

dariusz is a good fighter, but cmon, he got dominated by Julio Gonzalez(pardon the spelling, im drunk) who was shut out by Jones. I like Julio though, i hope he can bounce back from his loss against erdei(sorry about the spelling,extremely drunk)

Well look at what Tarver and Johnson did Jones. Gonzalez also beat Johnson.

Stupid topic.

To say Roy Jones ducked Douglas and Sanders -- HEAVYWEIGHTS -- when he's naturally a much smaller guy is ridiculous. Same with Jirov. I guess he ducked Tyson and Holyfield too. You can't "duck" someone weight classes above you. if Roy was a natural heavyweight or cruiserweight who was killing himself to make 175 to avoid those fights, then he's ducking. By that theory, Hopkins is ducking Vitali Klitchsko. Moronic post by a Euro nuthugger

Every fighter in history no matter how great is accused of "ducking" somebody. Dariusz was and always has been a club fighter. if you criticize Roy's competition, what about Dariusz who beat RJJ leftovers years after RJJ beat them.

Let's not even talk about his title defenses against the likes of JOEY DEGRANDIS. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

Dariusz fans had zero room to talk. Dariusz and RJJ ducked each other like little punk b!tches. I wish they both would've fought and killed each other

Actually no Jones didn't call out those other fighters. He only called out Jirov, Sanders, and Douglas. How did DM duck Jones? By refusing to give him a 70% cut when he was going to come to the U.S. to fight him where it would have been nearly impossible for him to win a decision. You are also confusing who beat the leftovers here as well. Hill was quite possibly RJJ best win at LHW and he was a DM leftover. You are just laughable man...just laughable.

Actually no Jones didn't call out those other fighters. He only called out Jirov, Sanders, and Douglas. How did DM duck Jones? By refusing to give him a 70% cut when he was going to come to the U.S. to fight him where it would have been nearly impossible for him to win a decision. You are just laughable man...just laughable.

For once I agree with you! :)

Lest we be honest, jones wasnt in a hurry to fight anyone decent...

For once I agree with you! :)

Well that's a first. Glad to see that we finally see eye to eye about something.

No he wasn't in a hurry to fight anyone good when he was at light heavy, thats true. But that is not what this topic asks is it?

This topic asks what top class fighter Jones fought? Toney, Hopkins, Tarver......

Unless someone wants to argue that these guys are not top fighters.

No he wasn't in a hurry to fight anyone good when he was at light heavy, thats true. But that is not what this topic asks is it?

This topic asks what top class fighter Jones fought? Toney, Hopkins, Tarver......

Unless someone wants to argue that these guys are not top fighters.

Tarver still has to prove himself.

He didn't do that by beating Eric Harding, Montell Griffin and Roy Jones?

Why don't you hold Wlad to those same standards?

He didn't do that by beating Eric Harding, Montell Griffin and Roy Jones?

Why don't you hold Wlad to those same standards?

Exactly! Tarver beat 5 top 10 fighters before knocking out Jones

Oh yeah, I forgot about Reggie Johnson too.

Tracy Lee,

Tarver did not beat 5 top 5 fighters before Jones.

Lincoln Carter had a good record vs. journeyman. He wasn't even top 15. Montell Griffin had already been beaten with Dariusz and was barely top 10 and was considered waaaaaaaaaaaaay past his best, Chris Johnson was a decent fighter but by the time Tarver fought him he was barely top 10, if at all. Eric Harding was top 5.

You're exaggerating big time

I've wriiten all kinds of post about Roy "Super*****" Jones Jr. especially after his two consecutive comatose like k.o.'s. Nobody will get any argument out of me as far as Roy Jones Jr's superhuman athletic ability, but talent alone doesn't give anyone a free pass alongside the greats of their respective sport . In my book to be considered a great athlete one has to show tremendous fortitude and Jones Jr. fails in that miserably, talent alone will take someone a long way, but everyone is forgetting about the importance of having a Champion attitude and Roy clearly lacks in that department. As far as Roy's performances in big fights I haven't been impressed for the most part. There's only 7 fights of his that I would consider to have any significance as far as proving he belongs with the all-time greats. 1st one would be the first Montell Griffin fight, my initial thoughts prior to this bout ,well I was interested to see how Jones would react to a real light heavy w/ speed and a crafty one in Montell, I saw the first and mid-rounds go to Griffin and Jones was being very tentative and went back to the ropes alot , and I had Griffin ahead on points prior to the DQ, however Roy was starting to get some rhythm and the tempo was changin. Roy's foul on Griffin showed his insecurity, but this fight is a plus for Jones despite the DQ. 2nd the rematch with Montell(need I say more). 3rd B-HOPS fight, both fighters showed too much respect for each other I don't think it would've made much of a difference if Roy hadn't injured his hand as far as the action of the fight was concerned(Roy wins this one, but in big fights the great ones take the initiative to force the action and show the willingness to control the fight no matter who is in front of them, Jones fails in this one. 4th Toney in '94, this was a lopsided affair, however I don't think Jones proved that he was a great fighter in this matchup, he was just the faster fighter , he displayed a disgusting way to victory by shoeshinin' his way to a win, RJJ again showed his lack of balls by hittin and runnin' instead of stickin' and movin' Big difference. For those people who think that was a real knockdown on Toney, it was more of Toney being off balance from a Jones feint is all that was. 5th is the 1st Tarver fight, having not seen the fight myself I have to go with the popular opinion of other people in which it was a close fight but Jones Jr. actually showed some grit and pulled it out(kudos to Roy). 6th Tarver rematch what we have been suspecting all along. 7TH Glencoffe fight- After this debacle how can anybody STILL ARGUE ABOUT JONES belonging with the ALI'S, CHAVEZ ,etc... Giving Jones the "great" label is an insult to the other fighters who left every ounce they had in the ring and Roy Jones Jr. was ALWAYS too scared to do that!

We can go on and on about who ducked who. I honestly believe Jones and Dariusz ducked each other. All they did is talk. I got sick of it and ignored it after a while. Instead of having the fight in the USA or Germany, they should've had it in a neutral country like Afghanistan for all I cared. Dariusz beats Hill (by decision) years after RJJ Ko'd him convincingly with one punch in 4 rounds. Again, that's an example of Dariusz beating a faded fighter years after RJJ handled him. Griffin, Richard Hall, Derrick Harmon, etc. all came AFTER RJJ beat them to death. The fact taht Dariusz had two life and death struggles with Hall (who Rico Hoye whose a stiff KOd in 2 rounds) speaks for how much of a garbage fighter Dariusz was. That said, RJJ is a b!tch for not fighting him and proving my point. RJJ at his best vs. Dariusz at his best is a blowout. I'm not a Roy Jones lover or hater. For everything good I can say about him, I can say something bad. But Dariusz is partly responsible too for their fight never coming off

He didn't do that by beating Eric Harding, Montell Griffin and Roy Jones?

Why don't you hold Wlad to those same standards?

He lost to Harding the first time and was losing the second time as well until he TKO'd him. Everyone is saying that Jones was shot. I am saying that Tarver has to prove that he did so well against Jones because he is that good and he can do so by dominating the LHW division.

No one is saying that Wlad is a top class fighter. I am simply saying that he has the potential to become one.

We can go on and on about who ducked who. I honestly believe Jones and Dariusz ducked each other. All they did is talk. I got sick of it and ignored it after a while. Instead of having the fight in the USA or Germany, they should've had it in a neutral country like Afghanistan for all I cared. Dariusz beats Hill (by decision) years after RJJ Ko'd him convincingly with one punch in 4 rounds. Again, that's an example of Dariusz beating a faded fighter years after RJJ handled him. Griffin, Richard Hall, Derrick Harmon, etc. all came AFTER RJJ beat them to death. The fact taht Dariusz had two life and death struggles with Hall (who Rico Hoye whose a stiff KOd in 2 rounds) speaks for how much of a garbage fighter Dariusz was. That said, RJJ is a b!tch for not fighting him and proving my point. RJJ at his best vs. Dariusz at his best is a blowout. I'm not a Roy Jones lover or hater. For everything good I can say about him, I can say something bad. But Dariusz is partly responsible too for their fight never coming off


What part about DM not ducking RJJ did you not understand? What part about DM beating Hill first don't you understand? And finally how is winning a fight 98-93, 97-93, 97-93 before you TKO your opponent a life and death struggle?

Tracy Lee,

Tarver did not beat 5 top 5 fighters before Jones.

Lincoln Carter had a good record vs. journeyman. He wasn't even top 15. Montell Griffin had already been beaten with Dariusz and was barely top 10 and was considered waaaaaaaaaaaaay past his best, Chris Johnson was a decent fighter but by the time Tarver fought him he was barely top 10, if at all. Eric Harding was top 5.

You're exaggerating big time

No I didnt. He has the record to prove it. Look, youve done nothing but try and be an ass to everyone, and you succeeded. DONT refer to me (I will ignore you)..DONT quote me(find somebody else) and DONT message me (I will delete it). Since you've put so much effort into offending myself and others; leave me out of your comments, etc.

Look here whore, I've never messaged you.

Say somethign stupid and I will make you look stupid. Which Iv'e done

I p[roved you wrong. Tarver DID NOT beat 5 top 5 opponents.

learn your boxing

Look here whore, I've never messaged you.

Say somethign stupid and I will make you look stupid. Which Iv'e done

I p[roved you wrong. Tarver DID NOT beat 5 top 5 opponents.

learn your boxing

go **** yourself you stupid bastard. If I'm a whore you'd never know about it..idiot. YOU made ME look stupid? Keep telling yourself that

Tracy Lee,

Tarver did not beat 5 top 5 fighters before Jones.

Lincoln Carter had a good record vs. journeyman. He wasn't even top 15. Montell Griffin had already been beaten with Dariusz and was barely top 10 and was considered waaaaaaaaaaaaay past his best, Chris Johnson was a decent fighter but by the time Tarver fought him he was barely top 10, if at all. Eric Harding was top 5.

You're exaggerating big time


montell griffin is still top 10. most thought he had beaten rico hoye whos is currently ranked 5th by the wbc

montell griffin is still top 10. most thought he had beaten rico hoye whos is currently ranked 5th by the wbc

Funny thing is, I never said he beat 5 top 5 fighter....I said 5 top 10 fighters, which he did.

Way to duck my questions.

Griffin got ROBBED vs. Hoye. At the time Dariusz beat Griffin however he wasn't top 5. But still Griffin is a good fighter. he took that fight on 2 weeks notice for Dariusz.

Keep on ducking.

WTF could he duck Neu

He lost to Harding the first time and was losing the second time as well until he TKO'd him. Everyone is saying that Jones was shot. I am saying that Tarver has to prove that he did so well against Jones because he is that good and he can do so by dominating the LHW division.

No one is saying that Wlad is a top class fighter. I am simply saying that he has the potential to become one.

Tarver was losing the second time against Harding? They had only gone 3 rounds!!! Come on. That is like saying Jones was winning until Tarver KTFO'd him. It is meaningless.

Tarver defeated Harding, Johnson and Griffin before Jones. Those three were inarguably top 10 guys. Tarver was proven.

Tarver TKO'd Harding in the 5th round. There is a difference between winning 1 round and winning 4 rounds. Even you should know this.

Tarver was losing the second time against Harding? They had only gone 3 rounds!!! Come on. That is like saying Jones was winning until Tarver KTFO'd him. It is meaningless.

Tarver defeated Harding, Johnson and Griffin before Jones. Those three were inarguably top 10 guys. Tarver was proven.


Thank you!!! Nobody believes me (maybe cause I'm a girl??) Tarver's record is on the net for anyone to see, and he did beat 5 top 10 fighters BEFORE Jones!!

WTF could he duck Neu

My questions for his outlandish comments.

Thank you!!! Nobody believes me (maybe cause I'm a girl??) Tarver's record is on the net for anyone to see, and he did beat 5 top 10 fighters BEFORE Jones!!
Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't jones beat those fighters before tarver did

Never mind i read it wrong DOH
LOL It is getting late over here and i have been up all day.....honest

Chris Johnson and Montell Griffin wasn't in anyone's top 5.

Chris Johnson has NEVER been top 5 in any weight division. Neither has Lincoln Carter. Please name these five top five fighters. And whose top 5 are we talking about? The IBF's? I think they had me listed top 5 at super featherweight once. :rolleyes:

Chris Johnson and Montell Griffin wasn't in anyone's top 5.

Chris Johnson has NEVER been top 5 in any weight division. Neither has Lincoln Carter. Please name these five top five fighters. And whose top 5 are we talking about? The IBF's? I think they had me listed top 5 at super featherweight once. :rolleyes:

Keep digging.

Chris Johnson and Montell Griffin wasn't in anyone's top 5.

Chris Johnson has NEVER been top 5 in any weight division. Neither has Lincoln Carter. Please name these five top five fighters. And whose top 5 are we talking about? The IBF's? I think they had me listed top 5 at super featherweight once. :rolleyes:

Why do I bother??? I said TOP 10...got it???

I guess I'm still high. I could've sworn you said 5 top 5 fighters. I can't find the original post.

In that case, if you said top 10 you're almost right. Lincoln Carter however wasn't top 10. He was undefeated but had beat nobodies. Beating 4 or 5 top 10 light heavyweight however isn't like beating 4 or 5 top junior welterweights.

175 pound class is complete dirt. If I hit the exercise bike and lost a few pounds I could get down to 175 and beat half the guys there now.

I guess I'm still high. I could've sworn you said 5 top 5 fighters. I can't find the original post.

In that case, if you said top 10 you're almost right. Lincoln Carter however wasn't top 10. He was undefeated but had beat nobodies. Beating 4 or 5 top 10 light heavyweight however isn't like beating 4 or 5 top junior welterweights.

175 pound class is complete dirt. If I hit the exercise bike and lost a few pounds I could get down to 175 and beat half the guys there now.


The original:
Exactly! Tarver beat 5 top 10 fighters before knocking out Jones.

And it wasnt a question of how much it was similar to beating 5 top 10 jr.welter wt.s anyway .

You were more right than wrong. I rescind as I come out of this fog of chronic smoke.

My point with the junior welters was simple. Beating 4 or 5 top 10 light heavies in and of itself is not a great accomplishment.

Max Kellerman gloats taht RJJ beat 7 top 10 light heavyweights and I say so what. Derrick Harmon was top 10 only because the rest of the lot was so bad. Not because he was so good. So what Taver did in beating those guys is nothing special. That's my only point there.

I concede. I'm not about fighting. I'm a lover. :cool:

My point with the junior welters was simple. Beating 4 or 5 top 10 light heavies in and of itself is not a great accomplishment.

Max Kellerman gloats taht RJJ beat 7 top 10 light heavyweights and I say so what. Derrick Harmon was top 10 only because the rest of the lot was so bad. Not because he was so good. So what Taver did in beating those guys is nothing special. That's my only point there.

I concede. I'm not about fighting. I'm a lover. :cool:
You may or may not be a lover, but you're certainly an idiot. You're going to sit there and tell me, and everyone else who reads these forums, that the entire light heavyweight class is garbage? Well, I'll tell you to go to hell, but first why don't you try going by boxrec.com and looking at the top ten light heavys.

You've got Paul Briggs, a tough Australian fighter who's scheduled to fight Tarver in December. He's got all the right qualities to make a decent titlist, and his trainer is Jeff Fenech. Now, he hasn't fought that many tough guys, so mebbe he won't pan out, but he looks good, man, I'm telling you.

You've got Glen Johnson, a guy with a ****ty looking record, and a lot more than meets the eye. Is he a pound for pounder? Hell no. Is he still tough as hell, and more determined than Roy Jones wanted him to be? Yes.

There's Dariusz Michalczewski, who may or may not be washed up yet, but has given Europeans years of entertaining fights against fair to decent competition. Now, I'm not saying he was gunning for the stars, and being a fan of RJ, I'll be the first to admit that he should have flown over here to get it on with the big man, but winning consistently over an extended period of time, even against B-level comp is hard as ****. Go ahead, question that statement, I ****in dare you.

Fabrice Tiozzo is a three time titlist whose only two losses came to Virgil Hill. He's a better than average boxer. Imagine he's at 130 or 147. He'd be right in the mix, wouldn't he?

Finally you've got Rico Hoye, whom I saw beat up Prince Badi Ajamu. He may have gotten a late start, but he's making up for lost time. Sure, his last fight was a little controversial, but for one thing a lot of great fighters have a controversial win or two on there records early in their careers, and for another he was taking on Montell Griffin, who generally beats guys, but only just. He tries to shade every round instead of dominating. I would not say his wins over JT were more controversial.

I know, I know, that's not ten names. There are a few dark horses in the top ten, and one or two who prolly shouldn't be there. But I'm not trying to say this is as deep as 140 or 135. I'm saying this weight class is not as bad as everyone says it is. It's average, maybe a little better.

Maybe this post is a little harsh. But ignorance bothers me. I don't really think you should go to hell. I think you should just try harder not to be wrong.

You may or may not be a lover, but you're certainly an idiot. You're going to sit there and tell me, and everyone else who reads these forums, that the entire light heavyweight class is garbage? Well, I'll tell you to go to hell, but first why don't you try going by boxrec.com and looking at the top ten light heavys.

You've got Paul Briggs, a tough Australian fighter who's scheduled to fight Tarver in December. He's got all the right qualities to make a decent titlist, and his trainer is Jeff Fenech. Now, he hasn't fought that many tough guys, so mebbe he won't pan out, but he looks good, man, I'm telling you.

You've got Glen Johnson, a guy with a ****ty looking record, and a lot more than meets the eye. Is he a pound for pounder? Hell no. Is he still tough as hell, and more determined than Roy Jones wanted him to be? Yes.

There's Dariusz Michalczewski, who may or may not be washed up yet, but has given Europeans years of entertaining fights against fair to decent competition. Now, I'm not saying he was gunning for the stars, and being a fan of RJ, I'll be the first to admit that he should have flown over here to get it on with the big man, but winning consistently over an extended period of time, even against B-level comp is hard as ****. Go ahead, question that statement, I ****in dare you.

Fabrice Tiozzo is a three time titlist whose only two losses came to Virgil Hill. He's a better than average boxer. Imagine he's at 130 or 147. He'd be right in the mix, wouldn't he?

Finally you've got Rico Hoye, whom I saw beat up Prince Badi Ajamu. He may have gotten a late start, but he's making up for lost time. Sure, his last fight was a little controversial, but for one thing a lot of great fighters have a controversial win or two on there records early in their careers, and for another he was taking on Montell Griffin, who generally beats guys, but only just. He tries to shade every round instead of dominating. I would not say his wins over JT were more controversial.

I know, I know, that's not ten names. There are a few dark horses in the top ten, and one or two who prolly shouldn't be there. But I'm not trying to say this is as deep as 140 or 135. I'm saying this weight class is not as bad as everyone says it is. It's average, maybe a little better.

Maybe this post is a little harsh. But ignorance bothers me. I don't really think you should go to hell. I think you should just try harder not to be wrong.

What about Erdei, Ulrich, Gonzalez, and Green? And how was DM's level of competition B level?

What about Erdei, Ulrich, Gonzalez, and Green? And how was DM's level of competition B level?

im sure you have said that roy jones has fought b-level fighters or something of that nature. dm has fought roy jones left-overs and vice versa. imo roy jones has fought a lot better comp than dm. whom does dm have meaningful wins over ( just curious)

im sure you have said that roy jones has fought b-level fighters or something of that nature. dm has fought roy jones left-overs and vice versa. imo roy jones has fought a lot better comp than dm. whom does dm have meaningful wins over ( just curious)

Actually I've never said Jones fought B level fighters. I have said that he tended to shy away from the tougher fights, and I have said that I think that DM would have beaten Jones. For the sake of this argument I am going to ignore DM's last fight and RJJ's last 2 fights. DM and RJJ had many similar opponents and not counting RJJ second try at Griffin, DM finished all of them off sooner than RJJ did except Hill who DM beat before RJJ did. Thus winning the WBA and IBF belts and becoming the linear champ. The only good fighters that Jones beat that DM didn't face were an injured Harding, Tarver, a nearly 40 year old McCallum, and a heavyweight Ruiz if you want to count him because DM would never have been able to use his style at HW. The only good fighter that DM beat that Roy didn't face because he ducked him, Rocchigiani (counting Thazdi would just be a low blow to Toney fans). But Roy also ducked the fighter who Rocchigiani beat before DM beat him for the 2nd time in Michael Nunn.

This topic is funny. Shows that the starter is clueless about boxing. This was a first. Who has Jones ever fought? LMAO. Whatever.

Who are all these guys Jones ducked? And don't even try saying DM. Jones had all the belts that matter, WBC, WBA, IBF. DM had the one WBO belt, which back then wasn't even considered anything. DM wasn't willing to come here. Since Jones had the real belts and was the real champ not only literally, but by every reputable boxing reporter in the world, it was not Jones that ducked DM.

Julio Gonzales beat DM. Jones easily beat Julio Gonzales BEFORE Julio beat DM. DM couldn't even beat Jones' leftovers successfully. And DM is younger than Jones.

And if anybody tries naming a heavyweight Jones ducked, you're a moron. Cause he didn't duck any heavyweights. And let's say he would have, so what? He was a light heavyweight. The fact that the public was clamoring for this guy to go to heavyweight shows his greatness.

This topic is funny. Shows that the starter is clueless about boxing. This was a first. Who has Jones ever fought? LMAO. Whatever.

Who are all these guys Jones ducked? And don't even try saying DM. Jones had all the belts that matter, WBC, WBA, IBF. DM had the one WBO belt, which back then wasn't even considered anything. DM wasn't willing to come here. Since Jones had the real belts and was the real champ not only literally, but by every reputable boxing reporter in the world, it was not Jones that ducked DM.

Julio Gonzales beat DM. Jones easily beat Julio Gonzales BEFORE Julio beat DM. DM couldn't even beat Jones' leftovers successfully. And DM is younger than Jones.

And if anybody tries naming a heavyweight Jones ducked, you're a moron. Cause he didn't duck any heavyweights. And let's say he would have, so what? He was a light heavyweight. The fact that the public was clamoring for this guy to go to heavyweight shows his greatness.

I guess Jones didn't care about becoming the linear champ then. And you don't seem to mind that he wasn't either. Johnson destroyed Jones and Gonzalez beat Johnson so go figure. Jones ducked Nunn and Rocchigiani. DM is older than Jones. DM was willing to come here but Jones wanted a 70/30 purse split. How can you call the one who started this thread clueless and then go on to make a post like that?

Jones was the champ. He only had to agree to 75/25 purse split. 70/30 was MORE than generous for a guy nobody here had heard of.

Jones beat Gonzales. so what's your point there? That made no sense. Yes, Jones is obviously done now. How did Jones duck Rocchigiani? Get real, you try to make it sound like that bum was anything. He was the one who didn't want to fight Jones after Jones had the title. He didn't even fairly win the title anyhow. And he was a ****** for sueing the WBC over it. I don't support the WBC, but if I were them, I'd tell Rocchigiani to go **** himself too.

Why am I even bothering to argue with a Wlad Klitschko fan?

http://www.geocities.com/walkenkingny/real*****es/klitschkos/klit8.jpg

Actually I've never said Jones fought B level fighters. I have said that he tended to shy away from the tougher fights, and I have said that I think that DM would have beaten Jones. For the sake of this argument I am going to ignore DM's last fight and RJJ's last 2 fights. DM and RJJ had many similar opponents and not counting RJJ second try at Griffin, DM finished all of them off sooner than RJJ did except Hill who DM beat before RJJ did. Thus winning the WBA and IBF belts and becoming the linear champ. The only good fighters that Jones beat that DM didn't face were an injured Harding, Tarver, a nearly 40 year old McCallum, and a heavyweight Ruiz if you want to count him because DM would never have been able to use his style at HW. The only good fighter that DM beat that Roy didn't face because he ducked him, Rocchigiani (counting Thazdi would just be a low blow to Toney fans). But Roy also ducked the fighter who Rocchigiani beat before DM beat him for the 2nd time in Michael Nunn.

roy didnt duck nunn. roy went after the man that beat nunn. also you forgot to mention dm never fought hopkins and toney (both far and away better than anyone one dm ever fought)

roy didnt duck nunn. roy went after the man that beat nunn. also you forgot to mention dm never fought hopkins and toney (both far and away better than anyone one dm ever fought)

In 1997 Michael Nunn was RJJ WBC mandatory, Roy gave up the WBC belt and said that he was going to make the jump up to heavyweight. Nunn fights Rocchigiani and loses. Rocchigiani thus won the WBC light heavyweight title. In his next fight he loses to DM, so thus DM should have won yet another belt making that every single major LHW belt. 6 months after Nunn lost to Rocchigiani Jones decides not to make the jump up after all and says he wants the belt back. The WBC suddenly declares Rocchigiani to be the interim champ and gives the belt back to RJJ. Shouldn't RJJ have had to beat Rocchigiani in order to get the belt back? Well most people think that he should have and Rocchigiani sued the WBC and won $31 million.

As far as Toney and Hopkins, we are talking just LHW here. Toney wasn't that great at LHW and Hopkins wasn't a LHW. LHW was probably Toney's weakest weight class. Just ask Drake Thazdi and Montel Griffin two fighters who beat Toney who DM beat easily.

Here is a great RJJ site to educate you:
http://www.geocities.com/boxing_news2002/

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Is this thread still going??? Come on people leave Roy alone. He's lost now, isn't that enough to please your hateful minds? :rolleyes:

In 1997 Michael Nunn was RJJ WBC mandatory, Roy gave up the WBC belt and said that he was going to make the jump up to heavyweight. Nunn fights Rocchigiani and loses. Rocchigiani thus won the WBC light heavyweight title. In his next fight he loses to DM, so thus DM should have won yet another belt making that every single major LHW belt. 6 months after Nunn lost to Rocchigiani Jones decides not to make the jump up after all and says he wants the belt back. The WBC suddenly declares Rocchigiani to be the interim champ and gives the belt back to RJJ. Shouldn't RJJ have had to beat Rocchigiani in order to get the belt back? Well most people think that he should have and Rocchigiani sued the WBC and won $31 million.

As far as Toney and Hopkins, we are talking just LHW here. Toney wasn't that great at LHW and Hopkins wasn't a LHW. LHW was probably Toney's weakest weight class. Just ask Drake Thazdi and Montel Griffin two fighters who beat Toney who DM beat easily.

Toney was robbed in both Griffin bouts, even a blind man could see the poor decision in the second of their two fights.

The bottom line with Roy Jones Jr. is this, people can say what they want but the man won titles in 4 different weight classes. He has a set ticket for the hall of fame and has been rated the number one fighter in the world for several years, up until the loss to Antonio Tarver. He began his career at 154 and won his last title at heavyweight, something that wasnt accomplished in over 100 years.

Jones beat Hopkins who has not been beat since. He beat Ruiz who has not been beat since. He dominated Toney and Toney has not been dominated in any of his other losses. Forget the established names on his resume, he took on and beat many undefeated fighters from 160-175.

As far as him ducking DM, DM was never anything to duck. He had more then his share of gift decisions and was terrified to leave Germany. Jones was one of the biggest names in the boxing world with seven light heavyweight titles and DM wanted Jones to travel to Germany in order to make the fight. Jones was the champion, Jones had all the titles and Jones brought the money to the table, who hell was DM to command where and when the fight should take place. Only a handful of people even knew who DM was outside of Germany. After everything is said and done, DM never did accomplished anything to brag about in his career other then holding the WBO's version of the light heavyweight title hostage in Germany. Jirov was willing to fight DM in Germany, at 190 and DM demanded an amount of money that no promoter would be able to come up with for that fight.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Is this thread still going??? Come on people leave Roy alone. He's lost now, isn't that enough to please your hateful minds? :rolleyes:Nope, not quite getting close though. I posted it in the past that people shouldn't watch Roy's next fight , if Jones Jr. does decide to step back in the ring for the excuses he has stated in the media about not being motivated, well boxing fans don't wanna be treated to a fight where a guy is not giving it all cause "it's hard to get up for fights like this" Roy Jones Jr. said. However I am not completely satisfied with seeing this guy lose twice in a row. What I would want is this guy to get a thorough beating. I wanna see this guy get tortured in the ring and then get K.T.F.O again only this time it'll be in the 12th rd. However there's a very slim chance of that happening if he feels he doesn't have a chance in hell to win, ROY will probably pull a No Mas in the latter of the 1st rd. What I would love to see is something very similar to when Ali and I forget who the opponent was, but Ali kept asking the fighter what his name was, while giving him a spanking cause the guy had refused to call him by his Muslim name prior to the fight. What I would want this certain fighter to ask Roy while in the midst of giving Jones Jr. the worst beating of his life is "You better say yes, when I ask you if you are motivated for this fight" There's only 1 fighter out there that I would give this opportunity to giving the beatdown of Roy's life ala Ivan Drago vs. Apollo Creed and that is James Toney

Rick Reeno.....Excellent post !


The problem is that so many have a distaste for Jones (which is understandable) that clouds their objectivity.

He annoyed the hell out of me for a great part of his career, but I never let that keep from putting his abilities & accomplishments into proper perspective.

Roy Jones fought two legit world class fighters Hopkins and Toney thats it

McCallum and Viril Hill were both very well shot by the time Roy Fought them. Vinny Paz's was a former lightweight who Roy fought at 168.

Roy fought some solid guys(Gonzales, Griffin, Johnson) but no one of any real worth.

dont forget while talking about Roy's competion you also have to throw in the joke fights he had. Guys like Otis Grant, Rick Frazier, David Telesco and Glen Kelly in that list you have a school teacher, a cop and a garbage man. There is just no excuse for a p4p fighter to taking on such garbage competion and save me the madatories bull****.

The list of guys Roy could have fought but never did is 10x more impressive than the list of guys he actually fought.

Julian Jackson
Gerald McClelan
Micheal Nunn
Chris Eubank
Nigel Benn
Frankie Liles(who knocked Roy out in the amatures)
Dariusz Michalczewski
Vasilly Jirov(Roy pulled out)
Lennox Lewis or Vitali, Roy instead chose to fight Jon Ruiz.
Good point, but If I'm not mistaken Darius Michalczewski, Chris Eubank, and Nigel Benn were all Europeans, who probably would not have agreed to fight in America and we all know where Roy stands in fighting overseas, but I see where Jones Jr. is paranoid about the whole idea of fighting in another country, he in my eyes suffered the worse robbery in all of boxing and that was in the '88 olympics. As far as RJ fighting Lennox it would've never happened cause Jones Jr. don't want no part of Lennox, Vassily Jirov too risky not enough money, and Gerald Mclellan aren't him and Roy buddies, I think it was more of Michael Nunn ducking Roy, and I don't know much of Julian Jackson and Frankie Liles as to why they never crossed paths with RJJ.

Jones was the champ. He only had to agree to 75/25 purse split. 70/30 was MORE than generous for a guy nobody here had heard of.

Jones beat Gonzales. so what's your point there? That made no sense. Yes, Jones is obviously done now. How did Jones duck Rocchigiani? Get real, you try to make it sound like that bum was anything. He was the one who didn't want to fight Jones after Jones had the title. He didn't even fairly win the title anyhow. And he was a ****** for sueing the WBC over it. I don't support the WBC, but if I were them, I'd tell Rocchigiani to go **** himself too.

Well Gonzalez beat DM and he has been going to downhill for a year or so. The point is if you are going to count DM's loss to Gonzalez, you have to also count Roy's humiliating losses to Tarver and Johnson. Alright you obviously know nothing about boxing if you think that Rocchigiani didn't fairly win the title.

Toney was robbed in both Griffin bouts, even a blind man could see the poor decision in the second of their two fights.

The bottom line with Roy Jones Jr. is this, people can say what they want but the man won titles in 4 different weight classes. He has a set ticket for the hall of fame and has been rated the number one fighter in the world for several years, up until the loss to Antonio Tarver. He began his career at 154 and won his last title at heavyweight, something that wasnt accomplished in over 100 years.

Jones beat Hopkins who has not been beat since. He beat Ruiz who has not been beat since. He dominated Toney and Toney has not been dominated in any of his other losses. Forget the established names on his resume, he took on and beat many undefeated fighters from 160-175.

As far as him ducking DM, DM was never anything to duck. He had more then his share of gift decisions and was terrified to leave Germany. Jones was one of the biggest names in the boxing world with seven light heavyweight titles and DM wanted Jones to travel to Germany in order to make the fight. Jones was the champion, Jones had all the titles and Jones brought the money to the table, who hell was DM to command where and when the fight should take place. Only a handful of people even knew who DM was outside of Germany. After everything is said and done, DM never did accomplished anything to brag about in his career other then holding the WBO's version of the light heavyweight title hostage in Germany. Jirov was willing to fight DM in Germany, at 190 and DM demanded an amount of money that no promoter would be able to come up with for that fight.

Once again we are only talking light heavyweight here. You aren't going to get any argument from me about how great RJJ was at super middleweight and middleweight. Jones accomplishments at other weight classes and DM refusing to fight Jirov have no place in this argument. Like I have said before DM's style would never have allowed him to be any good at higher weight classes. How many of those titles belonged to DM? Let's see the WBA, the IBF, and the WBC. So every single belt legitamently belonged to DM and not RJJ and DM was the linear champ as well.

Once again we are only talking light heavyweight here. You aren't going to get any argument from me about how great RJJ was at super middleweight and middleweight. Jones accomplishments at other weight classes and DM refusing to fight Jirov have no place in this argument. Like I have said before DM's style would never have allowed him to be any good at higher weight classes. How many of those titles belonged to DM? Let's see the WBA, the IBF, and the WBC. So every single belt legitamently belonged to DM and not RJJ and DM was the linear champ as well.

I dont know how DM owned any of those belts. Jones beat McCallum for the WBC, Delvale (spelling) for the WBA and Johnson for the IBF to unify the division.

I dont know how DM owned any of those belts. Jones beat McCallum for the WBC, Delvale (spelling) for the WBA and Johnson for the IBF to unify the division.

Corrupt sanctioning bodies. DM beat Hill for the IBF and WBA belts, both were stripped from him. Then he beat Rocchigiani for the WBC belt after the WBC had stripped him and given the belt to Roy without him having to fight for it. And I'm not sure what his gift decisions were. He had one decision win over Hill, 117-112, 116-113, 118-110 from 1997-2003

Corrupt sanctioning bodies. DM beat Hill for the IBF and WBA belts, both were stripped from him. Then he beat Rocchigiani for the WBC belt after the WBC had stripped him and given the belt to Roy without him having to fight for it. And I'm not sure what his gift decisions were. He had one decision win over Hill, 117-112, 116-113, 118-110 from 1997-2003

That had nothing to do with corruption, there was a beef with the sanctioning bodies. DM had a choice to keep the WBA or the WBO, he kept the WBO and was stripped of the WBA. He voluntarily dropped the IBF due to a whole other issue involved with a lawsuit.

Michael Nunn, Dariusz Michalczewski, Graciano Rocchigiani, Vassiliy Jirov, Corrie Sanders, and Buster Douglas.

Corrie Sanders and Buster Doughlas? Er, they are Heavy Weights. Douglas was a name when Jones was a Middlewieght. Lets keep this in the realm of possibility and reason. Its like saying if Pac is soo good, why dosen't he challenge Spinks? There is a reason people applude Jones for beating Ruiz (I, for one, don't) its because he is small, even for a Lt Heavy.

Roy Jones and Dariusz blew it. They were the two best light heavies. You can argue who was linear, who should've fought on whose turft, etc. and everyone has a legitimate point.

BUT, the fact is they didn't make the fight happen. They could've easily had this fight in some place other than Germany or the USA as a compromise. Did they even try? No.

Jones and Dariusz are passe. They're old news. They've both been beaten. They missed their chance. F!ck them both. Tarver KTFOs both of them on the same night and I don't think Tarver is all that special.

Roy Jones and Dariusz blew it. They were the two best light heavies. You can argue who was linear, who should've fought on whose turft, etc. and everyone has a legitimate point.

BUT, the fact is they didn't make the fight happen. They could've easily had this fight in some place other than Germany or the USA as a compromise. Did they even try? No.

Jones and Dariusz are passe. They're old news. They've both been beaten. They missed their chance. F!ck them both. Tarver KTFOs both of them on the same night and I don't think Tarver is all that special.

yeah they have both been beaten but they couldnt be on top forever. thats like you being on top of a women forever(or 3 minutes) because she would sufficate and all the bones in her body would be crushed. :D

yeah they have both been beaten but they couldnt be on top forever. thats like you being on top of a women forever(or 3 minutes) because she would sufficate and all the bones in her body would be crushed. :D
When you're healthy like me, it takes more than one woman to satisfy me. So being that I'm a player I get 2 or 3 at a time. you wouldn't understand that because you're a hater

Willy,

If thats your picture.....I would hate to see you UNHEALTHY.

Leave my picture alone. I'm beautiful. I'm country fabulous!:-D

That had nothing to do with corruption, there was a beef with the sanctioning bodies. DM had a choice to keep the WBA or the WBO, he kept the WBO and was stripped of the WBA. He voluntarily dropped the IBF due to a whole other issue involved with a lawsuit.

Look, when its coming from Rick, it's right. You can bet on it...good time to be quiet ;)

willy

If I shame you into running a few laps.....I am doing a good thing.

That had nothing to do with corruption, there was a beef with the sanctioning bodies. DM had a choice to keep the WBA or the WBO, he kept the WBO and was stripped of the WBA. He voluntarily dropped the IBF due to a whole other issue involved with a lawsuit.

How can you say the IBF deal had nothing to do with corruption? DM was ordered by the IBF to fight Gutherie within 30 days of his win over Hill.

Corrie Sanders and Buster Doughlas? Er, they are Heavy Weights. Douglas was a name when Jones was a Middlewieght. Lets keep this in the realm of possibility and reason. Its like saying if Pac is soo good, why dosen't he challenge Spinks? There is a reason people applude Jones for beating Ruiz (I, for one, don't) its because he is small, even for a Lt Heavy.

He really shouldn't be calling those people out then should he. He backed out of the Douglas fight at the last minute because his dad told him that it wasn't worth it for his career, which it probably wasn't.

Roy Jones and Dariusz blew it. They were the two best light heavies. You can argue who was linear, who should've fought on whose turft, etc. and everyone has a legitimate point.

BUT, the fact is they didn't make the fight happen. They could've easily had this fight in some place other than Germany or the USA as a compromise. Did they even try? No.

Jones and Dariusz are passe. They're old news. They've both been beaten. They missed their chance. F!ck them both. Tarver KTFOs both of them on the same night and I don't think Tarver is all that special.

Actually you can't argue who the linear champ was.

Neuraxis

Jones decided at the last minute not to fight someone 60 lbs out of his weight class. This cannot be held AGAINST Jones.

Look, when its coming from Rick, it's right. You can bet on it...good time to be quiet ;)

He's right about the WBA, wrong about the IBF, and he still hasn't addressed the WBC or DM's gift decisions.

Actually you can't argue who the linear champ was.

This is true.

Neuraxis

Jones decided at the last minute not to fight someone 60 lbs out of his weight class. This cannot be held AGAINST Jones.

I realize that, I was merely pointing out that these matchups were not made up like Pacman v. whoever else he named.

I realize that, I was merely pointing at these matchups were not made up.

To what end?

To what end?

To the end that they aren't just made up matchups like Vitali v. Hopkins.

To the end that they aren't just made up matchups like Vitali v. Hopkins.

Okay.....I must have missed something.

Okay.....I must have missed something.

That's probably pretty likely.

John Ruiz... That guy is top line he is all class....

Note the sarcasim in my voice

I take it that everyones silence means that everyone agrees with me. I'm glad I could educate all of you about Roy Jones Jr.

I take it that everyones silence means that everyone agrees with me. I'm glad I could educate all of you about Roy Jones Jr.

You know, that is the one thing about you that bug's me the most. You have a nasty habit of speaking for people other than yourself. I dont know about anyone else (in other words, I cant speak for them) but I was busy on 3 different threads and a few private mess. to debate with you ...besides, depending on the topic of debate, it's the same as banging my head against the wall!!

You know, that is the one thing about you that bug's me the most. You have a nasty habit of speaking for people other than yourself. I dont know about anyone else (in other words, I cant speak for them) but I was busy on 3 different threads and a few private mess. to debate with you ...besides, depending on the topic of debate, it's the same as banging my head against the wall!!

Ok so everyone runs to hide when they realize that they are wrong, and now I can't call them on it.

Ok so everyone runs to hide when they realize that they are wrong, and now I can't call them on it.

That's my point exactly...who know's why they've not replied to you. Before you chalk it up to fear, maybe they got busy like I did? I mean, it is possible. Are these 'people' you claim youre calling out even still online? And if it's the same people that have been debating this same issue with you, could they have grown tired of it? See, I ask, while you assume. Just dont try and guess what their reasons are and they might reply when they have time, or when they want to.
We CAN all get along, just stop speaking for people...I dont know about the rest of them, but I cant stand that

willy

If I shame you into running a few laps.....I am doing a good thing.
I'm on the Kirk Johnson Krispy Kreme diet. I work out 5 times a week

That's my point exactly...who know's why they've not replied to you. Before you chalk it up to fear, maybe they got busy like I did? I mean, it is possible. Are these 'people' you claim youre calling out even still online? And if it's the same people that have been debating this same issue with you, could they have grown tired of it? See, I ask, while you assume. Just dont try and guess what their reasons are and they might reply when they have time, or when they want to.
We CAN all get along, just stop speaking for people...I dont know about the rest of them, but I cant stand that

Well that's just like your opinion man.

Well that's just like your opinion man.

Right, that's true, all except for the "man" part. Anyway, I was just trying to help you out a bit (wasnt being a smart ass either) cause youre not getting too many responses from the look's of it. :rolleyes:

Well since you seem to like this thread so much, what do you think about corruption with the IBF and WBC light heavyweight titles during the late 1990s? And how does someone who has one decision win from 1997-2003, and 7 total decision wins with 41 non decision wins build up his record with gift decisions? Especially when the one decision win from 1997-2003 was scored 117-112, 116-113, 118-110, and his closest decision win was 117-109, 116-111, 116-111.

This is waiting for you tracylee.

Is that a joke er..... Hopkins, Toney, Hill, Griffin, Mcallum to name just a few without actually looking at his record, I'm no huge fan of Jones, but stop this bul**** because he's over now, he has been one of the finest fighters of the last 50 years and at his devastating best few in history would have lived with him....fact

Is that a joke er..... Hopkins, Toney, Hill, Griffin, Mcallum to name just a few without actually looking at his record, I'm no huge fan of Jones, but stop this bul**** because he's over now, he has been one of the finest fighters of the last 50 years and at his devastating best few in history would have lived with him....fact

Pfft. Hopkins and Toney. That's it. The only reason Jones fought those other guys because they were guys with name recognition (except Griffin) but posed little threat. Griffin was supposed to be a walkover, McCallum had grandchildren in college, and Hill had just come off a asskicking from DM. If you want to go further, Reggie Johnson was essentially done but beat the vastly overrated William Guthrie to earn a shot at Jones.

Instead of arguing "What great fighters did RJJ beat?" it should be "What fighters did Roy Jones beat go on to become great?". The former can be skewed to fit your argument and fanboy status. The latter can be answered with just a bit more honesty.



Toney and Hopkins.

Well since you seem to like this thread so much, what do you think about corruption with the IBF and WBC light heavyweight titles during the late 1990s? And how does someone who has one decision win from 1997-2003, and 7 total decision wins with 41 non decision wins build up his record with gift decisions? Especially when the one decision win from 1997-2003 was scored 117-112, 116-113, 118-110, and his closest decision win was 117-109, 116-111, 116-111.

I didnt answer cause you once again assumed wrong; I DONT like this thread so much. Thank you
And, when Rick Reeno tried to debate it with you, the man who is paid to know his "stuff" all you did was argue back, etc..
Let me just say that Rick knows more about boxing that I can hope to learn; so what would be the point in a less-educated fan even trying??

Hill was probably Jones' best win at 175. THe Tarver win though it was close has to look good now too.

sunny should try to steal from rick

he has a lot of points he hasnt banked yet!

How can you say the IBF deal had nothing to do with corruption? DM was ordered by the IBF to fight Gutherie within 30 days of his win over Hill.

What does that have to do with corruption? He was asked to fight a mandatory who "won a lawsuit" in order to get that fight, the IBF's hands were tied. If DM really wanted to keep the belt, if he was really that good, he would have fought the guy instead of dropping the belt.

Champions are stripped every month for not fighting mandatories and it has nothing to do with corruption. Winky Wright was just stripped of two belts for fighting Mosley instead of two guys that were waiting in line for title shots.

Morales also ditched his IBF belt, what we do face however is a bad case of double standards in many situations, there are so many belts now that it is virtually impossible to keep all of the belts at the same time asa unified champ. I mean if you have four different mandatory contenders thats a lot of fighting to do! Hey but like the 30-40s perhaps we shold do that then :D
In seriousness its almost impossible for the guys to hold all the titles due to the politics, however we have exception to the rule.

The WBC usually strip a champ if they hold the WBO belt, thats a policy right? So how is Nard keeping hold of all the titles? Simple WBC are skint after their recent less than savoury court incident, and Nard hold the key to big money and sanctioning fees.

Hence they wont enforce their own policy.

Hypocrisy? certainly! Corrupt? possibly.

What does that have to do with corruption? He was asked to fight a mandatory who "won a lawsuit" in order to get that fight, the IBF's hands were tied. If DM really wanted to keep the belt, if he was really that good, he would have fought the guy instead of dropping the belt.

Champions are stripped every month for not fighting mandatories and it has nothing to do with corruption. Winky Wright was just stripped of two belts for fighting Mosley instead of two guys that were waiting in line for title shots.

So you are telling me that this happens all the time? Fighters having to fight mandatories within 30 days of winning their major belts. So you are telling me after his fight with Hill that you wanted him to fight Guthrie within 30 days of that fight? I would really like to see you hold Roy Jones Jr. to such high standards. There was nothing about Winky Wright having to fight mandatories within 30 days of winning his belts. You also didn't address his gift decisions or Roy Jones Jr. and the WBC belt.

I didnt answer cause you once again assumed wrong; I DONT like this thread so much. Thank you
And, when Rick Reeno tried to debate it with you, the man who is paid to know his "stuff" all you did was argue back, etc..
Let me just say that Rick knows more about boxing that I can hope to learn; so what would be the point in a less-educated fan even trying??

Never assume anything because you only make an...well I think you know the rest.

Never assume anything because you only make an...well I think you know the rest.

YOU are telling ME that? :confused:

YOU are telling ME that? :confused:

Nevermind I guess you don't know the joke.

actually those were the ones i would have picked too. but ruiz didn't stand a chance. don't get me wrong i'm not a ruiz fan but he was robbed by the ref. nady broke it up when ruiz got in close enough to do some damage. like hug.


Robbed by the ref? Where were you when they went over boxing rules? When did holding every 30 seconds become legal? Nady did the right thing by not letting Ruiz cheat in this fight as he as in his previous fights.

Actually you can't argue who the linear champ was.
Shannon Briggs was the linear champ at heavyweight. The best fighter in the division isn't always "linear." Dariusz and RJJ were 1 and 2 in the division. Bottom line is they should've fought and both of them wasted our time talking about fighting rather than making their fight happen. I depise them both for it.

Corrupt sanctioning bodies. DM beat Hill for the IBF and WBA belts, both were stripped from him. Then he beat Rocchigiani for the WBC belt after the WBC had stripped him and given the belt to Roy without him having to fight for it. And I'm not sure what his gift decisions were. He had one decision win over Hill, 117-112, 116-113, 118-110 from 1997-2003
A corrupt sanctioning body allowed Dariusz to have WBO title defenses vs. the likes of Joey DeGrandis, Ali Ennebati and RJJ leftovers Richard Hall and Derrick Harmon. They also allowed RJJ to have defenses vs. Otis Grant, Rick Frazier, etc

If your defense of Dariusz is predicated on "corrupt sanctioning bodies," that's the pot calling the kettle black. Find another way to make your point. Both of them were able to duck each other because their corrupt sanctioning bodies wouldn't rank the other champ to make him a mandatory.

A corrupt sanctioning body allowed Dariusz to have WBO title defenses vs. the likes of Joey DeGrandis, Ali Ennebati and RJJ leftovers Richard Hall and Derrick Harmon. They also allowed RJJ to have defenses vs. Otis Grant, Rick Frazier, etc

If your defense of Dariusz is predicated on "corrupt sanctioning bodies," that's the pot calling the kettle black. Find another way to make your point. Both of them were able to duck each other because their corrupt sanctioning bodies wouldn't rank the other champ to make him a mandatory.

Regardless DM had the WBO catering to him, while RJJ had every other major and minor belt catering to his every want and need.

Regardless DM had the WBO catering to him, while RJJ had every other major and minor belt catering to his every want and need.
So by that logic its more of Jones' fault than Dariusz? He does it so I do it too?

Whatever happened to standing up and being a man and a true champion and commanding the organization whose protecting you to do the right thing?

you're admitting that Dariusz is guilty but saying that Jones is more guilty. What does it matter? Wrong is wrong and they were both wrong.

So by that logic its more of Jones' fault than Dariusz? He does it so I do it too?

Whatever happened to standing up and being a man and a true champion and commanding the organization whose protecting you to do the right thing?

you're admitting that Dariusz is guilty but saying that Jones is more guilty. What does it matter? Wrong is wrong and they were both wrong.

Where did you pull Ali Ennebati from? Either way DM never accepted a stolen belt. RJJ did. That says enough right there.

What the F!ck is this ****, we're still arguing about this... %*&^$#!
*&^%$#@! i thought you guys were BOXING FANS!!! EVEN IF YOU HATE ROY JONES JR ( and i know SOME of you do ), you HAVE TO GIVE THE GUY CREDIT FOR HIS GREAT TALENT EVEN if he "misuses" it in your eyes, because by your bull**** reasoning EVERY FIGHTER IS A BUM IF RJJ CAN'T GET CREDIT FOR HIS AMAZING CAREER... Besides, Roy beat Ruiz up and took his belt away, even if you hate Roy, you owe him for that!

I just have to name one? Ok, I'll take Bernard Hopkins.

What the F!ck is this ****, we're still arguing about this... %*&^$#!
*&^%$#@! i thought you guys were BOXING FANS!!! EVEN IF YOU HATE ROY JONES JR ( and i know SOME of you do ), you HAVE TO GIVE THE GUY CREDIT FOR HIS GREAT TALENT EVEN if he "misuses" it in your eyes, because by your bull**** reasoning EVERY FIGHTER IS A BUM IF RJJ CAN'T GET CREDIT FOR HIS AMAZING CAREER... Besides, Roy beat Ruiz up and took his belt away, even if you hate Roy, you owe him for that!

Look who brought the thread back to the top. A RJJ junior fan did.

Where did you pull Ali Ennebati from? Either way DM never accepted a stolen belt. RJJ did. That says enough right there.
LOL! Stolen belts are common place in boxing. WBC, WBO, WBA, IBF all hvae stripped legit champions and given them to other fighters.

Winky has been stripped by the IBF for fighting Shane. Barrera was stripped for rematching Morales, the list goes on and on and on and on. Stop making it seem like what the WBC did in Roy's situation something unusual.

You think Wlad deserved to get his WBO belt back after getting KO'd by Sanders? he did nothing to really earn it back.

You're the king of contradictions and double standards.

Again, your argument to show Dariusz is the one who was wronged is being approached from the wrong angle. Leave sanctioning bodies out of your argument to justify your points. Pointing out their corruption is preaching to the choir. this has been going on since the 1970s.

Every fighter has been a victim of this corruption. and 99% of them have benefited from this corruption. Dariusz is no different. Joey DeGrandis as a legit title defense?

Give me a break

LOL! Stolen belts are common place in boxing. WBC, WBO, WBA, IBF all hvae stripped legit champions and given them to other fighters.

Winky has been stripped by the IBF for fighting Shane. Barrera was stripped for rematching Morales, the list goes on and on and on and on. Stop making it seem like what the WBC did in Roy's situation something unusual.

You think Wlad deserved to get his WBO belt back after getting KO'd by Sanders? he did nothing to really earn it back.

You're the king of contradictions and double standards.

Again, your argument to show Dariusz is the one who was wronged is being approached from the wrong angle. Leave sanctioning bodies out of your argument to justify your points. Pointing out their corruption is preaching to the choir. this has been going on since the 1970s.

Every fighter has been a victim of this corruption. and 99% of them have benefited from this corruption. Dariusz is no different. Joey DeGrandis as a legit title defense?

Give me a break

LOL LOL LOL those were under completely different circumstances. What does Wlad have to do with this. Wlad had to fight for the WBO belt, RJJ did not. IT WAS GIVEN TO HIM. Read up on it and get back to me before you try to sound like you know anything.

Roy Jones Haters piss me off

he fought so many top fighters

he just made em look like nothing
why ya'll hatin on this guy cuz of his last 2 fights
he just lost hunger, he didnt even take the johnson bout serious

It's probably been said before but It wouldn't matter who he fought in his prime. Jones was simply quicker, slicker, busier and too intelligent for anyone. Great fighters were made to look ordinary because the skill & talent gap between Jones and the rest of the field was massive.

Toney was made to look stupid & he beat hopkins with one hand.

He is an all-time great like it or not...There will never be another fighter like him for the next lifetime.

To answer the main topic, Ruiz is a top class fighter. End of discussion.

You are a *****

You know you hate Ruiz and your just being sarcastic

so please shut the **** up

You're just another keyboard boxer who supports any boxer who happens to be popular at the time. Ruiz has more heart than anyone in boxing today, was willing to fight anyone at any time, unlike all the rest of the cowards who wouldn't answer the challenge and try to unify the belts. Ruiz deserves respect even from a poser like yourself.

You know, it's amazing how a simple discussion can turn into a pissing contest. Some of you need to grow up and get a life.

he beat toney who was considered one of the best fighters and he was the last person to beat hopkins..beating toney and hopkins is pretty good dont u think

not only did he beat toney, but he beat another guy who beat toney twice, TWICE! (montell griffin)

roy jones is one of the greats.

not only did he beat toney, but he beat another guy who beat toney twice, TWICE! (montell griffin)

roy jones is one of the greats.

That's funny. I thought you just said RJJ beat Griffin twice.

That's funny. I thought you just said RJJ beat Griffin twice.

no hes saying that roy jones beat a man GRIFFIN who had beat toney twice....griffin beat toney twice

no hes saying that roy jones beat a man GRIFFIN who had beat toney twice....griffin beat toney twice

Which was why it was funny IMO.

Why are there so many haters posing as boxing fans these days? Roy Jones was the man until he lost twice in a row, most of the guys on the P4P list have more than one loss on their record...You **** are lame... :mad:

You know, it's amazing how a simple discussion can turn into a pissing contest. Some of you need to grow up and get a life.
So very true.

Jones has fought the best that were available and made them all look like silly children. He was simply worlds appart from anybody in his time.

no hes saying that roy jones beat a man GRIFFIN who had beat toney twice....griffin beat toney twice

true...but you can also say he beat griffin twice...**** the DQ...

its just funny how montell griffin beats one of the greats in james toney TWICE, and then roy jones makes griffin look like an amateur TWICE (**** the DQ), and all of a sudden griffin was a nobody and roy jones ducks all the good fighters.

true...but you can also say he beat griffin twice...**** the DQ...

its just funny how montell griffin beats one of the greats in james toney TWICE, and then roy jones makes griffin look like an amateur TWICE (**** the DQ), and all of a sudden griffin was a nobody and roy jones ducks all the good fighters.

How did RJJ make Griffin look like an amateur? Apparently you missed the fact that Griffin was winning at the time of the DQ not to mention the illegal punch that caused the KD to begin with.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=004966

two of the judges had jones ahead when he got DQ. montell was still in the fight but was about to get tko anyway. there was no illegal punch that put griffin down, i dont think you've really seen the fight if you think that.

two of the judges had jones ahead when he got DQ. montell was still in the fight but was about to get tko anyway. there was no illegal punch that put griffin down, i dont think you've really seen the fight if you think that.

Actually I've seen the fight a bunch of times, punching the back of the head is not legal. I don't think you've seen the fight.

when did jones punch him in the back of the head?
he hurt griffin and then griffin went down on his own, basicly just to take an 8 count to clear his head. your a serious hater if your saying there was a rabbit punch in that flurry,

two of the judges had jones ahead when he got DQ. montell was still in the fight but was about to get tko anyway. there was no illegal punch that put griffin down, i dont think you've really seen the fight if you think that.

jones was behind on two of the judges scorecards but had he not been dq'd, the knockdown would have been scored and jones would be ahead or even on the judges cards. the scoring was 76-75 jones and 77-75/76-75 griffin. the new scores would have been 86-83(jones),85-85,85-84(jones).

Actually I've seen the fight a bunch of times, punching the back of the head is not legal. I don't think you've seen the fight.
rabbit punches ARE LEGAL as long as each fighter is in an offensive position and nobody is clenching....Jones-Montell is one example, Jirov-Mesi is another

Actually I've seen the fight a bunch of times, punching the back of the head is not legal. I don't think you've seen the fight.


Again.....you with your numbers, your title belts, & your rules.
I think you read about boxing, but never watch it.
You are not changing the stereotype of Eastern Euros as robots. You're a robot.

rabbit punches ARE LEGAL as long as each fighter is in an offensive position and nobody is clenching....Jones-Montell is one example, Jirov-Mesi is another


"Rabbit punches" are not legal.
But, what Roy hit Griffin with was not a rabbit punch.
A rabbit punch is like a chop, & it's INTENTIONALLY delivered to the back of a guy's head.
If you throw a right hand & inadvertantly catch him off the back of his head, you have not committed a foul.

**** off, all of you.

James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, Antonio Tarver...

in this interview - http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34583 Jones Jr says that Jorge Castro was his toughest opponent.

Jones Jr also beat Thulane Malinga who was a tough opponent.

But he ducked many great fighters such as Benn, Eubank, McClellan, Rocchigiani and Michalczewski to name just a few.

Toney is the biggest name on Jones Jr's record, but Toney weighed 212lbs 6 weeks before the fight! He had to get down to 168! When Toney was younger, at 160 in the early 90's, he'd of schooled Jones Jr.
Toney was better at 168 than at 160.
He had trouble making the 160 lb limit....& it showed in subpar performances against Tiberi, R. Johnson, & Glenn Wolfe.

As for the guys you claimed he (Roy) ducked....
He ducked none of them.
He'd have slaughtered Benn & Eubank...made fools of Rocch & Michal.... & exposed McClellan for the homerun swinger he had eventually dwindled down to....

**** off, all of you.

Jones never ducked Eubank. Hell, in one of those interviews YOU posted up Eubank admits his disinterest in fighting Roy.

Jones didn't duck Dariusz. Dariusz wanted to stay in Germany his whole career and that's fine I guess, but don't expect Roy to go over there with that BS German judging.

Roy went to 175 for bigger guys and money. He didn't duck G-man or any of those guys.

Benn ruined G-man in one fight with illegal punches. Maybe they would have fought or maybe not, but there was no "ducking".

Toney's style is not good for beating Jones. Toney loses to Jones everytime they fight.

Jones never ducked Eubank. Hell, in one of those interviews YOU posted up Eubank admits his disinterest in fighting Roy.

Jones didn't duck Dariusz. Dariusz wanted to stay in Germany his whole career and that's fine I guess, but don't expect Roy to go over there with that BS German judging.

Roy went to 175 for bigger guys and money. He didn't duck G-man or any of those guys.

Benn ruined G-man in one fight with illegal punches. Maybe they would have fought or maybe not, but there was no "ducking".

Toney's style is not good for beating Jones. Toney loses to Jones everytime they fight.
good call, Roy wasn't about to do any international traveling after the Olympic disaster, and Dariusz' promoters were the most crooked in the sport, Roy definitely didn't duck those guys he just wasn't gonna hand over his belts to an inferior fighter with shady judges in their back-pockets.... I can't say Roy went to 175 for the $, he made more at 168 vs. Toney and Paz than he did for anybody at 175 other than Tarver

He didn't fight any of them, he fought bums at the time. No way would he of "slaughtered" Benn and Eubank, WTF?!
nigel benn was a joke, his biggest win was against the g-man and he was ready to have a stroke.... i give no credit to benn for this fight because he was losing on the cards in his home town :eek: and g-man to a knee to end the fight. and also thulane malinga tooks benss spot against jones as the two were supposed to fight but benn lost to malinga.

as for eubanks he went 4-5 over his last 9 fights from 95-98 imo thats not worthy of a title shot.

if roy jones enters the rings with either guy the fight is over early....jones would stop both these guys

Roy has been doing what floyde is doing right now, and it eventually would lead to his demise. True great fighters out there don't do that, they fight the best no excusses, like de la hoya or morales.

Roy has been doing what floyde is doing right now, and it eventually would lead to his demise. True great fighters out there don't do that, they fight the best no excusses, like de la hoya or morales.
you're ignorant...

here is a list of fighters that roy jones fought
virgill hill
james toney
bernard hopkins
mike mccallum
john ruiz
antonio tarver
vinny paz
eric lucas......at least 5 Hall of famers, all former champions in many different divisions

here is a list of fighters pbf has fought
jose luis castillo (twice)
diego corrales
angel manfredy
arturro gatti- upcoming...........pbf is young but alredy has fought great competition

chavez and hernandez cant be left off of floyd's list ;) floyd has fought the best in his previous two divisions

pbf has fought some good fighters true but never great, so p4p greatest as he puts it is bull, by the way how can you consider him great for taking on gatti hes got like 6 losses to mostly avrage fighters with the exception of de la hoya who DESTROYED him in five, and i like to emphesise the fact the pbf actually lost to castillo in their first meeting which more than proves hes not what you make him out to be.

chavez and hernandez cant be left off of floyd's list ;) floyd has fought the best in his previous two divisions

very true.....but whos list is it :rolleyes:


j/k :D

Toney was at the top of the sport when Jones beat him. You can't really argue against Toney being an A level opponent. Hopkins you can.

Virgil Hill was good when Jones beat him. Just shy of the top.

that was harsh fix, you know what i meant punk! :p

Toney was at the top of the sport when Jones beat him. You can't really argue against Toney being an A level opponent. Hopkins you can.

Virgil Hill was good when Jones beat him. Just shy of the top.
you cant argue hopkins either cause at the time he was ranked #2 contender behind jones and hopkins had more fights at the time they fought plus he is older too

that was harsh fix, you know what i meant punk! :p
lol but really whos list is it :rolleyes: :D

**** off, all of you.

Soory mate, but RJJ owns Eubank.

The German Darius was actually the WBA WBO IBF 175 champ and was stripped of the 2 American titles for BS.

Like it or not he did carry the legit title , Jones and the rest came from vacant titles all vacted from the german except one.


Saying that tho, Jones at peak would certainly beat the german, but IMO the whole saga stinks of "not getting it on"

Soory mate, but RJJ owns Eubank.
**** off, all of you.

**** off, all of you.

Benn was 22-0 with 22 KO's at one point, Jones Jr admitted that Benn puncher harder than him!

Benn KO'd Doug DeWitt (who went the distance with a Prime Hearns) in DeWitt's own backyard. Benn TKO'd Iran Barkley (who beat Hearns twice) in the 1st-round in Las Vegas. Benn KO'd Robbie Sims (who beat Duran) and it was the first time Sims had been KO'd in his career. Benn was a two-weight World champion who won his World titles away from home. Benn made 10 defences of his WBC title that he held for 5 years, and 5 years after he retired the title had changed hands 10 times. Benn would of murdered you in a fight you fool!

Eubank went 45-0, he was a two-weight World champion, he beat Benn, and Roy Jones admitted that Eubank would of caused him problems. Eubank would of gave Roy Jones fits and it would of certainly been Jones Jr's most difficult fight. That guy Eubank had a lot going for him.

Your nothing more than a Brit-hater, and a childish Roy Jones nut-hugger.


You will never walk alone

It never happened so you have no right to say that.

Was Montell Griffin better than Eubank? Nowhere near. Griffin gave Jones Jr problems..

Was Jorge Castro better than Eubank? Nowhere near. Castro gave Jones Jr problems..

I'll say what I like.
Triangle theories don't work in boxing. However, using that logic, Jones Jr owned Malinga. Eubank struggled against Malinga. Jones OWNS Eubank.
I saw enough of Eubank. To think that he beats Jones Jr is ridiculous.

NAB Hey, are you formerly from the HBO forum?

**** off, all of you.

Are you English by any chance?

You seem a tad obsessed with Chris Eubank.

It's taken me 7 years of posting on boxing to be called a nut hugger. Congratulations.

If Johnson and Tarver could KO Jones Jr then Eubank certainly could also - if he caught him. Eubank had a nasty right hand when he used it in full force (very rarely), and Eubank was a dangerous fighter with his back to the wall. Jones Jr respects him more than you so what does that tell you? - Your a childish nut-hugger.

Jones Jr beats the WORLD all on the same night, there is NO chance that he can fail! He IS God afterall! Looking good against the likes of Antoine Byrd rather than fighting a top 10 fighter (let alone a top 3 fighter) is what it's all about, man!

You do realise that Jones fought these guys as a 35 year old, at 175? And you are talking about Jones fighting Eubank as a 25 year old at 168?
Do you actually watch boxing? Probably not, so I suggest you go back & have a look at some of Jones' fights at 168.

**** off, all of you.

I've never much like Roy Jones, boxing's favourite protagonist. Many people will agree that to be considered a Legend, you have to beat great fighters. Muhammad Ali defeated Joe Frazier, George Foreman and Sonny Liston. Roy Jones didn’t have a Frazier to bring credibility to all his hype. Further, at his prime he avoided the only fighter who threatened his throne, that being Dariusz Michalczewski, who was the best "other" light heavyweight in the world at that time. The poor state of the light heavy division, combined with Roy's picking and choosing safe opponents rather than fighting worthier foe, robbed him of potential legend status.

Did he fight top ten guys, Yes. His Lengend will be his overall athletisism and multiple championships. But, he strangley spent most of his time at LHeavy without creating the legacy of other boxing Legends.

What are you talking about?? If Jones Jr's chin was weak at the end of his career, then it was weak earlier on also. That's why he picked his opponents carefully. He is the most over-rated fighter that has ever laced boxing gloves.

My god, you are a clown. The history of boxing is littered with fighters getting stopped late in their careers, having not been stopped earlier. Sometimes they can be just plain worn down, sometimes their reflexes are gone, sometime's they lose their ability to take a punch.

Jake Rodriguez went the full 10 rounds with Felix Trinidad, early in his career.
Jake Rodriguez gets knocked out cold, by one punch, by the 'great' Ramil Mercado, who was 9-8 at the time, and 8 pounds lighter than Jake.
Do you think Jake's chin was as good then as it was at the start of his career? Absurd.
In his words, he lost his ability to take a punch in the Tszyu fight (down 6 times), and lost his last 5 fights by KO.

Nobody could even LAND on Jones back in the mid 90's.

Do yourself a favour & watch some of his fights.

NAB Hey, are you formerly from the HBO forum?

Yeh, 'tis me.

**** off, all of you.

Benn was 22-0 with 22 KO's at one point, Jones Jr admitted that Benn punched harder than him!

Benn KO'd Doug DeWitt (who went the distance with a Prime Hearns) in DeWitt's own backyard. Benn TKO'd Iran Barkley (who beat Hearns twice) in the 1st-round in Las Vegas. Benn KO'd Robbie Sims (who beat Duran) and it was the first time Sims had been KO'd in his career. Benn was a two-weight World champion who won his World titles away from home. Benn made 10 defences of his WBC title that he held for 5 years, and 5 years after he retired the title had changed hands 10 times. Benn would of murdered you in a fight you fool!

Eubank went 45-0, he was a two-weight World champion, he beat Benn, and Roy Jones admitted that Eubank would of caused him problems. Eubank would of gave Roy Jones fits and it would of certainly been Jones Jr's most difficult fight. That guy Eubank had a lot going for him.

Your nothing more than a Brit-hater, and a childish Roy Jones nut-hugger.
its obvious your bias towards british fighters has clouded your judgement.

hoenstly doug dewitt come on now just cause he went the distance doesnt make him a superior fighter, robert allen went the distance with bernard hopkins does that make ali ennebati a good fighter or how about brain barbosa :rolleyes: couple of legends there.
iran barkley was a good fighter but he also lost 19 times, does that make all of those guys who beat him great? if so than i guess tosca pedritis must be a legend same goes for tony la rusa.

robbie sims did beat duran..... when duran had already been boxing proffessionaly for 18 years and beaten 6 other times. robbie simms beat a great fighter but in no way was a great fighter himself.

Benn would of murdered you in a fight you fool!
this makes no sence and doesnt prove any point. who said i was fighting benn any time soon. :confused:


chris eubank may have been a great fighter but at no time in roy jones reighn at supermiddle did eubank deserve a shot at the title. from 95-98 he lost 5 times out of 9, imo that aint worthy of nothing but journeymen status. right now iam looking at a list of fighters that eubank fought, and honestly it isnt that impressive sure he fought a couple of good fighters but he has got to be the most over rated fighter of the last 20 years.

also roy jones said he wouldnt travel overseas and eubank rarely left england and didnt step foot in north america...if he wanted a shot of the title why didnt go see jones, no champ goes to his challengers territory and fights them.you are not thinking and i proved your points invalid

you honestly need to watch some of jones' fights cause i know you havent. after seeing all three fighters figh,t no person could actually tell me decisively eubank or benn would have beaten jones.

you are the biggest UK nut-hugger this sight has seen

There's a reason why Jones Jr was ducking Michalczewski all along, and it was evident in Jones Jr's last couple of fights..

lol...wow...did he actually say that? Imagine the stupidity to make such a statement.

Talk about lack of perspecive. Thanks for all those Eubank articles but obviously you are an idiot or just a hater.

Next.

"The German" you call him.
He deserves better than that seeing as he was the best Light-Heavyweight of the past 10 years. This particular "German" had 11 straight KO's in World title fights.

There's a reason why Jones Jr was ducking Michalczewski all along, and it was evident in Jones Jr's last couple of fights..

Nobody had ever knocked Rocchigiani DOWN
but Dariusz Michalczewski knocked Rocchigiani OUT!

DM was a good fighter but its both fighters fault that the two didnt fight.

also what are you thoughts on sven ottke? a true legend right?

**** off, all of you.

**** off, all of you.

So if nobody could even LAND on Jones, then how could his chin become weakened?

Nobody could LAND on Jones because he picked his opponents carefully ;)

Tony Thornton was a durable fighter in the late 80's and early 90's when he took Steve Collins, Eubank and Toney the distance - but he'd been retired for three years before coming out of retirement to face Jones Jr with barely any preparation, then after the fight Thornton retired again. It was ridiculous really.

The top 5 168 fighters in 1995 were (Jones Jr), Benn, Eubank, Collins and Liles. Jones Jr didn't fight any of them.

Read my post again, you biased goose. I said that one of the reasons fighters can get KO'd late in their career is that their reflexes are gone.

from 85-95 he was UNDEFEATED in 45 fights, imo that is worthy of more than journeyman status.


Heard of Marty Jakubowski??

**** off, all of you.

Heard of Marty Jakubowski??
Never heard of him, why?

How can you call me biased when I'm telling the TRUTH about the myth of Roy Jones?

He didn't have a strong enough chin to mix it with the big boys, so he picked his opponents very carefully. Remember that he never was the WBC champion at 160 or 168, at that time it was McClellan and Benn. He never won the WBC title at 175 either, it was Michalczewski's title.
and Lennox Lewis was the WBC champ at heavyweight, not John ****ing Ruiz!

"He didn't have a strong enough to mix it with the big boys, so he picked his opponents very carefully. Remember that he never was the WBC champion at 160 or 168, at that time it was McClellan and Benn. He never won the WBC title at 175 either, it was Michalczewski's title"

What makes what you said nonsense is that Roy fought James Toney at 168.

If you were following boxing then, you'd remember that while at 168, James Toney had become the sport's #1 or #2 fighter in the lb4lb rankings.
Yet, Roy went up to 168 & fought him. He didn't fear Toney.....but he did Benn & Eubank ?

I meant to say that he didn't have a strong enough chin to mix it with the big boys.

If you were following boxing then, you'd remember that while at 168, James Toney had become the sport's #1 or #2 fighter in the lb4lb rankings.
No that's bull****. It was while at 160 that Toney became #2 ranked P4P behind Whitaker, he was never ranked #1 P4P. When Toney beat Nunn and McCallum at 160, he got in at #2 P4P.

Benn and Eubank were #1 and #2 at 168 before Toney moved up and got the #1 spot automatically (due to being #1 at 160 before moving up, and #2 P4P). But Toney was on the slide at 168 and only just about hanging in there, he was losing form and it was only a matter time before he had his big mouth shut. You'll remember that many people thought Benn and Eubank would beat him, but Don King forgot to put a clause in the contract for a draw in the Benn-Eubank unification clash (Toney was guaranteed to face the winner to prove his critics wrong). At 168, Benn and Eubank would of beat Toney. At 160, Toney would of probably beat them.

Let's be brutally honest here, Toney would of boxed Roy's head off at 160. In the early 90's when he was younger, Toney was the ****. But he was on the slide before he fought Jones Jr, he weighed 212lbs 6 weeks before the fight! Toney was weight-drained against Roy FFS. Jones Jr had only just moved up to 168 so he was comfortable at his new weight at the time. Eubank would of gave Roy fits due to his strange style. Also, Roy never fought anybody who came at him and Benn would of done just that.

By the way, Whitaker was #1 at the time and Gerald McClellan had got in at #2 P4P after beating Jackson in 90 seconds. Toney was #3 P4P at the time of fighting Jones Jr. When Jones Jr beat him, he went straight upto #1 P4P. But if McClellan had beaten Benn, I think McClellan would of got in ahead of Roy again P4P.

You are so wrong, it's unbelievable.

James Toney became the Ring magazine's #1 lb4lb fighter (over Whitaker) after he KO'd Prince Charles Williams. This after KO'ing Tim Littles & Iran Barkley.
Check the timelines, my friend......that was in '94...& Toney had beaten Barkley for the 168lb. crown in February of '93.

Toney was struggling at 160....wasn't being overly impressive in his last few fights there (McCallum II, Tiberi, Glenn Wolfe).

Also.....Gerald McClellan was NEVER ranked #2, lb4lb, by anyone

Now.....you're making **** up.

"When Toney beat Nunn and McCallum at 160, he got in at #2 P4P."

He beat/fought those guys in 1991.....Julio Cesar Chavez was still in his prime.
Whitaker & Chavez were the conscensus #1 & #2 fighters in the world then.

How can you call me biased when I'm telling the TRUTH about the myth of Roy Jones?

He didn't have a strong enough chin to mix it with the big boys, so he picked his opponents very carefully. Remember that he never was the WBC champion at 160 or 168, at that time it was McClellan and Benn. He never won the WBC title at 175 either, it was Michalczewski's title.

this is a pic of jones at lightheavy....wearing the wbc title belt
http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/media/box/2003/1108/photo/a_jones1_vi.jpg

you just making stuff up to help prove your point... roy jones was also awarded the first new wbc belt that had his picture on it...i could find the link if you want.






i've seen most of Jones Jr's fights, and most of Benn and Eubank's fights, and I can safely say that they'd of been Jones Jr's toughest fights without a doubt.

ok so you are saying they'd be tough fights for jones but jones would end up winning? if thats so why so much talk about benn and eubank.


also "the myth of roy jones" whats that about, look at all his accomplishments and tell me they are a myth. your so biased towards UK fighters because they could never do what jones did.... its pretty sad.

I don't even know where to start.

1) Johnsosn DOES deserve all the credit in the world for his work ethic, but don't even try to convince me that he had the skills of an elite fighter. Cuz he don't. Why did he beat Jones? Because he worked a hell of a lot harder than RJJ that's it.

2) I don't even know where you guys get this boxing lesson crap. There was NO BOXING LESSON. You can't ****ing teach RJJ a boxing lesson. He just threw a hell of a lot more than RJJ SIMPLE! RJJ's punches we're precise and accurate. Johnson just swarmed RJJ with punches. Yeah he boxed smart, yeah he excecuted his plan well, but that's it!

3) Every ****ing boxer has SOME kind of power. He didn't KO RJJ cuz of his power. The punch hit the temple, that's the worst place you can get hit in the head. Softest part of yer skull.

4) The old RJJ would have moved and not stay in one ****ing place. He was lazy and ****y in this fight. And he got beat. His fault.

If you're gonna tell me that RJJ's career was made fighting buddies than can you name me another fighter that has had more accomplishments in fighting quality opponents in this era?
Listen man, to give Johnson credit for what he did is one thing, but to completely disregard RJJ's accomplishment's throughout his career is just stupid. Anyway, where were the threads questioning RJJ's success before his 2 KO losses?Well Put!

RJJ is an epitome of an ultimate fighter.
In boxing sooner or later everyone gets caught and you cannot take away his accomplishments.

How can you call me biased when I'm telling the TRUTH about the myth of Roy Jones?

He didn't have a strong enough chin to mix it with the big boys, so he picked his opponents very carefully. Remember that he never was the WBC champion at 160 or 168, at that time it was McClellan and Benn. He never won the WBC title at 175 either, it was Michalczewski's title.

Let's see. 88 posts, nearly every single one praising Chris Eubank.

No, you're not biased.

WBC was Michalczewski's? You sure about that?

He didn't have a strong enough chin to mix it with the big boys, so he picked his opponents very carefully.

It wouldn't matter. Jones' opponents back then were hitting fresh air. Not his chin.

James Toney

hopkins, remember? dip****

James Toney.

Heard of Marty Jakubowski??

Just ignorance and hatery to compare Jones to Marty Jakubowski.

Jakubowski was a local club fighter, Jones was a world class fighter. obvious huge difference. next I guess you'll throw down Butterbean's name. :rolleyes:

And Dr. Freecloud??? Who has Jones ever fought you ask? I read the first post of this topic. OMG, you are an idiot. That's the first boxing topic I remember reading of you. James Toney is all you ever need to know. I guess Toney wasn't a top class fighter somehow.

i'm having trouble looking at jones career and finding some true top class fighters that jones faced. jones faced a man that was actually a few days younger than him saturday night and got knocked out. actually he received a boxing lesson. johnson was also fighting his 52nd fight just like jones. he came ont the pro scene 4 years after jones. has been ko'ed like jones although that was in 97. for some reason you people don't want to give the fellow any credit for beating jones. i mean really, excuses like jones is old and slower than he used to be. that this guy really wasn't that fast. when i keep watching this fight over and over i think that johnson was pretty quik. and it wasn't just speed it was they way he threw his punches. jones has always been able to back people off of him with a quik 1-2 but johnson responded with a 3-4 in most cases. jones was never able to back johnson up at all. johnson faught a very smart match. he came out from the opening bell and pressured jones til the bell rang. jones didn't know how to deal with johnsons style because he couldn't do a quick jab and move to the left like usual because johnson kept the pressure no matter what. jones would have never been able to deal with the fighter he faced on saturday night. granted jones had skill and talent against lesser opponents. the first round took alot out of jones. being hit from beginning to end of round one takes alot out of you. yeah sure this guy johnson only has 28 ko's on his record. but one of those is jones. you have to have some kind of power to ko 28 people. saying that he doesn't have power when in facing 52 fighters he has ko'ed more than half of them is like saying jones has faught quality opponents throughout his career. just so you know only 12 of his ko's were actual ktfo knock outs. same as jones. ok so i know that a few of the guys jones faced were B+ or close to A class. but for me his career was full of no-ones.

you said name one...the second someone did, you were quick to discredit and ramble on...what more do you want?

And he basically says that the Glen Johnson that beat Jones would beat a prime Roy Jones.

To answer your question mook, stating who has more accomplishements than Roy. I personally think hands down Oscar de la hoya is one of them hands down. If you look at his boxing recored and compared to Roy you will see he fought more well-known boxer such as Shane Mosley, Chaves, Vargas, Trindad, Quartey just to name a few. This is just my opinion!

I don't even know where to start.

1) Johnsosn DOES deserve all the credit in the world for his work ethic, but don't even try to convince me that he had the skills of an elite fighter. Cuz he don't. Why did he beat Jones? Because he worked a hell of a lot harder than RJJ that's it.

2) I don't even know where you guys get this boxing lesson crap. There was NO BOXING LESSON. You can't ****ing teach RJJ a boxing lesson. He just threw a hell of a lot more than RJJ SIMPLE! RJJ's punches we're precise and accurate. Johnson just swarmed RJJ with punches. Yeah he boxed smart, yeah he excecuted his plan well, but that's it!

3) Every ****ing boxer has SOME kind of power. He didn't KO RJJ cuz of his power. The punch hit the temple, that's the worst place you can get hit in the head. Softest part of yer skull.

4) The old RJJ would have moved and not stay in one ****ing place. He was lazy and ****y in this fight. And he got beat. His fault.

If you're gonna tell me that RJJ's career was made fighting buddies than can you name me another fighter that has had more accomplishments in fighting quality opponents in this era?
Listen man, to give Johnson credit for what he did is one thing, but to completely disregard RJJ's accomplishment's throughout his career is just stupid. Anyway, where were the threads questioning RJJ's success before his 2 KO losses?

i agree about roy being lazy and ****y during the johnson fight.. he didnt look the least bit worried like he did in tarver 3. still he wasnt throwing punches which is a sign of roy being worried in it's self

Where are all these Jones hate threads comming from?? The man was a great boxer.

IMO the only two that i think are great fighters he beat are 1) james toney, the man was knocking everybody out att he time with relative ease. he was in shape and at his best. when you compare him now. 2) benard hopkins, i got to say that it was the opposite with benard. i feel benard is a fighter that got better with age , like lennox lewis. it is still a win against a good champion fighter at the time. both of these fighters are definte hall of famers. some of other guys are pretty much guys that will make the hall of fame. but nobody i consider great on the list of fighters he beat convincely. tarver is his own best fan. i really wish he wouldve fought roy around the time roy fought toney and hopkins.

.................. :rolleyes: if you know boxing then you know Jones is an all time great ...thats all there is to it... deal with it

This thread was made two years ago and it's still alive. That's impressive.

i'm having trouble looking at jones career and finding some true top class fighters that jones faced. jones faced a man that was actually a few days younger than him saturday night and got knocked out. actually he received a boxing lesson. johnson was also fighting his 52nd fight just like jones. he came ont the pro scene 4 years after jones. has been ko'ed like jones although that was in 97. for some reason you people don't want to give the fellow any credit for beating jones. i mean really, excuses like jones is old and slower than he used to be. that this guy really wasn't that fast. when i keep watching this fight over and over i think that johnson was pretty quik. and it wasn't just speed it was they way he threw his punches. jones has always been able to back people off of him with a quik 1-2 but johnson responded with a 3-4 in most cases. jones was never able to back johnson up at all. johnson faught a very smart match. he came out from the opening bell and pressured jones til the bell rang. jones didn't know how to deal with johnsons style because he couldn't do a quick jab and move to the left like usual because johnson kept the pressure no matter what. jones would have never been able to deal with the fighter he faced on saturday night. granted jones had skill and talent against lesser opponents. the first round took alot out of jones. being hit from beginning to end of round one takes alot out of you. yeah sure this guy johnson only has 28 ko's on his record. but one of those is jones. you have to have some kind of power to ko 28 people. saying that he doesn't have power when in facing 52 fighters he has ko'ed more than half of them is like saying jones has faught quality opponents throughout his career. just so you know only 12 of his ko's were actual ktfo knock outs. same as jones. ok so i know that a few of the guys jones faced were B+ or close to A class. but for me his career was full of no-ones.

:confused: This is a joke, right. Johnson was a B+ fighter...at best, and caught the post Ruiz Jones, who was past his best, to say the least. The man's 34...and yes, I know Johson's the same age; but fighters age differently.


Okay...first class opp: James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, Reggie Johnson, Montell Griffin, Virgil Hill, Antonio Tarver.....ya need more?